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They should be careful. Six months ago, the idea that someone like Jeremy Corbyn could be elected as Labour leader was also for the birds. Two years ago so was the idea that Scotland might be cleaned up by the SNP.AndyJS said:The BBC's paper reviewers falling over themselves to rubbish the poll showing No on 51% for the EU referendum.
These are unpredictable times.0 -
For BBC Radio 4, I've been searching for some idea of what the modern "British Dream" could be, through a series of frank interviews with some of the almost 3 million new arrivals to England and Wales since 2001 (the first of three programmes is broadcast at 8pm starting tonight). Time and again, our team uncovered Africans who were not any longer from Africa. They were EU citizens and actually giving up welfare rights in places like Scandinavia to come to the UK.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/british-dream-europe-african-citizens0 -
They aren't, Hillary leads Trump by 2.4% in the RCP poll average (even including this poll), Biden more. This is one poll, Romney led Obama in more polls in 2011 at this stage than Trump has led HillaryThe_Apocalypse said:
I can't believe Americans are seriously going to vote for Trump as POTUS.MTimT said:Ouch! This has got to hurt the Dems, and Hillary's campaign in particular:
"In an election for President of the United States, today, Labor Day, business provocateur Donald Trump narrowly defeats Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Al Gore, in head-to-head matchups, according to nationwide polling conducted by SurveyUSA.
"Today it's:
* Trump 45%, Clinton 40%. (There is a 20-point Gender Gap; Trump leads by 18 points among seniors.)
* Trump 44%, Sanders 40%. (Trump leads by 10 among independents and by 6 among moderates.)
* Trump 44%, Biden 42%. (Trump leads by 10 among the best educated; Biden leads by 17 among the least educated.)
* Trump 44%, Gore 41%. (Trump leads by 12 among men and by 18 among voters age 50+.)
Among a subset of registered voters who tell SurveyUSA that they pay "a lot" of attention to politics, the scale tilts to the right: Today it's:
* Trump 54%, Clinton 36%.
* Trump 53%, Sanders 39%.
* Trump 53%, Biden 37%.
* Trump 54%, Gore 36%. "
The world has gone mad.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html0 -
Agreed. Sadly, I have thought for a long time that Britain will vote 'No'/'leave' if offered the opportunity. The latest media frenzy over migration/asylum means I am more certain.Casino_Royale said:
They should be careful. Six months ago, the idea that someone like Jeremy Corbyn could be elected as Labour leader was also for the birds. Two years ago so was the idea that Scotland might be cleaned up by the SNP.AndyJS said:The BBC's paper reviewers falling over themselves to rubbish the poll showing No on 51% for the EU referendum.
These are unpredictable times.0 -
There's nothing sad about it: I think it's a tremendous opportunity for the country.rottenborough said:
Agreed. Sadly, I have thought for a long time that Britain will vote 'No'/'leave' if offered the opportunity. The latest media frenzy over migration/asylum means I am more certain.Casino_Royale said:
They should be careful. Six months ago, the idea that someone like Jeremy Corbyn could be elected as Labour leader was also for the birds. Two years ago so was the idea that Scotland might be cleaned up by the SNP.AndyJS said:The BBC's paper reviewers falling over themselves to rubbish the poll showing No on 51% for the EU referendum.
These are unpredictable times.
Personally, I'd be delighted.0 -
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I suspect.Casino_Royale said:
There's nothing sad about it: I think it's a tremendous opportunity for the country.rottenborough said:
Agreed. Sadly, I have thought for a long time that Britain will vote 'No'/'leave' if offered the opportunity. The latest media frenzy over migration/asylum means I am more certain.Casino_Royale said:
They should be careful. Six months ago, the idea that someone like Jeremy Corbyn could be elected as Labour leader was also for the birds. Two years ago so was the idea that Scotland might be cleaned up by the SNP.AndyJS said:The BBC's paper reviewers falling over themselves to rubbish the poll showing No on 51% for the EU referendum.
These are unpredictable times.
Personally, I'd be delighted.
