My job is not under threat from "half a million" new arrivals in your scenario (well nearly all won't speak passable English for starters - and why should they from their perspective?), they will not be competing me out of housing, nor am I concerned about primary school places, and I've been registered down the GP's for three decades so no problem there either. So I'm alright jack BUT there are plenty less well off than me for whom these and other issues will be a concern, and that's before you foist cultural change on them willy nilly. Oh and do the dangers matter of attracting more to plod across the Balkans in worsening Autumn weather in what could soon look like a 21st century version of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? Let's put our brains aside and have a good emote and show "leadership" that's far better isn't it?
The answer is not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and turn into mean and nasty fortress Britain but to invest in a massive house building programme to address the needs of future immigration and our current population, to provide new school places and invest in hospitals and services needed to cope with our rising population.
Finland has raised taxes on the wealthy and are talking about bringing in a solidarity tax, something like that would raise the money needed to fund housing and infrastructure needed.
A 'solidarity tax' is an oxymoron. It simply encourages the wealthy to show solidarity with another country.
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.
But only if people stick around to pay it....
Of course, Len McCluskey seems to believe that it's OK to disobey the parts of the law you don't like, so presumably that extends to paying tax?
Any solidarity tax, to provide housing for example would need to be levied on properties or land. Of course people can avoid tax by leaving the country but they cant take land and property with them.
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country. Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.
If they sell it then someone owns it, who will then be taxed. It's quite simple. Wealth taxes are coming, it's just a matter of how long the spivs hold out.
I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.
Not unless he becomes prime minister.
If he becomes PM (which he won't) I should think everybody will be too busy stashing their savings under the mattress and getting the fastest flight out of the country to be especially hateful...
If this nutter became PM it would be a case of the last person out of Britain please turn out the lights... Literally! :^O
Any solidarity tax, to provide housing for example would need to be levied on properties or land. Of course people can avoid tax by leaving the country but they cant take land and property with them.
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country. Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.
That makes no sense! If people sell their property or land in order to move abroad to avoid taxation then whoever purchases the property will have to pay tax on it just as the previous owner would have done. So the revenue would still come in. If a person owns a flat and pays council tax then sells it the next owner pays the council tax. That would be the same with any solidarity tax levied on property or land.
Crackers to think this time tomorrow Comrade Corbyn *might* be Labour leader.
I still can't quite believe it despite everything. The general election result was a huge surprise, but it seems that Labour's leadership election will utterly eclipse it.
Cameron must be appearing as Aladdin in panto at Xmas somewhere. The genie's lamp is the only plausible explanation of recent events.
I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.
Hmm, to manage that level of hatred I think he would have to actually become PM, so you think that possible? Merely being everything they despise isn't enough to get that level of hatred that some have for Thatcher, which spans generations and is now more myth than reality - you surely have to be all that and yet still the electorate picked them over you. As that adds extra layers of resentment and perceived Machiavellianess to their evil, that managed to fool the public.
From what I read on PB, Corbyn has already reached Labour's Thacher levels of hatred among Tories.
Corbyn is a joke. Anyone who wants to stand behind his words are welcome to try to justify them.
Just as a matter of interest, how is the Leader of the Opposition officially appointed? Theoretically do the MPs actually have the power to appoint someone else, regardless of what the wider labour party wants?
I read up on this earlier.
Is based on convention/precedent.
The Leader of the largest party (in terms of MPs) not in government is appointed Leader of her Majesty's Loyal Opposition
I think if it's disputed then the Speaker's ruling is final - if, say, the 1983 election had ended with 112 Labour, 68 SDP and 59 Liberals.
I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.
A nice idea, with one problem: he is also hated by many Labour supporters (as most notably shown by SO). Then there is the nastiness and hate that has occurred within this campaign towards the other candidates, including some rather nasty stuff towards Kendall.
Tories may have suffer fuses in pacemakers (I assume that's what you meant), but Labour might be hung by the electorate, drawn by its supporters and quartered by its MPs.
If you buy the popcorn, I daresay some Tories will join you on the sofa to watch the TV.
Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.
That's utter nonsense. The most hostile areas are those that immediately border areas with high levels of immigration. Obviously, areas with high levels of immigrants (which are frequently not 'diverse' but monocultural) are likely to be pro-immigration given that those there frequently have a personal interest.
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country. Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.
That makes no sense! If people sell their property or land in order to move abroad to avoid taxation then whoever purchases the property will have to pay tax on it just as the previous owner would have done. So the revenue would still come in. If a person owns a flat and pays council tax then sells it the next owner pays the council tax. That would be the same with any solidarity tax levied on property or land.
I wonder who the "member of staff" was? Jeremy was always very punctilious on that score.
"was summoned by Chief Whip Derek Foster for appointing as his research assistant, Ronan Bennett, a former anarchist and IRA sympathiser who, in 1975, was sentenced for the murder of an RUC inspector, which sentence was quashed a year later, Sep '87" "fought the Commons security ban on his researcher, Ronan Bennett, Oct-Nov '87" "defended himself against criticisms of having allowed Ronan Bennett the run of the Palace of Westminster by saying he had never been informed about the charges against him, Jan '89" http://internetserver.bishopsgate.org.uk/files/Parliamentary Profiles Archive/A-D/CORBYN, Jeremy/CORBYN, Jeremy.pdf
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.
Multiculturalism is a failed experiment that badly needs squelched.
If any good comes from a strong Tory government, it should be smashing this ridiculous idea.
Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.
Can I be a fly on the wall as you go round Merthyr knocking on doors with that message? Please? You seem to have absolutely zero concern for the views of anybody already legally here, and if they disagree, their communities should be engineered to your views? Just wow. UKIP would love you out canvassing. I'm sure they'd provide transport to be helpful.
Immigration is a great benefit to this country and more importantly is essential for a healthy economy and for the future of our country. If a few xenophobic, racists in Merthyr don't like it....TOUGH!!
You seem to have missed the point.
