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Can Farage win as the anti-establishment candidate when his only opponent is a man with a dustbin on

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,868
    algarkirk said:

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    Then recent missteps are collectively fatal.

    1) Wrong candidate for Gorton
    2) Wrong candidate for Makerfield
    3) Dealing with £5million Guardian leak by denial and anger
    4) Getting angry about posh George instead of dealing with the issues

    and in the last 24 hours:
    5) Calling the byelection and walking into the offside trap of the strangely united five man defence of Lab, Con. LD, Green, Restore
    6) Responding with bluster and anger since the by election announcement.

    The only senior Reform person I would normally take seriously is Kruger. Since 3rd July he has posted on X exactly twice; once on defence procurement and once on government contracts with Capita. This non barking dog is interesting.

    I would add.
    Wrong campaign for Caerphilly.
    Wrong campaign for Gorton.
    Wrong campaign for Makerfield.

    The common factor. A blithe assumption Reform are the voice of the silent majority. Not the noisy minority.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,265
    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,353
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    Actually the odds on Binface are shorter than I expected. Not great value I’d say, but another minor humiliation for Farbage.


    Count Binface's chances of winning the Clacton by-election have increased overnight

    Ladbrokes now give him a 17% chance!

    Reform UK - 1/8
    Count Binface - 5/1
    50/1 bar

    ladbrokes.com/en/sports/even…

    https://x.com/ladpolitics/status/2074786391150436414?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    I think a few people having a quiet giggle has shifted the dial. Would be hilarious but...no
    I'm all green at a 66% gain on Binface having set autocash out at 50% overnight, should have put more than tenner on it...
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 2,072

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...








    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,907
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    Actually the odds on Binface are shorter than I expected. Not great value I’d say, but another minor humiliation for Farbage.


    Count Binface's chances of winning the Clacton by-election have increased overnight

    Ladbrokes now give him a 17% chance!

    Reform UK - 1/8
    Count Binface - 5/1
    50/1 bar

    ladbrokes.com/en/sports/even…

    https://x.com/ladpolitics/status/2074786391150436414?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    I think a few people having a quiet giggle has shifted the dial. Would be hilarious but...no
    It seems to be fairly good humoured in most places (apart from Ref UK MP feeds) so far.

    "Count Binface vs the novelty candidate" is approved by everyone, as far as I can see.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,159
    edited 10:52AM
    Morning P.B.
    I see that Badenoch is now also backing the Bin. It could genuinely be one of the great distinctive moments in the history of the U.K.'s political tradition, wete he to overturn Reform's supposed momentum. with bathos and the absurd.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,763
    algarkirk said:

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    Then recent missteps are collectively fatal.

    1) Wrong candidate for Gorton
    2) Wrong candidate for Makerfield
    3) Dealing with £5million Guardian leak by denial and anger
    4) Getting angry about posh George instead of dealing with the issues


    What could he do to deal with "the issues"? It's so much money from such a shady source that there is no good explanation.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,907
    Foss said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox has also confirmed he will stand in Clacton. Fox is a friend of Tommy Robinson and debated on the side as Tommy R at the Oxford Union only a few weeks ago so in the absence of Restore and if you ignore Binface it will be a straight fight between Farage and the even more hardline anti woke Islam sceptic Reclaim

    https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/2074602485075894576

    I hope the next "Re-" political party is called Rectal
    Reconnoiter. And all of their MPs are required to wear ghillie suits at all times.
    Rearrange.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 2,072
    MattW said:

    Foss said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox has also confirmed he will stand in Clacton. Fox is a friend of Tommy Robinson and debated on the side as Tommy R at the Oxford Union only a few weeks ago so in the absence of Restore and if you ignore Binface it will be a straight fight between Farage and the even more hardline anti woke Islam sceptic Reclaim

    https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/2074602485075894576

    I hope the next "Re-" political party is called Rectal
    Reconnoiter. And all of their MPs are required to wear ghillie suits at all times.
    Rearrange.
    Revelry.

    I'd vote for that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...








    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488
    From The Conversation, https://theconversation.com/why-nigel-farage-is-resigning-as-an-mp-only-to-stand-again-expert-analysis-287017

    Populist storytelling
    Lone Sorensen, Associate Professor of Political Communication, University of Leeds.

    Farage relies on storytelling, and spent a lot of this speech setting up his own character and position as a victim. He spoke of constant demonisation by the press – “the way I’ve been treated” – and cast himself as the most attacked person by the media in modern times. He also detailed in-person attacks and threats on his life, such as a mob attacking his car.

    [...]

    What’s really interesting is how Farage conflates the mainstream media and the political establishment into one entire, biased entity. He said “it’s not just the media, it applies to other political parties too”, as if the media are a political party. This is a recognised and established populist move, such as Trump’s famous “fake news” line. Populists tend to attack established media, legacy media, and especially public service media and then establish their own media ecosystem that they’re able to control more. When they present the media as the bad guy, any negative reporting becomes a bonus point to be used to their advantage. Any rule-based legal action against him, or action that parliament is taking to scrutinise him, becomes equated with a biased and politicised attack.

    This came across as a very calculated move, one that he had likely done polling on and feels secure in. He will continue framing the by-election as a mini-election — the people versus the establishment — much like Burnham’s campaign in Makerfield.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,434
    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...








    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,907
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukraine hit two more oil refineries overnight, in Saratov and Tartarstan. That's twice they've hit more than one refinery in a single night this month, which brings the total to seven refineries so far in July.


