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Where did you come from, where did you go? Where did you come from, Andy Burnham?

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,719
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour, the party of the working-classes.

    "@YouGov

    Support for Labour now *rises* with household income, while Reform UK's is strongest among poorer households

    Household income: £70k or above
    Lab: 22%
    Con: 20%
    Ref: 18%
    LD: 17%
    Grn: 17%
    Rst: 2%

    Household income: Below £20k
    Ref: 30%
    Grn: 17%
    Con: 15%
    Lab: 15%
    LD: 11%
    Rst: 5%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/55084-how-would-britain-vote-two-years-since-the-2024-election "

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/2072268794605486473

    Household income below £20k won't involve a great deal of working.
    Reform. The party of benefit claimants.
    If that’s the case PB can happily look down on benefits claimants and not worry its collective consncience

    Benefits claimants are only worthy if the middle,classes look on them paternally
    Slashing benefits is only mentioned several times an hour every single day as the solution to everything.
    Yet it keeps increasing week by week and the solution is ignored.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,001
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Dreadful figures for Starmer. That's what happens when you forget you are a LABOUR PM and issues like a genocide in Gaza where 86,000 people were slaughtered matter.

    .................And arresting elderly vicars for writing 'Palestine Action' is taken as tacit approval for that genocide. Don't be fooled by Farage's facists. They are not the only voices that should have been heard

    No-one normal gives a flying fuck about Gaza mate.
    Thats actually saying nobody gives a fuck about International Law.

    Until it impacts on them
    Gaza is glorious and enthusiastic group masturbation for activist Lefties.

    They love it because it's where all their prejudices meet on class, colour, colonialism and capitalism and it's utterly irresistible to them.

    Knock yourself out, but no-one normal cares. It's entirely irrelevant to British politics and our actions are entirely irrelevant as well.
    Some people do care a lot. But what I have not noticed from those who do care is them noticing that according to Hamas's own figures 50,000 of those killed were Hamas fighters. Hamas has announced that it is paying pensions to the widows of those 50,000 fighters. Fighters get killed in wars. Killing fighters is war - not genocide. The remaining deaths are a tragedy of course.

    The UK has no useful role in the area.
    Yes, and I think it's social proof.

    I think most of those who profess to care don't actually care that much, at least no more than they would regarding what's going on in the (ongoing) Yemeni or Sudanese civil war, but it's what their political peer group passionately all want to be seen to care about, so they go along with it and join in. Without much thought, I hasten to add.

    It's a supreme form of gesture politics, which is presumably easier than actually doing something about it - unless they are proposing a big rise in British defence spending and military action against Israel to 'protect Gaza', where I'd at least give them some credit for being serious.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,719
    edited 1:29PM
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT:

    Burnham, Purnell, the Milibands.

    Its like some crap tribute act to the Gordon Brown era.

    Will Ed Balls be offered a job as well ?

    Is the Labour party admitting its not elected anyone talented from 2010 onwards ?

    And is this new Manchester economy anything more than the ultimate expression of the Gordon Brown economy - people renting foreign owned flats with massive debts all round.
    You've not been to Manchester this century have you?
    R4 More or Less
    Stats up to 2023 (latest info apparently).
    Productivity growth 2019-2023 supposedly 14% but a lot of it is down to errors or reporting changes in the ONS stats gathering over that period, real wages rose by 1% in same period.
    Changes from stats to "feel" after that, conclusion is that there "Manchesterism" is real but not as successful as claimed and that the root causes predate Burnham.
    So big, shiny buildings, more inequality and its football club changed from being perennial losers by Arab money.

    Anything else ?
    Construction of dense residential
    /commercial neighbourhoods is a much more reliable indicator of economic growth than plastering motorways everywhere. Indeed there is a strong negative correlation with the latter.

    You can’t really avoid the fact it’s dense, compact cities like London, Edinburgh etc that generate most of the economic output in the UK, and the most potential lies with other cities like Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool which fall far behind their German/Dutch/French equivalents.
    Lots of motorways in Greater Manchester.

    Anyway who's calling for more motorways ?

    But we keep coming back to people renting flats in big, shiny buildings, often foreign owned, with the poor decanted to banlieues on the outskirts.

    House price growth uber alles whereas in South Korea and Taiwan their big shiny buildings are for hi tech manufacturing.
    There have been motorways in Manchester for decades. If they were the underlying driver of economic activity you’d expect GDP per capita in the NW of England to be 15x higher than in London.

    They are a necessary enabler of economic activity, but not much more than that. The only part of the UK where you could reasonably argue that a lack of them is materially inhibiting growth is the NE of England, and even then I’m not convinced it would unlock boundless economic activity in County Durham.
    What are you talking about? London is very well connected with the M25, M1 and M40.

    Meanwhile eg Blackpool has the pathetic M55 and . . . err . . . plus . . . uhmmm . . .

    London is not lacking in infrastructure. Much of the NW absolutely is.
    Eabhal is a car hating cycling loon in Scotland. Best ignored on such matters. He should stick to Edinburgh and his BTL
    What’s with the ad hominem?
    It's just malc's way of saying hello.
    Think nothing of it.
    It wasn't Malc's post , I only said he was biased to East Coast , ie Edinburgh. Though I agreed with the sentiment, re rich Morningside resident's.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,378
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    According to recent polling, the Democrats are more likely to win the Senate contest in Texas than in Maine.
    Crazy times.
    And the powers of shit candidate selection.

    Texas - Senate Polling:

    🔵 Talarico: 48%
    🔴 Paxton: 46%

    A2 Insights / June 28, 2026

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2072180686635549088

    Not according to RCP averages https://www.realclearpolitics.com/

    They have Platner 0.7% ahead in Maine but Paxton 0.6% ahead in Texas.

    I appreciate that their averages may well have a pro Republican bias because they include some biased polling but on a comparison basis that should even out.
    I said recent polling.
    The RCP averages are a trailing indicator and the 'average' includes polling that's quite some way from recent, I think ?
    (I'm happy to be corrected if that's wrong.)
    There will be a bit of that but these states are both being polled a lot. The Maine ones are here: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/senate/general/2026/maine/collins-vs-platner

    And the Texas ones:https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/senate/general/2026/texas/paxton-vs-talarico

    All seem pretty recent. Democrats have been convincing themselves that they are finally going to take Texas since the time of LBJ. And it never seems to happen.
    Lloyd Bentsen won the Texas Senate race for the Democrats later than that in 1988, the last Democrat to do so

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_United_States_Senate_election_in_Texas
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,924

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    The A69 between Hexham and Carlisle could do with dualling. And a bypass of Warwick Bridge too.

