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nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

Alanbrooke said:

bigjohnowls said:

Alanbrooke said:

bigjohnowls said:

I think Cowardly Cameron will turn up if the broadcasters stick to their 3 debate plan but offer Clegg the empty chair where Cameron refuses it.

Lets have one debate with at least 7 parties before the manifestos are out sums up Cowardly Cameron,

Those PB Tories who defend his behaviour should be ashamed.

Always good to have the view from the kebab shop.

Oh you are the one who said
"Yeah, the party that gets your kids raped in front of you" aren't you.

So i was already aware that Camerons behaviour would be OK by you.

His behaviour's not that much different than Ed's. I just don't have your blindspot to my own side, nor do I try to take the moral high ground while standing in a swamp.

But you do think its OK to use phrases such as "Yeah, the party that gets your kids raped in front of you"

Which makes your views worthless to me.

"You knew, and you did f*** all" applies to the Labour council and local MP's such as McShane as it does to SY plod.

What do they say about bad pennies

truth hurt does it? Read what Mcshane had to say about it.

Did he have Xmas dinner with the rapists like Thatcher?

I do not defend what happened in Rotherham as it was indefencible but to conclude Labour gets your Kids raped in front of you as Allanbrooke and by the looks of it yourself does is silly.

After all just because Thatcher frequently entertained Saville that does not make the Tories the party that condones rapists does it?

antifrank said:

Pulpstar said:

SouthamObserver said:

Artist said:

If the SNP get a landslide victory in Scotland then there'd be no point in Labour trying to run a minority government as if they're 50 odd seats off a majority, the only way they could realistically pass anything would be through the SNP. It'd have to be a Labour/SNP coalition.

They'd get EV4EL through and would then be in a position to govern. The one problem would be the budget, but the SNP would have to vote with the Tories for that not to pass.

That's all very well if Labour are ahead on seats but if they're a couple behind... well...

Labour could lead a minority government with far fewer seats than the Conservatives. They did so in 1924 after the December 1923 election, where they got 191 seats against the Conservatives' 258.

If Lab+SNP is ahead of the Conservatives, that is what I expect to happen, even if Labour are on c250 and the Conservatives are on c290.

In principle I agree but I think a 40 seat gap might be pushing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1924 might give the Labour grandees pause for thought - not to mention that most of them can't stand Ed.

Tissue_Price said:

antifrank said:

Pulpstar said:

SouthamObserver said:

Artist said:

If the SNP get a landslide victory in Scotland then there'd be no point in Labour trying to run a minority government as if they're 50 odd seats off a majority, the only way they could realistically pass anything would be through the SNP. It'd have to be a Labour/SNP coalition.

They'd get EV4EL through and would then be in a position to govern. The one problem would be the budget, but the SNP would have to vote with the Tories for that not to pass.

That's all very well if Labour are ahead on seats but if they're a couple behind... well...

Labour could lead a minority government with far fewer seats than the Conservatives. They did so in 1924 after the December 1923 election, where they got 191 seats against the Conservatives' 258.

If Lab+SNP is ahead of the Conservatives, that is what I expect to happen, even if Labour are on c250 and the Conservatives are on c290.

In principle I agree but I think a 40 seat gap might be pushing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1924 might give the Labour grandees pause for thought - not to mention that most of them can't stand Ed.

Oh I'm not sure that Ed Miliband would be Prime Minister of such a government!

antifrank said:

Tissue_Price said:

antifrank said:

Pulpstar said:

SouthamObserver said:

Artist said:

If the SNP get a landslide victory in Scotland then there'd be no point in Labour trying to run a minority government as if they're 50 odd seats off a majority, the only way they could realistically pass anything would be through the SNP. It'd have to be a Labour/SNP coalition.

They'd get EV4EL through and would then be in a position to govern. The one problem would be the budget, but the SNP would have to vote with the Tories for that not to pass.

That's all very well if Labour are ahead on seats but if they're a couple behind... well...

Labour could lead a minority government with far fewer seats than the Conservatives. They did so in 1924 after the December 1923 election, where they got 191 seats against the Conservatives' 258.

If Lab+SNP is ahead of the Conservatives, that is what I expect to happen, even if Labour are on c250 and the Conservatives are on c290.