Bed time - night all.0 -
Not that it's an impressive set of goals anyway but polls like this should actually help Cameron wring concessions from other EU leaders to achieve his (highly limited) renegotiation.JEO said:
This is the danger for the Tory leadership. They risk being on the wrong side of the base, which can be done, but only if you're respectful and honest about it. If they start coming out with three million jobs nonsense or say eurosceptics want to pull up the drawbridge they will be in trouble.HYUFD said:
Labour voters are 63% In, 37% Out, LDs 84% In, 16% Out, UKIP voters 95% Out, 5% In, so it looks like Tory votes will be the swing voters in EU refAndyJS said:
http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Final-MoS-September-Tables-1c0d0h4.pdf
But that assumes the remainder of the EU still care whether we stay or not.0 -
Not at all. I hope I can persuade you over the coming months to look at it differently.rottenborough said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I suspect.Casino_Royale said:
There's nothing sad about it: I think it's a tremendous opportunity for the country.rottenborough said:
Agreed. Sadly, I have thought for a long time that Britain will vote 'No'/'leave' if offered the opportunity. The latest media frenzy over migration/asylum means I am more certain.Casino_Royale said:
They should be careful. Six months ago, the idea that someone like Jeremy Corbyn could be elected as Labour leader was also for the birds. Two years ago so was the idea that Scotland might be cleaned up by the SNP.AndyJS said:The BBC's paper reviewers falling over themselves to rubbish the poll showing No on 51% for the EU referendum.
These are unpredictable times.
Personally, I'd be delighted.
Bed time - night all.
Sleep well.0 -
Long past my bedtime. Goodnight, all, and many thanks for a most interesting & informative discussion.
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I think they do ( French aside possibly ) but thus far I don't think they're taking the possibility of us actually going seriously. Some "leave" leads would be great to concentrate minds and extract some concessions.Casino_Royale said:
Not that it's an impressive set of goals anyway but polls like this should actually help Cameron wring concessions from other EU leaders to achieve his (highly limited) renegotiation.JEO said:
This is the danger for the Tory leadership. They risk being on the wrong side of the base, which can be done, but only if you're respectful and honest about it. If they start coming out with three million jobs nonsense or say eurosceptics want to pull up the drawbridge they will be in trouble.HYUFD said:
Labour voters are 63% In, 37% Out, LDs 84% In, 16% Out, UKIP voters 95% Out, 5% In, so it looks like Tory votes will be the swing voters in EU refAndyJS said:
http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Final-MoS-September-Tables-1c0d0h4.pdf
But that assumes the remainder of the EU still care whether we stay or not.0 -
Cooper has been better at appealing to ABCs, Burnham has been better at appealing to people who sympathise with Corbyn but worry about electability or foreign policy or whatever. So Cooper is well placed to win the ABC "primary", but Burnham would do better in the final round.HYUFD said:
Indeed, the Head of the Kendall campaign has said he has given his second vote to Burnham. "According to Burnham’s canvassing data – involving responses from the 80,494 people eligible to vote – the percentage of his voters who have, or will, put Corbyn down as a second preference has risen in recent weeks from 28% to 51%.Speedy said:I come back from a night out to see that OUT is leading thanks to the immigration crisis and the Anyone But Corbyn camp in general disarray once more:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/05/labour-liz-kendall-vote-for-yvette-cooper-get-jeremy-corbyn
Make your minds up, yesterday according to the ABC's, Cooper was brilliant and Burnham was trash, today they flipped once more.
Only 30% of Burnham’s second preferences would go to Cooper if he came third, it is claimed."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/05/labour-liz-kendall-vote-for-yvette-cooper-get-jeremy-corbyn0 -
Precisely.welshowl said:
I think they do ( French aside possibly ) but thus far I don't think they're taking the possibility of us actually going seriously. Some "leave" leads would be great to concentrate minds and extract some concessions.Casino_Royale said:
Not that it's an impressive set of goals anyway but polls like this should actually help Cameron wring concessions from other EU leaders to achieve his (highly limited) renegotiation.JEO said:
This is the danger for the Tory leadership. They risk being on the wrong side of the base, which can be done, but only if you're respectful and honest about it. If they start coming out with three million jobs nonsense or say eurosceptics want to pull up the drawbridge they will be in trouble.HYUFD said:
Labour voters are 63% In, 37% Out, LDs 84% In, 16% Out, UKIP voters 95% Out, 5% In, so it looks like Tory votes will be the swing voters in EU refAndyJS said:
http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Final-MoS-September-Tables-1c0d0h4.pdf
But that assumes the remainder of the EU still care whether we stay or not.
