politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Sadiq could be quite hard for Zac or any other Tory to
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The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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It's a fair question. The problem, of course, is that they wanted those people to vote, and so engage them with the Labour party, but didn't want them to do any damage, which they are by voting for Corbyn, so such people believe. If the MPs had screened the candidates like they were supposed to, they wouldn't have had the option to cause damage in that way.pinkrose said:If Labour didn't want people to vote who are not full members of the party then why introduce this system?
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My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?pinkrose said:
The current refugee crisis calls for leadership not pandering to the Islamophobic elements of the electorate. I'm ashamed of how Cameron has turned his back on desperate people especially when he is keen to take military action here there and everywhere without a second thought to the consequences.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good luck with selling that to the electoratepinkrose said:What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?
Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.0 -
Especially so from a party that claims to be against -isms (not that I believe them).Morris_Dancer said:Good evening, everyone.
Depressing reading. Identity politics is vile.0 -
No no no. You really don't get what's happening in Labour and elsewhere do you?MaxPB said:
Shows how well you know London. Primrose Hill is luvvie central, full of the Guardian reading chattering classes.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Read this article and the way he savages the Primrose Hill Labour luvvies http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/gregor-cubie/jeremy-corbyn_b_8096364.html
They're goners. Down the pan. Finished. And forever now encapsulated by the EdStone.
Labour has booted out the dross of faux-socialism and decided to get real. And I believe it is catching a very powerful mood in the country. It may not be the majority view, that remains to be seen, but it's a huge political shift happening.0 -
Dair said:
I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.HYUFD said:Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb
Yep. He's real. And that's why he is going to be a breath of fresh air and why people who are used to plastic-wrap politics are scratching their heads wondering what the hell's going on.0 -
Yes because filling Northern English towns with migrant communities has SUCH a good record in Rochdale and Bradford and Leicester et al.pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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It's an occupational hazard that all senior politicians have to put up with. Corbyn seems to think that he can carry on as before. The rules have changed for him and the penny hasn't dropped yet.Dair said:
I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.HYUFD said:Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb0 -
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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Given that there is no chance of a Labour success in Scotland and even Wales might start to look problematic given the appalling performance there, there is a real chance that Kahn will be the most senior elected Labour politician in the country some time next year.
Hahahahah.0 -
Corbyn will get his highest number of votes from North LondonEstobar said:
No no no. You really don't get what's happening in Labour and elsewhere do you?MaxPB said:
Shows how well you know London. Primrose Hill is luvvie central, full of the Guardian reading chattering classes.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Read this article and the way he savages the Primrose Hill Labour luvvies http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/gregor-cubie/jeremy-corbyn_b_8096364.html
They're goners. Down the pan. Finished. And forever now encapsulated by the EdStone.
Labour has booted out the dross of faux-socialism and decided to get real. And I believe it is catching a very powerful mood in the country. It may not be the majority view, that remains to be seen, but it's a huge political shift happening.0 -
The plastic wrap developed for a reason, because the demands of the public forced it on them as the only thing that works. Perhaps we are finally getting to the point where it won't any longer, but despite liking people who are a breath of fresh air, up to now the plastic wrapped still win (The SNP are not as transformative in style as they might like to think, though their cause and energy sets them apart instead as why they won)Estobar said:Dair said:
I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.HYUFD said:Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb
Yep. He's real. And that's why he is going to be a breath of fresh air and why people who are used to plastic-wrap politics are scratching their heads wondering what the hell's going on.0 -
Yep.HYUFD said:
In the Highlands and Borders and Edinburgh maybe, Glasgow Corbyn rallies were packed out several times overDair said:
Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.
SeanT may like to think he will be toxic (a word which has lost its toxicity) but that's to see the world through a Primrose tinted pair of specs.
Let's see. It's going to be fun.0 -
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. Cash was IDS' Attorney Generalglw said:
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.HYUFD said:Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.0 -
David Cameron is not only showing leadership but as this plays out it will be the model for the future. It is the only way to prevent untold suffering caused by an impossible promise by Merkel who is already seeing growing disquiet amongst her colleaguespinkrose said:
The current refugee crisis calls for leadership not pandering to the Islamophobic elements of the electorate. I'm ashamed of how Cameron has turned his back on desperate people especially when he is keen to take military action here there and everywhere without a second thought to the consequences.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good luck with selling that to the electoratepinkrose said:What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?
Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.0 -
welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
You're not reading what I've saying. All I was defending was Corbyn in this specific incident.Estobar said:Dair said:
I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.HYUFD said:Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb
Yep. He's real. And that's why he is going to be a breath of fresh air and why people who are used to plastic-wrap politics are scratching their heads wondering what the hell's going on.
Outside of that, SeanT is quite right, he is a ticking time bomb with anger problems and will be an utter car crash as Labour leader.
It will be very entertaining.0 -
It may be, and we'll have to see if Corbyn is as bad as feared, that he could be far worse even while attracting rallies like he has. Getting rallies doesn't do much good if you do just as much or more damage to the party, you just have more people confused at the end as they were sure their guy was super popular, and at that point they are probably a hindrance as they may go into a state of denial, whereas someone who never got the rallies and was also clearly crap won't have any illusions about how they actually did ok but were unlucky or something.HYUFD said:
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. lglw said:
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.HYUFD said:Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.0 -
You never know: it might prevent another Glasgow clean sweep.Dair said:
Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.0 -
Hotel question: I haven't stayed in a hotel for ages and was wondering whether room number 1 would typically be found on the ground or top floor. Anyone know?0
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I'm all for building houses, we need them urgently. But adding 500,000 is taking the bottom out of the bucket and trying to fill it. Insane.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
Magic money tree again but in spadespinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.welshowl said:
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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I noticed the other day when SLAB bizarrely selected Frank McAveety (lech of children, eater of many pies) as the new leader of Glasgow Council that he is now SLABs most significant politician.DavidL said:Given that there is no chance of a Labour success in Scotland and even Wales might start to look problematic given the appalling performance there, there is a real chance that Kahn will be the most senior elected Labour politician in the country some time next year.
Hahahahah.
Double ha.0 -
Mr. T, cheers.
[You mean ground floor, right?]0 -
I feel like the middle grounds are being ignored in these scenarios. It's not as though we haven't been having loads of immigration already, and likely will regardless, even if some think we could/should handle a lot more.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
A 'solidarity tax' is an oxymoron. It simply encourages the wealthy to show solidarity with another country.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
He'll no doubt be promising tuition fee cuts and student debt write offs. At the moment the mainstream parties are all doing pretty abysmally with this segment of the electorate, if he can sell himself as an anti establishment figure (aided willingly by the right wing MSM acres of coverage confirming his anti-estab credentials), he could tap into a nice seam of support.Alanbrooke said:
Anyone at Uni today hearing his message will have graduated by 2020. They wont be students.calum said:I guess Corbyn's likely convincing win tomorrow, will no doubt trigger a further avalanche of MSM anti Corbyn coverage. The problem with the no doubt relentless barrage of right wing MSM articles is that folks may become immune to it and even fair criticism of Corbyn will not resonate with the electorate, much has as happened with the SNP. The left wing MSM will no doubt fall into line as the ABC campaign has failed.
As we saw with last night's scenes in Islington, Corbyn is likely to remain in campaign mode for some months to come. I'd anticipate him hitting the Uni campuses hard selling his anti establishment message. Come 2020, If Corbyn is still in situ, the student vote could be an interesting weapon as they can deploy their votes at home or Uni !!0 -
There's a War of the Roses in the comments
I agree with Mr. Tudor.0 -
Corbyn will be popular in the inner cities, but they are Labour anyway, in the suburbs and market towns and rural areas he will have little appealEstobar said:
Yep.HYUFD said:
In the Highlands and Borders and Edinburgh maybe, Glasgow Corbyn rallies were packed out several times overDair said:
Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.
SeanT may like to think he will be toxic (a word which has lost its toxicity) but that's to see the world through a Primrose tinted pair of specs.
Let's see. It's going to be fun.0 -
The rallies were organised by Stop the War and UNITE. Labour are about to be taken over. The comparison with Bill Cash being used by UKIP is vaguely appropriate but misses the point. Cash would have had to be a sleeper agent for both the BNP and KKK put together for it to work.HYUFD said:
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. Cash was IDS' Attorney Generalglw said:
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.HYUFD said:Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.0 -
Lots of people at rallies isn't much different from lots of people on Twitter love Ed. You can make a lot of noise without engaging or persuading the wider public, who you need in their millions to win a general election. And from what I've read about the Corbyn rallies I don't think that they are even remotely representative of the public.kle4 said:It may be, and we'll have to see if Corbyn is as bad as feared, that he could be far worse even while attracting rallies like he has. Getting rallies doesn't do much good if you do just as much or more damage to the party, you just have more people confused at the end as they were sure their guy was super popular, and at that point they are probably a hindrance as they may go into a state of denial, whereas someone who never got the rallies and was also clearly crap won't have any illusions about how they actually did ok but were unlucky or something.