    The Financial Times published this chart earlier in the month, and Ukraine are well on the way to taking this campaign up another notch. They also hit an oil pumping station in Ufa, and 6 more ships trying to supply Crimea

    Saratov looks lovely at this time of year 😉

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/2074651901799411954
    How much of Russia’s domestic heating is oil-based? Winter, after all, is coming.
    At the moment they’re not even thinking that far ahead, they’re wondering if their farms have enough diesel for the harvest.

    The old Soviet apartment blocks in large cities are almost all run on a central heating system, with a large oil-fired water heater in the basement that powers radiators around the building.

    It’s not impossible that more remote parts of Russia encounter a serious humanitarian crisis this winter. The worry is that Putin, as with many previous leaders in that part of the world, doesn’t care too much about his own population and lets it happen.

    If Russia leaves Ukraine, and the Politbureau all go to The Hague, then the international community will send as much aid as required.
    Why would they go to The Hague when it is merely a tool of western hegemony.

    You will never see an Israeli, a Brit or an American there. Irrespective of what they did. It is there to punish African warlords, a former Philippines president and East Europeans.

    Any nations engaging with it are fools
    They would be sent to the Hague because that would be a condition for granting Russia access to the bits of the world economy that the West controls.

    The Hague is a tool of Western hegemony I can get behind.
    Indeed.

    Hand over Putin and Lavrov, and we’ll ease the sanctions enough for you to repair some of those oil refineries in time for winter.
    Serious question:

    Do either Reform or the Tories plan to withdraw from the ICC ?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,907
    maxh said:

    MattW said:

    Foss said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox has also confirmed he will stand in Clacton. Fox is a friend of Tommy Robinson and debated on the side as Tommy R at the Oxford Union only a few weeks ago so in the absence of Restore and if you ignore Binface it will be a straight fight between Farage and the even more hardline anti woke Islam sceptic Reclaim

    https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/2074602485075894576

    I hope the next "Re-" political party is called Rectal
    Reconnoiter. And all of their MPs are required to wear ghillie suits at all times.
    Rearrange.
    Revelry.

    I'd vote for that.
    Revanchist.

    That is nearly accurate in some cases.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488

    Why Is Britain Burning Through Prime Ministers?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOZZmIUUOJ0

    Some ‘data journalism’ in under 3 minutes from Times Wireless.

    Because times a (perceived to be) hard and the ones we've tried have been shit.
    And the voters are not interested in being told the truth. We are a very low growth, low productivity country, where living standards have stagnated and millions do not work and yet we want Scando levels of public services.

    Are our out of work numbers particularly different to the Scandinavian countries? (Trying saying the start of that sentence quickly...)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488

    Is this by-election actually going to happen?

    Surely Farage is going to unresign at some point today?

    You want a bet on that? I think it's happening.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,856
    Apparently Malton Hospital is on fire.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,739
    On AI...

    I'm currently proof-reading honorary graduation orations for our ceremonies next week. One of them reeks of being Chat-GPT/Co-pilot. So many em dashes - always a sign of AI - that my page is bleeding...
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,571
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukraine hit two more oil refineries overnight, in Saratov and Tartarstan. That's twice they've hit more than one refinery in a single night this month, which brings the total to seven refineries so far in July.


    The Financial Times published this chart earlier in the month, and Ukraine are well on the way to taking this campaign up another notch. They also hit an oil pumping station in Ufa, and 6 more ships trying to supply Crimea

    Saratov looks lovely at this time of year 😉

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/2074651901799411954
    How much of Russia’s domestic heating is oil-based? Winter, after all, is coming.
    At the moment they’re not even thinking that far ahead, they’re wondering if their farms have enough diesel for the harvest.

    The old Soviet apartment blocks in large cities are almost all run on a central heating system, with a large oil-fired water heater in the basement that powers radiators around the building.

    It’s not impossible that more remote parts of Russia encounter a serious humanitarian crisis this winter. The worry is that Putin, as with many previous leaders in that part of the world, doesn’t care too much about his own population and lets it happen.

    If Russia leaves Ukraine, and the Politbureau all go to The Hague, then the international community will send as much aid as required.
    Why would they go to The Hague when it is merely a tool of western hegemony.

    You will never see an Israeli, a Brit or an American there. Irrespective of what they did. It is there to punish African warlords, a former Philippines president and East Europeans.

    Any nations engaging with it are fools
    They would be sent to the Hague because that would be a condition for granting Russia access to the bits of the world economy that the West controls.

    The Hague is a tool of Western hegemony I can get behind.
    Indeed.

    Hand over Putin and Lavrov, and we’ll ease the sanctions enough for you to repair some of those oil refineries in time for winter.
    Serious question:

    Do either Reform or the Tories plan to withdraw from the ICC ?
    Are they any good at cricket?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488

    I think this has only just come out today, a well hung parliament, with no easy answers:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20260708.html

    That would be almost ungovernable.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,159
    edited 11:07AM
    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...








    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
    One should never underestimate the popular appetite for disruptive novelty and excitement. Binface will now be, for many Clacton constituents, more of a disruptive novelty and excitement than Farage.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,571

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...








    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
    One should never underestimate the popular appetite for disrupton, or excitement. Binface will now be for many kf the area's cinstutuents more of a disruption and novelty than Farage.
    Binny McBinface?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488
    Sweeney74 said:

    Trump orders US to cut all trade with Spain

    *Telegraph

    Donald Trump ‌has ordered the US to cut off all trade with Spain, calling it a “terrible partner” in Nato.

