politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harriet Harman’s comments today have been interpreted as op
Comments
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Kendall winning the leadership would be great for us conservatives. She would cement the Osborne revolution on economics, while her left wing social issues stance would hand the white working class to UKIP.0
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Is Federer Scottish ?Sunil_Prasannan said:Have a feeling Federer's lost this. Djokovic just broke his serve in the fourth set.
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Mr 565,
"It seems these people aren't going to learn that their job is to OPPOSE."
Is it? If so, can I have the job? What ever the Government does, I will then oppose, misusing words like "refute" and "vehemently deny" and "literally" and "social cleansing".
Do you remember (if you're old enough) the Monty Python sketch ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
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Or the Mirror and the disgraceful lies and smears against the soldiers.Sandpit said:Okay, so Labour leadership candidates are tying themselves in knots this afternoon.
I wonder if anyone talking about boycotting the Sun would be interested in boycotting the Guardian, given their dozens of 'corrections' about the Milly Dowler story?0 -
Nope.HYUFD said:The recent victories of Obama, Hollande, Syriza etc also suggests that once a centre-right party has been in power for a reasonable time its opponents do not necessarily have to be Clinton/Blair/Schroder New Democrats to win. That does not mean Kendall would not also win, but it does mean they do not necessarily have to elect her alone to win. Although Corbyn may be a step too far for Middle England I agree
Their victories, and soon their crushing defeats in the case of Hollande and Syriza, was all about the economic disaster by the policies of the governments of the day.
They would have never been elected if George W. Bush, Sarkozi and the half dozen Liberal Greek governments hadn't flushed their country down the drain.0 -
Ah yes. Almost forgot Piers Moron.Moses_ said:
Or the Mirror and the disgraceful lies and smears against the soldiers.Sandpit said:Okay, so Labour leadership candidates are tying themselves in knots this afternoon.
I wonder if anyone talking about boycotting the Sun would be interested in boycotting the Guardian, given their dozens of 'corrections' about the Milly Dowler story?0 -
The same self righteous Lefties who cheered on the demise of the NOTW, but remain strangely silent as The Mirror pays out tens of £millions in damages for industrial scale phone hacking? No chance.Sandpit said:Okay, so Labour leadership candidates are tying themselves in knots this afternoon.
I wonder if anyone talking about boycotting the Sun would be interested in boycotting the Guardian, given their dozens of 'corrections' about the Milly Dowler story?0 -
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
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I really don't care one way or the other. But Wikipedia has Danae studying sculpture at St. Martin's from 1983 - 1988. Jarvis was there from 1988 - 1991 (at the same time as Klitsa who was Cypriot, not Greek)frpenkridge said:
In the documentary Jarvis said the sculpture bit was "artistic licence". The documentary checked out the only sculpture student at the time and it wasCharles said:
2. Although he said he thought she was studying sculpture.frpenkridge said:1. Jarvis Cocker is looking fine for his age.
2. In the documentary on "Common People" he said he didn't know the name of the Greek girl, nor the course she was on at St Marten's College.
3. His background in Sheffield was a slight cut above the proletariat, despite what the Guardian says. He did not involve himself in the miners' strike protests.
Separately Yanis has said that Danae was the only female Greek sculpture student at St. Martin's College during the relevant years
Klitsa Antoniou. Jarvis looked at her photo and said it wasn't her either.
I don't think you can exclude Danae based on "the relevant years" given the proximity...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danae_Stratou
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Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
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Possibly!Alanbrooke said:
Is Federer Scottish ?Sunil_Prasannan said:Have a feeling Federer's lost this. Djokovic just broke his serve in the fourth set.
Djokovic retains the Championship, takes fourth 6-3
Finishes 7-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-30 -
That does not explain Obama's reelection in 2012 against Mitt Romney or Syriza's victory in last week's referendum, in both elections the economy was not in perfect shapeSpeedy said:
Nope.HYUFD said:The recent victories of Obama, Hollande, Syriza etc also suggests that once a centre-right party has been in power for a reasonable time its opponents do not necessarily have to be Clinton/Blair/Schroder New Democrats to win. That does not mean Kendall would not also win, but it does mean they do not necessarily have to elect her alone to win. Although Corbyn may be a step too far for Middle England I agree
Their victories, and soon their crushing defeats in the case of Hollande and Syriza, was all about the economic disaster by the policies of the governments of the day.
They would have never been elected if George W. Bush, Sarkozi and the half dozen Liberal Greek governments hadn't flushed their country down the drain.0 -
Indeed, which is why I think Labour would be better electing Burnham, though Kendall would be the second best choice for them in my viewJEO said:Kendall winning the leadership would be great for us conservatives. She would cement the Osborne revolution on economics, while her left wing social issues stance would hand the white working class to UKIP.
