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Wes Streeting could be about to do Andy Burnham a huge favour – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,196
edited 7:28AM in General
Wes Streeting could be about to do Andy Burnham a huge favour – politicalbetting.com

By wielding the dagger it would be good optics for Andy Burnham, if he wins the by-election tomorrow, for somebody else to wield the dagger and also avoid looking him acting with unseemly haste.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,331
    edited 7:35AM
    Streeting still needs his 81 signatures though.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,907
    It is not really undue haste. The entire purpose of Burnham returning to Parliament is to challenge for the leadership and change course.

    We have surely had enough of Saint Augustine style politicians. God give me change, but not yet.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,929
    I wonder if there will be a contest. The 'mo' behind Burnham if he thumps Reform in Makerfield will be huge. There'll be a strong temptation to just go with it and annoint him.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,058
    edited 7:37AM
    You want someone else to wield the dagger so that Burnham can talk about how he won what should really have been a very safe Reform seat and so how he's the only option to see them off.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,996
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    Reading the account of the pair in the Yacht I suspect it was all a bit overblown.

    They dont deny that the Russian Ship followed Global procedures with Horn signals, repeated them twice and tried to contact them on radio, when that failed they fired shots IN TO THE AIR to warn them!

    Had they been smashed in to by the Russian ship, even if their fault can you imagine the outcry!
    That's not what they say.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/16/russian-frigate-fires-warning-shots-at-british-yacht-in-channel-reports
    ..She also told BBC Newsnight: “They gave out five blasts on their horn, which means ‘have you seen us?’

    “We immediately turned two degrees to port so they could see we made a deliberate change of course, which meant we had seen them.

    “A minute or so later, they gave another five blasts on their horn followed by four to five small arms fire, which wasn’t aimed at us, it was warning fire which went up in the air.”

    The couple took issue with the Russian version of events.

    Jane added: “They didn’t send up any flares, they didn’t try to radio us, they didn’t look to us like they were adrift, we were definitely not on a collision course. We were going to miss them. It just wasn’t an incident until the gunfire started.”..


    They also say they were no closer than 450m, and that the Russian ship had AIS turned off.
    It's really hard to play "You Are the Ref" without knowing the relative position of both vessels but I don't believe their no VHF hail story for one second. On the whole, I'd trust the seamanship of a Krivak's crew (or any Navy) over Sid and Doris Bonkers. If the Russians really had wanted to shit them up, they'd have just let the collision happen. I also think the Krivak's commander was a bit windy about getting USS Coled.
    I've no idea whose account is more accurate.
    But as the Russians could give Trump a run for his money in an international version of The Unbelievable Truth, I'm not predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    The suggestion that the Russian warship was drifting without power in one of the busiest shiplanes in the world, where it has no pressing reason (other than mischief) to be, doesn't say much about their 'seamanship'.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,816
    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,371
    kinabalu said:

    I wonder if there will be a contest. The 'mo' behind Burnham if he thumps Reform in Makerfield will be huge. There'll be a strong temptation to just go with it and annoint him.

    I know people who know Joe Dancey. Will ask for some insider information. I know that Wes is widely seen as a Nice Guy. But surely if he had 81 he would have gone for it already. Then we're into what may have changed.

    Lets assume that Wes didn't have 81 names but is now being promised a loaned vote to trigger a contest. Inside the phoney war I get it, especially from the people who dislike Burnham. But if as widely expected Burnham comes to London with palm leaves and rose petals being strewn in his path by Labour MPs, then does this scenario change?

    Starmer is to be told in no uncertain terms that he cannot win, so why press ahead with a damaging and divisive contest. The same is true for Streeting. They need to get on with a change in power and get on with a summer of planning what the new government is going to do. They will need to launch it at conference and have a blizzard of bills through the autumn, so any delay just throws that timetable out and makes the job harder.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,996
    edited 7:39AM
    Pro_Rata said:

    Streeting still needs his 81 signatures though.

    I'm sure Andy can lend him a few if need be.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,058

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,963
    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Streeting still needs his 81 signatures though.