    The US president told Scott Bessent, his treasury secretary, to cease trade with the country on Wednesday, accusing it of failing to contribute enough to the defence alliance.

    Didn't the Surpreme Court say he couldn't do that?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,762
    Dura_Ace said:

    algarkirk said:

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    Then recent missteps are collectively fatal.

    1) Wrong candidate for Gorton
    2) Wrong candidate for Makerfield
    3) Dealing with £5million Guardian leak by denial and anger
    4) Getting angry about posh George instead of dealing with the issues


    What could he do to deal with "the issues"? It's so much money from such a shady source that there is no good explanation.
    Well, that would be my view too, but trying to be fair.

    Yes, they are in a fatal position from which I think it is impossible to recover, not only because of missteps but because of the actual situation they have placed themselves in with its appearance, perhaps untrue of course, of being a posh boys racket only credible to the dim.

    I repeat the suggestion that it is worth keeping an eye on the doings of Kruger, who is not a natural member of that set and is lying very low.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488
    viewcode said:
    Autoimmune gastritis isn't nice, but it's not a death sentence. Someone with autoimmune gastritis has the same life expectancy as someone without.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,762

    I think this has only just come out today, a well hung parliament, with no easy answers:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20260708.html

    That would be almost ungovernable.
    Of course the most absurd non negotiable of politics is that centrists of Lab and Con could never work together, like the old FF and FG split in Ireland. When in reality they are all social democrats mostly pretending to disagree on fundamentals. In reality they disagree a bit on policy but not much and nothing at all that is objectively central to our lives. Both believe is a gigantically large state, welfarism, NHS, regulated private enterprise and NATO. The distinctions are quite trivial.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    Why Is Britain Burning Through Prime Ministers?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOZZmIUUOJ0

    Some ‘data journalism’ in under 3 minutes from Times Wireless.

    Because times a (perceived to be) hard and the ones we've tried have been shit.
    And the voters are not interested in being told the truth. We are a very low growth, low productivity country, where living standards have stagnated and millions do not work and yet we want Scando levels of public services.

    Yep. Recipe for disaster.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    Sweeney74 said:

    Trump orders US to cut all trade with Spain

    *Telegraph

    Donald Trump ‌has ordered the US to cut off all trade with Spain, calling it a “terrible partner” in Nato.

    The US president told Scott Bessent, his treasury secretary, to cease trade with the country on Wednesday, accusing it of failing to contribute enough to the defence alliance.

    Didn't the Surpreme Court say he couldn't do that?
    I expect there was wiggle room, their ruling was narrow around tariffs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...








    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
    One should never underestimate the popular appetite for disruptive novelty and excitement. Binface will now be, for many Clacton constituents, more of a disruptive novelty and excitement than Farage.
    Sure, but given his voteshare when Reform had half the national share they now do, Farage is likely genuinely popular there.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,762

    I think this has only just come out today, a well hung parliament, with no easy answers:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20260708.html

    It has one easy answer: Reform are neither going to govern, lead a government or be junior partner in one. Only months ago the polling showed Reform winning a trillion seats. That, for centrist democrats is the important bit.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,997

    Much of Farage's appeal, I think, is down to the affable, cheeky chappy persona he presents. His 'one of the lads' schtick is particularly appealing to quite a large subsection of male voters.

    However, over the last couple of months this persona has been largely taken over by a different Farage: angry, grumpy and constantly moaning. I don't think the electorate will find his new persona as attractive as his previous one. I think they prefer Jekyll to Hyde.

    Something similar happened with Jeremy Corbyn between 2017 and 2019. He was suddenly a lot older and less engaging. His new glasses did not help and there was speculation about his health iirc.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,819
    edited 11:21AM
    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,073

    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...

    One of many reasons why there is not going to be a by-election now.

    Just a question of what time today Farage undoes all this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,073

    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...

    One of many reasons why there is not going to be a by-election now.

    Just a question of what time today Farage undoes all this.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    I think this has only just come out today, a well hung parliament, with no easy answers:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20260708.html

    Fun.

    Given the LDs are stubbornly sticking around the 10-13 range, they would be delighted to hold onto 70 seats.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,626

    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...

    A tiny Binface majority on a (say) 10% poll might be the best result.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,399
    Foss said:

    Apparently Malton Hospital is on fire.

    The Press are on it with an actual journalist at the scene. Initial implications that the fire is in some kind of service building - "some staff but not patients have been evacuated"

    https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/26262768.large-fire-near-malton-hospital---live-updates/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,739
    kle4 said:

    I think this has only just come out today, a well hung parliament, with no easy answers:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20260708.html

    Fun.

    Given the LDs are stubbornly sticking around the 10-13 range, they would be delighted to hold onto 70 seats.
    Lab/Con coalition as the only sensible answer.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,505

    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...

    One of many reasons why there is not going to be a by-election now.

    Just a question of what time today Farage undoes all this.
    Can he undo it? I thought he'd resigned as an MP already.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    kle4 said:

    I think this has only just come out today, a well hung parliament, with no easy answers:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20260708.html

    Fun.

    Given the LDs are stubbornly sticking around the 10-13 range, they would be delighted to hold onto 70 seats.
    Lab/Con coalition as the only sensible answer.
    Would please Reform.

    I still think Reform can win, but it was never the complete certainty they understandably pretended it was.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,762

    Much of Farage's appeal, I think, is down to the affable, cheeky chappy persona he presents. His 'one of the lads' schtick is particularly appealing to quite a large subsection of male voters.