    It would be good if they got the A66 dualled first - thankfully that project hadn’t been scraped for what would be probably the 10th time
    Liz Truss rose to be Prime Minister because she promised every hustings that she would dual their nearest A-road.
    How many did they manage to dual in her thirty three days in office?
  • berberian_knowsberberian_knows Posts: 204
    Nigelb said:

    Radar upgrades are more than just radar upgrades (and partly explain why GCAP is intended to be so big).

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/lightning-strikes-new-f-35-radar-could-have-directed-energy-attack-mode/
    F-35 program leader Lieutenant General Greg Masiello delivered something of a lite-beer testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee last week, with many questions deferred to a closed session. But the discussion (transcript here) pointed to a big and little-discussed change to air warfare technology – fighter radars so powerful that they can act as high-power microwave (HPM) weapons. And this involves not just the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning but also British Eurofighter Typhoons and the multinational Global Combat Aircraft Program (GCAP).

    HPM is not just a type of jamming. A form of directed energy, it is the targeting of an adversary’s radio-frequency (RF) devices, such as radars, communications radios and passive receivers, with pulses of energy so intense that the system is forced offline or even physically damaged. The technology is being widely offered for use against battlefield drones, but those are RF-susceptible targets at distances of a few kilometres at most.

    Masiello was talking about something that could give Godzilla a round of electroshock therapy at 200 km range.

    The story emerged as Senator Mark Kelly questioned Masiello about the new Northrop Grumman APG-85 radar that’s going into US F-35s. There have been a few revelations about that radar in the past year or so: no other country will get it, it is not interchangeable with the current APG-81 sensor, and deliveries of it have been running late. Masiello disclosed that F-35Bs have been delivered to the US Marine Corps without radars.

    Masiello also said that the ‘full capability’ of the APG-85 could not be exploited without the forthcoming upgrades to the fighter’s engine and complex cooling system. The program expects to deliver upgraded engines in 2031, but the cooling system will be ‘a few years later’ – raising cooling capacity from the current 30 kW to the future requirement, a startling 62 kW to 80 kW. Running the APG-85 more than doubles the cooling needed for the entire aircraft.

    Now that’s revealing, because if a radar needs remarkably more cooling, it must be pumping remarkably greater energy out through its antenna...

    It would need to - according to AI an X-band radar as found on a fighter jet (which is best for passing through air) would have a beam radius of at least 6km at 200km distance because of the diffraction limit.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,658
    malcolmg said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour, the party of the working-classes.

    "@YouGov

    Support for Labour now *rises* with household income, while Reform UK's is strongest among poorer households

    Household income: £70k or above
    Lab: 22%
    Con: 20%
    Ref: 18%
    LD: 17%
    Grn: 17%
    Rst: 2%

    Household income: Below £20k
    Ref: 30%
    Grn: 17%
    Con: 15%
    Lab: 15%
    LD: 11%
    Rst: 5%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/55084-how-would-britain-vote-two-years-since-the-2024-election "

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/2072268794605486473

    Household income below £20k won't involve a great deal of working.
    Reform. The party of benefit claimants.
    If that’s the case PB can happily look down on benefits claimants and not worry its collective consncience

    Benefits claimants are only worthy if the middle,classes look on them paternally
    Slashing benefits is only mentioned several times an hour every single day as the solution to everything.
    Yet it keeps increasing week by week and the solution is ignored.
    Execution of all over 80? Bit harsh...

    There are some alarming stats on the BBC article earlier.

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

    "At the same time, almost half of working‑age adults are not paying into a private pension pot. That means many will be relying solely on the state pension for their retirement income..."
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,200

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,432
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT:

    Burnham, Purnell, the Milibands.

    Its like some crap tribute act to the Gordon Brown era.

    Will Ed Balls be offered a job as well ?

    Is the Labour party admitting its not elected anyone talented from 2010 onwards ?

    And is this new Manchester economy anything more than the ultimate expression of the Gordon Brown economy - people renting foreign owned flats with massive debts all round.
    You've not been to Manchester this century have you?
    R4 More or Less
    Stats up to 2023 (latest info apparently).
    Productivity growth 2019-2023 supposedly 14% but a lot of it is down to errors or reporting changes in the ONS stats gathering over that period, real wages rose by 1% in same period.
    Changes from stats to "feel" after that, conclusion is that there "Manchesterism" is real but not as successful as claimed and that the root causes predate Burnham.
    So big, shiny buildings, more inequality and its football club changed from being perennial losers by Arab money.

    Anything else ?
    Construction of dense residential
    /commercial neighbourhoods is a much more reliable indicator of economic growth than plastering motorways everywhere. Indeed there is a strong negative correlation with the latter.

    You can’t really avoid the fact it’s dense, compact cities like London, Edinburgh etc that generate most of the economic output in the UK, and the most potential lies with other cities like Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool which fall far behind their German/Dutch/French equivalents.
    Lots of motorways in Greater Manchester.

    Anyway who's calling for more motorways ?

    But we keep coming back to people renting flats in big, shiny buildings, often foreign owned, with the poor decanted to banlieues on the outskirts.

    House price growth uber alles whereas in South Korea and Taiwan their big shiny buildings are for hi tech manufacturing.
    There have been motorways in Manchester for decades. If they were the underlying driver of economic activity you’d expect GDP per capita in the NW of England to be 15x higher than in London.

    They are a necessary enabler of economic activity, but not much more than that. The only part of the UK where you could reasonably argue that a lack of them is materially inhibiting growth is the NE of England, and even then I’m not convinced it would unlock boundless economic activity in County Durham.
    What are you talking about? London is very well connected with the M25, M1 and M40.

    Meanwhile eg Blackpool has the pathetic M55 and . . . err . . . plus . . . uhmmm . . .

