I think the more interesting point from that quote is that the £6k fees cap may not be in the Labour manifesto.
Of course it won't. Not a chance: this is one of the zillions of coalition policies which Labour will end up supporting, having told us for months how terrible they are. Lord only knows why Ed M quite unnecessarily boxed himself into a corner on this.
Actually, it's obvious why - his usual combination of opportunism and naivety.
Every time a Conservative spokesman has appeared on a news outlet today they have described welfare dependance as introduced by the last government an 'act of cruelty'.
Someone obviously thinks it's a winning slogan and has instructed all Tory spokespeople to use it.
The essence of a slogan is to combine a memorable line with the product name which hopefully puts a positive gloss on your product "Things go better with Coke" "Go to work on an Egg" "Beanz meanz Heinze" 'Welfare an act of cruelty" (say Tories)
Whoever is behind it is quite simply a marketing illiterate. To have 'Act of cruelty-Tory-and welfare dependance' in the same sentence is insane but to usher in the biggest social security changes for several generations with it is political suicide.
A Labour government won't reverse most of these benefit changes because they know the country couldn't afford to go on in the way it was before. Remember it was Liam Byrne who said there was no money left.
No wonder chris_g00 and Richard Tyndall and others don't post here any longer. What a tiresome and dreary discussion that's filled with zero intelligence from the Left.
Reading LabourList or whatever carries more IQ pixels = far too many lefties are really letting themselves down on PB if this is their level of *debate*.
There's plenty of good left wing posters on here: Neil, Southam, Nick Palmer, Edmund, etc.
Excuse me, but Neil is a pbTory: I express outrage on his behalf.
I'd add Jonathan to that list - he does politics, and knows his stuff. But where has Nicomachus (sic)/poster formely known as G: he's done a bunk and must be apprehended.
Osborne is a minister, he can do things, so he has the tools to alter perception, if he knows how to use the tools.
You appear to think that's a good thing. It is not. Osbrowne gifted little Ed and labour their 10 point lead with the omnishambles. Congrats. A AAA master strategy of genius.
If this is a serious policy then don't put the tory poster boy for out of touch incompetence in the front line posturing like a peacock on it. That's inept electioneering built on a hugely complex policy that hardly looks like it will stand up to much rigorous scrutiny in the months and years to come.
Who'd have thought that hammering the very poorest whilst handing a huge bonanza to the very richest would cause political problems for a Government of Upper Class Tory Millionaires?
No wonder chris_g00 and Richard Tyndall and others don't post here any longer. What a tiresome and dreary discussion that's filled with zero intelligence from the Left.
Reading LabourList or whatever carries more IQ pixels = far too many lefties are really letting themselves down on PB if this is their level of *debate*.
There's plenty of good left wing posters on here: Neil, Southam, Nick Palmer, Edmund, etc.
Excuse me, but Neil is a pbTory: I express outrage on his behalf.
I'd add Jonathan to that list - he does politics, and knows his stuff. But where has Nicomachus (sic)/poster formely known as G: he's done a bunk and must be apprehended.
There's plenty. James Kelly, for all his critics, often writes very interesting posts, if we let him off the odd extreme claim he makes on a certain issue. Polruan and Professor Davey are two more.
Who'd have thought that hammering the very poorest whilst handing a huge bonanza to the very richest would cause political problems for a Government of Upper Class Tory Millionaires?
How peculiar. I was having a brief twitter back and forth (entirely civil) about the cost of the Royal Family (Civil List, Crown Estates etc) and seem unable to reply to the last response. Hmm.
Who'd have thought that hammering the very poorest whilst handing a huge bonanza to the very richest would cause political problems for a Government of Upper Class Tory Millionaires?
You must be mistaken. The quiet man is turning up the volume again.
Duncan Smith slams £53 petition
Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith has insisted he knows what is like to be on the breadline as he dismissed a petition calling for him to live on £53 a week as a "complete stunt".
O/T What's that red object to D Milliband's rear? Is it an anti-rust painted Lunar Excursion Module (LEM) - suggesting he's on another planet? Is it a giant T-even 'phage particle, ready to infect the Deadwood Party? Is it a Life Guard station - essential when Socialists attempt to swim against the tide of public opinion? Is it a lighthouse beacon - essential to warn innocent travellers on the stormy seas of the rocky policies ahead?
O/T What's that red object to D Milliband's rear? Is it an anti-rust painted Lunar Excursion Module (LEM) - suggesting he's on another planet? Is it a giant T-even 'phage particle, ready to infect the Deadwood Party? Is it a Life Guard station - essential when Socialists attempt to swim against the tide of public opinion? Is it a lighthouse beacon - essential to warn innocent travellers on the stormy seas of the rocky policies ahead?
Pork - do you believe that these signatures are a spontaneous uprising or a huge circle jerk inflated via unions and other leftist vested interest social media routes ?