Right, I must do some sack hitting myself. Goodnight.0 -
Exactly, it is only by winning over some Corbyn leaning voters that an ABC candidate will win, and Burnham is the only candidate likely to do thatWilliam_H said:
Cooper has been better at appealing to ABCs, Burnham has been better at appealing to people who sympathise with Corbyn but worry about electability or foreign policy or whatever. So Cooper is well placed to win the ABC "primary", but Burnham would do better in the final round.HYUFD said:
Indeed, the Head of the Kendall campaign has said he has given his second vote to Burnham. "According to Burnham’s canvassing data – involving responses from the 80,494 people eligible to vote – the percentage of his voters who have, or will, put Corbyn down as a second preference has risen in recent weeks from 28% to 51%.Speedy said:I come back from a night out to see that OUT is leading thanks to the immigration crisis and the Anyone But Corbyn camp in general disarray once more:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/05/labour-liz-kendall-vote-for-yvette-cooper-get-jeremy-corbyn
Make your minds up, yesterday according to the ABC's, Cooper was brilliant and Burnham was trash, today they flipped once more.
Only 30% of Burnham’s second preferences would go to Cooper if he came third, it is claimed."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/05/labour-liz-kendall-vote-for-yvette-cooper-get-jeremy-corbyn0 -
Interestingly on some matters like healthcare (Trump has praised the Scottish system) and the tax code Trump has been left of most Republicans in his statements, it is on immigration that he really takes a hard right lineThe_Apocalypse said:
I can't believe Americans are seriously going to vote for Trump as POTUS.MTimT said:Ouch! This has got to hurt the Dems, and Hillary's campaign in particular:
"In an election for President of the United States, today, Labor Day, business provocateur Donald Trump narrowly defeats Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Al Gore, in head-to-head matchups, according to nationwide polling conducted by SurveyUSA.
"Today it's:
* Trump 45%, Clinton 40%. (There is a 20-point Gender Gap; Trump leads by 18 points among seniors.)
* Trump 44%, Sanders 40%. (Trump leads by 10 among independents and by 6 among moderates.)
* Trump 44%, Biden 42%. (Trump leads by 10 among the best educated; Biden leads by 17 among the least educated.)
* Trump 44%, Gore 41%. (Trump leads by 12 among men and by 18 among voters age 50+.)
Among a subset of registered voters who tell SurveyUSA that they pay "a lot" of attention to politics, the scale tilts to the right: Today it's:
* Trump 54%, Clinton 36%.
* Trump 53%, Sanders 39%.
* Trump 53%, Biden 37%.
* Trump 54%, Gore 36%. "
The world has gone mad.0 -
Globetrotters! I haven't been out of the UK since early 2008.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I managed India, Switzerland, France and the US during calendar year 2010, but that is highly impressive!Charles said:Home tomorrow after a ludicrous wander, even by my standards.
In 10 days: Frankfurt, Paris, Brussels, Philadelphia, Raleigh, Greensboro, Chicago, Lansing, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Kansas City, New Jersey, Indianapolis and New York.
Can't wait
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I recall stories that a significant number of Somalis living in the Netherlands became embroiled in accusations of benefit fraud. Because they were EU citizens many moved en masse to the UK. It's a pity that their unemployment rate is extremely high.JEO said:
Passports took 10 years in Holland, yet more than a third of their Somali population came to the UK. If only 10% of this migrant wave do the same, thats an extra 80,000 per year for the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
That takes ~8 years in Germany, by which time people will be by and large settled down in Germany.JEO said:
We won't have a choice when they get EU passports.HYUFD said:
In the end I don't think we will take a large numberSean_F said:
They've nothing left to offer us.HYUFD said:
In the end Germany will want the UK to stay, it does not want to be the only major north European economy left in the EU, outnumbered by Spain, Italy and FranceThe_Apocalypse said:
Well, good luck with that one. Does anyone especially after the migrant crisis saga - believe that Cameron will get a decent renegotiation?HYUFD said:
Stay in the EU and take several hundred thousand asylum seekers.
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However, I have been to Lansing.Tim_B said:
I've not been to Lansing, but have been to all the others, probably taking longer than you
Lived in NJ and NY.0 -
perdix said:
I recall stories that a significant number of Somalis living in the Netherlands became embroiled in accusations of benefit fraud. Because they were EU citizens many moved en masse to the UK. It's a pity that their unemployment rate is extremely high.JEO said:
Passports took 10 years in Holland, yet more than a third of their Somali population came to the UK. If only 10% of this migrant wave do the same, thats an extra 80,000 per year for the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
That takes ~8 years in Germany, by which time people will be by and large settled down in Germany.JEO said:
We won't have a choice when they get EU passports.HYUFD said:
In the end I don't think we will take a large numberSean_F said:
They've nothing left to offer us.HYUFD said:
In the end Germany will want the UK to stay, it does not want to be the only major north European economy left in the EU, outnumbered by Spain, Italy and FranceThe_Apocalypse said:
Well, good luck with that one. Does anyone especially after the migrant crisis saga - believe that Cameron will get a decent renegotiation?HYUFD said:
Stay in the EU and take several hundred thousand asylum seekers.
