politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The shadow cabinet reshuffle is becoming interesting
Comments
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John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?0
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Nick Palmer.
Shakes head.0 -
Do you believe that any individual on the Hard Left has ever demonstrated such a basic sense of self-awareness?SeanT said:Judging by this calamitous and hilarious Shadow Cabinet formation, the point is: politics sometimes doesn't need rules or regimens. You can just be so horrifically bad at your job that you know you have to quit, and there it is, as all your important colleagues despise you.
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Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.
If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.TheScreamingEagles said:
Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.tyson said:RE; the great Labour re-shuffle
This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Not one of us could have predicted any of this.0 -
Lol. No sense of humour bypass here.EPG said:
Er everyone, it's a joke. Ironic if PB Tories need humour transplant on funniest day everPlato_Says said:James Cook
@JamesLiamCook
James Liam Cook announced as new Shadow Defence Secretary
Who is he?0 -
What's the odds of one of them not making it due to ill health? 9 collective years between them at 65+ basically I would say about a 20-25% chance of one of them having a heart attack/stroke other dehabilitating illness rendering them unable to continue. Maybe slightly less as they are privileged, but who knows...MikeL said:Note that John McDonnell is 64. Corbyn is 66.
So 69 and 71 respectively in 2020.0 -
Yes, but more importantly, is John McDonnell running Jeremy Corbyn?fitalass said:Twitter
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.0 -
For HYUFD on Sanders campaigning in SC:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cornel-west-joins-bernie-sanders-on-the-campaign-trail-in-south-carolina/2015/09/12/bc9b4236-58c2-11e5-b8c9-944725fcd3b9_story.html
Not sure Cornel West is the best intro for Bernie into the black community, but it seems to be drawing the crowds. I think the comments of Tomiko at the end of the article should have the Hillary crowd truly sweating.0 -
Corbyn looks a bit out of his depth already.0
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Shame on me for forgetting the good Dr Fox.tyson said:Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.
If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.TheScreamingEagles said:
Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.tyson said:RE; the great Labour re-shuffle
This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Not one of us could have predicted any of this.
I shall do a thread on AV as penance.0 -
I take it John McDonnell has some unsavoury baggage then…?fitalass said:Twitter
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.0 -
Yep, it will be intetesting to get Nick's views on why today has been such a goid day for JC. He's so polite and unspun, doncha know. McDonnell - a moderate, unifying voice; a masterstroke.SeanT said:Don't understand why Nick Palmer isn't on here to explain how well this is all going.
*mystified*
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He said he would resign as an MP if Labour didn't back Trident Renewal. And now rumour is he's in the Shadow Cabinet?Speedy said:
He might be shadow defence secretary or work and pensions.alex. said:John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?
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Actually that does make sense. His win is based on an entirely new economic policy - namely Anti-austerity. Like it or loathe it, that is what the Party wants.MonikerDiCanio said:
That's leadership. Corbyn hasn't bowed to the wets.SeanT said:
Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.DavidL said:
It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.Dair said:
This is actually the most WTF moment so far.oxfordsimon said:
The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Splendid!
I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
What everyone was expecting was that after winning Corbyn will like every other politician compromise and make gestures towards the City.
But Corbyn is not your normal politician. Expect him to attack the banks which the Labour leadership were hitherto scared to criticise.
Keeping up the EU membership up his sleeve also helps. Why does he have to show his cards now ? Thatcher made anti-Europe noises but signed every treaty.0 -
This Corbyn business tonight is a series of acts of gross political incompetence.
The last one I can remember like this was in Ireland in 2010, when the government tried to renew its image by getting about forty per cent of the ministers to resign, but then realised it didn't have a parliamentary majority to replace them, so it soldiered on and everyone doubled up on portfolios.0 -
Corbyn seems to have forgotten defence.. symbolic0
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Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.0 -
I think Plato has fallen for a jokesurbiton said:
Isn't he a journalist ?Plato_Says said:James Cook
@JamesLiamCook
James Liam Cook announced as new Shadow Defence Secretary
Who is he?0 -
0
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So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)
Defence
DWP
Transport
Leader of the House
Energy and Climate Change
Wales
any others?0 -
I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.
