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Can Farage win as the anti-establishment candidate when his only opponent is a man with a dustbin on

SystemSystem Posts: 13,237
edited 5:54AM in General
Can Nigel Farage win as the anti-establishment candidate when his only opponent is a man with a dustbin on his head? – politicalbetting.com

Count Binface says he will stand against Nigel Farage in the Clacton by-election.For context, there's more chance of him winning (8.8) than Norway (18), Colombia (28), Morocco (36), Belgium (40) or Switzerland (90) winning the World Cup. pic.twitter.com/tkH1GHDjJ1

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,381
    First, like Binface
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,073
    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,199
    edited 6:02AM

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary surrounding if he has adheres to the rules MPs are required to follow upon being elected e.g. registering their interests. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,073

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
    Cheers for that answer.

    Hmm.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,069
    Ha. Just heard someone refer to Colombia v Switzerland as Charlie v the Chocolate Factory.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,538
    Rather than waste my money on a bet in this race, I've wasted it by buying a few croissants.

    https://ko-fi.com/countbinface
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,620

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    My understanding is investigations into financial interests are paused, potentially permanently, for ex-MPs unless and until they return to Parliament. Investigations into bullying or sexual misconduct continue into ex-MPs (but not relevant here).
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,476
    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,538
    Battlebus said:

    Rather than waste my money on a bet in this race, I've wasted it by buying a few croissants.

    https://ko-fi.com/countbinface

    Supporting Binface may have some adverse side effects though ....

    Count Binface left this message for supporters:
    Galactic thanks for your support, you wonderful human, you. You've brought the return of Ceefax one step closer. CB
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,620

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary surrounding if he has adheres to the rules MPs are required to follow upon being elected e.g. registering their interests. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
    Ha! Good luck to him with the "new MP" argument. Absolutely no chance that the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner will wipe the slate clean on a financial interests investigation on the basis Farage has recently vanquished Count Binface in a vanity by-election. Just not a precedent he'd be willing to set.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,199
    edited 6:16AM

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary surrounding if he has adheres to the rules MPs are required to follow upon being elected e.g. registering their interests. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
    Ha! Good luck to him with the "new MP" argument. Absolutely no chance that the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner will wipe the slate clean on a financial interests investigation on the basis Farage has recently vanquished Count Binface in a vanity by-election. Just not a precedent he'd be willing to set.
    That isn't what I said. They will pick up the existing investigations. It is if people can report him for other potential breaches dating back 3 years. There are suggestions that no they can't.

    Its all a bit academic anyway, a) if he has breached the rules for the original donation, he will be in big trouble, likely recall and another by-election and b) if the media have a load more stories of taking dodgy money, the court of public opinion will bury him.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,381
    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    Oh, I think the media will enjoy the campaign.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,199
    edited 6:14AM
    This by-election is the establishment vs the establishment....

    Privately educated, former city trader and 30 year politician with billionaire mates vs Oxford graduate and life long BBC script writer and producer who moonlights as a comedian.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,853
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    Oh, I think the media will enjoy the campaign.
    It doesn’t matter if they enjoy it or not, if they don’t cover it they’ll loose more market and mind share to their new world competitors.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,069

    This by-election is the establishment vs the establishment....

    Privately educated, former city trader and 30 year politician with billionaire mates vs Oxford graduate and life long BBC script writer and producer who moonlights as a comedian.

    How will he campaign?

    Binface is never less funny than when he remoans.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,185
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well yesterday morning the rumour was that Sen. Mitch McConnell was either dead or brain-dead in the hospital, by this morning a number of Republicans say they’ve spoken to him, that rumours of his demise are incorrect.

    https://x.com/scottjenningsky/status/2074537046752845872
    https://x.com/abc/status/2074597349783933082

    Some are not so sure though, think it’s all about as co-ordinated as the Dems all turning on Platner overnight. https://x.com/kyliejanekremer/status/2074562302590796193

    I think the evidence of him having had a heart attack is pretty strong. Beyond that, who knows?
    Agreed. He was to the hospital by ambulance a couple of weeks ago, following what was either a heart attack or a stroke, and hasn’t been heard from since.

    The conspiracy theory is that he only needs to be alive for another couple of weeks to avoid an autumn by-election, so that’s what “they” are doing.
    To be fair, going out like that . . . Stalling for gamesmanship post mortem . . . Is exactly what he would have wanted.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,069
    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    There's enough of a constituency there for Farage that they'll believe this is an establishment stitch up.

    But he's starting to lose the floating voters he needs to become next PM.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,620

    This by-election is the establishment vs the establishment....