And organised violent crime is rife. There's a level of hardness you acquire from being a young soldier that is so far off the scale what you would normally see in civilisation. Utter pure brutality. Violence without hesitation of conscience.0 -
Shockingly, only a third of working age Somali immigrants to the UK are in employment. Almost three quarters are on benefits.perdix said:
I recall stories that a significant number of Somalis living in the Netherlands became embroiled in accusations of benefit fraud. Because they were EU citizens many moved en masse to the UK. It's a pity that their unemployment rate is extremely high.JEO said:
Passports took 10 years in Holland, yet more than a third of their Somali population came to the UK. If only 10% of this migrant wave do the same, thats an extra 80,000 per year for the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
That takes ~8 years in Germany, by which time people will be by and large settled down in Germany.JEO said:
We won't have a choice when they get EU passports.HYUFD said:
In the end I don't think we will take a large numberSean_F said:
They've nothing left to offer us.HYUFD said:
In the end Germany will want the UK to stay, it does not want to be the only major north European economy left in the EU, outnumbered by Spain, Italy and FranceThe_Apocalypse said:
Well, good luck with that one. Does anyone especially after the migrant crisis saga - believe that Cameron will get a decent renegotiation?HYUFD said:
Stay in the EU and take several hundred thousand asylum seekers.0 -
We are being threatened by Europeans that our "incorrect" stance on taking migrants will diminish our negotiations with Europe. We are being told by Europeans that we "must" take more migrants. These things will add to the 51% that now wish to leave.Casino_Royale said:
There's nothing sad about it: I think it's a tremendous opportunity for the country.rottenborough said:
Agreed. Sadly, I have thought for a long time that Britain will vote 'No'/'leave' if offered the opportunity. The latest media frenzy over migration/asylum means I am more certain.Casino_Royale said:
They should be careful. Six months ago, the idea that someone like Jeremy Corbyn could be elected as Labour leader was also for the birds. Two years ago so was the idea that Scotland might be cleaned up by the SNP.AndyJS said:The BBC's paper reviewers falling over themselves to rubbish the poll showing No on 51% for the EU referendum.
These are unpredictable times.
Personally, I'd be delighted.
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Similar numbers for bangladeshis and pakistanis.JEO said:
Shockingly, only a third of working age Somali immigrants to the UK are in employment. Almost three quarters are on benefits.perdix said:
I recall stories that a significant number of Somalis living in the Netherlands became embroiled in accusations of benefit fraud. Because they were EU citizens many moved en masse to the UK. It's a pity that their unemployment rate is extremely high.JEO said:
Passports took 10 years in Holland, yet more than a third of their Somali population came to the UK. If only 10% of this migrant wave do the same, thats an extra 80,000 per year for the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
That takes ~8 years in Germany, by which time people will be by and large settled down in Germany.JEO said:
We won't have a choice when they get EU passports.HYUFD said:
In the end I don't think we will take a large numberSean_F said:
They've nothing left to offer us.HYUFD said:
In the end Germany will want the UK to stay, it does not want to be the only major north European economy left in the EU, outnumbered by Spain, Italy and FranceThe_Apocalypse said:
Well, good luck with that one. Does anyone especially after the migrant crisis saga - believe that Cameron will get a decent renegotiation?HYUFD said:
Stay in the EU and take several hundred thousand asylum seekers.
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Certainly to control pan European migration yesjohn_zims said:@HYUFD
'In the end I think it will be a narrow In, but as this poll shows Cameron does need to get a reasonable renegotiation to ensure it
Think voters are now waking up to the fact that if you really are concerned about immigration then the only option is to leave the EU.0 -
2005 for me, but that's nothing compared to a chap at my work. Never been off this island and he just turned 70.initforthemoney said:
Globetrotters! I haven't been out of the UK since early 2008.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I managed India, Switzerland, France and the US during calendar year 2010, but that is highly impressive!Charles said:Home tomorrow after a ludicrous wander, even by my standards.
In 10 days: Frankfurt, Paris, Brussels, Philadelphia, Raleigh, Greensboro, Chicago, Lansing, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Kansas City, New Jersey, Indianapolis and New York.
Can't wait
Good night all.0 -
In terms of the Tory leadership doing stupid things to annoy the base, it sounds like they are going to oppose an amendment to stop the EU using public funds to campaign for In. So our UK government will be limited, but the EU will not.