There is nothing stopping immigrants setting in Merthyr at the moment.
They won’t.
And if immigrants are settled there under Pinkrose Forcible Settlement & Diversity Enhancement Schemes, they will leave.
They will leave for the same reason that the existing population is leaving.
The South Wales valleys are depopulating. They are depopulating because there are no jobs.
These towns have no reason to exist any more. The coal and Iron that sustained them is gone.They have poor transport links, they are poorly served by rail, and by road. There is nothing there.
Even if you did want to invest in job making in South Wales, you wouldn’t invest in Merthyr. You’d invest along the M4 corridor where there are better transport links and a wealthier population.
From your remarks about Wales, you appear to know zero about it.
Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.
I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.
I don't remember IDS getting rallies like Corbyn did, so it depends which way you look at it but neither have/had any appeal to swing voters. Cash was IDS' Attorney General
The rallies were organised by Stop the War and UNITE. Labour are about to be taken over. The comparison with Bill Cash being used by UKIP is vaguely appropriate but misses the point. Cash would have had to be a sleeper agent for both the BNP and KKK put together for it to work.
You are comparing a pressure group that follows the country's majority opinion against the Iraq war and a union with 1.5 million members with the KKK? I think that says more about your lunacy and extremism than anyone else's.
Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.
They'll move to London as soon as they get the chance.
Rubbish- they'll be too busy culturally invigorating Nantyfyllon, and calling out the citizens of Swansea as racists, according to some. What fun and games.
What a let down if he isn't. Honestly, I think Cooper is probably the more promising of the group, charisma black hole though she is, but what a mislead if she were to win it, even if some entertainment would occur at the shock.
Burnham? I'm not as amused at the idea of him winning. I do actually want a decent opposition and credible Labour party (and if not, then the most amusing outcome, hence Corbyn), and he just seems more incompetent, for all neither has sold themselves well.
Kendall? I've noticed she doesn;t even get mentioned in some pieces on the leadership candidates out there, which is an indication of just how bad she's done, even accepting she was the wrong woman for the wrong time.
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country. Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.
That makes no sense! If people sell their property or land in order to move abroad to avoid taxation then whoever purchases the property will have to pay tax on it just as the previous owner would have done. So the revenue would still come in. If a person owns a flat and pays council tax then sells it the next owner pays the council tax. That would be the same with any solidarity tax levied on property or land.
LOL. Socialists!
Always think there will be no consequences to their actions.
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.
Multiculturalism is a failed experiment that badly needs squelched.
If any good comes from a strong Tory government, it should be smashing this ridiculous idea.
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country. Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.
If they sell it then someone owns it, who will then be taxed. It's quite simple. Wealth taxes are coming, it's just a matter of how long the spivs hold out.
Exactly, taxes eventually need to fall heavier onto wealth, land and property. Also its easier to stop tax avoidance when its property and land that is being taxed.
Local election results in Scotland yesterday do not look bad for Labour compared to recent polls and May 2015.
They are based on the 2012 baseline when the SNP was beginning to do much better (for example Dundee went SNP and Labour lost it for the first time in history). In 2012 the SNP vote was well up on 2011 and in 2011 it was well up on 2010 - the GE2015 baseline was 2010.
No, but every Tory on PB is already obsessed with him, spouting abuse like they're watching the Jerry Springer show.
It is Corbyn season - when even plenty of Labour pundits are obsessed with attacking him, no way online Tories can resist even if the leadership have tried to for the most part.
Labour can't **** this up at the last minutes can they?
If anything, the fallout after an ABC win, with Corbyn close behind, might be more interesting that a Corbyn win. Many people will think the vote was rigged - and the messy way the electoral process has been handled will hardly help that. It's one of the ways this process could spark civil war within the party, although I know NP and others disagree.
What is really starting to annoy me about Blairite MP's and their media friends like McTernan and Hodges is the way they keep abusing and denigrating £3 supporters but in the next breath whine about how unfair poor little Liz Kendall has been treated. If Labour didn't want people to vote who are not full members of the party then why introduce this system? And if you remember it was the Blairites who cheered this system to the rafters when it was introduced by Miliband because they thought they were getting one over on the unions.
I think im typical of the £3 supporter, not a Labour party member, never have been but did vote for them at 2015 and have voted for them before. Im not a infiltrator, Tory or hard Left. I voted for Corbyn no other preferences for the Leadership, Tom Watson for Deputy Leadership and in the London Mayoralty 1st preference, Diane Abbott, 2nd preference Sadiq Khan.
I fully expect that Corbyn will be the most hated man in history among conservatives, on par with vitriol that Labour has with Thatcher.
The only thing I will definitely enjoy is the blown fuses and pacemakers of Tories every time Corbyn is on TV.
Hmm, to manage that level of hatred I think he would have to actually become PM, so you think that possible? Merely being everything they despise isn't enough to get that level of hatred that some have for Thatcher, which spans generations and is now more myth than reality - you surely have to be all that and yet still the electorate picked them over you. As that adds extra layers of resentment and perceived Machiavellianess to their evil, that managed to fool the public.
From what I read on PB, Corbyn has already reached Labour's Thacher levels of hatred among Tories.
He's not hated, he's laughed at. He's a joke at the moment, when he becomes LOTO, he'll be a laughing stock.
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country. Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.
That makes no sense! If people sell their property or land in order to move abroad to avoid taxation then whoever purchases the property will have to pay tax on it just as the previous owner would have done. So the revenue would still come in. If a person owns a flat and pays council tax then sells it the next owner pays the council tax. That would be the same with any solidarity tax levied on property or land.
Cool. So you're planning to drive how many millions into negative equity?
Kendall? I've noticed she doesn;t even get mentioned in some pieces on the leadership candidates out there, which is an indication of just how bad she's done, even accepting she was the wrong woman for the wrong time.
Quentin Letts piece in the Mail today was quite funny, Re. Ms Kendall.
