This is surely an offer that Tsipras is being invited to refuse. No sane politician could accept. Could they?
The former Greek foreign minister Dora Bakoyannis was interviewed on Sky saying that all the parties are united that they will pass whatever legislation is required to get a deal to stay in the Eurozone.
If the Greek political class gets its act together and carries out the structural reforms that are needed we could be saying very different things about the impact of the EU in 2 years' time.
The Greeks have already been through a more severe depression than the USA in 1929-33. They're now being instructed to make it worse.
Quite. But Greece has no good choices. Grexit could be just as bad. It could even be worse. No one really knows, it's never happened before.
Unsurprisingly, Twitter is reporting huge political turmoil in Athens tonight. Syriza is split. Elections loom. Tsipras may be gone by the end of the week.
Chaos.
SYRIZA may be split, but the reason Tsipras sent the austerity document to New Democracy, PASOK and To Potami first is because he knew he was going to split his party and would need their votes to win the confidence of Parliament should it come to that. I wouldn't be surprised if a "Unity government" forms later this week in Greece with Tsipras as the head and the other party leaders given ministerial roles.
I'd thought it was already stated a new Grand Coalition would be forming tomorrow in fact, or was that only a rumour?
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
Does Serena get a pass because she is black? Probably.
If Shaparova showed up with arms like that I am sure there would be speculation.
She is shall we say very muscular... Could be weights though?
I have to say I found it amusing that he/she appeared to question the validity of Serena's victories, simply on the basis that her appearance doesn't conform to stereotypical standards of femininity.
This is surely an offer that Tsipras is being invited to refuse. No sane politician could accept. Could they?
The former Greek foreign minister Dora Bakoyannis was interviewed on Sky saying that all the parties are united that they will pass whatever legislation is required to get a deal to stay in the Eurozone.
If the Greek political class gets its act together and carries out the structural reforms that are needed we could be saying very different things about the impact of the EU in 2 years' time.
The Greeks have already been through a more severe depression than the USA in 1929-33. They're now being instructed to make it worse.
Quite. But Greece has no good choices. Grexit could be just as bad. It could even be worse. No one really knows, it's never happened before.
Unsurprisingly, Twitter is reporting huge political turmoil in Athens tonight. Syriza is split. Elections loom. Tsipras may be gone by the end of the week.
Chaos.
Another day , another meeting and yet another deadline. Wednesday looks like a critical day.
If he survives even that long. What will the Greek Parliament do because without agreement to the demands made it surely will be Grexit on Thursday morning.
I'm sure the deadline will be extended to wait for the result of the Greek election should SYRIZA and Tsipras be given the boot.
So in 1832 the British government got first call on Greek finances to repay the loans made by the British under the Treaty of Constantinople.
How glorious the days of Empire before the EU were!
If the argument is "but the British did it in the 19th century" then I think this whole continent is doomed.
Just pointing out that in or out of the EU Greeces sovereignty was from the beginning compromised by overseas financial institutions. Nothing new under the sun.
I'm not sure we should be making a comparison between gunboat diplomacy by the Empire and anything we have today, that we can speaks volumes.
Our gunboats were not threatening Greece, they were freeing it*.
It was our government (and a couple of others) and financiers that were extracting money from them. Of course as one of the pre-eminent financial centres of the world we do still impinge on other countries in a similar matter to this day. But that is fine because we are British, it is only wrong when European institutions do the same!
*in the battle of Navarino, the last major engagement of wooden ships under sail.
My reading of the Greece situation is that Germany has simply had enough. The political will is simply not there. The temporary suspension from the Eurozone shtick is designed to soften the blow: "we're kicking you out, but you'll be able to come back at some unspecified point in the future!" Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way it's looking.
On the Labour leadership, I do not see any great enthusiasm for Kendall. I get the feeling that many in Labour have not yet been pushed far enough to choose (on the face of it) the most 'electable' (ie centrist) option. They do not yet have the desperation for power. In 05, that was very palpable in the Tory party: they'd had enough of the wilderness years. They wanted a winner. They were desperate to get back into office and would do what it took to achieve that.
I'm still wondering if the result of this Burnham v Kendall debate is going to be that Yvette will come through the middle...
This is surely an offer that Tsipras is being invited to refuse. No sane politician could accept. Could they?
The former Greek foreign minister Dora Bakoyannis was interviewed on Sky saying that all the parties are united that they will pass whatever legislation is required to get a deal to stay in the Eurozone.
If the Greek political class gets its act together and carries out the structural reforms that are needed we could be saying very different things about the impact of the EU in 2 years' time.
The Greeks have already been through a more severe depression than the USA in 1929-33. They're now being instructed to make it worse.