Pork - do you believe that these signatures are a spontaneous uprising or a huge circle jerk inflated via unions and other leftist vested interest social media routes ?
Reported in the Court today is that the child murderer Philpott's actions were a reaction to one of his girlfriends leaving with some of the children. That cut the child benefit money that came into the house which funded his lifestyle..... Truly shameless.
Rentoul is just a bitter Blairite drone. That said, it is going to be vital that the next labour cabinet brings new people and new ideas to the table. Balls has to be moved from the Treasury.
(OT) There has been quite a bit of kerfuffle on Twitter today about my defection. There was hardly any yesterday. I wonder why? Maybe everybody was so laid-back because it was bank holiday.
(OT) There has been quite a bit of kerfuffle on Twitter today about my defection. There was hardly any yesterday. I wonder why? Maybe everybody was so laid-back because it was bank holiday.
It wasn't merely a bank holiday, but April Fools Day.
But welcome to the Tory party, you'll fit right in.
MickPork, I read that story, heard R4 News and watched the BBC News report. What's your view on killing kids in a bid to re-gain control of other kids and their child benefit?
MickPork, I read that story, heard R4 News and watched the BBC News report. What's your view on killing kids in a bid to re-gain control of other kids and their child benefit?
He was an evil bastard who botched an obscene plan to win custody.
Your demented attempt to draw a straight line between that and the bedroom tax via a government minister's own words is so beyond the pale it would be staggering but for the fact that we are used to seeing it on here from PB tories. You must be exceedingly proud of yourself.
How would some of the key people who founded the Fabians and the Labour party view the 2013 products of the welfare state such as the 17 kids from Philpott?
These are the battle lines for GE 2015 and beyond.
MickPork, I read that story, heard R4 News and watched the BBC News report. What's your view on killing kids in a bid to re-gain control of other kids and their child benefit?
He was an evil bastard who botched an obscene plan to win custody.
Your demented attempt to draw a straight line between that and the bedroom tax via a government minister's own words is so beyond the pale it would be staggering but for the fact that we are used to seeing it on here from PB tories. You must be exceedingly proud of yourself.
There is some nonsense posted on this site, but TCPB's comments have to be at the summit of the sickness pyramid.
@oflynnexpress: RT @BethRigby: Populus poll for Tories show 88pc of people support benefit cap. Probably nearer 100pc in Morrisons distribution centre. #perfectsoundbites
He was an evil bastard who botched an obscene plan to win custody. Your demented attempt to draw a straight line between that and the bedroom tax via a government minister's own words is so beyond the pale it would be staggering but for the fact that we are used to seeing it on here from PB tories. You must be exceedingly proud of yourself.
I have made no mention of the bedroom tax, please withdraw that slur.
How would some of the key people who founded the Fabians and the Labour party view the 2013 products of the welfare state such as the 17 kids from Philpott?
These are the battle lines for GE 2015 and beyond.
Good luck with claiming that welfare turns people into child killers.
What I find so noteworthy is the complete lack of condemnation from those guardians of moral decency on here who are usually so quick to jump down the throat of left of centre posters they deem to be making offensive comments. The silence is deafening.
"It was when superstores unilaterally started opening on Sundays in the early 90s was the law reformed."
I don't remember that. I remember the battle between the let-'em-open and the Sunday-should- be-special/can't-ask-workers-to-work-on a Sunday brigades, but I have no memory at all of Tescos and the like defying the law as it then stood. What emerged seemed to be a compromise between the two positions (OK, you can open but not for long). Are you sure we had this out break of lawlessness by major businesses?
Er! As an assistant manager of a shop on Princes Street in Edinburgh back in the 1980's, the shop I worked in was one of the first to open 7/52. Only because nobody thought any shop in Scotland would ever legally open on a Sunday. We only closed on Christmas and New Year's day.
It became so profitable, most of the Scottish part of the group did the same within 5 years.
England had to wait until the laws were changed, and changed, and changed until the shops can trade as they can today.
Oh! For the Keep Sunday Special brigade, there was never a problem in getting staff into work on a Sunday, most staff preferred it so that they could take professional pride in maintaining the shop.
Child Benefit: A tax on your grandchildren, so that the parents of today can have more children and a better life-style than they could otherwise afford.
IF the money were paid directly into a Child Trust Fund, which the child, and only the child, could access once they were 18, and so fund their university/first house deposit, it might, just MIGHT, make some sense.
But it, like all 'Universal Benefits' has simply got to go - recycling your own money is insane, at best, whilst paying people to have more children in an overcrowded island with insufficient housing, is just plain madness.
Add that it is a powerful incentive for the most backward and archaic-minded fundamentalists (of any and all religions) to have ever more children in an attempt to swamp 'the other lot' and you have a recipe for expensive disaster.
