politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The UKIP implosion Part 2: Farage accused of being “snarlin
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@nicholaswatt: No 10: @David_Cameron expected to meet @NicolaSturgeon in Scotland on Friday
Is it too much to hope that he also makes a major speech outlining the plans for FFA?0 -
Haha good analogywatford30 said:
It's similar to the various 80's pop groups who fell out with each other, split and reformed as separate bands in the 21st century to raise a bit of cash towards their retirement.Scott_P said:@PickardJE: Arron Banks, Ukip mega-donor, tells @robinbrant that Patrick O'Flynn was "weak performer" in the election.
Are UKIP going to split?
Nige gets to keep the name, Carswell gets to keep the seat and the cash...
There could be 'Carswell's UKIP', and 'Farage's UKIP' both appearing this Summer at the Pavillion Theatre, Cromer but on different dates.
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Anyone seen MikeK about ? still have a bet outstanding than needs settling..0
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So what?Philip_Thompson said:
Take Farage out of the picture and the Lib Dems would still have collapsed, the BNP would still have collapsed and there would still be protest voters looking for a new home.isam said:
It's the truth.. I don't know whether it is a criticism or not but the fact is that most Ukip voters will only have heard of Farage. Yesterday my mate called Carswell 'Carslake' and my my dad called him 'Carsdale'... And he is by far the 2nd most famous kipperJEO said:isam,
It is not vanity to believe that a political party should be more than a single adored party leader, with everyone else mere footsoldiers to do his bidding. I actually find it surprising that a UKIP supporter would articulate this as a vision as it sounds more like the criticism of an opponent. No effective organisation in the world runs like this: not in government, not in business, not in the social sector. All good leaders need to have an effective team around them who have input that is listened to and who feel they are part of the decision making process. If this is the way Douglas Carswell, a highly capable parliamentarian is treated, I can't imagine you'll win a single further defection. It seems like many are putting a personality cult around Farage above the interests of the party.
And while I did not vote for UKIP, I say this as someone that is highly sympathetic, as I feel the policy arguments they make are often very strong. This has caused me to struggle to find arguments to persuade UKIP-waiverers to vote Conservative, but Farage is giving me a lot of fresh ammunition right now.
Everyone's entitled to their view, none if it will make any difference anyway. But political geeks think Carswell is a genius and Farage a rabble rouser, well big deal
As I say I like both but to imagine that Ukips success, and 13% of the vote is a big success as us the euro win, I was possible without Farage is crazy. Take any other kipper out of the picture and it would still have happened0 -
So that's where UKIP got a bulk of its voters from. The notion that UKIP would have stood still while the other protest parties collapsed is just absurd, regardless of Farage they'd still be picking up a significant proportion of those votes.isam said:
So what?Philip_Thompson said:Take Farage out of the picture and the Lib Dems would still have collapsed, the BNP would still have collapsed and there would still be protest voters looking for a new home.
EDIT: Farage was as much as anything a lucky general. He stepped into a void, any half-sane UKIP leader would have done the exact same thing.0 -
@Holbornlolz: HA HAH A HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
https://t.co/RmnBN5VGOp
cuLt is the word you were looking for...0 -
I see no way forward here but for Nigel to properly resign this time. Was a great, great shame he didn't follow through before.
What has happened to UKIP is not Nigel's fault, but success lies in dealing with the realities, not fairness or justice, and the reality is that a great deal of people's poor impressions of UKIP, real or imagined, are personified by Nigel, and will pass from the party with his exit as leader.
In another twist, aparently the police are investigating the Thanet vote (though I suspect it's merely a formality).0 -
Spurs fans 'Harry redknapp has taken us as far as he can' as they lost in the champs league 1/4 finals 5 years ago never to qualify againPhilip_Thompson said:
So that's where UKIP got a bulk of its voters from. The notion that UKIP would have stood still while the other protest parties collapsed is just absurd, regardless of Farage they'd still be picking up a significant proportion of those votes.isam said:
So what?Philip_Thompson said:Take Farage out of the picture and the Lib Dems would still have collapsed, the BNP would still have collapsed and there would still be protest voters looking for a new home.
EDIT: Farage was as much as anything a lucky general. He stepped into a void, any half-sane UKIP leader would have done the exact same thing.0 -
Not so sure. As many people on the doorsteps referenced their temptation with "Nigel's forthright manner" as actually mentioned UKIP the party. He is much of the brand, in the way that Clarkson WAS Top Gear.Philip_Thompson said:
So that's where UKIP got a bulk of its voters from. The notion that UKIP would have stood still while the other protest parties collapsed is just absurd, regardless of Farage they'd still be picking up a significant proportion of those votes.isam said:
So what?Philip_Thompson said:Take Farage out of the picture and the Lib Dems would still have collapsed, the BNP would still have collapsed and there would still be protest voters looking for a new home.
