politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How it could go wrong for LAB in South Shields: 1. The man
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Arrogance...assumes he can finish the job in 2 terms (if not 1)No_Offence_Alan said:
I think I've said this before - when G.W.Bush was accused by some of being the Anti-Christ -
Why would the Anti-Christ give himself term limits?0 -
Let's be honest, one Mick Philpott has more resonance than a hundred Polly or Owen Jones' articles, because its a real case and not a theoretical doo-dah.
Benefit-fiddling has always gone on and the extent will always be arguable (prosecutions are the ones you know about).
I remember working on the land (as a schoolboy) and having to knock off early so the gang van could bring us back to sign on. One morning in the summer both ends of our street were blocked off by police cars, and they went through our van checking on this particular fraud.
As a schoolboy, it was only an irritation, and there was no resentment. This was the mid-sixties, wage were low and the benefits were poor anyway. And land work was hard - there was no place to hide.
I've no idea what the current situation is, but I doubt that we're populated entirely by saints.
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I once said George W Bush was Beelzebub's page boy and nearly incited a riot at CiF.Charles said:
Arrogance...assumes he can finish the job in 2 terms (if not 1)No_Offence_Alan said:
I think I've said this before - when G.W.Bush was accused by some of being the Anti-Christ -
Why would the Anti-Christ give himself term limits?0 -
The £53 figure, is (and I'm sorry I haven't had time to read through this discussion - that's why I liked the "best rated" feature) the same, and I assume based on (?), JSA for under 25s. IDS would qualify for £67.50, but that aside, that's just JSA and excludes most notably housing benefit and any others that it might be fair to include.
As a student I could live on £53/week excluding housing, but only if I stuck to essentials - nothing left in the kitty for clothes, shoes, household items beyond toiletries, etc. I'll be honest, I'd be firstly at the mercy of events, and secondly, struggle to live on £53/week for more than about a month.
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Since you had both his posts explicitly in front of you to read then maybe you now know at least enough that his posts went FAR further than merely mentioning something a detective passed comment on but self-evidently didn't then go on to make the kind of lunatic direct connection and smear by association TCPB did.shipmate1 said:I just noted you made an accusation to bedroom tax and nastiness of TCPB (I don't know enough to know if he is or not) but his post talked about loss of Child Benefit
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Mr. Pork:
"Has he forgot there is no more likes on here that he always used to try and accumulate.
He should go and get the claptrap somewhere else."
I can't spot a counter-argument there myself, which is my point.
Dreadful but sadly not surprising news regarding the Philpotts.0 -
I don't know about "reversing all these cuts", but If they at least look like they are managing tough times fairly and competently, unlike Cameron's mob, they will probably be rewarded with a second term.shipmate1 said:I am looking forward to Labour being back in charge and reversing all these "cuts"
What would happen if they didn't?
The Tory problem is that they can't sell their cuts as fair and necessary. Their whole approach looks and feels like a messy, opportunistic, ideological assault on the state and the poor, and rich boys looking after their rich chums.
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One Mick Philpott will certinaly resonate more than anything Polly Toynbee or Owen Jones write. However, those on here and elsewhere who complain about Labour opportunism and mendacity might want to reflect on the idea of using a convicted child killer as a stick with which to beat the welfare system.CD13 said:
Let's be honest, one Mick Philpott has more resonance than a hundred Polly or Owen Jones' articles, because its a real case and not a theoretical doo-dah.
Benefit-fiddling has always gone on and the extent will always be arguable (prosecutions are the ones you know about).
I remember working on the land (as a schoolboy) and having to knock off early so the gang van could bring us back to sign on. One morning in the summer both ends of our street were blocked off by police cars, and they went through our van checking on this particular fraud.
As a schoolboy, it was only an irritation, and there was no resentment. This was the mid-sixties, wage were low and the benefits were poor anyway. And land work was hard - there was no place to hide.
I've no idea what the current situation is, but I doubt that we're populated entirely by saints.
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Please remind me if the Tories abolished the Minimum Wage. Or, did they repeal the Seat Belt legislation ? They were loud in their condemnation.shipmate1 said:I am looking forward to Labour being back in charge and reversing all these "cuts"
What would happen if they didn't?
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As I understand it, the Tories took the hit (before my time...). Which is what Labour will do with tuition fees, if the rumour is to be believed.surbiton said:Please remind me if the Tories abolished the Minimum Wage. Or, did they repeal the Seat Belt legislation ? They were loud in their condemnation.