Like today's court-room tragedy, the Phillpotts are very, very far from the only people who see their children as a source of tax-payer funded largess to be exploited to the last penny, rather than their personal, special, and unique gift to the next generation of humanity - and so, in their DNA, to all humanity until the end of time.
Children are so very, very precious and all we have left on Earth when we're dead and gone ourselves, so paying mothers money to do with what they will is so wrong that only Attlee's Govt could have dreamed it up.
But, in his defence, we did not know about DNA then. So CB should have ended with the Coronation.
Welfare benefits can be very generous. I have just moved my Father in law from a house that I own,into sheltered accomodation and find it hard to beleive how wealthy he now is. He gets Pension,Pension credit,Attendance allowance,Housing Benefit,and of course no council tax. A total income of £19000/annum. Housing benefit alone is nearly £9000/annum. He did not qualify for this before the move as he lived in a house owned by me. The various benefits were awarded with very little scrutiny of his affairs,which were all legitimate anyway. Oh forgot it is a one bedroom apartment he moved into,so no deduction of benefit.Very generous.
TCPoliticalBetting I suppose you want to ban inheritance after the guy the other day killed his parents for their money do you? What a ridiculous line of argument. You should get some help.
Is the Govt providing more IHT from tax payers ? Answer No. Benefits are however a benefit funded from taxes and govt debt.
He was an evil bastard who botched an obscene plan to win custody. Your demented attempt to draw a straight line between that and the bedroom tax via a government minister's own words is so beyond the pale it would be staggering but for the fact that we are used to seeing it on here from PB tories. You must be exceedingly proud of yourself.
I have made no mention of the bedroom tax, please withdraw that slur.
Contrast. The IDS comment on £53 per week, The child murderer Philpott seeking to expand his benefit entitlement.
Sorry chum but you most certainly did try to equate the two since that is what IDS was talking about when he made the comment. You even made it worse with this crass stupidity.
These are the battle lines for GE 2015 and beyond. How would some of the key people who founded the Fabians and the Labour party view the 2013 products of the welfare state such as the 17 kids from Philpott?
These are the battle lines for GE 2015 and beyond.
The nasty party is back with a vengeance on PB.
Are you going to find some rapists on welfare now to 'bolster' your facile nonsense?
Welfare benefits can be very generous. I have just moved my Father in law from a house that I own,into sheltered accomodation and find it hard to beleive how wealthy he now is. He gets Pension,Pension credit,Attendance allowance,Housing Benefit,and of course no council tax. A total income of £19000/annum. Housing benefit alone is nearly £9000/annum. He did not qualify for this before the move as he lived in a house owned by me. The various benefits were awarded with very little scrutiny of his affairs,which were all legitimate anyway. Oh forgot it is a one bedroom apartment he moved into,so no deduction of benefit.Very generous.
As we know, cutrting benefits for the elderly is off limits for the Tories. Strangely enough, the elderly are the people most likely to vote Tory. I doubt there is any connection.
13% of voters think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, including 22% of Romney voters
If I'm multiplying this up right that leaves 1% of voters who thought Barack Obama was the anti-Christ but voted for him anyway. Just how shit was the other guy?
13% of voters think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, including 22% of Romney voters
If I'm multiplying this up right that leaves 1% of voters who though Barack Obama was the anti-Christ but voted for him anyway. Just how shit was the other guy?
Wasn't there a poll that showed some Republicans thought Obama was either
Yesterday I paid £83 to fill my car with diesel. On Sunday I went to Tescos and spent £112 on messages which admittedly included a couple of decent bottles of wine and a nice roast for Easter. I did not buy washing powder, toothpaste or any of the incidentals that are needed for a household.
My wife has been to Tescos again today and I even bought a few things yesterday. The idea that you can live reasonably well for £53 a week after housing and heating costs is frankly ridiculous. Our costs reflect a family of 4 who would obviously get more than £53 a week but come on.
Those that claim those living on benefits have a pleasant life have either never done it or did it so long ago that they have rose tinted spectacles (or maybe those goggles the Guardian was offering yesterday).
This is not the point. The point is what obligation do we owe our fellow citizens who are not contributing and, even more so, those who have never contributed? What can we afford to pay without damaging our economy and making it uncompetitive? What proportion of earned income should be mandated to the poor? This is the debate we need to have. Arguing about the living costs of a cabinet minister is frankly trivilising and patronising the people those who do it are claiming to help.
I hope you didn't go to Tesco on Sunday, they should be closed on Easter Sunday (unless it is a poxy little one).
And you are right the noise around Duncan Smith is an insult to those who should be getting help from the better off in society.
I think David is from Scotland, and the laws on Sunday trading are different in Scotland than they are in England & Wales
That is cheating, living in Scotland. Do real people still do that?
