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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Sadiq could be quite hard for Zac or any other Tory to

SystemSystem Posts: 12,220
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Sadiq could be quite hard for Zac or any other Tory to beat

Just ask Lynton Crosby. Winning the London mayoralty is all about getting your own supporters out to vote in an an election that has struggled in the past to attract turnout levels of more than 40%.

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Comments

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2015
    Sadiq Khan on Jeremy Corbyn, 14th June 2015:

    "I won't be voting for Jeremy Corbyn and I don't think he can lead us to election victory in 2020."

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=960090640710390&id=275283499191111
  • So much red Labour meat on the table.. difficult to know which bit to devour first..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    It does seem like because people feel Khan is benefiting from new entries being more likely to back him, like Corbyn, they think he will be as poor as Corbyn is predicted to be, but though he can be divisive, it does seem like he is not as divisive as people think, and he does benefit elsewhere, as well as being generally credible* given the time in the public eye he's had.

    *my highest term of praise.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited September 2015
    One of the main problems for Labour in the last couple of mayoral elections is that the two main planks of Labour's London core vote (the young and ethnic minorities) are notoriously hard to get out to vote for anything less than a general election. But more Muslims might be enthused for Khan, especially if the Tory campaign goes down the track of some of the more unpleasant undertones of PBers' comments about Khan today.

    This focus on Labour "needing to win the Tory suburbs" is a red herring in a proportional system -- if they do a better job of maximising turnout in their inner London heartlands, they win.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AndyJS said:

    Sadiq Khan on Jeremy Corbyn, 14th June 2015:

    "I won't be voting for Jeremy Corbyn and I don't think he can lead us to election victory in 2020."

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=960090640710390&id=275283499191111

    So he does have some level of competence if he realises Corbyn is a loser; yet must have made a few enemies in the PLP by his nomination pushing Corbyn over the line.

    This is going to be a very entertaining Party Conference season!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    An interesting titbit...

    Sadiq Khan received more than twice the votes that Tim Farron got to become leader the Lib Dems nationally.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Danny565 said:



    This focus on Labour "needing to win the Tory suburbs" is a red herring in a proportional system -- if they do a better job of maximising their vote in their inner London heartlands, they win.

    The opposite tactic that they need to win a GE, how ironic.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbcnickrobinson: .@jeremycorbyn can write victor's speech tonight. Votes for London mayor candidate show £3 members rejecting Blairite by almost 3 to 1
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @cathynewman: This is not about the death of the Blairies, says @TessaJowell #c4news

    It's an extinction event
  • danny 565..most of the comments today about Khan were reflecting his speeches and relating his actions.. if you find that unpleasant it is because they were .. and posters were right to say so
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @cathynewman: . @HackneyAbbott very coy there on whether @Corbyn4Leader has offered her a job. That's a yes then #c4news @MichaelLCrick
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Because of its big lead in the inner city London leans Labour so of course Khan has a chance, but there is no doubt Jowell was the candidate the Tories feared and the only one who could have been competitive in outer London. If Khan is to win he will need a big lead and turnout in inner London
  • I'm reading the Survation polling as Asians being prepared to admit voting "positively" on race/religion grounds, but others not being prepared to admit the opposite: in fact, in the case of white respondents, perhaps protesting too much. I don't know enough about the dynamics to speculate as to the black respondents (it might just be the quirks of a particular sample in any case).

    We should get some straight Khan v Goldsmith polling soon, I guess.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    Danny565 said:

    One of the main problems for Labour in the last couple of mayoral elections is that the two main planks of Labour's London core vote (the young and ethnic minorities) are notoriously hard to get out to vote for anything less than a general election. But more Muslims might be enthused for Khan, especially if the Tory campaign goes down the track of some of the more unpleasant undertones of PBers' comments about Khan today.

    This focus on Labour "needing to win the Tory suburbs" is a red herring in a proportional system -- if they do a better job of maximising turnout in their inner London heartlands, they win.

    You can be sure that the Tories will do a very good job in maximising turnout in their doughnut heartlands.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Ironically though a Khan defeat would help anti Corbynites more than a Jowell win as it would mean Corbyn had suffered an electoral blow in only his first year as leader, a Labour lead in the Assembly and a better than expected performance in the locals and Scotland and Wales could help him ease the blow, but it would be the first bullet in the gun of those trying to orchestrate his political assassination
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited September 2015
    Jonathan said:

    An interesting titbit...

    Sadiq Khan received more than twice the votes that Tim Farron got to become leader the Lib Dems nationally.