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In support or because you were an apologist for evil?TheScreamingEagles said:
I once said George W Bush was Beelzebub's page boy and nearly incited a riot at CiF.0 -
Reading comments elsewhere today, I've come to the conclusion that like immigration, welfare reform is one of those topics where a sensible, rational debate isn't possible on the internet, and possibly in politics overall.SouthamObserver said:
One Mick Philpott will certinaly resonate more than anything Polly Toynbee or Owen Jones write. However, those on here and elsewhere who complain about Labour opportunism and mendacity might want to reflect on the idea of using a convicted child killer as a stick with which to beat the welfare system.CD13 said:
Let's be honest, one Mick Philpott has more resonance than a hundred Polly or Owen Jones' articles, because its a real case and not a theoretical doo-dah.
Benefit-fiddling has always gone on and the extent will always be arguable (prosecutions are the ones you know about).
I remember working on the land (as a schoolboy) and having to knock off early so the gang van could bring us back to sign on. One morning in the summer both ends of our street were blocked off by police cars, and they went through our van checking on this particular fraud.
As a schoolboy, it was only an irritation, and there was no resentment. This was the mid-sixties, wage were low and the benefits were poor anyway. And land work was hard - there was no place to hide.
I've no idea what the current situation is, but I doubt that we're populated entirely by saints.0 -
Sorry mate, you are just too boring to communicates wif derp derp derp.SouthamObserver said:those on here and elsewhere who complain about Labour opportunism and mendacity might want to reflect on the idea of using a convicted child killer as a stick with which to beat the welfare system.
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Cameron stopped all that NHS re-organisation chaos, though!surbiton said:
Please remind me if the Tories abolished the Minimum Wage. Or, did they repeal the Seat Belt legislation ? They were loud in their condemnation.shipmate1 said:I am looking forward to Labour being back in charge and reversing all these "cuts"
What would happen if they didn't?0 -
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Welfare reform: It's class war, but not in the way you'd expect
The Left appears to think welfare reform is sacrilegious – but to the dismay of hand-wringing commentators, those trapped on benefits take a very different view
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9966722/Welfare-reform-Its-class-war-but-not-in-the-way-youd-expect.html0 -
Carl - I'm not sure "looking like they are managing" will be enough? The Press will bang on and bang on with past comments and expectations will be more. If they prove no different to the Tories, it will come back to haunt them.0
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Mr. P, it isn't from yesterday's paper is it?
I'm not sure Kimi Raikkonen and team orders are necessarily a natural fit.0 -
Great post, Fenster. An early candidate for post of the year.Fenster said:Just went to my Facebook page and there is some serious vitriol against benefits claimants.
"The slobs have ruined this country".
This isn't the Daily Mail either. This is a snapshot of my Valleys friends; all familiar with shell-suits and miners' strikes and dancing around their handbags. Real people.
See, the liberal intellegensia like Toynbee and Owen Jones pretend to know the craic but WE live at the front end. We know and we see who the scroungers are.
In but a few paragraphs you have managed to unite of coalition of PB Lefties against you.
You need to assemble a local Valleys team of hard working worthies and challenge the PB ideological wimps to a game of Rugby.
The Fenster All Comers Benefits Match.
All the Reds need to do now is work out in which positions each should play.
Southam Observer is a natural captain. His weakness is that he might start playing for the Blues when no one is looking. Best play him at scrum half so he can switch the direction of play at will.
Pork loves a good scrummage in the mud and is prize second row material.
Mark Senior hasn't seen a full meal in decades so will need to be placed far out on the furthest wing to avoid injury.
Yorkcity is good sold Northern stock. Ideal for the front row.
Carl appears good with his foot so can play fly half. Just keep it out of his mouth and its owner away from any strategic decisions.
Have I left anyone out?
Oh yes, tim.
He can be the ball.
Edit: hucks67 would have qualified to play had he not been suspended for arguing with the referee.
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MarkSenior said:
Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
Which bit is made up? Would you like me to copy and post the thread? It's probably gone on a few levels now. I'll check.MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
You see Mr Senior, I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road.
You disdain me as someone dishing out apocryphals because you are scared. The system is fecked and breaking this idiotic welfarism culture will be hugely popular. And popular amongst the working class more than anyone else. The very voters the LIb Dems and Labour are trying to suck up to. You can keep the workshy. Meanwhile the Tories can attempt to hoover votes from those they've helped put a foot onto a ladder.0 -
"I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road."
Oh dear.0 -
Osbrowne leading the charge with a Romney master strategy on welfare.
How he's going to pull that one off when the toxic liability will be hiding during the next election campaign (just like the last time) doesn't seem to even have occurred to the tea party tories. As usual.
The quiet man who the tories dumped after his 'inspirational leadership' racks up 300,000 on an e-petition quicker than an MP can claim expenses for bluetooth headset.