It has been a while since I read up on Scotland's trading laws, but IIRC, you can't compel workers to work on Sunday, but shops can open longer on Sunday in Scotland and there aren't the restrictions on Easter Sunday and Christmas Day that there are in England & Wales.
They were all open but closed early at 6pm, all big Tesco's are open 24x7 up here apart from xmas day.
In reply to Tim. Despite all the benefits my Father in law gets he will not vote any more,probably too old to care. All of the benefits are long standing,Pension credit,Attendance allowance,Housing benefit,CT benefit,it is not only Tory policy to protect ,and court pensioners,it is all politicians,and yes because they do normally vote.
Ben Page, Ipsos MORI@benatipsosmori1h Doing BBC Newschannel on benefit cuts - 78% say want some people to have benefits cut, 72% say politicians should bring benefits bill down.
Labour on the wrong side of public opinion yet again.
13% of voters think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, including 22% of Romney voters
If I'm multiplying this up right that leaves 1% of voters who thought Barack Obama was the anti-Christ but voted for him anyway. Just how shit was the other guy?
I think I've said this before - when G.W.Bush was accused by some of being the Anti-Christ -
Why would the Anti-Christ give himself term limits?
13% of voters think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, including 22% of Romney voters
If I'm multiplying this up right that leaves 1% of voters who thought Barack Obama was the anti-Christ but voted for him anyway. Just how shit was the other guy?
He's the second Republican in the senate to do it, but the first seemed to do it for personal reasons, after he found out his son was gay. Mark Kirk, who never seems to have had much principle over anything, looks like he's doing it for political reason, coming from liberal Illinois. It will be an interesting test to see if it's enough for the Tea Party to primary over.
Just went to my Facebook page and there is some serious vitriol against benefits claimants . That Daydreak video is doing the rounds aswell, of that obese, lazy bint complaining that she'll have to start smoking less fags without her handouts.
If Cameron was doing badly with the ladies before, he's not doing bad among the threads I'm looking at. Girl after girl after girl is slamming the workshy. Here are some of the choice comments:
"Some people are genuine, but most of them are just lazy f*cking slobs".
"I'm proud that the little money I get I work bloody hard for"
"That bitch makes me spew" (about the wampa in Guido's vid)
"I've been a single parent working for five years and have never been able to afford a holiday with my kids, and yet 'she's' on hols every year"
"The slobs have ruined this country".
This isn't the Daily Mail either. This is a snapshot of my Valleys friends; all familiar with shell-suits and miners' strikes and dancing around their handbags. Real people.
See, the liberal intellegensia like Toynbee and Owen Jones pretend to know the craic but WE live at the front end. We know and we see who the scroungers are. I know a man (I'll name him BP) who drives a Ford Cougar and has the best caravanette (and suntan) you'll ever see. And we all know he's never done a day's work in his life. Neither has his wife. And they even claim for their son's asthma (despite him smoking like a trooper). We know this because he brags his balls off about it.
To be honest, none of it has ever bugged me. I've grown up with it, I'm used to it and I know at least hundreds of people who are at it. I also know people who've been busted for swindling the system. But now the twisted realities of the welfare state Brown menadaciously built are becoming known to a wider audience.
Simple fact is, welfare money whould go to those who genuinely need it. If a child is sick or disabled then make us fortunate people pay him all the money we can. But if some dodgy, lazy bugger twists his ankle and claims disability, tell him he's in entitled to nothing and point him towards an office job. It should be that simple.
If Cameron was doing badly with the ladies before, he's not doing bad among the threads I'm looking at.
It is not Cameron I object to, it is the way that the Coalition started so well and then ran out of steam in 12 months and ever since seem to have had the touch of the truly inept. I am not convinced they deserve another term but the LibDems have proved to be spineless and Labour are still the useless, lying authoritarians they showed themselves to be for 13 years.
Who is left to vote for? The choices are "The Inept", "The Spineless" and "The Deceivers". If someone shows a bit of gumption then they are liable to pick up votes.
The non-tribal voter's choice of who to vote for is appalling.
If Cameron was doing badly with the ladies before, he's not doing bad among the threads I'm looking at.
It is not Cameron I object to, it is the way that the Coalition started so well and then ran out of steam in 12 months and ever since seem to have had the touch of the truly inept. I am not convinced they deserve another term but the LibDems have proved to be spineless and Labour are still the useless, lying authoritarians they showed themselves to be for 13 years.
Who is left to vote for? The choices are "The Inept", "The Spineless" and "The Deceivers". If someone shows a bit of gumption then they are liable to pick up votes.
The non-tribal voter's choice of who to vote for is appalling.
Bev.
On a cursory glance, the Universal Credit seems to be a welcome product of the coalition agreement. Removing the artificial barriers to working more than ~16hours a week for people on low-income benefit is very welcome, IMO. You are generally right though, it seems as though the entire government has no sense of purpose, just waiting for the inevitable defeat at 2015. That, and a massively incompetent media 'strategy' team.