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The policy on tuition fees is particularly bizarre as it bestows private gains (in the form of the graduate premium) in return for public finance. From a 'socialist' perspective it's at least as bad as selling off council houses.calum said:
He'll no doubt be promising tuition fee cuts and student debt write offs. At the moment the mainstream parties are all doing pretty abysmally with this segment of the electorate, if he can sell himself as an anti establishment figure (aided willingly by the right wing MSM acres of coverage confirming his anti-estab credentials), he could tap into a nice seam of support.Alanbrooke said:
Anyone at Uni today hearing his message will have graduated by 2020. They wont be students.calum said:I guess Corbyn's likely convincing win tomorrow, will no doubt trigger a further avalanche of MSM anti Corbyn coverage. The problem with the no doubt relentless barrage of right wing MSM articles is that folks may become immune to it and even fair criticism of Corbyn will not resonate with the electorate, much has as happened with the SNP. The left wing MSM will no doubt fall into line as the ABC campaign has failed.
As we saw with last night's scenes in Islington, Corbyn is likely to remain in campaign mode for some months to come. I'd anticipate him hitting the Uni campuses hard selling his anti establishment message. Come 2020, If Corbyn is still in situ, the student vote could be an interesting weapon as they can deploy their votes at home or Uni !!0 -
If you want to be pedantic about wording, I'll offer some alternatives.Estobar said:
Yep.HYUFD said:
In the Highlands and Borders and Edinburgh maybe, Glasgow Corbyn rallies were packed out several times overDair said:
Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.
SeanT may like to think he will be toxic (a word which has lost its toxicity) but that's to see the world through a Primrose tinted pair of specs.
Let's see. It's going to be fun.
Corbyn will be poisonous for Labour.
Corbyn will be contaminating for Labour.
Corbyn will be lethal for Labour.
Corbyn will be calamitous for Labour.
Corbyn will be ruinous for Labour.
Corbyn will be cataclysmic for Labour.
Corbyn will be terminal for Labour.
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Yes, I can honestly see this madness killing off Labour for good. I have an elderly relative who has been the absolute staunchest of Labour supporters for the best part of sixty years. He says he could not bring himself to vote for them if Corbyn becomes leader. (I was actually shocked when I heard this, so unshakeable had his loyalty been to Labour hitherto.) If old uncle Jim is saying this, what's everyone else thinking?glw said:
Labour MPs must be feeling sick tonight, serves them right.kle4 said:If the MPs had screened the candidates like they were supposed to, they wouldn't have had the option to cause damage in that way.
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Imagine what he'll be like in a general election campaign...HYUFD said:Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb
How we'll laugh!0 -
Are people really saying a packed out hall is a sign of corbyns wider popularity? He won't appeal to UKIP voters concerned about immigration. He won't appeal to small c conservative voters who value fiscal security and sense. He won't appeal to the more moderate labour voters. Who is he left with?
And God forbid, we've apparently got Diane Abbott as shadow health secretary. It's like labour have stuck two fingers up at electorate.0 -
"Are you thinking what Uncle Jim's thinking"?Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, I can honestly see this madness killing off Labour for good. I have an elderly relative who has been the absolute staunchest of Labour supporters for the best part of sixty years. He says he could not bring himself to vote for them if Corbyn becomes leader. (I was actually shocked when I heard this, so unshakeable had his loyalty been to Labour hitherto.) If old uncle Jim is saying this, what's everyone else thinking?glw said:
Labour MPs must be feeling sick tonight, serves them right.kle4 said:If the MPs had screened the candidates like they were supposed to, they wouldn't have had the option to cause damage in that way.