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Why not?alex. said:
He said he would resign as an MP if Labour didn't back Trident Renewal. And now rumour is he's in the Shadow Cabinet?Speedy said:
He might be shadow defence secretary or work and pensions.alex. said:John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?
I thought Blairism was all about power as an end in itself.0 -
Are you coming round to the InstaCoup™?david_herdson said:
There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.SeanT said:
Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.DavidL said:
It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.Dair said:
This is actually the most WTF moment so far.oxfordsimon said:
The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Splendid!
I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
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Blinking heck- waiting for the Federer match is exhausting, and I'm an hour ahead. Poor John Bercow is going to be knackered tomorrow- he's going to let Corbyn do anything he likes.
Is anyone else staying up to see the very divine Roger?0 -
No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).GIN1138 said:
Are we getting the first rumblings of:bigjohnowls said:The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.
Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.
Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.
PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.
I am not sure which way this will go.
Time will tell.
JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?0 -
kle4 said:
Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
"Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.
“Yes,” said Mr Cameron.
The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html0 -
Surbiton's been pushing this nonsense all day, and has continually ignored the reality that there is nothing the Prime Minister would like more than abolishing PMQs, or as a compromise, not having the LOTO asking him anything!HurstLlama said:
I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.0 -
After today they know they'll have to wait less time for him to go than they dared to dream of yesterday.david_herdson said:
There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.SeanT said:
Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.DavidL said:
It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.Dair said:
This is actually the most WTF moment so far.oxfordsimon said:
The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Splendid!
I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
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Just had that conversation with Fitaloon as Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet was being unveiled tonight. Seriously, the Labour Party has moved beyond a 'The Thick of It' episode and into the Twilight Zone of politics.david_herdson said:
There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.SeanT said:
Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.DavidL said:
It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.Dair said:
This is actually the most WTF moment so far.oxfordsimon said:
The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Splendid!
I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.0 -
alex. said:
Surbiton's been pushing this nonsense all day, and has continually ignored the reality that there is nothing the Prime Minister would like more than abolishing PMQs, or as a compromise, not having the LOTO asking him anything! And that it is not what Corbyn is proposing anyway.HurstLlama said:
I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.0 -
DfiD and Defraalex. said:
So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)
Defence
DWP
Transport
Leader of the House
Energy and Climate Change
Wales
any others?0 -
Hypothetically.Richard_Nabavi said:
My thoughts exactly.david_herdson said:There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.
This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.
As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.
Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.0 -
The Wikipedia page keeps changing.
Woodcock has gone from the page now;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)0 -
I am sure Mr Palmer will say, 'when you come to a fork in the road take it.'SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it will be intetesting to get Nick's views on why today has been such a goid day for JC. He's so polite and unspun, doncha know. McDonnell - a moderate, unifying voice; a masterstroke.SeanT said:Don't understand why Nick Palmer isn't on here to explain how well this is all going.
*mystified*0 -
Was that before or after Cameron raised VAT ?JonathanD said:kle4 said:
Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
"Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.
“Yes,” said Mr Cameron.
The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html0 -
Where to begin.....SimonStClare said:
I take it John McDonnell has some unsavoury baggage then…?fitalass said:Twitter
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.0 -
We've had DfID. Also there might be Cabinet office?Plato_Says said:DfiD and Defra
alex. said:So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)
Defence
DWP
Transport
Leader of the House
Energy and Climate Change
Wales
any others?0 -
I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.oxfordsimon said:
The Wikipedia page keeps changing.
Woodcock has gone from the page now;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)0 -
It has been an entertaining year for betting, and a lucrative one too for yours truly!tyson said:Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.
If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.TheScreamingEagles said:
Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.tyson said:RE; the great Labour re-shuffle
This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Not one of us could have predicted any of this.
What happens next? That Labour party conference will be very entertaining. Are 3 quidder Kendallites welcome? Or will we all be purged by then?
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Depends how you view it. Some of it is on public record, some of it not.SimonStClare said:
I take it John McDonnell has some unsavoury baggage then…?fitalass said:Twitter
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.