Completely hare-brained.
I'm also disturbed by reports that the In side will be allowed to spend a lot more money than the Out side. That's not fair at all.0 -
Wednesday for me.*kle4 said:
2005 for me, but that's nothing compared to a chap at my work. Never been off this island and he just turned 70.initforthemoney said:
Globetrotters! I haven't been out of the UK since early 2008.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I managed India, Switzerland, France and the US during calendar year 2010, but that is highly impressive!Charles said:Home tomorrow after a ludicrous wander, even by my standards.
In 10 days: Frankfurt, Paris, Brussels, Philadelphia, Raleigh, Greensboro, Chicago, Lansing, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Kansas City, New Jersey, Indianapolis and New York.
Can't wait
Good night all.
* Outside the country being outside the US in this instance.0 -
Good efforts both. I lived abroad (in three US states) for seven years so I certainly can't match that. I leave the island on the Kilcreggan ferry across the Firth of Clyde about once a month and did make it to the Orkneys this summer.kle4 said:
2005 for me, but that's nothing compared to a chap at my work. Never been off this island and he just turned 70.
Good night all.0 -
Hey PBers!
I've just had an email from a bloke in Nigeria saying if I send some dough via Western union he will send me more back
Also, my auntie, a 20st unemployed layabout, has met a bloke from the Ivory Coast that is 14 years younger than her and fit as a fiddle. He says he loves her and she's been so lonely since uncle died and left her all that money... I think he is going to propose
Any advice?0 -
91% of Britons have travelled overseas compared and 8% have never left the country. 50% of Americans have travelled overseas while 48% have not.MTimT said:
Wednesday for me.*kle4 said:
2005 for me, but that's nothing compared to a chap at my work. Never been off this island and he just turned 70.initforthemoney said:
Globetrotters! I haven't been out of the UK since early 2008.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I managed India, Switzerland, France and the US during calendar year 2010, but that is highly impressive!Charles said:Home tomorrow after a ludicrous wander, even by my standards.
In 10 days: Frankfurt, Paris, Brussels, Philadelphia, Raleigh, Greensboro, Chicago, Lansing, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Kansas City, New Jersey, Indianapolis and New York.
Can't wait
Good night all.
* Outside the country being outside the US in this instance.
However, while 60% of Americans have not left N America, with 28% having gone to Europe (the most visited foreign continent) a majority of Britons have not left Europe either, with 56% of Britons never having visited North America (Britons most visited foreign continent)
https://today.yougov.com/news/2014/11/20/no-travel-please/0 -
Yes, Trump seems to have had some liberal views in the past - more than a decade ago he was pro-choice - and now he's moved the pro-life position of the Republicans. It's very hard to tell what Trump actually believes: has he shifted rightwards because that's really what he believes, or to fall in favour with the GOP base?HYUFD said:
Interestingly on some matters like healthcare (Trump has praised the Scottish system) and the tax code Trump has been left of most Republicans in his statements, it is on immigration that he really takes a hard right lineThe_Apocalypse said:
I can't believe Americans are seriously going to vote for Trump as POTUS.MTimT said:Ouch! This has got to hurt the Dems, and Hillary's campaign in particular:
"In an election for President of the United States, today, Labor Day, business provocateur Donald Trump narrowly defeats Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Al Gore, in head-to-head matchups, according to nationwide polling conducted by SurveyUSA.
"Today it's:
* Trump 45%, Clinton 40%. (There is a 20-point Gender Gap; Trump leads by 18 points among seniors.)
* Trump 44%, Sanders 40%. (Trump leads by 10 among independents and by 6 among moderates.)
* Trump 44%, Biden 42%. (Trump leads by 10 among the best educated; Biden leads by 17 among the least educated.)
* Trump 44%, Gore 41%. (Trump leads by 12 among men and by 18 among voters age 50+.)
Among a subset of registered voters who tell SurveyUSA that they pay "a lot" of attention to politics, the scale tilts to the right: Today it's:
* Trump 54%, Clinton 36%.
* Trump 53%, Sanders 39%.
* Trump 53%, Biden 37%.