One would assume that if Corbyn hadn't done it, it would've leaked somewhere bynow and there would've been some major movements in the betting markets.
Local election results in Scotland yesterday do not look bad for Labour compared to recent polls and May 2015.
Well, Edinburgh was their best least-worst area in May.
In 2012 the SNP became the largest party on Edinburgh City Council (for the first time), the hated Liberals collapsed and the SNP entered a coalition with Labour.
They were already doing far, far better than they ever had before in 2012 in Edinburgh but still managed an additional 8ppt swing.
8 point swing. In other times that would be considered HUGE.
They can by selling it. It's part of the free market system we currently operate in this country. Or are you suggesting that perhaps Labour should or would sieze land/property to prevent this? If so I can see an enormous flight of capital from the UK if Labour ever get close to 35% in the polls again.
If they sell it then someone owns it, who will then be taxed. It's quite simple. Wealth taxes are coming, it's just a matter of how long the spivs hold out.
Exactly, taxes eventually need to fall heavier onto wealth, land and property. Also its easier to stop tax avoidance when its property and land that is being taxed.
No, it simply leads to asset values being pushed down as the prospect of a wealth tax increases. Which means that the tax take ends up being either very small (and inefficient to collect) or punitive (and creating social discord - which might not help your cohesive nirvana very much)
Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.
Can I be a fly on the wall as you go round Merthyr knocking on doors with that message? Please? You seem to have absolutely zero concern for the views of anybody already legally here, and if they disagree, their communities should be engineered to your views? Just wow. UKIP would love you out canvassing. I'm sure they'd provide transport to be helpful.
Immigration is a great benefit to this country and more importantly is essential for a healthy economy and for the future of our country. If a few xenophobic, racists in Merthyr don't like it....TOUGH!!
You seem to have missed the point.
There is nothing stopping immigrants setting in Merthyr at the moment.
They won’t.
And if immigrants are settled there under Pinkrose Forcible Settlement & Diversity Enhancement Schemes, they will leave.
They will leave for the same reason that the existing population is leaving.
The South Wales valleys are depopulating. They are depopulating because there are no jobs.
These towns have no reason to exist any more. The coal and Iron that sustained them is gone.They have poor transport links, they are poorly served by rail, and by road. There is nothing there.
Even if you did want to invest in job making in South Wales, you wouldn’t invest in Merthyr. You’d invest along the M4 corridor where there are better transport links and a wealthier population.
From your remarks about Wales, you appear to know zero about it.
Local election results in Scotland yesterday do not look bad for Labour compared to recent polls and May 2015.
They are based on the 2012 baseline when the SNP was beginning to do much better (for example Dundee went SNP and Labour lost it for the first time in history). In 2012 the SNP vote was well up on 2011 and in 2011 it was well up on 2010 - the GE2015 baseline was 2010.
I appreciate that but there was nevertheless a very big Labour to SNP swing over the period 2012 to 2015.It simply strikes me that the results yesterday imply a smaller swing than occurred back in May - ie a degree of 'swingback'.
One would assume that if Corbyn hadn't done it, it would've leaked somewhere bynow and there would've been some major movements in the betting markets.
Well Liz Kendall hasn't won.
She's now the same odds to win tomorrow as David Miliband, Chuka Umuna, Harriet Harman, Dan Jarvis, Tristram Hunt and Alan Johnson.
Matthew Goodwin @GoodwinMJ 26m26 minutes ago The benchmark. Net satisfaction with new Labour leaders - month 1. Foot +2 Kinnock +20 Smith +18 Blair +18 Brown +16 Militand +19
It still seems amazing that the leadership contest is actually going to end tomorrow.
I feel like a 5 year old waiting for Christmas - the build up over days and weeks seems interminable and it's quite a surprise when the day finally, finally arrives.
What is really starting to annoy me about Blairite MP's and their media friends like McTernan and Hodges is the way they keep abusing and denigrating £3 supporters but in the next breath whine about how unfair poor little Liz Kendall has been treated. If Labour didn't want people to vote who are not full members of the party then why introduce this system? And if you remember it was the Blairites who cheered this system to the rafters when it was introduced by Miliband because they thought they were getting one over on the unions.
I think im typical of the £3 supporter, not a Labour party member, never have been but did vote for them at 2015 and have voted for them before. Im not a infiltrator, Tory or hard Left. I voted for Corbyn no other preferences for the Leadership, Tom Watson for Deputy Leadership and in the London Mayoralty 1st preference, Diane Abbott, 2nd preference Sadiq Khan.
Anyway, you seem in one of your more grounded moods this evening, Dair, I do have a little long-term side bet with an England resident Nat that were Scotland to gain independence, it would have a rebranded Centre Right government within 20 years - so agree with your sentiment on that.
If the MPs had screened the candidates like they were supposed to, they wouldn't have had the option to cause damage in that way.
Labour MPs must be feeling sick tonight, serves them right.
Yes, I can honestly see this madness killing off Labour for good. I have an elderly relative who has been the absolute staunchest of Labour supporters for the best part of sixty years. He says he could not bring himself to vote for them if Corbyn becomes leader. (I was actually shocked when I heard this, so unshakeable had his loyalty been to Labour hitherto.) If old uncle Jim is saying this, what's everyone else thinking?
"Are you thinking what Uncle Jim's thinking"?
Well, there's the Conservative slogan for 2020 already sorted!
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.
Multiculturalism is a failed experiment that badly needs squelched.
If any good comes from a strong Tory government, it should be smashing this ridiculous idea.
And you are an SNP member?
No, I'm not.
I thought you were an SNP fanatic.
No, I'm not.
Supporting Independence is not the same as supporting the SNP, although they are a useful and so far successful vehicle for its delivery.
Why would a communist paper not already publish on Sundays? Didn't the Soviets go to 6 and even 5 day weeks briefly, I'd have thought they'd operate every day to show disdain for the wastefulness of the weekend.