Quite. But Greece has no good choices. Grexit could be just as bad. It could even be worse. No one really knows, it's never happened before.
Unsurprisingly, Twitter is reporting huge political turmoil in Athens tonight. Syriza is split. Elections loom. Tsipras may be gone by the end of the week.
Chaos.
SYRIZA may be split, but the reason Tsipras sent the austerity document to New Democracy, PASOK and To Potami first is because he knew he was going to split his party and would need their votes to win the confidence of Parliament should it come to that. I wouldn't be surprised if a "Unity government" forms later this week in Greece with Tsipras as the head and the other party leaders given ministerial roles.
I'd thought it was already stated a new Grand Coalition would be forming tomorrow in fact, or was that only a rumour?
My reading of the Greece situation is that Germany has simply had enough. The political will is simply not there. The temporary suspension from the Eurozone shtick is designed to soften the blow: "we're kicking you out, but you'll be able to come back at some unspecified point in the future!" Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way it's looking.
On the Labour leadership, I do not see any great enthusiasm for Kendall. I get the feeling that many in Labour have not yet been pushed far enough to choose (on the face of it) the most 'electable' (ie centrist) option. They do not yet have the desperation for power. In 05, that was very palpable in the Tory party: they'd had enough of the wilderness years. They wanted a winner. They were desperate to get back into office and would do what it took to achieve that.
I'm still wondering if the result of this Burnham v Kendall debate is going to be that Yvette will come through the middle...
Well Yvette came through the middle with me this morning. If others attending the hustings have the same response then she could out poll Burnham on first prefs.
There are many sports where the drugs testing programs are a total joke and the governing bodies don't care that much as they just want super human performances to excite the fans and draw in the big crowds.
Wasting your breath, most people are happy to assume that no positives means no problem. Hence sports with laughable testing and everyone can happily look down their nose at the dirty cyclists while enjoying 5 hour tennis matches and 9.6 second 100m races.
A friend of mine met Dwain Chambers and asked him about the drugs etc.. he said you can tell the ones that dont take drugs, theyre the ones that don't run fast enough to get picked
Mr Dancer, according to Grauniad, Greek officials briefing journalists in Brussels. But who knows whether this is more mavericking or whether it is an official government position.
The Finns have said this new deal is "very very very much more severe" than the deal to which Greek said NO last Sunday.
Maybe I am missing something, but this is surely the Finns codedly saying to Athens, "Greece, Don't Sign".
The north wants Greece OUT.
Greece would have to be ready for economic and political suicide if it signed away €50bn worth of assets to Luxembourg for "safe keeping" with all of the proceeds from the sale going to the EU, with the most likely buyer of Greek assets being EU companies (probably publicly owned).
If our government ever committed a piece of vandalism like that I think I would probably join the march with the smelly hippies and anarchists.
Southern European countries obviously still believe paying bills on time is a matter of "honour" and "not humiliating" a country. Amazing. Shows they haven't progressed at all.
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
Joanna Lumley's "Trans-Siberian Adventure" on ITV right now
It was speculated recently that she was partly Indian although I don't know how much truth there is in it.
She was born there, her dad was in the Gurkhas. She also just said she spent some of her childhood in Hong Kong as her father was stationed there for a time.
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
They will have to pull the trigger on Grexit themselves. They have to open the banks at some point or the Greek economy is literally going to be at €0.00
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
They will have to pull the trigger on Grexit themselves. They have to open the banks at some point or the Greek economy is literally going to be at €0.00
Tsipras will never do it, he wants to keep Greece in the Eurozone to promote his communist ideology inside it, as I revealed yesterday when I found Tsakalotos's essay.
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
For the French the Euro is 100% a political project. For Germany it's partly political and partly economic.
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
They will have to pull the trigger on Grexit themselves. They have to open the banks at some point or the Greek economy is literally going to be at €0.00
Tsipras will never do it, he wants to keep Greece in the Eurozone to promote his communist ideology inside it, as I revealed yesterday when I found Tsakalotos's essay.
It might not be in his hands if he tries to sign up to the current deal. I could easily see ANEL sweeping up loads of anti-austerity voters and the anti-austerity rump of SYRIZA kicking out the moderates who have shown themselves to be in favour of a deal. You posted earlier that the government's rating has dropped like a stone since they opened up negotiations for a worse deal than what was previously voted down.
The Finns have said this new deal is "very very very much more severe" than the deal to which Greek said NO last Sunday.
Maybe I am missing something, but this is surely the Finns codedly saying to Athens, "Greece, Don't Sign".
The north wants Greece OUT.