Just went to my Facebook page and there is some serious vitriol against benefits claimants . That Daydreak video is doing the rounds aswell, of that obese, lazy bint complaining that she'll have to start smoking less fags without her handouts.
If Cameron was doing badly with the ladies before, he's not doing bad among the threads I'm looking at. Girl after girl after girl is slamming the workshy. Here are some of the choice comments:
"Some people are genuine, but most of them are just lazy f*cking slobs".
"I'm proud that the little money I get I work bloody hard for"
"That bitch makes me spew" (about the wampa in Guido's vid)
"I've been a single parent working for five years and have never been able to afford a holiday with my kids, and yet 'she's' on hols every year"
"The slobs have ruined this country".
This isn't the Daily Mail either. This is a snapshot of my Valleys friends; all familiar with shell-suits and miners' strikes and dancing around their handbags. Real people.
See, the liberal intellegensia like Toynbee and Owen Jones pretend to know the craic but WE live at the front end. We know and we see who the scroungers are. I know a man (I'll name him BP) who drives a Ford Cougar and has the best caravanette (and suntan) you'll ever see. And we all know he's never done a day's work in his life. Neither has his wife. And they even claim for their son's asthma (despite him smoking like a trooper). We know this because he brags his balls off about it.
To be honest, none of it has ever bugged me. I've grown up with it, I'm used to it and I know at least hundreds of people who are at it. I also know people who've been busted for swindling the system. But now the twisted realities of the welfare state Brown menadaciously built are becoming known to a wider audience.
Simple fact is, welfare money whould go to those who genuinely need it. If a child is sick or disabled then make us fortunate people pay him all the money we can. But if some dodgy, lazy bugger twists his ankle and claims disability, tell him he's in entitled to nothing and point him towards an office job. It should be that simple.
Two things I do not understand:
1. If you grew up with all this benefit fiddling, how could Brown have created it?
2. Why don't you report these thieves? If you know they are fiddling the system your lack of action condemns those who are not fiddling it to reduced benefits.
As a PB tory I don;t think anybody can claim welfarism 'made' Philpott. He was a nasty man who probably would have ended up banged up anyway.
What we can say though is the state did not make it difficult for Philpott to completely indulge himself at the tax payers behest for a very long time.
As a PB tory I don;t think anybody can claim welfarism 'made' Philpott. He was a nasty man who probably would have ended up banged up anyway.
What we can say though is the state did not make it difficult for Philpott to completely indulge himself at the tax payers behest for a very long time.
And that is fair enough. So then we need to ask ourselves whether Philpott is a typical welfare recipient and whether seeking to prevent cases like his by limiting payments to one and all, instead of cracking down on abusers of the system, is the way to stop people like him. Fenster has told us he knows of hundreds of people abusing the system. Surely that means it must be pretty easy to take out the abusers (thieves) and leave genuine users alone. No-one believes that those fiddling the system should eb allowed to do so. The issue is what the best way of stopping them doing it is.
(If?) Fenster was born in 97 or then again maybe not, a more reasonable guess would be he hates Labour.
Since most babies do not worry about welfare and most people do not become political until, say, 13 years old then Fenster could be 30 years old and never known welfare except under Labour.
I think you were grasping at straws there Southam, unless you know that Fenster is 94. I think we should be told....
Bev.
PS I have no idea what gae he is either and look forward to being enlightened. I will not reveal my age other than to say "21+"
Funny. On the one side you have horror stories of 'scroungers' that are held to be representative of all that's wrong with the welfare state.
The (far more numerous) examples of genuine suffering because of this Government's attitude towards welfare, on the other hand, are dismissed as sob-stories and special pleading.
(If?) Fenster was born in 97 or then again maybe not, a more reasonable guess would be he hates Labour.
Since most babies do not worry about welfare and most people do not become political until, say, 13 years old then Fenster could be 30 years old and never known welfare except under Labour.
I think you were grasping at straws there Southam, unless you know that Fenster is 94. I think we should be told....
Bev.
PS I have no idea what gae he is either and look forward to being enlightened. I will not reveal my age other than to say "21+"
People have been abusing the welfare state since it began. I remember Peter Lilley's hilarious skits about it at Tory conferences the last time we had a Conservative government.
Fenster claims to have grown up with abuse all around him and says he knows hundreds of people who are fiddling the system. I think it is incumbent on him to let the appropriate authorities know, otherwise he is colluding in the waste of our taxes and condemning those who do not abuse the system to even greater levels of poverty than they already suffer.
1. If you grew up with all this benefit fiddling, how could Brown have created it?
2. Why don't you report these thieves? If you know they are fiddling the system your lack of action condemns those who are not fiddling it to reduced benefits.
Southam, you are assuming Fenster actually uses his brain to think about the consequences of his own words.