In principle I agree but I think a 40 seat gap might be pushing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1924 might give the Labour grandees pause for thought - not to mention that most of them can't stand Ed.

Oh I'm not sure that Ed Miliband would be Prime Minister of such a government!

Carnage for both Conservatives and Labour if this comes to pass.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Eastwinger said:

Lab propped up by SNP can only spell disaster for Lab. They would be stupid to attempt it.

The SNP will do whatever they can to damage Labour. It's their primary political focus at the moment.

Bear in mind that after May, the voice of Scottish Labour may be almost silenced in Parliament. The temptation for the Labour leadership to cut some form of a deal with the SNP in such circumstances will be that much greater, particularly if it's the seeming choice between power and no power.

nigel4england said:

Smarmeron said:

@richardDodd
And if she had known? She would have immediately stopped any criminal activity?
(being a paragon of honesty)

The spooks will definitely have known.

I really don't think the spooks spent their time during the Cold War monitoring Top of the Pops.

antifrank said:

Bear in mind that after May, the voice of Scottish Labour may be almost silenced in Parliament. The temptation for the Labour leadership to cut some form of a deal with the SNP in such circumstances will be that much greater, particularly if it's the seeming choice between power and no power.

True to an extent, but Labour can't abandon Scotland if they want to win some future election. In any case I don't really see why the SNP should play ball. They'll be trying to be as awkward and unhelpful as possible. The more chaotic Westminster is, the better for them. I therefore don't expect them to do a deal with anyone; they might condescend to abstain or vote with Labour when they feel like it, but I don't think they'll promise anything in advance.

For much the same reason I'm not so sure that they wouldn't find an excuse not to bring down a Conservative minority government for a bit.

@Richard_Nabavi

"I really don't think the spooks spent their time during the Cold War monitoring Top of the Pops".
They certainly had time for all sorts of interesting sidelines, many of them well documented, so who knows what might turn up in the wash?

Seems there were a lot of thing our Maggie didn't want too know. Or do you disagree?

nigel4england said:

I couldn't care less if you want to slag off Thatcher, it's all you lot have got to fall back on anyway.

What I do care about is people like McShane being aware of mass rape in his constituency and ignoring it for ideological reasons.

Labour seems to have lost the WWC vote, the ethnic minority vote is not what it once was, the business vote, the Jewish vote. All they have left is the paedo vote and the block vote. Labour in Bradford West looks promising, especially if the local "community leaders" have given the new PPC their backing.

Morris_Dancer said:

Without the EU fallopian tubes will wither and ovaries will explode.

I exaggerate, but only a little:

"Across in the House of Lords a debate is ongoing over how women's economic empowerment might be affected if the UK were to leave the EU. Baroness Crawley - the former chairwoman of the Women's National Commission, and now Labour peer, warns that "Farage is a feminist issue". She argues that leaving the EU would hurt women's economic empowerment. "The EU is not only the UK's largest economic market, it's also the union that helped establish standards for working men and women for their rights at work," she tells peers. "I would not want to see women in the UK miss out on future rights for work by leaving the European Union.""

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-31735291

I love how europhiles think that all workers rights would disappear if we were to leave the EU. Because as we all know the only place in the entire world where the workers have basic rights is the EU.

nigel4england said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

nigel4england said:

Think they may have interested in someone who mixed with the PM of the day and the Royal Family though.

I doubt it very much.

Why?

Because politicians and royals meet thousands of people. The security services would have been watching Russians, and communists, and anarchists, and Irish terrorist sympathisers, and keeping an eye on civil servants and politicians with access to nuclear secrets and other high-value classified information. Not disc jockies.

@Scott_P
Only if he is insane. He could paint it as "Cameron sends his poodle to defend his government" without much effort.

BJO

"After all just because Thatcher frequently entertained Saville that does not make the Tories the party that condones rapists does it?"

All this garbage about Saville is such a red herring. Thatcher was responsible for turning London and all our city centres into places where homeless kids who couldn't live at home lived rough. She withdrew dole from 16 year olds at a time of mass and increasing unemployment and many of these kids became rent boys and prostitutes.