I agree the Finns have always amongst all been very vocal on this. I am sure Germany also wants Greece out as well and using Finns as a proxy . France will be worried of course and who gets first dibs on the 50billion. Talk about giving away the family silver. Whoever foresaw on here that the Greeks would end up with a worse deal deserves credit.
If this is what is signed up to Greece will implode and then explode. Do they have a choice, probably not now. It's looking like BREXIT but never underestimate the EU to fudge.
Of course if it is BREXIT for the next few years we will be discussing when Greece can come back and on what terms? Either that or who is next in line for the bulletin which could include the Euro and the whole rotten European project.
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
For the French the Euro is 100% a political project. For Germany it's partly political and partly economic.
When you make a fundamental economic decision that could have extremely economic consequences purely on a political basis, then catastrophe arrives, the EU is a pure example of it.
The 50bn asset transfer demands makes me think of the Austro-Hungarian ultimatum to Serbia during the July Crisis, supposedly designed, I've read, to be rejected so for the initial hostilities at least, it was hoped, blame would not fall on Austro-Hungary even though it was what they wanted.
I still expect a deal somehow - always expect a deal in Europe is a decent rule of thumb - but it really does feel like the Greeks miscalculated badly. They didn't like the terms, maybe they thought they could get better ones, but they went to extravagant, democratic measures to reject the terms, but then thought they could turn around and accept the same basic terms without too many problems. The other side lost their collective minds at the brinkmanship, and while some have calmed down, the others want to find a way to force the Greeks to say no, rather than formally shut the door on them in punishment for jerking them around before.
The Finns have said this new deal is "very very very much more severe" than the deal to which Greek said NO last Sunday.
Maybe I am missing something, but this is surely the Finns codedly saying to Athens, "Greece, Don't Sign".
The north wants Greece OUT.
I agree the Finns have always amongst all been very vocal on this. I am sure Germany also wants Greece out as well and using Finns as a proxy . France will be worried of course and who gets first dibs on the 50billion. Talk about giving away the family silver. Whoever foresaw on here that the Greeks would end up with a worse deal deserves credit.
If this is what is signed up to Greece will implode and then explode. Do they have a choice, probably not now. It's looking like BREXIT but never underestimate the EU to fudge.
Of course if it is BREXIT for the next few years we will be discussing when Greece can come back and on what terms? Either that or who is next in line for the bulletin which could include the Euro and the whole rotten European project.
If Greece leaves and the door is left open to rejoin the contagion could spread. I'm wondering if this will all be the catalyst for greater political integration of the Eurozone, as a matter of necessity.
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
Greece would surely exit the euro anyway, in your scenario. The banks would dry up, the ATMs would shutter, the economy would plunge into the abyss, and then the government would have to introduce some form of parallel legal tender within the country to keep business going, as everyone took euros elsewhere.
= Grexit.
I doubt it, Tsipras will never even introduce a parallel currency, he's ideologically very narrow and closed minded, for him it's europe or nothing and he wants to stay in europe for all the wrong reasons of eurocommunism .
Well how could it be anything other than humiliating, the Greeks were the ones telling everyone how humiliating the original terms were a couple of weeks ago! I guess they weren't thinking it could get more so, but the fact of some humiliation should not be a surprise to them given their own acceptance of much of the terms. Poor Greece.
I fully expect Tsipras to sign whatever they put in front of him, no matter how loud he screams, as long as it's not Grexit due to ideological reasons.
For anyone wandering about Tsipras's ideology, here are some good starting points:
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
Greece would surely exit the euro anyway, in your scenario. The banks would dry up, the ATMs would shutter, the economy would plunge into the abyss, and then the government would have to introduce some form of parallel legal tender within the country to keep business going, as everyone took euros elsewhere.
= Grexit.
I doubt it, Tsipras will never even introduce a parallel currency, he's ideologically very narrow and closed minded, for him it's europe or nothing and he wants to stay in europe for all the wrong reasons of eurocommunism .
It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a point of fact.
If the ECB refuses to pump more folding money into the Greek financial system (which is what you suggest might happen) then spending and lending will dry up very fast, with calamitous results, and Greeks will have to go back to the drachma, or something like it, within a month.
I fully expect Tsipras to sign whatever they put in front of him, no matter how loud he screams, as long as it's not Grexit due to ideological reasons.
For anyone wandering about Tsipras's ideology, here are some good starting points:
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
Greece would surely exit the euro anyway, in your scenario. The banks would dry up, the ATMs would shutter, the economy would plunge into the abyss, and then the government would have to introduce some form of parallel legal tender within the country to keep business going, as everyone took euros elsewhere.
= Grexit.