    London is not lacking in infrastructure. Much of the NW absolutely is.
    Eabhal is a car hating cycling loon in Scotland. Best ignored on such matters. He should stick to Edinburgh and his BTL
    What’s with the ad hominem?
    It's just malc's way of saying hello.
    Think nothing of it.
    It wasn't Malc's post , I only said he was biased to East Coast , ie Edinburgh. Though I agreed with the sentiment, re rich Morningside resident's.
    Apologies, Malcolm.
    Other than me using a smartphone to read that, I don't know what happened there.

    I don't know if it's a good or bad thing that I mistook Taz for you ?
    (Or indeed which of the two of you might be flattered/insulted.)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,658
    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,200
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Dreadful figures for Starmer. That's what happens when you forget you are a LABOUR PM and issues like a genocide in Gaza where 86,000 people were slaughtered matter.

    .................And arresting elderly vicars for writing 'Palestine Action' is taken as tacit approval for that genocide. Don't be fooled by Farage's facists. They are not the only voices that should have been heard

    No-one normal gives a flying fuck about Gaza mate.
    Thats actually saying nobody gives a fuck about International Law.

    Until it impacts on them
    Gaza is glorious and enthusiastic group masturbation for activist Lefties.

    They love it because it's where all their prejudices meet on class, colour, colonialism and capitalism and it's utterly irresistible to them.

    Knock yourself out, but no-one normal cares. It's entirely irrelevant to British politics and our actions are entirely irrelevant as well.
    Some people do care a lot. But what I have not noticed from those who do care is them noticing that according to Hamas's own figures 50,000 of those killed were Hamas fighters. Hamas has announced that it is paying pensions to the widows of those 50,000 fighters. Fighters get killed in wars. Killing fighters is war - not genocide. The remaining deaths are a tragedy of course.

    The UK has no useful role in the area.
    Where on earth have you got that figure from!! I think you've misquoted with an extra zero in there.

    From Gemini with sources:
    Internal Israeli Intelligence Data:
    A leaked internal database from the IDF's Military Intelligence Directorate (Aman)—obtained and analyzed by international outlets like The Guardian—indicated that internally, the military had firmly verified the deaths of around 7,330 to 8,900 operatives, concluding that roughly 83% of the overall dead were civilians.

    Hamas Claims:

    Internal accounts from Hamas members estimated their fighter casualties to be significantly lower, placing the figure at around 6,500 combatants killed.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,432

    Nigelb said:

    Radar upgrades are more than just radar upgrades (and partly explain why GCAP is intended to be so big).

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/lightning-strikes-new-f-35-radar-could-have-directed-energy-attack-mode/
    F-35 program leader Lieutenant General Greg Masiello delivered something of a lite-beer testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee last week, with many questions deferred to a closed session. But the discussion (transcript here) pointed to a big and little-discussed change to air warfare technology – fighter radars so powerful that they can act as high-power microwave (HPM) weapons. And this involves not just the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning but also British Eurofighter Typhoons and the multinational Global Combat Aircraft Program (GCAP).

    HPM is not just a type of jamming. A form of directed energy, it is the targeting of an adversary’s radio-frequency (RF) devices, such as radars, communications radios and passive receivers, with pulses of energy so intense that the system is forced offline or even physically damaged. The technology is being widely offered for use against battlefield drones, but those are RF-susceptible targets at distances of a few kilometres at most.

    Masiello was talking about something that could give Godzilla a round of electroshock therapy at 200 km range.

    The story emerged as Senator Mark Kelly questioned Masiello about the new Northrop Grumman APG-85 radar that’s going into US F-35s. There have been a few revelations about that radar in the past year or so: no other country will get it, it is not interchangeable with the current APG-81 sensor, and deliveries of it have been running late. Masiello disclosed that F-35Bs have been delivered to the US Marine Corps without radars.

    Masiello also said that the ‘full capability’ of the APG-85 could not be exploited without the forthcoming upgrades to the fighter’s engine and complex cooling system. The program expects to deliver upgraded engines in 2031, but the cooling system will be ‘a few years later’ – raising cooling capacity from the current 30 kW to the future requirement, a startling 62 kW to 80 kW. Running the APG-85 more than doubles the cooling needed for the entire aircraft.

    Now that’s revealing, because if a radar needs remarkably more cooling, it must be pumping remarkably greater energy out through its antenna...

    It would need to - according to AI an X-band radar as found on a fighter jet (which is best for passing through air) would have a beam radius of at least 6km at 200km distance because of the diffraction limit.
    Not with a phased array source, which allows tricks like this.

    Dynamic Beam Control Method for Multiple Moving Targets in Microwave Wireless Power Transmission
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mop.70645

    (note the paper is from China)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,200

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,622
    malcolmg said:

    I don't think I'll ever get used to Halifax Town being re-named Lloyds Town. Just doesn't sound right.

    Could be renamed Scotland town instead. I've been a Haifax customer for 35 years and they just made my current account a Bank of Scotland account! I don't even live in Scotland. And the rest of my accounts are still Halifax accounts...
    Banks are nearly all online so most people likely don't live in same country as their bank.
    Yeah, I first opened the account in 1991 when I lived in Fife and got my first job aged 15 and needed somewhere to get paid my £1.50/hour wage. Halifax was on the same street as my employer. I think the account is still classed as Scottish even though the branch closed years ago and I've not lived in Scotland for over 30 years...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,930
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    I think it's quite a bold claim that Israel let the attack happen.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,864

    malcolmg said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour, the party of the working-classes.

    "@YouGov

    Support for Labour now *rises* with household income, while Reform UK's is strongest among poorer households

    Household income: £70k or above
    Lab: 22%
    Con: 20%
    Ref: 18%
    LD: 17%
    Grn: 17%
    Rst: 2%

    Household income: Below £20k
    Ref: 30%
    Grn: 17%
    Con: 15%
    Lab: 15%
    LD: 11%
    Rst: 5%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/55084-how-would-britain-vote-two-years-since-the-2024-election "

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/2072268794605486473

    Household income below £20k won't involve a great deal of working.
    Reform. The party of benefit claimants.
    If that’s the case PB can happily look down on benefits claimants and not worry its collective consncience

    Benefits claimants are only worthy if the middle,classes look on them paternally
    Slashing benefits is only mentioned several times an hour every single day as the solution to everything.
    Yet it keeps increasing week by week and the solution is ignored.
    Execution of all over 80? Bit harsh...

    There are some alarming stats on the BBC article earlier.

