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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,424
    edited July 4
    There is an appallingly bad royal doc on C5 now, Harry & Meghan: The Wedding That Split Two Families' with actors accents for Harry and Meghan, William and the late Queen so awful it is hilarious
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,740

    carnforth said:

    Add a sentence to tell us what the link is, Big G!
    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [-1]
    Conservative 19 [+2]

    Highest Conservative vote share since April 2025
    Highest share with this pollster, not overall.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,249
    Ballot Box Scotland’s analysis of the Peterhead South by-election.
    https://ballotbox.scot/result-peterhead-south/
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 6,111
    HYUFD said:

    There is an appallingly bad royal doc on C5 now, Harry & Meghan: The Wedding That Split Two Families' with actors accents for Harry and Meghan, William and the late Queen so awful it is hilarious

    More awful and hilarious than the real version?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,848

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    The Irish Sea?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,351

    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Revealed: Nigel Farage secretly funded by convicted criminal

    The Reform UK leader did not declare benefits including staff, security and housing by crypto-gambler George Cottrell, our investigation reveals


    ...Farage appears to have broken MPs’ rules by failing to declare that Cottrell provided funding for his operation in the year before his election.

    We can also reveal that:

    • The Reform leader received “in kind” benefits ranging from his back office to his private security, staff, transport and accommodation.
    • Cottrell recruited and paid three staff to transform Farage’s social media presence, producing content on immigration, human rights law and political correctness, and that promoted Reform.
    • Cottrell has been involved in a crypto-gambling platform implicated in illegal betting in the UK.
    • Two men — a friend of Cottrell’s and a Reform employee — owned UK companies which allowed illicit payments originally from or destined for the platform, which did not have a legally required UK licence.
    • Since the election Cottrell has let Farage use a five-storey house he rents on a street near Buckingham Palace. His lawyer said: “As a close friend, our client did, and does, allow Mr Farage to stay in our client’s rental property.”
    • The convict has applied for a presidential pardon in the US, where he pleaded guilty to wire fraud.
    • Cottrell received an £8.5 million Chelsea property from the billionaire Reform treasurer Nick Candy in the last year. Land Registry documents say the price paid was zero. Candy said Cottrell paid him by buying shares in an offshore Guernsey company but would not specify the value of the transaction.

    The code of conduct says MPs must disclose any benefit which “might reasonably be thought by others to influence [their] actions or words” on their register of interests. Its “overall aim” is to protect democracy by upholding the highest levels of transparency.

    It says MPs must declare any gifts, benefits and hospitality” received in the year preceding their election and which relate “in any way” to their “political activities”. The exception is “purely personal” gifts, such as presents from family. Even then, the code says “both the possible motive of the giver and the use [of the gift] should be considered”, clarifying: “If there is any doubt, the benefit should be registered.”

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/revealed-nigel-farage-secretly-funded-by-convicted-criminal-j0brtrlnk

    Having been teflon for so long I am starting to think that Farage's corruption may finally have destroyed him. How will Reform fare without him?
    What is increasingly certain is that Reform are not going to form or lead the next government and Farage is finished. And there is an end to major figures leaping to Reform from the Tories. And figures like Kruger and Montgomerie are looking wan and sad.

    Reform are likely to collapse. How many of their erstwhile supporters go to Kemi and how many to Restore? Might decide the largest party after the next election.
    Have to say while I accept for Conservatives like you and @algarkirk the end of Reform can't come soon enough, the fact remains they are still leading the polls and winning local council by-election seats including from the Conservatives.

    People have written off Farage and rather like (you can add your own analogy), he keeps coming back. Perhaps this time he will be done but I'm not convinced.

    There's also the small matter of the assumption somehow all the Reform vote will head Kemi's way - again, I'm not convinced.
    All the reform vote will not return to the conservatives but some will and it depends on how many

    Straws in the wind of conservatives rowing in behind Kemi, with Rees Mogg this week and interestingly Kemi receiving advice from previous conservative pms [ not Truss] and leaders including Cameron and Boris

    Three years to go and a lot of ground to make up but I do expect Kemi to crossover with reform in the next 12 months
    If she does crossover to Reform that would be a bombshell and a half.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,844

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Leigh Lobbygobblers actually won a game.
    Andy's on a roll.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,340
    edited July 4

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Like the good old days, though hopefully not pissing on the back of the person in front like the bad old days...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,848

    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Revealed: Nigel Farage secretly funded by convicted criminal

    The Reform UK leader did not declare benefits including staff, security and housing by crypto-gambler George Cottrell, our investigation reveals


    ...Farage appears to have broken MPs’ rules by failing to declare that Cottrell provided funding for his operation in the year before his election.

    We can also reveal that:

    • The Reform leader received “in kind” benefits ranging from his back office to his private security, staff, transport and accommodation.
    • Cottrell recruited and paid three staff to transform Farage’s social media presence, producing content on immigration, human rights law and political correctness, and that promoted Reform.
    • Cottrell has been involved in a crypto-gambling platform implicated in illegal betting in the UK.
    • Two men — a friend of Cottrell’s and a Reform employee — owned UK companies which allowed illicit payments originally from or destined for the platform, which did not have a legally required UK licence.
    • Since the election Cottrell has let Farage use a five-storey house he rents on a street near Buckingham Palace. His lawyer said: “As a close friend, our client did, and does, allow Mr Farage to stay in our client’s rental property.”
    • The convict has applied for a presidential pardon in the US, where he pleaded guilty to wire fraud.
    • Cottrell received an £8.5 million Chelsea property from the billionaire Reform treasurer Nick Candy in the last year. Land Registry documents say the price paid was zero. Candy said Cottrell paid him by buying shares in an offshore Guernsey company but would not specify the value of the transaction.

    The code of conduct says MPs must disclose any benefit which “might reasonably be thought by others to influence [their] actions or words” on their register of interests. Its “overall aim” is to protect democracy by upholding the highest levels of transparency.

    It says MPs must declare any gifts, benefits and hospitality” received in the year preceding their election and which relate “in any way” to their “political activities”. The exception is “purely personal” gifts, such as presents from family. Even then, the code says “both the possible motive of the giver and the use [of the gift] should be considered”, clarifying: “If there is any doubt, the benefit should be registered.”