    I'm sure Andy can lend him a few if need be.
    Sounds very Cleverly.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,003

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    What would be the timescale for a mayoral election? Presumably asap from a Lab pov to take advantage of a rapidly withering Burnham honeymoon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,816
    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,963

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    I trust you take steps to prevent Lancastrianisation occurring?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,569
    I had a dream a couple of nights ago in which Burnham won the by-election with a vote share in excess of 60%.

    I do not suggest using this as the basis for a betting strategy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,816
    New: Starmer starts rolling the pitch with his main argument against an immediate leadership contest - saying Burnham should help with the mayoral byelection.

    He tells me: "We're immediately tipped into a Manchester mayoral contest by-election, one of the biggest by-elections that we've ever fought, because of the scale of it.

    "And it's really important to my mind that the whole of the Labour Party and Labour movement focuses on that, which is the next most immediate task.

    "I don't think there should be a challenge. I think history, particularly the last government, shows that that isn't a successful way for a government to behave. But if there is a challenge, then I intend to fight.

    "I'm not going to walk away from that, and I've been clear and consistent about that."


    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2067148730118074847
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,569

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    Eugh, people claiming to own an "apartment" in this country will be first up against the wall come my revolution.
    I blame the private schooling.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 8,008
    Per BBC, Starmer has said that if Burnham wins then the whole of the party has to immediately focus on the Manchester Mayoral by-election which will happen straight away - election date expected to be by 6 August at the latest.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,963

    New: Starmer starts rolling the pitch with his main argument against an immediate leadership contest - saying Burnham should help with the mayoral byelection.

    He tells me: "We're immediately tipped into a Manchester mayoral contest by-election, one of the biggest by-elections that we've ever fought, because of the scale of it.

    "And it's really important to my mind that the whole of the Labour Party and Labour movement focuses on that, which is the next most immediate task.

    "I don't think there should be a challenge. I think history, particularly the last government, shows that that isn't a successful way for a government to behave. But if there is a challenge, then I intend to fight.

    "I'm not going to walk away from that, and I've been clear and consistent about that."


    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2067148730118074847

    That's a level of transparency so profound it's akin to invisibility.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,996

    It is not really undue haste. The entire purpose of Burnham returning to Parliament is to challenge for the leadership and change course.

    We have surely had enough of Saint Augustine style politicians. God give me change, but not yet.

    You can be sure that if Starmer did try to stay on, his camp would be calling Burnham disloyal. And it might even persuade a few people.

    Streeting is rolling the pitch for Burnham. It shouldn't make a huge difference, but it would be of some help to the image of new PM (assuming it's Burnham) not to have his opponents being able to label him Macbeth.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,497
    edited 7:49AM

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    What would be the timescale for a mayoral election? Presumably asap from a Lab pov to take advantage of a rapidly withering Burnham honeymoon.
    According to the BBC 30th July has been identified. A time when a few million Mancunians will be off getting a tan with their school age children and the Reform voting pensioners are still around.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lyp8k03gdo


    I think the issue raises interesting tactical matters. For example, if a Labour leadership contest is going on at then same time, how much would a Reform win/Labour win in Manchester affect judgments about Burnham.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,497
    Pro_Rata said:

    Streeting still needs his 81 signatures though.

    There are plenty of pace makers running at Ascot this week. Occasionally my customary losses can be slightly ameliorated by one of the winning.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,497
    Fpt

    O tempora! O mores! A short time line:

    1920: Qualification in Greek ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    1960: Qualification in Latin ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    2026: Government considers making qualification in English Language a requirement for student loans.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jun/17/students-pass-gcse-english-university-loans-proposals
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    Eugh, people claiming to own an "apartment" in this country will be first up against the wall come my revolution.
    I blame the private schooling.
    Too right. A chap should have a place in town and an estate in the country.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,569

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    Eugh, people claiming to own an "apartment" in this country will be first up against the wall come my revolution.
    I blame the private schooling.
    Too right. A chap should have a place in town and an estate in the country.
    Which town, though? And which country, for that matter?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,569

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    Eugh, people claiming to own an "apartment" in this country will be first up against the wall come my revolution.
    I blame the private schooling.
    Too right. A chap should have a place in town and an estate in the country.
    A "city crash pad"?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,208