* Trump 54%, Gore 36%. "
The world has gone mad.0 -
Undoubtedly the latter, he is basically a richer, even more brash version of Nigel Farage!The_Apocalypse said:
Yes, Trump seems to have had some liberal views in the past - more than a decade ago he was pro-choice - and now he's moved the pro-life position of the Republicans. It's very hard to tell what Trump actually believes: has he shifted rightwards because that's really what he believes, or to fall in favour with the GOP base?HYUFD said:
Interestingly on some matters like healthcare (Trump has praised the Scottish system) and the tax code Trump has been left of most Republicans in his statements, it is on immigration that he really takes a hard right lineThe_Apocalypse said:
I can't believe Americans are seriously going to vote for Trump as POTUS.MTimT said:Ouch! This has got to hurt the Dems, and Hillary's campaign in particular:
"In an election for President of the United States, today, Labor Day, business provocateur Donald Trump narrowly defeats Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Al Gore, in head-to-head matchups, according to nationwide polling conducted by SurveyUSA.
"Today it's:
* Trump 45%, Clinton 40%. (There is a 20-point Gender Gap; Trump leads by 18 points among seniors.)
* Trump 44%, Sanders 40%. (Trump leads by 10 among independents and by 6 among moderates.)
* Trump 44%, Biden 42%. (Trump leads by 10 among the best educated; Biden leads by 17 among the least educated.)
* Trump 44%, Gore 41%. (Trump leads by 12 among men and by 18 among voters age 50+.)
Among a subset of registered voters who tell SurveyUSA that they pay "a lot" of attention to politics, the scale tilts to the right: Today it's:
* Trump 54%, Clinton 36%.
* Trump 53%, Sanders 39%.
* Trump 53%, Biden 37%.
* Trump 54%, Gore 36%. "
The world has gone mad.0 -
@welshowl
I think they do ( French aside possibly ) but thus far I don't think they're taking the possibility of us actually going seriously.'
I think they are seriously underestimating the volatility of the electorate as seen in last year's Scottish referendum,the GE this year and the Labour leadership election.
Merkel could win it for the 'No' campaign
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Interesting.HYUFD said:
Based on Quebec's experience, 15-20 yearsMattW said:
Your estimate of the answer to my question?HYUFD said:
Indeed, but it does not seem to be being noticed much at the momentMattW said:
Maybe.HYUFD said:
If the UK votes to quit the EU though she will demand Scotland be allowed to stay in the EU regardless of whether the rUK leaves or notMattW said:
Sturgeon does not have the authority to call Indy Ref 2.HYUFD said:
Yes, but Sturgeon has made clear EU exit would be a 'change in circumstances' which could trigger indyref2RobD said:
The English could do anything, and that would be used as justification by the SNP for another indyref!HYUFD said:
Well if we do leave the EU we will certainly lose Scotland this time, but it will be the rest of the UK who will have kicked them out by default, knowing that voting to quit the EU means losing our northern neighbours too (Scotland almost certainly voting Yes)TheScreamingEagles said:The survation poll data tables
http://bit.ly/1EIbwaH
Keep calm bitches, this time last year (well technically tomorrow) we had a poll with Yes ahead in the Indyref
All she can do is run a big opinion poll without the say so of the UK Government.
But how long will that take and will the dog's breakfast the SNP are making of Scotland have come home t o roost yet?
You can only starve your education and health systems of resources for so long before the people notice.
I am 10-15 based on the longest it has taken UK Govts to sour, plus 5-10 extra because the opposition in Scotland is split plus the referendum emotional boost, which makes it 15-25 from 2007.
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The difference between Trump and Farage in that though, is that Farage's views are genuine.HYUFD said:
Undoubtedly the latter, he is basically a richer, even more brash version of Nigel Farage!The_Apocalypse said:
Yes, Trump seems to have had some liberal views in the past - more than a decade ago he was pro-choice - and now he's moved the pro-life position of the Republicans. It's very hard to tell what Trump actually believes: has he shifted rightwards because that's really what he believes, or to fall in favour with the GOP base?HYUFD said:
Interestingly on some matters like healthcare (Trump has praised the Scottish system) and the tax code Trump has been left of most Republicans in his statements, it is on immigration that he really takes a hard right lineThe_Apocalypse said:
I can't believe Americans are seriously going to vote for Trump as POTUS.MTimT said:Ouch! This has got to hurt the Dems, and Hillary's campaign in particular:
"In an election for President of the United States, today, Labor Day, business provocateur Donald Trump narrowly defeats Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Al Gore, in head-to-head matchups, according to nationwide polling conducted by SurveyUSA.
"Today it's:
* Trump 45%, Clinton 40%. (There is a 20-point Gender Gap; Trump leads by 18 points among seniors.)
* Trump 44%, Sanders 40%. (Trump leads by 10 among independents and by 6 among moderates.)
* Trump 44%, Biden 42%. (Trump leads by 10 among the best educated; Biden leads by 17 among the least educated.)