    Privately educated, former city trader and 30 year politician with billionaire mates vs Oxford graduate and life long BBC script writer and producer who moonlights as a comedian.

    How will he campaign?

    Binface is never less funny than when he remoans.
    I think you're illustrating Farage's problem. You can't run a serious campaign against a man with a bin on his head because, y'know, he's got a bin on his head. You become part of a national joke as soon as you engage in it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,338
    Binface for the win, this would be one of the funniest moments in British politics in decades!

    Probably since Martin Bell in 1997.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary surrounding if he has adheres to the rules MPs are required to follow upon being elected e.g. registering their interests. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
    Ha! Good luck to him with the "new MP" argument. Absolutely no chance that the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner will wipe the slate clean on a financial interests investigation on the basis Farage has recently vanquished Count Binface in a vanity by-election. Just not a precedent he'd be willing to set.
    That isn't what I said. They will pick up the existing investigations. It is if people can report him for other potential breaches dating back 3 years. There are suggestions that no they can't.

    Its all a bit academic anyway, a) if he has breached the rules for the original donation, he will be in big trouble, likely recall and another by-election and b) if the media have a load more stories of taking dodgy money, the court of public opinion will bury him.
    If the media have a load more stories of taking dodgy money and they come out during the by-election campaign, I’d be annoyed as a Clacton voter that I didn’t have a serious candidate to vote for and against Farage.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,073

    This by-election is the establishment vs the establishment....

    Privately educated, former city trader and 30 year politician with billionaire mates vs Oxford graduate and life long BBC script writer and producer who moonlights as a comedian.

    How will he campaign?

    Binface is never less funny than when he remoans.
    I think you're illustrating Farage's problem. You can't run a serious campaign against a man with a bin on his head because, y'know, he's got a bin on his head. You become part of a national joke as soon as you engage in it.
    So he'll likely do solo events and avoid any joint events (ie ask for Question Time to be one at a time facing the audience, rather than Farage and Binface at the same time).
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,229

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    According to someone on here PB is full of Farage fans at the moment so who knows !!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,381

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well yesterday morning the rumour was that Sen. Mitch McConnell was either dead or brain-dead in the hospital, by this morning a number of Republicans say they’ve spoken to him, that rumours of his demise are incorrect.

    https://x.com/scottjenningsky/status/2074537046752845872
    https://x.com/abc/status/2074597349783933082

    Some are not so sure though, think it’s all about as co-ordinated as the Dems all turning on Platner overnight. https://x.com/kyliejanekremer/status/2074562302590796193

    I think the evidence of him having had a heart attack is pretty strong. Beyond that, who knows?
    Agreed. He was to the hospital by ambulance a couple of weeks ago, following what was either a heart attack or a stroke, and hasn’t been heard from since.

    The conspiracy theory is that he only needs to be alive for another couple of weeks to avoid an autumn by-election, so that’s what “they” are doing.
    To be fair, going out like that . . . Stalling for gamesmanship post mortem . . . Is exactly what he would have wanted.
    Its quite funny really, with a "Weekend at Bernies" vibe to it. Here we have an unnessecary byelection, there they are trying to avoid one.

    Funny thing this democracy business.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,559

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    My understanding is investigations into financial interests are paused, potentially permanently, for ex-MPs unless and until they return to Parliament. Investigations into bullying or sexual misconduct continue into ex-MPs (but not relevant here).
    The minute Farage walks back in to the House Of Commons, no doubt with more threats and more intimidatory language, then the current investigation will simply be recommenced.

    He cannot run!
    He cannot hide!

    I suspect he saw yesterdays MELTDOWN as a chance to

    (a) deflect attention from him
    (b) deflect attention from Burnham Coronation
    (c) gird the loins of the Right Wing Media
    (d) raise more money

    ON ALMOST ALL COUNTS a spectacular failure

    (a) he'll get nothing but derision
    (b) he'll be an afterthought and will merelt make other Parties look serious
    (c) with the exception of the puke inducing Christopher Hope / Tom Harwood and mad Nana the Right Wing media have sussed him
    (d) he will raise tons more money and that will raise tons more questions.

    Quite where this leave the other Parties who knows?

    RESTORE may well pick up a fair share of the hard Right
    TORIES may well pick up the slightly soft hard Right
    BURNHAM / LABOUR will pick up a lot of ex Labour voters in Midlands / North who hated Starmer but who could never vote Tory but who worshipped on the altar af Farage

    It's not at all implausible that the split could see Reform down to high teens, Tories up to low 20's, Labour up to high 20's,Restore in double figures.

    Farage may well have had the dubious honour of fragmenting the right and hard right vote even more.