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    I trust you take steps to prevent Lancastrianisation occurring?
    Like being a Liverpool fan?
  • It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,682
    edited 8:00AM
    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:
    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 855

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    Eugh, people claiming to own an "apartment" in this country will be first up against the wall come my revolution.
    I blame the private schooling.
    Too right. A chap should have a place in town and an estate in the country.
    Years ago when Michael Heseline was a Secretary of State, he called a press briefing. It was in the middle of winter and the snow was turning to slush. One journalist was wearing green wellies. Heseltine looked at him and said: "Green wellies. I always have a pair in my place in the country. How clever of you to have them in your place in town, as well."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    Spending before campaign limits start?
  • Twitter is full of “Reform” accounts that are based in Nigeria.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,752

    I had a dream a couple of nights ago in which Burnham won the by-election with a vote share in excess of 60%.

    I do not suggest using this as the basis for a betting strategy.

    Well, I did have a bet on your dream with £3 or £4. At silly odds.

    Sometimes, they come true.
  • Full list of Labour MPs backing Wes Streeting for the leadership:

    Wesley Streeting MP
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    I think it’s clear he doesn’t have the numbers and never did have the numbers.

    As I’ve said, I’m sure he wants to stand but I think it’s going to be everyone hopping on the Burnham bus.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,049

    Twitter is full of “Reform” accounts that are based in Nigeria.

    Too many people envious of Kemi's success.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    algarkirk said:

    Fpt

    O tempora! O mores! A short time line:

    1920: Qualification in Greek ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    1960: Qualification in Latin ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    2026: Government considers making qualification in English Language a requirement for student loans.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jun/17/students-pass-gcse-english-university-loans-proposals

    Imperial College used to demand German for science students, at least up to the 1980s so several decades after Germany was *the* scientific powerhouse. Whether Sunil had to sprechen sie Deutsch...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,996

    It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.

    In an ideal world there isn't any.
    In a world where Starmer tries to cling on ?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,738
    edited 8:07AM
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,593

    algarkirk said:

    Fpt

    O tempora! O mores! A short time line:

    1920: Qualification in Greek ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    1960: Qualification in Latin ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    2026: Government considers making qualification in English Language a requirement for student loans.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jun/17/students-pass-gcse-english-university-loans-proposals

    Imperial College used to demand German for science students, at least up to the 1980s so several decades after Germany was *the* scientific powerhouse. Whether Sunil had to sprechen sie Deutsch...
    Do Oxford and Cambridge still demand a modern foreign language GCSE? That used to be the case in the 80s with a need for O level French or similar as part of the entry requirement.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,376
    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,542

    Twitter is full of “Reform” accounts that are based in Nigeria.

    Mine isn’t.
  • Nigelb said:

    It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.

    In an ideal world there isn't any.
    In a world where Starmer tries to cling on ?
    I just cannot see Starmer actually clinging on.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    nico67 said:

    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.

    Probably. There are already signs the Burnham balloon is slowly deflating even if it has not burst.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,381
    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
    Potential there for a remake of the film "Clueless"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,371
    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
    Badenoch is desperate to maintain the illusion that the Tories are still relevant, and agreeing to become the minority partner in a coalition defeats that. So she has directed her people to say no. Which makes total sense from a party perspective but creates real problems getting councils running...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,319
    Sky reporter just now

    Labour mp who is really quite happy to have this put out there:

    'Good to see the PM wants Andy to have a big role in government

    His own job might me a good place to start'

    LOL

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,376

    nico67 said:

    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.

    Probably. There are already signs the Burnham balloon is slowly deflating even if it has not burst.
    I expect Team Starmer are desperately searching for some unearthed skeletons in the Burnham closet . I would have thought if there was anything interesting it would have been found already but you never know .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,049
    Scott_xP said:

    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer says he wants Andy Burnham to have a “big role in Government” if he wins the Makerfield by-election

    @DPJHodges

    So does Andy Burnham...