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/revealed-nigel-farage-secretly-funded-by-convicted-criminal-j0brtrlnk

    Having been teflon for so long I am starting to think that Farage's corruption may finally have destroyed him. How will Reform fare without him?
    What is increasingly certain is that Reform are not going to form or lead the next government and Farage is finished. And there is an end to major figures leaping to Reform from the Tories. And figures like Kruger and Montgomerie are looking wan and sad.

    Reform are likely to collapse. How many of their erstwhile supporters go to Kemi and how many to Restore? Might decide the largest party after the next election.
    Have to say while I accept for Conservatives like you and @algarkirk the end of Reform can't come soon enough, the fact remains they are still leading the polls and winning local council by-election seats including from the Conservatives.

    People have written off Farage and rather like (you can add your own analogy), he keeps coming back. Perhaps this time he will be done but I'm not convinced.

    There's also the small matter of the assumption somehow all the Reform vote will head Kemi's way - again, I'm not convinced.
    All the reform vote will not return to the conservatives but some will and it depends on how many

    Straws in the wind of conservatives rowing in behind Kemi, with Rees Mogg this week and interestingly Kemi receiving advice from previous conservative pms [ not Truss] and leaders including Cameron and Boris

    Three years to go and a lot of ground to make up but I do expect Kemi to crossover with reform in the next 12 months
    If she does crossover to Reform that would be a bombshell and a half.
    She'd be a definite improvement on the ex-Cons they've picked up so far though.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,351

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    I'd ban alcohol at rugby matches too. Some tw@t carrying four pints for him and his mates, climbing the stairs at the Principality, turns at the roar for a try and drops all four pints over the nearest convenient head. It wouldn't have been so bad if it had been me, but my wife was the head in question. "Sorry but" addressed to me didn't help.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,607
    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    Add a sentence to tell us what the link is, Big G!
    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [-1]
    Conservative 19 [+2]

    Highest Conservative vote share since April 2025
    Shouldn't that be

    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [0]
    Conservative 19 [+1]

    ...or am I missing something?

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-1st-july-2026/
    Reform UK continues to lead voting intention on 26%. Labour is on 20%, while the Conservatives rise to 19% (their highest score since April 2025). The Greens stand on 14% and the Liberal Democrats on 11%.

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-17th-june-2026/
    Reform UK continues to lead voting intention on 27%, despite falling two points since earlier this month. Labour remains on 20%, while the Conservatives have edged up to 18%. The Greens stand on 14% and the Liberal Democrats on 12%.
    24th - 26th June figures

    Reform 26
    Labour 21
    Conservative 17

    Looks as if reform is the same
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,607

    carnforth said:

    Add a sentence to tell us what the link is, Big G!
    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [-1]
    Conservative 19 [+2]

    Highest Conservative vote share since April 2025
    Highest share with this pollster, not overall.
    Yes - that is their quote
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,541

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    I'd ban alcohol at rugby matches too. Some tw@t carrying four pints for him and his mates, climbing the stairs at the Principality, turns at the roar for a try and drops all four pints over the nearest convenient head. It wouldn't have been so bad if it had been me, but my wife was the head in question. "Sorry but" addressed to me didn't help.
    Yes but imagine if alcohol was banned and instead he was carrying four pints of kefir or spicy tomato juice.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,512
    I thought that was what the £5m bung was supposed to be for ?

    Nigel Farage appears to have breached MP rules after failing to declare that convicted criminal George Cottrell paid for his staff, security and social media output before 2024 election
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2073495527358959758
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,848
    Nigelb said:

    I thought that was what the £5m bung was supposed to be for ?

    Nigel Farage appears to have breached MP rules after failing to declare that convicted criminal George Cottrell paid for his staff, security and social media output before 2024 election
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2073495527358959758

    Could be worse, could be the convicted criminal Donald Trump.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 836

    Ballot Box Scotland’s analysis of the Peterhead South by-election.
    https://ballotbox.scot/result-peterhead-south/

    Fair assessment. Reform are very transfer unfriendly both in receiving second pref votes and giving them out. I think if the by election was 5 weeks earlier Reform would have had a stronger lead over the Tories and would likely have finished second overall. Ultimately Reform have been a gift to Mr Swinney and helped them retain Banff and some other Aberdeenshire seats in May.

    Expect Mr Offord will come under more pressure on his leadership once MSPs summer playtime is over
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,267

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,512
    edited July 4
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I thought that was what the £5m bung was supposed to be for ?

    Nigel Farage appears to have breached MP rules after failing to declare that convicted criminal George Cottrell paid for his staff, security and social media output before 2024 election
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2073495527358959758

    Could be worse, could be the convicted criminal Donald Trump.
    Love the response.

    Reform UK said: "It comes as no surprise that The Sunday Times has chosen to publish this baseless and contrived story, covering a period of time when Nigel Farage was not even an active politician, let alone an elected one, given that the newspaper backed the Labour Party at the last general election. Contrary to the story’s tone, no parliamentary rules have been broken...
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2073495901763490054

    But yes, Trump would have been worse still.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,970
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    Er, yep.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,152
    edited July 4

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    Add a sentence to tell us what the link is, Big G!
    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [-1]
    Conservative 19 [+2]

    Highest Conservative vote share since April 2025
    Shouldn't that be

    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [0]
    Conservative 19 [+1]

    ...or am I missing something?

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-1st-july-2026/
    Reform UK continues to lead voting intention on 26%. Labour is on 20%, while the Conservatives rise to 19% (their highest score since April 2025). The Greens stand on 14% and the Liberal Democrats on 11%.

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-17th-june-2026/
    Reform UK continues to lead voting intention on 27%, despite falling two points since earlier this month. Labour remains on 20%, while the Conservatives have edged up to 18%. The Greens stand on 14% and the Liberal Democrats on 12%.
    24th - 26th June figures

    Reform 26
    Labour 21
    Conservative 17

    Looks as if reform is the same
    Ah I see. The report for 24-26Jun was issued on the 27th. The report did not contain the VI, but the data tables did

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-24th-june-2026/
    https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/VI-2026-06-24-Opinium-Observer-Web-Data-Tables-1733.xlsx

    So I did miss something (my bad) but in fairness so did Opinium... :)
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,406
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    As a football hater I'd say that is objectively the case.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    Yes, look at the history of hooliganism in association football versus the (non) history of hooliganism in rugby football.