I doubt it, Tsipras will never even introduce a parallel currency, he's ideologically very narrow and closed minded, for him it's europe or nothing and he wants to stay in europe for all the wrong reasons of eurocommunism .
It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a point of fact.
If the ECB refuses to pump more folding money into the Greek financial system (which is what you suggest might happen) then spending and lending will dry up very fast, with calamitous results, and Greeks will have to go back to the drachma, or something like it, within a month.
Tsipras is ready to sign any deal to rescue the banking system.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Golden Dawn in the mid-twenties if there is an election soon. That's how bad this deal is. People will feel like they have nowhere else to turn as the Nazi party are going to be the only ones opposing this shit deal.
I fully expect Tsipras to sign whatever they put in front of him, no matter how loud he screams, as long as it's not Grexit due to ideological reasons.
For anyone wandering about Tsipras's ideology, here are some good starting points:
Tom Nuttall 4m4 minutes ago Tom Nuttall @tom_nuttall Neither Merkel, Hollande nor commission want temp Grexit. Unlikely it'll survive into final statement in meaningful form. #PredictionKlaxon
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
Desperate halfwit plays racist card..............LOL
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
Greece would surely exit the euro anyway, in your scenario. The banks would dry up, the ATMs would shutter, the economy would plunge into the abyss, and then the government would have to introduce some form of parallel legal tender within the country to keep business going, as everyone took euros elsewhere.
= Grexit.
I doubt it, Tsipras will never even introduce a parallel currency, he's ideologically very narrow and closed minded, for him it's europe or nothing and he wants to stay in europe for all the wrong reasons of eurocommunism .
It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a point of fact.
If the ECB refuses to pump more folding money into the Greek financial system (which is what you suggest might happen) then spending and lending will dry up very fast, with calamitous results, and Greeks will have to go back to the drachma, or something like it, within a month.
Ideology is beyond facts, SeanT.
As I see it, the Greeks are agreeing to a loan so hostile they were meant to refuse it, to stay in a currency that is self evidently crucifying them, under terms that will make it impossible for them to pay any money back.
Yeap, the priority of all greek governments has been the good of europe ( and the minister's pockets ), not the good of their own country.
Tom Nuttall 4m4 minutes ago Tom Nuttall @tom_nuttall Neither Merkel, Hollande nor commission want temp Grexit. Unlikely it'll survive into final statement in meaningful form. #PredictionKlaxon
What they certainly didn't want is to appear lenient on Greece during the negotiations, as Italy for one was doing by seeming to take the idea off the table right from the start. Beyond that appearance though...well, the next crisis may not occur until after the next German elections maybe, so a climbdown has time to be repaired?
From what I hear, it seems that last night I was correct. France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
Greece would surely exit the euro anyway, in your scenario. The banks would dry up, the ATMs would shutter, the economy would plunge into the abyss, and then the government would have to introduce some form of parallel legal tender within the country to keep business going, as everyone took euros elsewhere.
= Grexit.
I doubt it, Tsipras will never even introduce a parallel currency, he's ideologically very narrow and closed minded, for him it's europe or nothing and he wants to stay in europe for all the wrong reasons of eurocommunism .
It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a point of fact.
If the ECB refuses to pump more folding money into the Greek financial system (which is what you suggest might happen) then spending and lending will dry up very fast, with calamitous results, and Greeks will have to go back to the drachma, or something like it, within a month.
Ideology is beyond facts, SeanT.
As I see it, the Greeks are agreeing to a loan so hostile they were meant to refuse it, to stay in a currency that is self evidently crucifying them, under terms that will make it impossible for them to pay any money back.
Yep... I'm sure I said 2-3 weeks ago the only thing actually being discussed in these negotiations is who the blame for Greece leaving the Euro can be pinned on... Greece wants the EU to say leave, the EU wants Greece just to give up and admit defeat..
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
Does Serena get a pass because she is black? Probably.
If Shaparova showed up with arms like that I am sure there would be speculation.
She is shall we say very muscular... Could be weights though?
I have to say I found it amusing that he/she appeared to question the validity of Serena's victories, simply on the basis that her appearance doesn't conform to stereotypical standards of femininity.
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
Desperate halfwit plays racist card..............LOL
Wow, certain people are showing their colours. I'm sure most people aren't obsessed with Serena Williams' appearance; and nor would use it to devalue her achievements. It is rather sad, that some here are attempting to do that; and says more about them, then it says about her.
Twit. Show me where I "devalued her achievements"?
Serena Williams has a decidedly masculine appearance. She just does. Denying this is fatuous.