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

    "At the same time, almost half of working‑age adults are not paying into a private pension pot. That means many will be relying solely on the state pension for their retirement income..."
    What's the problem? Surely the state pension is so generous we can abandon the triple lock? All boomers are millionaires anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,432
    More commentary on the birthright citizenship decision.

    The 14th amendment was adopted by more than 2/3rds of the members of Congress and thereafter ratified by 3/4ths of the states. Yet, nowhere can the Court or its proponents point to all those elected representatives at the federal and state level who argued for birthright citizenship for the children of aliens — illegal aliens of all matter! In fact, it wasn’t even on their collective mind. They were dealing with Reconstruction, which was going poorly.
    https://x.com/marklevinshow/status/2072006375685706041

    Mark Levin is either outright lying or tacitly admitting he did not read the decision, because the Court explicitly discussed in great detail how “those elected representatives” intended the 14th Amendment would apply to children of immigrants.
    Here’s the majority opinion..

    https://x.com/ReichlinMelnick/status/2072290682342187013

    The Congressional sponsor of the bill back then noted that "it would make citizens of the children of Chinese and Gypsies born in this country".
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 22,145
    edited 1:52PM

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    There are a range of middling "targets" which are mostly civilian but include some Hamas (who are certainly not above hiding in the civilian population). Israel treats them all as targets, resulting in people, including babies, with no interest in politics being killed - "very regrettable collateral damage".

    I'd think that retaliation was understandable if it only hit Hamas. Quite apart from the ethics of the matter, by widening the targets Israel creates new recruits for Hamas, the result of which is partly that every "final offensive" turns out to leave lots of new Hamas supporters (the relatives of the people killed, for instance) untouched.

    I don't even credit them with aiming to end the war - I think that Netanyahu enjoys being "war leader" and is concerned about the trial implications if that stops.

    None of this criticism implies sympathy with Hamas, but if you behave like war criminals you are by definition one yourself.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,719

    malcolmg said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour, the party of the working-classes.

    "@YouGov

    Support for Labour now *rises* with household income, while Reform UK's is strongest among poorer households

    Household income: £70k or above
    Lab: 22%
    Con: 20%
    Ref: 18%
    LD: 17%
    Grn: 17%
    Rst: 2%

    Household income: Below £20k
    Ref: 30%
    Grn: 17%
    Con: 15%
    Lab: 15%
    LD: 11%
    Rst: 5%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/55084-how-would-britain-vote-two-years-since-the-2024-election "

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/2072268794605486473

    Household income below £20k won't involve a great deal of working.
    Reform. The party of benefit claimants.
    If that’s the case PB can happily look down on benefits claimants and not worry its collective consncience

    Benefits claimants are only worthy if the middle,classes look on them paternally
    Slashing benefits is only mentioned several times an hour every single day as the solution to everything.
    Yet it keeps increasing week by week and the solution is ignored.
    Execution of all over 80? Bit harsh...

    There are some alarming stats on the BBC article earlier.

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

    "At the same time, almost half of working‑age adults are not paying into a private pension pot. That means many will be relying solely on the state pension for their retirement income..."
    Harsh for sure, however if they have no private income they will get pension credits and then showered with all sorts of goodies and allowances. It is the poor mugs who have worked all their lives and have a small private pension , they get nothing whatsoever
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,719

    malcolmg said:

    I don't think I'll ever get used to Halifax Town being re-named Lloyds Town. Just doesn't sound right.

    Could be renamed Scotland town instead. I've been a Haifax customer for 35 years and they just made my current account a Bank of Scotland account! I don't even live in Scotland. And the rest of my accounts are still Halifax accounts...
    Banks are nearly all online so most people likely don't live in same country as their bank.
    Yeah, I first opened the account in 1991 when I lived in Fife and got my first job aged 15 and needed somewhere to get paid my £1.50/hour wage. Halifax was on the same street as my employer. I think the account is still classed as Scottish even though the branch closed years ago and I've not lived in Scotland for over 30 years...
    Yes irrelevant now unless they are crap. I have Bank of Scotland and Santander, have not been in Bank of Scotland forever and very rarely Santander apart from putting some cheques in years ago.
    In old days the manager used to give you a good bollocking for being overdrawn, was worse than going into headmaster's at school.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,864
    UK.gov vows to cut consultancy spending, then hands up to £350M to consultancies
    Home Office deals with Deloitte and PA Consulting raise questions over Cabinet Office spending controls

    https://www.theregister.com/public-sector/2026/07/01/ukgov-vows-to-cut-consultancy-spending-then-hands-up-to-350m-to-consultancies/5264864
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 881
    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    "The event shouldn't have happened," followed by a lot of supposition isn't a good answer to "what should the response to the event have been?"

    Hamas' response to the Israeli response should have been to release the hostages.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,719
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT:

    Burnham, Purnell, the Milibands.

    Its like some crap tribute act to the Gordon Brown era.

    Will Ed Balls be offered a job as well ?

    Is the Labour party admitting its not elected anyone talented from 2010 onwards ?

    And is this new Manchester economy anything more than the ultimate expression of the Gordon Brown economy - people renting foreign owned flats with massive debts all round.
    You've not been to Manchester this century have you?
    R4 More or Less
    Stats up to 2023 (latest info apparently).
    Productivity growth 2019-2023 supposedly 14% but a lot of it is down to errors or reporting changes in the ONS stats gathering over that period, real wages rose by 1% in same period.
    Changes from stats to "feel" after that, conclusion is that there "Manchesterism" is real but not as successful as claimed and that the root causes predate Burnham.
    So big, shiny buildings, more inequality and its football club changed from being perennial losers by Arab money.

    Anything else ?
    Construction of dense residential
    /commercial neighbourhoods is a much more reliable indicator of economic growth than plastering motorways everywhere. Indeed there is a strong negative correlation with the latter.

    You can’t really avoid the fact it’s dense, compact cities like London, Edinburgh etc that generate most of the economic output in the UK, and the most potential lies with other cities like Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool which fall far behind their German/Dutch/French equivalents.
    Lots of motorways in Greater Manchester.

    Anyway who's calling for more motorways ?

    But we keep coming back to people renting flats in big, shiny buildings, often foreign owned, with the poor decanted to banlieues on the outskirts.