    The latter doesn't need segregated seating.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,267
    edited July 4
    Enjoyed watching the Argentina-Scotland highlights package
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,351
    MelonB said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    I'd ban alcohol at rugby matches too. Some tw@t carrying four pints for him and his mates, climbing the stairs at the Principality, turns at the roar for a try and drops all four pints over the nearest convenient head. It wouldn't have been so bad if it had been me, but my wife was the head in question. "Sorry but" addressed to me didn't help.
    Yes but imagine if alcohol was banned and instead he was carrying four pints of kefir or spicy tomato juice.
    They wouldn't be up and down every five minutes for a Jimmy Riddle after ten pints of Kefir.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,607
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    Add a sentence to tell us what the link is, Big G!
    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [-1]
    Conservative 19 [+2]

    Highest Conservative vote share since April 2025
    Shouldn't that be

    Reform 26 [-1]
    Labour 20 [0]
    Conservative 19 [+1]

    ...or am I missing something?

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-1st-july-2026/
    Reform UK continues to lead voting intention on 26%. Labour is on 20%, while the Conservatives rise to 19% (their highest score since April 2025). The Greens stand on 14% and the Liberal Democrats on 11%.

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-17th-june-2026/
    Reform UK continues to lead voting intention on 27%, despite falling two points since earlier this month. Labour remains on 20%, while the Conservatives have edged up to 18%. The Greens stand on 14% and the Liberal Democrats on 12%.
    24th - 26th June figures

    Reform 26
    Labour 21
    Conservative 17

    Looks as if reform is the same
    Ah I see. The report for 24-26Jun was issued on the 27th. The report did not contain the VI, but the data tables did

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/voting-intention-24th-june-2026/
    https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/VI-2026-06-24-Opinium-Observer-Web-Data-Tables-1733.xlsx

    So I did miss something (my bad) but in fairness so did Opinium... :)
    No problem as they did do one [24-26] between their usual fortnight
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,690
    edited July 4

    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Revealed: Nigel Farage secretly funded by convicted criminal

    The Reform UK leader did not declare benefits including staff, security and housing by crypto-gambler George Cottrell, our investigation reveals


    ...Farage appears to have broken MPs’ rules by failing to declare that Cottrell provided funding for his operation in the year before his election.

    We can also reveal that:

    • The Reform leader received “in kind” benefits ranging from his back office to his private security, staff, transport and accommodation.
    • Cottrell recruited and paid three staff to transform Farage’s social media presence, producing content on immigration, human rights law and political correctness, and that promoted Reform.
    • Cottrell has been involved in a crypto-gambling platform implicated in illegal betting in the UK.
    • Two men — a friend of Cottrell’s and a Reform employee — owned UK companies which allowed illicit payments originally from or destined for the platform, which did not have a legally required UK licence.
    • Since the election Cottrell has let Farage use a five-storey house he rents on a street near Buckingham Palace. His lawyer said: “As a close friend, our client did, and does, allow Mr Farage to stay in our client’s rental property.”
    • The convict has applied for a presidential pardon in the US, where he pleaded guilty to wire fraud.
    • Cottrell received an £8.5 million Chelsea property from the billionaire Reform treasurer Nick Candy in the last year. Land Registry documents say the price paid was zero. Candy said Cottrell paid him by buying shares in an offshore Guernsey company but would not specify the value of the transaction.

    The code of conduct says MPs must disclose any benefit which “might reasonably be thought by others to influence [their] actions or words” on their register of interests. Its “overall aim” is to protect democracy by upholding the highest levels of transparency.

    It says MPs must declare any gifts, benefits and hospitality” received in the year preceding their election and which relate “in any way” to their “political activities”. The exception is “purely personal” gifts, such as presents from family. Even then, the code says “both the possible motive of the giver and the use [of the gift] should be considered”, clarifying: “If there is any doubt, the benefit should be registered.”

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/revealed-nigel-farage-secretly-funded-by-convicted-criminal-j0brtrlnk

    Having been teflon for so long I am starting to think that Farage's corruption may finally have destroyed him. How will Reform fare without him?
    What is increasingly certain is that Reform are not going to form or lead the next government and Farage is finished. And there is an end to major figures leaping to Reform from the Tories. And figures like Kruger and Montgomerie are looking wan and sad.

    Reform are likely to collapse. How many of their erstwhile supporters go to Kemi and how many to Restore? Might decide the largest party after the next election.
    Have to say while I accept for Conservatives like you and @algarkirk the end of Reform can't come soon enough, the fact remains they are still leading the polls and winning local council by-election seats including from the Conservatives.

    People have written off Farage and rather like (you can add your own analogy), he keeps coming back. Perhaps this time he will be done but I'm not convinced.

    There's also the small matter of the assumption somehow all the Reform vote will head Kemi's way - again, I'm not convinced.
    All the reform vote will not return to the conservatives but some will and it depends on how many

    Straws in the wind of conservatives rowing in behind Kemi, with Rees Mogg this week and interestingly Kemi receiving advice from previous conservative pms [ not Truss] and leaders including Cameron and Boris

    Three years to go and a lot of ground to make up but I do expect Kemi to crossover with reform in the next 12 months
    "All the reform vote will not return to the conservatives"

    That's partly because a lot of it didn't come from the Conservatives in the first place. Both ex-Labour and ex-non-voters make up the ranks.

    So a Reform collapse should give Labour a boost too, albeit smaller than the Tory boost.
    Whilst I agree with you to some extent, I think the biggest boost will be to 'none of the above'. Just because Reform support drops doesn't mean the things that drove people away from Labour are all suddenly forgotten. Sadly I can see Restore improving its polling a little but would not be surprised to see no appreciably improvement in Labour support.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,946

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    Er, yep.

    But it's now for a different reason to the bad old days. Alcohol was permitted in the stands at the Champions League final. I had a split second of joy when Havertz scored but then knew what was coming. Thankfully I wasn't completely soaked, but the last thing I want is some twat doing it on a cold Tuesday night at Portman Road.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    As a footbal fan with season ticket: it's a fair cop.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,351
    Nigelb said:

    I thought that was what the £5m bung was supposed to be for ?

