politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s hoping that taking on the non doms could be a narr

dr_spyn said:

All gone pear shaped.

http://order-order.com/2015/04/08/bbc-on-labour-non-dom-gaffe-its-all-gone-pear-shaped/#_@/b-TYV7E9nUDVTA

Does the two EdEd monster not talk with each other?

The journalists need to throw this in Ed's face. They won't which is why most will never realise there is a split and yet again the two Ed's face in different directions at once.

A sad indictment of political debate in this country.

Slackbladder said:

OblitusSumMe said:

I don't understand this non-dom stuff. What tax advantage would accrue from claiming non-dom status as a citizen of Ireland, for example?

It means all their earnings in Ireland is still taxed in Ireland, not the UK.

Are tax rates that much lower in Ireland that it is worth the trouble?

compouter2 said:

Interesting poll tonight.....so I hear!

What are the rumours ?

@steve_hawkes: If you scrap Non-Dom status it ends up costing Britain money- Ed Balls in January http://t.co/Rg4Bqd7SHE

Makes you wonder if Miliband told Balls about this, because one thing Balls isn't, is stupid. And he will have known he said this only 3 months ago.

murali_s said:

JosiasJessop said:

Do any Labour-leaning posters have any comments to make over the success of the government's troubled families scheme?

Or are they more interested in hatred of the rich (excepting 'their' rich) than helping the less fortunate?

I think it's been a qualified success - for that the Government has to be given credit.

I'm not in the business of saying everything the Tories do is bad and everything that Labour does is good - the most calamitous decision made by a PM since the war was made by a Labour PM (Tony Blair).

I also appreciate David Cameron's performance at CHOGM in Colombo last year - he played an absolute blinder...

However, I firmly believe in progressive politics and hence the Labour party despite it's many shortfalls will get my vote.

That was a nice reply to what was perhaps a not-very-nice question. ;-)

glw said:

oxfordsimon said:

A new tax policy that unravels in under 12 hours. That is impressive from Team Eds

Typical Miliband, it is all about the message, the outcomes matter not a jot, and even Balls recognises that such a policy has some serious problems.

But when the BBC are quick to point out the obvious gaffe, you know that Miliband has got it wrong.

He might like the message - but the coverage is now all about the split at the top of Labour. Not what he wanted leading the lunchtime news bulletins

JosiasJessop said:

Do any Labour-leaning posters have any comments to make over the success of the government's troubled families scheme?

Or are they more interested in hatred of the rich (excepting 'their' rich) than helping the less fortunate?

Morning Mr. Jessup,

There is an OCED report which suggests that families helped through the scheme fair no better than those that aren't. Therefore, one can conclude that the scheme is a waste of time and resources, worse it actively encourages some families to change their lifestyle.

@faisalislam: "Some people will say if we change the rules people will leave the country" ... Says miliband... Of Balls.

@GeorgeWParker: Ed M: "some people" will claim that non doms will leave the country. Does he mean Ed B?

Well done to the CCHQ minions who deployed that video of Ed Balls.

Definitely need a pay rise after that.

MikeSmithson said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/585747746788880384

It is just bizarre watching it unroll. It is a piece of 1984 speak. Labour re-writing what they believe within a few weeks of saying it. If the media cannot nail Labour over this, then we probably know that Labour are untouchable.

@Morris_Dancer

"If I were writing the fifth, the first thing I'd do would be to have Shia LaBoeuf killed off)."

Be fair, Mr. D., your second writing speciality is killing off characters, usually in inventive ways.

BenM said:

A howitzer downs the desperate Tory non dom attack:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-55250014e4b08caf50c1ee39

As the Tories said, Balls said this:



I think that it is important that you make sure the non-dom rules work in a fair way. I think they were too lax in the past. Both the last Labour government and this Conservative government have tightened them up. That is something I will continue to look at. I think if you abolish the whole status then probably it ends up costing Britain money because there will be some people who will then leave the country.