    Reform / Restore / Tories battling for around 45% of the vote
    More organised and tactically aware centre left looking at 50% of the vote

    The Centre and soft left have a unique opportuntiy to destroy Farage, destroy the Tories and build something over a decade or more.

    The key is what happens to the Tories, slowly edge further and further Right under Badenoch to oblivion or see the light and have a coup bringing in a One Nation Tory who could potentially galvanise the Centre and possibly win the 2029 GE!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,338
    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    According to someone on here PB is full of Farage fans at the moment so who knows !!
    Bin for the Win! Bin for the Win! Bin for the Win!

    🗑️🗑️🗑️
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,381

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    The money was just resting in his account.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,381
    Last summer I saw my first pair of ring necked parakeets in Leics, now they are rivalling the wood pigeons in numbers. I know they have been common in London for years, but seem to have spread considerably.

    They seem to poll well with the public.

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/daily-results/20260707-20277-3
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,199
    Virgin Media has been fined £28m for repeatedly preventing customers from cancelling contracts, Ofcom said.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,372
    Foxy said:

    Last summer I saw my first pair of ring necked parakeets in Leics, now they are rivalling the wood pigeons in numbers. I know they have been common in London for years, but seem to have spread considerably.

    They seem to poll well with the public.

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/daily-results/20260707-20277-3

    Much has happened with red kites our way. Not so long ago you saw the occasional solitary juvenile. Now they are in pairs, presumably breeding, and it is rare to go out without seeing them
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,750

    Virgin Media has been fined £28m for repeatedly preventing customers from cancelling contracts, Ofcom said.

    "Preventing" meaning making it difficult, by putting them on hold for no reason, dropping calls, and other such nefarious call centre tactics
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,634

    This by-election is the establishment vs the establishment....

    Privately educated, former city trader and 30 year politician with billionaire mates vs Oxford graduate and life long BBC script writer and producer who moonlights as a comedian.

    How will he campaign?

    Binface is never less funny than when he remoans.
    I think you're illustrating Farage's problem. You can't run a serious campaign against a man with a bin on his head because, y'know, he's got a bin on his head. You become part of a national joke as soon as you engage in it.
    So he'll likely do solo events and avoid any joint events (ie ask for Question Time to be one at a time facing the audience, rather than Farage and Binface at the same time).
    Frit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,338

    Virgin Media has been fined £28m for repeatedly preventing customers from cancelling contracts, Ofcom said.

    Can they do Sky next?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,634
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well yesterday morning the rumour was that Sen. Mitch McConnell was either dead or brain-dead in the hospital, by this morning a number of Republicans say they’ve spoken to him, that rumours of his demise are incorrect.

    https://x.com/scottjenningsky/status/2074537046752845872
    https://x.com/abc/status/2074597349783933082

    Some are not so sure though, think it’s all about as co-ordinated as the Dems all turning on Platner overnight. https://x.com/kyliejanekremer/status/2074562302590796193

    I think the evidence of him having had a heart attack is pretty strong. Beyond that, who knows?
    Agreed. He was to the hospital by ambulance a couple of weeks ago, following what was either a heart attack or a stroke, and hasn’t been heard from since.

    The conspiracy theory is that he only needs to be alive for another couple of weeks to avoid an autumn by-election, so that’s what “they” are doing.
    To be fair, going out like that . . . Stalling for gamesmanship post mortem . . . Is exactly what he would have wanted.
    Its quite funny really, with a "Weekend at Bernies" vibe to it. Here we have an unnessecary byelection, there they are trying to avoid one.

    Funny thing this democracy business.
    It's been fairly noted that manipulating procedure for party advantage, while in an irreversible coma, is probably the way McConnell would have wanted to go.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,229

    Foxy said:

    Last summer I saw my first pair of ring necked parakeets in Leics, now they are rivalling the wood pigeons in numbers. I know they have been common in London for years, but seem to have spread considerably.

    They seem to poll well with the public.

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/daily-results/20260707-20277-3

    Much has happened with red kites our way. Not so long ago you saw the occasional solitary juvenile. Now they are in pairs, presumably breeding, and it is rare to go out without seeing them
    We have the Red Kite trail in Gateshead not far from me. Seen a kite a few times. It’s a lovely walk.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,476

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,255
    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Rather than waste my money on a bet in this race, I've wasted it by buying a few croissants.

    https://ko-fi.com/countbinface

    Supporting Binface may have some adverse side effects though ....