Did she get this from drugs, from her genes, or from working out in the gym? I have no idea, neither do I have an opinion. I'm not particularly interested in tennis, from what little I know she seems a like a very fine player of the game.
The devaluing achievements comments, was more directed at @FalseFlag (who appeared to assert that Serena's muscular build meant something dodgy in regard to drug-taking). Nonetheless, the question is why on earth is there a discussion on Serena's appearance in the first place? That's the point I'm trying to make. Serena Williams has won Wimbledon for the sixth time, and instead of a discussion centering on that, it focuses on questioning her appearance; both in terms of the validity of achievements, and whether she conforms to stereotypical standards of femininity.
Don't you have sociology papers to mark?
Cheating is cheating regardless of who does it, it is unfair to other competitors as well as spectators. You seem to lack a moral compass.
So in 1832 the British government got first call on Greek finances to repay the loans made by the British under the Treaty of Constantinople.
How glorious the days of Empire before the EU were!
If the argument is "but the British did it in the 19th century" then I think this whole continent is doomed.
Just pointing out that in or out of the EU Greeces sovereignty was from the beginning compromised by overseas financial institutions. Nothing new under the sun.
I'm not sure we should be making a comparison between gunboat diplomacy by the Empire and anything we have today, that we can speaks volumes.
Greece is perfectly sovereign.
The problem is they want to keep the euro. An awkward fact for many here, but that is the crux, they like it.
No country within the Eurozone is sovereign. That is the problem.
The ability to debase the currency is no more an essential component of sovereignty than the ability to set up forced labour camps. Democracy can function perfectly well with the constraints of existing in zone of shared sovereignty. The problems only start if people elect politicians who promise the impossible.
If you think that the only thing you lose when you join the Eurozone is the ability to debase your currency then you clearly have no idea what membership means.
I didn't say that but when it comes down to it, that's the reason why Greece's debts are different to Japan's.
No, it's not just monetary sovereignty Greece has lost, it has also lost fiscal independence. The Japanese government has fiscal autonomy. Greece is having it's next 30 budgets dictated to it right now in Brussels.
Can only be an improvement on the last 30 for sure
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
Does Serena get a pass because she is black? Probably.
If Shaparova showed up with arms like that I am sure there would be speculation.
She is shall we say very muscular... Could be weights though?
I have to say I found it amusing that he/she appeared to question the validity of Serena's victories, simply on the basis that her appearance doesn't conform to stereotypical standards of femininity.
Even knowing that splits on the left are sort of a joke all over Europe to some degree - my favourite fringe Lefty party in the UK is the wonderfully inappropriately named 'Left Unity' - I find it hard to imagine an electoral or even academic landscape that was able to contain the apparently 17 different parties that merged to form Syriza. How distinct could they possibly have been from one another, as they don't appear at first glance to be casting that wide of a net even now?
Wikipedia is fascinating - I knew Pasok had descended rapidly, but their demise really makes the LDs look like they've had a fine time lately. 43.9% to 4.7% in 6 years
Top drug lord escapes from Mexican jail using and I quote from ITV news
"a mile long tunnel from his prison cell"
More or less likely to have involved bribes to prison officers than the last time he escaped, which was the much less dramatic 'hidden in a laundry basket' technique?
Wikipedia is fascinating - I knew Pasok had descended rapidly, but their demise really makes the LDs look like they've had a fine time lately. 43.9% to 4.7% in 6 years
So Tsipras is ready to accept the unacceptable offer. This guy is a lunatic. It is completely unthinkable for any nation to sign up for a deal that hands over €50bn worth of state assets to Luxembourg.
Tsipras should take the draft agreement back to the Greek people and hold another referendum. At this point I'm just so confused. No means yes, yes means no.
Oh, EU you so whacky. If only you'd stuck to being a customs union.
Wikipedia is fascinating - I knew Pasok had descended rapidly, but their demise really makes the LDs look like they've had a fine time lately. 43.9% to 4.7% in 6 years
Syriza's will be more rapid.
The worry, surely, is who replaces them. If it is ANEL, then fine at least they are a bit sane. If it is Golden Dawn then Europe has properly fucked it up.
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
willfully ignorant? ever heard of operation puerto?
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
Does Serena get a pass because she is black? Probably.
If Shaparova showed up with arms like that I am sure there would be speculation.
She is shall we say very muscular... Could be weights though?
I have to say I found it amusing that he/she appeared to question the validity of Serena's victories, simply on the basis that her appearance doesn't conform to stereotypical standards of femininity.
Wikipedia is fascinating - I knew Pasok had descended rapidly, but their demise really makes the LDs look like they've had a fine time lately. 43.9% to 4.7% in 6 years
Syriza's will be more rapid.