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Let's hope so - hold the SNP accountable for raising the money as well as spending it.Scott_P said:@nicholaswatt: No 10: @David_Cameron expected to meet @NicolaSturgeon in Scotland on Friday
Is it too much to hope that he also makes a major speech outlining the plans for FFA?0 -
Mike Smithson retweeted
Jim Pickard @PickardJE 19m19 minutes ago
Matthew Goodwin ("Dr Ukip"):
"There’s a saying in Ukip, ‘In the history of inflighting, Nigel has never lost.’ That goes back to Kilroy."0 -
Exactly.MarqueeMark said:
Not so sure. As many people on the doorsteps referenced their temptation with "Nigel's forthright manner" as actually mentioned UKIP the party. He is much of the brand, in the way that Clarkson WAS Top Gear.Philip_Thompson said:
So that's where UKIP got a bulk of its voters from. The notion that UKIP would have stood still while the other protest parties collapsed is just absurd, regardless of Farage they'd still be picking up a significant proportion of those votes.isam said:
So what?Philip_Thompson said:Take Farage out of the picture and the Lib Dems would still have collapsed, the BNP would still have collapsed and there would still be protest voters looking for a new home.
Hate top gear myself but the comparison is spot on
Maybe Hammond and May know more about cars and real car people think more of them than Clarkson... Doesn't matter0 -
Surely the time has come for Rusty Lee to run UKIP? Or is she just a stalking horse for the eminence grise, the real power behind the scenes, the coming man? Step forward Lord Sir Admiral Robert Kilroy-Silk0
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I'm now trying to imagine what a personality c*** would be!Scott_P said:@Holbornlolz: HA HAH A HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
https://t.co/RmnBN5VGOp
cuLt is the word you were looking for...0 -
Labour Press Team @labourpress 2m2 minutes ago
Piece on Labour by @DPJHodges in today's Spectator is utter rubbish and fabricated from start to finish.
Who to believe?0 -
Report says UKIP in Kent were barely on speaking terms with Kipper HQ in London for months before the GE campaign.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4439700.ece0 -
Independence For United Kingdom? - IFUK?Bond_James_Bond said:
What about Party for UK Independence? - "PUKI"?antifrank said:
We heard a lot about AIFE stealing lots of UKIP votes last year. I suggest those who still hold to that theory take a look at the result in Solihull this year.TheScreamingEagles said:
The An Independence from Europe Party?Slackbladder said:
Hmm that would be IPUK Not great..Slackbladder said:Someone needs to set up the Independence Party of the United Kingdom at this rate.
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@IsabelHardman: Dramatic intervention in the Ukip row coming up on Coffee House shortly...
I am worried this is not going to live up to the hype now0 -
Apologies if someone already posted this.
http://tinyurl.com/q2xsz3y
A statistician's take on the likelihood of a permanent, misleading poll bias, explaining it and echoing (and praising) the excellent Number Cruncher piece.0 -
Inflighting? Is that what resulted in the light aircraft crash?TGOHF said:Mike Smithson retweeted
Jim Pickard @PickardJE 19m19 minutes ago
Matthew Goodwin ("Dr Ukip"):
"There’s a saying in Ukip, ‘In the history of inflighting, Nigel has never lost.’ That goes back to Kilroy."
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Here's Kilroy!Scott_P said:@IsabelHardman: Dramatic intervention in the Ukip row coming up on Coffee House shortly...
I am worried this is not going to live up to the hype now0 -
Some bits look untrue. Ed Miliband's itinerary in the closing week suggests that someone thought that he was best deployed in seats like North Warwickshire. So the idea that Labour had no idea what was coming looks wrong to me.Tissue_Price said:Labour Press Team @labourpress 2m2 minutes ago
Piece on Labour by @DPJHodges in today's Spectator is utter rubbish and fabricated from start to finish.
Who to believe?
The bits about Ed Balls, however, sound entirely plausible.0 -
I believe the team who said Ed was great and on course to be PM of course.Tissue_Price said:Labour Press Team @labourpress 2m2 minutes ago
Piece on Labour by @DPJHodges in today's Spectator is utter rubbish and fabricated from start to finish.