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Either way it is the same resultkle4 said:
It may be, and we'll have to see if Corbyn is as bad as feared, that he could be far worse even while attracting rallies like he has. Getting rallies doesn't do much good if you do just as much or more damage to the party, you just have more people confused at the end as they were sure their guy was super popular, and at that point they are probably a hindrance as they may go into a state of denial, whereas someone who never got the rallies and was also clearly crap won't have any illusions about how they actually did ok but were unlucky or something.HYUFD said:
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. lglw said:
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.HYUFD said:Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.0 -
Mr. glw, plus, vocal but small support makes more noise than quiet and large support.
Crackers to think this time tomorrow Comrade Corbyn *might* be Labour leader.0 -
"They were shown videos of Zac and Sadiq"
I think the results depend on what those particular videos showed about the candidates- not just the colour of their skin. Any links to the videos?
I was sent this one by Zac. I think it is quite appealing - and multi-racial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ErRJSoPls&feature=youtu.be
The more exposure he gets, the better he will do.0 -
I did say that I can't think of a Tory MP who would be as bad, and I'm certain that other political parties will be learning a few lessons from Labour's debacle.flightpath01 said:The rallies were organised by Stop the War and UNITE. Labour are about to be taken over. The comparison with Bill Cash being used by UKIP is vaguely appropriate but misses the point. Cash would have had to be a sleeper agent for both the BNP and KKK put together for it to work.
0 -
Unless those people who might theoretically be supportive of the IRA or at least Irish Nationalism in general have an alternative party to which they are much more committed and probably have supported for many years (certainly before that party's recent surge).david_herdson said:
You never know: it might prevent another Glasgow clean sweep.Dair said:
Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.0 -
Glasgow SLAB will start eating itself soon, Kezia is running a fantasy SLAB from Edinburgh in blogland and Neil Findlay running Corbyn Labour from his garage - triple ha !!Dair said:
I noticed the other day when SLAB bizarrely selected Frank McAveety (lech of children, eater of many pies) as the new leader of Glasgow Council that he is now SLABs most significant politician.DavidL said:Given that there is no chance of a Labour success in Scotland and even Wales might start to look problematic given the appalling performance there, there is a real chance that Kahn will be the most senior elected Labour politician in the country some time next year.
Hahahahah.
Double ha.0 -
Can I be a fly on the wall as you go round Merthyr knocking on doors with that message? Please? You seem to have absolutely zero concern for the views of anybody already legally here, and if they disagree, their communities should be engineered to your views? Just wow. UKIP would love you out canvassing. I'm sure they'd provide transport to be helpful.pinkrose said:
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.welshowl said:
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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On the previous thread (I think it got lost right at the end) I wondered what the newspaper headlines might be. How about 'Labour gets a bad case of the Trots' for the Sun on Sunday?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. glw, plus, vocal but small support makes more noise than quiet and large support.
Crackers to think this time tomorrow Comrade Corbyn *might* be Labour leader.0 -
That's utter nonsense. The most hostile areas are those that immediately border areas with high levels of immigration. Obviously, areas with high levels of immigrants (which are frequently not 'diverse' but monocultural) are likely to be pro-immigration given that those there frequently have a personal interest.pinkrose said:
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.welshowl said:
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
0 -
Did you know that if you add a load of Liverpool fans to a Man United-supporting area, the share of people that are pro-Liverpool increases? It must be because the Man Utd fans like Liverpool the more they're exposed to it.pinkrose said:
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.welshowl said:
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
0 -
Labour is basically giving the electorate a great, big "**** U"Razedabode said:Are people really saying a packed out hall is a sign of corbyns wider popularity? He won't appeal to UKIP voters concerned about immigration. He won't appeal to small c conservative voters who value fiscal security and sense. He won't appeal to the more moderate labour voters. Who is he left with?
And God forbid, we've apparently got Diane Abbott as shadow health secretary. It's like labour have stuck two fingers up at electorate.