The worry, surely, is who replaces them. If it is ANEL, then fine at least they are a bit sane. If it is Golden Dawn then Europe has properly fucked it up.
ANEL would struggle to get even 1% since they voted for the bailout yesterday, I think it's completely unknown as the right, the centre and the left in Greece have been completely discredited. Even the Communist party has been discredited after their stance on the referendum. Golden Dawn looks like a possibility especially as the immigration crisis has heated up in Greece again.
I don't even know if Greece will have another election before their parliament gets overthrown. Greek democracy was lucky as they had frequent elections during these past 5 years, so the people vented steam on the ballot box, but the next election is due in 4 years, the kettle might blow up this time.
It's very worrying that the only major political party that has credible economic policies in Greece at the moment are the Nazis.
Looks that way. It would be pretty hilarious if the shy Tory effect was also turning into a shy Blairite effect and she ends up winning it somehow, but that seems unlikely to be so significant, even if such a thing exists.
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
Does Serena get a pass because she is black? Probably.
If Shaparova showed up with arms like that I am sure there would be speculation.
She is shall we say very muscular... Could be weights though?
I have to say I found it amusing that he/she appeared to question the validity of Serena's victories, simply on the basis that her appearance doesn't conform to stereotypical standards of femininity.
“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”
Any evidence other than a chippy ex-cyclist who's desperate to spread the sh*t around? The stench still travels with cycling and I can't see it ever going.
Or is it just that Serena isn't white which bothers you?
willfully ignorant? ever heard of operation puerto?
Yes. As far as I know while there were purported to be sports other than cycling involved no there have been no further material repercussions. Although Nadal would not surprise me.
The political developments in Greece are truly shocking. Economic policy is being decided by deception and brinkmanship on all sides. Democracy can not be said to be functioning when governance is being determined in a way wholly opaque to the electorates of Europe. What carnage European integration is now doing. The whole project is out of control.
The political developments in Greece are truly shocking. Economic policy is being decided by deception and brinkmanship on all sides. Democracy can not be said to be functioning when governance is being determined in a way wholly opaque to the electorates of Europe. What carnage European integration is now doing. The whole project is out of control.
"And the city began to take fire, and to burn very direfully; and it burned all that night and all the next day, till vesper-time"
The political developments in Greece are truly shocking. Economic policy is being decided by deception and brinkmanship on all sides. Democracy can not be said to be functioning when governance is being determined in a way wholly opaque to the electorates of Europe. What carnage European integration is now doing. The whole project is out of control.
"And the city began to take fire, and to burn very direfully; and it burned all that night and all the next day, till vesper-time"
Even knowing that splits on the left are sort of a joke all over Europe to some degree - my favourite fringe Lefty party in the UK is the wonderfully inappropriately named 'Left Unity' - I find it hard to imagine an electoral or even academic landscape that was able to contain the apparently 17 different parties that merged to form Syriza. How distinct could they possibly have been from one another, as they don't appear at first glance to be casting that wide of a net even now?
For your delectation I shall repeat something I pointed out on the night of the GE.
I think it's important in the Bermondsey & Old Southwark result (now at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000553 ) not to overlook the controversial battle between Comrade Kingsley Abrams, the joint candidate of Trade Unionist and Sociality Coalition - Left Unity, and Comrade Steve Freeman standing for The Republican Socialist Party, but who was controversially also a member of the Lefty Unity Party.
I love it when left-wing parties stick "Unity" in their names, but it would certainly help if they didn't actually run two candidates against each other in the same constituency... if Comrade Freeman hadn't nabbed 20 votes, then Comrade Abrams might have mustered better than his total of 142 and posed a more serious threat to Simon Hughes and his fellow pro-auterity politicians.
1. Steve Freeman has announced that he is a parliamentary candidates in Bermondsey and Old Southwark for the May 7 general election. He is standing as a Republican Socialist. He is therefore opposing Kingsley Abrams, a candidate jointly backed by the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition and Left Unity. Politically this amounts to sabotage.
2. Comrade Abrams is a former local councillor and was the official Labour candidate in the 2001 general election. He lost to Simon Hughes, but got 30% of the vote. Comrade Abrams fell foul of the Labour Party machine after speaking out against austerity. He describes himself as old Labour and recently resigned from the party after 30 years of membership. Comrade Abrams then offered to stand under the banner of Tusc and LU – an offer that was eagerly accepted at both a local and national level. Southwark LU officially endorsed him on February 25.
3. Though comrade Abrams is not a member of LU, he is without doubt the right candidate to back. He is not only challenging Simon Hughes once again, but mainstream Labour hopeful Nick Coyle. His central slogan is ‘No to austerity’.