Who to believe?0 -
Much as people mentioned Clegg prior to 2010 yet in that instance it didn't change that many votes. It's a case of post hoc ergo proper hoc.MarqueeMark said:
Not so sure. As many people on the doorsteps referenced their temptation with "Nigel's forthright manner" as actually mentioned UKIP the party. He is much of the brand, in the way that Clarkson WAS Top Gear.Philip_Thompson said:
So that's where UKIP got a bulk of its voters from. The notion that UKIP would have stood still while the other protest parties collapsed is just absurd, regardless of Farage they'd still be picking up a significant proportion of those votes.isam said:
So what?Philip_Thompson said:Take Farage out of the picture and the Lib Dems would still have collapsed, the BNP would still have collapsed and there would still be protest voters looking for a new home.
People abandoned two of the main protest parties. They needed a new home. They will then rationalise their views accordingly. Had it not been Farage they'd have credited whoever else was wearing his crown.0 -
@IsabelHardman: Here we are: Source close to Farage says @oflynnmep has ‘personal problems’ http://t.co/ldloJuXDva - good scoop by @SebastianEPayne
The same Patrick O'Flynn who used to be a Fleet Street journalist...
Duck lads!0 -
Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman 16s16 seconds ago
Here we are: Source close to Farage says @oflynnmep has ‘personal problems’ http://specc.ie/1bRJ74h - good scoop by @SebastianEPayne0 -
Worry notScott_P said:@IsabelHardman: Dramatic intervention in the Ukip row coming up on Coffee House shortly...
I am worried this is not going to live up to the hype now
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Hmm, this is getting dirty http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/05/exclusive-team-farage-suggests-oflynn-has-had-personal-problems/
The briefing war inside Ukip continues with the Nigel Farage camp hitting back at Patrick O’Flynn, after his remarks in the Times today. The battle is between two sides: those who are close to and work for Nigel Farage, and others in the party who are concerned about who the Ukip leader is listening to. Team Farage believe the battle is about power and influence with the leader. But the attacks are getting personal: one source close to the Ukip leader suggests that O’Flynn has had ‘personal problems and this may be the manifestation of them’.
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I actually agree with the argument that Farage is a huge part of UKIP's brand. But any political party that wants to establish itself long-term can not be dependent on one leader. At some point UKIP surely aspires to both leave the European Union and to play a role in the governance of the country. Neither can be done effectively as a one man personality cult.0
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Full United Kingdom Independence Today?Gravitation said:
Independence For United Kingdom? - IFUK?Bond_James_Bond said:
What about Party for UK Independence? - "PUKI"?antifrank said:
We heard a lot about AIFE stealing lots of UKIP votes last year. I suggest those who still hold to that theory take a look at the result in Solihull this year.TheScreamingEagles said:
The An Independence from Europe Party?Slackbladder said:
Hmm that would be IPUK Not great..Slackbladder said:Someone needs to set up the Independence Party of the United Kingdom at this rate.
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As opposed to Nigel, who with Carswell as his only MP has personnel problemsTissue_Price said:Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman 16s16 seconds ago
Here we are: Source close to Farage says @oflynnmep has ‘personal problems’ http://specc.ie/1bRJ74h - good scoop by @SebastianEPayne0 -
Richard Desmond steps in and offers all the warring participants subscriptions to The Express and free jazz mags if they'll calm down.Scott_P said:@IsabelHardman: Dramatic intervention in the Ukip row coming up on Coffee House shortly...
I am worried this is not going to live up to the hype now0 -
I thought the Balls thing sounded like cock-up rather than conspiracy. I simply don't get the sense that Labour felt any of their existing marginals were vulnerable to the Tories except perhaps Halifax.antifrank said:
Some bits look untrue. Ed Miliband's itinerary in the closing week suggests that someone thought that he was best deployed in seats like North Warwickshire. So the idea that Labour had no idea what was coming looks wrong to me.Tissue_Price said:Labour Press Team @labourpress 2m2 minutes ago
Piece on Labour by @DPJHodges in today's Spectator is utter rubbish and fabricated from start to finish.
Who to believe?
The bits about Ed Balls, however, sound entirely plausible.
I think Labour expected between 25-35 gains from the Tories right up until 10pm on election night. Which explains why there was some internal leaking from them as several Labour bigwigs were mortified at the prospect of Ed trying to become PM on barely 260 seats.
PS. Your election review is excellent. Mine will follow at the weekend.0 -
Surprised it's taken the Labour press team, 12 hrs to come back with a rebuttal? - kinda backs up the Labour campaign claims by Hodges?Tissue_Price said:Labour Press Team @labourpress 2m2 minutes ago
Piece on Labour by @DPJHodges in today's Spectator is utter rubbish and fabricated from start to finish.
Who to believe?0 -
Morning all.
I posted a couple of days ago that I thought we were now past peak Kipper. I hadn't expected to be proven so spectacularly right so extraordinarily quickly, and certainly not so entertainingly.