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There have been no favourability ratings on any of the four so how can Burnham have the highest net favourables?HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
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Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
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'Hell Yes!' Unveiled For DebateHYUFD said:
Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
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Looking at the proposals Greece apparently has to agree to, bloody hell! And some thought that Syriza and Tsipras out-smarted the EU? The Greeks really should opt for a Grexit. If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll be here again going through the same situation in six months time.0
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@DPJHodges 45 secs45 seconds ago
In fairness to Andy Burnham, appears there was no shad cab discussion on child tax credit changes.0 -
They will never opt out for Grexit, Tsipras is ideologically infatuated with Europe and Tsakalotos wants to overthrow capitalism and install communism from inside the Eurozone.The_Apocalypse said:Looking at the proposals Greece apparently has to agree to, bloody hell! And some thought that Syriza and Tsipras out-smarted the EU? The Greeks really should opt for a Grexit. If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
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That sounds even better Charles, thanks, if it has to stand for something I shall adopt that!Charles said:
'Hell Yes!' Unveiled For DebateHYUFD said:
Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
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You make it sound as if that isn't really the plan...The_Apocalypse said:If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
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There have. ORB did a poll amongst the public 3 weeks ago. Burnham had a net favourability of +14%, Kendall +6%, Cooper -6%, Corbyn -15%MikeSmithson said:
There have been no favourability ratings on any of the four so how can Burnham have the highest net favourables?HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-andy-burnham-considered-the-contender-most-likely-to-improve-partys-general-election-chances-10340208.html0 -
Tsakalotos wants to do what from within the Eurozone? Is he out of his mind? I can't believe Greeks elected these idiots!Speedy said:
They will never opt out for Grexit, Tsipras is ideologically infatuated with Europe and Tsakalotos wants to overthrow capitalism and install communism from inside the Eurozone.The_Apocalypse said:Looking at the proposals Greece apparently has to agree to, bloody hell! And some thought that Syriza and Tsipras out-smarted the EU? The Greeks really should opt for a Grexit. If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
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Obama blamed Bush and Romney was the worst choice, Syriza won the referendum against the bailout because the bailouts are worse than grexit., but Syriza has guaranteed that it will be crushed at the next election because they U turned the very next day after they won the referendum.HYUFD said:
That does not explain Obama's reelection in 2012 against Mitt Romney or Syriza's victory in last week's referendum, in both elections the economy was not in perfect shapeSpeedy said:
Nope.HYUFD said:The recent victories of Obama, Hollande, Syriza etc also suggests that once a centre-right party has been in power for a reasonable time its opponents do not necessarily have to be Clinton/Blair/Schroder New Democrats to win. That does not mean Kendall would not also win, but it does mean they do not necessarily have to elect her alone to win. Although Corbyn may be a step too far for Middle England I agree
Their victories, and soon their crushing defeats in the case of Hollande and Syriza, was all about the economic disaster by the policies of the governments of the day.
They would have never been elected if George W. Bush, Sarkozi and the half dozen Liberal Greek governments hadn't flushed their country down the drain.
The first post U-turn poll in Greece shows that Syriza's position is now supported by only 16% of the public, with 79% opposed to the 3rd bailout.0 -
Why would they deliberately want to go through constant groundhog days? That's insane.Sandpit said:
You make it sound as if that isn't really the plan...The_Apocalypse said:If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
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I'm more curious about ROFLLMFAOWMTITA. (Well the WMTITA bit actually).HYUFD said:
Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
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It was taken on 24th June, ie actually slightly less than 3 weeks ago. Please tell me what events in the intervening period have made Corbyn so popular amongst the general public he has risen from last to first!Disraeli said:
Three weeks! Totally out of date by now, even if it was reliable in the first place.(Which is arguable)HYUFD said:
There have. ORB did a poll amongst the public 3 weeks ago.
A week is a long time in politics.
Two weeks is an age.
Three weeks is an epoch.0 -
Those weren't favourability ratings and it is a distortion to say that they are. This is the dataset.HYUFD said:
There have. ORB did a poll amongst the public 3 weeks ago. Burnham had a net favourability of +14%, Kendall +6%, Cooper -6%, Corbyn -15%MikeSmithson said:
There have been no favourability ratings on any of the four so how can Burnham have the highest net favourables?HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-andy-burnham-considered-the-contender-most-likely-to-improve-partys-general-election-chances-10340208.html
http://www.opinion.co.uk/perch/resources/labourleadershipdata.pdf
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Good evening, everyone.
Has Greece exploded yet?0 -
Here you go in black and white:The_Apocalypse said:
Tsakalotos wants to do what from within the Eurozone? Is he out of his mind? I can't believe Greeks elected these idiots!Speedy said:
They will never opt out for Grexit, Tsipras is ideologically infatuated with Europe and Tsakalotos wants to overthrow capitalism and install communism from inside the Eurozone.The_Apocalypse said:Looking at the proposals Greece apparently has to agree to, bloody hell! And some thought that Syriza and Tsipras out-smarted the EU? The Greeks really should opt for a Grexit. If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
http://www.workersliberty.org/system/files/milios.pdf
"Communist Dilemmas on the Greek Euro-Crisis: To Exit or
Not to Exit?
Christos Laskos, John Milios and Euclid Tsakalotos"
I believe if Tsipras and Tsakalotos actually said to the greek people before the election that their plan was to overthrow capitalism and install communism in Europe from within the Eurozone they would have been chased out of the country.