    Votes from fake members. Stop the war crypto communists, signed up to hijack the party they despise.
  • Khans ethnic quota policy will no doubt be challenged in the courts..and will show Labour in a bad light yet again.. It would not surprise me if one of the Unions did not challenge him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    CNN has Biden leading GOP frontrunner Donald Trump and Jeb Bush though he trails Carson. Hillary ties Trump with registered voters and leads him with all voters, narrowly trails Bush with registered voters and leads him with all voters and trails Carson

    All Voters
    Carson 51% (36%)
    Clinton 46% (60%)

    Clinton 50% (53%)
    Bush 46% (41%)

    Clinton 50% (52%)
    Trump 46% (43%)

    Registered Voters

    Carson 51% (–)
    Clinton 46% (–)

    Bush 49% (43%)
    Clinton 47% (52%)

    Trump 48% (45%)
    Clinton 48% (51%)

    All Voters

    Carson 50%
    Biden 47%

    Biden 53%
    Bush 43%

    Biden 57%
    Trump 41%

    Registered Voters

    Carson 50%
    Biden 47%

    Biden 52%
    Bush 44%

    Biden 54%
    Trump 44%
    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/hillary-clinton-poll-women/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Walker falls to tenth in Iowa

    Trump – 27% (10)
    Carson – 21% (10)
    Cruz – 9% (9)
    Bush – 6% (8)
    Fiorina – 5% (3)
    Kasich – 5% (2)
    Rubio – 5% (7)
    Huckabee – 4% (5)
    Paul – 4% (9)
    Walker – 3% (18)
    Jindal – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Graham – 1% (1)
    Perry – 1% (4)
    Santorum – 1% (4)
    Gilmore – 0% (-)
    Pataki – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 4% (5)
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2278
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Serena Williams on the verge of an upset defeat.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    Think there is a typo in the header Mike - presumably Goldsmith loses 6% rather than 9% when named amongst the last category of voter.
  • Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397
    edited September 2015
    A few general thoughts re: "Corbynistas" and Labour.

    It's becoming clear that the right of Labour saw the "union vote" as a bloc vote, when it was really a reflection of a large amount of genuine left-wing grassroots Labour voters. Progress etc were able to diminished the unions but not the union members, unintentionally empowering the silent majority of traditional Labour supporters with a voice, power and prominence. In hindsight, it was clear there was hubristic and dismissive attitude among much of "New Labour" about left-wing voters, believing that more open primaries would inevitably lead to more right-wing candidates, not understanding that it would attract the people who they have been pushing away.

    The election has also demonstrated that there is a vast disconnect between the PLP and much of the Labour voter base, with Labour drifting way too far to the right for the tastes of many of its supporters. This was clearly bubbling beneath the surface and something eventually had to give, and perhaps this is just the start of a broader shift in the Labour party (I've ran out of metaphors to mix).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979
    edited September 2015
    Hope I'm wrong, but the London Mayoral has the makings of a significantly divisive religious contest. How much of Labour's north London Jewish vote is going to vote for Khan? Or its west London's Hindu base? Or even the West African Christian vote?

    I just can't see how getting a few Muslim Tories to switch over counter-acts those potential losses, if it does acquire a religious aspect.

    If ISIS slips through our intelligence net and commits a spectacular in the capital before the Mayoral, I can't see how he stops some of that attaching to him. It only needs one of his activists to say something supportive of ISIS on Facebook or Twitter in response - and he will be pedaling backwards in ever decreasing circles.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    SeanT said:

    Yeah I can see Khan winning. But his fellow travelling with Islamists and Islamism, his anti white racial quotas, and so forth, will just introduce more poison into the Labour body politic. What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.

    I suspect Labour are about to haemorrhage votes to UKIP.

    Fascinating polling from Lord Ashcroft. Labour are losing loyal voters to UKIP and to a lesser extent the Tories.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2015/09/those-voters-who-abandoned-labour-in-may-could-be-lost-to-them-for-the-long-term.html

    Khan winning could be a disaster for Labour nationally.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Scott_P said:

    @cathynewman: This is not about the death of the Blairies, says @TessaJowell #c4news

    It's an extinction event

    I would not be surprised if some Blairites would rather Goldsmith and Cameron won than Khan and Corbyn
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,100
    SeanT said:

    Yeah I can see Khan winning. But his fellow travelling with Islamists and Islamism, his anti white racial quotas, and so forth, will just introduce more poison into the Labour body politic. What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.

    I suspect Labour are about to haemorrhage votes to UKIP.


    What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.
    And of course, with the media being so very London-centric, what is happening in London gets well advertised all around the country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    AnneJGP said:

    SeanT said:

    Yeah I can see Khan winning. But his fellow travelling with Islamists and Islamism, his anti white racial quotas, and so forth, will just introduce more poison into the Labour body politic. What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.

    I suspect Labour are about to haemorrhage votes to UKIP.


    What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.
    And of course, with the media being so very London-centric, what is happening in London gets well advertised all around the country.
    Inner London yes, the Tories actually won outer London at the election
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979
    HYUFD said:

    Walker falls to tenth in Iowa

    Trump – 27% (10)
    Carson – 21% (10)
    Cruz – 9% (9)
    Bush – 6% (8)
    Fiorina – 5% (3)
    Kasich – 5% (2)
    Rubio – 5% (7)
    Huckabee – 4% (5)
    Paul – 4% (9)
    Walker – 3% (18)
    Jindal – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Graham – 1% (1)
    Perry – 1% (4)
    Santorum – 1% (4)
    Gilmore – 0% (-)
    Pataki – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 4% (5)
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2278

    Bush down to 6% - he must surely be toast?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,389
    Sadiq Khan might win... But we all know Tessa would have been a better candidate for Labour.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited September 2015
    People are making the assumption that Labour's inner London vote will troop to the polls in support of Khan.