Meanwhile Labour are in civil war, and the LibDems reduced to an irrelevance.
The SNP need to start standing candidates in England & Wales, otherwise at this rate we'll be left without an opposition.0 -
But no-one's suggesting that Nigel would have dissapeared from the scene. The people who like Nigel could still have had Nigel. The party leader tag would just have given someone else a share of the spotlight.isam said:
Exactly.MarqueeMark said:
Not so sure. As many people on the doorsteps referenced their temptation with "Nigel's forthright manner" as actually mentioned UKIP the party. He is much of the brand, in the way that Clarkson WAS Top Gear.Philip_Thompson said:
So that's where UKIP got a bulk of its voters from. The notion that UKIP would have stood still while the other protest parties collapsed is just absurd, regardless of Farage they'd still be picking up a significant proportion of those votes.isam said:
So what?Philip_Thompson said:Take Farage out of the picture and the Lib Dems would still have collapsed, the BNP would still have collapsed and there would still be protest voters looking for a new home.
Hate top gear myself but the comparison is spot on
Maybe Hammond and May know more about cars and real car people think more of them than Clarkson... Doesn't matter
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Activate Neil Hamilton!0
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Free United Kingdom, Un-united Party at the momentLuckyguy1983 said:Full United Kingdom Independence Today?
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Wow, UKIP are behaving like lefties in their internal warfare... they really are going after the labour vote.0
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What a mess!Tissue_Price said:Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman 16s16 seconds ago
Here we are: Source close to Farage says @oflynnmep has ‘personal problems’ http://specc.ie/1bRJ74h - good scoop by @SebastianEPayne
They all need to go find a room somewhere with no windows and no media, have their personal arguments in private then come out and tell the world what they've decided.0 -
National Independence: Guaranteed EU LeaversScott_P said:
Free United Kingdom, Un-united Party at the momentLuckyguy1983 said:Full United Kingdom Independence Today?
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Free United Britain to Achieve Referendum Exit Demands (FUBARED)0
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They did that yesterday, and the outcome was Nigel still wants the cash and Carswell still says no, so here we areSandpit said:They all need to find a room somewhere with no windows and no media, have their personal arguments in private then come out and tell the world what they've decided.
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Free union, consolidated kingdom, opposing foreign freeloaders party0
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Dave could probably announce today he's taking us into the single currency and Nigel and UKIP wouldn't notice or care.0
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Sponsored post on Guido - question is surely whether Ladbrokes or Chuka paid for it!
http://order-order.com/2015/05/14/punters-think-chuka-is-right-man-to-fix-labour-mess/#_@/G9OTXOyqu0UEbg0 -
The similarities are with the SNP, who have so far had a very successful handover from Salmond to Sturgeon which has only strengthened their party.JEO said:I actually agree with the argument that Farage is a huge part of UKIP's brand. But any political party that wants to establish itself long-term can not be dependent on one leader. At some point UKIP surely aspires to both leave the European Union and to play a role in the governance of the country. Neither can be done effectively as a one man personality cult.
Compare and contrast with the last time Salmond stood down (in 2000 I think), when he was replaced with Swinney. It ended up with party infighting and Salmond taking over once again a few years later.
If Carswell doesn't want it, who else aside from Farage can be leader? There doesn't seem to be anyone with a high enough media profile.0 -
Tom Sutcliffe @tds153 May 12
Genuinely impressed that UKIP, a party with only one MP, has already managed a backbench rebellion. Respect.
Ouch.0 -
A handy chart
@GuidoFawkes: UKIP Wars: Who is Backing Whom http://t.co/44OdGCeqDN http://t.co/JKwWiv8Kxq0 -
That's a good thing. It gives the putative leader a chance to try and establish their own persona before the media has a chance to do it for them.JosiasJessop said:
The similarities are with the SNP, who have so far had a very successful handover from Salmond to Sturgeon which has only strengthened their party.JEO said:I actually agree with the argument that Farage is a huge part of UKIP's brand. But any political party that wants to establish itself long-term can not be dependent on one leader. At some point UKIP surely aspires to both leave the European Union and to play a role in the governance of the country. Neither can be done effectively as a one man personality cult.
Compare and contrast with the last time Salmond stood down (in 2000 I think), when he was replaced with Swinney. It ended up with party infighting and Salmond taking over once again a few years later.
If Carswell doesn't want it, who else aside from Farage can be leader? There doesn't seem to be anyone with a high enough media profile.