    However, over the last couple of months this persona has been largely taken over by a different Farage: angry, grumpy and constantly moaning. I don't think the electorate will find his new persona as attractive as his previous one. I think they prefer Jekyll to Hyde.

    Yes. There are three political personae in this respect:
    1) You can dish it out and you can take it (Thatcher, Blair, Boris, Kinnock)
    2) You can not dish it out but you can take it (Corbyn, Whitelaw, Ken Clarke)
    3) You can dish it out but you can't take it (Farage, Gordon Brown, Lee Anderson)

    In the long run we don't like (3) all that much.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,639
    Dura_Ace said:

    algarkirk said:

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    Then recent missteps are collectively fatal.

    1) Wrong candidate for Gorton
    2) Wrong candidate for Makerfield
    3) Dealing with £5million Guardian leak by denial and anger
    4) Getting angry about posh George instead of dealing with the issues


    What could he do to deal with "the issues"? It's so much money from such a shady source that there is no good explanation.
    "When you have no argument, pound the table."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    When Farage does win i look forward to the party attempts to pretend that was seriously in doubt.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,739
    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    algarkirk said:

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    Then recent missteps are collectively fatal.

    1) Wrong candidate for Gorton
    2) Wrong candidate for Makerfield
    3) Dealing with £5million Guardian leak by denial and anger
    4) Getting angry about posh George instead of dealing with the issues


    What could he do to deal with "the issues"? It's so much money from such a shady source that there is no good explanation.
    I think this Binface fiasco is pretty much par for the course for Farage. Only nutters like Leon have ever rated Farage for anything except grifting. Not withstanding the polls, the chances of Reform going from 8 MPs to triple figures in a single election are historically zero.

    This latest nonsense really looks like the implosion of a largely Astroturf party that rests on dodgy donations.

    Not to say that British politics is in great shape- it clearly isn't- but Farage has played so fast and so loose that his lack of discipline will bring the REFUK project to naught well before the next general election.

    Binface opens up the Fascist frog to the kind of ridicule that Trump and his acolytes find most difficult to deal with. The tantrum at the Sky camera and this absurd attempt to bat away fully legitimate questions about how he has been funded have made this the worst 24 hours for NF since he first infected British politics. A man whose moral compass was and remains pro Putin deserves to be defeated- it would be a remarkably British thing if that defeat came at the hands of a joke candidate, but ridicule is a more powerful weapon than outrage.
    He's a shit. But to deny that he has had a huge effect on British politics is not born out by the facts. He was the driving force behind getting to a Brexit referendum and then played a role in delivering the win. Arguably that was not the outcome that best suited him (a narrow defeat and he could still have been there on the sidelines carping about the EU etc).

    I tend to agree about the number of seats that Reform can realistically win. There are several reasons for this, not least the Stop Reform vote. the Tories, in the past, have been victims of such negative voting (I mean voting against, rather than voting for). I think it will scupper Reform too. The candidates are also going to be a problem. Having seen what we've had so far rather suggests a lack of genuine quality amongst them, or the ability to reason, speak in public etc. We do like to deride our politicians, but this crowd are far worse.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,265
    algarkirk said:

    Much of Farage's appeal, I think, is down to the affable, cheeky chappy persona he presents. His 'one of the lads' schtick is particularly appealing to quite a large subsection of male voters.

    However, over the last couple of months this persona has been largely taken over by a different Farage: angry, grumpy and constantly moaning. I don't think the electorate will find his new persona as attractive as his previous one. I think they prefer Jekyll to Hyde.

    Yes. There are three political personae in this respect:
    1) You can dish it out and you can take it (Thatcher, Blair, Boris, Kinnock)
    2) You can not dish it out but you can take it (Corbyn, Whitelaw, Ken Clarke)
    3) You can dish it out but you can't take it (Farage, Gordon Brown, Lee Anderson)

    In the long run we don't like (3) all that much.

    The most extreme example of 3) is Trump, which proves your point.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,073
    Stocky said:

    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...

    One of many reasons why there is not going to be a by-election now.

    Just a question of what time today Farage undoes all this.
    Can he undo it? I thought he'd resigned as an MP already.
    This is where the doubt is apparently. The CoE has to formally appoint him to a position that means he can't be an MP.

    Seems there is a question about whether this has been done yet.

    Political X is waiting with the popcorn.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    algarkirk said:

    Much of Farage's appeal, I think, is down to the affable, cheeky chappy persona he presents. His 'one of the lads' schtick is particularly appealing to quite a large subsection of male voters.

    However, over the last couple of months this persona has been largely taken over by a different Farage: angry, grumpy and constantly moaning. I don't think the electorate will find his new persona as attractive as his previous one. I think they prefer Jekyll to Hyde.

    Yes. There are three political personae in this respect:
    1) You can dish it out and you can take it (Thatcher, Blair, Boris, Kinnock)
    2) You can not dish it out but you can take it (Corbyn, Whitelaw, Ken Clarke)
    3) You can dish it out but you can't take it (Farage, Gordon Brown, Lee Anderson)

    In the long run we don't like (3) all that much.

    3 is simple - they're snowflakes. You see it on all sides but i think snowflakes on the right are angrier at it being pointed out because in their heads it is a lefty position.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    edited 11:33AM
    Duplication
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,073

    Ruth Fox
    @RuthFox01
    🧵Some important procedural / timing points come into play re this Farage by-election scenario.