    House price growth uber alles whereas in South Korea and Taiwan their big shiny buildings are for hi tech manufacturing.
    There have been motorways in Manchester for decades. If they were the underlying driver of economic activity you’d expect GDP per capita in the NW of England to be 15x higher than in London.

    They are a necessary enabler of economic activity, but not much more than that. The only part of the UK where you could reasonably argue that a lack of them is materially inhibiting growth is the NE of England, and even then I’m not convinced it would unlock boundless economic activity in County Durham.
    What are you talking about? London is very well connected with the M25, M1 and M40.

    Meanwhile eg Blackpool has the pathetic M55 and . . . err . . . plus . . . uhmmm . . .

    London is not lacking in infrastructure. Much of the NW absolutely is.
    Eabhal is a car hating cycling loon in Scotland. Best ignored on such matters. He should stick to Edinburgh and his BTL
    What’s with the ad hominem?
    It's just malc's way of saying hello.
    Think nothing of it.
    It wasn't Malc's post , I only said he was biased to East Coast , ie Edinburgh. Though I agreed with the sentiment, re rich Morningside resident's.
    Apologies, Malcolm.
    Other than me using a smartphone to read that, I don't know what happened there.

    I don't know if it's a good or bad thing that I mistook Taz for you ?
    (Or indeed which of the two of you might be flattered/insulted.)
    Tag team Nigel
  • berberian_knowsberberian_knows Posts: 204
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Radar upgrades are more than just radar upgrades (and partly explain why GCAP is intended to be so big).

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/lightning-strikes-new-f-35-radar-could-have-directed-energy-attack-mode/
    F-35 program leader Lieutenant General Greg Masiello delivered something of a lite-beer testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee last week, with many questions deferred to a closed session. But the discussion (transcript here) pointed to a big and little-discussed change to air warfare technology – fighter radars so powerful that they can act as high-power microwave (HPM) weapons. And this involves not just the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning but also British Eurofighter Typhoons and the multinational Global Combat Aircraft Program (GCAP).

    HPM is not just a type of jamming. A form of directed energy, it is the targeting of an adversary’s radio-frequency (RF) devices, such as radars, communications radios and passive receivers, with pulses of energy so intense that the system is forced offline or even physically damaged. The technology is being widely offered for use against battlefield drones, but those are RF-susceptible targets at distances of a few kilometres at most.

    Masiello was talking about something that could give Godzilla a round of electroshock therapy at 200 km range.

    The story emerged as Senator Mark Kelly questioned Masiello about the new Northrop Grumman APG-85 radar that’s going into US F-35s. There have been a few revelations about that radar in the past year or so: no other country will get it, it is not interchangeable with the current APG-81 sensor, and deliveries of it have been running late. Masiello disclosed that F-35Bs have been delivered to the US Marine Corps without radars.

    Masiello also said that the ‘full capability’ of the APG-85 could not be exploited without the forthcoming upgrades to the fighter’s engine and complex cooling system. The program expects to deliver upgraded engines in 2031, but the cooling system will be ‘a few years later’ – raising cooling capacity from the current 30 kW to the future requirement, a startling 62 kW to 80 kW. Running the APG-85 more than doubles the cooling needed for the entire aircraft.

    Now that’s revealing, because if a radar needs remarkably more cooling, it must be pumping remarkably greater energy out through its antenna...

    It would need to - according to AI an X-band radar as found on a fighter jet (which is best for passing through air) would have a beam radius of at least 6km at 200km distance because of the diffraction limit.
    Not with a phased array source, which allows tricks like this.

    Dynamic Beam Control Method for Multiple Moving Targets in Microwave Wireless Power Transmission
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mop.70645

    (note the paper is from China)
    That's "just" amazing targeting (I think - I can only see the abstract). It'll still be 6km wide due to the uncertainty principle. It might be able to fry the enemy's radar but "giving Godzilla electoshock therapy" sounds unlikely.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,658
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    No intelligence is perfect. And frankly blaming Israel for the attack is ridiculous. Were Poland responsible for 1939? And I think my analogy rather does work, thanks.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,658

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    There are a range of middling "targets" which are mostly civilian but include some Hamas (who are certainly not above hiding in the civilian population). Israel treats them all as targets, resulting in people, including babies, with no interest in politics being killed - "very regrettable collateral damage".

    I'd think that retaliation was understandable if it only hit Hamas. Quite apart from the ethics of the matter, by widening the targets Israel creates new recruits for Hamas, the result of which is partly that every "final offensive" turns out to leave lots of new Hamas supporters (the relatives of the people killed, for instance) untouched.

    I don't even credit them with aiming to end the war - I think that Netanyahu enjoys being "war leader" and is concerned about the trial implications if that stops.

    None of this criticism implies sympathy with Hamas, but if you behave like war criminals you are by definition one yourself.
    How does one 'only hit Hamas'? Do you ask nicely for all Hamas fighters to go and stand in a field away from any other people? Some rather odd comments on PB at times. I get that people are horrified by what has happened. I don't think Israel has gone about this the right way. But Hamas are well known for fighting a guerilla war, and for using bases in and around civilians.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,645
    dixiedean said:

    The A69 between Hexham and Carlisle could do with dualling. And a bypass of Warwick Bridge too.

    This is a bit parochial but if they bypassed Warwick Bridge how would they make up for the trillions of revenue pouring in from the famous speed trap there?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,124
    For all those of you discussing bodycount in the Gaza-Israel war, please note that bodycount is a very difficult metric to work with. It is difficult to compile in real- or near-real time, is subject to the principal-agent problem (where those gathering the info may have different intent to those requesting it), is fragile even for people of good intent and is easily distorted by those with malevolent intent.

    I'm reading Sumption's "The Challenges Of Democracy" and if you crossreference to Roberts & Petraeus's "Conflict" you will see two sets of people, both honorable and wise, come to diametrically opposed conclusions regarding bodycount statistics in Gaza.

    More objective statistics such as "area destroyed/damaged" or even better "area occupied" are preferred.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,864
    Claude Code users complain their chat records are being mysteriously wiped out
    Got important chats older than 30 days? You'd better be sure the transcripts still exist

    https://www.theregister.com/ai-and-ml/2026/06/30/claude-code-users-complain-their-chat-records-are-being-mysteriously-wiped-out/5264673

    A warning for PB's AI users.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,200
    edited 2:23PM
    tlg86 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    I think it's quite a bold claim that Israel let the attack happen.
    There was a complete and unusual failure of IDF intelligence and communications.