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From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.0 -
Just the SNP for Dave to destroy now. FFA should do the trick. The prospect of Nicola announcing huge cuts to spending to gobsmacked supporters is almost too delicious to contemplate.0
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I guess Shadsy wants the money on Chuka at 11/8 in a 5 horse race. Way too short, given that the electorate are mainly union members rather than party members.Tissue_Price said:Sponsored post on Guido - question is surely whether Ladbrokes or Chuka paid for it!
http://order-order.com/2015/05/14/punters-think-chuka-is-right-man-to-fix-labour-mess/#_@/G9OTXOyqu0UEbg0 -
For R Nabavi
not aving an effective opposition is really bad news for democracy. It leads to bad government0 -
Not enough. I think he needs to offer a rebase of trident and some sort of co-opting of Scotland into UK foreign policy and defence decisions, now, or the Union is lost.taffys said:Just the SNP for Dave to destroy now. FFA should do the trick. The prospect of Nicola announcing huge cuts to spending to gobsmacked supporters is almost too delicious to contemplate.
Also, perhaps, a guaranteed 2nd independence referendum if Scotland votes to stay In the EU but the rest of the UK votes to leave.0 -
Well O'Flynn's 'profile' is all over the media now.JosiasJessop said:
The similarities are with the SNP, who have so far had a very successful handover from Salmond to Sturgeon which has only strengthened their party.JEO said:I actually agree with the argument that Farage is a huge part of UKIP's brand. But any political party that wants to establish itself long-term can not be dependent on one leader. At some point UKIP surely aspires to both leave the European Union and to play a role in the governance of the country. Neither can be done effectively as a one man personality cult.
Compare and contrast with the last time Salmond stood down (in 2000 I think), when he was replaced with Swinney. It ended up with party infighting and Salmond taking over once again a few years later.
If Carswell doesn't want it, who else aside from Farage can be leader? There doesn't seem to be anyone with a high enough media profile.0 -
I think this is O'Flynn vs Raheem Kassam
O Flynn was meant to be running the campaign hence he stood in an unwinnable seat... Kassam arrived and seems to have Farages ear... He seems to have an uneasy relationship with many on twitter although he did publish my only published article when editor at breitbart
THE MAN HAS POOR JUDGEMENT!0 -
'Are the Tories prepared for this'
Dave is calculating human rights will lose the left more votes than it gains them. The way his enemies are at war with each other he is probably right.0 -
It's Michael "Shock and Awe" Gove who's in charge of this, so on past form I'd expect a diversionary feint to distract them while his tanks penetrate deep into enemy territory before dawn.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.0 -
Scott_P said:
A handy chart
@GuidoFawkes: UKIP Wars: Who is Backing Whom http://t.co/44OdGCeqDN http://t.co/JKwWiv8Kxq</blockquote
Only thing missing from this very British self-immolation are deck chairs and a brass band.0 -
Yes, because far too many people are focussing upon the repeal of the Human Rights Act, and not on the other part, which is to replace it with a British Bill of Rights.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.
I understand Dominic Grieve will be consulted on this.
If Dave can win his, Ken Clarke's and a few other Tories who like the Human Rights Act then he should be ok.
And I say that as a strong advocate of the ECHR.0 -
I don't agree. The media get to create the narrative, not the person. Compare with Sturgeon: she was very well known amongst politicians and journalists before she was made leader. She hit the ground running and had proven experience.Luckyguy1983 said:
That's a good thing. It gives the putative leader a chance to try and establish their own persona before the media has a chance to do it for them.JosiasJessop said:
The similarities are with the SNP, who have so far had a very successful handover from Salmond to Sturgeon which has only strengthened their party.JEO said:I actually agree with the argument that Farage is a huge part of UKIP's brand. But any political party that wants to establish itself long-term can not be dependent on one leader. At some point UKIP surely aspires to both leave the European Union and to play a role in the governance of the country. Neither can be done effectively as a one man personality cult.
Compare and contrast with the last time Salmond stood down (in 2000 I think), when he was replaced with Swinney. It ended up with party infighting and Salmond taking over once again a few years later.
If Carswell doesn't want it, who else aside from Farage can be leader? There doesn't seem to be anyone with a high enough media profile.
But what bothers me most is what this means for the EU referendum. It looks as though the main party that will be fighting for out is more concerned with fighting itself.