    1/ Since 1623 MPs have not been allowed simply to resign their seat.

    https://x.com/RuthFox01/status/2074554620844605537
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,265

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    algarkirk said:

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    Then recent missteps are collectively fatal.

    1) Wrong candidate for Gorton
    2) Wrong candidate for Makerfield
    3) Dealing with £5million Guardian leak by denial and anger
    4) Getting angry about posh George instead of dealing with the issues


    What could he do to deal with "the issues"? It's so much money from such a shady source that there is no good explanation.
    I think this Binface fiasco is pretty much par for the course for Farage. Only nutters like Leon have ever rated Farage for anything except grifting. Not withstanding the polls, the chances of Reform going from 8 MPs to triple figures in a single election are historically zero.

    This latest nonsense really looks like the implosion of a largely Astroturf party that rests on dodgy donations.

    Not to say that British politics is in great shape- it clearly isn't- but Farage has played so fast and so loose that his lack of discipline will bring the REFUK project to naught well before the next general election.

    Binface opens up the Fascist frog to the kind of ridicule that Trump and his acolytes find most difficult to deal with. The tantrum at the Sky camera and this absurd attempt to bat away fully legitimate questions about how he has been funded have made this the worst 24 hours for NF since he first infected British politics. A man whose moral compass was and remains pro Putin deserves to be defeated- it would be a remarkably British thing if that defeat came at the hands of a joke candidate, but ridicule is a more powerful weapon than outrage.
    He's a shit. But to deny that he has had a huge effect on British politics is not born out by the facts. He was the driving force behind getting to a Brexit referendum and then played a role in delivering the win. Arguably that was not the outcome that best suited him (a narrow defeat and he could still have been there on the sidelines carping about the EU etc).

    I tend to agree about the number of seats that Reform can realistically win. There are several reasons for this, not least the Stop Reform vote. the Tories, in the past, have been victims of such negative voting (I mean voting against, rather than voting for). I think it will scupper Reform too. The candidates are also going to be a problem. Having seen what we've had so far rather suggests a lack of genuine quality amongst them, or the ability to reason, speak in public etc. We do like to deride our politicians, but this crowd are far worse.
    A narrow defeat and he could still be drawing his MEP’s salary.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,652
    @steve_hawkes

    9-2 the Count! Binface shortening markedly on Betfair. Big Nige still 1-8 but was 1-25 last night
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,652
    @DPJHodges

    What’s genuinely funny is to see how Reform and their supporters cannot adjust. They have one pitch - all out, hysterical attack. They’re literally arguing with a bin. And they can’t recalibrate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,419
    Scott_xP said:

    @steve_hawkes

    9-2 the Count! Binface shortening markedly on Betfair. Big Nige still 1-8 but was 1-25 last night

    That is ridiculously short for the Count. Betting companies see a payday coming.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,508

    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    algarkirk said:

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    Then recent missteps are collectively fatal.

    1) Wrong candidate for Gorton
    2) Wrong candidate for Makerfield
    3) Dealing with £5million Guardian leak by denial and anger
    4) Getting angry about posh George instead of dealing with the issues


    What could he do to deal with "the issues"? It's so much money from such a shady source that there is no good explanation.
    I think this Binface fiasco is pretty much par for the course for Farage. Only nutters like Leon have ever rated Farage for anything except grifting. Not withstanding the polls, the chances of Reform going from 8 MPs to triple figures in a single election are historically zero.

    This latest nonsense really looks like the implosion of a largely Astroturf party that rests on dodgy donations.

    Not to say that British politics is in great shape- it clearly isn't- but Farage has played so fast and so loose that his lack of discipline will bring the REFUK project to naught well before the next general election.

    Binface opens up the Fascist frog to the kind of ridicule that Trump and his acolytes find most difficult to deal with. The tantrum at the Sky camera and this absurd attempt to bat away fully legitimate questions about how he has been funded have made this the worst 24 hours for NF since he first infected British politics. A man whose moral compass was and remains pro Putin deserves to be defeated- it would be a remarkably British thing if that defeat came at the hands of a joke candidate, but ridicule is a more powerful weapon than outrage.
    He's a shit. But to deny that he has had a huge effect on British politics is not born out by the facts. He was the driving force behind getting to a Brexit referendum and then played a role in delivering the win. Arguably that was not the outcome that best suited him (a narrow defeat and he could still have been there on the sidelines carping about the EU etc).

    I tend to agree about the number of seats that Reform can realistically win. There are several reasons for this, not least the Stop Reform vote. the Tories, in the past, have been victims of such negative voting (I mean voting against, rather than voting for). I think it will scupper Reform too. The candidates are also going to be a problem. Having seen what we've had so far rather suggests a lack of genuine quality amongst them, or the ability to reason, speak in public etc. We do like to deride our politicians, but this crowd are far worse.
    OK, fair point that he has been consequential, but what I am getting at is that even his victories have been pretty accidental. He is not a strategist at all. It was, and remains all about him, nothing to do with the greater good, because he doesn't recognize the greater good. Now he is being found out as a political weakling, as well as- as you rightly point out- a shit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,652
    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    By a ratio of almost 2 to 1, people oppose Nigel Farage’s decision to call a by-election in Clacton.

    Data from YouGov, released this morning.

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulbrand.bsky.social/post/3mq4ji6ok6c2m
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    What’s genuinely funny is to see how Reform and their supporters cannot adjust. They have one pitch - all out, hysterical attack. They’re literally arguing with a bin. And they can’t recalibrate.