But they actually did publicly say that Syriza would try to change europe with a left wing alliance, so they are covered since they didn't actually lie, but simply they didn't say the whole truth.0 -
Yes, I too got lost there!frpenkridge said:
I'm more curious about ROFLLMFAOWMTITA. (Well the WMTITA bit actually).HYUFD said:
Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
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Because their European idealist project can't be seen to be allowed to fail. The can-kicking has been happening for years and there's no reason to suspect it won't happen again this time.The_Apocalypse said:
Why would they deliberately want to go through constant groundhog days? That's insane.Sandpit said:
You make it sound as if that isn't really the plan...The_Apocalypse said:If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
If it were about economics rather than Politics then either Greece would have left the Euro or Germany paid the bill by now - but neither can be contemplated by the politicians that are in charge of the mess.0 -
So what if Obama blamed Bush, unemployment was still relatively high and Romney was the most centrist GOP candidate. If Syriza is now losing popularity it is because it is seen to have retreated from its anti-austerity position it has just won a mandate for. Which means if it does not return to that position it could well find itself beaten by a party even more further to its left (although Greece is a special case admittedly as it is essentially in a Depression)Speedy said:
Obama blamed Bush and Romney was the worst choice, Syriza won the referendum against the bailout because the bailouts are worse than grexit., but Syriza has guaranteed that it will be crushed at the next election because they U turned the very next day after they won the referendum.HYUFD said:
That does not explain Obama's reelection in 2012 against Mitt Romney or Syriza's victory in last week's referendum, in both elections the economy was not in perfect shapeSpeedy said:
Nope.HYUFD said:The recent victories of Obama, Hollande, Syriza etc also suggests that once a centre-right party has been in power for a reasonable time its opponents do not necessarily have to be Clinton/Blair/Schroder New Democrats to win. That does not mean Kendall would not also win, but it does mean they do not necessarily have to elect her alone to win. Although Corbyn may be a step too far for Middle England I agree
Their victories, and soon their crushing defeats in the case of Hollande and Syriza, was all about the economic disaster by the policies of the governments of the day.
They would have never been elected if George W. Bush, Sarkozi and the half dozen Liberal Greek governments hadn't flushed their country down the drain.
The first post U-turn poll in Greece shows that Syriza's position is now supported by only 16% of the public, with 79% opposed to the 3rd bailout.0 -
I recall people saying how brave Ed was in turning on Murdoch and how it made him look like a real leader.
As i thought at the time,In retrospect its going to look bloody foolish. Even after Rupe has gone, the co and the family will never forget.0 -
With My Tits In The Air!frpenkridge said:
I'm more curious about ROFLLMFAOWMTITA. (Well the WMTITA bit actually).HYUFD said:
Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
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Yep. That has once again been made pretty darn clear, with enough European leaders indicating something has to be offered no matter what, meaning those who are threatening to say no have few cards to play to extract something more. I know some are saying they don't have to say no, but if they don't say yes in time Greece is screwed in any case, but the effect is the same, that is not making a deal in time is basically the EU side saying no rather than the Greeks not giving enough (given they have given in to most demands and the issue is now trust).Sandpit said:
Because their European idealist project can't be seen to be allowed to fail. The can-kicking has been happening for years and there's no reason to suspect it won't happen again this time.The_Apocalypse said:
Why would they deliberately want to go through constant groundhog days? That's insane.Sandpit said:
You make it sound as if that isn't really the plan...The_Apocalypse said:If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
If it were about economics rather than Politics then either Greece would have left the Euro or Germany paid the bill by now - but neither can be contemplated by the politicians that are in charge of the mess.
They won't let the fact the Greeks won't follow through stop a deal, not when it's the only thing now holding it back - pretending its all sorted is preferred to either side pulling the trigger and both sides know it I suspect.0 -
The fieldwork was actually June 19-21HYUFD said:
It was taken on 24th June, ie actually slightly less than 3 weeks ago. Please tell me what events in the intervening period have made Corbyn so popular amongst the general public he has risen from last to first!Disraeli said:
Three weeks! Totally out of date by now, even if it was reliable in the first place.(Which is arguable)HYUFD said:
There have. ORB did a poll amongst the public 3 weeks ago.
A week is a long time in politics.
Two weeks is an age.
Three weeks is an epoch.
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Have You Undertaken Frank Discussions?HYUFD said:
Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
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That may have been true in 1992 and 1997 when the Sun really did swing with the nation, now that is not really so true, as shown by the fact in 1997 the Tories won the same share amongst Sun readers and the nation, in 2015 10% more with Sun readers than the nation, Labour 6% less. The rise of the internet and free papers has reduced its influence tooSquareRoot said:I recall people saying how brave Ed was in turning on Murdoch and how it made him look like a real leader.
As i thought at the time,In retrospect its going to look bloody foolish. Even after Rupe has gone, the co and the family will never forget.0 -
Romney was crap as a candidate, his campaign sucked, and his policies were severely unpopular.HYUFD said:
So what if Obama blamed Bush, unemployment was still relatively high and Romney was the most centrist GOP candidate. If Syriza is now losing popularity it is because it is seen to have retreated from its anti-austerity position it has just won a mandate for. Which means if it does not return to that position it could well find itself beaten by a party even more further to its left (although Greece is a special case admittedly as it is essentially in a Depression)Speedy said:
Obama blamed Bush and Romney was the worst choice, Syriza won the referendum against the bailout because the bailouts are worse than grexit., but Syriza has guaranteed that it will be crushed at the next election because they U turned the very next day after they won the referendum.HYUFD said:
That does not explain Obama's reelection in 2012 against Mitt Romney or Syriza's victory in last week's referendum, in both elections the economy was not in perfect shapeSpeedy said:
Nope.HYUFD said:The recent victories of Obama, Hollande, Syriza etc also suggests that once a centre-right party has been in power for a reasonable time its opponents do not necessarily have to be Clinton/Blair/Schroder New Democrats to win. That does not mean Kendall would not also win, but it does mean they do not necessarily have to elect her alone to win. Although Corbyn may be a step too far for Middle England I agree
Their victories, and soon their crushing defeats in the case of Hollande and Syriza, was all about the economic disaster by the policies of the governments of the day.