    Some of them won't. Look at the fracturing in Tower Hamlets.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Hope I'm wrong, but the London Mayoral has the makings of a significantly divisive religious contest. How much of Labour's north London Jewish vote is going to vote for Khan? Or its west London's Hindu base? Or even the West African Christian vote?

    I just can't see how getting a few Muslim Tories to switch over counter-acts those potential losses, if it does acquire a religious aspect.

    If ISIS slips through our intelligence net and commits a spectacular in the capital before the Mayoral, I can't see how he stops some of that attaching to him. It only needs one of his activists to say something supportive of ISIS on Facebook or Twitter in response - and he will be pedaling backwards in ever decreasing circles.

    Let us not forget Sadiq Khan's childhood friend Babar Ahmad, a convicted terrorist.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    danny 565..most of the comments today about Khan were reflecting his speeches and relating his actions.. if you find that unpleasant it is because they were .. and posters were right to say so

    Labour will always, always play the racist card. It's in their nature and their time honoured way of shutting down debate. Prepare for more of the same.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SkyNewsTonight: Ken Livingstone: 'everything they say about Jeremy they said about me before I was elected Mayor' #SkyNewsTonight https://t.co/b6fJl0xEui
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    HYUFD said:

    Walker falls to tenth in Iowa

    Trump – 27% (10)
    Carson – 21% (10)
    Cruz – 9% (9)
    Bush – 6% (8)
    Fiorina – 5% (3)
    Kasich – 5% (2)
    Rubio – 5% (7)
    Huckabee – 4% (5)
    Paul – 4% (9)
    Walker – 3% (18)
    Jindal – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Graham – 1% (1)
    Perry – 1% (4)
    Santorum – 1% (4)
    Gilmore – 0% (-)
    Pataki – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 4% (5)
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2278

    Bush down to 6% - he must surely be toast?
    Yes, but Bush lacks the name recognition of the other candidates.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Interesting article on Biden from politico.com - for me the key piece is that in the latest poll Biden leads in 2nd preferences. Seen as an AV contest, that would give him a reasonable chance of winning the nod.

    With Hillary's lead tumbling (completely lost in NH and Iowa) nationally, and the three most common unprompted words offered to describe her as 'liar', 'dishonest' and 'untrustworthy', the political space for a Biden entry is getting ever bigger.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/joe-biden-2016-campaign-taking-shape-213545
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @cathynewman: This is not about the death of the Blairies, says @TessaJowell #c4news

    It's an extinction event

    I would not be surprised if some Blairites would rather Goldsmith and Cameron won than Khan and Corbyn
    I'm fairly sure that's the outcome preferred by T Blair himself. He would consider it a disaster for Labour AND the country if Labour won under Corbyn.
    Indeed, this Guardian article by Tone makes that pretty clear
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/29/tony-blair-labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn

    I expect many of the Blairites to spend the Corbyn years making some money and staying away from the frontline of politics other than to occasionally plot his overthrow, much as Tory modernisers and Europhiles did in the IDS years, Heseltine, Clarke, Portillo and Maude certainly were more favourable towards Blair than IDS
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited September 2015
    Mecca Mosque Crane Crash - fatalities closing on 100

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/11/mecca-crane-crash-more-than-50-dead-at-grand-mosque-live

    On September 11th.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008

    HYUFD said:

    Walker falls to tenth in Iowa

    Trump – 27% (10)
    Carson – 21% (10)
    Cruz – 9% (9)
    Bush – 6% (8)
    Fiorina – 5% (3)
    Kasich – 5% (2)
    Rubio – 5% (7)
    Huckabee – 4% (5)
    Paul – 4% (9)
    Walker – 3% (18)
    Jindal – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Graham – 1% (1)
    Perry – 1% (4)
    Santorum – 1% (4)
    Gilmore – 0% (-)
    Pataki – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 4% (5)
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2278

    Bush down to 6% - he must surely be toast?
    Indeed, not only has he been overtaken by Trump but Carson is now emerging as his main challenger
  • Hope I'm wrong, but the London Mayoral has the makings of a significantly divisive religious contest. How much of Labour's north London Jewish vote is going to vote for Khan? Or its west London's Hindu base? Or even the West African Christian vote?
    I just can't see how getting a few Muslim Tories to switch over counter-acts those potential losses, if it does acquire a religious aspect.
    If ISIS slips through our intelligence net and commits a spectacular in the capital before the Mayoral, I can't see how he stops some of that attaching to him. It only needs one of his activists to say something supportive of ISIS on Facebook or Twitter in response - and he will be pedaling backwards in ever decreasing circles.