    I like how it's unfair other parties won't take part but also exactly what they had wanted, apparently.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,228

    I think this has only just come out today, a well hung parliament, with no easy answers:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20260708.html

    That would be almost ungovernable.
    A Lab/Con coalition with Andy as PM and Kemi as CoE.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,229
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @steve_hawkes

    9-2 the Count! Binface shortening markedly on Betfair. Big Nige still 1-8 but was 1-25 last night

    That is ridiculously short for the Count. Betting companies see a payday coming.
    Indeed they do. Thanks to mug punters
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    Stocky said:

    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...

    One of many reasons why there is not going to be a by-election now.

    Just a question of what time today Farage undoes all this.
    Can he undo it? I thought he'd resigned as an MP already.
    Since the formal process of appointment is a legal fiction withdrawing as it has not technically happened would feel wrong to me.

    For councillors they cannot withdraw a resignation if made to the proper person, though granted there's no intermediate stage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @steve_hawkes

    9-2 the Count! Binface shortening markedly on Betfair. Big Nige still 1-8 but was 1-25 last night

    That is ridiculously short for the Count. Betting companies see a payday coming.
    Indeed they do. Thanks to mug punters
    Unsung heroes.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,228

    Sweeney74 said:

    Trump orders US to cut all trade with Spain

    *Telegraph

    Donald Trump ‌has ordered the US to cut off all trade with Spain, calling it a “terrible partner” in Nato.

    The US president told Scott Bessent, his treasury secretary, to cease trade with the country on Wednesday, accusing it of failing to contribute enough to the defence alliance.

    Didn't the Surpreme Court say he couldn't do that?
    I think the EU did.
    Trade with Spain will simply be routed through other EU countries.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    Barnesian said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Trump orders US to cut all trade with Spain

    *Telegraph

    Donald Trump ‌has ordered the US to cut off all trade with Spain, calling it a “terrible partner” in Nato.

    The US president told Scott Bessent, his treasury secretary, to cease trade with the country on Wednesday, accusing it of failing to contribute enough to the defence alliance.

    Didn't the Surpreme Court say he couldn't do that?
    I think the EU did.
    Trade with Spain will simply be routed through other EU countries.
    American businesses must love all this disruption on presidential win.

    Of course the really big businesses are Trump guys anyway.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,997
    Taz said:
    Cottrell aka Posh George looks to have a, let's say nuanced, background. The Harborne payments look more straightforward.

    If Reform were a proper party, they'd compile a record of donations to the Conservatives in particular but also Labour (including Labour Together). Whataboutery is the best form of defence.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,381

    Much of Farage's appeal, I think, is down to the affable, cheeky chappy persona he presents. His 'one of the lads' schtick is particularly appealing to quite a large subsection of male voters.

    However, over the last couple of months this persona has been largely taken over by a different Farage: angry, grumpy and constantly moaning. I don't think the electorate will find his new persona as attractive as his previous one. I think they prefer Jekyll to Hyde.

    Yes, it is quite obvious that Farage would be a disaster as PM because of his character flaws quite apart from his dodgy politics.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,255
    kle4 said:

    Stocky said:

    Reform needs to crush this BinFace meme pronto. Of course, Nigel starts from a strong position, but if it all turns into a summer lark and the voters of Clacton feel like f*cking up the status quo (of which the ubiquitous Nigel is now undeniably a part) then maybe, just maybe...

    One of many reasons why there is not going to be a by-election now.

    Just a question of what time today Farage undoes all this.
    Can he undo it? I thought he'd resigned as an MP already.
    Since the formal process of appointment is a legal fiction withdrawing as it has not technically happened would feel wrong to me.

    For councillors they cannot withdraw a resignation if made to the proper person, though granted there's no intermediate stage.
    Besides, does Big Brave Nigel really want to run away from a bloke with a bin on his head?

    It's not obvious that Farage has any good options from here (so yeah, all he can do it pick the least-bad one). And that's largely self-inflicted.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,903

    Virgin Media has been fined £28m for repeatedly preventing customers from cancelling contracts, Ofcom said.

    I believe a Count Binface policy is to make such contracts illegal. Sticking two fingers up at Virgin Media would be a service to mankind. Bin-mania, your time has come.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,352
    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    I don't think he would pull out even if he could. The lines about the establishment coordinating are stock but will play ok on GB news and other friendly people.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,372
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...


    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
    One should never underestimate the popular appetite for disruptive novelty and excitement. Binface will now be, for many Clacton constituents, more of a disruptive novelty and excitement than Farage.
    And in the absence of other candidates, the Count will get more publicity than he has ever had before.
    I've never been remotely tempted to vote for a joke candidate before, but if I lived in the constituency would be a committed Bin-voter.
    I might even canvass for him.
    the fun now will be he will get a level of scrutiny he has never had before

    I cant see how that will be enjoyable
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,715
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...


    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
    One should never underestimate the popular appetite for disruptive novelty and excitement. Binface will now be, for many Clacton constituents, more of a disruptive novelty and excitement than Farage.
    And in the absence of other candidates, the Count will get more publicity than he has ever had before.
    I've never been remotely tempted to vote for a joke candidate before, but if I lived in the constituency would be a committed Bin-voter.
    I might even canvass for him.
    We should remember that H'Angus the Monkey won the mayoralty in Hartlepool. Then resolved to take it seriously and was reelected.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,229
    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    PB and thinking, where Farage is concerned, seem to be mutually exclusive
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,372
    Foxy said:

    Much of Farage's appeal, I think, is down to the affable, cheeky chappy persona he presents. His 'one of the lads' schtick is particularly appealing to quite a large subsection of male voters.