    According to declassified IDF investigation findings and intelligence leaks, several highly unusual tactical anomalies occurred on the eve of the atrocity:

    Around midnight on October 6—six and a half hours before the assault—Israeli intelligence detected hundreds of Hamas fighters simultaneously activating Israeli SIM cards in their phones. This was a known operational indicator for an incursion.

    Border surveillance units noted a sudden, eerie halt to all standard Hamas routines and communications just hours before the outbreak, which was highly uncharacteristic of their usual border presence.

    Female border surveillance soldiers stationed at bases like Nahal Oz repeatedly documented Hamas fighters conducting highly structured rehearsals. These included practicing using paragliders, driving convoys of up to 10 pickup trucks, detonating mock border gates, and filming Israeli camera installations.

    Why were these signs ignored?

    Netanyahu saw a functional Hamas as a strategic asset to keep the Palestinian leadership divided (and had previously approved the transfer of cash to Hamas from Qatar).

    Of course, It's inconceivable that the IDF/Netanyahu knowingly allowed the atrocity to take place.
    But the mindset that Hamas was under control surely contributed to the blindness to the data.

    An inquiry is needed, but it won't be held until after the war ends.
    Another reason for it not to end.

    Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack. They had the evidence and ignored it.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,200
    Monkeys said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    "The event shouldn't have happened," followed by a lot of supposition isn't a good answer to "what should the response to the event have been?"

    Hamas' response to the Israeli response should have been to release the hostages.
    My second paragraph was a good answer to "what should the response to the event have been?"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,658
    Barnesian said:

    tlg86 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    I think it's quite a bold claim that Israel let the attack happen.
    There was a complete and unusual failure of IDF intelligence and communications.

    According to declassified IDF investigation findings and intelligence leaks, several highly unusual tactical anomalies occurred on the eve of the atrocity:

    Around midnight on October 6—six and a half hours before the assault—Israeli intelligence detected hundreds of Hamas fighters simultaneously activating Israeli SIM cards in their phones. This was a known operational indicator for an incursion.

    Border surveillance units noted a sudden, eerie halt to all standard Hamas routines and communications just hours before the outbreak, which was highly uncharacteristic of their usual border presence.


    Female border surveillance soldiers stationed at bases like Nahal Oz repeatedly documented Hamas fighters conducting highly structured rehearsals. These included practicing using paragliders, driving convoys of up to 10 pickup trucks, detonating mock border gates, and filming Israeli camera installations.

    Why were these signs ignored?

    Netanyahu saw a functional Hamas as a strategic asset to keep the Palestinian leadership divided (and had previously approved the transfer of cash to Hamas from Qatar).

    Of course, It's inconceivable that the IDF/Netanyahu knowingly allowed the atrocity to take place.
    But the mindset that Hamas was under control surely contributed to the blindness to the data.

    An inquiry is needed, but it won't be held until after the war ends.
    Another reason for it not to end.

    Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack. They had the evidence and ignored it.
    So lets assume that they see the preps in bold above. What do they do in response?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,200

    Barnesian said:

    tlg86 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    I think it's quite a bold claim that Israel let the attack happen.
    There was a complete and unusual failure of IDF intelligence and communications.

    According to declassified IDF investigation findings and intelligence leaks, several highly unusual tactical anomalies occurred on the eve of the atrocity:

    Around midnight on October 6—six and a half hours before the assault—Israeli intelligence detected hundreds of Hamas fighters simultaneously activating Israeli SIM cards in their phones. This was a known operational indicator for an incursion.

    Border surveillance units noted a sudden, eerie halt to all standard Hamas routines and communications just hours before the outbreak, which was highly uncharacteristic of their usual border presence.


    Female border surveillance soldiers stationed at bases like Nahal Oz repeatedly documented Hamas fighters conducting highly structured rehearsals. These included practicing using paragliders, driving convoys of up to 10 pickup trucks, detonating mock border gates, and filming Israeli camera installations.

    Why were these signs ignored?

    Netanyahu saw a functional Hamas as a strategic asset to keep the Palestinian leadership divided (and had previously approved the transfer of cash to Hamas from Qatar).

    Of course, It's inconceivable that the IDF/Netanyahu knowingly allowed the atrocity to take place.
    But the mindset that Hamas was under control surely contributed to the blindness to the data.

    An inquiry is needed, but it won't be held until after the war ends.
    Another reason for it not to end.

    Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack. They had the evidence and ignored it.
    So lets assume that they see the preps in bold above. What do they do in response?
    1. They immediately move IDF soldiers and equipment to the Gaza border where the rehearals have been taking place.
    2. They immediately warn Israelis near the border to evacuate or take protective cover.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,207
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Dreadful figures for Starmer. That's what happens when you forget you are a LABOUR PM and issues like a genocide in Gaza where 86,000 people were slaughtered matter.

    .................And arresting elderly vicars for writing 'Palestine Action' is taken as tacit approval for that genocide. Don't be fooled by Farage's facists. They are not the only voices that should have been heard

    No-one normal gives a flying fuck about Gaza mate.
    Thats actually saying nobody gives a fuck about International Law.

    Until it impacts on them
    Gaza is glorious and enthusiastic group masturbation for activist Lefties.

    They love it because it's where all their prejudices meet on class, colour, colonialism and capitalism and it's utterly irresistible to them.

    Knock yourself out, but no-one normal cares. It's entirely irrelevant to British politics and our actions are entirely irrelevant as well.
    Some people do care a lot. But what I have not noticed from those who do care is them noticing that according to Hamas's own figures 50,000 of those killed were Hamas fighters. Hamas has announced that it is paying pensions to the widows of those 50,000 fighters. Fighters get killed in wars. Killing fighters is war - not genocide. The remaining deaths are a tragedy of course.

    The UK has no useful role in the area.
    Completely invented figures. Why bother?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,930
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    tlg86 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    I think it's quite a bold claim that Israel let the attack happen.
    There was a complete and unusual failure of IDF intelligence and communications.