They would have never been elected if George W. Bush, Sarkozi and the half dozen Liberal Greek governments hadn't flushed their country down the drain.
The first post U-turn poll in Greece shows that Syriza's position is now supported by only 16% of the public, with 79% opposed to the 3rd bailout.
Obama may not have been ideal, but compared to Romney he was a human being with a brain.
I can list some of Romney's failings:
1. Secret bank accounts in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands.
2. Asking for a tax deduction for feeding his prized horse.
3. Paying a lower tax rate than the vast number of americans.
4. Extremely wooden character " I like Michigan, I like it's lakes, it's trees have the right height", "I like Detroit, I own a couple of Cadillac's", " I'm a severely conservative", "I like to fire people".
5. 47% speech.
6. Wall Street asset plunderer.
In essence Romney was the wrong candidate for an election where everybody blamed people like Romney for their problems.0 -
Mr. Speedy, the 'trees are the right height' comment was Milibandesque in its alien oddness.0
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You're getting over excited again, young SunilSunil_Prasannan said:
With My Tits In The Air!frpenkridge said:
I'm more curious about ROFLLMFAOWMTITA. (Well the WMTITA bit actually).HYUFD said:
Highly Youthful Unionist Free Democrat!Sunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD - what does the acronym HYUFD stand for? Just curious!
It's "With My Trotters In The Air"
(Seth was fond of pigs, especially @Mick_Pork)
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It compared those who responded with a favourable opinion of a candidate to those who responded with a negative opinion to get a net overall figure. The fact Corbyn had a clear net negative, Kendall and Burnham clear net positives would not be that surprising and I certainly would not dismiss itMikeSmithson said:
Those weren't favourability ratings and it is a distortion to say that they are. This is the dataset.HYUFD said:
There have. ORB did a poll amongst the public 3 weeks ago. Burnham had a net favourability of +14%, Kendall +6%, Cooper -6%, Corbyn -15%MikeSmithson said:
There have been no favourability ratings on any of the four so how can Burnham have the highest net favourables?HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-andy-burnham-considered-the-contender-most-likely-to-improve-partys-general-election-chances-10340208.html
http://www.opinion.co.uk/perch/resources/labourleadershipdata.pdf0 -
This morning:
Harman did not support the cuts to child tax credits in terms of current claimants losing cash.
Harman did support the change to stop child tax credits for 3rd and subsequent children from 2017.0 -
I think it's worse than that:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Speedy, the 'trees are the right height' comment was Milibandesque in its alien oddness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHaMqHh5NZ40 -
Corbyn now in to 8.8 on Betfair. He has a real chance.
I'm still waiting to hear what will happen if he wins.
Will he put his own supporters in the top Shadow Cabinet positions?
Will Burnham, Cooper, Benn, Umunna, Reeves etc serve in the Shadow Cabinet under him? If so, will they agree to go along with Corbyn type policies?
Will the Labour party split?
This is getting serious - is anyone planning for this?0 -
Well 3 days is hardly going to make a differenceMikeSmithson said:
The fieldwork was actually June 19-21HYUFD said:
It was taken on 24th June, ie actually slightly less than 3 weeks ago. Please tell me what events in the intervening period have made Corbyn so popular amongst the general public he has risen from last to first!Disraeli said:
Three weeks! Totally out of date by now, even if it was reliable in the first place.(Which is arguable)HYUFD said:
There have. ORB did a poll amongst the public 3 weeks ago.
A week is a long time in politics.
Two weeks is an age.
Three weeks is an epoch.0 -
Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.0
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No, because Corbyn is all about second preferences, no one has Corbyn as his second preference but Corbyn voters have second preferences and that's what matters.MikeL said:Corbyn now in to 8.8 on Betfair. He has a real chance.
I'm still waiting to hear what will happen if he wins.
Will he put his own supporters in the top Shadow Cabinet positions?
Will Burnham, Cooper, Benn, Umunna, Reeves etc serve in the Shadow Cabinet under him? If so, will they agree to go along with Corbyn type policies?
Will the Labour party split?
This is getting serious - is anyone planning for this?0 -
"Nope.
Their victories, and soon their crushing defeats in the case of Hollande and Syriza, was all about the economic disaster by the policies of the governments of the day.
They would have never been elected if George W. Bush, Sarkozi and the half dozen Liberal Greek governments hadn't flushed their country down the drain.
That does not explain Obama's reelection in 2012 against Mitt Romney or Syriza's victory in last week's referendum, in both elections the economy was not in perfect shape
Obama blamed Bush and Romney was the worst choice, Syriza won the referendum against the bailout because the bailouts are worse than grexit., but Syriza has guaranteed that it will be crushed at the next election because they U turned the very next day after they won the referendum.
The first post U-turn poll in Greece shows that Syriza's position is now supported by only 16% of the public, with 79% opposed to the 3rd bailout.