Anyone travelling through Euston in those years could see them and see them being picked up. I was going out with a girl who worked for Shelter at the time and saw it more closely than most but everyone knew what was going on. Talking about Rotherham Rochdale or anywhere else beginning with an R is just a diversion and for the most part a racist one.

MarqueeMark said:

bigjohnowls said:

nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

Alanbrooke said:

bigjohnowls said:

Alanbrooke said:

bigjohnowls said:

I think Cowardly Cameron will turn up if the broadcasters stick to their 3 debate plan but offer Clegg the empty chair where Cameron refuses it.

Lets have one debate with at least 7 parties before the manifestos are out sums up Cowardly Cameron,

Those PB Tories who defend his behaviour should be ashamed.

Always good to have the view from the kebab shop.

Oh you are the one who said
"Yeah, the party that gets your kids raped in front of you" aren't you.

So i was already aware that Camerons behaviour would be OK by you.

His behaviour's not that much different than Ed's. I just don't have your blindspot to my own side, nor do I try to take the moral high ground while standing in a swamp.

But you do think its OK to use phrases such as "Yeah, the party that gets your kids raped in front of you"

Which makes your views worthless to me.

"You knew, and you did f*** all" applies to the Labour council and local MP's such as McShane as it does to SY plod.

What do they say about bad pennies

truth hurt does it? Read what Mcshane had to say about it.

Did he have Xmas dinner with the rapists like Thatcher?

I do not defend what happened in Rotherham as it was indefencible but to conclude Labour gets your Kids raped in front of you as Allanbrooke and by the looks of it yourself does is silly.

After all just because Thatcher frequently entertained Saville that does not make the Tories the party that condones rapists does it?

Thatcher?

BINGO!

What point do you think i am trying to make?

Might it be "the party that gets your Kids raped in front of you" is not an appropriate comment when aimed at either Tories or Labour?

Alistair said:

Pong said:

Dair said:

antifrank said:

Pulpstar said:

Cognitive dissonance on the SNP:

SNP

But this is small fry compared to predictions for the SNP. The PSA’s experts think the party will win 3.8 to 4.7 per cent of the GB-wide vote in May. That would translate into a high-40s/mid-50s vote share in Scotland. If the SNP win that many votes, they will almost certainly win at least 40 seats, and maybe more than 50.

No one thinks the SNP surge will fade, which would mean 40 or 50 – not 29 – seats.

Yet the PSA’s experts predict the party will win just 29. One forecaster recently summarised the way people predict the SNP as “That number looks high. Let’s half it.”

That seems to be what’s happening here. Academics and journalists don’t think the SNP surge will fade before May. But they still can’t believe the party will go from winning 6 seats in 2010 to 40 or 50 in 2015. Understandably – nothing like that has ever happened before in the history of British elections.

On the evidence that we currently have, why would we think that the SNP are likelier to get fewer than 50 seats than more than that number?

It seems to me that the full set is becoming a realistic possibility.

So far Ashcroft has polled 24 - that's over 40% of the total seats in Scotland. And we have the SNP ahead in 21 of them, tied in one, 1% behind in one and 7% behind in one where 10% were "others" i.e. Greens who may be easily persuaded to vote SNP.

And this is all with discredited 2010 weighting.

Yeah, for my final SNP bets, I skipped the constituencies and went straight for the 7/1 on 0-5 SLAB seats.

That bet looks more like 6/4 to me.

Edit: now cut to 4/1. Probably still value.

I got on that at 40 to 1. Someone on here got on at 120 to 1.

@BBCNormanS: BBC reject DUP appeal to take part in the debates

@Roger - Yes, as famously depicted by Ken Loach in Cathy Come Home

RN

"@Roger - Yes, as famously depicted by Ken Loach in Cathy Come Home"

Exactly.

I see Mr owls is taking full advantage of the freedom to smear people after they are dead. I suppose we must brace ourselves for his regular repeats of Daily/Sunday Mirror stories between now and May 7.

Hayman was an obscure diplomat and was known to the police. It was the DPP who did not prosecute in 1978.
As the Telegraph pointed out ''The new information appeared to undermine claims that the decision not to prosecute Hayman was part of an Establishment conspiracy to cover up child abuse.''