But Balls also added at the end:



But I think we can be tougher and we should be and we will.

Indeed - I may be missing something here, but if the Labour policy does not affect 60% of non-doms the whole status is not being abolished, is it?

So Labour are making the story on Non Doms, UKIP on Common Fisheries Policy today.

These probably won't shift any votes but making the political weather is important at this time, even if the seas are choppy.

JosiasJessop said:

HurstLlama said:

JosiasJessop said:

Do any Labour-leaning posters have any comments to make over the success of the government's troubled families scheme?

Or are they more interested in hatred of the rich (excepting 'their' rich) than helping the less fortunate?

Morning Mr. Jessup,

There is an OCED report which suggests that families helped through the scheme fair no better than those that aren't. Therefore, one can conclude that the scheme is a waste of time and resources, worse it actively encourages some families to change their lifestyle.

Morning, mr Llama.

Oh, I haven't seen that report, and if so it may change my mind on something I'm extremely passionate about. Do you have a link?

Ummm. I was actually trying to gently poke fun at Mr Observer and his frequent quotes of an OECD (as opposed to OCED) report on eduction.

I apologise.

@PippaCrerar: Ed Miliband says he has found a way to abolish non dom status that "independent experts" say would raise money- despite what Ed Balls said.

BenM said:

A howitzer downs the desperate Tory non dom attack:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-55250014e4b08caf50c1ee39

As the Tories said, Balls said this:



I think that it is important that you make sure the non-dom rules work in a fair way. I think they were too lax in the past. Both the last Labour government and this Conservative government have tightened them up. That is something I will continue to look at. I think if you abolish the whole status then probably it ends up costing Britain money because there will be some people who will then leave the country.

But Balls also added at the end:



But I think we can be tougher and we should be and we will.

Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben.

You just don't get it. Actually, you don't want to get it.

Labour has massively screwed this up.

Eddie B is on the record opposing scrapping the Non-Dom rules - plain and simple.
Eddie M has just launched a new policy saying he wants to scrap them.

The two most 'important' figures in the Labour party aren't talking to one another.

It is a classic split. A gaffe. A complete balls-up

And with regards to being tougher - didn't you notice that the Non-Dom rules got tougher in the Budget last month?

Oh Ben.

TCPoliticalBetting said:

MikeSmithson said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/585747746788880384

It is just bizarre watching it unroll. It is a piece of 1984 speak. Labour re-writing what they believe within a few weeks of saying it. If the media cannot nail Labour over this, then we probably know that Labour are untouchable.

Can you explain how a policy that does not affect 60% of those with non-dom status contradicts anything that Ed Balls said in January?

oxfordsimon said:

BenM said:

A howitzer downs the desperate Tory non dom attack:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-55250014e4b08caf50c1ee39

As the Tories said, Balls said this:



I think that it is important that you make sure the non-dom rules work in a fair way. I think they were too lax in the past. Both the last Labour government and this Conservative government have tightened them up. That is something I will continue to look at. I think if you abolish the whole status then probably it ends up costing Britain money because there will be some people who will then leave the country.

But Balls also added at the end:



But I think we can be tougher and we should be and we will.

Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben.

You just don't get it. Actually, you don't want to get it.

Labour has massively screwed this up.

Eddie B is on the record opposing scrapping the Non-Dom rules - plain and simple.
Eddie M has just launched a new policy saying he wants to scrap them.

The two most 'important' figures in the Labour party aren't talking to one another.

It is a classic split. A gaffe. A complete balls-up

And with regards to being tougher - didn't you notice that the Non-Dom rules got tougher in the Budget last month?

Oh Ben.

More Guido nonsense. Read the transacript.

Balls states that Labour will toughen up the rules no matter what the cost.

The Tory attack has petered out.

Now, will you Tories do what most of the commentariat is suggesting and bow to the nevitable over non doms?

No - When it comes to Conspiracy or Cock-up – the latter is always the more likely.