    Count Binface left this message for supporters:
    Galactic thanks for your support, you wonderful human, you. You've brought the return of Ceefax one step closer. CB
    How many of us grew up in the ‘80s and ‘90s though, when Ceefax was how you mostly ‘watched’ live sports, and how you found out about breaking news in between bulletins? Very fond memories of an easier time.
    Which underpins a lot of Reform's appeal. The only question is which bits of 80s/90s nostalgia you decide to play into.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,073
    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,429

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary surrounding if he has adheres to the rules MPs are required to follow upon being elected e.g. registering their interests. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
    The suggestion is crap - were this a general election we would be in a new Parliament and what happened in the old one irrelevant (remember the discussion on when Boris could return) but if Farage is re-elected all payments from July 5th 2023 are relevant
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,255
    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    Question is- what would annoy Farage more?

    Having his by-election refused, or being forced to go through with it, even though his only rival.is a man with a bin on his head?

    On the "proud sprites cannot hear to be mocked" theory, I'd go with the latter.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 13,001
    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,398
    edited 6:51AM
    Is Nigel committed yet, has his MP resignation letter, in whatever form it needs to take, gone out?

    I know people have commented to the effect that the government should deny him the Chiltern Hundreds and thus kill off the by-election at source, but I don't think that realistic or desirable - the legal fiction supports the underlying principle that an MP should be absolutely at liberty to resign and denying that would be highly irregular. And won't happen.

    So, to me, the only way Clacton doesn't get a by-election is if Nigel made the announcement but has not yet completed the formalities and u-turns on doing so, thinking it a lesser embarrassment than facing a novelty and fringe by-election.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,398

    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
    It still sits with Rachel AIUI.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,417
    I think Farage is going to have to U turn on this. There is absolutely no point in doing a Davies and having a game where no one else will play. It proves nothing. The other parties will play when it is found, despite his protestations, that he has breached the rules both as an MP in respect of the £5m and in respect of financial support in the year before he was elected. The argument that he did nothing wrong should not be available to him when the people of Clacton are asked their view.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,192
    edited 6:58AM
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well yesterday morning the rumour was that Sen. Mitch McConnell was either dead or brain-dead in the hospital, by this morning a number of Republicans say they’ve spoken to him, that rumours of his demise are incorrect.

    https://x.com/scottjenningsky/status/2074537046752845872
    https://x.com/abc/status/2074597349783933082

    Some are not so sure though, think it’s all about as co-ordinated as the Dems all turning on Platner overnight. https://x.com/kyliejanekremer/status/2074562302590796193

    I think the evidence of him having had a heart attack is pretty strong. Beyond that, who knows?
    Agreed. He was to the hospital by ambulance a couple of weeks ago, following what was either a heart attack or a stroke, and hasn’t been heard from since.

    The conspiracy theory is that he only needs to be alive for another couple of weeks to avoid an autumn by-election, so that’s what “they” are doing.
    To be fair, going out like that . . . Stalling for gamesmanship post mortem . . . Is exactly what he would have wanted.
    Its quite funny really, with a "Weekend at Bernies" vibe to it. Here we have an unnessecary byelection, there they are trying to avoid one.

    Funny thing this democracy business.
    It's been fairly noted that manipulating procedure for party advantage, while in an irreversible coma, is probably the way McConnell would have wanted to go.
    Schrödinger‘s Senator - his state (ha!) will only collapse to dead or alive when observed.

    The Republican Party for a Nobel in Physics?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,590
    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Parties have as much right to boycott an election as an MP has as resigning. If the people of Clacton want to elect someone else I'm sure a local worthy would be happy to stand.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,550

    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
    The Chancellor. And it’s only convention stopping them “resigning” any MP they want.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,255
    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,338

    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
    The Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    It would be a shame if the current occupant of that position felt that it should be up to her successor to make such an appointment, and that said successor thought it prudent to wait until the Standards Commisioner’s report had been completed…
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,229
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
    The Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    It would be a shame if the current occupant of that position felt that it should be up to her successor to make such an appointment, and that said successor thought it prudent to wait until the Standards Commisioner’s report had been completed…
    That would be a first. Rachel making the right call in office
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,996

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    Forcing a by-election worked for Andy Burnham.

    Regarding the first point, as Jacob Rees-Mogg pointed out, there is a problem with the whole procedure which is that it is the PC4S and Farage are bound by confidentiality but no-one else is. Anyone is free to say what they like about the allegations, and that includes headline-seeking journalists and political opponents. Oh, and us of course.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,192
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
    The Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    It would be a shame if the current occupant of that position felt that it should be up to her successor to make such an appointment, and that said successor thought it prudent to wait until the Standards Commisioner’s report had been completed…
    That would be a first. Rachel making the right call in office
    No no.

    What she should do, is decide that the matter is so important that the First Lord of The Treasury should decide.