They should be unsurprised if the electorate eventually gives them one back...0 -
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.TudorRose said:
A 'solidarity tax' is an oxymoron. It simply encourages the wealthy to show solidarity with another country.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
A LD I know was utterly convinced 18-20 months ago that the LDs would replace Labour within 10-15 years. While hilarious, I still cannot see that happening, or anyone else managing the same move. Where would they go? The ones in Scotland are already gone and hard to get back, granted, but can UKIP master the dance between Tory and Labour to attract all those ex-Labourites sufficiently to replace them, can the Greens step up when they are already where Corbyn is pretty much on a policy level?Stark_Dawning said:
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For the next few years the main opposition party will be effectively a pressure group, yesflightpath01 said:
The rallies were organised by Stop the War and UNITE. Labour are about to be taken over. The comparison with Bill Cash being used by UKIP is vaguely appropriate but misses the point. Cash would have had to be a sleeper agent for both the BNP and KKK put together for it to work.HYUFD said:
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. Cash was IDS' Attorney Generalglw said:
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.HYUFD said:Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.0 -
I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
If he gets that farGIN1138 said:
Imagine what he'll be like in a general election campaign...HYUFD said:Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb
How we'll laugh!0 -
Labour's collapse in Scotland was all their own work. Corbyn's arrival may be a 'breath of fresh air' to his supporters but he has been telling them what they what to hear at anti this that and the other rallies for years. All those words are on record. There is no secret to what is going on. Labour have let the mad woman out of the attic. The nation is not stupid.kle4 said:
The plastic wrap developed for a reason, because the demands of the public forced it on them as the only thing that works. Perhaps we are finally getting to the point where it won't any longer, but despite liking people who are a breath of fresh air, up to now the plastic wrapped still win (The SNP are not as transformative in style as they might like to think, though their cause and energy sets them apart instead as why they won)Estobar said:
Yep. He's real. And that's why he is going to be a breath of fresh air and why people who are used to plastic-wrap politics are scratching their heads wondering what the hell's going on.Dair said:
I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.HYUFD said:Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb0 -
Labour's Voter Importation Programme is working. Very good long term planning
0 -
BrilliantTudorRose said:
On the previous thread (I think it got lost right at the end) I wondered what the newspaper headlines might be. How about 'Labour gets a bad case of the Trots' for the Sun on Sunday?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. glw, plus, vocal but small support makes more noise than quiet and large support.
Crackers to think this time tomorrow Comrade Corbyn *might* be Labour leader.0 -
I would expect a Student Debt write off policy to become quite popular in 10 or so years time. Especially as it would be extremely cheap to achieve.calum said:
He'll no doubt be promising tuition fee cuts and student debt write offs. At the moment the mainstream parties are all doing pretty abysmally with this segment of the electorate, if he can sell himself as an anti establishment figure (aided willingly by the right wing MSM acres of coverage confirming his anti-estab credentials), he could tap into a nice seam of support.Alanbrooke said:
Anyone at Uni today hearing his message will have graduated by 2020. They wont be students.calum said:I guess Corbyn's likely convincing win tomorrow, will no doubt trigger a further avalanche of MSM anti Corbyn coverage. The problem with the no doubt relentless barrage of right wing MSM articles is that folks may become immune to it and even fair criticism of Corbyn will not resonate with the electorate, much has as happened with the SNP. The left wing MSM will no doubt fall into line as the ABC campaign has failed.
As we saw with last night's scenes in Islington, Corbyn is likely to remain in campaign mode for some months to come. I'd anticipate him hitting the Uni campuses hard selling his anti establishment message. Come 2020, If Corbyn is still in situ, the student vote could be an interesting weapon as they can deploy their votes at home or Uni !!0 -
That is what you would expect from a staunch supporter on any political party. If entryists have chosen the worst candidate of course life-long members are going to be hopping mad.Stark_Dawning said:Yes, I can honestly see this madness killing off Labour for good. I have an elderly relative who has been the absolute staunchest of Labour supporters for the best part of sixty years. He says he could not bring himself to vote for them if Corbyn becomes leader. (I was actually shocked when I heard this, so unshakeable had his loyalty been to Labour hitherto.) If old uncle Jim is saying this, what's everyone else thinking?
Forget politics, imagine a company where the chairman is chosen by competitors, or a football club where the team is picked by the opposition. That is more or less what Labour have allowed to happen. Anybody would be bloody furious about such a thing happening to a club, company, or party to which they belonged.