MikeSmithson said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/585747746788880384

HurstLlama said:

@Morris_Dancer

"If I were writing the fifth, the first thing I'd do would be to have Shia LaBoeuf killed off)."

Be fair, Mr. D., your second writing speciality is killing off characters, usually in inventive ways.

I drove through prime Llamaland yesterday on my way to Gatwick - even Midhurst. Lovely day for the Downs and not much evidence of elections.

@Plato - I know a few months back, one of the biggest billboard companies in the UK said the GE would not be a big boost for them. So sounds like the companies have known this for a while.

https://twitter.com/SunNation/status/585750942349307905

oxfordsimon said:

BenM said:

oxfordsimon said:

BenM said:

A howitzer downs the desperate Tory non dom attack:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-55250014e4b08caf50c1ee39

As the Tories said, Balls said this:



I think that it is important that you make sure the non-dom rules work in a fair way. I think they were too lax in the past. Both the last Labour government and this Conservative government have tightened them up. That is something I will continue to look at. I think if you abolish the whole status then probably it ends up costing Britain money because there will be some people who will then leave the country.

But Balls also added at the end:



But I think we can be tougher and we should be and we will.

Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben.

You just don't get it. Actually, you don't want to get it.

Labour has massively screwed this up.

Eddie B is on the record opposing scrapping the Non-Dom rules - plain and simple.
Eddie M has just launched a new policy saying he wants to scrap them.

The two most 'important' figures in the Labour party aren't talking to one another.

It is a classic split. A gaffe. A complete balls-up

And with regards to being tougher - didn't you notice that the Non-Dom rules got tougher in the Budget last month?

Oh Ben.

More Guido nonsense. Read the transacript.

Balls states that Labour will toughen up the rules no matter what the cost.

The Tory attack has petered out.

Now, will you Tories do what most of the commentariat is suggesting and bow to the nevitable over non doms?

Keep trying to peddle your line. It isn't working. But do keep peddling.

A competitive tax system is necessary for a thriving economy. Driving wealth creators out is absolutely not.

Balls knew that back in January.

What has changed?


Nothing has changed, the policy is following through what Balls said.

Nothing has changed as far as Tories are concerned. Still defending their rich non domiciled chums.

The voters are watching.

chestnut said:

Labour's Non-Domnishambles.

Brilliant!

Notice that the SI Con/LAB gap which was 15 this morning has now reverted to 16.

TCPoliticalBetting said:

SouthamObserver said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

MikeSmithson said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/585747746788880384

It is just bizarre watching it unroll. It is a piece of 1984 speak. Labour re-writing what they believe within a few weeks of saying it. If the media cannot nail Labour over this, then we probably know that Labour are untouchable.

Can you explain how a policy that does not affect 60% of those with non-dom status contradicts anything that Ed Balls said in January?

I will wait to see what tax experts say, one on Sky earlier said that it was 5,000 people affected of the 110,000+ non-doms. An FT report from Govt data said that on average the payment was already £90k a year of those that paid.

So these 5,000 are apparently going to generate "hundreds of millions more", net, according to RedEd. With none re-arranging their financial affairs............

That'll be a No then.

There is no policy meltdown. CCHQ merely released a partial quote from Balls.

BenM said:

What a brilliant response from Ed:

Miliband says the British people are fed up with a status quo that allows things like the non-dom rule.

As for people threatening to leave the country, we have heard all these arguments before. Some people even threatened to leave the country when Tony Blair became prime minister. It is what people with special privilege say when they want to carry on enjoying those privileges.

He cannot justify the non-dom rule. And he is going to run a country where there is one rule for all.

That will be a basic intuition of a Labour government, he says.

Brilliant. Fresh. Music to mine and millions of voters' ears.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-552503a6e4b006f9525456c0

Meaningless words.

Yours. And his.

Is that the best you can do?

BenM said:

What a brilliant response from Ed:

Miliband says the British people are fed up with a status quo that allows things like the non-dom rule.