    Nigel Farage appears to have breached MP rules after failing to declare that convicted criminal George Cottrell paid for his staff, security and social media output before 2024 election
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2073495527358959758

    How do these grifters keep getting bucket loads of buckshee cash from other grifters? What am I doing wrong?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,494

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    Yes, look at the history of hooliganism in association football versus the (non) history of hooliganism in rugby football.

    The latter doesn't need segregated seating.
    But why does Burnham say only top leagues? If you can't afford a pricey ticket you don't deserve or can't be trusted to drink?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    edited July 4
    carnforth said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    Yes, look at the history of hooliganism in association football versus the (non) history of hooliganism in rugby football.

    The latter doesn't need segregated seating.
    But why does Burnham say only top leagues? If you can't afford a pricey ticket you don't deserve or can't be trusted to drink?
    The ban only applies to the top five tiers of English football.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,731

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Football fans in the top leagues can drink alcohol in their seats, so long as they're in the Directors Box or -indeed- in any expensive hospitality box.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430

    By the way, isn't TSE's page title incorrect?

    Surely it should be 'Ungrateful Tax Dodging Colonials'

    The original version was

    'Happy Treason Day you bunch of ungrateful tax dodging colonials/The day we decided we'd rather have India.'
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    The theocrats in Iran America are talking about providence.

    It is impossible to review the events of the last decade and conclude that it is anything other than divine providence that Donald J. Trump is the President of the United States on the year of America 250, July 4th, 2026.

    https://x.com/StephenM/status/2073407087996969117
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,249

    The theocrats in Iran America are talking about providence.

    It is impossible to review the events of the last decade and conclude that it is anything other than divine providence that Donald J. Trump is the President of the United States on the year of America 250, July 4th, 2026.

    https://x.com/StephenM/status/2073407087996969117

    Proof that God is a sadist.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,086

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    A rare sight of a liberalising policy.

    I assume it'll be very unpopular.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430

    The theocrats in Iran America are talking about providence.

    It is impossible to review the events of the last decade and conclude that it is anything other than divine providence that Donald J. Trump is the President of the United States on the year of America 250, July 4th, 2026.

    https://x.com/StephenM/status/2073407087996969117

    Proof that God is a sadist.
    You know which other leader also believed in divine providence?

    Most famously he was convinced FDR dying was divine providence to help Germany.

    Narrator: 18 days later Adolf Hitler committed suicide as the Soviets were about to take Berlin.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    edited July 4
    Ratters said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    A rare sight of a liberalising policy.

    I assume it'll be very unpopular.
    The match going football fans on PB aren't supportive of this policy change.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I thought that was what the £5m bung was supposed to be for ?

    Nigel Farage appears to have breached MP rules after failing to declare that convicted criminal George Cottrell paid for his staff, security and social media output before 2024 election
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2073495527358959758

    Could be worse, could be the convicted criminal Donald Trump.
    Love the response.

    Reform UK said: "It comes as no surprise that The Sunday Times has chosen to publish this baseless and contrived story, covering a period of time when Nigel Farage was not even an active politician, let alone an elected one, given that the newspaper backed the Labour Party at the last general election. Contrary to the story’s tone, no parliamentary rules have been broken...
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2073495901763490054

    But yes, Trump would have been worse still.
    I am surprised Farage has been this stupid.

    I wonder if this will delay the parliamentary investigation into the £5 million?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,494

    carnforth said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    Yes, look at the history of hooliganism in association football versus the (non) history of hooliganism in rugby football.

    The latter doesn't need segregated seating.
    But why does Burnham say only top leagues? If you can't afford a pricey ticket you don't deserve or can't be trusted to drink?
    The ban only applies to the top five tiers of English football.
    I had no idea! Ta.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    edited July 4
    Formula 1 president Stefano Domenicali has confirmed the sport’s bosses are hoping to be able to restore either the Bahrain or Saudi Arabian Grand Prix.

    https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13560321/formula-1-f1-boss-stefano-domenicali-reveals-hope-to-restore-cancelled-middle-east-race-to-2026-calendar
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,970

    Eddy Elfenbein
    @EddyElfenbein

    "King George is a total loser and nobody likes him. He's completely crazy and a failure. Crazy George. That's his name now. Crazy George." - Thomas Jefferson, first draft

    https://x.com/EddyElfenbein/status/2073197628641182078
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,086

    Ratters said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    A rare sight of a liberalising policy.

    I assume it'll be very unpopular.
    The match going football fans on PB aren't supportive of this policy change.
    I admit I don't go to football matches.

    But speaking from rugby, I'd be surprised if many people manage to get more than one pint per half allowing for queues. Presumably some of said people already try to get a quick one at half time or before the match.

    I'm not sure it'd have a meaningful impact on bad behaviour. But perhaps doing trials would be sensible before a wholesale change. Start somewhere more civilised rather than diving straight into the deep end.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,974

    By the way, isn't TSE's page title incorrect?

    Surely it should be 'Ungrateful Tax Dodging Colonials'

    The original version was

    'Happy Treason Day you bunch of ungrateful tax dodging colonials/The day we decided we'd rather have India.'
    I read the thread title in the gangster Home Alone "Merry Christmas ya filthy animal" voice.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,637
    Go Paraguay.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,512


    Eddy Elfenbein
    @EddyElfenbein

    "King George is a total loser and nobody likes him. He's completely crazy and a failure. Crazy George. That's his name now. Crazy George." - Thomas Jefferson, first draft

    https://x.com/EddyElfenbein/status/2073197628641182078

    Odd that our king started publishing his tax returns around the same time the U.S. president stopped.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,752
    They are really flogging it. I wonder how many TV licences the Beeb has sold through the QR code...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,637

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    I'd ban alcohol at rugby matches too. Some tw@t carrying four pints for him and his mates, climbing the stairs at the Principality, turns at the roar for a try and drops all four pints over the nearest convenient head. It wouldn't have been so bad if it had been me, but my wife was the head in question. "Sorry but" addressed to me didn't help.
    Alcohol will never be banned at cricket matches, thank goodness.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,704
    Ratters said:

    Ratters said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    A rare sight of a liberalising policy.