    So forward the papers to his desk…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,417

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    What the report can and will do is set out how much money and support was received, how it was spent, why that expenditure is "political" and not "personal" and destroy the lies and evasions that Farage has told about this. In other words the facts.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,417
    Meanwhile, the US/Iran war starts up again. It seems that their participation in the WC was the only basis on which it ever stopped. Both Houses of Congress have passed resolutions stating that Trump is not permitted to order such a war without their prior approval. What are they going to do about it?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,621
    If only one person stands in a parliamentary election, does the vote still go ahead? Or is the candidate returned automatically?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    edited 7:18AM

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    The unionists resigned in 1985, with the elections in 1986, but other parties did stand in some of those. The SDLP even gained Newry and Armagh, and were close in South Down.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    The problem with (1) is that the other parties, the media and the public have all been judging Farage’s innocence or guilt already. I’ve not heard Badenoch or Lowe saying, “Let’s wait to hear what the investigation says.”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,192

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    DD was campaigning to protest about a government that was heading towards legislating indefinite detention without trial. The government was canvassing MPs and using national security arguments to claim that even 42 days wasn’t enough.

    A plan to lock up (mostly) Muslims without trial on the basis of secret evidence, is something that few here would cheer for.

    The Ulster Unionist thing is also interesting - it was a protest against the Anglo-Irish Agreement. An attempt at creating a referendum on the Unionist community. While performative, it was a genuine issue of substance. I would argue that by diverting opposition to such agreements into the political sphere, it played a part in the structure of the Peace Process as originally conceived - move the fighting to the ballot box.

    Both were matters of principle and policy. As opposed to trying to kill an investigation into being an AirBnB Politician (short term rental)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    AnneJGP said:

    If only one person stands in a parliamentary election, does the vote still go ahead? Or is the candidate returned automatically?

    They are returned unopposed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,192

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    The time for a single, white suit, candidate is after the committee reports.

    And he is suspended from the Commons.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,476

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    It would have to be someone local and well respected in the community . Maybe someone will throw their hat in the ring but I fully support the opposition parties refusal to get involved.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    The time for a single, white suit, candidate is after the committee reports.

    And he is suspended from the Commons.
    It still seems bizarre to me to say to the voters of Clacton that Farage is a wrong ‘un, but we’re not going to let you vote him out just yet. No, we need to have a second by-election on the exact same issues, at considerable cost.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,102

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    The problem with (1) is that the other parties, the media and the public have all been judging Farage’s innocence or guilt already. I’ve not heard Badenoch or Lowe saying, “Let’s wait to hear what the investigation says.”
    He is guilty. Of taking a £5m personal gift from an offshore crypto billionaire.

    For most people, that is dodgy and unacceptable regardless of whether it was properly declared.

    The investigation is just as to whether it should have been declared or not. It's almost irrelevant (either he should have and broke the rules, or he didn't need to and the rules are wrong).
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,152
    edited 7:21AM
    It has to be Binface surely? Binface vs sleazy facsist scum. Over to you Clacton!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    After sleeping on it the by-election is still a dumb stunt because if Farage is found to have done wrong then an earlier by election won't magically insulate him from criticism so what's the point?

    Only point of interest is turnout and voteshare. I think he gets 85-90%, despite my respect for the count.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,296
    DavidL said:

    Meanwhile, the US/Iran war starts up again. It seems that their participation in the WC was the only basis on which it ever stopped. Both Houses of Congress have passed resolutions stating that Trump is not permitted to order such a war without their prior approval. What are they going to do about it?

    Wait for the Olympics in 2028?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,255
    edited 7:23AM

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    The time for a single, white suit, candidate is after the committee reports.

    And he is suspended from the Commons.
    If Nigel is foolish enough to stand in that by-election, yes.

    In the meantime, a silly candidate for a silly by-election is perfect.

    Oh, and a bloke with a bin on his head is standing as well.

    (It my be my CD tendencies, but I suspect that "bloke with a bin on his head" is a mirth-inducing phrase anyway. Try it.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,417
    Foxy said:

    Last summer I saw my first pair of ring necked parakeets in Leics, now they are rivalling the wood pigeons in numbers. I know they have been common in London for years, but seem to have spread considerably.

    They seem to poll well with the public.

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/daily-results/20260707-20277-3

    Interesting additions to Leicester's squad for the new season. Presumably they play as wingers?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,476

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    The time for a single, white suit, candidate is after the committee reports.

    And he is suspended from the Commons.
    It still seems bizarre to me to say to the voters of Clacton that Farage is a wrong ‘un, but we’re not going to let you vote him out just yet. No, we need to have a second by-election on the exact same issues, at considerable cost.
    It’s not bizarre at all . The other parties think voters there should have all the facts before voting and want to wait for the report to conclude .
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    Farage is playing silly games. The other parties have responded by saying they can play silly games too.