I'm veering towards BOO. But are UKIP in a position to lead that campaign at the moment? Will they be in a year's time?0 -
I don't think Ladbrokes have paid for that - they are mentioned once. But if Chuka has arranged it somehow, then that would be an extraordinary error of judgement.Sandpit said:
I guess Shadsy wants the money on Chuka at 11/8 in a 5 horse race. Way too short, given that the electorate are mainly union members rather than party members.Tissue_Price said:Sponsored post on Guido - question is surely whether Ladbrokes or Chuka paid for it!
http://order-order.com/2015/05/14/punters-think-chuka-is-right-man-to-fix-labour-mess/#_@/G9OTXOyqu0UEbg0 -
Well in that case they left the room early and they need a better guard on the door.Scott_P said:
They did that yesterday, and the outcome was Nigel still wants the cash and Carswell still says no, so here we areSandpit said:They all need to find a room somewhere with no windows and no media, have their personal arguments in private then come out and tell the world what they've decided.
Do none of them understand that these are not conversations to be had in public?0 -
I notice that the Greens don't have a problem taking their share of short money.0
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From the Times Diary
The SNP is planning a stunt to annoy Labour on Monday. Several new Scottish MPs were overheard discussing a plan to get into the chamber early and occupy the front bench to make some sort of point about their party being the real opposition. Maybe Harriet Harman should camp out in the members’ lobby on Sunday night to frustrate their knavish tricks.0 -
Labour, UKIP fighting like ferrets in a sack, when to do the Greens turn on Bennett?0
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Considering how negative Guido has been for "two faced" Chuka as he puts it over years it'd be a shock if Chuka paid for it.Tissue_Price said:
I don't think Ladbrokes have paid for that - they are mentioned once. But if Chuka has arranged it somehow, then that would be an extraordinary error of judgement.Sandpit said:
I guess Shadsy wants the money on Chuka at 11/8 in a 5 horse race. Way too short, given that the electorate are mainly union members rather than party members.Tissue_Price said:Sponsored post on Guido - question is surely whether Ladbrokes or Chuka paid for it!
http://order-order.com/2015/05/14/punters-think-chuka-is-right-man-to-fix-labour-mess/#_@/G9OTXOyqu0UEbg0 -
As long as it doesn't end up like Operation Market Garden!Richard_Nabavi said:
It's Michael "Shock and Awe" Gove who's in charge of this, so on past form I'd expect a diversionary feint to distract them while his tanks penetrate deep into enemy territory before dawn.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.0 -
Given their manifesto economics, I suspect the Greens don't have a problem taking money from anyone and everyone.tlg86 said:I notice that the Greens don't have a problem taking their share of short money.
Funny, but unnecessary - I rather think the SNP have already made what points they need to make very strongly indeed!TheScreamingEagles said:From the Times Diary
The SNP is planning a stunt to annoy Labour on Monday. Several new Scottish MPs were overheard discussing a plan to get into the chamber early and occupy the front bench to make some sort of point about their party being the real opposition. Maybe Harriet Harman should camp out in the members’ lobby on Sunday night to frustrate their knavish tricks.
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I fear it might be DieppeCasino_Royale said:
As long as it doesn't end up like Operation Market Garden!Richard_Nabavi said:
It's Michael "Shock and Awe" Gove who's in charge of this, so on past form I'd expect a diversionary feint to distract them while his tanks penetrate deep into enemy territory before dawn.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.0 -
On the Labour leadership, I believe we now have four definite hats thrown into the ring: Andy Burnham, Chuka Umanna, Yvette Cooper, and Liz Kendall.
Anyone think we'll get any more? And will those four all get enough nominations?0 -
Thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, because far too many people are focussing upon the repeal of the Human Rights Act, and not on the other part, which is to replace it with a British Bill of Rights.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.
I understand Dominic Grieve will be consulted on this.
If Dave can win his, Ken Clarke's and a few other Tories who like the Human Rights Act then he should be ok.
And I say that as a strong advocate of the ECHR.
I don't think the UK needs any international arbiter of its Rights. A fully judicially independent UK Supreme Court would be fine. It's the lawyers who won't like it.0 -
Can anyone see UKIP kissing and making up after this? Somethings got to give.0
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Oh dear!TheScreamingEagles said:
I fear it might be DieppeCasino_Royale said:
As long as it doesn't end up like Operation Market Garden!Richard_Nabavi said:
It's Michael "Shock and Awe" Gove who's in charge of this, so on past form I'd expect a diversionary feint to distract them while his tanks penetrate deep into enemy territory before dawn.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.
It's going to be tough. The Conservatives are trying to implement a hard reform going against the existing established consensus.
That will always generate a hell of a lot of heat and noise.0 -
I said above the fundamental problem UKIP have is that their top ranks are made up of people who've already abandoned one party. These are not loyalists so when the going gets tough they haven't got loyal discipline to stick together.Sandpit said:
Well in that case they left the room early and they need a better guard on the door.Scott_P said:
They did that yesterday, and the outcome was Nigel still wants the cash and Carswell still says no, so here we areSandpit said:They all need to find a room somewhere with no windows and no media, have their personal arguments in private then come out and tell the world what they've decided.