4. Comrade Freeman is a member of Left Unity. Till recently he was in charge of its constitutional commission and put himself forward for its national council in internal elections. His criticisms of old Labour and Tusc are well founded. The idea of a Labour Party mark II is illusory and doomed to fail. However, comrade Freeman’s ‘republican socialism’ amounts to little more than a leftwing version of English nationalism.
5. Even if he advocated a politically principled socialist programme comrade Freeman would be wrong to stand. The left in Britain is woefully weak and dividing of our forces in the general election can only but damage our cause. Political criticism is perfectly legitimate – indeed it is required. But when it comes to the May 7 general election our motto should be ‘Unity in action’.
6. We urge comrade Freeman to behave in a responsible manner and immediately step down as a candidate. If he refuses then it is clear that the national council is duty-bound to initiate disciplinary proceedings against him under clause 18(a) of the constitution.
So earnest, bless them. "The left in Britain is woefully weak and dividing of our forces in the general election can only but damage our cause" ... 162 votes would definitely have been better than 142 plus 20...
The political developments in Greece are truly shocking. Economic policy is being decided by deception and brinkmanship on all sides. Democracy can not be said to be functioning when governance is being determined in a way wholly opaque to the electorates of Europe. What carnage European integration is now doing. The whole project is out of control.
and another example of the adage that if you cannot repay a small loan, you have a problem, but if you can't repay a huge loan it's the lender's problem.
I'm not going to wait, a Grexit curse to them all in Brussels :
Jānis Bērziņš @BerzinsJ 21m21 minutes ago Internal polling in our delegation on summit end-time results in guess from 3 to 5 am. #lifer #EUCO #WorkOnSunday #RelaxingAfterPresidency
The political developments in Greece are truly shocking. Economic policy is being decided by deception and brinkmanship on all sides. Democracy can not be said to be functioning when governance is being determined in a way wholly opaque to the electorates of Europe. What carnage European integration is now doing. The whole project is out of control.
and another example of the adage that if you cannot repay a small loan, you have a problem, but if you can't repay a huge loan it's the lender's problem.
Looks to me that the place with the problem is Greece.
The political developments in Greece are truly shocking. Economic policy is being decided by deception and brinkmanship on all sides. Democracy can not be said to be functioning when governance is being determined in a way wholly opaque to the electorates of Europe. What carnage European integration is now doing. The whole project is out of control.
Of course, the European Union was not originally designed as a democracy, and if it were a democracy it would appal anti-Europeans even more than the current, intergovernmentalist union.
One democratic government wants money, and is willing to make certain concessions to get it. As long as Greeks cannot vote taxes on Germans, it is true that it is not democracy, and it is instead one democracy negotiating with dozens of others.
Comments
Talking of cakes.....Did we ever get reform of the CAP for which Blair sacrificed at least half our rebate?
No.
It was our government (and a couple of others) and financiers that were extracting money from them. Of course as one of the pre-eminent financial centres of the world we do still impinge on other countries in a similar matter to this day. But that is fine because we are British, it is only wrong when European institutions do the same!
*in the battle of Navarino, the last major engagement of wooden ships under sail.
On the Labour leadership, I do not see any great enthusiasm for Kendall. I get the feeling that many in Labour have not yet been pushed far enough to choose (on the face of it) the most 'electable' (ie centrist) option. They do not yet have the desperation for power. In 05, that was very palpable in the Tory party: they'd had enough of the wilderness years. They wanted a winner. They were desperate to get back into office and would do what it took to achieve that.
I'm still wondering if the result of this Burnham v Kendall debate is going to be that Yvette will come through the middle...
Spiegel Online calls the Eurogroup document the "catalogue of cruelties". #grexit
Nick Malkoutzis @NickMalkoutzis
Just to give perspective on how mad 50bln Greek asset idea is, #Greece privatisations since '11 worth 5.4 bln http://www.macropolis.gr/?i=portal.en.economy.2316 … #Greece
When his hamstrings go, he'll be a dud.
Edited extra bit: apologies, but I've got to be off.
If our government ever committed a piece of vandalism like that I think I would probably join the march with the smelly hippies and anarchists.
France will never accept Grexit but no one else will accept another bailout, so Greece will be stuck in the eurozone with no money, no loans and no banks.
If only someone would break the will of Hollande or Tsipras to prevent Grexit at all costs, Grexit is the only realistic solution at this point or any point of this crisis.
If this is what is signed up to Greece will implode and then explode. Do they have a choice, probably not now. It's looking like BREXIT but never underestimate the EU to fudge.