"Sayeeda Warsi and a host of Labour MPs attended the unveiling of a ‘Muslim Manifesto’ yesterday at an event on the parliamentary estate. Did they know it was organised by an ‘Islamic extremist’ who has praised Al-Qaeda?"

http://order-order.com/

@BBCNormanS: DUP condemn decision by the BBC Trust as "farce" - Theyy can't sit in judgement on themselves in this matter #tvdebates

bigjohnowls said:

Scott_P said:

Will he bottle it?

@politicshome: Nick Clegg has written to Ed Miliband challenging him to a one-on-one TV debate http://t.co/nWnUz1Vce0 http://t.co/j38WJwLyT4

Ed should accept IMO would force cowardly Camerons hand or at least avoid the empty chair issue.

I've have written to Ed M this afternoon challenging him to a one-to-one TV debate.

Well, everyone else seems to be :-)

Scott_P said:

@BBCNormanS: BBC reject DUP appeal to take part in the debates

What a surprise. Although why 8 is more of a handful than 7 is beyond me. Still no chance of a debate. How long before we move onto something more interesting...

Hengists_Gift said:

bigjohnowls said:

Scott_P said:

Will he bottle it?

@politicshome: Nick Clegg has written to Ed Miliband challenging him to a one-on-one TV debate http://t.co/nWnUz1Vce0 http://t.co/j38WJwLyT4

Ed should accept IMO would force cowardly Cameron's hand or at least avoid the empty chair issue.

Unless the TV company give UKIP and the Tories the same opportunity it won't happen.

NB When Farage and Clegg debated both Cameron and Miliband were invited but declined.

Invite the four of them again then. If Cameron wants his three biggest rivals to get a prime time slot a week before the election then that's up to him.

@rottenborough
"How long before we move onto something more interesting..."

That depends on the spin doctors, and their various strategies over the coming weeks.
( Guess the strategy, you might beat the polls and the bookies )

Hengists_Gift said:

Scott_P said:

@BBCNormanS: DUP condemn decision by the BBC Trust as "farce" - Theyy can't sit in judgement on themselves in this matter #tvdebates

Which is why the Parliamentary Culture Media and Sport Committee have recommended that the Trust be wound up and such matters as this handed over to Ofcom. Of course then Ofcom will not make judgement on any program until it is broadcast and the Electoral Commission will have nothing to do with anything in Ofcom's remit.

Isn't our bureaucracy worthless!

Our bureaucracy has one over-riding motivation and objective: It is immaterial whether you run an organisation well or badly: just make sure you are no longer there when the brown stuff hits the fan..

As evidence:
The BBC Jimmy Saville affairs
The Mid Staffs shambles
Other NHS shambles

and a real classic:

The Chilcott Enquiry.

Evening all.

Let’s not forget, it was Nick Clegg who challenged Nigel Farage to a "public, open debate" on EU membership on his LBC radio slot

Clegg said “As the "leader of the party of 'in'," he was the right person to debate the issue with Mr Farage, the party leader of ‘out’. or word to that effect.

Ed and Cameron just left them to get on with it – cue lots of threads on how disastrous this will be for Ed & Cameron etc…!

Ishmael_X said:

bigjohnowls said:

MarqueeMark said:

bigjohnowls said:

nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

Alanbrooke said:

bigjohnowls said:

Alanbrooke said:

bigjohnowls said:

I think Cowardly Cameron will turn up if the broadcasters stick to their 3 debate plan but offer Clegg the empty chair where Cameron refuses it.

Lets have one debate with at least 7 parties before the manifestos are out sums up Cowardly Cameron,

Those PB Tories who defend his behaviour should be ashamed.

Always good to have the view from the kebab shop.

Oh you are the one who said
"Yeah, the party that gets your kids raped in front of you" aren't you.

So i was already aware that Camerons behaviour would be OK by you.

His behaviour's not that much different than Ed's. I just don't have your blindspot to my own side, nor do I try to take the moral high ground while standing in a swamp.

But you do think its OK to use phrases such as "Yeah, the party that gets your kids raped in front of you"

Which makes your views worthless to me.

"You knew, and you did f*** all" applies to the Labour council and local MP's such as McShane as it does to SY plod.

What do they say about bad pennies

truth hurt does it? Read what Mcshane had to say about it.

Did he have Xmas dinner with the rapists like Thatcher?