Also, 'Jowells of Rage'? A stretch, but I'll allow it. I feel like some good pun work or Ghenghis allusions could have been had with the 'Conquering Khan' bit)
No a solidarity tax, provides the revenue to build the infrastructure (housing etc) and provide the services needed for a strong, cohesive, multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural modern Britain.
Multiculturalism is a failed experiment that badly needs squelched.
If any good comes from a strong Tory government, it should be smashing this ridiculous idea.
And you are an SNP member?
No, I'm not.
I thought you were an SNP fanatic.
No, I'm not.
Supporting Independence is not the same as supporting the SNP, although they are a useful and so far successful vehicle for its delivery.
I do wonder if this is going to be the most stupid decision by a Western party since the Doge of Venice persuaded the Fourth Crusade to attack Byzantium.
I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.
Yep. He's real. And that's why he is going to be a breath of fresh air and why people who are used to plastic-wrap politics are scratching their heads wondering what the hell's going on.
Without in any way comparing JC to Hitler, you're talking the same kind of tosh about JC as many a 1930s German spoke about Hitler. He got "elected" from a similar position, but then this is 2015 Britain.
If the MPs had screened the candidates like they were supposed to, they wouldn't have had the option to cause damage in that way.
Labour MPs must be feeling sick tonight, serves them right.
Yes, I can honestly see this madness killing off Labour for good. I have an elderly relative who has been the absolute staunchest of Labour supporters for the best part of sixty years. He says he could not bring himself to vote for them if Corbyn becomes leader. (I was actually shocked when I heard this, so unshakeable had his loyalty been to Labour hitherto.) If old uncle Jim is saying this, what's everyone else thinking?
"Are you thinking what Uncle Jim's thinking"?
Well, there's the Conservative slogan for 2020 already sorted!
What is really starting to annoy me about Blairite MP's and their media friends like McTernan and Hodges is the way they keep abusing and denigrating £3 supporters but in the next breath whine about how unfair poor little Liz Kendall has been treated. If Labour didn't want people to vote who are not full members of the party then why introduce this system? And if you remember it was the Blairites who cheered this system to the rafters when it was introduced by Miliband because they thought they were getting one over on the unions.
I think im typical of the £3 supporter, not a Labour party member, never have been but did vote for them at 2015 and have voted for them before. Im not a infiltrator, Tory or hard Left. I voted for Corbyn no other preferences for the Leadership, Tom Watson for Deputy Leadership and in the London Mayoralty 1st preference, Diane Abbott, 2nd preference Sadiq Khan.
Christ - Diane Abbott! nuff said
Pink Rose is pretty much a full blown Commie.
Excellent - although people are not accused of being commies as much as was once probably the case, it's handy in those instances when it does happen if there are genuine commies around.
Matthew Goodwin @GoodwinMJ 26m26 minutes ago The benchmark. Net satisfaction with new Labour leaders - month 1. Foot +2 Kinnock +20 Smith +18 Blair +18 Brown +16 Miliband +19
Foot apart, those are remarkably consistent scores. In fact, they're so consistent that I wonder whether they're all that meaningful or whether they just tend to measure generic new Labour leader? Do you know what the month 6 figures were?
Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
...
...
...
Can I be a fly on the wall as you go round Merthyr knocking on doors with that message? Please? You seem to have absolutely zero concern for the views of anybody already legally here, and if they disagree, their communities should be engineered to your views? Just wow. UKIP would love you out canvassing. I'm sure they'd provide transport to be helpful.
Immigration is a great benefit to this country and more importantly is essential for a healthy economy and for the future of our country. If a few xenophobic, racists in Merthyr don't like it....TOUGH!!
You seem to have missed the point. There is nothing stopping immigrants setting in Merthyr at the moment. They won’t. And if immigrants are settled there under Pinkrose Forcible Settlement & Diversity Enhancement Schemes, they will leave. They will leave for the same reason that the existing population is leaving. The South Wales valleys are depopulating. They are depopulating because there are no jobs. These towns have no reason to exist any more. The coal and Iron that sustained them is gone.They have poor transport links, they are poorly served by rail, and by road. There is nothing there. Even if you did want to invest in job making in South Wales, you wouldn’t invest in Merthyr. You’d invest along the M4 corridor where there are better transport links and a wealthier population. From your remarks about Wales, you appear to know zero about it.
Knows zero about fiscal and monetary policy as well. I have no desire to insult Merthyr (my father worked down the pit and I have been there a few years ago) but as I recall the 'valleys' are historical by products of coal mining and not suitable for supporting much practical larger or modern industry due to its well valley like geography. By that I mean workers houses built on sides of hills around pit heads. The houses can be improved but what worthwhile employment can be squeezed into these valleys? Tourism? These are issues for the Welsh Assembly (?) but there seems little wider dissemination of the problem. Shunting migrants there hardly seems an answer.
At this very moment I suspect a Corbyn victory would be better for Labour than a Corbyn loss.
If he gets narrowly edged out by one of the others that could cause more gnashing of teeth than a win.
Or am I wrong?
Incidentally, why would Tories hate him? I cant see that he poses a serious threat. I think the technicslities of not carrying the support of the PLP will render him a short-term leader. His objective should be to convince the PLP that future Labour shadow cabinets should have a more leftwing agenda (because his victory proved that point......)
I suspect Tories will fine little to hate in that. Blair proved that elections can only be won by occupying the centre ground. He talked constantly of his joy at seeing the Tories move to their comfort zone on the right. What is happening now to Labour is almost a mirror image of the Tories in 2001.
Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.
Can I be a fly on the wall as you go round Merthyr knocking on doors with that message? Please? You seem to have absolutely zero concern for the views of anybody already legally here, and if they disagree, their communities should be engineered to your views? Just wow. UKIP would love you out canvassing. I'm sure they'd provide transport to be helpful.
Immigration is a great benefit to this country and more importantly is essential for a healthy economy and for the future of our country. If a few xenophobic, racists in Merthyr don't like it....TOUGH!!