Of course if it is BREXIT for the next few years we will be discussing when Greece can come back and on what terms? Either that or who is next in line for the bulletin which could include the Euro and the whole rotten European project.
I still expect a deal somehow - always expect a deal in Europe is a decent rule of thumb - but it really does feel like the Greeks miscalculated badly. They didn't like the terms, maybe they thought they could get better ones, but they went to extravagant, democratic measures to reject the terms, but then thought they could turn around and accept the same basic terms without too many problems. The other side lost their collective minds at the brinkmanship, and while some have calmed down, the others want to find a way to force the Greeks to say no, rather than formally shut the door on them in punishment for jerking them around before.
https://twitter.com/tarapalmeri/status/620319966492008448
Serena Williams is attractive and very shaggable. I think some puntahs are looking at the wrong curves...!
:endex:
The #Greek government may say no if the unofficial briefing from officials is anything to go by #EuroSummit https://twitter.com/londonervince/status/620324910489931776 …
For anyone wandering about Tsipras's ideology, here are some good starting points:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/it/eurocommunism.htm#azcarate
http://www.amazon.com/From-Stalinism-Eurocommunism-Socialism-Country/dp/0860910105
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/68a6b0062cc445968a74607887a01537/us-secretary-state-hopeful-iran-nuke-deal-near
4m4 minutes ago
Rachel O'Brien @robr1
Greek govt source: draft bailout plan 'very bad'; 'sharp exchange' between Merkel and Tsipras; 'trying to find solutions' @AFP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal
I wouldn't be surprised to see Golden Dawn in the mid-twenties if there is an election soon. That's how bad this deal is. People will feel like they have nowhere else to turn as the Nazi party are going to be the only ones opposing this shit deal.
Tom Nuttall
4m4 minutes ago
Tom Nuttall @tom_nuttall
Neither Merkel, Hollande nor commission want temp Grexit. Unlikely it'll survive into final statement in meaningful form. #PredictionKlaxon
4minutes ago
Reuters: Greek PM Tsipras set to fire Energy Minister and Deputy Labour Minister from the cabinet....
Splitting already?
"a mile long tunnel from his prison cell"
Oh, EU you so whacky. If only you'd stuck to being a customs union.
Even the Communist party has been discredited after their stance on the referendum.
Golden Dawn looks like a possibility especially as the immigration crisis has heated up in Greece again.
I don't even know if Greece will have another election before their parliament gets overthrown.
Greek democracy was lucky as they had frequent elections during these past 5 years, so the people vented steam on the ballot box, but the next election is due in 4 years, the kettle might blow up this time.
It's very worrying that the only major political party that has credible economic policies in Greece at the moment are the Nazis.
Sometimes.
And right now, #thisisacoup is trending high across the social media network, - just behind today’s tennis action. Arf.
18m18 minutes ago
Gregor Peter @L0gg0l
BREAKING - TSIPRAS TO PROPOSE GREECE SNAP ELECTIONS IN AUTUMN, BILD SAYS
Paul Mason @paulmasonnews 14m14 minutes ago
In Greece the #ThisIsACoup (#2 hashtag worldwide) being replaced by #TsiprasLeaveEUSummit
"And the city began to take fire, and to burn very direfully; and it burned all that night and all the next day, till vesper-time"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EVZwTMmk8c
I think it's important in the Bermondsey & Old Southwark result (now at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000553 ) not to overlook the controversial battle between Comrade Kingsley Abrams, the joint candidate of Trade Unionist and Sociality Coalition - Left Unity, and Comrade Steve Freeman standing for The Republican Socialist Party, but who was controversially also a member of the Lefty Unity Party.
I love it when left-wing parties stick "Unity" in their names, but it would certainly help if they didn't actually run two candidates against each other in the same constituency... if Comrade Freeman hadn't nabbed 20 votes, then Comrade Abrams might have mustered better than his total of 142 and posed a more serious threat to Simon Hughes and his fellow pro-auterity politicians.
Jānis Bērziņš @BerzinsJ 21m21 minutes ago
Internal polling in our delegation on summit end-time results in guess from 3 to 5 am. #lifer #EUCO #WorkOnSunday #RelaxingAfterPresidency
Goodnight.
21m21 minutes ago
Preben Aamann @PrebenEUspox
Tusk @eucopresident calls a second break for consultations #EuroSummit
Antonis Polemitis
14m14 minutes ago
Antonis Polemitis @polemitis
Syriza does not have an organized Plan B. Why am I not in the least bit surprised?
One democratic government wants money, and is willing to make certain concessions to get it. As long as Greeks cannot vote taxes on Germans, it is true that it is not democracy, and it is instead one democracy negotiating with dozens of others.