    However, over the last couple of months this persona has been largely taken over by a different Farage: angry, grumpy and constantly moaning. I don't think the electorate will find his new persona as attractive as his previous one. I think they prefer Jekyll to Hyde.

    Yes, it is quite obvious that Farage would be a disaster as PM because of his character flaws quite apart from his dodgy politics.
    so a bit like Ed Davey
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,578

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    The idea of Count Binface defeating Nigel Farage is centrist Dad catnip.

    As for the optics, the centre and centre-left parties have gambled somewhat, just as Farage has gambled (though his gamble is bigger). If Lozza Fox and Farage are the only candidates of note, and if they decide to take the byelection seriously and behave well (both big ifs), they could move the national debate to the right - 'Yes we both agree that Britain is in the grip of a blob-fuelled decline, but my policies for dealing with it are better.' And given that of the two, Farage is the more moderate (and we love the mushy middle here in the UK) Farage could end up looking sensible and electable.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,382
    Results of last night by-elections: Surrey - LD 1181, Con 797, Green 280, Ref 213; Waverley - LD 551, Green 164, Con 141, Ref 84.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,419
    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    In fairness either is pretty amusing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,352
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...


    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
    One should never underestimate the popular appetite for disruptive novelty and excitement. Binface will now be, for many Clacton constituents, more of a disruptive novelty and excitement than Farage.
    And in the absence of other candidates, the Count will get more publicity than he has ever had before.
    I've never been remotely tempted to vote for a joke candidate before, but if I lived in the constituency would be a committed Bin-voter.
    I might even canvass for him.
    I’m in the UK for a couple of weeks at the end of August, I might ask the missus if she’d like a day or two at the seaside…
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,372
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    PB and thinking, where Farage is concerned, seem to be mutually exclusive
    Its just a long outpouring of english middle class angst
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulbrand.bsky.social‬

    By a ratio of almost 2 to 1, people oppose Nigel Farage’s decision to call a by-election in Clacton.

    Data from YouGov, released this morning.

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulbrand.bsky.social/post/3mq4ji6ok6c2m

    But isn't that just a proxy for whether you like Farage or not and, thus, tells us nothing we didn't already know from prior polling.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,639
    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    The whole situation is moderately amusing, but honestly I think it would be wrong to stop him resigning, given that manoeuvre hasn't been tried for nearly two centuries.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,159
    edited 12:12PM
    What's striking on X is the volume not just of centrists and leftwingers supportimg Binface, but the conservatives and natiionalists, as well.

    Genuinely extraordinary.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 2,072

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    The idea of Count Binface defeating Nigel Farage is centrist Dad catnip.

    As for the optics, the centre and centre-left parties have gambled somewhat, just as Farage has gambled (though his gamble is bigger). If Lozza Fox and Farage are the only candidates of note, and if they decide to take the byelection seriously and behave well (both big ifs), they could move the national debate to the right - 'Yes we both agree that Britain is in the grip of a blob-fuelled decline, but my policies for dealing with it are better.' And given that of the two, Farage is the more moderate (and we love the mushy middle here in the UK) Farage could end up looking sensible and electable.
    Thanks. I was trying to figure out the angle by which Farage gains from this, and I'm so enjoying the spectacle that I couldn't. As is often the case, you offer a well-thought through opposite position to mine. I can't quite see it panning out as you suggest (I think the farcical nature will play bigger) but am well aware I may be wrong and you may be right.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488

    Binface would stand more of a chance if he was actually funny, instead it's all a bit of forced humour. A rematch with Al Murray would be better.

    Farage will win at a canter, but the optics won't be great for him. I think it's another mis-step, taken in haste, which is a worrying trait for a potential PM.

    The idea of Count Binface defeating Nigel Farage is centrist Dad catnip.

    As for the optics, the centre and centre-left parties have gambled somewhat, just as Farage has gambled (though his gamble is bigger). If Lozza Fox and Farage are the only candidates of note, and if they decide to take the byelection seriously and behave well (both big ifs), they could move the national debate to the right - 'Yes we both agree that Britain is in the grip of a blob-fuelled decline, but my policies for dealing with it are better.' And given that of the two, Farage is the more moderate (and we love the mushy middle here in the UK) Farage could end up looking sensible and electable.
    What's in it for Fox to do that? Anyone standing against Farage is going to hit Farage on the £5 million.

    I agree with you about the danger of Reform losing to more extreme politicians, and I flagged the possibility of Fox winning upthread, but I don't think that will come through a measured discussion of hard right policies that shifts the Overton window.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,419
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    The whole situation is moderately amusing, but honestly I think it would be wrong to stop him resigning, given that manoeuvre hasn't been tried for nearly two centuries.
    Yet another piece of our shambles of a constitution that is not fit for purpose. Putting aside the circumstances of this case, the idea that an MP cannot resign whenever they want is just ridiculous. We have accepted this for a very long time now and I would be disappointed if it were changed just because Farage is a prat.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488

    What's striking on X is the volume not just of centrists and leftwingers supportimg Binface, but the conservatives and natiionalists, as well.

    Genuinely extraordinary.

    But remember that X is not the real world.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 795

    What's striking on X is not just the centrists and leftwingers supportimg Binface, but the conservatives and natiionalists, as well.