Thought so. Glad we've cleared that up. There you go then, it's not like Labour needs Wales is it? I mean there's only 11% of its seats from an area with under 5% of the UK's electorate.
Don't you understand? The Corbyn masterplan sees Labour seizing power by winning 85% of the vote in Camden, Islington, a small shed in Middlesborough and maybe Raqqa.
I've worked it out now. Taxes will go up in a way that makes Hollande look like Friedrich Hayek millions will flee abroad BUT - and this is the brilliant but if you think about it - that creates the space to import squillions to culturally invigorate those that are left, who weren't fortune enough to be able to get their money out of the country to anywhere else on the planet this side of N Korea and Zimbabwe.
Local election results in Scotland yesterday do not look bad for Labour compared to recent polls and May 2015.
They are based on the 2012 baseline when the SNP was beginning to do much better (for example Dundee went SNP and Labour lost it for the first time in history). In 2012 the SNP vote was well up on 2011 and in 2011 it was well up on 2010 - the GE2015 baseline was 2010.
I appreciate that but there was nevertheless a very big Labour to SNP swing over the period 2012 to 2015.It simply strikes me that the results yesterday imply a smaller swing than occurred back in May - ie a degree of 'swingback'.
No, that's a myth.
The swing to the SNP started after 2010. Their vote share between 2011 and 2015 has only grown from 45% to 50%. Most of the SNP gain had already happened by 2012. Also remember that being done on STV the national share isn't directly comparable.
There really is no swingback at all, hence the SNP polling high 50s for Holyrood Constituency VI.
I don't think it's possible for a party to fill the gap Labour will leave as quite simply neither UKIP or the Lib Dems can be the 'alternative' party of government, only Labour can. In fact Corbyn being elected could be bad for all the opposition parties.
UKIP: Will make a play at the old Labour, anti-establishment voters. Corbyn Is also the least pro EU of all the candidates and may spare Labour from being the loud pro EU voice which could have divided Labour voters..
Lib Dems: Farron wants to build a localised grass roots movement. If Corbyn hoovers up all the left leaning voters, their fightback could ht a roadblock.
Greens: Will really struggle with Corbyn having such a similar platform.
SNP: Corbyn's politics are a step back towards lost Labour voters in Scotland and they won't simply be able to just say "progressive" and "anti austerity" all the time to win votes. There'll be no more easy moments for them like the welfare or budget responsibility bill.
What is really starting to annoy me about Blairite MP's and their media friends like McTernan and Hodges is the way they keep abusing and denigrating £3 supporters but in the next breath whine about how unfair poor little Liz Kendall has been treated. If Labour didn't want people to vote who are not full members of the party then why introduce this system? And if you remember it was the Blairites who cheered this system to the rafters when it was introduced by Miliband because they thought they were getting one over on the unions.
I think im typical of the £3 supporter, not a Labour party member, never have been but did vote for them at 2015 and have voted for them before. Im not a infiltrator, Tory or hard Left. I voted for Corbyn no other preferences for the Leadership, Tom Watson for Deputy Leadership and in the London Mayoralty 1st preference, Diane Abbott, 2nd preference Sadiq Khan.
Christ - Diane Abbott! nuff said
Pink Rose is pretty much a full blown Commie.
Excellent - although people are not accused of being commies as much as was once probably the case, it's handy in those instances when it does happen if there are genuine commies around.
Corbyn wants to basically screw everyone just like the Commies do.. Don't bother working hard, we'll tax you to death and nationalise everything.
Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
The North of England, Wales and Scotland has a lot of spare capacity and cheap housing. The Syrian refugees would invigorate many run down areas & communities but i also support a major house building programme to address not only future immigration but the already homeless and those housed in temporary accommodation,B&B's etc.
Have you ever even been to the S Wales Valleys? They'll be looking forward to their cultural invigoration with an unparalleled relish I'm sure. I can see it all now(!)
All the evidence shows that more diverse communities are more pro immigration and those areas that have very very few immigrants are the most hostile. Maybe the South Wales Valleys need to become more diverse.
What a disgracefully arrogant comment from one who obviously believes herself to be speaking from the high moral ground. Disgusting. Also stupid - what evidence?
The results in Edinburgh and Midlothian yesterday showed Labour to SNP swings of 7 and 6% respectively since 2012. I am pretty confident that the swings last May were higher in both areas - in relation to 2012.
At this very moment I suspect a Corbyn victory would be better for Labour than a Corbyn loss.
If he gets narrowly edged out by one of the others that could cause more gnashing of teeth than a win.
Or am I wrong?
Incidentally, why would Tories hate him? I cant see that he poses a serious threat. I think the technicslities of not carrying the support of the PLP will render him a short-term leader. His objective should be to convince the PLP that future Labour shadow cabinets should have a more leftwing agenda (because his victory proved that point......)
I suspect Tories will fine little to hate in that. Blair proved that elections can only be won by occupying the centre ground. He talked constantly of his joy at seeing the Tories move to their comfort zone on the right. What is happening now to Labour is almost a mirror image of the Tories in 2001.
Losing a few Corbynites to the Greens in Islington and Manchester is an easy price to pay for a Cooper or Burnham win. A Corbyn win effectively cedes the election already to the Tories, short of a depression, that is if he lasts that long. I agree Corbyn's win will be like IDS' win, arguably worse, effectively Cameron will have no opposition for 2/3 years at least, just as Blair did from 2001-2003, indeed he may find more problems on his rightflank from UKIP with EUref looming than from the main 'opposition' party just as Blair faced more problems from his leftflank from the LDs over Iraq than he did from IDS' Tories
Anyway, you seem in one of your more grounded moods this evening, Dair, I do have a little long-term side bet with an England resident Nat that were Scotland to gain independence, it would have a rebranded Centre Right government within 20 years - so agree with your sentiment on that.