    According to declassified IDF investigation findings and intelligence leaks, several highly unusual tactical anomalies occurred on the eve of the atrocity:

    Around midnight on October 6—six and a half hours before the assault—Israeli intelligence detected hundreds of Hamas fighters simultaneously activating Israeli SIM cards in their phones. This was a known operational indicator for an incursion.

    Border surveillance units noted a sudden, eerie halt to all standard Hamas routines and communications just hours before the outbreak, which was highly uncharacteristic of their usual border presence.


    Female border surveillance soldiers stationed at bases like Nahal Oz repeatedly documented Hamas fighters conducting highly structured rehearsals. These included practicing using paragliders, driving convoys of up to 10 pickup trucks, detonating mock border gates, and filming Israeli camera installations.

    Why were these signs ignored?

    Netanyahu saw a functional Hamas as a strategic asset to keep the Palestinian leadership divided (and had previously approved the transfer of cash to Hamas from Qatar).

    Of course, It's inconceivable that the IDF/Netanyahu knowingly allowed the atrocity to take place.
    But the mindset that Hamas was under control surely contributed to the blindness to the data.

    An inquiry is needed, but it won't be held until after the war ends.
    Another reason for it not to end.

    Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack. They had the evidence and ignored it.
    So lets assume that they see the preps in bold above. What do they do in response?
    1. They immediately move IDF soldiers and equipment to the Gaza border where the rehearals have been taking place.
    2. They immediately warn Israelis near the border to evacuate or take protective cover.
    But no pre-emptive action?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,251

    Claude Code users complain their chat records are being mysteriously wiped out
    Got important chats older than 30 days? You'd better be sure the transcripts still exist

    https://www.theregister.com/ai-and-ml/2026/06/30/claude-code-users-complain-their-chat-records-are-being-mysteriously-wiped-out/5264673

    A warning for PB's AI users.

    Elsewhere.....

    AI keeping tabs on users by maintaining data on them months and even years after the chat happened!

    A warning for AI users.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,200
    tlg86 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    tlg86 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    I think it's quite a bold claim that Israel let the attack happen.
    There was a complete and unusual failure of IDF intelligence and communications.

    According to declassified IDF investigation findings and intelligence leaks, several highly unusual tactical anomalies occurred on the eve of the atrocity:

    Around midnight on October 6—six and a half hours before the assault—Israeli intelligence detected hundreds of Hamas fighters simultaneously activating Israeli SIM cards in their phones. This was a known operational indicator for an incursion.

    Border surveillance units noted a sudden, eerie halt to all standard Hamas routines and communications just hours before the outbreak, which was highly uncharacteristic of their usual border presence.


    Female border surveillance soldiers stationed at bases like Nahal Oz repeatedly documented Hamas fighters conducting highly structured rehearsals. These included practicing using paragliders, driving convoys of up to 10 pickup trucks, detonating mock border gates, and filming Israeli camera installations.

    Why were these signs ignored?

    Netanyahu saw a functional Hamas as a strategic asset to keep the Palestinian leadership divided (and had previously approved the transfer of cash to Hamas from Qatar).

    Of course, It's inconceivable that the IDF/Netanyahu knowingly allowed the atrocity to take place.
    But the mindset that Hamas was under control surely contributed to the blindness to the data.

    An inquiry is needed, but it won't be held until after the war ends.
    Another reason for it not to end.

    Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack. They had the evidence and ignored it.
    So lets assume that they see the preps in bold above. What do they do in response?
    1. They immediately move IDF soldiers and equipment to the Gaza border where the rehearals have been taking place.
    2. They immediately warn Israelis near the border to evacuate or take protective cover.
    But no pre-emptive action?
    Yes. What do you suggest?
    I'm not an expert in this area.
    But I think they should have reacted.
    This is not in any way excusing Hamas.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,575
    edited 2:41PM
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    tlg86 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    I take issue with the first line. That's rather like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
    Don't you agree that Israel should have prevented the attack if they knew about it?

    Your analogy simply does not work.
    I think it's quite a bold claim that Israel let the attack happen.
    There was a complete and unusual failure of IDF intelligence and communications.

    According to declassified IDF investigation findings and intelligence leaks, several highly unusual tactical anomalies occurred on the eve of the atrocity:

    Around midnight on October 6—six and a half hours before the assault—Israeli intelligence detected hundreds of Hamas fighters simultaneously activating Israeli SIM cards in their phones. This was a known operational indicator for an incursion.

    Border surveillance units noted a sudden, eerie halt to all standard Hamas routines and communications just hours before the outbreak, which was highly uncharacteristic of their usual border presence.


    Female border surveillance soldiers stationed at bases like Nahal Oz repeatedly documented Hamas fighters conducting highly structured rehearsals. These included practicing using paragliders, driving convoys of up to 10 pickup trucks, detonating mock border gates, and filming Israeli camera installations.

    Why were these signs ignored?

    Netanyahu saw a functional Hamas as a strategic asset to keep the Palestinian leadership divided (and had previously approved the transfer of cash to Hamas from Qatar).

    Of course, It's inconceivable that the IDF/Netanyahu knowingly allowed the atrocity to take place.
    But the mindset that Hamas was under control surely contributed to the blindness to the data.

    An inquiry is needed, but it won't be held until after the war ends.
    Another reason for it not to end.

    Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack. They had the evidence and ignored it.
    So lets assume that they see the preps in bold above. What do they do in response?
    1. They immediately move IDF soldiers and equipment to the Gaza border where the rehearals have been taking place.
    2. They immediately warn Israelis near the border to evacuate or take protective cover.
    To be fair, looks more like Israel could have prevented the attack than should. Or perhaps Israel could easily have prevented the attack, or at least significantly reduced it's severity.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,307

    NEW THREAD

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,432

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Radar upgrades are more than just radar upgrades (and partly explain why GCAP is intended to be so big).

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/lightning-strikes-new-f-35-radar-could-have-directed-energy-attack-mode/
    F-35 program leader Lieutenant General Greg Masiello delivered something of a lite-beer testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee last week, with many questions deferred to a closed session. But the discussion (transcript here) pointed to a big and little-discussed change to air warfare technology – fighter radars so powerful that they can act as high-power microwave (HPM) weapons. And this involves not just the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning but also British Eurofighter Typhoons and the multinational Global Combat Aircraft Program (GCAP).