    The alternative response would have been, “Bring it on. We believe in our case. We will fight you any time, any place.”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    The problem with (1) is that the other parties, the media and the public have all been judging Farage’s innocence or guilt already. I’ve not heard Badenoch or Lowe saying, “Let’s wait to hear what the investigation says.”
    That's not a problem. There's a difference to thinking it is wrong regardless of whether the rules were followed, and wanting to know if he indeed did not follow the rules to see if formal sanction should be applied.

    Now obviously if any of the other parties thought they could win they'd probably change their tune, but it's still a by election called as a stunt - that is effectively admitted by Farage, it's a stunt to demonstrate the public back him regardless - and i think the public is capable of understanding not playing along with a stunt.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,102

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    The time for a single, white suit, candidate is after the committee reports.

    And he is suspended from the Commons.
    It still seems bizarre to me to say to the voters of Clacton that Farage is a wrong ‘un, but we’re not going to let you vote him out just yet. No, we need to have a second by-election on the exact same issues, at considerable cost.
    I think you are right if we were focussing solely on the constituency of Clacton. I imagine many will be frustrated by the time of the second by-election and Farage will win comfortably.

    But I think the parties are playing the right cards on the national stage. Drag out Farage firstly not being an MP, fighting a by-election against a man with a bin on head head, then coming back to the same parliamentary enquiries he left to escape before needing to fight a second more competitive by-election.

    It probably keeps the £5m story in the media for most of the rest of the year. Especially if new angles are found.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    Ratters said:

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    The problem with (1) is that the other parties, the media and the public have all been judging Farage’s innocence or guilt already. I’ve not heard Badenoch or Lowe saying, “Let’s wait to hear what the investigation says.”
    He is guilty. Of taking a £5m personal gift from an offshore crypto billionaire.

    For most people, that is dodgy and unacceptable regardless of whether it was properly declared.

    The investigation is just as to whether it should have been declared or not. It's almost irrelevant (either he should have and broke the rules, or he didn't need to and the rules are wrong).
    Agreed… which undermines the argument that we have to wait for the investigation.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,409
    Ratters said:

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    The problem with (1) is that the other parties, the media and the public have all been judging Farage’s innocence or guilt already. I’ve not heard Badenoch or Lowe saying, “Let’s wait to hear what the investigation says.”
    He is guilty. Of taking a £5m personal gift from an offshore crypto billionaire.

    For most people, that is dodgy and unacceptable regardless of whether it was properly declared.

    The investigation is just as to whether it should have been declared or not. It's almost irrelevant (either he should have and broke the rules, or he didn't need to and the rules are wrong).
    This is exactly the point. Farage doesn't think the media, other politicians and the public have the right to judge his actions. Reform made hay with the various Lord Ali gifts to Labour politicians in exactly the same way.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,590

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    The time for a single, white suit, candidate is after the committee reports.

    And he is suspended from the Commons.
    It still seems bizarre to me to say to the voters of Clacton that Farage is a wrong ‘un, but we’re not going to let you vote him out just yet. No, we need to have a second by-election on the exact same issues, at considerable cost.
    Not really. Until the inquiry is concluded there's no finding of wrongdoing for the voters of Clacton to consider. That's a reason NF has done this.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    kle4 said:

    After sleeping on it the by-election is still a dumb stunt because if Farage is found to have done wrong then an earlier by election won't magically insulate him from criticism so what's the point?

    Only point of interest is turnout and voteshare. I think he gets 85-90%, despite my respect for the count.

    It’s like a squid ejecting a cloud of ink. It distracts from the core issue. And that might work.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,938
    So it's Farage, Binface and Fox.

    Two deeply unserious carpetbaggers with insane manifestoes who pretend to be anti-establishment and are embroiled in innumerable legal troubles entirely born of their own grifting and stupidity.

    And a bloke with a bin on his head.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,417
    murali_s said:

    It has to be Binface surely? Binface vs sleazy facsist scum. Over to you Clacton!

    His batman poster in the thread header is just inspired.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381
    edited 7:32AM

    Farage is playing silly games. The other parties have responded by saying they can play silly games too.

    The alternative response would have been, “Bring it on. We believe in our case. We will fight you any time, any place.”

    They could have. They know they'd lose and are making the best of it, aided by the fact Farage's logic makes no sense (the public voting for him does not mean he followed the rules).

    Where we diverge is you seem to think voters will have no knowledge of why the parties did not stand the first time, since you said they'd need it explained to them, but apparently they will super care about it.