Yes, it's very likely, I'm not sure it would even take 20 years, the SNP would not be very stable at all after Independence.
Its not even clear what the SNP would be called after Independence. Obviously the Scottish part would be redundant. But the name "National Party" doesn't really belong anywhere on the left of the spectrum.
Local election results in Scotland yesterday do not look bad for Labour compared to recent polls and May 2015.
They are based on the 2012 baseline when the SNP was beginning to do much better (for example Dundee went SNP and Labour lost it for the first time in history). In 2012 the SNP vote was well up on 2011 and in 2011 it was well up on 2010 - the GE2015 baseline was 2010.
I appreciate that but there was nevertheless a very big Labour to SNP swing over the period 2012 to 2015.It simply strikes me that the results yesterday imply a smaller swing than occurred back in May - ie a degree of 'swingback'.
No, that's a myth.
The swing to the SNP started after 2010. Their vote share between 2011 and 2015 has only grown from 45% to 50%. Most of the SNP gain had already happened by 2012. Also remember that being done on STV the national share isn't directly comparable.
There really is no swingback at all, hence the SNP polling high 50s for Holyrood Constituency VI.
But in 2012 the SNP was not enjoying a huge lead over Labour in the polls in any way comparable to the 25% margin of May2015 - it was much closer to neck and neck!
The results in Edinburgh and Midlothian yesterday showed Labour to SNP swings of 7 and 6% respectively since 2012. I am pretty confident that the swings last May were higher in both areas - in relation to 2012.
"Jeremy Corbyn faces the resignation of up to a dozen shadow cabinet ministers on the first day of his leadership as senior Labour figures refused to serve under the hard-Left MP.
Matthew Goodwin @GoodwinMJ 26m26 minutes ago The benchmark. Net satisfaction with new Labour leaders - month 1. Foot +2 Kinnock +20 Smith +18 Blair +18 Brown +16 Miliband +19
Foot apart, those are remarkably consistent scores. In fact, they're so consistent that I wonder whether they're all that meaningful or whether they just tend to measure generic new Labour leader? Do you know what the month 6 figures were?
Corbyn likely to face lowest approval rating for a Labour leader since Foot then
"Jeremy Corbyn faces the resignation of up to a dozen shadow cabinet ministers on the first day of his leadership as senior Labour figures refused to serve under the hard-Left MP.
The results in Edinburgh and Midlothian yesterday showed Labour to SNP swings of 7 and 6% respectively since 2012. I am pretty confident that the swings last May were higher in both areas - in relation to 2012.
The results in Edinburgh and Midlothian yesterday showed Labour to SNP swings of 7 and 6% respectively since 2012. I am pretty confident that the swings last May were higher in both areas - in relation to 2012.
Grasping straws comes to mind
Check the figures for yourself!
Still grasping at straws - no way are labour coming back in Scotland - the SNP have taken over their ground just as the Conservatives have in England
SNP: Corbyn's politics are a step back towards lost Labour voters in Scotland and they won't simply be able to just say "progressive" and "anti austerity" all the time to win votes. There'll be no more easy moments for them like the welfare or budget responsibility bill.
Not remotely.
The reaction to Corbyn by the London Media and the English Electorate (if he even gets to face an electoral test) will simply entrench the left in Scotland in their belief in Independence. When Corbyn is electorally humiliated or, more likely, extricated from his leadership by a Labour coup, it will only enhance the SNP's position.
Corbyn is the best possible outcome for the SNP and Scottish Independence.
"Jeremy Corbyn faces the resignation of up to a dozen shadow cabinet ministers on the first day of his leadership as senior Labour figures refused to serve under the hard-Left MP.
The results in Edinburgh and Midlothian yesterday showed Labour to SNP swings of 7 and 6% respectively since 2012. I am pretty confident that the swings last May were higher in both areas - in relation to 2012.
SNP: Corbyn's politics are a step back towards lost Labour voters in Scotland and they won't simply be able to just say "progressive" and "anti austerity" all the time to win votes. There'll be no more easy moments for them like the welfare or budget responsibility bill.
Not remotely.
The reaction to Corbyn by the London Media and the English Electorate (if he even gets to face an electoral test) will simply entrench the left in Scotland in their belief in Independence. When Corbyn is electorally humiliated or, more likely, extricated from his leadership by a Labour coup, it will only enhance the SNP's position.
Corbyn is the best possible outcome for the SNP and Scottish Independence.
I do wonder if this is going to be the most stupid decision by a Western party since the Doge of Venice persuaded the Fourth Crusade to attack Byzantium.
Was that such a mistake for the Doge? I thought Venice profited greatly from plundering Constantinople?
SNP: Corbyn's politics are a step back towards lost Labour voters in Scotland and they won't simply be able to just say "progressive" and "anti austerity" all the time to win votes. There'll be no more easy moments for them like the welfare or budget responsibility bill.
Not remotely.
The reaction to Corbyn by the London Media and the English Electorate (if he even gets to face an electoral test) will simply entrench the left in Scotland in their belief in Independence. When Corbyn is electorally humiliated or, more likely, extricated from his leadership by a Labour coup, it will only enhance the SNP's position.
Corbyn is the best possible outcome for the SNP and Scottish Independence.
Eh no, Corbyn will at least finally end the 'Red Tories' cry of the cybernats, which will be a bit difficult to apply when he is even more leftwing than Sturgeon. He may not smash the SNP, but the SNP have said Corbyn is the candidate they least want to win the Labour leadership for a reason
"Jeremy Corbyn faces the resignation of up to a dozen shadow cabinet ministers on the first day of his leadership as senior Labour figures refused to serve under the hard-Left MP.
Exactly glad to get rid of the Blairite trash tbh.
Its so ironic that the BLAIRITES drove through the changes for electing the leader. They all but forced Ed to accept them at gunpoint after Falkirk.
BLAIR himself delivered some of his most effusively supportive praise of Miliband after the special conference ratified the new system.