Like this one.Iain Duncan Smith has claimed he could live on £53 per week - the amount given to some benefit claimants. The Work and Pensions Secretary said he could survive on £7.57 per day if he "had to", as he defended a raft of cuts to welfare payments coming into force today.
He'd have to cut back a bit if he did so. According to his parliamentary expenses, he spent £110 - two week's worth of benefits - on a Bose bluetooth headset for his car, and another £12.42 on a USB cable (I mean, come on, who spends more than a fiver on a USB cable?). His monthly phone bill has been over £53 every month in the latest financial year, so that's another week each month he can't eat, travel, heat his house or, really do anything. And given he can claim for travel, he may have forgotten that that £5.30 he spent on taking one tube trip within his constituency also comes out of the £53. Just ten of them and he'd go hungry.0 -
What a non story, the local party will select it's candidate in a few days time from a short list provided by HQ.
All candidates in all constituencies are locally selected so what point are you trying to make or are you just pontificating for the sake of it. Come on get a grip0 -
The point is that competence and fairness in managing austerity would mark them out as very different from Cameron and his Tories.shipmate1 said:Carl - I'm not sure "looking like they are managing" will be enough? The Press will bang on and bang on with past comments and expectations will be more. If they prove no different to the Tories, it will come back to haunt them.
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Which Labour seats do you expect the Tories to win in 2015 as result of this policy?Fenster said:MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
Which bit is made up? Would you like me to copy and post the thread? It's probably gone on a few levels now. I'll check.MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
You see Mr Senior, I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road.
You disdain me as someone dishing out apocryphals because you are scared. The system is fecked and breaking this idiotic welfarism culture will be hugely popular. And popular amongst the working class more than anyone else. The very voters the LIb Dems and Labour are trying to suck up to. You can keep the workshy. Meanwhile the Tories can attempt to hoover votes from those they've helped put a foot onto a ladder.
Why aren't you alerting the authorities to the abuses of the system that you are familiar with?
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@Mikesmithson
Any chance of a new thread that might trigger a rare non partisan debate on PB ??????
Think this thread has been done to death, with the usual boring PB Tories v Tim. It starts off ok, but just drags on.0 -
I think with the £10,000 cap in place (which, if I've done my sums right, is slightly less than the minimum wage) the government should consider a negative rate of tax for the lowest paid. That is to say, you submit your earnings through PAYE, and the government tops them up. I'm not saying that it should necessarily be adopted, but it would have some significant benefits (it could also replace particular types of tax credits) - it would affect people earning under £10,000 which a further rise in PA would not; it would incentivise work, fraud (as far as I've considered it) would fundamentally be the same as current tax fraud. (Over-reporting your income would have all sorts of consequences for other benefits, etc., as well.)
Perhaps PBers can point out some flaws.
Of course Lynsey Hanley would hate it
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Mmmmm indeed.....
"Eighteen months ago, shadow minister Tessa Jowell unveiled a report which called for older people — so-called ‘empty nesters’ — to be taxed out of their homes.
The idea was that this would free up accommodation for young families — precisely the intention of the latest reform.
The report, endorsed by Jowell, said: ‘While younger families are increasingly being squeezed into small flats and under-sized houses, older people are often rattling around in big houses with many bedrooms standing empty, often for years.’ "
Talk about pots and kettles. When Labour wanted to encourage people to downsize it was called ‘fairness’. When the Coalition does the same, it’s condemned as yet another example of the ‘savage cuts’.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2302481/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Now-day-April-Fools-Day.html#ixzz2PLC4AR4M
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Why have you not reported these fraudsters or the most flagrant of them ? You can even do it anonymously .Fenster said:MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
Which bit is made up? Would you like me to copy and post the thread? It's probably gone on a few levels now. I'll check.MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
You see Mr Senior, I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road.
You disdain me as someone dishing out apocryphals because you are scared. The system is fecked and breaking this idiotic welfarism culture will be hugely popular. And popular amongst the working class more than anyone else. The very voters the LIb Dems and Labour are trying to suck up to. You can keep the workshy. Meanwhile the Tories can attempt to hoover votes from those they've helped put a foot onto a ladder.
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Miliband's selection suggests its not always as simple as that....the local party will be very alert to any NEC shenaniganseckythumper said:What a non story, the local party will select it's candidate in a few days time from a short list provided by HQ.
All candidates in all constituencies are locally selected so what point are you trying to make or are you just pontificating for the sake of it. Come on get a grip
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Fenster said:
You see Mr Senior, I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road.
*falls off cat crying with laughter*
Just the thing to lighten the mood.
It's like Look back in anger crossed with a harrowing Mike Leigh script.
Superb!
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"... welfare reform is one of those topics where a sensible, rational debate isn't possible on the internet ..."