    I assume it'll be very unpopular.
    The match going football fans on PB aren't supportive of this policy change.
    I admit I don't go to football matches.

    But speaking from rugby, I'd be surprised if many people manage to get more than one pint per half allowing for queues. Presumably some of said people already try to get a quick one at half time or before the match.

    I'm not sure it'd have a meaningful impact on bad behaviour. But perhaps doing trials would be sensible before a wholesale change. Start somewhere more civilised rather than diving straight into the deep end.
    Bath has a pretty good system. Pints are pre poured at the back of the bar and handed over to the till operators. Long queue goes really quickly if you are not waiting for the beers to be poured. And they sell two pint queu busters. And have trays for four pints.
    The bigger issue is the toilets...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,166

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    What a depressing indictment of British politics.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,970
    Every time we all think old media is dead it comes back with old fashioned newspaper journalism and goes 'Oh yeh?'



    Gabriel Pogrund
    @Gabriel_Pogrund

    Replying to @Gabriel_Pogrund @willroe2 and 3 others

    Sunday Times splash tonight ft @ManuMidolo @venetiamenzies @GeorgeGreenwood

    https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2073518827602629017
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,637
    edited July 4
    Sounds like Burnham is making a concerted effort to do and say things that Starmer would never have done or said in a million years, such as this alcohol at football matches idea.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    Fuck VAR!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,280
    1-0 France

    Mbappe penalty
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,068
    Curses.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,970
    edited July 4
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,267
    Andy_JS said:

    Go Paraguay.

    The filthiest most fouling team of the whole world cup ? No thanks.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,430
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Go Paraguay.

    The filthiest most fouling team of the whole world cup ? No thanks.
    It's okay if it is against France.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,280

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Go Paraguay.

    The filthiest most fouling team of the whole world cup ? No thanks.
    It's okay if it is against France.
    Today we should remember the role of France in helping the Septics win their Independence.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,280
    10 minutes' injury time!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,926
    Olise's another one who could be playing for England.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,637
    This is surely the worst refereeing we've seen so far during this competition.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,706
    AnneJGP said:

    The most striking polling result to me is the different reaction to Trump's first and second terms. Besides the Covid period - when Trump's manifest failings became all the more obvious - people's opinion of the US was not overwhelmingly negative, and not obviously damaged by the Trump presidency, but in the second term, the reaction has been much more negative. I think this is consistent with Trump's second term being much more damaging than his first, and it's interesting to see evidence of opinion reacting to things that happen, rather than being fixed in 2016.

    Seems to me a mistake to imagine things returning to how they were once Mr Trump leaves office. Trust has been damaged, and that takes quite a while to rebuild, if it ever can be rebuilt.
    I would tend to agree, but just to be contrary, if Trump is followed by an anti-Trump there will be a lot of relief from the rest of the world and a willingness to try to forget that Trump ever existed.

    We saw something along those lines when Obama replaced Bush II.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,706
    edited July 4
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy Burnham can get in the sea.

    NEW Andy Burnham says he wants to change laws to allow football fans in the top leagues to drink alcohol in their seats like rugby fans… 👇⚽️⚽️🥅

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2073489898544181486

    Why is it allowed at the rugger and cricket but not the football ?
    Are football fans considered to be uniquely uncouth or something ?
    My wife quoted me something today.

    "Soccer is a gentlemen's game played by hooligans.
    Rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen.
    GAA is a hooligan's game played by hooligans."

    I don't know if you're allowed to drink alcohol in your seat at a GAA match, but I'd guess most violence problems are caused by cocaine use these days.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,755
    Sandpit said:

    Red Arrows over New York.


    They must have been salty that they got the sideshow (NYC flyover) and Patrouille de France got the main event (DC flyover).
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,755
    algarkirk said:

    Next time you are inclined to think defence spending shouldn't be increased/Russia isn't a threat, remember this.

    Russia planning attack on Poland to test Nato resolve, US warns

    Critical infrastructure could be targeted by missiles and drones, with soldiers potentially crossing the border from Kaliningrad or Belarus


    Russia is planning an armed “provocation” on Polish soil to test Nato’s resolve, the United States has warned.

    Polish critical infrastructure could be targeted by missiles and drones or Russian soldiers could cross the border into Nato territory.

    Washington has issued several warnings to Warsaw about the plot, sources close to Karol Nawrocki, the Polish president, told Onet, the Polish news outlet, which, along with The Telegraph, is owned by Axel Springer and is part of its Global Reporters Network.

    The goal of the Russian provocation would be to escalate tensions and force Western allies to suspend aid to Ukraine. It could be launched in a matter of months.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/85bd86993903ea8b

    Four 'coulds' and a 'would' in that short passage. To say nothing of a 'sources close' and a 'potentially'. I can't identify a single claim of an actual fact.
    It's fucking idiotic and you'd have to be a fucking idiot to believe it. However, it is the Telegraph so that shouldn't need to be stated.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,926
    US president Donald Trump had a 90-minute phone call with Russian president Vladimir Putin, ⁠during which the US leader offered to help find ⁠a solution to ​the Ukraine war, a Kremlin aide has said.
    ...
    Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he also spoke to president Trump. Writing ​on his Telegram account, he described the conversation as “very good”, including a discussion on the war’s 1,200km frontline. “There is a real prospect to end this war and American resolve will have a crucial meaning,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/05/ukraine-war-briefing-trump-repositions-himself-as-peacemaker-in-long-call-with-putin
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,926
    Single mothers ‘£10k worse off if they marry’
    Women punished for choosing a stable family life, says report calling for benefit reforms

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/04/single-mothers-10k-worse-off-if-they-choose-to-marry/ (£££)

    Report is from IDS's Centre for Social Justice. The Stability Advantage can be downloaded from this page:-
    https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/library/the-stability-advantage

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,332
    edited 5:24AM
    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,056
    Betting Post

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: for what it's worth, I've backed Hamilton to be winner without Antonelli tomorrow, 3 with Ladbrokes. He has a great Silverstone record and both Leclerc and Russell have pretty weak results here. Suspect Antonelli will be over the hills and far away.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,212

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    The physics isn't completely scammy; the usual set up is a picnic cool pack and a fan, which works surprisingly well for a reasonable length of time. After all, there's not that much mass in the air in a room. So the heat was dumped at the back of the freezer some days earlier.