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No you wont enjoy it Speedy. Corbyn is going to FUCK your party good and proper... and the likes of Nick Palmer will be complicit... That should never be forgotten. True colours and all that.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
Immigration is a great benefit to this country and more importantly is essential for a healthy economy and for the future of our country. If a few xenophobic, racists in Merthyr don't like it....TOUGH!!welshowl said:
Can I be a fly on the wall as you go round Merthyr knocking on doors with that message? Please? You seem to have absolutely zero concern for the views of anybody already legally here, and if they disagree, their communities should be engineered to your views? Just wow. UKIP would love you out canvassing. I'm sure they'd provide transport to be helpful.pinkrose said:
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.welshowl said:
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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Your Quite mad aren't you,fortress Britain you say,we have 8 million overseas born people living here.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
But only if people stick around to pay it....pinkrose said:
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.TudorRose said:
A 'solidarity tax' is an oxymoron. It simply encourages the wealthy to show solidarity with another country.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.
Of course, Len McCluskey seems to believe that it's OK to disobey the parts of the law you don't like, so presumably that extends to paying tax?0 -
I don't think that should necessary be consigned to "conservative" voters. Some dedicated labour members are seeing their party reduced to a rudderless laughing stock. I almost feel sorry for them.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
Ho hum, let your blood pressure burst.SquareRoot said:
No you wont enjoy it Speedy. Corbyn is going to FUCK your party good and proper... and the likes of Nick Palmer will be complicit... That should never be forgotten. True colours and all that.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
I still can't quite believe it despite everything. The general election result was a huge surprise, but it seems that Labour's leadership election will utterly eclipse it.Morris_Dancer said:Crackers to think this time tomorrow Comrade Corbyn *might* be Labour leader.
0 -
How about we don't import loads of people, don't have a need for a bloody daft solidarity tax and all get on with our lives?pinkrose said:
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.TudorRose said:
A 'solidarity tax' is an oxymoron. It simply encourages the wealthy to show solidarity with another country.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.0 -
As this is a betting site I'd like to see the odds about pinkrose living in NE, Wales or Scotland.pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
0 -
Hmm, to manage that level of hatred I think he would have to actually become PM, so you think that possible? Merely being everything they despise isn't enough to get that level of hatred that some have for Thatcher, which spans generations and is now more myth than reality - you surely have to be all that and yet still the electorate picked them over you. As that adds extra layers of resentment and perceived Machiavellianess to their evil, that managed to fool the public.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.
0 -
Just as a matter of interest, how is the Leader of the Opposition officially appointed? Theoretically do the MPs actually have the power to appoint someone else, regardless of what the wider labour party wants?0
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There's a big difference... Thatcher was hated partly because of her policies and her manner but also, because no matter how outraged the left became, she kept winning elections...Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.
Corbyn is of course utterly unelectable... So I imagine Conservatives will see him more as Arthur Scargill (I remember my late grandfather actually throwing something at the telly when Scargill came on once) But it won't be like the way lefties used to think about multiple election winning Maggie.0 -
I don't think she's selling anything unless it's some spare hash.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good luck with selling that to the electoratepinkrose said:What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?
Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.0 -
Yes good question. Roughly where are you from Pinkrose?blackburn63 said:
As this is a betting site I'd like to see the odds about pinkrose living in NE, Wales or Scotland.pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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You are comparing a pressure group that follows the country's majority opinion against the Iraq war and a union with 1.5 million members with the KKK? I think that says more about your lunacy and extremism than anyone else's.flightpath01 said:
The rallies were organised by Stop the War and UNITE. Labour are about to be taken over. The comparison with Bill Cash being used by UKIP is vaguely appropriate but misses the point. Cash would have had to be a sleeper agent for both the BNP and KKK put together for it to work.HYUFD said:
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. Cash was IDS' Attorney Generalglw said:
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.HYUFD said:Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.
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Not unless he becomes prime minister.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
Any solidarity tax, to provide housing for example would need to be levied on properties or land. Of course people can avoid tax by leaving the country but they cant take land and property with them.TudorRose said:
But only if people stick around to pay it....pinkrose said:
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.TudorRose said:
A 'solidarity tax' is an oxymoron. It simply encourages the wealthy to show solidarity with another country.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.
Of course, Len McCluskey seems to believe that it's OK to disobey the parts of the law you don't like, so presumably that extends to paying tax?
0 -
Mr. Tudor, can't think of one myself, but there's enough material for the papers to work on.