Not on this site anyway, but then so few subjects are these days. Shame really.0 -
I don't know who the moron is that Pork is quoting, but suggesting that IDS couldn't survive on benefits because the expenses he incurs in the course of his employment exceed what he would receive in benefits, is one of the stupidest comments ever posted on PB.
And there is considerable competition.0 -
Fecking hell, not another soppy-faced wannabe from Labour HQ. Mr YorkCity himself.Yorkcity said:Mark said
"Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel . "
Has he forgot there is no more likes on here that he always used to try and accumulate.
He should go and get the claptrap somewhere else.
.
Come over to my village my friend. Have the balls to leave your gilded little sanctuary and enter the ghetto here in South Wales. I'll show you a few tricks. A few copper-bottomed tricks, which work a treat. If you don't believe benefit fraud isn't at full throttle then come spend a few hours with me.
And as for your feeble efforts to swat me away as some uber, like-seeking Tory, why don't you take the time to read my previous posts (all of them, go on) and then re-evaluate what type of political supporter I am. Because I am very sure that I'm more liberal than you and I am also intelligent enough not to parrot every single party line given to me by Labour HQ for fear Ed Balls might frighten me to death with his 20 yard scare.
And anyway, welfare reform isn't (and shouldn't be) a divisive party-lines issue. It should be, as I've said below, based on FAIRNESS. Unfortunately, many, many people took the piss out of the system and cost those who were desperately in need of help, less help. Also unfortunately for you sanctimonious, unthinking, unworldly and probably sexually-repressed Labour lackeys who try to defend the mice on your front bench, most of these benefit fraudsters are probably Labour supporters too. Because they know your party is the one they are most likely to get away with it under. At the expense of the rest of us.
There are decent, excellent, reforming, talented people in the Labour party. Unfortunately for them, their representation on the Labour front bench is getting thinner. If existent at all.
And btw, I'm 35. I've been in work since I was 17. The fraudulency began around the late 90s, and I was still growing up then (in my own mind anyway).0 -
Indeed, Mr. LOLes, (ahem).0
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SO,
You can never expect logic where politics is involved. It's an arms race to the bottom.
A righty ... the scale of benefit fraud is too high. A lefty ... it doesn't exist, and anyway, the bankers blah, blah, blah.
Todays Micky Mouse argument about statistics is an example. It depends on when you set the beginning and end of your measurement period. I'm nearly always asleep between midnight and 6am. Conversely, I'm nearly always awake in the daytime. A politician would draw two different conclusions about my laziness from this.
I was going to suggest we need more scientists as MPs but the climate change debate has also gone juvenile.
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"Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel."
In areas where the local industry was all off-shored or closed down in one go so whole communities went into long-term unemployment all at the same time the old shame culture held together by peer pressure broke down and gradually changed into the shameless one - also via peer pressure. There's a percentage like that elsewhere as well but not as high as some people seem to think.
This greatly annoys the sort of low-income workers that are never seen on the telly because it would mess up the subhumanizing that's been ongoing for a while now.
The mistake the Tories will make won't be pointing this reality out but extrapolating it too far and taking it over the "fair" line because they don't know where it is (or don't care).0 -
How Scottish trade unions are shifting in favour of independence
The SNP could use Labour’s promise to maintain coalition austerity policies to increase union support.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/how-scottish-trade-unions-are-shifting-favour-independence
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"Older people should be taxed out of their family homes to free up space for younger generations, says a report backed by Labour.
It argues that 'empty nesters' in their 60s are taking up too much room and should be 'encouraged' by a new 'land tax' to downsize to smaller homes.
Labour MP Tessa Jowell sponsored the report's launch in a Commons hospitality room yesterday, saying the current situation ran against Ed Miliband's vision for Britain.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050800/Over-60-bedroom-blockers-taxed-homes.html#ixzz2PLEOSJUb0 -
Then let him.Charles said:
Which is exactly why he said he could "if [he] had to"
He didn't say it would be easy, or an enjoyable lifestyle, or that it wouldn't involve sacrifice. Just that he "could".
300,000 and rising think it might be a good idea for "we're all in this together" to actually mean something rather than the inept PR slogan of a bunch of out of touch incompetents.
If you posture like a peacock in politics, don't complain when you get called out on it.
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I increasingly feel that this referendum could be a lot closer than the polls are saying. Mix in another a year of Westminster enforced austerity and TeamScotland pulling a TeamGB after the Glasgow games and you could see something happen.Tykejohnno said:How Scottish trade unions are shifting in favour of independence
The SNP could use Labour’s promise to maintain coalition austerity policies to increase union support.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/how-scottish-trade-unions-are-shifting-favour-independence
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Mr. Pork, he doesn't have to. He's got a job, he works long hours, he gets paid a decent wage.