    As for regulating the adverts... It's the internet and all UK regulators were stretched to breaking point some time ago.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,056

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    The physics isn't completely scammy; the usual set up is a picnic cool pack and a fan, which works surprisingly well for a reasonable length of time. After all, there's not that much mass in the air in a room. So the heat was dumped at the back of the freezer some days earlier.

    As for regulating the adverts... It's the internet and all UK regulators were stretched to breaking point some time ago.
    Don't ask the government to regulate more. They'll end up wanting passport uploads to check a weather forecast.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,056
    Joy of a brief (literally sub-second) power interruption and the symphony of car alarms...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,332

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    The physics isn't completely scammy; the usual set up is a picnic cool pack and a fan, which works surprisingly well for a reasonable length of time. After all, there's not that much mass in the air in a room. So the heat was dumped at the back of the freezer some days earlier.

    As for regulating the adverts... It's the internet and all UK regulators were stretched to breaking point some time ago.
    Don't ask the government to regulate more. They'll end up wanting passport uploads to check a weather forecast.
    It’s a fair point. It’s just quite nice to think you can pretty much assume no advert on conventional TV or on the established press is lying to you.

    It’s ‘rule of law’ thing that makes for a civilised society imo.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,136

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    The ones designed by NASA engineers by any chance ?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,212
    Taz said:

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    The ones designed by NASA engineers by any chance ?
    NASA engineers whose granny was about to die of hyperthermia in a citywide power cut? Yes, those ones.

    (Why is it that citywide power cuts are enough of a thing in America for that sort of language to work?)

    Now if you'll excuse me, there appears to be a delegation of NASA engineers and their grannies at my door, all armed with baseball bats.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,926

    Taz said:

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    The ones designed by NASA engineers by any chance ?
    NASA engineers whose granny was about to die of hyperthermia in a citywide power cut? Yes, those ones.

    (Why is it that citywide power cuts are enough of a thing in America for that sort of language to work?)

    Now if you'll excuse me, there appears to be a delegation of NASA engineers and their grannies at my door, all armed with baseball bats.
    Dunno but back in the last millennium I knew a chap who went to work in New York and he could not believe the frequency of power cuts and what they called brownouts in what was arguably the cultural centre of the world.

    As for now, lots of American towns are what we would call villages in terms of size, but are far more remote, and subject to extreme weather conditions.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,621
    AnneJGP said:

    What could possibly go wrong,....

    AI lawyers could save you thousands - Law firms under pressure to lower fees and work faster or face risk of automation
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/07/04/ai-lawyers-are-here-and-could-save-you-thousands/

    Just wait until we get AI judges.
    Chris Pine and Rebecca Ferguson just did a movie (“Mercy”) about that. I rather enjoyed it although the reviews are a bit meh
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,529
    edited 6:35AM

    Single mothers ‘£10k worse off if they marry’
    Women punished for choosing a stable family life, says report calling for benefit reforms

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/04/single-mothers-10k-worse-off-if-they-choose-to-marry/ (£££)

    Report is from IDS's Centre for Social Justice. The Stability Advantage can be downloaded from this page:-
    https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/library/the-stability-advantage

    Another travesty of reporting from the Telegraph.

    This is nothing to do with marriage, it’s all about the couples versus single rates of Universal Credit. Which itself is based on the premise that a couple can live cheaper than two single people.

    Ironically, the Centre for Social Justice was set up by none other than the architect of UC Iain Duncan Smith
    And the possible solutions are:

    1) a massive increase in benefit spending as couples are given the same allowance as two singles. Millions of households would be brought into the UC threshold for the first time.
    2) a massive increase in child poverty as single parents see their allowance cut. It’s these households that make up the bulk of the non-working UC and poverty caseloads.

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,556
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Red Arrows over New York.


    They must have been salty that they got the sideshow (NYC flyover) and Patrouille de France got the main event (DC flyover).
    Having spent a lot of time in New York, I would advise that to almost every person on the Planet, NEW YORK is the USA and Washington is a very pale imitation.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,520
    Eabhal said:

    Single mothers ‘£10k worse off if they marry’
    Women punished for choosing a stable family life, says report calling for benefit reforms

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/04/single-mothers-10k-worse-off-if-they-choose-to-marry/ (£££)

    Report is from IDS's Centre for Social Justice. The Stability Advantage can be downloaded from this page:-
    https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/library/the-stability-advantage

    Another travesty of reporting from the Telegraph.

    This is nothing to do with marriage, it’s all about the couples versus single rates of Universal Credit. Which itself is based on the premise that a couple can live cheaper than two single people.

    Ironically, the Centre for Social Justice was set up by none other than the architect of UC Iain Duncan Smith
    And the possible solutions are:

    1) a massive increase in benefit spending as couples are given the same allowance as two singles. Millions of households would be brought into the UC threshold for the first time.
    2) a massive increase in child poverty as single parents see their allowance cut. It’s these households that make up the bulk of the non-working UC and poverty caseloads.

    Yesterday's discussion was about using the Tax system as a signally mechanism. Tax land. Less tax on work etc. The Benefits system is simply a mirror image.

    If you reward being single, then the economic rationale is to have more single families (though uncle Rob does stay over a few nights ...). Then there is a raft of DWP checks that single people are indeed single. So if coupling makes more economic sense at the national level then change the economics of the benefits system to reflect this. If you reward partnerships more than single families, people will partner up or reflect their real life situations to the DWP with related savings from less bedroom snooping. And if you want more children born in the UK, get rid of the two child limit and allow for more child friendly employment policies.

    So if you intend to tax economic 'sins', then reward benefits virtues.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,704

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    Yes I saw one of those during the last heatwave and nearly wet myself at the poor science! Where does the heat go?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 2,057
    edited 7:03AM
    ...
    DavidL said:

    Single mothers ‘£10k worse off if they marry’
    Women punished for choosing a stable family life, says report calling for benefit reforms

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/04/single-mothers-10k-worse-off-if-they-choose-to-marry/ (£££)

    Report is from IDS's Centre for Social Justice. The Stability Advantage can be downloaded from this page:-
    https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/library/the-stability-advantage

    Another travesty of reporting from the Telegraph.