We will see if he agrees to this to encourage work.
The Telegraph reports this morning that:
“The minimum wage for millions of people could have to be capped or frozen in future if it risks damaging jobs or the economy, the Government has said.
- the detective talked about the lost income of Child Benefit - not TCPB?
Did he say this?
"Contrast. The IDS comment on £53 per week, The child murderer Philpott seeking to expand his benefit entitlement.
How would some of the key people who founded the Fabians and the Labour party view the 2013 products of the welfare state such as the 17 kids from Philpott?
These are the battle lines for GE 2015 and beyond."
Since he quite clearly didn't and spoke of the other factors (NONE of which can possibly excuse or justify what he did) then perhaps you should stop digging?
As Southam said the silence on this from the usual suspects is deafening and all too telling. But why not defend the lunacy? That's bound to look good isn't it?
Some nice cheery posts being made. A chap's entitled to his view, and if you disagree you could always try arguing against the points he makes instead of complaining that he's dared to disagree.
Mick P - I don't defend people and in all fairness, I have only just been lurking and reading recent posts. I just noted you made an accusation to bedroom tax and nastiness of TCPB (I don't know enough to know if he is or not) but his post talked about loss of Child Benefit which was also mentioned on the BBC report - that's all (I haven't "dug" past the last 15-20 posts!) Sorry, very lazy of me!!
Some nice cheery posts being made. A chap's entitled to his view, and if you disagree you could always try arguing against the points he makes instead of complaining that he's dared to disagree.
They appear to be questioning the validity of Fensters claims (god knows why what with him personally knowing hundreds of people abusing the system, it's not as if he said thousands) not complaining that he disagrees with them. Though if you seriously think the 'chap' trying to tie welfare to a child killer had a point then by all means enlighten us.
Comments
Actually, it's obvious why - his usual combination of opportunism and naivety.
"Fighting intensified after the accession to power in Italy of the dictator Benito Mussolini."
It seems like the 1911/12 colonization was not an unmitigated success
Someone obviously thinks it's a winning slogan and has instructed all Tory spokespeople to use it.
The essence of a slogan is to combine a memorable line with the product name which hopefully puts a positive gloss on your product "Things go better with Coke" "Go to work on an Egg" "Beanz meanz Heinze" 'Welfare an act of cruelty" (say Tories)
Whoever is behind it is quite simply a marketing illiterate. To have 'Act of cruelty-Tory-and welfare dependance' in the same sentence is insane but to usher in the biggest social security changes for several generations with it is political suicide.
A Labour government won't reverse most of these benefit changes because they know the country couldn't afford to go on in the way it was before. Remember it was Liam Byrne who said there was no money left.
Oh, let's hope so.
Thanks for that!
I'd add Jonathan to that list - he does politics, and knows his stuff. But where has Nicomachus (sic)/poster formely known as G: he's done a bunk and must be apprehended.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/campaign-finance
If this is a serious policy then don't put the tory poster boy for out of touch incompetence in the front line posturing like a peacock on it. That's inept electioneering built on a hugely complex policy that hardly looks like it will stand up to much rigorous scrutiny in the months and years to come.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-53-pounds-a-week?CMP=twt_gu
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2003/jan/13/socialexclusion.society
Who'd have thought that hammering the very poorest whilst handing a huge bonanza to the very richest would cause political problems for a Government of Upper Class Tory Millionaires?
Full marks.
How peculiar. I was having a brief twitter back and forth (entirely civil) about the cost of the Royal Family (Civil List, Crown Estates etc) and seem unable to reply to the last response. Hmm.
Hard to see Labour losing South Shields.
*tears of laughter etc*
While I am relieved to see that you escaped the Easter luncheon table, you do appear somewhat excitable today.
Did you mistake a bag of Cadbury's mini Easter eggs for a sack of acorns?
How could feeding the story possibly backfire on the incompetent fops ?
It's fast approaching 300,000 now.
*chortle*
What's that red object to D Milliband's rear?
Is it an anti-rust painted Lunar Excursion Module (LEM) - suggesting he's on another planet?
Is it a giant T-even 'phage particle, ready to infect the Deadwood Party?
Is it a Life Guard station - essential when Socialists attempt to swim against the tide of public opinion?
Is it a lighthouse beacon - essential to warn innocent travellers on the stormy seas of the rocky policies ahead?
We Should Be Told!
http://beckybendylegs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/smash.jpg
Seriously.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302741/Guilty-Mick-Mairead-Philpott-convicted-killing-children-house-botched-plan-frame-mistress.html
"Hollande" ? "Monti" ?
Did I win ?
All a long way from the "Cathy come home" time of the 1960s. But this is what happens when there is no downside to irresponsible behaviour.
The IDS comment on £53 per week,
The child murderer Philpott seeking to expand his benefit entitlement.