It all brings to mind Alan Beasdale's GBH.....0 -
I think a lot of rumours might be being fuelled by wind-ups...AndyJS said:I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.
oxfordsimon said:The Wikipedia page keeps changing.
Woodcock has gone from the page now;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)0 -
So, you suggest, 60% of the Party's voices [ whether correct or not ] should be ignored ? Maybe , professional politicians can't get their head round it.david_herdson said:
There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.SeanT said:
Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.DavidL said:
It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.Dair said:
This is actually the most WTF moment so far.oxfordsimon said:
The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Splendid!
I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
Who will remember in two years Chuka Umunna, Mary Creagh, Liz Kendall etc. ? Even others from the Labour Right will fill their space .0 -
I'm going to defend Corbyn here.
He's been given an overwhelming mandate. He is entitled to do things his way and appoint whoever he wants.
It's democracy in action0 -
If the Blairites were to form a new party they would forever get rid of the union link which has always provided the infrastructure for the hard Left to come back.0
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The latest I hear is that Defence and Work & Pensions is between Woodcock and Gloria de Piero.AndyJS said:I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.
oxfordsimon said:The Wikipedia page keeps changing.
Woodcock has gone from the page now;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)0 -
Any odds or thoughts on when the first resignation from these new appointments will be? A week?
So kind of Burnam to say that Corbyn would be a 'disaster' and thus write the first question every journalist will ask him as long as he's in the shadow cabinet.0 -
Long time afterSpeedy said:
Was that before or after Cameron raised VAT ?JonathanD said:kle4 said:
Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
"Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.
“Yes,” said Mr Cameron.
The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html0 -
Cameron has just re-defined the entire meaning of a lucky general.0
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Who would get the Short Money?MyBurningEars said:
Hypothetically.Richard_Nabavi said:
My thoughts exactly.david_herdson said:There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.
This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.
As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.
Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.0 -
Was that an official PBC do? That would have been quite the one to attend, what with two of you turning up from abroad. Sounds like that would have been very good, if not prescient, conversation.TheScreamingEagles said:
Shame on me for forgetting the good Dr Fox.tyson said:Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.
If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.TheScreamingEagles said:
Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.tyson said:RE; the great Labour re-shuffle
This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.TheScreamingEagles said:@faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary
Not one of us could have predicted any of this.
I shall do a thread on AV as penance.0 -
It was last March.Speedy said:
Was that before or after Cameron raised VAT ?JonathanD said:kle4 said:
Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
"Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.
“Yes,” said Mr Cameron.
The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html0 -
John McDonnell grabs mace and swings it at Geoff Hoon http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81fc8_rebel-mp-john-mcdonnell-grabs-mace_news0
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This has been the most exciting weekend in British politics since the election that never was in 2007.
Good night all. You've been a wonderful audience.0 -
Time he and George started bulk-buying lottery tickets.Moses_ said:Cameron has just re-defined the entire meaning of a lucky general.
0 -
Brilliant! They've been locked in!
https://twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/643194160384749569
Can they get out through a secret passage via Downing Street?0 -
To be fair to the Jezlamists, the BBC IS biased against them. They want centre-left governance but would prefer the centre-right to the hard left. They want mass immigration, the EU and multiculturalism, but not at the expense of their salaries and private schools.0
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@DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
Depressing same old bullshit then.0 -
Ed was crap and will never be Prime Minister. Jeremy will never be prime minister.
I don't think Labour will ever pick as crap a leader as Ed Miliband. Jeremy is not crap. He's not Ed, he's not IDS or Hague, or Gordon Brown- a rogues gallery of crappy leaders. Jeremy is just unelectable. A subtle but important difference.
Huzzah- the tennis is about to startSunil_Prasannan said:
No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).GIN1138 said:
Are we getting the first rumblings of:bigjohnowls said:The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.
Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.
Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.
PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.
I am not sure which way this will go.
Time will tell.
JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?0 -
He's entitled to do things his way, no question - but it might be prudent to go easy with his own party relations a little.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm going to defend Corbyn here.
He's been given an overwhelming mandate. He is entitled to do things his way and appoint whoever he wants.