As for people threatening to leave the country, we have heard all these arguments before. Some people even threatened to leave the country when Tony Blair became prime minister. It is what people with special privilege say when they want to carry on enjoying those privileges.

He cannot justify the non-dom rule. And he is going to run a country where there is one rule for all.

That will be a basic intuition of a Labour government, he says.

Brilliant. Fresh. Music to mine and millions of voters' ears.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-552503a6e4b006f9525456c0

So if there is one rule for all, then he will get rid of and declare illegal the Sharia courts then?

BenM said:

oxfordsimon said:

BenM said:

oxfordsimon said:

BenM said:

A howitzer downs the desperate Tory non dom attack:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-55250014e4b08caf50c1ee39

As the Tories said, Balls said this:



I think that it is important that you make sure the non-dom rules work in a fair way. I think they were too lax in the past. Both the last Labour government and this Conservative government have tightened them up. That is something I will continue to look at. I think if you abolish the whole status then probably it ends up costing Britain money because there will be some people who will then leave the country.

But Balls also added at the end:



But I think we can be tougher and we should be and we will.

Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben.

You just don't get it. Actually, you don't want to get it.

Labour has massively screwed this up.

Eddie B is on the record opposing scrapping the Non-Dom rules - plain and simple.
Eddie M has just launched a new policy saying he wants to scrap them.

The two most 'important' figures in the Labour party aren't talking to one another.

It is a classic split. A gaffe. A complete balls-up

And with regards to being tougher - didn't you notice that the Non-Dom rules got tougher in the Budget last month?

Oh Ben.

More Guido nonsense. Read the transacript.

Balls states that Labour will toughen up the rules no matter what the cost.

The Tory attack has petered out.

Now, will you Tories do what most of the commentariat is suggesting and bow to the nevitable over non doms?

Keep trying to peddle your line. It isn't working. But do keep peddling.

A competitive tax system is necessary for a thriving economy. Driving wealth creators out is absolutely not.

Balls knew that back in January.

What has changed?

Nothing has changed, the policy is following through what Balls said.

Nothing has changed as far as Tories are concerned. Still defending their rich non domiciled chums.

The voters are watching.

That's the key Ben - the narrative.

As some of the more enlightened right-wing posters (not many I know) have suggested - this is very good politics and will play well with the electorate.

The Tories will be saving the Inheritance tax announcement for next week maybe ?

BenM said:

What a brilliant response from Ed:

Miliband says the British people are fed up with a status quo that allows things like the non-dom rule.

As for people threatening to leave the country, we have heard all these arguments before. Some people even threatened to leave the country when Tony Blair became prime minister. It is what people with special privilege say when they want to carry on enjoying those privileges.

He cannot justify the non-dom rule. And he is going to run a country where there is one rule for all.

That will be a basic intuition of a Labour government, he says.

Brilliant. Fresh. Music to mine and millions of voters' ears.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/08/election-2015-live-blog-labour-ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-loophole#block-552503a6e4b006f9525456c0



People didn't leave the country when Tory Blair came to power - but then he didn't do what Miliband is aiming to do.

"Brilliant. Fresh."

Hardly. Hollande in France already tried similar and it didn't work.

Look back at the comments at around midnight last night with lots of people stating what a terrible campaign the tories were running and how brilliant Labours was.

As i said last night if Eds nom dom thing was such a great policy it would have been done years ago.

SouthamObserver said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

MikeSmithson said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/585747746788880384

It is just bizarre watching it unroll. It is a piece of 1984 speak. Labour re-writing what they believe within a few weeks of saying it. If the media cannot nail Labour over this, then we probably know that Labour are untouchable.

Can you explain how a policy that does not affect 60% of those with non-dom status contradicts anything that Ed Balls said in January?

sorry SO it's all about how it plays. Stop arguing with the ref. It was a great policy announcement for Lab and it is now a great story for the Cons.