Those are the facts and its blown up in their faces, loooool
The greatest irony being that there was a rule to prevent exactly this sort of thing happening and it was largely Blairite MPs who decided to circumvent it. Who'll be the first to interview Beckett tomorrow?
Local election results in Scotland yesterday do not look bad for Labour compared to recent polls and May 2015.
They are based on the 2012 baseline when the SNP was beginning to do much better (for example Dundee went SNP and Labour lost it for the first time in history). In 2012 the SNP vote was well up on 2011 and in 2011 it was well up on 2010 - the GE2015 baseline was 2010.
I appreciate that but there was nevertheless a very big Labour to SNP swing over the period 2012 to 2015.It simply strikes me that the results yesterday imply a smaller swing than occurred back in May - ie a degree of 'swingback'.
No, that's a myth.
The swing to the SNP started after 2010. Their vote share between 2011 and 2015 has only grown from 45% to 50%. Most of the SNP gain had already happened by 2012. Also remember that being done on STV the national share isn't directly comparable.
There really is no swingback at all, hence the SNP polling high 50s for Holyrood Constituency VI.
But in 2012 the SNP was not enjoying a huge lead over Labour in the polls in any way comparable to the 25% margin of May2015 - it was much closer to neck and neck!
As I said above it is a bad mistake to compare STV elections to FPTP.
But more than that, the SNP was very successful throughout Eastern Scotland, winning power in Dundee, winning power in Edinburgh, only losing power in Aberdeen and Stirling to a Labour/Tory coalitions.
Where the SNP failed in 2012 was in the West of Scotland which was not tested at these elections but has been recently and the SNP has had the expected, much larger swings.
They can't swing the same in Edinburgh (or Dundee, or Stirling, or Aberdeen) because in 2012 they already had record levels of support.
He's got an appalling temper. Hates being challenged or scrutnized as he's never been challenged or scrutinized.
So, to add to the terrorist supporting, ISIS loving, IRA hugging, Bin Laden adoring, Chavez worshipping, quasi-Trotskyism... plus the chronic disloyalty, weird family life, hypocrite spouse and voodoo economics... he is actually not even that nice as a person, despite the claims, indeed he'd a bit of a ticking eggshell-personality time bomb.
Bravo, Labour. Bravo. They found possibly the single worst man to lead the party out of the entire male population of Great Britain.
I wonder if Cameron should simply cut to the chase and call him out as a traitor.
"Jeremy Corbyn faces the resignation of up to a dozen shadow cabinet ministers on the first day of his leadership as senior Labour figures refused to serve under the hard-Left MP.
Exactly glad to get rid of the Blairite trash tbh.
Its so ironic that the BLAIRITES drove through the changes for electing the leader. They all but forced Ed to accept them at gunpoint after Falkirk.
BLAIR himself delivered some of his most effusively supportive praise of Miliband after the special conference ratified the new system.
Those are the facts and its blown up in their faces, loooool
The system would have been fine for the Blairites (or at least not as disastrous as has occurred), had it actually been followed as intended. MPs decided to work around the spirit of the system - making sure any candidate presented to the members had significant parliamentary support (I'm guessing the letter of the rules does not specify that support needs to be genuine) - as they felt a broader debate was more worthwhile than sticking to the spirit of those rules.
Nothing wrong with them making that determination even if some now regret it, they decided other factors were more important, but that does mean it is not really the system Blairites pushed through (I assume you're right that's how it went down, I wouldn't know) that has let them down, it's their fellow MPs for subverting it, and some of them probably did too.
Comments
Edited extra bit: Mr. 1983, a point worth remembering.
If this nutter became PM it would be a case of the last person out of Britain please turn out the lights... Literally! :^O
#goodnightirene
http://www.theonion.com/graphic/july-21-1969-10515
Tories may have suffer fuses in pacemakers (I assume that's what you meant), but Labour might be hung by the electorate, drawn by its supporters and quartered by its MPs.
If you buy the popcorn, I daresay some Tories will join you on the sofa to watch the TV.
That makes no sense! If people sell their property or land in order to move abroad to avoid taxation then whoever purchases the property will have to pay tax on it just as the previous owner would have done. So the revenue would still come in. If a person owns a flat and pays council tax then sells it the next owner pays the council tax. That would be the same with any solidarity tax levied on property or land.
"was summoned by Chief Whip Derek Foster for appointing as his research assistant, Ronan Bennett, a former anarchist and IRA sympathiser who, in 1975, was sentenced for the murder of an RUC inspector, which sentence was quashed a year later, Sep '87"
"fought the Commons security ban on his researcher, Ronan Bennett, Oct-Nov '87"
"defended himself against criticisms of having allowed Ronan Bennett the run of the Palace of
Westminster by saying he had never been informed about the charges against him, Jan '89"
http://internetserver.bishopsgate.org.uk/files/Parliamentary Profiles Archive/A-D/CORBYN, Jeremy/CORBYN, Jeremy.pdf
If anyone doesn't think Corbyn's home, there's lots of free money there.
There is nothing stopping immigrants setting in Merthyr at the moment.
They won’t.
And if immigrants are settled there under Pinkrose Forcible Settlement & Diversity Enhancement Schemes, they will leave.
They will leave for the same reason that the existing population is leaving.
The South Wales valleys are depopulating. They are depopulating because there are no jobs.
These towns have no reason to exist any more. The coal and Iron that sustained them is gone.They have poor transport links, they are poorly served by rail, and by road. There is nothing there.
Even if you did want to invest in job making in South Wales, you wouldn’t invest in Merthyr. You’d invest along the M4 corridor where there are better transport links and a wealthier population.
From your remarks about Wales, you appear to know zero about it.
Burnham? I'm not as amused at the idea of him winning. I do actually want a decent opposition and credible Labour party (and if not, then the most amusing outcome, hence Corbyn), and he just seems more incompetent, for all neither has sold themselves well.