Blimey - they're red! I only recall them in a mid-grey tone on our 14" Echo TV set.......
http://www.trawlerpictures.net/gallery/image/6765-groyne-lighthouse-south-shields/
It's been serving South Sheilds and the Tyne for 131 years - ten times longer than Miliband Sr....
But welcome to the Tory party, you'll fit right in.
Cue gags about grinnin', groin, growin' and pr1ck.
[Many thanks for the research]
Did you even read the story?
Your demented attempt to draw a straight line between that and the bedroom tax via a government minister's own words is so beyond the pale it would be staggering but for the fact that we are used to seeing it on here from PB tories. You must be exceedingly proud of yourself.
Former Priest Pleads Guilty To Dealing Meth
The former Connecticut priest, dubbed "Monsignor Meth", ran a porn video and sex toy shop to launder money, prosecutors say.
http://news.sky.com/story/1073047/former-priest-pleads-guilty-to-dealing-meth
These are the battle lines for GE 2015 and beyond.
What I find so noteworthy is the complete lack of condemnation from those guardians of moral decency on here who are usually so quick to jump down the throat of left of centre posters they deem to be making offensive comments. The silence is deafening.
It became so profitable, most of the Scottish part of the group did the same within 5 years.
England had to wait until the laws were changed, and changed, and changed until the shops can trade as they can today.
Oh! For the Keep Sunday Special brigade, there was never a problem in getting staff into work on a Sunday, most staff preferred it so that they could take professional pride in maintaining the shop.
IF the money were paid directly into a Child Trust Fund, which the child, and only the child, could access once they were 18, and so fund their university/first house deposit, it might, just MIGHT, make some sense.
But it, like all 'Universal Benefits' has simply got to go - recycling your own money is insane, at best, whilst paying people to have more children in an overcrowded island with insufficient housing, is just plain madness.
Add that it is a powerful incentive for the most backward and archaic-minded fundamentalists (of any and all religions) to have ever more children in an attempt to swamp 'the other lot' and you have a recipe for expensive disaster.
Like today's court-room tragedy, the Phillpotts are very, very far from the only people who see their children as a source of tax-payer funded largess to be exploited to the last penny, rather than their personal, special, and unique gift to the next generation of humanity - and so, in their DNA, to all humanity until the end of time.
Children are so very, very precious and all we have left on Earth when we're dead and gone ourselves, so paying mothers money to do with what they will is so wrong that only Attlee's Govt could have dreamed it up.
But, in his defence, we did not know about DNA then. So CB should have ended with the Coronation.
He gets Pension,Pension credit,Attendance allowance,Housing Benefit,and of course no council tax.
A total income of £19000/annum. Housing benefit alone is nearly £9000/annum. He did not qualify for this before the move as he lived in a house owned by me.
The various benefits were awarded with very little scrutiny of his affairs,which were all legitimate anyway.
Oh forgot it is a one bedroom apartment he moved into,so no deduction of benefit.Very generous.
The nasty party is back with a vengeance on PB.
Are you going to find some rapists on welfare now to 'bolster' your facile nonsense?
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/04/conspiracy-theory-poll-results-.html If I'm multiplying this up right that leaves 1% of voters who thought Barack Obama was the anti-Christ but voted for him anyway. Just how shit was the other guy?
90 MPs get free iPads for working on 'paperless select committees'
Scores of MPs have been handed free iPads by Commons authorities after agreeing to work on “paperless select committees”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9967447/90-MPs-get-free-iPads-for-working-on-paperless-select-committees.html
Wasn't there a poll that showed some Republicans thought Obama was either
i) A Muslim
ii) A Muslim born in Indonesia
iii) The Antichrist
yet about 10% still voted for him.
Romney is a shit campaigner. Always was, always will be.
All of the benefits are long standing,Pension credit,Attendance allowance,Housing benefit,CT benefit,it is not only Tory policy to protect ,and court pensioners,it is all politicians,and yes because they do normally vote.
Doing BBC Newschannel on benefit cuts - 78% say want some people to have benefits cut, 72% say politicians should bring benefits bill down.
Labour on the wrong side of public opinion yet again.
I think I've said this before - when G.W.Bush was accused by some of being the Anti-Christ -
Why would the Anti-Christ give himself term limits?
Why bother with an interview when a blank piece of paper will do.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/kim-jong-un-to-manage-carlisle-united-2013040264375
Maybe they only realised it since November?
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/291407-sen-kirk-supports-same-sex-marriage
He's the second Republican in the senate to do it, but the first seemed to do it for personal reasons, after he found out his son was gay. Mark Kirk, who never seems to have had much principle over anything, looks like he's doing it for political reason, coming from liberal Illinois. It will be an interesting test to see if it's enough for the Tea Party to primary over.