So what if Obama blamed Bush, unemployment was still relatively high and Romney was the most centrist GOP candidate. If Syriza is now losing popularity it is because it is seen to have retreated from its anti-austerity position it has just won a mandate for. Which means if it does not return to that position it could well find itself beaten by a party even more further to its left (although Greece is a special case admittedly as it is essentially in a Depression)
Romney was crap as a candidate, his campaign sucked, and his policies were severely unpopular.
Obama may not have been ideal, but compared to Romney he was a human being with a brain.
I can list some of Romney's failings:
1. Secret bank accounts in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands.
2. Asking for a tax deduction for feeding his prized horse.
3. Paying a lower tax rate than the vast number of americans.
4. Extremely wooden character " I like Michigan, I like it's lakes, it's trees have the right height", "I like Detroit, I own a couple of Cadillac's", " I'm a severely conservative", "I like to fire people".
5. 47% speech.
6. Wall Street asset plunderer.
In essence Romney was the wrong candidate for an election where everybody blamed people like Romney for their problems."
Romney was a former governor, a successful businessman and relatively moderate in GOP terms, indeed even despite most of the events you mention he actually had a small lead over Obama after the first debate, yet Obama still beat him0 -
Hollande is looking for left wing allies in the EU, that's why his men have been helping the Greek government draft their latest proposals.Speedy said:
Here you go in black and white:The_Apocalypse said:
Tsakalotos wants to do what from within the Eurozone? Is he out of his mind? I can't believe Greeks elected these idiots!Speedy said:
They will never opt out for Grexit, Tsipras is ideologically infatuated with Europe and Tsakalotos wants to overthrow capitalism and install communism from inside the Eurozone.The_Apocalypse said:Looking at the proposals Greece apparently has to agree to, bloody hell! And some thought that Syriza and Tsipras out-smarted the EU? The Greeks really should opt for a Grexit. If the EU is dumb enough to bail them out for a third time, we'll hear again going through the same situation in six months time.
http://www.workersliberty.org/system/files/milios.pdf
"Communist Dilemmas on the Greek Euro-Crisis: To Exit or
Not to Exit?
Christos Laskos, John Milios and Euclid Tsakalotos"
I believe if Tsipras and Tsakalotos actually said to the greek people before the election that their plan was to overthrow capitalism and install communism in Europe from within the Eurozone they would have been chased out of the country.
But they actually did publicly say that Syriza would try to change europe with a left wing alliance, so they are covered since they didn't actually lie, but simply they didn't say the whole truth.
0 -
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
0 -
Open Europe @OpenEurope 11m11 minutes ago
.@dpa reports that #Schäuble's #SchäublExit plan getting traction in #Eurogroup, & debt restructuring would be part of 5 year temp #Grexit.
Let's hope that Tsipras is forced to accept it, though I doubt he will, since it clashes with his euro-communist agenda.0 -
Mr. Speedy, but when he's admiring the correctly proportioned trees, does he feel respect?0
-
Can you just imagine? can you just begin to imagine? It might be worth it for the comedy factorMikeL said:Corbyn now in to 8.8 on Betfair. He has a real chance.
I'm still waiting to hear what will happen if he wins.
Will he put his own supporters in the top Shadow Cabinet positions?
Will Burnham, Cooper, Benn, Umunna, Reeves etc serve in the Shadow Cabinet under him? If so, will they agree to go along with Corbyn type policies?
Will the Labour party split?
This is getting serious - is anyone planning for this?0 -
I don't know if he felt respect when he said that, but anyone listening was feeling like they were listening to this guy:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Speedy, but when he's admiring the correctly proportioned trees, does he feel respect?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gId6nrMDmUU0 -
foxinsoxuk said:
Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet firstfelix said:
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
0 -
Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.0 -
If you were one of the thirty one per cent Labour voters, wouldn't you be depressed by Harriet Harman's caving to the thirty seven percent Conservative voters on welfare? Wouldn't you feel very, very tempted to vote Corbyn to tell the party aristocrats that they can't just throw away their own side? I wonder.0
-
It's just possible that it's starting to build a momentum which may be difficult to stop once it gets going. I am sure OGH will remind us all what the odds were on EdM at this stage last time.Moses_ said:
Can you just imagine? can you just begin to imagine? It might be worth it for the comedy factorMikeL said:Corbyn now in to 8.8 on Betfair. He has a real chance.
I'm still waiting to hear what will happen if he wins.
Will he put his own supporters in the top Shadow Cabinet positions?
Will Burnham, Cooper, Benn, Umunna, Reeves etc serve in the Shadow Cabinet under him? If so, will they agree to go along with Corbyn type policies?
Will the Labour party split?
This is getting serious - is anyone planning for this?
Yes it would be funny if it happened, unless you're a Labour party activist thinking about being in government after the 2020 election.0 -
Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.0 -
Now why she should do that? Probably one of two reasons. She realises that at the moment she can in some small way influence policy and raise the points that Labour need to accept to achieve any hope of power.HYUFD said:foxinsoxuk said:Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet firstfelix said:
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
She also knows that when she is not deputy the ones that take over wont agree and will oppose. The one taking over will not be Kendal and finally Ms Harman has accepted she is unlikely to make the cut.0 -
That sounds awfully like "Ignore the will of the Greek people, replace their elected representatives with unelected EU functionaries"Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.0 -
It simply means that Greece will become a colony of Germany, nothing ominous about that. The greeks will be able to elect anyone they like, it just won't matter because the administration will be controlled from Berlin. The Greek people might or might not think that a good idea.Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.0 -
The Tories had Hague then IDS, Howard was a bit better, but not vastly soMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.0 -
This is my thinking. I think Corbyn would be a disaster, but they're just not going to learn otherwise.EPG said:If you were one of the thirty one per cent Labour voters, wouldn't you be depressed by Harriet Harman's caving to the thirty seven percent Conservative voters on welfare? Wouldn't you feel very, very tempted to vote Corbyn to tell the party aristocrats that they can't just throw away their own side? I wonder.