    HPM is not just a type of jamming. A form of directed energy, it is the targeting of an adversary’s radio-frequency (RF) devices, such as radars, communications radios and passive receivers, with pulses of energy so intense that the system is forced offline or even physically damaged. The technology is being widely offered for use against battlefield drones, but those are RF-susceptible targets at distances of a few kilometres at most.

    Masiello was talking about something that could give Godzilla a round of electroshock therapy at 200 km range.

    The story emerged as Senator Mark Kelly questioned Masiello about the new Northrop Grumman APG-85 radar that’s going into US F-35s. There have been a few revelations about that radar in the past year or so: no other country will get it, it is not interchangeable with the current APG-81 sensor, and deliveries of it have been running late. Masiello disclosed that F-35Bs have been delivered to the US Marine Corps without radars.

    Masiello also said that the ‘full capability’ of the APG-85 could not be exploited without the forthcoming upgrades to the fighter’s engine and complex cooling system. The program expects to deliver upgraded engines in 2031, but the cooling system will be ‘a few years later’ – raising cooling capacity from the current 30 kW to the future requirement, a startling 62 kW to 80 kW. Running the APG-85 more than doubles the cooling needed for the entire aircraft.

    Now that’s revealing, because if a radar needs remarkably more cooling, it must be pumping remarkably greater energy out through its antenna...

    It would need to - according to AI an X-band radar as found on a fighter jet (which is best for passing through air) would have a beam radius of at least 6km at 200km distance because of the diffraction limit.
    Not with a phased array source, which allows tricks like this.

    Dynamic Beam Control Method for Multiple Moving Targets in Microwave Wireless Power Transmission
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mop.70645

    (note the paper is from China)
    That's "just" amazing targeting (I think - I can only see the abstract). It'll still be 6km wide due to the uncertainty principle. It might be able to fry the enemy's radar but "giving Godzilla electoshock therapy" sounds unlikely.
    Fair comment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,209
    Barnesian said:

    Monkeys said:

    Barnesian said:

    "I doubt there is a single poster on PB who supports what Hamas did in October 23, there are plenty supporting / excusing what Israel has done since. Which has been just as horrific on a larger scale."

    What should Israel have done? I' don't think they have got it right, but I am interested to know what people think the response SHOULD have been.

    First of all, Israel should have prevented the Hamas attack,
    Mossad/IDF had the intelligence that Hamas was practicing, and Netanyahu ignored it. Perhaps he thought he had an understanding with Hamas as he'd helped finance them. An inquiry will hopefully find out.

    Given the attack happened, the response should have been surgical and intelligence driven. Plenty of evidence that Israel is good at that. Instead the response was brutal and indiscriminating without regard to the civilian population. I suspect that Israel thinks that one Israeli life is worth a thousand Palestinian lives. You see that in the prisoner exchanges.
    "The event shouldn't have happened," followed by a lot of supposition isn't a good answer to "what should the response to the event have been?"

    Hamas' response to the Israeli response should have been to release the hostages.
    My second paragraph was a good answer to "what should the response to the event have been?"
    Yes it was. But the actual response was to lay waste to Gaza and mete out a brutal collective punishment to its entire 2m population. It was not justified by any reasonable definition of proportionality. It was barbaric and wrong. That the Oct 7th attack which triggered it was an unspeakable atrocity doesn't change that.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,807
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Dreadful figures for Starmer. That's what happens when you forget you are a LABOUR PM and issues like a genocide in Gaza where 86,000 people were slaughtered matter.

    .................And arresting elderly vicars for writing 'Palestine Action' is taken as tacit approval for that genocide. Don't be fooled by Farage's facists. They are not the only voices that should have been heard

    No-one normal gives a flying fuck about Gaza mate.
    Thats actually saying nobody gives a fuck about International Law.

    Until it impacts on them
    Gaza is glorious and enthusiastic group masturbation for activist Lefties.

    They love it because it's where all their prejudices meet on class, colour, colonialism and capitalism and it's utterly irresistible to them.

    Knock yourself out, but no-one normal cares. It's entirely irrelevant to British politics and our actions are entirely irrelevant as well.
    Some people do care a lot. But what I have not noticed from those who do care is them noticing that according to Hamas's own figures 50,000 of those killed were Hamas fighters. Hamas has announced that it is paying pensions to the widows of those 50,000 fighters. Fighters get killed in wars. Killing fighters is war - not genocide. The remaining deaths are a tragedy of course.

    The UK has no useful role in the area.
    What is the source of your 50000 lie?

    Why are you lying?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,924
    Dan Neidle
    @DanNeidle

    What if Andy Burnham could raise £15bn – without a tax rise?

    There's one catch. He'd need to solve the UK’s biggest and least-discussed tax problem.

    Almost half of all small business corporation tax isn't being paid - and nobody knows why.

    Thread:

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/2072314341353787611
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,001

    UK.gov vows to cut consultancy spending, then hands up to £350M to consultancies
    Home Office deals with Deloitte and PA Consulting raise questions over Cabinet Office spending controls

    https://www.theregister.com/public-sector/2026/07/01/ukgov-vows-to-cut-consultancy-spending-then-hands-up-to-350m-to-consultancies/5264864

    You want to know the real answer to fixing this?

    Raise civil service pay restraints so they can hire 4-5 really good people at market rates in each department to do strategy and problem solving in each department.

    Then, they won't have to spend hundreds of millions on consultants.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,034
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labour, the party of the working-classes.

    "@YouGov

    Support for Labour now *rises* with household income, while Reform UK's is strongest among poorer households

    Household income: £70k or above
    Lab: 22%
    Con: 20%
    Ref: 18%
    LD: 17%
    Grn: 17%
    Rst: 2%

    Household income: Below £20k
    Ref: 30%
    Grn: 17%
    Con: 15%
    Lab: 15%
    LD: 11%
    Rst: 5%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/55084-how-would-britain-vote-two-years-since-the-2024-election "

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/2072268794605486473

    Household income below £20k won't involve a great deal of working.
    Reform. The party of benefit claimants.
    If that’s the case PB can happily look down on benefits claimants and not worry its collective consncience

    Benefits claimants are only worthy if the middle,classes look on them paternally
    Slashing benefits is only mentioned several times an hour every single day as the solution to everything.
    Only if those benefits are pensions
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,034
    Tuchel out
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