Do none of them understand that these are not conversations to be had in public?
There is a saying to never trust a traitor or adulterer as there's nothing to stop them betraying you if they've already betrayed someone else. UKIP's top rank is a party made up of these personalities.0 -
Fascinating interview with Patrick O'Flynn on Sky News.
Says Farage is his hero, and he's not launching a coup, but Farage is surrounded by wrong uns0 -
I hoping Tristram will, for betting reasons. Will he be able to find a distinctive enough position to attract support? There's been wild talk of Keir Starmer. Complete break candidate.Richard_Nabavi said:On the Labour leadership, I believe we now have four definite hats thrown into the ring: Andy Burnham, Chuka Umanna, Yvette Cooper, and Liz Kendall.
Anyone think we'll get any more? And will those four all get enough nominations?0 -
The BoR will as I understand it incorporate the ECoHR word for word. This should not be surprising as we helped write it in 1950-ish)TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, because far too many people are focussing upon the repeal of the Human Rights Act, and not on the other part, which is to replace it with a British Bill of Rights.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.
I understand Dominic Grieve will be consulted on this.
If Dave can win his, Ken Clarke's and a few other Tories who like the Human Rights Act then he should be ok.
And I say that as a strong advocate of the ECHR.
The BoR will give parliament the ability to over rule the Court on some issues - I imagine on issues like voting rights for prisoners.
But I do not believe we are withdrawing the right for UK citizens to take their claims to the ECHR, but it would not mean, as now with the HRA, our own judges putting their own gloss on the wording of the Convention - with the regularly reported absurdities we have seen.0 -
ITV News @itvnews 51s52 seconds ago
Former Ukip MEP Godfrey Bloom has said it is time for Nigel Farage "to move over" http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-05-14/ex-ukip-mep-time-for-nigel-farage-to-move-over/ …0 -
Dieppe was a disaster, but we learned the lessons, and a couple of years, we used that knowledge at NormandyCasino_Royale said:
Oh dear!TheScreamingEagles said:
I fear it might be DieppeCasino_Royale said:
As long as it doesn't end up like Operation Market Garden!Richard_Nabavi said:
It's Michael "Shock and Awe" Gove who's in charge of this, so on past form I'd expect a diversionary feint to distract them while his tanks penetrate deep into enemy territory before dawn.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.
It's going to be tough. The Conservatives are trying to implement a hard reform going against the existing established consensus.
That will always generate a hell of a lot of heat and noise.0 -
I wouldn't listen to O'Flynn - he is "a scribbler with a single tier education"!TheScreamingEagles said:Fascinating interview with Patrick O'Flynn on Sky News.
Says Farage is his hero, and he's not launching a coup, but Farage is surrounded by wrong uns
Extraordinary. Something's gotta give today.
http://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2015/05/ukip-in-fighting-intensifies-oflynn-is-totally-inexperienced-a-scribbler-with-a-single-tier-education.html0 -
Burnham may plan to run Lab candidates in N. Ireland:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/andy-burnham-labour-may-finally-run-candidates-for-election-in-northern-ireland-31220833.html0 -
Which man? You don't make that clear, isam.isam said:I think this is O'Flynn vs Raheem Kassam
O Flynn was meant to be running the campaign hence he stood in an unwinnable seat... Kassam arrived and seems to have Farages ear... He seems to have an uneasy relationship with many on twitter although he did publish my only published article when editor at breitbart
THE MAN HAS POOR JUDGEMENT!
O'Flynn has made his anger, justifiable or not, public, which in its self is a disservice to UKIP. Sad state of affairs.
0 -
0
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At this rate Kilroy-Silk will be planning his next political comeback.dyedwoolie said:Activate Neil Hamilton!
0 -
Ah yes the 'evil adviser' school of passive rebellion, oft used throughout history to explain how resistance to, say, monarch, is not actually treasonous at all.TheScreamingEagles said:Fascinating interview with Patrick O'Flynn on Sky News.
Says Farage is his hero, and he's not launching a coup, but Farage is surrounded by wrong uns0 -
This past week has been a dream for us PB Tories hasn't it?
Everything we dreamed would happen, is is happening.
All we need now is for Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to defect to the Tories.0 -
Oh spare us that old canard.SquareRoot said:For R Nabavi
not having an effective opposition is really bad news for democracy. It leads to bad government
Big majority bad. Poor opposition bad. Minority govt bad. Coalition bad.
0 -
You must be in seventh heaven TSE. Won't last though, nothing does. Sigh!!TheScreamingEagles said:This past week has been a dream for us PB Tories hasn't it?