    This is nothing to do with marriage, it’s all about the couples versus single rates of Universal Credit. Which itself is based on the premise that a couple can live cheaper than two single people.

    Ironically, the Centre for Social Justice was set up by none other than the architect of UC Iain Duncan Smith
    I recall 40 odd years ago the ratio was that 2 could live as cheaply as 1.47.

    I always found this kind of thing interesting but it was sadly ineffective as a chat up line. People are funny that way.
    At our school we have a special button to give 3 house points at once for a particularly excellent classroom contribution.

    This comment makes me pine for a '3 likes' button. Chapeau.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,704

    O/T I keep seeing adverts online for self-contained ’air conditioning’ units that break the laws of physics by generating cold without dumping the extracted heat anywhere. Does the Advertising Standards Authority’s remit not include online adverts?

    How may gullible people are being duped by these scammers I wonder?

    The physics isn't completely scammy; the usual set up is a picnic cool pack and a fan, which works surprisingly well for a reasonable length of time. After all, there's not that much mass in the air in a room. So the heat was dumped at the back of the freezer some days earlier.

    As for regulating the adverts... It's the internet and all UK regulators were stretched to breaking point some time ago.
    Not the one I saw… Appeared to be using electricity to cool something akin to the back of the fridge… Nowhere for heat to go.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,056
    Want to read something I wrote that might sound rather left wing?

    Here's my Medium (free to read) ramble lambasting the recent PlayStation decision to end discs. And yes, I do sound like a grumpy old man:

    https://medium.com/@rkilner/the-end-of-playstation-discs-53d4ce058087
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,212
    Battlebus said:

    Eabhal said:

    Single mothers ‘£10k worse off if they marry’
    Women punished for choosing a stable family life, says report calling for benefit reforms

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/04/single-mothers-10k-worse-off-if-they-choose-to-marry/ (£££)

    Report is from IDS's Centre for Social Justice. The Stability Advantage can be downloaded from this page:-
    https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/library/the-stability-advantage

    Another travesty of reporting from the Telegraph.

    This is nothing to do with marriage, it’s all about the couples versus single rates of Universal Credit. Which itself is based on the premise that a couple can live cheaper than two single people.

    Ironically, the Centre for Social Justice was set up by none other than the architect of UC Iain Duncan Smith
    And the possible solutions are:

    1) a massive increase in benefit spending as couples are given the same allowance as two singles. Millions of households would be brought into the UC threshold for the first time.
    2) a massive increase in child poverty as single parents see their allowance cut. It’s these households that make up the bulk of the non-working UC and poverty caseloads.

    Yesterday's discussion was about using the Tax system as a signally mechanism. Tax land. Less tax on work etc. The Benefits system is simply a mirror image.

    If you reward being single, then the economic rationale is to have more single families (though uncle Rob does stay over a few nights ...). Then there is a raft of DWP checks that single people are indeed single. So if coupling makes more economic sense at the national level then change the economics of the benefits system to reflect this. If you reward partnerships more than single families, people will partner up or reflect their real life situations to the DWP with related savings from less bedroom snooping. And if you want more children born in the UK, get rid of the two child limit and allow for more child friendly employment policies.

    So if you intend to tax economic 'sins', then reward benefits virtues.
    Trouble is, there are three limting points on the 'benefits solution' diagram.

    1 Pay some people less than the minimum to keep body and soul sort-of together. Social ouch.
    2 Pay some people more than the minimum to keep body and soul sort-of together. Political ouch, I fear.
    3 Pay everyone the exact minimum to keep body and soul sort-of together. Brutal clawbacks when people do the right things (like working more or coupling.)

    Option 3 is the one that minimises cost in the short term but stops problems being solved in the medium term. So of course it's the one the UK goes for.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,550

    Single mothers ‘£10k worse off if they marry’
    Women punished for choosing a stable family life, says report calling for benefit reforms

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/04/single-mothers-10k-worse-off-if-they-choose-to-marry/ (£££)

    Report is from IDS's Centre for Social Justice. The Stability Advantage can be downloaded from this page:-
    https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/library/the-stability-advantage

    Another travesty of reporting from the Telegraph.

    This is nothing to do with marriage, it’s all about the couples versus single rates of Universal Credit. Which itself is based on the premise that a couple can live cheaper than two single people.

    Ironically, the Centre for Social Justice was set up by none other than the architect of UC Iain Duncan Smith
    How is that a travesty of reporting? Precisely none of what you've written contradicts the headline.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,755

    Want to read something I wrote that might sound rather left wing?

    Here's my Medium (free to read) ramble lambasting the recent PlayStation decision to end discs. And yes, I do sound like a grumpy old man:

    https://medium.com/@rkilner/the-end-of-playstation-discs-53d4ce058087

    Your no secondhand market point is toss because people can and do buy and sell Steam accounts (even though it's against Valve's ToS) on G2G (other scammy online marketplaces are available). So for AAA titles that are going have a consistent resale value people set up a dedicated Steam account with just that game in it so it's easy to resell. If you can be arsed you can share the game account's library with your main account so you don't even need to log,in and out of different Steam IDs. Something similar will happen with PS accounts if it is not already.

    It's amazing what I learn from tutoring 18 year olds for A-Levels.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,713

    Want to read something I wrote that might sound rather left wing?

    Here's my Medium (free to read) ramble lambasting the recent PlayStation decision to end discs. And yes, I do sound like a grumpy old man:

    https://medium.com/@rkilner/the-end-of-playstation-discs-53d4ce058087

    A nice example of something being abolished before I knew it existed.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,520

    Battlebus said:

    Eabhal said:

    Single mothers ‘£10k worse off if they marry’
    Women punished for choosing a stable family life, says report calling for benefit reforms

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/04/single-mothers-10k-worse-off-if-they-choose-to-marry/ (£££)

    Report is from IDS's Centre for Social Justice. The Stability Advantage can be downloaded from this page:-
    https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/library/the-stability-advantage

    Another travesty of reporting from the Telegraph.

    This is nothing to do with marriage, it’s all about the couples versus single rates of Universal Credit. Which itself is based on the premise that a couple can live cheaper than two single people.