Mr. T, thanks for that explanation. Ground floor it is.0 -
From what I read on PB, Corbyn has already reached Labour's Thacher levels of hatred among Tories.kle4 said:
Hmm, to manage that level of hatred I think he would have to actually become PM, so you think that possible? Merely being everything they despise isn't enough to get that level of hatred that some have for Thatcher, which spans generations and is now more myth than reality - you surely have to be all that and yet still the electorate picked them over you. As that adds extra layers of resentment and perceived Machiavellianess to their evil, that managed to fool the public.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
On the subject of taxation, I feel like I'm willing to pay plenty to provide things the country needs, but maybe I'm more selfish than I think - I recall a Uni there was this seminar on something or other, I forget what now, and we were asked the question 'Why do we pay taxes?' and I was the first to answer and I said 'Because if we don't we go to prison', which seemed to surprise the lecturer somewhat.0
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I read up on this earlier.alex. said:Just as a matter of interest, how is the Leader of the Opposition officially appointed? Theoretically do the MPs actually have the power to appoint someone else, regardless of what the wider labour party wants?
Is based on convention/precedent.
The Leader of the largest party (in terms of MPs) not in government is appointed Leader of her Majesty's Loyal Opposition0 -
Well she won't be from any northern cities.welshowl said:
Yes good question. Roughly where are you from Pinkrose?blackburn63 said:
As this is a betting site I'd like to see the odds about pinkrose living in NE, Wales or Scotland.pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
0 -
How delightful to have the IRA vote tied up - you must be so proud.Dair said:
Unless those people who might theoretically be supportive of the IRA or at least Irish Nationalism in general have an alternative party to which they are much more committed and probably have supported for many years (certainly before that party's recent surge).david_herdson said:
You never know: it might prevent another Glasgow clean sweep.Dair said:
Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.Estobar said:"Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.
Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.0 -
How about 'because if we don't we'd live in Somalia'?0
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Temporarily, to be sure - but to reach her level it has to sustain itself through the ages. A short leadership, or one which results in them winning again, would mean they could not remain as angry about the things they hate about him, because ultimately it did no harm to them or the country, as they see it.Speedy said:
From what I read on PB, Corbyn has already reached Labour's Thacher levels of hatred among Tories.kle4 said:
Hmm, to manage that level of hatred I think he would have to actually become PM, so you think that possible? Merely being everything they despise isn't enough to get that level of hatred that some have for Thatcher, which spans generations and is now more myth than reality - you surely have to be all that and yet still the electorate picked them over you. As that adds extra layers of resentment and perceived Machiavellianess to their evil, that managed to fool the public.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
Multiculturalism is a failed experiment that badly needs squelched.pinkrose said:
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.
If any good comes from a strong Tory government, it should be smashing this ridiculous idea.0 -
It's ben our AGM today. A fine lunch, plenty of wine. My Tory colleagues have been toasting Sadiq with great enthusiasm. Careful chaps, I told them, his defeat next year will hasten JC's departure. Yes, they said, but the Stupid Party is bound to choose further losers to lead it. A fair point, I said.0
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Mr. glw, Labour's got the worst leadership choice since the Macedonians had to pick between a simpleton and a foetus.
Still, at least there was peace after that difficult decision. And by 'peace' I mean 'almost constant warfare until the Romans and Parthians destroyed the Macedonian kingdoms'.
But if Labour goes for unity, they might have years of socialist madness.
Of course, Corbyn might yet lose. Let's hope he does.0 -
But how is that person decided?TheScreamingEagles said:
I read up on this earlier.alex. said:Just as a matter of interest, how is the Leader of the Opposition officially appointed? Theoretically do the MPs actually have the power to appoint someone else, regardless of what the wider labour party wants?
Is based on convention/precedent.
The Leader of the largest party (in terms of MPs) not in government is appointed Leader of her Majesty's Loyal Opposition0 -
Thought so. Glad we've cleared that up. There you go then, it's not like Labour needs Wales is it? I mean there's only 11% of its seats from an area with under 5% of the UK's electorate.pinkrose said:
Immigration is a great benefit to this country and more importantly is essential for a healthy economy and for the future of our country. If a few xenophobic, racists in Merthyr don't like it....TOUGH!!welshowl said:
Can I be a fly on the wall as you go round Merthyr knocking on doors with that message? Please? You seem to have absolutely zero concern for the views of anybody already legally here, and if they disagree, their communities should be engineered to your views? Just wow. UKIP would love you out canvassing. I'm sure they'd provide transport to be helpful.pinkrose said:
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.welshowl said:
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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And you are an SNP member?Dair said:
Multiculturalism is a failed experiment that badly needs squelched.pinkrose said:
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.