It's democracy in action
Then again, perhaps not. Strike while the iron is hot and all that, and he cannot be authentic with the public and not be radical in all things that he is able.
0 -
Damn missed DifD - who's that?alex. said:
We've had DfID. Also there might be Cabinet office?Plato_Says said:DfiD and Defra
alex. said:So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)
Defence
DWP
Transport
Leader of the House
Energy and Climate Change
Wales
any others?0 -
Yes, I'll swear there are more TBA each time I look...AndyJS said:I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.
oxfordsimon said:The Wikipedia page keeps changing.
Woodcock has gone from the page now;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)0 -
Who got DoSac?0
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They will get it as they will be HMLO. Farron's coach car can be added to it. Of course, the left vote will be split until 2030.alex. said:Plato_Says said:DfiD and Defra
alex. said:So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)
Defence
DWP
Transport
Leader of the House
Energy and Climate Change
Wales
any others?
Who would get the Short Money?MyBurningEars said:
Hypothetically.Richard_Nabavi said:
My thoughts exactly.david_herdson said:There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.
This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.
As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.
Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.0 -
Labour would but would get less (due to fewer MPs)alex. said:
Who would get the Short Money?MyBurningEars said:
Hypothetically.
This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.
As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.
Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.
There is a threshold which New Democracy would not reach (1 FPTP seat/x% of the Vote).0 -
I believe he will criticize Corbyn even if he puts a woman as shadow defence secretary.TheScreamingEagles said:@DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
Depressing same old bullshit then.0 -
Both, proportionally I believe.alex. said:
Who would get the Short Money?MyBurningEars said:
Hypothetically.Richard_Nabavi said:
My thoughts exactly.david_herdson said:There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.
This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.
As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.
Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.0 -
Women and Equalities??Plato_Says said:DfiD and Defra
alex. said:So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)
Defence
DWP
Transport
Leader of the House
Energy and Climate Change
Wales
any others?
Wales?
Leader of the Commons?
All the junior whips?
All the junior ministers??
oh... shadow attorney general?0 -
It might actually be the case that Corbyn is going to appoint a shadow Defence Secretary who is strongly in favour of Trident Renewal. We're moving on from parallel realities.0
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Isn't it a bit early to be defining the crapness of Jezza?tyson said:Ed was crap and will never be Prime Minister. Jeremy will never be prime minister.
I don't think Labour will ever pick as crap a leader as Ed Miliband. Jeremy is not crap. He's not Ed, he's not IDS or Hague, or Gordon Brown- a rogues gallery of crappy leaders. Jeremy is just unelectable. A subtle but important difference.
Huzzah- the tennis is about to startSunil_Prasannan said:
No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).GIN1138 said:
Are we getting the first rumblings of:bigjohnowls said:The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.
Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.
Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.
PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.
I am not sure which way this will go.
Time will tell.
JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?0 -
How many Londoners are in that Shadow Cabinet?0
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We shouldn't forget that Michael Heseltine did something similar on 27th May 1976:Plato_Says said:John McDonnell grabs mace and swings it at Geoff Hoon http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81fc8_rebel-mp-john-mcdonnell-grabs-mace_news
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_grave_disorder_in_the_British_House_of_Commons0 -
The first of Two Hats
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away0 -
But he swung it at the opposition, not his own side.AndyJS said:
We shouldn't forget that Michael Heseltine did something similar on 27th May 1976:Plato_Says said:John McDonnell grabs mace and swings it at Geoff Hoon http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81fc8_rebel-mp-john-mcdonnell-grabs-mace_news
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_grave_disorder_in_the_British_House_of_Commons0 -
Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.Plato_Says said:The first of Two Hats
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away0 -
Gaby Hinsliff @gabyhinsliff
Corbyn gives 5 out of 5 top jobs to men, then. Maybe there'll be a nice women-only section in shad cab, where ladies can feel safe at night?0 -
Tweet of the Day?