As the last 5 years have shown, if Labour doesn't properly counter Tory arguments then the public will conclude the Tories must be right.0 -
Ensure elected representatives are removed as the EU does not agree with them. When people actually wake up to the fact that this is always the bottom line for these people then at least we will be better off. It is quite simply overthrow by stealth wrapped up in the blanket of imitation legality.Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.
The more I see, I hear and observe the more I want out of this horrific charade that is the EU.0 -
Mr. HYUFD, true, but they also axed IDS, and Hague was in the aftermath of 1997's electoral catastrophe. Labour should be on an upward curve now.
Mr. Llama/Mr. Sandpit, it's almost enough to make one dislike the EU and think the eurozone might actually not be a very good idea.0 -
Maybe, but that makes it all rather pointless to set policy which lasts 5 minutes. In any case while she could have agreed to back the overall benefit cap, which at least Kendall, Burnham and Cooper support, by agreeing to back some of the details like child tax credit cuts she went way beyond what could be agreed onMoses_ said:
Now why she should do that? Probably one of two reasons. She realises that at the moment she can in some small way influence policy and raise the points that Labour need to accept to achieve any hope of power.HYUFD said:foxinsoxuk said:Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet firstfelix said:
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
She also knows that when she is not deputy the ones that take over wont agree and will oppose. The one taking over will not be Kendal and finally Ms Harman has accepted she is unlikely to make the cut.0 -
Indeed, Mr. D, from where we stand the Euro, indeed the whole EU, might not appear a good idea, but then we are not Greeks - who do seem terribly keen on both.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, true, but they also axed IDS, and Hague was in the aftermath of 1997's electoral catastrophe. Labour should be on an upward curve now.
Mr. Llama/Mr. Sandpit, it's almost enough to make one dislike the EU and think the eurozone might actually not be a very good idea.0 -
Yes indeed..... All the same, it might be worth it so that this extreme left view is tested to utter destruction once and for all. The rest of us can then get on with our lives in peace.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.0 -
I said influence, not set. Considerable difference.HYUFD said:
Maybe, but that makes it all rather pointless to set policy which lasts 5 minutes. In any case while she could have agreed to back the overall benefit cap, which at least Kendall, Burnham and Cooper support, by agreeing to back some of the details like child tax credit cuts she went way beyond what could be agreed onMoses_ said:
Now why she should do that? Probably one of two reasons. She realises that at the moment she can in some small way influence policy and raise the points that Labour need to accept to achieve any hope of power.HYUFD said:foxinsoxuk said:Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet firstfelix said:
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
She also knows that when she is not deputy the ones that take over wont agree and will oppose. The one taking over will not be Kendal and finally Ms Harman has accepted she is unlikely to make the cut.0 -
Or does it mean de-politicise the civil service? That would seem very reasonable.Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.0 -
HYUFD = Hellene Yanis' Unmitigated Financial Disaster!0
-
In 1997-2010 terms remember we are only in 2002, Blair still had a clear lead then and won in 2005, if less strongly. The next election though will be in 2020, the equivalent of 2007Morris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, true, but they also axed IDS, and Hague was in the aftermath of 1997's electoral catastrophe. Labour should be on an upward curve now.
Mr. Llama/Mr. Sandpit, it's almost enough to make one dislike the EU and think the eurozone might actually not be a very good idea.0 -
Mr. Foxinsox, I'm unfamiliar with the degree of politicisation of the Greek civil service, to be honest.
More can-kicking nonsense. If they keep this up, they'll still be messing about with this by the time the next recession hits.0 -
One would have thought that the extreme left view was tested to destruction by about 1989. However, in a system of universal franchise those promising unicorns, free owls for all and a pony for every little girl (all paid for by someone else) will not lack an audience.Moses_ said:
Yes indeed..... All the same, it might be worth it so that this extreme left view is tested to utter destruction once and for all. The rest of us can then get on with our lives in peace.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.0 -
However to have influence she needed to persuade all the contendors and bring them on boardMoses_ said:
I said influence, not set. Considerable difference.HYUFD said:
Maybe, but that makes it all rather pointless to set policy which lasts 5 minutes. In any case while she could have agreed to back the overall benefit cap, which at least Kendall, Burnham and Cooper support, by agreeing to back some of the details like child tax credit cuts she went way beyond what could be agreed onMoses_ said:
Now why she should do that? Probably one of two reasons. She realises that at the moment she can in some small way influence policy and raise the points that Labour need to accept to achieve any hope of power.HYUFD said:foxinsoxuk said:Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet firstfelix said:
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
She also knows that when she is not deputy the ones that take over wont agree and will oppose. The one taking over will not be Kendal and finally Ms Harman has accepted she is unlikely to make the cut.0 -
Yep. Exactly what the EU wants to do to any country that defies it. Regime change.Sandpit said:
That sounds awfully like "Ignore the will of the Greek people, replace their elected representatives with unelected EU functionaries"Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.