As for petitions, one in America got sufficient backing as to warrant an official response. As it turns out, the US will not be seeking to build a Death Star.0 -
The Tories really are so far out of touch with the country it is unreal.
That's what happens when the party tries to pander to lonely old white men on the internet. Destroyed the Republicans and will destroy the Tories too.0 -
Another one who seemingly has no problem with equating those on benefits to child killers I see.ShambLOLes said:is one of the stupidest comments ever posted on PB.
And there is considerable competition.
Surprise, surprise.
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And apologies to Mike and the moderators. I haven't had a full-on mob-swarm from the lefties before so I felt as though I needed to defend myself.
The quotes I put on line were bona fide, genuine. Probably inflamed as a result of an FB posting combined with the video of that woman ranting about her benefit decreases costing her fags.
The point is, even I was surprised at the vitriol now being dished out at benefit scroungers who are fit to work. The squeeze on peoples' money, whether working or not, is causing an uptick in agitation, and those who are genuinely frauding the system are starting to get targetted. I happen to think they've gotten away with it too long.
I know for certain that people are finding it harder to get away with things under the coalition. My friend is a plumber and he's religiously putting everything through the books at present for fear of being busted; avoiding cvash jobs.. If the squeeze is on then that's a good thing, because fraud is fraud, whatever way you dress it up.0 -
I backed Yes to win last year.Jonathan said:
I increasingly feel that this referendum could be a lot closer than the polls are saying. Mix in another a year of Westminster enforced austerity and TeamScotland pulling a TeamGB after the Glasgow games and you could see something happen.Tykejohnno said:How Scottish trade unions are shifting in favour of independence
The SNP could use Labour’s promise to maintain coalition austerity policies to increase union support.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/how-scottish-trade-unions-are-shifting-favour-independence
I'm quietly confident it could be a winner.
The No side, really need to talk about the positive side of the Union, rather than the negative side of Independence.0 -
Sounds like a good idea.CarlottaVance said:"Older people should be taxed out of their family homes to free up space for younger generations, says a report backed by Labour.
It argues that 'empty nesters' in their 60s are taking up too much room and should be 'encouraged' by a new 'land tax' to downsize to smaller homes.
Labour MP Tessa Jowell sponsored the report's launch in a Commons hospitality room yesterday, saying the current situation ran against Ed Miliband's vision for Britain.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050800/Over-60-bedroom-blockers-taxed-homes.html#ixzz2PLEOSJUb
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Mr. Jonathan, I've long been of the view that *if* Scotland did vote to separate that would massively benefit (at the next General Election) the SNP and, to a lesser extent, the Conservatives. When people vote with negotiation of partition in mind the Scots will want the nationalists at the table, and I doubt the English will want to party of Brown and Darling negotiating on their behalf.0
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Why? That would be pointless. People should get paid for the work they do. You can argue about what the market rate should be for a cabinet minister, but it's not the same rate as unemployment benefit.Mick_Pork said:
Then let him.
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300,000 and rising think it might be a good idea for "we're all in this together" to actually mean something rather than the inept PR slogan of a bunch of out of touch incompetents.
Actually, not really. It's a p1ss poor effort, redolent of the fact that this is a pointless partisan stunt. When 40% of the voters are supposed to support Labour, getting less than 1% to sign something that takes literally zero effort is pathetic.
He wasn't posturing. He answered a straight question with a straight answer. You could reasonably argue it was a missed opportunity, but it wasn't posturing.
If you posture like a peacock in politics, don't complain when you get called out on it.0 -
That's spectacularly out of touch for someone criticizing others for being out of touch.IOS said:The Tories really are so far out of touch with the country it is unreal.
That's what happens when the party tries to pander to lonely old white men on the internet. Destroyed the Republicans and will destroy the Tories too.
The Tory/Republican problem is they are pandering to their big business donors and *not* pandering to their actual voters.0 -
One for the manifesto then!carl said:
Sounds like a good idea.
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Fenster
Come to York you might like it.
Labour HQ get a life.
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Then he shouldn't have postured on it, should he? Unless you think it's a jolly good idea for the out of touch chumocracy to keep this Romney like level of idiocy up.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pork, he doesn't have to.
Seriously? That's the best you have? You think we don't remember when the PB tories were bleating about the hanging petition? We can compare stats on that if you like.Morris_Dancer said:one in America got sufficient backing as to warrant an official response. As it turns out, the US will not be seeking to build a Death Star.
You don't think everyone here knows if a petition on a right wing issue got that many people behind it that fast the PB tories would NEVER shut up about it?
Pull the other one chum.