If Cameron was doing badly with the ladies before, he's not doing bad among the threads I'm looking at. Girl after girl after girl is slamming the workshy. Here are some of the choice comments:
"Some people are genuine, but most of them are just lazy f*cking slobs".
"I'm proud that the little money I get I work bloody hard for"
"That bitch makes me spew" (about the wampa in Guido's vid)
"I've been a single parent working for five years and have never been able to afford a holiday with my kids, and yet 'she's' on hols every year"
"The slobs have ruined this country".
This isn't the Daily Mail either. This is a snapshot of my Valleys friends; all familiar with shell-suits and miners' strikes and dancing around their handbags. Real people.
See, the liberal intellegensia like Toynbee and Owen Jones pretend to know the craic but WE live at the front end. We know and we see who the scroungers are. I know a man (I'll name him BP) who drives a Ford Cougar and has the best caravanette (and suntan) you'll ever see. And we all know he's never done a day's work in his life. Neither has his wife. And they even claim for their son's asthma (despite him smoking like a trooper). We know this because he brags his balls off about it.
To be honest, none of it has ever bugged me. I've grown up with it, I'm used to it and I know at least hundreds of people who are at it. I also know people who've been busted for swindling the system. But now the twisted realities of the welfare state Brown menadaciously built are becoming known to a wider audience.
Simple fact is, welfare money whould go to those who genuinely need it. If a child is sick or disabled then make us fortunate people pay him all the money we can. But if some dodgy, lazy bugger twists his ankle and claims disability, tell him he's in entitled to nothing and point him towards an office job. It should be that simple.
Day 1 9.30am - cash the cheque
Day 1 10.00am - Go to Job Centre
Day 1 10.30am - Go to Interview
Day 1 11am - Accept Job
Day 1 11.30am - Demonstrate to all that the £53 is no irrelevant because he has a 40hr a week job paying at £6 per hour, so he now has £240 a week.
Day 1 12pm - go buy an alarm clock and a razor
Not up to PB tory standards then, are they?
Who is left to vote for? The choices are "The Inept", "The Spineless" and "The Deceivers". If someone shows a bit of gumption then they are liable to pick up votes.
The non-tribal voter's choice of who to vote for is appalling.
Bev.
Lump of coal? We were lucky.
1. If you grew up with all this benefit fiddling, how could Brown have created it?
2. Why don't you report these thieves? If you know they are fiddling the system your lack of action condemns those who are not fiddling it to reduced benefits.
Not up to PB tory standards then, are they?
They are not Mick.
Fenster will have to look harder to his facebook acquaintances.
What we can say though is the state did not make it difficult for Philpott to completely indulge himself at the tax payers behest for a very long time.
Southam.
Fenster was born in 97 or then again maybe not, a more reasonable guess would be he hates Labour.
I think you were grasping at straws there Southam, unless you know that Fenster is 94. I think we should be told....
Bev.
PS I have no idea what gae he is either and look forward to being enlightened. I will not reveal my age other than to say "21+"
The (far more numerous) examples of genuine suffering because of this Government's attitude towards welfare, on the other hand, are dismissed as sob-stories and special pleading.
Fenster claims to have grown up with abuse all around him and says he knows hundreds of people who are fiddling the system. I think it is incumbent on him to let the appropriate authorities know, otherwise he is colluding in the waste of our taxes and condemning those who do not abuse the system to even greater levels of poverty than they already suffer.
Well at least he understands a minimum wage then.
We will see if he agrees to this to encourage work.
The Telegraph reports this morning that:
“The minimum wage for millions of people could have to be capped or frozen in future if it risks damaging jobs or the economy, the Government has said.
'Obsessed with sex'
He said: "Mick never got over Lisa leaving him. And he'd lost five child benefits [through his children by Lisa] and five people who worshipped him
Mike Pork - This is from BBC - the detective talked about the lost income of Child Benefit - not TCPB?
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-04-02/when-is-a-job-not-a-job-the-rise-of-zero-hours-contracts/
"Contrast.
The IDS comment on £53 per week,
The child murderer Philpott seeking to expand his benefit entitlement.
How would some of the key people who founded the Fabians and the Labour party view the 2013 products of the welfare state such as the 17 kids from Philpott?
These are the battle lines for GE 2015 and beyond."
Since he quite clearly didn't and spoke of the other factors (NONE of which can possibly excuse or justify what he did) then perhaps you should stop digging?
As Southam said the silence on this from the usual suspects is deafening and all too telling.
But why not defend the lunacy? That's bound to look good isn't it?
What would happen if they didn't?
"Fenster's post is just typical anecdotal made up fiction but every pbtory will nod sagely and believe it as gospel . "
Has he forgot there is no more likes on here that he always used to try and accumulate.
He should go and get the claptrap somewhere else.
.
Some nice cheery posts being made. A chap's entitled to his view, and if you disagree you could always try arguing against the points he makes instead of complaining that he's dared to disagree.