SandyRentool said:

Tories getting into a bit of a frenzy this morning. I'm just relieved that I didn't apply to go to the "Labour Event" in Sedgefield I received an invitation to attend.

Lets face it, Labour desperately needed something to make people forget about Blair being all over the news yesterday.

Utterly toxic to the key Lib-Lab switchers imo.

currystar said:

Look back at the comments at around midnight last night with lots of people stating what a terrible campaign the tories were running and how brilliant Labours was.

As i said last night if Eds nom dom thing was such a great policy it would have been done years ago.

Neither of them is running a particulary sharp campaign. The reality is kicking in.

There's no money.

So all we have is spinny wheezes to fill the next 2 weeks. The elctorate wont be that much wiser on what they will do by the end of the campign

Plato said:

BBC Leeds local radio are taking full credit for the intv on R5Live. And very pleased with themselves.

Labour have lost the argument here - all the media are going with GAFFE, no amount of arguing about it on here changes that.

Politics is politics.

SouthamObserver said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

SouthamObserver said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

MikeSmithson said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/585747746788880384

It is just bizarre watching it unroll. It is a piece of 1984 speak. Labour re-writing what they believe within a few weeks of saying it. If the media cannot nail Labour over this, then we probably know that Labour are untouchable.

Can you explain how a policy that does not affect 60% of those with non-dom status contradicts anything that Ed Balls said in January?

I will wait to see what tax experts say, one on Sky earlier said that it was 5,000 people affected of the 110,000+ non-doms. An FT report from Govt data said that on average the payment was already £90k a year of those that paid.

So these 5,000 are apparently going to generate "hundreds of millions more", net, according to RedEd. With none re-arranging their financial affairs............

That'll be a No then.

There is no policy meltdown. CCHQ merely released a partial quote from Balls.

Yep. The Tories did what all parties would do. They released a partial quote and grabbed some attention away from EdM. It was very good politics and Labour would do exactly the same. Let's see where we are with this in a few hours time.

Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon 4 mins4 minutes ago

"The Conservatives are a virtual party... They don't exist in reality," Ed Miliband reassures Labour activists

Errr...what?

Mr. Slackbladder, and who says Miliband's weird?

Maybe he thinks he's Neo.

TOPPING said:

SouthamObserver said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

MikeSmithson said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/585747746788880384

It is just bizarre watching it unroll. It is a piece of 1984 speak. Labour re-writing what they believe within a few weeks of saying it. If the media cannot nail Labour over this, then we probably know that Labour are untouchable.

Can you explain how a policy that does not affect 60% of those with non-dom status contradicts anything that Ed Balls said in January?

sorry SO it's all about how it plays. Stop arguing with the ref. It was a great policy announcement for Lab and it is now a great story for the Cons.

We'll see. Everyone now knows that the Tories released a partial quote designed to give a false impression of the views Balls expressed in January.

oxfordsimon said:

glw said:

oxfordsimon said:

Balls knew that back in January.

What has changed?

The election. Even Miliband realises that you can't actually campaign with a blank sheet of paper, so he has been dreaming up all sorts of "mood music" policies that he hopes will persuade the wavering lefty vote even though they rarely make sense or add up to anything substantial. Lord knows what Miliband will actually do when he is PM, he is probably crossing his fingers that Balls has some workable policies tucked away for emergency use.

Well today's Balls-up makes Miliband's route to Number 10 even harder.

The media love to talk about a split between a Party Leader and their (Shadow) Chancellor.

And the Eds have delivered that on a platter with a very lovely sparkly bow on top

I think because it was Easter, but the housing wheeze announced on Saturday was the same...

Not only did Labour get the wrong name of the ISA they were targetting, they had different names for their own policy on the same press released AND Miliband didn't inform "Team Balls" of it. FT rang up Balls people and they had no idea what they were banging on about when it came to forcing banks* to invest the money in those ISA in a housing fund.

* within 24hrs that unraveled as well, to "encouraged".