    I think if there is a second by election (and there might not be after all) it will fire up anyone who dislikes Farage and even some former supporters, and they won't dwell on the last one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,750
    edited 7:33AM
    Major interview with Binface coming up on #R4Today.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,417
    ydoethur said:

    So it's Farage, Binface and Fox.

    Two deeply unserious carpetbaggers with insane manifestoes who pretend to be anti-establishment and are embroiled in innumerable legal troubles entirely born of their own grifting and stupidity.

    And a bloke with a bin on his head.

    It really is a no brainer, isn't it?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,170
    DavidL said:

    Meanwhile, the US/Iran war starts up again. It seems that their participation in the WC was the only basis on which it ever stopped. Both Houses of Congress have passed resolutions stating that Trump is not permitted to order such a war without their prior approval. What are they going to do about it?

    SFA.

    No, that's not consult the wise, far sighted Scottish Football Association, but amounts to the same thing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,938
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    So it's Farage, Binface and Fox.

    Two deeply unserious carpetbaggers with insane manifestoes who pretend to be anti-establishment and are embroiled in innumerable legal troubles entirely born of their own grifting and stupidity.

    And a bloke with a bin on his head.

    It really is a no brainer, isn't it?
    The Fukker, the Forfoxsake and the Facer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,938
    DavidL said:

    murali_s said:

    It has to be Binface surely? Binface vs sleazy facsist scum. Over to you Clacton!

    His batman poster in the thread header is just inspired.
    'We never said thank you.'

    'And you'll never have to.'
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary surrounding if he has adheres to the rules MPs are required to follow upon being elected e.g. registering their interests. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
    Handy. All seems disproportionate otherwise - if a breach of the rules, no guarantee a suspension is high enough to trigger a recall, so it's jumping the gun a bit.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    The time for a single, white suit, candidate is after the committee reports.

    And he is suspended from the Commons.
    It still seems bizarre to me to say to the voters of Clacton that Farage is a wrong ‘un, but we’re not going to let you vote him out just yet. No, we need to have a second by-election on the exact same issues, at considerable cost.
    It’s not bizarre at all . The other parties think voters there should have all the facts before voting and want to wait for the report to conclude .
    The Parliamentary investigation, they’re not the police. They don’t get to examine Farage’s bank records. As far as I know, they can just judge on what we’ve all seen reported in the media + what Farage says to them… but Farage has resigned rather than talking to them. I’m unclear what facts you expect them to uncover.

    The other parties aren’t waiting for all the facts to be available. They’re waiting for Farage to be judged guilty. But the voters can make their own judgement. You’ve got a whole by-election campaign to put the case to them. You can ask Farage all the questions the committee would’ve asked him.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,417

    DavidL said:

    Meanwhile, the US/Iran war starts up again. It seems that their participation in the WC was the only basis on which it ever stopped. Both Houses of Congress have passed resolutions stating that Trump is not permitted to order such a war without their prior approval. What are they going to do about it?

    SFA.

    No, that's not consult the wise, far sighted Scottish Football Association, but amounts to the same thing.
    What is this wise and farsighted Scottish Football Association that you speak of? Where has it been?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,738
    ydoethur said:

    So it's Farage, Binface and Fox.

    Two deeply unserious carpetbaggers with insane manifestoes who pretend to be anti-establishment and are embroiled in innumerable legal troubles entirely born of their own grifting and stupidity.

    And a bloke with a bin on his head.

    Who is Fox? Been sleeping.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,482
    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    Is anyone else a little unsure about the wisdom of all the parties boycotting the by-election?

    I do entirely understand why, but I rather feel its saying to the voters of Clacton that they can't be trusted.

    Two fairly easy lines:

    1 Mr Farage is currently under investigation. It would be wrong to judge his innocence or guilt until that' investigation is finished.

    2 Previous by-elections like this (DD in 2008, Ulster Unionists in.... when? have had other parties sitting them out. Forcing a by-election a pretty silly, almost childish, thing to do.
    The problem with (1) is that the other parties, the media and the public have all been judging Farage’s innocence or guilt already. I’ve not heard Badenoch or Lowe saying, “Let’s wait to hear what the investigation says.”
    That's not a problem. There's a difference to thinking it is wrong regardless of whether the rules were followed, and wanting to know if he indeed did not follow the rules to see if formal sanction should be applied.

    Now obviously if any of the other parties thought they could win they'd probably change their tune, but it's still a by election called as a stunt - that is effectively admitted by Farage, it's a stunt to demonstrate the public back him regardless - and i think the public is capable of understanding not playing along with a stunt.
    For me, not playing along with the stunt would mean not re-electing Farage. Having a by-election and Farage getting back in seems to me to be playing along with his stunt. Farage can just say the other parties were too frit to stand against him.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,996
    DavidL said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media have no interest in following the so called Clacton campaign .