Everything we dreamed would happen, is is happening.
All we need now is for Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to defect to the Tories.
0 -
That makes sense. It's putting boundaries on international extra-judicial activism that seems key to me here.Flightpathl said:
The BoR will as I understand it incorporate the ECoHR word for word. This should not be surprising as we helped write it in 1950-ish)TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, because far too many people are focussing upon the repeal of the Human Rights Act, and not on the other part, which is to replace it with a British Bill of Rights.Casino_Royale said:From reading the (highly unrepresentative) facebook and Twitter, the Left seem to be mobilising very quickly to resist the repeal of the Human Rights Act as their casus belli. They are choosing their battles.
Are the Tories prepared for this?
There is a PR battle to be won, and they need to start making the case or I could easily see getting picked apart in committee by the SNP and the Lords grinding it to a halt.
I understand Dominic Grieve will be consulted on this.
If Dave can win his, Ken Clarke's and a few other Tories who like the Human Rights Act then he should be ok.
And I say that as a strong advocate of the ECHR.
The BoR will give parliament the ability to over rule the Court on some issues - I imagine on issues like voting rights for prisoners.
But I do not believe we are withdrawing the right for UK citizens to take their claims to the ECHR, but it would not mean, as now with the HRA, our own judges putting their own gloss on the wording of the Convention - with the regularly reported absurdities we have seen.0 -
1 week down, 259 to go 'til we get to vote again.TheScreamingEagles said:This past week has been a dream for us PB Tories hasn't it?
Everything we dreamed would happen, is is happening.
All we need now is for Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to defect to the Tories.0 -
Yup, I'm enjoying it whilst it lasts.MikeK said:
You must be in seventh heaven TSE. Won't last though, nothing does. Sigh!!TheScreamingEagles said:This past week has been a dream for us PB Tories hasn't it?
Everything we dreamed would happen, is is happening.
All we need now is for Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to defect to the Tories.
0 -
If anyone wants an early bet for the next election, I'll offer £10 at evens that UKIP will get less votes at the next election than they did at this one. Any takers? Happy to exchange details.0
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Raheem Kassam... He was editor of Breitbart when I had a blog published on there. Never met him wouldn't know anything about him really.MikeK said:
Which man? You don't make that clear, isam.isam said:I think this is O'Flynn vs Raheem Kassam
O Flynn was meant to be running the campaign hence he stood in an unwinnable seat... Kassam arrived and seems to have Farages ear... He seems to have an uneasy relationship with many on twitter although he did publish my only published article when editor at breitbart
THE MAN HAS POOR JUDGEMENT!
O'Flynn has made his anger, justifiable or not, public, which in its self is a disservice to UKIP. Sad state of affairs.
I have met O'Flynn and he is a v engaging nice guy plus I think he likes a punt!0 -
Twunt is a good oneBond_James_Bond said:
I'm actually struggling to think of any five-letter insults. Four and six letter insults I can think of plenty but the only five letter insult that comes to mind is "lefty".MarqueeMark said:
No five-letter words, Nigelantifrank said:Oh, and Nigel Farage is on Question Time tonight. That should be enjoyable.
0 -
Nothing wrong with the fact that Farage didn't go to university, but if his people really want to attack others for having a 'single-tier education' it deserves noting...
O'Flynn went to King's College, Cambridge!0 -
Jonathan said:
1 week down, 259 to go 'til we get to vote again.TheScreamingEagles said:This past week has been a dream for us PB Tories hasn't it?
Everything we dreamed would happen, is is happening.
All we need now is for Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to defect to the Tories.
Are you not a Labour Party member and able to vote in the leadership election, Jonathan?Jonathan said:
1 week down, 259 to go 'til we get to vote again.TheScreamingEagles said:This past week has been a dream for us PB Tories hasn't it?
Everything we dreamed would happen, is is happening.
All we need now is for Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to defect to the Tories.0 -
And think of the Short Money available ! :-)Richard_Nabavi said:Morning all.
I posted a couple of days ago that I thought we were now past peak Kipper. I hadn't expected to be proven so spectacularly right so extraordinarily quickly, and certainly not so entertainingly.
Meanwhile Labour are in civil war, and the LibDems reduced to an irrelevance.
The SNP need to start standing candidates in England & Wales, otherwise at this rate we'll be left without an opposition.0 -
260 to go. Don't forget an extra day each year and there's two leap years so there's 260 to go.Jonathan said:
1 week down, 259 to go 'til we get to vote again.TheScreamingEagles said:This past week has been a dream for us PB Tories hasn't it?
Everything we dreamed would happen, is is happening.
All we need now is for Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to defect to the Tories.0