    Ironically, the Centre for Social Justice was set up by none other than the architect of UC Iain Duncan Smith
    And the possible solutions are:

    1) a massive increase in benefit spending as couples are given the same allowance as two singles. Millions of households would be brought into the UC threshold for the first time.
    2) a massive increase in child poverty as single parents see their allowance cut. It’s these households that make up the bulk of the non-working UC and poverty caseloads.

    Yesterday's discussion was about using the Tax system as a signally mechanism. Tax land. Less tax on work etc. The Benefits system is simply a mirror image.

    If you reward being single, then the economic rationale is to have more single families (though uncle Rob does stay over a few nights ...). Then there is a raft of DWP checks that single people are indeed single. So if coupling makes more economic sense at the national level then change the economics of the benefits system to reflect this. If you reward partnerships more than single families, people will partner up or reflect their real life situations to the DWP with related savings from less bedroom snooping. And if you want more children born in the UK, get rid of the two child limit and allow for more child friendly employment policies.

    So if you intend to tax economic 'sins', then reward benefits virtues.
    Trouble is, there are three limting points on the 'benefits solution' diagram.

    1 Pay some people less than the minimum to keep body and soul sort-of together. Social ouch.
    2 Pay some people more than the minimum to keep body and soul sort-of together. Political ouch, I fear.
    3 Pay everyone the exact minimum to keep body and soul sort-of together. Brutal clawbacks when people do the right things (like working more or coupling.)

    Option 3 is the one that minimises cost in the short term but stops problems being solved in the medium term. So of course it's the one the UK goes for.
    Would agree the UK is in phase #3 and everything gets kicked into the long grass for the next lot to solve. But assuming benefits claimants are not as economically rational as a business owner is a mistake. Economics pervades every aspect of life but politicians prefer to demonise scroungers, landlords, tax avoiders etc rather than sit down and take some time to work out the effects.

    Cameron's Behavioural Insights Team (aka the Nudge Unit) was a start but that was dumped when it was just showing fruit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,340
    Intetesting polling on the decline of US patriotism. It serms that there too is an increasing association of the flag and right wing politics.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/711938/american-pride-falls-year-record-low.aspx
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,056
    Dura_Ace said:

    Want to read something I wrote that might sound rather left wing?

    Here's my Medium (free to read) ramble lambasting the recent PlayStation decision to end discs. And yes, I do sound like a grumpy old man:

    https://medium.com/@rkilner/the-end-of-playstation-discs-53d4ce058087

    Your no secondhand market point is toss because people can and do buy and sell Steam accounts (even though it's against Valve's ToS) on G2G (other scammy online marketplaces are available). So for AAA titles that are going have a consistent resale value people set up a dedicated Steam account with just that game in it so it's easy to resell. If you can be arsed you can share the game account's library with your main account so you don't even need to log,in and out of different Steam IDs. Something similar will happen with PS accounts if it is not already.

    It's amazing what I learn from tutoring 18 year olds for A-Levels.
    Interesting counterpoint.

    Allow me to counter it, partially: most people won't do that. It's a pain. And there's also the chance that if you charge for something, give over the details, you may then find the payment gets subsequently cancelled. Hand over a physical disc and receive a tenner and that won't happen.

    I do agree that'll happen, to an extent. Unless devices themselves start getting linked to specific accounts.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,755



    Three years to go and a lot of ground to make up but I do expect Kemi to crossover with reform in the next 12 months

    The tories were SIX POINTS ahead of the Fukkers when she took over so even getting back to parity wouldn't exactly be a shining triumph.

    To stand any chance she needs Big Nige to fout le camp, whether by financial misadventure fueled scandal, ill health (yes please) or getting ousted. In a head-to-head competition of selling simplistic solutions for complex problems to people who vape she has 0% chance of beating him and shouldn't be on the same pitch.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,743
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the topic of taxing wealth or earnings there are two very different issues at play.

    Most wealth can't be taxed as it can just be taken out of the country. Taxing that is futile.

    The argument why tax wealth people have worked for is valid, but even more valid for incomes. Incomes people have worked for too.

    Increasing taxes on potentially unearned wealth, that can't be transfered out of the country, with a commensurate reduction in taxing earned incomes would be both economically and philosophically justifiable.

    What wealth can't be transferred out of the country? We come back to land ...

    Which -as I'm sure you're alluding to- is the argument for taxing land. It's much harder to hide land than other assets, and if you tax the land directly you also avoid the situation where non-UK taxpayers own land, and benefit from the ownership of land, without paying tax.
    Unless, of course, they rent the land out, in which case the tax is effectively paid by the tenants.
    I don't think that's true: the cost of renting the land is set by supply and demand. A tax on the ultimate owner doesn't affect that.

    And there's tonnes of economic literature that supports that. (The wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax gives a good summary.)


    Surely if rented property attracts, say, £1200 pa tax, landlords are all going to put their rents up by £100pcm and the tenants are going to be stuck with it.
    That's not really how it works in the real world. Let me give you a simplified example.

    Let's say there is some farm land, used for growing corn. The value of that farm land is set by how much money you can make by growing corn. If the landlord attempts to raise the rent, the tenant farmer simply won't rent it, because they cannot make enough money from farming to cover the rent.

    And that's true -in slightly more complex ways- across the whole market. Prices are set by supply (of buildings, farmland. etc.) and demand (number of people needing housing, etc). The imposition of a tax does not affect supply and demand.
    Yeah, but people who need to rent somewhere to live need to rent somewhere to live.
    That's right: demand is unaffected by the tax on landlords.

    If landlords could charge more today, they would. Why don't they? Because if they did, they wouldn't rent the place out.

    (And, by the way, if rents rise, then demand will fall. People will stay with their parents longer, or will choose to rent out their spare bedroom. Etc. etc.)
    Yes but taxes increase the cost to the landlord. Some of whom leave the market , the supply curve moves and we have fewer rental properties and higher rents.
    How does fewer rental properties create higher rents? It's possible (heck likely) that as a house is sold reducing supply by 1, it's bought by a former renter so reducing demand by one.

    Otherwise we are back to the old argument that as a landlord sells up the house magically disappears into thin air.
    the renter still cannot afford to buy and a person who would have bought in any case buys it, still means pressure on rents. Renters don't magically buy houses when landlords sell.
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