    Yes hopefully wrong. Khan will no doubt want to smooth over what would appear to be his defamatory past. Goldsmith of course must be hoping to bring something positive himself to the contest. But its the New Model Socialist Labour Party £3 activists not just their candidate who will possibly turn off the collection of voters you refer to.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    I'm happy that Sadiq won.Tessa Jowell was at the excessive end of careerist politicians. So go Sadiq- I think he'll win quite comfortably. Damn not taking that Henry tip
  • tyson.. Are you in favour of ethnic quotas..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    MTimT said:

    Interesting article on Biden from politico.com - for me the key piece is that in the latest poll Biden leads in 2nd preferences. Seen as an AV contest, that would give him a reasonable chance of winning the nod.

    With Hillary's lead tumbling (completely lost in NH and Iowa) nationally, and the three most common unprompted words offered to describe her as 'liar', 'dishonest' and 'untrustworthy', the political space for a Biden entry is getting ever bigger.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/joe-biden-2016-campaign-taking-shape-213545

    Biden may well wait until January to announce, by then any fatally damaging info from the emails should most likely have come out and he will be able to enter the Iowa caucuses and also still have time to file for a substantial amount of primaries
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Walker falls to tenth in Iowa

    Trump – 27% (10)
    Carson – 21% (10)
    Cruz – 9% (9)
    Bush – 6% (8)
    Fiorina – 5% (3)
    Kasich – 5% (2)
    Rubio – 5% (7)
    Huckabee – 4% (5)
    Paul – 4% (9)
    Walker – 3% (18)
    Jindal – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Graham – 1% (1)
    Perry – 1% (4)
    Santorum – 1% (4)
    Gilmore – 0% (-)
    Pataki – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 4% (5)
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2278

    Bush down to 6% - he must surely be toast?
    Indeed, not only has he been overtaken by Trump but Carson is now emerging as his main challenger
    I am tempted to start laying Bush. He has a huge amount of ground to make up.
  • What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?

    Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.
  • When is the deadline for POTUS candidates to file for the Primaries?
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Khan will likely win, and I suggest the Tories start aiming their ludicrously hubristic gloating elsewhere for fear of starting to look very foolish much sooner than might otherwise be expected.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    pinkrose said:

    What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?

    Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.

    Half a million! Am I misreading something?
  • welshowl said:

    pinkrose said:

    What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?

    Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.

    Half a million! Am I misreading something?
    Worth pointing out that Germany is NOT planning to take in 500,000 Syrians - there are far more asylum seekers entering Germany from the Balkans than from Syria (and most of their asylum requests will be refused).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    SeanT said:

    Yeah I can see Khan winning. But his fellow travelling with Islamists and Islamism, his anti white racial quotas, and so forth, will just introduce more poison into the Labour body politic. What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.

    I suspect Labour are about to haemorrhage votes to UKIP.

    I don't think so, once the Standard and Metro get their teeth into Khan then he will be toast. I know four people plus me who have signed up to the Tory volunteer team to stop Khan. The ill feeling in the Jewish, Hindu and Sikh community towards Khan should not be underestimated. While Labour may rely on a higher Muslim turnout, the Tories should begin cultivating the non-Muslim ethnic vote in London, which is just as large.

    We must stop Khan at all costs, even if it means a divisive campaign. He would be a complete and utter disaster, think Lutfur Rahman on a larger scale with a budget 10x as large to funnel into Muslim special interest groups.
  • Pinkrose Yeh.. so we just need to find approx 300,000 homes perhaps 100,000 more school places quite a few hundred extra doctors.. for starters..the we need to eventually employ them. This in a country that is struggling with a shortage of doctors, thousands homeless, a creaking education system and still a huge nunmber of jobless...yep all we need is another half a mil..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008

    When is the deadline for POTUS candidates to file for the Primaries?

    Varies from state to state
    http://ballotpedia.org/Important_dates_in_the_2016_presidential_race
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    MP_SE said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Walker falls to tenth in Iowa

    Trump – 27% (10)
    Carson – 21% (10)
    Cruz – 9% (9)
    Bush – 6% (8)
    Fiorina – 5% (3)
    Kasich – 5% (2)
    Rubio – 5% (7)
    Huckabee – 4% (5)
    Paul – 4% (9)
    Walker – 3% (18)
    Jindal – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Graham – 1% (1)
    Perry – 1% (4)
    Santorum – 1% (4)
    Gilmore – 0% (-)
    Pataki – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 4% (5)
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2278

    Bush down to 6% - he must surely be toast?
    Indeed, not only has he been overtaken by Trump but Carson is now emerging as his main challenger
    I am tempted to start laying Bush. He has a huge amount of ground to make up.
    Indeed, from the anticipated Bush v Clinton battle it is now a distinct possibility neither will be nominee and it could be Trump v Biden instead
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    welshowl said:

    pinkrose said:

    What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?

    Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.

    Half a million! Am I misreading something?
    Worth pointing out that Germany is NOT planning to take in 500,000 Syrians - there are far more asylum seekers entering Germany from the Balkans than from Syria (and most of their asylum requests will be refused).
    Germany no longer has a fecking clue what it's planning frankly, as Merkel has fired the starting pistol on a bizarre and dangerous cross continental Darwinian race for however many can make it from Syria and Iraq to the Bavarian border.
  • pinkrose said:

    What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?

    Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.

    Good luck with selling that to the electorate
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    edited September 2015
    Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
    https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    pinkrose said:

    What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?

    Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.

    What evidence do you have that they are "highly educated"? Only 30% of Syrians went to some form of tertiary education, compared to 60% for the UK:

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.TER.ENRR

    And I'm pretty sure our tertiary education system, for all its flaws, is better than theirs.
  • Merkel has pulled all of Europe into her ridiculous quagmire..it will be for keeps.. they will not be repatriated..ever..
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited September 2015
    The recent discusssions on Junts pel Si has had me look a little closer at the actual polling numbers for Catalan Independence.

    What is stunningly clear from the movements in polling over recent years is how the denying of full Federalism appears to have done more than anything to promote the growth of the call for Independence.

    If you look back to 2005, given a choice of Independence, Federalism, Status Quo (Autonomous Community) and status as a Region (more integration), Independence was only backed by 13.6% of the population.

    Over time this has grown to a peak in 2013 at 48% and currently sits around the 40% mark (last poll 37.6%) while there's been a significant drop not just in the status quo but the numbers who back Federalism. Meanwhile support for Federalism has plummeted even faster than support for the Status Quo. The Federal option is becoming as relevant as the Liberals.

    Interestingly, I don't recall recent polls in Scotland asking the three part question, some have asked if people support FFA but not as an alternative to Independence.

    The assumption has always been that about 30% back Independence, 30% Union and 40% a Federal option/DevoMax/FFA for Scotland. I wonder if this assumption can still be relied upon.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    Comprehensive victory for Sadiq presaging another comprehensive victory for Corbyn.

    There are quite a few people running around scratching their heads. Well, let me help.

    The moment the zeitgeist changed was the moment Britain woke up and realised it wasn't getting another LibDem-Con coalition but a Conservative Government. Although some of us thought this would happen, it caught most people unawares.

    For the past x years the left has been served not by Labour, which under the Blairites wasn't remotely left, but by the Liberal Democrats with the Greens.

    Now the forces are uniting, and partly in real anger, behind Corbyn and Khan.

    Many assume Corbyn cannot win, which may be true, but politics in Britain is about to become very interesting indeed. Remember, the Tories have a wafer thin majority: the slimmest for 40 years. You just wait until the shine comes off ...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    HYUFD said:

    Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
    https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb

    I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    Yeah I can see Khan winning. But his fellow travelling with Islamists and Islamism, his anti white racial quotas, and so forth, will just introduce more poison into the Labour body politic. What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.

    I suspect Labour are about to haemorrhage votes to UKIP.

    I don't think so, once the Standard and Metro get their teeth into Khan then he will be toast. I know four people plus me who have signed up to the Tory volunteer team to stop Khan. The ill feeling in the Jewish, Hindu and Sikh community towards Khan should not be underestimated. While Labour may rely on a higher Muslim turnout, the Tories should begin cultivating the non-Muslim ethnic vote in London, which is just as large.

    We must stop Khan at all costs, even if it means a divisive campaign. He would be a complete and utter disaster, think Lutfur Rahman on a larger scale with a budget 10x as large to funnel into Muslim special interest groups.
    The metro won't attack Corbyn, and the standard's attacks are priced in. Didn't stop Ken winning twice during a labour government, Khan is only feared by right wing loonies, he comes across as very boring and moderate. The labour activist base is going to be on fire after a Corbyn win, so a few extremist tory loons like yourself aren't going to touch the sides.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    HYUFD said:

    Walker falls to tenth in Iowa

    Trump – 27% (10)
    Carson – 21% (10)
    Cruz – 9% (9)
    Bush – 6% (8)
    Fiorina – 5% (3)
    Kasich – 5% (2)
    Rubio – 5% (7)
    Huckabee – 4% (5)
    Paul – 4% (9)
    Walker – 3% (18)
    Jindal – 2% (3)
    Christie – 1% (1)
    Graham – 1% (1)
    Perry – 1% (4)
    Santorum – 1% (4)
    Gilmore – 0% (-)
    Pataki – 0% (0)
    Undecided – 4% (5)
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2278

    Bush down to 6% - he must surely be toast?
    Not necessarily, I think we have to assume that eventually Trump and Carson are going to fall away (although I fully accept that this might not be the case and they are serious contenders), and when that happens, it's a wide open field behind them.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    I have come around 360 degrees and am more than happy tomorrow will see Jezza as our leader. After the appalling Ed Miliband, Labour must learn that careerist non entities with little about them should ever compete for leadership of the party. Yvette, Andy and Liz....off you go.

    Jez is going to win because Labour could not find anyone else with anything about them
  • tyson.. are you in favour of ethnic quotas..
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    Shows how well you know London. Primrose Hill is luvvie central, full of the Guardian reading chattering classes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
    https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb

    He's got an appalling temper. Hates being challenged or scrutnized as he's never been challenged or scrutinized.