    With the Greens not standing they don’t even have the polar opposites going up against each other narrative . Farage will be really pissed off .

    Reform can spin this as much as they like but the opposition parties point that any by-election should have waited till after the investigation reported seems fair and would be supported by the vast majority of the public .

    But is the investigation going to say anything we don’t already know? The investigation isn’t investigating, digging out new evidence. It’s just judging on what’s known.

    Is anyone here going to change their mind based on what the investigation says?
    Unlikely but the report could determine whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report .

    The code is pretty clear that if in doubt report any donations in the previous year before you became an MP . The big problem for Farage is the changing reasons , so it was security then it was a reward for Brexit and then he just said he could spend the money on whatever he wanted .
    The report has no special magic ability to see inside Farage’s head. They can make a judgement whether Farage intentionally or unintentionally failed to report. I can make that judgement right now too (intentionally).

    I am currently of the view that the best approach is to have an independent, anti-corruption candidate, and you make the whole campaign about this one question. You say that Farage triggered the by-election on the issue, so that’s what you’re going to talk about. Weeks of Farage failing to answer questions, or changing reasons, would follow.
    What the report can and will do is set out how much money and support was received, how it was spent, why that expenditure is "political" and not "personal" and destroy the lies and evasions that Farage has told about this. In other words the facts.
    Maybe but that seems to be more of an issue with the Cottrell money. The Harborne £5 million does look like a gift and is beside the millions given separately to the party, which is for the Electoral Commission to worry about.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,381

    If Farage loses, does the investigation into his joyous and no-strings £5m continue?

    No, as its not criminal, its parliamentary surrounding if he has adheres to the rules MPs are required to follow upon being elected e.g. registering their interests. Its now on hold until the result of the by-election, then if he wins it will resume. There is also a suggestion that as he is a "new MP" the 12 month period restarts, so they can't do new investigations back 3 years ago i.e. 2 years when he was first elected + the 12 months.
    Ha! Good luck to him with the "new MP" argument. Absolutely no chance that the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner will wipe the slate clean on a financial interests investigation on the basis Farage has recently vanquished Count Binface in a vanity by-election. Just not a precedent he'd be willing to set.
    That isn't what I said. They will pick up the existing investigations. It is if people can report him for other potential breaches dating back 3 years. There are suggestions that no they can't.

    Its all a bit academic anyway, a) if he has breached the rules for the original donation, he will be in big trouble, likely recall and another by-election and b) if the media have a load more stories of taking dodgy money, the court of public opinion will bury him.
    This is the key for me on why the stunt makes no sense - he will win, he might even win a second one if he breached rules, but the concern for him is stories about being in rich people's pockets.

    He's obviously super worried about it or he'd not do sonething this dramatic, but opponents will still bring it up even if no rules were broken, because its a weakness of perception.

    Polanski will face boob hypnosis jokes forever for the same reason.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,938

    ydoethur said:

    So it's Farage, Binface and Fox.

    Two deeply unserious carpetbaggers with insane manifestoes who pretend to be anti-establishment and are embroiled in innumerable legal troubles entirely born of their own grifting and stupidity.

    And a bloke with a bin on his head.

    Who is Fox? Been sleeping.
    Lawrence Fox, everyone's favourite fascist, failed actor and former husband of Billie Piper.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,904
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Rather than waste my money on a bet in this race, I've wasted it by buying a few croissants.

    https://ko-fi.com/countbinface

    Supporting Binface may have some adverse side effects though ....

    Count Binface left this message for supporters:
    Galactic thanks for your support, you wonderful human, you. You've brought the return of Ceefax one step closer. CB
    Ceefax screens were a maximum of ~1000 characters, so perhaps the various journos would read all of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,634

    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
    The Chancellor.
    Though since refusal hasn't happened in the last century it so, precedent is limited.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,634

    This by-election is the establishment vs the establishment....

    Privately educated, former city trader and 30 year politician with billionaire mates vs Oxford graduate and life long BBC script writer and producer who moonlights as a comedian.

    How will he campaign?

    Binface is never less funny than when he remoans.
    Careful.
    You might start feeling sorry for Farage.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,853
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    The Chancellor refused to appoint Henry Cadogan MP for Reading to the Chiltern Hundreds in 1842 because he believed the MP was attempting to vacate his seat to conceal corrupt financial compromises and electoral bribery.
    https://x.com/RhonddaBryant/status/2074739497145598096

    These days, who determines whether such an appointment is made or refused?
    The Chancellor.
    Though since refusal hasn't happened in the last century it so, precedent is limited.
    I’m not sure it’s a precedent we should want to bring back either.
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