Kendall? I've noticed she doesn;t even get mentioned in some pieces on the leadership candidates out there, which is an indication of just how bad she's done, even accepting she was the wrong woman for the wrong time.
LOL. Socialists!
Always think there will be no consequences to their actions.
(Worse than subtle wrath of Khan pun I used today)
Exactly, taxes eventually need to fall heavier onto wealth, land and property. Also its easier to stop tax avoidance when its property and land that is being taxed.
Oh, was there a Khan pun in one of your articles? Don't think anyone noticed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IAvjSnq69A
They were already doing far, far better than they ever had before in 2012 in Edinburgh but still managed an additional 8ppt swing.
8 point swing. In other times that would be considered HUGE.
She's now the same odds to win tomorrow as David Miliband, Chuka Umuna, Harriet Harman, Dan Jarvis, Tristram Hunt and Alan Johnson.
And they aren't even standing
"Jowells of rage"!
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/642439417064488961
The benchmark. Net satisfaction with new Labour leaders - month 1.
Foot +2
Kinnock +20
Smith +18
Blair +18
Brown +16
Militand +19
I feel like a 5 year old waiting for Christmas - the build up over days and weeks seems interminable and it's quite a surprise when the day finally, finally arrives.
Anyway, you seem in one of your more grounded moods this evening, Dair, I do have a little long-term side bet with an England resident Nat that were Scotland to gain independence, it would have a rebranded Centre Right government within 20 years - so agree with your sentiment on that.
Supporting Independence is not the same as supporting the SNP, although they are a useful and so far successful vehicle for its delivery.
Also, 'Jowells of Rage'? A stretch, but I'll allow it. I feel like some good pun work or Ghenghis allusions could have been had with the 'Conquering Khan' bit)
I do wonder if this is going to be the most stupid decision by a Western party since the Doge of Venice persuaded the Fourth Crusade to attack Byzantium.
"Election 2020: Simple As ABC..."
I have no desire to insult Merthyr (my father worked down the pit and I have been there a few years ago) but as I recall the 'valleys' are historical by products of coal mining and not suitable for supporting much practical larger or modern industry due to its well valley like geography.
By that I mean workers houses built on sides of hills around pit heads.
The houses can be improved but what worthwhile employment can be squeezed into these valleys? Tourism?
These are issues for the Welsh Assembly (?) but there seems little wider dissemination of the problem. Shunting migrants there hardly seems an answer.
If he gets narrowly edged out by one of the others that could cause more gnashing of teeth than a win.
Or am I wrong?
Incidentally, why would Tories hate him? I cant see that he poses a serious threat. I think the technicslities of not carrying the support of the PLP will render him a short-term leader. His objective should be to convince the PLP that future Labour shadow cabinets should have a more leftwing agenda (because his victory proved that point......)
I suspect Tories will fine little to hate in that. Blair proved that elections can only be won by occupying the centre ground. He talked constantly of his joy at seeing the Tories move to their comfort zone on the right. What is happening now to Labour is almost a mirror image of the Tories in 2001.
What could go wrong?
The swing to the SNP started after 2010. Their vote share between 2011 and 2015 has only grown from 45% to 50%. Most of the SNP gain had already happened by 2012. Also remember that being done on STV the national share isn't directly comparable.
There really is no swingback at all, hence the SNP polling high 50s for Holyrood Constituency VI.
UKIP: Will make a play at the old Labour, anti-establishment voters. Corbyn Is also the least pro EU of all the candidates and may spare Labour from being the loud pro EU voice which could have divided Labour voters..
Lib Dems: Farron wants to build a localised grass roots movement. If Corbyn hoovers up all the left leaning voters, their fightback could ht a roadblock.
Greens: Will really struggle with Corbyn having such a similar platform.
SNP: Corbyn's politics are a step back towards lost Labour voters in Scotland and they won't simply be able to just say "progressive" and "anti austerity" all the time to win votes. There'll be no more easy moments for them like the welfare or budget responsibility bill.
Its not even clear what the SNP would be called after Independence. Obviously the Scottish part would be redundant. But the name "National Party" doesn't really belong anywhere on the left of the spectrum.
Paging George Orwell, the Communists are back in full charge.
They are Tristram Hunt, Chris Leslie, Emma Reynolds, Vernon Coaker, Michael Dugher, Shabana Mahmood, Mary Creagh, Yvette Cooper, Chuka Umunna, Lucy Powell, Liz Kendall and a twelfth who asked not to be named."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11859694/Jeremy-Corbyn-faces-a-dozen-shadow-cabinet-resignations-if-he-wins-Labour-leadership.html
The reaction to Corbyn by the London Media and the English Electorate (if he even gets to face an electoral test) will simply entrench the left in Scotland in their belief in Independence. When Corbyn is electorally humiliated or, more likely, extricated from his leadership by a Labour coup, it will only enhance the SNP's position.
Corbyn is the best possible outcome for the SNP and Scottish Independence.
Its so ironic that the BLAIRITES drove through the changes for electing the leader. They all but forced Ed to accept them at gunpoint after Falkirk.
BLAIR himself delivered some of his most effusively supportive praise of Miliband after the special conference ratified the new system.
Those are the facts and its blown up in their faces, loooool
Of course the Pope was less impressed.
But more than that, the SNP was very successful throughout Eastern Scotland, winning power in Dundee, winning power in Edinburgh, only losing power in Aberdeen and Stirling to a Labour/Tory coalitions.
Where the SNP failed in 2012 was in the West of Scotland which was not tested at these elections but has been recently and the SNP has had the expected, much larger swings.
They can't swing the same in Edinburgh (or Dundee, or Stirling, or Aberdeen) because in 2012 they already had record levels of support.
He is.
Nothing wrong with them making that determination even if some now regret it, they decided other factors were more important, but that does mean it is not really the system Blairites pushed through (I assume you're right that's how it went down, I wouldn't know) that has let them down, it's their fellow MPs for subverting it, and some of them probably did too.