Helen Lewis
@helenlewis
Oh dear. Just realised Jeremy Corbyn has married more women than he's appointed to great offices of state. Good night.0 -
I thought deputy leader was already one.alex. said:
Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.Plato_Says said:The first of Two Hats
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away0 -
edit0
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Representative though isn't it? Labour is basically a London party now.Y0kel said:How many Londoners are in that Shadow Cabinet?
0 -
Not his fault the leading ladies flounced out of the ShadCab!TheScreamingEagles said:@DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
Depressing same old bullshit then.0 -
Good. So let's abolish this farce !alex. said:
Surbiton's been pushing this nonsense all day, and has continually ignored the reality that there is nothing the Prime Minister would like more than abolishing PMQs, or as a compromise, not having the LOTO asking him anything!HurstLlama said:
I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.surbiton said:
He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.RobD said:After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?
Cam must be pinching himself.
He should ask:
1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.
2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.
The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.
The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.
The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.0 -
Party job. Harriet Harman had a Parliamentary job (several i think)Speedy said:
I thought deputy leader was already one.alex. said:
Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.Plato_Says said:The first of Two Hats
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away0 -
But he won't be standing in for Jezza at PMQs? - that's odd if trueSpeedy said:
I thought deputy leader was already one.alex. said:
Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.Plato_Says said:The first of Two Hats
Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away0 -
0
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Of course not- it's not too early. Jez is not crap- he's actually quite smooth and polished. Crapness is something you either have or don't- you're born with it.. Ed had it in spades, and Jez doesn't.GIN1138 said:
Isn't it a bit early to be defining the crapness of Jezza?tyson said:Ed was crap and will never be Prime Minister. Jeremy will never be prime minister.
I don't think Labour will ever pick as crap a leader as Ed Miliband. Jeremy is not crap. He's not Ed, he's not IDS or Hague, or Gordon Brown- a rogues gallery of crappy leaders. Jeremy is just unelectable. A subtle but important difference.
Huzzah- the tennis is about to startSunil_Prasannan said:
No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).GIN1138 said:
Are we getting the first rumblings of:bigjohnowls said:The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.
Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.
Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.
PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.
I am not sure which way this will go.
Time will tell.
JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?0 -
To all my defence, Jack is a male name.AndyJS said:The backlash begins:
https://twitter.com/DrJackMonroe/status/643195043445125120?lang=en-gb
I really didn't knew she was a woman.0 -
Thornberry will be there. Also Eagle. But Cooper threw the toys out of the pram. Will Harriet take a job or given one ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not his fault the leading ladies flounced out of the ShadCab!TheScreamingEagles said:@DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
Depressing same old bullshit then.0 -
It gets worse... better... more surreal. Zoe Ball tipped to join Top Gear. Bad appointment by Jezza.0
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TSE can you add some more tweets, I've been sharing at the prediction that this would be over at 10pm for too long. I've got work today.0
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Just have to say how amazing PB as a site and is a fabulous source of information. Well done to everyone responsible and now time to log off as all my mobiles and tablets have run out of battery power. Best wishes to all0
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I'm off - I won't be up for Defence
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What's Thornberry's job?surbiton said:
Thornberry will be there. Also Eagle. But Cooper threw the toys out of the pram. Will Harriet take a job or given one ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not his fault the leading ladies flounced out of the ShadCab!TheScreamingEagles said:@DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
Depressing same old bullshit then.0 -
And forever get rid of the £££££££.JEO said:If the Blairites were to form a new party they would forever get rid of the union link which has always provided the infrastructure for the hard Left to come back.
That's why it won't happen, instead they will wait out Corbyn even if it takes five years. There are no City hedgies waiting to back Labour - even New Labour. Money is power and the unions are the main source apart from people with lots of it.0 -
This is probably not a fresh observation, but I liked a description of Marxism on, yes, the telegraph, as the people being the justification for everything but whose opinions can safely be ignored. Always seemed to be the case with extreme ideologies, convinced the people agree with them, but never actually show it electorally.
Good night all. Corbyn better not disappoint us by knuckling down and doing a boring job from now on.0 -
They shouldn't be ignored. They should be made to leave.surbiton said:So, you suggest, 60% of the Party's voices [ whether correct or not ] should be ignored ? Maybe , professional politicians can't get their head round it.
0