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It really is the elephant in the room when contemplating the 2015 outcome.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, I've long been of the view that *if* Scotland did vote to separate that would massively benefit (at the next General Election) the SNP and, to a lesser extent, the Conservatives. When people vote with negotiation of partition in mind the Scots will want the nationalists at the table, and I doubt the English will want to party of Brown and Darling negotiating on their behalf.
What an amazing period of politics we are about to enter...
We could see UKIP 'win' the 2014 Euros, Scotland leave the UK, Cameron become the last British PM, and then be forced to negotiate an exit from the EU.
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It was pandering to bigots that hated immigrants and any benefits etc etc
Same in this country with Europe, immigration and welfare. You start off by going for the cheap populist vote. But all you do is create a monster you can never satisfy.
Hence why UKIP keep on rising and rising.0 -
Hopefully. Though it will take a lot more than that to clean up the housing mess once the new Government takes office.CarlottaVance said:
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Benefit fraud is a crime. Taking advantage of the system isn't. Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance isn't. Fiddling your expenses is a crime. Claiming expenses within - if not in 'the spirit' of - the rules isn't.
People, on the whole, size up the risks and go for what they can get. That's the same whatever your 'status' and whoever you vote for.0 -
If Scotland votes for Independence, they wouldn't leave immediately, I think the plan is by 2016.Jonathan said:
It really is the elephant in the room when contemplating the 2015 outcome.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, I've long been of the view that *if* Scotland did vote to separate that would massively benefit (at the next General Election) the SNP and, to a lesser extent, the Conservatives. When people vote with negotiation of partition in mind the Scots will want the nationalists at the table, and I doubt the English will want to party of Brown and Darling negotiating on their behalf.
What an amazing period of politics we are about to enter...
We could see UKIP 'win' the 2014 Euros, Scotland leave the UK, Cameron become the last British PM, and then be forced to negotiate an exit from the EU.
We could have an interesting election in 2015.
Ed becomes PM, purely thanks to Scottish MPs, then come May 2016, his majority is wiped out just like that, and Cameron becomes PM of Carry on UK.
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They aren't all fraudsters you dimwit. These are people with bad backs, and depression, or acute anxiety, or ME, or white finger or whatever other spurious illness is de rigeur.MarkSenior said:
Why have you not reported these fraudsters or the most flagrant of them ? You can even do it anonymously .Fenster said:MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
Which bit is made up? Would you like me to copy and post the thread? It's probably gone on a few levels now. I'll check.MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
You see Mr Senior, I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road.
You disdain me as someone dishing out apocryphals because you are scared. The system is fecked and breaking this idiotic welfarism culture will be hugely popular. And popular amongst the working class more than anyone else. The very voters the LIb Dems and Labour are trying to suck up to. You can keep the workshy. Meanwhile the Tories can attempt to hoover votes from those they've helped put a foot onto a ladder.
The guy with the caravanette is well known. He had a motorbike accident about 25 years back and had his leg shortened as a result. A genuine injury, a nasty op. He has never worked since, ever. And has claimed (successfully) for everything. It doesn't stop him going out drinking and boogeying on the dancefloor each weekend, and it never will. Socially, he's a nice enough guy too. But he has conned the system for God knows how much.0 -
Short memory. It was hugging gay huskies that led to the Ukip surge.IOS said:It was pandering to bigots that hated immigrants and any benefits etc etc
Same in this country with Europe, immigration and welfare. You start off by going for the cheap populist vote. But all you do is create a monster you can never satisfy.
Hence why UKIP keep on rising and rising.0 -
*chuckles*Charles said:
Why? That would be pointless.Mick_Pork said:
Then let him.
Sure, sure. Pointless for a politician to actually show you mean what you say. Course it is.Mick_Pork said:300,000 and rising think it might be a good idea for "we're all in this together" to actually mean something rather than the inept PR slogan of a bunch of out of touch incompetents.
If it's got a Cameroon like yourself this upset then that speaks volumes.Charles said:Actually, not really. It's a p1ss poor effort, redolent of the fact that this is a pointless partisan stunt. When 40% of the voters are supposed to support Labour, getting less than 1% to sign something that takes literally zero effort is pathetic.
That 300,000 is a good deal more than 10 times the vote IDS was elected on in case you were wondering.
Is he doing it? No? Then it's posturing.Charles said:He wasn't posturing. He answered a straight question with a straight answer. You could reasonably argue it was a missed opportunity, but it wasn't posturing.
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Starving elderly English people to death.carl said:
Hopefully. Though it will take a lot more than that to clean up the housing mess once the new Government takes office.CarlottaVance said:
Freezing elderly English people to death.
Turfing them out of their homes.