I find it staggering that anyone can still defend the EU as being in any way democratic.
The Greeks went back to Brussels yesterday with a plan that France helped to draft and which almost everyone yesterday was saying would be enough. The Germans and the EU have decided that economic reform is not enough and they want to humiliate the Greeks and remove any politicians who disagree with them.
0 -
Yes. I'm torn on this too - on one hand I'd like an opposition who hold the govt to account and provide a realistic choice of who to vote for at the next election, on the other I'd like to see the final implosion of the hard left and all the 1970s ideology they stand for. Kendall or Corbyn, who is it to be? Cooper and Burnham are both looking more like continuity Miliband by the day.Moses_ said:
Yes indeed..... All the same, it might be worth it so that this extreme left view is tested to utter destruction once and for all. The rest of us can then get on with our lives in peace.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.0 -
Yes perhaps, I think though she is giving the ants nest a very small poke with a very long stick.HYUFD said:
However to have influence she needed to persuade all the contendors and bring them on boardMoses_ said:
I said influence, not set. Considerable difference.HYUFD said:
Maybe, but that makes it all rather pointless to set policy which lasts 5 minutes. In any case while she could have agreed to back the overall benefit cap, which at least Kendall, Burnham and Cooper support, by agreeing to back some of the details like child tax credit cuts she went way beyond what could be agreed onMoses_ said:
Now why she should do that? Probably one of two reasons. She realises that at the moment she can in some small way influence policy and raise the points that Labour need to accept to achieve any hope of power.HYUFD said:foxinsoxuk said:Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet firstfelix said:
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
She also knows that when she is not deputy the ones that take over wont agree and will oppose. The one taking over will not be Kendal and finally Ms Harman has accepted she is unlikely to make the cut.0 -
Ha young Llama, haven't seen you around for a while, how are things in deepest Sussex ?HurstLlama said:
One would have thought that the extreme left view was tested to destruction by about 1989. However, in a system of universal franchise those promising unicorns, free owls for all and a pony for every little girl (all paid for by someone else) will not lack an audience.Moses_ said:
Yes indeed..... All the same, it might be worth it so that this extreme left view is tested to utter destruction once and for all. The rest of us can then get on with our lives in peace.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.0 -
Fritz-kreigolopolis ?Richard_Tyndall said:
Yep. Exactly what the EU wants to do to any country that defies it. Regime change.Sandpit said:
That sounds awfully like "Ignore the will of the Greek people, replace their elected representatives with unelected EU functionaries"Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.
I find it staggering that anyone can still defend the EU as being in any way democratic.
The Greeks went back to Brussels yesterday with a plan that France helped to draft and which almost everyone yesterday was saying would be enough. The Germans and the EU have decided that economic reform is not enough and they want to humiliate the Greeks and remove any politicians who disagree with them.0 -
Watching Serena Williams it really is a priority that tennis introduce a proper drug testing regime.
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/paul-kimmage-25-year-anti-doping-crusade-exposing-lance-armstrong-disillusion-tour
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”0 -
Here is an example that is inconvenient for the local Europhobes, who have adopted Tsipras as their little pet in the anti-Europe, pro-Putin club:foxinsoxuk said:
Or does it mean de-politicise the civil service? That would seem very reasonable.Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/greek-debt-crisis-journalists-who-criticised-syriza-investigated-by-government-agencies-20150709-gi84l10 -
No. You are confusing the influence of power rather than the power of influence.HYUFD said:
However to have influence she needed to persuade all the contendors and bring them on boardMoses_ said:
I said influence, not set. Considerable difference.HYUFD said:
Maybe, but that makes it all rather pointless to set policy which lasts 5 minutes. In any case while she could have agreed to back the overall benefit cap, which at least Kendall, Burnham and Cooper support, by agreeing to back some of the details like child tax credit cuts she went way beyond what could be agreed onMoses_ said:
Now why she should do that? Probably one of two reasons. She realises that at the moment she can in some small way influence policy and raise the points that Labour need to accept to achieve any hope of power.HYUFD said:foxinsoxuk said:Worth noting that HH was always rather New Labour, always likely to favour the sisterhood and to top it all: Liz was SPAD to HH and to Patricia Hewitt. I am not entirely surprised that HH is possibly leaning towards Liz.
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet firstfelix said:
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!HYUFD said:
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including KendallMikeSmithson said:
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.HYUFD said:
There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until SeptemberScott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Labour shadow ministers want to oppose official party policy, that's fine. But they should resign from the shadow cabinet first.
She also knows that when she is not deputy the ones that take over wont agree and will oppose. The one taking over will not be Kendal and finally Ms Harman has accepted she is unlikely to make the cut.0 -
Another Putin obsessive, seriously?EPG said:
Here is an example that is inconvenient for the local Europhobes, who have adopted Tsipras as their little pet in the anti-Europe, pro-Putin club:foxinsoxuk said:
Or does it mean de-politicise the civil service? That would seem very reasonable.Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/greek-debt-crisis-journalists-who-criticised-syriza-investigated-by-government-agencies-20150709-gi84l10 -
I shall copyright that to you SunilSunil_Prasannan said:HYUFD = Hellene Yanis' Unmitigated Financial Disaster!