* Trump 44%, Gore 41%. (Trump leads by 12 among men and by 18 among voters age 50+.)
Among a subset of registered voters who tell SurveyUSA that they pay "a lot" of attention to politics, the scale tilts to the right: Today it's:
* Trump 54%, Clinton 36%.
* Trump 53%, Sanders 39%.
* Trump 53%, Biden 37%.
* Trump 54%, Gore 36%. "
The world has gone mad.0 -
Maybe, but then The Donald is the King of Reality TV on The Apprentice! NightThe_Apocalypse said:
The difference between Trump and Farage in that though, is that Farage's views are genuine.HYUFD said:
Undoubtedly the latter, he is basically a richer, even more brash version of Nigel Farage!The_Apocalypse said:
Yes, Trump seems to have had some liberal views in the past - more than a decade ago he was pro-choice - and now he's moved the pro-life position of the Republicans. It's very hard to tell what Trump actually believes: has he shifted rightwards because that's really what he believes, or to fall in favour with the GOP base?HYUFD said:
Interestingly on some matters like healthcare (Trump has praised the Scottish system) and the tax code Trump has been left of most Republicans in his statements, it is on immigration that he really takes a hard right lineThe_Apocalypse said:
I can't believe Americans are seriously going to vote for Trump as POTUS.MTimT said:Ouch! This has got to hurt the Dems, and Hillary's campaign in particular:
"In an election for President of the United States, today, Labor Day, business provocateur Donald Trump narrowly defeats Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and Al Gore, in head-to-head matchups, according to nationwide polling conducted by SurveyUSA.
"Today it's:
* Trump 45%, Clinton 40%. (There is a 20-point Gender Gap; Trump leads by 18 points among seniors.)
* Trump 44%, Sanders 40%. (Trump leads by 10 among independents and by 6 among moderates.)
* Trump 44%, Biden 42%. (Trump leads by 10 among the best educated; Biden leads by 17 among the least educated.)
* Trump 44%, Gore 41%. (Trump leads by 12 among men and by 18 among voters age 50+.)
Among a subset of registered voters who tell SurveyUSA that they pay "a lot" of attention to politics, the scale tilts to the right: Today it's:
* Trump 54%, Clinton 36%.
* Trump 53%, Sanders 39%.
* Trump 53%, Biden 37%.
* Trump 54%, Gore 36%. "
The world has gone mad.0 -
Sounds about right, nightMattW said:
Interesting.HYUFD said:
Based on Quebec's experience, 15-20 yearsMattW said:
Your estimate of the answer to my question?HYUFD said:
Indeed, but it does not seem to be being noticed much at the momentMattW said:
Maybe.HYUFD said:
If the UK votes to quit the EU though she will demand Scotland be allowed to stay in the EU regardless of whether the rUK leaves or notMattW said:
Sturgeon does not have the authority to call Indy Ref 2.HYUFD said:
Yes, but Sturgeon has made clear EU exit would be a 'change in circumstances' which could trigger indyref2RobD said:
The English could do anything, and that would be used as justification by the SNP for another indyref!HYUFD said:
Well if we do leave the EU we will certainly lose Scotland this time, but it will be the rest of the UK who will have kicked them out by default, knowing that voting to quit the EU means losing our northern neighbours too (Scotland almost certainly voting Yes)TheScreamingEagles said:The survation poll data tables
http://bit.ly/1EIbwaH
Keep calm bitches, this time last year (well technically tomorrow) we had a poll with Yes ahead in the Indyref
All she can do is run a big opinion poll without the say so of the UK Government.
But how long will that take and will the dog's breakfast the SNP are making of Scotland have come home t o roost yet?
You can only starve your education and health systems of resources for so long before the people notice.
I am 10-15 based on the longest it has taken UK Govts to sour, plus 5-10 extra because the opposition in Scotland is split plus the referendum emotional boost, which makes it 15-25 from 2007.0 -
Update to the loud music and drunken singing from the Roma:s,police have been brought in from threat's of violence from them on me and my family.0
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Good luck with getting something done about the problem.Tykejohnno said:Update to the loud music and drunken singing from the Roma:s,police have been brought in from threat's of violence from them on me and my family.