    So, to add to the terrorist supporting, ISIS loving, IRA hugging, Bin Laden adoring, Chavez worshipping, quasi-Trotskyism... plus the chronic disloyalty, weird family life, hypocrite spouse and voodoo economics... he is actually not even that nice as a person, despite the claims, indeed he'd a bit of a ticking eggshell-personality time bomb.

    Bravo, Labour. Bravo. They found possibly the single worst man to lead the party out of the entire male population of Great Britain.
    Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    Scotland is not as left of centre as it thinks it is - IIRC attitudes surveys repeatedly show the views of Scots on most issues is really not that different from rUK, even if they think they are. That said, clearly they have no intention of voting in MPs not under the centre left banner.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Please. I am not in favour of any quotas of any kind ever.

    tyson.. are you in favour of ethnic quotas..

    HYUFD said:

    Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
    https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    tyson said:

    I have come around 360 degrees and am more than happy tomorrow will see Jezza as our leader. After the appalling Ed Miliband, Labour must learn that careerist non entities with little about them should ever compete for leadership of the party. Yvette, Andy and Liz....off you go.

    Jez is going to win because Labour could not find anyone else with anything about them

    How can you be a Labour supporter and be remotely happy about Corbyn winning?

    The only thing he guarantees is that your will never win another election (probably ever) and your oblivion in Scotland will happen much, much faster.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    edited September 2015
    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    There are plenty of leftwingers in Primrose Hill (it actually has a Labour MP) in fact probably far more than in Nuneaton, Crawley, Bolton West and Gower where the next election will actually be decided
  • Tyson..Then why are you pleased Khan would impose them if he gets in
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited September 2015
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
    https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb

    He's got an appalling temper. Hates being challenged or scrutnized as he's never been challenged or scrutinized.
    I'm sure that's true, although an incident like that, pushing away a camera, is not the best example. Losing his cool under questioning would be a much better thing for people, at some point, to hold against him. And we may well have more examples of that at some point - hell, the newer breed of MPs are close to that already if Corbyn is not; the Umunnas and Powells of the world are often astoundingly petulant under questioning.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    I could think of possibly one person worse- his second name rhymes with Thomas, and his first name with Sean.
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
    https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb

    He's got an appalling temper. Hates being challenged or scrutnized as he's never been challenged or scrutinized.

    So, to add to the terrorist supporting, ISIS loving, IRA hugging, Bin Laden adoring, Chavez worshipping, quasi-Trotskyism... plus the chronic disloyalty, weird family life, hypocrite spouse and voodoo economics... he is actually not even that nice as a person, despite the claims, indeed he'd a bit of a ticking eggshell-personality time bomb.

    Bravo, Labour. Bravo. They found possibly the single worst man to lead the party out of the entire male population of Great Britain.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    Given that Livingstone lost the last Mayoral election narrowly, which some attributed to the Jewish vote, the choice of Khan as Labour candidate is likely to antagonise this section of the electorate. At the time I noted the discrepancy between the support for Labour in the Camden/Barnet seat on the GLA, which Labour won, compared to the substantial support for Johnson over Livingstone in the same constituency area. These 2 boroughs have some of the highest number of Jews (as % of the total population) in the UK (Barnet 15.5%, Camden 5%).

    This is in no way a criticism of Khan as the Labour mayoral candidate. However, most Jews tend to be hostile to those perceived as anti-Zionist, as they will be to Corbyn (should he become Labour leader).
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    SeanT said:

    Dair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Astonishing footage of Corbyn minder pushing away a C4 news camera and Corbyn aggressively shouting 'get out of my way'
    https://twitter.com/Channel4News?lang=en-gb

    I think Corbyn was quite entitled to yell at the idiotic cameraman. The press do not have the right to block people's movement (especially when they risk injuring people with their actions). I can imagine most people would get annoyed if they couldn't get on their bike for cameramen pushing their lens into their face and blocking their passage.
    Perhaps. But it's still ill-advised, and, more importantly, it's not a one-off. There is a pattern of him being querulous and seriously irritable when put on the spot.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4c_z8Jyuas
    That's true, I fully accept he has anger management issues and will come a cropper time and time again.

    But the C4 cameraman was not a justified example, he was perfectly right to yell at an idiot putting him into a potentially harmful situation. In your face press harassment outside of chasing down wrongdoers who are refusing to be interviewed really is out of hand these days.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    JWisemann said:

    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    Yeah I can see Khan winning. But his fellow travelling with Islamists and Islamism, his anti white racial quotas, and so forth, will just introduce more poison into the Labour body politic. What is popular in London might look ghastly everywhere else.

    I suspect Labour are about to haemorrhage votes to UKIP.

    I don't think so, once the Standard and Metro get their teeth into Khan then he will be toast. I know four people plus me who have signed up to the Tory volunteer team to stop Khan. The ill feeling in the Jewish, Hindu and Sikh community towards Khan should not be underestimated. While Labour may rely on a higher Muslim turnout, the Tories should begin cultivating the non-Muslim ethnic vote in London, which is just as large.