0 -
"There is no official party policy at the moment as Harman is the acting leader, not the elected leader, that will have to wait until September
Harman is the democratically elected deputy leader with the remit to be stand in leader while elections take place. The will be just like Tom Watson on the afternoon of May 8 2020 after Burnham quits following another disastrous result for the party.
Being deputy leader is not the same as being leader. She should only be holding the fort not setting policy. Only the next leader who has a mandate from the membership has the power to set policy. Burnham has the highest net favourables of any contendor, including Kendall
So Labour can have no policy with regard to the budget as Harman is only acting leader. Sounds like a plan. Not!
Certainly not without full shadow cabinet discussion and the agreement of all the leadership candidates, Harman announced this policy without fully consulting the shadow cabinet first
Now why she should do that? Probably one of two reasons. She realises that at the moment she can in some small way influence policy and raise the points that Labour need to accept to achieve any hope of power.
She also knows that when she is not deputy the ones that take over wont agree and will oppose. The one taking over will not be Kendal and finally Ms Harman has accepted she is unlikely to make the cut.
Maybe, but that makes it all rather pointless to set policy which lasts 5 minutes. In any case while she could have agreed to back the overall benefit cap, which at least Kendall, Burnham and Cooper support, by agreeing to back some of the details like child tax credit cuts she went way beyond what could be agreed on
I said influence, not set. Considerable difference.
However to have influence she needed to persuade all the contendors and bring them on board
No. You are confusing the influence of power rather than the power of influence."
Well in that case she better use it while she has the chance0 -
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.FalseFlag said:Watching Serena Williams it really is a priority that tennis introduce a proper drug testing regime.
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/paul-kimmage-25-year-anti-doping-crusade-exposing-lance-armstrong-disillusion-tour
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?0 -
Not so bad, Mr. B., not so bad at all and thanks for asking. I have not been around on here due to other projects but a dinner with young Morris Dancer last week gave me a nudge in the correct direction.Alanbrooke said:
Ha young Llama, haven't seen you around for a while, how are things in deepest Sussex ?HurstLlama said:
One would have thought that the extreme left view was tested to destruction by about 1989. However, in a system of universal franchise those promising unicorns, free owls for all and a pony for every little girl (all paid for by someone else) will not lack an audience.Moses_ said:
Yes indeed..... All the same, it might be worth it so that this extreme left view is tested to utter destruction once and for all. The rest of us can then get on with our lives in peace.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.
I hope all is well with you and yours up there in the Midlands. I trust you still think Osborne is a w@nker - his latest budget certainly didn't inspire me with confidence that he was anything other than a political c..t.0 -
ITV Greece needs a bail out of 87 billion.
Deal seems close. Last chance tonight.
Greek Urn being prepared for proverbial kick down the road?0 -
I think Kendall, Burnham and Cooper would all be better than Miliband, Corbyn could be worseSandpit said:
Yes. I'm torn on this too - on one hand I'd like an opposition who hold the govt to account and provide a realistic choice of who to vote for at the next election, on the other I'd like to see the final implosion of the hard left and all the 1970s ideology they stand for. Kendall or Corbyn, who is it to be? Cooper and Burnham are both looking more like continuity Miliband by the day.Moses_ said:
Yes indeed..... All the same, it might be worth it so that this extreme left view is tested to utter destruction once and for all. The rest of us can then get on with our lives in peace.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Moses, better to have a competent opposition that can hold the government to account.
It could be serious for Labour. They've had two abysmal leaders in a row. Three seems like a stretch too far.0 -
Does Serena get a pass because she is black? Probably.matt said:
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.FalseFlag said:Watching Serena Williams it really is a priority that tennis introduce a proper drug testing regime.
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/paul-kimmage-25-year-anti-doping-crusade-exposing-lance-armstrong-disillusion-tour
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
If Shaparova showed up with arms like that I am sure there would be speculation.0 -
Its not being Continuity Ed that is a problem for any Labour candidate. Its being Continuity Labour.0
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Rugby is the next big drugs scandal....matt said:
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.FalseFlag said:Watching Serena Williams it really is a priority that tennis introduce a proper drug testing regime.
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/paul-kimmage-25-year-anti-doping-crusade-exposing-lance-armstrong-disillusion-tour
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
NBA has the most ridiculously weak testing program. They are only just about to start testing for HGH. I don't know now, but even up to a couple of years ago they didn't test for EPO.0 -
Absolutely right they should be investigated. The media watchdog in Greece reported that ahead of the referendum last week the main Greek TV channels showed a total of 47 minutes of coverage of the Yes campaign and only 8 minutes of coverage of the No campaign on the evening before the vote.EPG said:
Here is an example that is inconvenient for the local Europhobes, who have adopted Tsipras as their little pet in the anti-Europe, pro-Putin club:foxinsoxuk said:
Or does it mean de-politicise the civil service? That would seem very reasonable.Morris_Dancer said:Just seen point 11 on the 12 point list on the BBC livefeed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33497309
"De-politicise the Greek administration" sounds rather ominous.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/greek-debt-crisis-journalists-who-criticised-syriza-investigated-by-government-agencies-20150709-gi84l1
If that had been coverage in the UK of a major political vote then Ofcom would have been all over the TV channels in exactly the same way.0