If any good comes from a strong Tory government, it should be smashing this ridiculous idea.0 -
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country.pinkrose said:
Any solidarity tax, to provide housing for example would need to be levied on properties or land. Of course people can avoid tax by leaving the country but they cant take land and property with them.TudorRose said:
But only if people stick around to pay it....pinkrose said:
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.TudorRose said:
A 'solidarity tax' is an oxymoron. It simply encourages the wealthy to show solidarity with another country.pinkrose said:welshowl said:
My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.
Of course, Len McCluskey seems to believe that it's OK to disobey the parts of the law you don't like, so presumably that extends to paying tax?
Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.0 -
If UKIP could get rid of Farage and implement a more Social Democratic economic policy, it could sweep to power.kle4 said:
A LD I know was utterly convinced 18-20 months ago that the LDs would replace Labour within 10-15 years. While hilarious, I still cannot see that happening, or anyone else managing the same move. Where would they go? The ones in Scotland are already gone and hard to get back, granted, but can UKIP master the dance between Tory and Labour to attract all those ex-Labourites sufficiently to replace them, can the Greens step up when they are already where Corbyn is pretty much on a policy level?Stark_Dawning said:
I'm quite glad there is no chance of this happening. Farage would rather see UKIP die than give up control or implement such policies.0 -
It may well have been an extreme comparison, but it has to be pointed out that not all of those members of the union will be in agreement with the specificity or even necessarily the general thrust of the political gameplaying of its leadership. It would be interesting to know what proportion do support it fully, I'm sure someone has somewhat relevant figures to hand.JWisemann said:
You are comparing a pressure group that follows the country's majority opinion against the Iraq war and a union with 1.5 million members with the KKK? I think that says more about your lunacy and extremism than anyone else's.flightpath01 said:
The rallies were organised by Stop the War and UNITE. Labour are about to be taken over. The comparison with Bill Cash being used by UKIP is vaguely appropriate but misses the point. Cash would have had to be a sleeper agent for both the BNP and KKK put together for it to work.HYUFD said:
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. Cash was IDS' Attorney Generalglw said:
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.HYUFD said:Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.0 -
And I repeat the question, and you are an SNP member?Dair said:
If UKIP could get rid of Farage and implement a more Social Democratic economic policy, it could sweep to power.kle4 said:
A LD I know was utterly convinced 18-20 months ago that the LDs would replace Labour within 10-15 years. While hilarious, I still cannot see that happening, or anyone else managing the same move. Where would they go? The ones in Scotland are already gone and hard to get back, granted, but can UKIP master the dance between Tory and Labour to attract all those ex-Labourites sufficiently to replace them, can the Greens step up when they are already where Corbyn is pretty much on a policy level?Stark_Dawning said:
I'm quite glad there is no chance of this happening. Farage would rather see UKIP die than give up control or implement such policies.0 -
I cannot still believe that some time tomorrow I will be writing a thread that says
"Labour has elected Corbyn as leader"
Best birthday present ever0 -
Local election results in Scotland yesterday do not look bad for Labour compared to recent polls and May 2015.0
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God bless you no. Blair was the only Labour leader the Tories ever truly hated - the political alchemist who turned Labour base metal into gold. Corbyn elicits only a baffled amusement.Speedy said:
From what I read on PB, Corbyn has already reached Labour's Thacher levels of hatred among Tories.kle4 said:
Hmm, to manage that level of hatred I think he would have to actually become PM, so you think that possible? Merely being everything they despise isn't enough to get that level of hatred that some have for Thatcher, which spans generations and is now more myth than reality - you surely have to be all that and yet still the electorate picked them over you. As that adds extra layers of resentment and perceived Machiavellianess to their evil, that managed to fool the public.Speedy said:I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.0 -
Mr. Dair, quite a lot of UKIP seems fairly conservative socially, but lefty on economic matters.
I agree with your assessment. If Farage had toddled off, right now UKIP *might* be best-placed to take advantage of Labour's possible madness. The Lib Dems may also have a great chance to bounce back, although I suspect Farron still sees Tories The Enemy, instead of realising Labour are the rivals to be supplanted (maybe I'm wrong, and we'll find out if Corbyn wins).0 -
They'll move to London as soon as they get the chance.pinkrose said:
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.richardDodd said:Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
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