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Merkel is now handing out German residencies to people she happens to meet whom she feels sympathetic towards:
http://www.thelocal.de/20150905/palestinian-teen-given-residency-permit0 -
The girl and her family have some pretty vile views about Israel.AndyJS said:Merkel is now handing out German residencies to people she happens to meet whom she feels sympathetic towards:
http://www.thelocal.de/20150905/palestinian-teen-given-residency-permit
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Some Jews also believe Israel should cease to exist, as presently constituted.MP_SE said:
The girl and her family have some pretty vile views about Israel.AndyJS said:Merkel is now handing out German residencies to people she happens to meet whom she feels sympathetic towards:
http://www.thelocal.de/20150905/palestinian-teen-given-residency-permit
Just like South Africa had to...
Nothing "vile" about it at all.0 -
(OT) The extremely gorgeous handsome beautiful actor Skandar Keynes is also extremely intelligent and intellectual, and accordingly has contributed to researching and writing a report from the UNHCR about Syrian refugees in Jordan.
http://unhcr.org/jordan2014urbanreport/home-visit-report.pdf0 -
Jim Messina is moving on. After helping Obama and Cameron win, he is backing the Social Democrats to beat Merkel. I'm not so sure his magic will be up to that task:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/obama-insider-jim-messina-wants-to-beat-angela-merkel-a-1051358.html0 -
Have to add for posterity here that you are totally ignorant of any facet of life in Scotland yet pontificate on here as if you know something. Same brain again and you would be dangerous.MattW said:
Maybe. She can demand all kinds of things, for example that they could keep the pound with no consequences, or any of the other varied fantasies tehy put forward last time.HYUFD said:
If the UK votes to quit the EU though she will demand Scotland be allowed to stay in the EU regardless of whether the rUK leaves or notMattW said:
Sturgeon does not have the authority to call Indy Ref 2.HYUFD said:
Yes, but Sturgeon has made clear EU exit would be a 'change in circumstances' which could trigger indyref2RobD said:
The English could do anything, and that would be used as justification by the SNP for another indyref!HYUFD said:
Well if we do leave the EU we will certainly lose Scotland this time, but it will be the rest of the UK who will have kicked them out by default, knowing that voting to quit the EU means losing our northern neighbours too (Scotland almost certainly voting Yes)TheScreamingEagles said:The survation poll data tables
http://bit.ly/1EIbwaH
Keep calm bitches, this time last year (well technically tomorrow) we had a poll with Yes ahead in the Indyref
All she can do is run a big opinion poll without the say so of the UK Government.
But how long will that all take and will the dog's breakfast the SNP are making of Scotland have come home t o roost yet?
You can only starve your education and health systems of resources for so long before the people notice.0 -
Also for posterity.malcolmg said:
Have to add for posterity here that you are totally ignorant of any facet of life in Scotland yet pontificate on here as if you know something. Same brain again and you would be dangerous.MattW said:
Maybe. She can demand all kinds of things, for example that they could keep the pound with no consequences, or any of the other varied fantasies tehy put forward last time.HYUFD said:
If the UK votes to quit the EU though she will demand Scotland be allowed to stay in the EU regardless of whether the rUK leaves or notMattW said:
Sturgeon does not have the authority to call Indy Ref 2.HYUFD said:
Yes, but Sturgeon has made clear EU exit would be a 'change in circumstances' which could trigger indyref2RobD said:
The English could do anything, and that would be used as justification by the SNP for another indyref!HYUFD said:
Well if we do leave the EU we will certainly lose Scotland this time, but it will be the rest of the UK who will have kicked them out by default, knowing that voting to quit the EU means losing our northern neighbours too (Scotland almost certainly voting Yes)TheScreamingEagles said:The survation poll data tables
http://bit.ly/1EIbwaH
Keep calm bitches, this time last year (well technically tomorrow) we had a poll with Yes ahead in the Indyref
All she can do is run a big opinion poll without the say so of the UK Government.
But how long will that all take and will the dog's breakfast the SNP are making of Scotland have come home to roost yet?
You can only starve your education and health systems of resources for so long before the people notice.
Keep up the abuse, Malc; I'll keep sticking to facts.
The IFS on SNP management of the NHS in Scotland:
Link:http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7366
2. Between 2009-10 and 2015-16 spending on the NHS in England will, on currently announced plans, have risen by about 4% in real terms despite an overall fall of 13% in English departmental spending.
3. Over the same period the vagaries of the Barnett formula mean that Scotland will have had to cut overall public service spending by less – by about 8% rather than 13%. But the Scottish government has chosen to protect the NHS in Scotland slightly less than it has been protected in England. Spending on the NHS in Scotland has fallen by 1%.
I don't think I really need to rehearse the evidential inexactitudes throughout the Scottish Govt Independence White Paper again.
And so on.
I'm done here.0