Beginning to look a bit like a pogrom.0 -
? I find it difficult understanding you. I can only imagine you have severe difficulties enjoying normal relations with people. For that you have my sympathy.Mick_Pork said:Fenster said:
You see Mr Senior, I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road.
*falls off cat crying with laughter*
Just the thing to lighten the mood.
It's like Look back in anger crossed with a harrowing Mike Leigh script.
Superb!
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330,00 now and still rising.
Great idea wasn't it IDS? 0 -
Well the Daily Mail have only gone and done it
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/319193925019643904/photo/10 -
He's already answered you twit:-Mick_Pork said:330,00 now and still rising.
Great idea wasn't it IDS?
Benefit reforms: Iain Duncan Smith 'has lived on breadline'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22006841
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What's labour problem with pensioners ;-)MrJones said:
Starving elderly English people to death.carl said:
Hopefully. Though it will take a lot more than that to clean up the housing mess once the new Government takes office.CarlottaVance said:
Freezing elderly English people to death.
Turfing them out of their homes.
Beginning to look a bit like a pogrom.
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I'm certain it's not the only thing you have great trouble understanding. What with 'knowing at least hundreds of people who are at it'. A terrible burden on your memory isn't it? That and your harrowing life on the "coal face".Fenster said:? I find it difficult understanding you.
For that you have my laughter.
Well we can't all have the active lifestyle with the angry imaginary friends on facebook you appear to enjoy, can we?Fenster said:I can only imagine you have severe difficulties enjoying normal relations with people.
Try harder, this is painfully bad stuff, even for a PB tory.
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1. I doubt the Tories will gain much in the marginals through this policy. And I dont care about that. This Tory government has been relatively poor and I have no emotional interest in their GE2015 prospects. What I do care about is that balance is brought to the welfare system to a) make it fairer, especially for those genuinely in need and b) that being in work ALWAYS pays more than being out of work. Because that system of making work pay will incrementally benefit the country inperpetuity.SouthamObserver said:
Which Labour seats do you expect the Tories to win in 2015 as result of this policy?Fenster said:MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
Which bit is made up? Would you like me to copy and post the thread? It's probably gone on a few levels now. I'll check.MarkSenior said:Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel .
You see Mr Senior, I live here at the coalface. Not in some cuddly, molley-coddled English hamlet where teenage cub-scouts help old dears cross the road.
You disdain me as someone dishing out apocryphals because you are scared. The system is fecked and breaking this idiotic welfarism culture will be hugely popular. And popular amongst the working class more than anyone else. The very voters the LIb Dems and Labour are trying to suck up to. You can keep the workshy. Meanwhile the Tories can attempt to hoover votes from those they've helped put a foot onto a ladder.
Why aren't you alerting the authorities to the abuses of the system that you are familiar with?
2. As mentioned elsewhere, not all the 'abuses' are illegal or easy to nail as fraud. There is a clever system being played by people, doctors, solicitors and social-workers where benefits can be gained for a variety of hard-to-rule-out ailments. Acute anxiety, ME, depression are all easy numbers. I know a boy who was told to get a job or lose benefits (there is nothing wrong with him, he's just a lazy bastard who smokes tumps of weed) and he played the suicide card. Got his mother (also on benefits with depression) to throw in a few tears, say he'd tried taking an overdose etc, and that the thought of work would kill him, and hey presto, he was signed back on as too ill to work. But whay would you do if you were a doctor or social worker? If he'd gone and killed himself they'd feel very bad about it.. It's a tough, testy, manipulative and clever underworld out there. I live among it. I know boys on disability who play rugby. It's just the way it is. Get caught and you get in serious trouble. It's all a game.
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OwenJones84 The utter shameless, grotesque, vile mentality of a "newspaper" that uses the killing of 6 kids for political purposes and to inflame hatred
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And he's been answered back, 330,000 times you amusing chap.Next said:
He's already answered you twit:
A cunning stunt indeed for IDS. Or something along those lines.
The quiet man just doesn't know when to shut up, does he?Vijay Singh Riyait @vriyait 41m
The most popular online petition ever, to get IDS to live on £53 a week http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2002/12_december/19/newsnight_ids_cv.shtml … - he now thinks he was down & out once!0 -
Tyke
York got their fist win in 17 games.
If they get relegated , I think they will fold, from what I have heard.0 -
So Crosby is helping to fan the flames of UKIP.
When will they learn? You create a monster on the right you can never satisfy. So you feed it more and more until you are nowhere near the center ground and then you get beat.
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Last year I said I wanted a general strike, as it had been ages since we last had one.