    We must stop Khan at all costs, even if it means a divisive campaign. He would be a complete and utter disaster, think Lutfur Rahman on a larger scale with a budget 10x as large to funnel into Muslim special interest groups.
    The metro won't attack Corbyn, and the standard's attacks are priced in. Didn't stop Ken winning twice during a labour government, Khan is only feared by right wing loonies, he comes across as very boring and moderate. The labour activist base is going to be on fire after a Corbyn win, so a few extremist tory loons like yourself aren't going to touch the sides.
    Ken won because there was no decent candidate to oppose him from Labour or the Tories. Also, at the time Ken didn't associate with Islamist nutbags, Ken also went on to lose two contests to Boris, who was considered the height of unelectability in 2008. Completely unfavoured vs Ken.

    Ken also got a lot of support from the WWC who are much less likely to support Khan. The few Muslim Tories that may switch to Labour won't make up for the loss of the WWC who probably won't bother voting at all given the choices.

    Khan won't win against Goldsmith, he might have done against other Tory candidates, but against Goldsmith he won't. Goldsmith is better looking version of Boris. He will even begin to go by his first name soon, it will be Zac vs Khan.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Another example of why Labour in the short term will not be going anywhere:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMQLSkM1_sU

    Jess Phillips attacks Corbyn for being a white male.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.

    Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,995
    Evening all :)

    Have to say I was surprised Sadiq Khan won the Labour Mayoral nomination so easily. The question is now whether he can deliver London for Labour next year.

    I suspect the MaxPBs of this world would have been rushing to the Tory flag even if Tessa Jowell had won and the battle won't be won or lost in my part of London either. London isn't uniform - it has a diverse number of areas with their own characteristics and what plays well in one area might not do so in another.

    That said, it's much more about getting out the vote - if the new Labour machine can get supporters to vote for Khan, especially in the inner suburbs, the Conservatives will have a real fight. Oddly enough, we could have the 2020 Mayoral Election on General Election day but that's a long way down the road.

    As the Evening Standard pointed out, both Labour and Conservative candidates are opposed to Heathrow expansion which will be interesting given the apparent direction in Government policy. Would a pro-expansion candidate have a chance ? Perhaps not but it would be interesting to see such a candidate argue the case for expanding Heathrow against, for example, the currently heavily publicised option of expanding Gatwick.

    Over my side of town, the pro-Heathrow argument would have a better hearing and proponents of Heathrow argue airport expansion would provide a huge boost to the area.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Dair said:

    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.

    Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.
    In the Highlands and Borders and Edinburgh maybe, Glasgow Corbyn rallies were packed out several times over
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    kle4 said:

    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    Scotland is not as left of centre as it thinks it is - IIRC attitudes surveys repeatedly show the views of Scots on most issues is really not that different from rUK, even if they think they are. That said, clearly they have no intention of voting in MPs not under the centre left banner.
    Scots would happily vote for a centre right party which was not called The Conservative and Unionist Party. A right of centre party supporting Independence and un-corrupted by Tories would be very successful.
  • pinkrose said:

    What i dont understand about this "quota system" proposed by Juncker and being pushed by Merkel is this, how is the EU going to make sure those dispersed to say Slovakia actually STAY in Slovakia? Free movement is a fundamental principle of being an EU citizen, guest worker, accepted refugee etc. We cannot have 2nd class citizens, everyone should have the same rights, including the freedom to live and work wherever in the Euopean Union you want. Maybe im missing something, can anyone explain?

    Personally i think Britain is missing out, the majority of the Syrians arriving in Europe are highly educated, mobile, middle class who will im sure be economically beneficial. I would have no problem with similar numbers to Germany being taken in by us, as long as housing and other infrastructure and services were provided. The Muslim population of Britain is dominated by those of Pakistani & Bengali heritage with a small but growing Somali population, allowing a large number of Syrians (500,000+) would actually diversify the population and break the dominance of those either from the Indian sub continent or with that heritage.

    Good luck with selling that to the electorate
    The current refugee crisis calls for leadership not pandering to the Islamophobic elements of the electorate. I'm ashamed of how Cameron has turned his back on desperate people especially when he is keen to take military action here there and everywhere without a second thought to the consequences.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    MP_SE said:

    Another example of why Labour in the short term will not be going anywhere:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMQLSkM1_sU

    Jess Phillips attacks Corbyn for being a white male.

    I'll get through the rest of the piece in short order, but it is so telling, and so sad, that she laughs off how she was raised, 'in no uncertain terms to hate Tories', and in a real, visceral kind of hatred. I don't remember my parents ever making a political comment in my presence (maybe they just weren't very political at all), and I'm sure I've missed out on something, but not having been raised to hate Tories/Labour feels much more relaxing. It's why I find it hard to understand people my own age who despise Thatcher in a manner of those who were fed Thatcher hate in their breast milk.
  • Pinkrose so how do we suddenly provide the 300,000houses..and what about the homeless we already have..Instead of criticisng why not make some sensible practical suggestions....maybe start with the accommodation problem I
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    HYUFD said:

    Dair said:

    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.

    Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.
    In the Highlands and Borders and Edinburgh maybe, Glasgow Corbyn rallies were packed out several times over
    Glasgow has a population of 650,000 and the metropolitan area has around 1.5m. Filling a hall with 1500 people for an one off event which is getting vast national broadcast coverage is not going to be very hard.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I guess Corbyn's likely convincing win tomorrow, will no doubt trigger a further avalanche of MSM anti Corbyn coverage. The problem with the no doubt relentless barrage of right wing MSM articles is that folks may become immune to it and even fair criticism of Corbyn will not resonate with the electorate, much has as happened with the SNP. The left wing MSM will no doubt fall into line as the ABC campaign has failed.

    As we saw with last night's scenes in Islington, Corbyn is likely to remain in campaign mode for some months to come. I'd anticipate him hitting the Uni campuses hard selling his anti establishment message. Come 2020, If Corbyn is still in situ, the student vote could be an interesting weapon as they can deploy their votes at home or Uni !!
  • What is really starting to annoy me about Blairite MP's and their media friends like McTernan and Hodges is the way they keep abusing and denigrating £3 supporters but in the next breath whine about how unfair poor little Liz Kendall has been treated. If Labour didn't want people to vote who are not full members of the party then why introduce this system? And if you remember it was the Blairites who cheered this system to the rafters when it was introduced by Miliband because they thought they were getting one over on the unions.

    I think im typical of the £3 supporter, not a Labour party member, never have been but did vote for them at 2015 and have voted for them before. Im not a infiltrator, Tory or hard Left. I voted for Corbyn no other preferences for the Leadership, Tom Watson for Deputy Leadership and in the London Mayoralty 1st preference, Diane Abbott, 2nd preference Sadiq Khan.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    If Corbyn is elected leader then I hope that the media will challenge some of his moral smugness.

    There is nothing particularly moral about leaving your country undefended, spending money that you don't have, or taxing hard-working families to support those who won't work. As for deceiving the public into believing that you can find £120million from the back of the fiscal sofa...

    I'm not claiming superiority for any set of ideas, but the idea of Corbyn claiming the moral high ground on any of these issues really flies in the face of reason.

    Incidentally, I believe he committed to having women as half his shadow cabinet; where are they all going to come from given the very small number of MPs that have pledged support for him?
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    I must admit I never thought Labour would turn itself back into the joke party it was in the 1980s...just proves the old maxim about history repeating itself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    Dair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dair said:

    Estobar said:

    "Everywhere else?" SeanT er like Scotland which just voted a resoundingly left-wing batch of MPs.

    Britain may appear comfortably middle class and right of centre ... to those living in Primrose Hill.

    Scotland voted for a very popular and competent party which is currently a pretty bog standard middle of the road centrist government. It isn't on the left, doesn't govern on the left.

    Corbyn will be utterly toxic in Scotland. His IRA fanatacism will be felt there more than anywhere else Labour stands for election.
    In the Highlands and Borders and Edinburgh maybe, Glasgow Corbyn rallies were packed out several times over
    Glasgow has a population of 650,000 and the metropolitan area has around 1.5m. Filling a hall with 1500 people for an one off event which is getting vast national broadcast coverage is not going to be very hard.
    Well you may say that but when was the last time a Labour leader in Scotland got people queing to hear him speak? Probably you have to go back to John Smith.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    calum said:

    I guess Corbyn's likely convincing win tomorrow, will no doubt trigger a further avalanche of MSM anti Corbyn coverage. The problem with the no doubt relentless barrage of right wing MSM articles is that folks may become immune to it and even fair criticism of Corbyn will not resonate with the electorate, much has as happened with the SNP. The left wing MSM will no doubt fall into line as the ABC campaign has failed.

    As we saw with last night's scenes in Islington, Corbyn is likely to remain in campaign mode for some months to come. I'd anticipate him hitting the Uni campuses hard selling his anti establishment message. Come 2020, If Corbyn is still in situ, the student vote could be an interesting weapon as they can deploy their votes at home or Uni !!

    Anyone at Uni today hearing his message will have graduated by 2020. They wont be students.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    calum said:

    The left wing MSM will no doubt fall into line as the ABC campaign has failed.

    Probably, though I wonder what will cause them to relapse - the concerns of the left on Corbyn won't go away unless he pulls a blinder and proves everyone very wrong.

  • glwglw Posts: 9,956
    HYUFD said:

    Indeed, he is fine as a troublemaking backbencher where he does not actually have to make any decisions, as leader the level of pressure is of a whole different order as IDS found out

    Corbyn is FAR worse than IDS, and he's no Hague, or Howard either. The closest comparison would be something like the Tories going mad and letting kippers install Bill Cash, but even Cash is nowhere near as bad as Corbyn.

    I honestly don't think there's a Tory MP who would be as bad as Corbyn.
  • Good evening, everyone.

    Depressing reading. Identity politics is vile.
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