    Genuinely extraordinary.

    It's The Bants option
    Same energy that brought you Boaty McBoatface
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,159
    edited 12:15PM
    Sweeney74 said:

    What's striking on X is not just the centrists and leftwingers supportimg Binface, but the conservatives and natiionalists, as well.

    Genuinely extraordinary.

    It's The Bants option
    Same energy that brought you Boaty McBoatface
    Yup. That's why it can't be dismissed as a centrist ghetto.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,488
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    The whole situation is moderately amusing, but honestly I think it would be wrong to stop him resigning, given that manoeuvre hasn't been tried for nearly two centuries.
    Yet another piece of our shambles of a constitution that is not fit for purpose. Putting aside the circumstances of this case, the idea that an MP cannot resign whenever they want is just ridiculous. We have accepted this for a very long time now and I would be disappointed if it were changed just because Farage is a prat.
    The last Sinn Fein MP to resign agreed and just sent in a letter saying (in more words) "I resign". Parliamentary authorities interpreted this as a request to be appointed to an office of the Crown. Sinn Fein said that was nonsense and they refused to accept that position, but that's what happened.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,159

    What's striking on X is the volume not just of centrists and leftwingers supportimg Binface, but the conservatives and natiionalists, as well.

    Genuinely extraordinary.

    But remember that X is not the real world.
    Indeed.
    But it runs a lot of our world.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,819
    How do Reform go after BinFace? That's the fundamental political question of our time. A full-on personal attack may look mean, but if they ignore him completely will that not provide space for his ideas and pronouncements to blossom and thrive? Perhaps Nigel could state that he actually sees BinFace as something of a political soulmate, and he is fighting him more in sorry than in anger and with a heavy heart.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,753
    Laying a Farage exit as Reform leader for 2029 or later is starting to look like an interesting bet, with a 30% return that you could get as soon as this year, the way things are going.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,552
    edited 12:21PM

    What's striking on X is not just the centrists and leftwingers supportimg Binface, but the conservatives and natiionalists, as well.

    Genuinely extraordinary.

    There’s also an interesting schism between those on the right who can see the comedy value (eg Sandpit) and those who can’t (eg Luckyguy1983).

    Farage’s greatest asset is his ability to have a laugh and take the piss - like his response to this line… also about bins: https://youtu.be/iX5X6RDtYBc?is=H51iJw4TTCEi6F2G, this too: https://youtu.be/ZRc0by2vZ7k?is=LF3k09dsZBj0GI0y

    He really needs to embrace it. Have some fun with it. Drop the self-pity and hissy fits (great line from Keni tbf) .
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,715

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    maxh said:

    ydoethur said:

    On a serious point, Farage will win. We all know that.

    But if the turnout is around 15%, what sort of signal does that send about how popular he is?

    Especially when the investigation resumes...

    If I was a voter in Clacton, I would actively go out and vote for Binface. I hope enough Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem and Green supporters in Clacton do just that. It would at least give Farage a fright.
    I wonder if it is actually giving Harvey a fright also - I doubt he actually wants to be an MP...


    ...like others I'm of the opinion there is a tiny, tiny chance he'll actually win, but I wouldn't put it as zero because I wouldn't put it past Farage to walk away once the nominations have closed and he is having to do daily debates with a bin.
    I'd put the chances of a Binface win at functionally zero even if mathematically possible. Most people won't be exercised by the joke to actually vote, so core Reform vote should still make up 80+% I'd say.
    Were I in Clacton - I would be voting Binface because the election is a waste of time
    One should never underestimate the popular appetite for disruptive novelty and excitement. Binface will now be, for many Clacton constituents, more of a disruptive novelty and excitement than Farage.
    And in the absence of other candidates, the Count will get more publicity than he has ever had before.
    I've never been remotely tempted to vote for a joke candidate before, but if I lived in the constituency would be a committed Bin-voter.
    I might even canvass for him.
    the fun now will be he will get a level of scrutiny he has never had before

    I cant see how that will be enjoyable
    You think people who stand for election dislike attention?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,419

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    The whole situation is moderately amusing, but honestly I think it would be wrong to stop him resigning, given that manoeuvre hasn't been tried for nearly two centuries.
    Yet another piece of our shambles of a constitution that is not fit for purpose. Putting aside the circumstances of this case, the idea that an MP cannot resign whenever they want is just ridiculous. We have accepted this for a very long time now and I would be disappointed if it were changed just because Farage is a prat.
    The last Sinn Fein MP to resign agreed and just sent in a letter saying (in more words) "I resign". Parliamentary authorities interpreted this as a request to be appointed to an office of the Crown. Sinn Fein said that was nonsense and they refused to accept that position, but that's what happened.
    Words I thought I would never write: Sinn Fein were right.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 2,012
    edited 12:23PM
    Sandpit said:

    So, the thinking earlier was that it would be funny is the Chacellor slow-walked Farage’s appointment to (check notes) the job of the Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, but now the PB consensus seems to be to appoint him ASAP today before Honourable Member for Clacton can change his mind!

    On a purely procedural note, one "resigns" as a member of the Commons by appointment to Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead because you cannot be working directly for the crown, and be a Member of Parliament.

    The office of Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead does not normally fall vacant - usually it is filled by the next person but one to resign (the intermediate person being appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds).

    If Farage takes the office of Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, then wins the resulting by-election whilst holding this office, what happens? Surely he can't be a MP whilst also Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead?

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