Looks like we may get one
Unite, Britain’s biggest trade union, is urging other unions to join forces to stage a 24-hour general strike in what it privately admits would be an “explicitly political” attack against the government.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/23168ae6-9ba3-11e2-8485-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2PLMhWphw0 -
PickardJE Exclusive: private papers show that Unite, Britain's biggest union, is backing "explicitly political" GENERAL STRIKE ft.com/cms/s/0/23168a…
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Since it was the Thatcher government which introduced the compulsory seat-belt legislation, that seems rather unlikely, unless I'm going completely gaga:surbiton said:
Please remind me if the Tories abolished the Minimum Wage. Or, did they repeal the Seat Belt legislation ? They were loud in their condemnation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/31/newsid_2505000/2505871.stm0 -
Mr. Jonathan, a very good summary of the interesting times in which we live (and following the financial crisis, Hung Parliament and Arab Spring, of course).0
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The people I quoted are real and the quotes are real. They are online now.Mick_Pork said:
I'm certain it's not the only thing you have great trouble understanding. What with 'knowing at least hundreds of people who are at it'. A terrible burden on your memory isn't it? That and your harrowing life on the "coal face".Fenster said:? I find it difficult understanding you.
For that you have my laughter.
Well we can't all have the active lifestyle with the angry imaginary friends on facebook you appear to enjoy, can we?Fenster said:I can only imagine you have severe difficulties enjoying normal relations with people.
Try harder, this is painfully bad stuff, even for a PB tory.
My grandfather and my (mother's brother) uncle were both miners, and lost their jobs after the 80 strikes. My Gramp worked over 40 years for the NCB.
I didn't vote at the last election because I was on holiday.
If my belief in the legalisation of drugs, a desire for Palestinian state, free child care, reform of the House of Lords and a reduction in the amount of MPs to below 400 marks me out as a PB Tory then fine.
At least I am willing to make clear what I believe in, rather than continuously infect the board with my ridiculing of everyone else for what they believe in. You're a pub bore.
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It's a shame the kippers and Farage might eventually have to explain those rather puzzling words he is alleged to have used to describe certain voters.tim said:@IOS
There have been four boosts to UKIP.
http://iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/question-nigel-farage-must-answer.html
Curious that this has popped up again just before the May locals, isn't it?
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Hope not,hope you stay up,we yorkies have to stick together,a great win against fellow strugglers Plymouth,a real six pointer that ;-)Yorkcity said:Tyke
York got their fist win in 17 games.
If they get relegated , I think they will fold, from what I have heard.
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I have to agree with that really. I know it is massive news and it has to be reported. But the deaths of children is hard for me to think about, especially when I have two young children sleeping soundly right now. It's just awful.Tykejohnno said:OwenJones84 The utter shameless, grotesque, vile mentality of a "newspaper" that uses the killing of 6 kids for political purposes and to inflame hatred
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Panorama special on the Derby fire.0
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benedictbrogan EXC Theresa May has told the Cabinet privately she is ready to speed up visa process for Chinese visitors telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/…
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Your staunch commitment to those issues you hold dear and believe in would inspire even your coal working forebears.Fenster said:
I didn't vote at the last election because I was on holiday.
You also appear to have trouble working out what is boring and what is not going by your amusingly confused attitude to replying to posters.
I'd say you were eccentric but that much is evident from your posts anyway.
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That Mail front page is a shocker.0
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Thanks Tyke
If it happens believe we would be first club to get promotion to the football league then get relegated the year after.
From what I have heard all the finances and the new ground are based on the status of staying in the league.
That is why they went for the new manager Nigel Worthington.0 -
Miss Carola, it does appear that they've bitten off more than they can chew [perhaps reminiscent of the badly written letter in the Sun].0
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Anyway, I'm off to bed with Napoleon. Night, everyone.0
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Then I'm afraid you have me completely wrong. Perhaps I'm right of centre on some economic issues, but much further left of centre on social ones. Definitely not eccentric either, and I don't want to leave the EU. My A-Level History and study of the Second World War steers me away from that.Mick_Pork said:
Your staunch commitment to those issues you hold dear and believe in would inspire even your coal working forebears.Fenster said:
I didn't vote at the last election because I was on holiday.
You also appear to have trouble working out what is boring and what is not going by your amusingly confused attitude to replying to posters.
I'd say you were eccentric but that much is evident from your posts anyway.
I have no idea where you stand. You are too busy doing your passive/aggressive digs on other voters to reveal any studied policies of your own.0 -
I took a sharp intake of breath when I first saw it.Carola said:That Mail front page is a shocker.
Possibly their most controversial front page since their Stephen Lawrence murderers front page
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They're only saying what some on here seem to think.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Carola, it does appear that they've bitten off more than they can chew [perhaps reminiscent of the badly written letter in the Sun].
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