I do not defend what happened in Rotherham as it was indefencible but to conclude Labour gets your Kids raped in front of you as Allanbrooke and by the looks of it yourself does is silly.

After all just because Thatcher frequently entertained Saville that does not make the Tories the party that condones rapists does it?

Thatcher?

BINGO!

What point do you think i am trying to make?

Might it be "the party that gets your Kids raped in front of you" is not an appropriate comment when aimed at either Tories or Labour?

What a weasel word "appropriate" is. It's a perfectly appropriate comment if it's true. As it is of Labour.

Your views are as worthless as Allenbrookes if you believe that

Ishmael_X said:

volcanopete said:

It comes down to intellectual self-confidence.Cameron is aware on that score Ed wins by a mile.He is worried too by the possibility of him being seen as a Dr Jeckell and Mr Hyde when he goes reddy purple and turns into Eton school bully Flashman of the Bullingdon Club.Cameron is frit because he doesn't know which one will turn up..

Jekyll, reddish, Flashman was Rugby not Eton, spaces after full stops please.

Semicolons not commas, please.

chestnut said:

A while back EICIPM seemed inevitable, and TV debates were the Tories' great hope and Labour's great fear.

The swapping of those hopes and fears seems to reflect a situation where EICINPM seems increasingly probable.

It isn't Miliband who has much to gain, Chestnut.

It's Farage. The PM is most vulnerable on the immigration claims he made during the 2010 debates. That's a penalty kick for the purples, if they are ever given the chance to take it.

Absolutely brilliant budget rap video ft Ozzie, Cowardly C, E-Mili, Ball-Dogg & Oops Cleggy Clegg

http://news.sky.com/story/1439460/budgetrapbattle-leaders-rap-the-budget

SimonStClare said:

Evening all.

Let’s not forget, it was Nick Clegg who challenged Nigel Farage to a "public, open debate" on EU membership on his LBC radio slot

Clegg said “As the "leader of the party of 'in'," he was the right person to debate the issue with Mr Farage, the party leader of ‘out’. or word to that effect.

Ed and Cameron just left them to get on with it – cue lots of threads on how disastrous this will be for Ed & Cameron etc…!

Farage had everything to lose, Clegg was destined for 4th or 5th, but as he genuinely believed in what he was standing for he relished the opportunity and sealed the deal for UKIP

Dress a child up for World Books Day, this might amuse those who are hacked off with schools being hickjacked by pressure groups.

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2015-03-05/boy-excluded-from-world-book-day-for-fifty-shades-of-grey-costume/

This is going ever so well.

" PM faces being 'empty-chaired' as TV debates are expected to go ahead

Broadcasters say they won’t let one party dictate the terms, adding they may have legal grounds to show empty pulpit where David Cameron should be"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/05/pm-empty-chaired-broadcasters-set-to-go-ahead-debates

Peter_the_Punter said:

chestnut said:

A while back EICIPM seemed inevitable, and TV debates were the Tories' great hope and Labour's great fear.

The swapping of those hopes and fears seems to reflect a situation where EICINPM seems increasingly probable.

It isn't Miliband who has much to gain, Chestnut.

It's Farage. The PM is most vulnerable on the immigration claims he made during the 2010 debates. That's a penalty kick for the purples, if they are ever given the chance to take it.

Quite so. UKIP owns immigration in the same way that Labour owns the NHS.

Smarmeron said:

This is going ever so well.

" PM faces being 'empty-chaired' as TV debates are expected to go ahead

Broadcasters say they won’t let one party dictate the terms, adding they may have legal grounds to show empty pulpit where David Cameron should be"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/05/pm-empty-chaired-broadcasters-set-to-go-ahead-debates

Depends what you mean by going well, if it spares the tedium of the debates then I agree.

I once again decided I agree with Nick as he challenged Ed to debate him, that had me laughing on the drive home.

Scott_P said:

Will he bottle it?

@politicshome: Nick Clegg has written to Ed Miliband challenging him to a one-on-one TV debate http://t.co/nWnUz1Vce0 http://t.co/j38WJwLyT4

It's getting funnier ;-)

@Alanbrooke
I meant in terms of it blowing over quickly?
(I sort of agree that the last debates were pretty useless but it was more that damned "worm" that got me)