    Starmer is going to recreate the Northern Department.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,752

    Scott_xP said:

    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer says he wants Andy Burnham to have a “big role in Government” if he wins the Makerfield by-election

    @DPJHodges

    So does Andy Burnham...

    Starmer is going to recreate the Northern Department.
    Maybe they could do a job swap?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,102
    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,738
    Morning all :)

    After yesterday's 50/1 boilover in the Queen Anne, most of the bookies willnow have their winter holidays sorted.

    On to day two and the quality falls off after a stellar opening day - I think the Ascot programme needs more balance and in truth (and I know it'll get me a one way trip to the Tower and not on the District Line), there's not really five days worth of quality - it should go back to four days and have the huge handicaps on a special Heath meeting on the Saturday.

    MY view and as always I'll be in a minority of one.

    Today's selections:

    Queen Mary: RUIZA (each way)

    Queen's Vase: POINT OF LAW

    Duke of Cambridge: CATALONIA DELCARPIO

    Prince of Wales: ALMAQAM
  • eekeek Posts: 34,058
    edited 8:25AM

    Scott_xP said:

    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer says he wants Andy Burnham to have a “big role in Government” if he wins the Makerfield by-election

    @DPJHodges

    So does Andy Burnham...

    Starmer is going to recreate the Northern Department.
    Maybe they could do a job swap?
    SKS as Labour candidate is one way of guaranteeing that Labour lose the Manchester Mayoral election.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,569
    nico67 said:

    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.

    The story of the Czar's horse springs to mind.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,381

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    That's after Burnham is elected.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,376

    nico67 said:

    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.

    The story of the Czar's horse springs to mind.
    You’ll have to enlighten me ! I’m intrigued .
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 592

    It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.

    Let no-one accuse the Labour party of being undemocratic or misogyny as yet another male leads the party - the eye liner doesn't count!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,072
    Streeting if he launches a leadership contest would certainly help Burnham assuming he wins the by election tomorrow and is eligible to run. As Burnham has said he will join a leadership challenge but not directly that he would challenge Starmer. Starmer has also made clear he would contest a leadership contest and it is different to the situation Brady was in as under Tory rules now a simple VONC can remove a leader but under Labour leadership rules a full leadership challenge and election is needed (indeed before the rules were changed under Hague even Thatcher contested the first round of the 1990 leadership election). Corbyn of course survived a 2016 leadership contest against Owen Smith even though most Labour MPs nominated his opponent. Starmer would also beat Streeting most likely and would hope to get some of his preferences against more leftwing Burnham
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,208
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    After yesterday's 50/1 boilover in the Queen Anne, most of the bookies willnow have their winter holidays sorted.

    On to day two and the quality falls off after a stellar opening day - I think the Ascot programme needs more balance and in truth (and I know it'll get me a one way trip to the Tower and not on the District Line), there's not really five days worth of quality - it should go back to four days and have the huge handicaps on a special Heath meeting on the Saturday.

    MY view and as always I'll be in a minority of one.

    Today's selections:

    Queen Mary: RUIZA (each way)

    Queen's Vase: POINT OF LAW

    Duke of Cambridge: CATALONIA DELCARPIO

    Prince of Wales: ALMAQAM

    I had the kudos of a 25th finish yesterday, I thought they stopped counting long before that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,091
    HYUFD said:

    Streeting if he launches a leadership contest would certainly help Burnham assuming he wins the by election tomorrow and is eligible to run. As Burnham has said he will join a leadership challenge but not directly that he would challenge Starmer. Starmer has also made clear he would contest a leadership contest and it is different to the situation Brady was in as under Tory rules now a simple VONC can remove a leader but under Labour leadership rules a full leadership challenge and election is needed (indeed before the rules were changed under Hague even Thatcher contested the first round of the 1990 leadership election). Corbyn of course survived a 2016 leadership contest against Owen Smith even though most Labour MPs nominated his opponent. Starmer would also beat Streeting most likely and would hope to get some of his preferences against more leftwing Burnham

    If Streeting had the nominations wouldn't he have used them before Burnham was eligible? Suspect its all talk from him.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,208
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.

    Probably. There are already signs the Burnham balloon is slowly deflating even if it has not burst.
    I expect Team Starmer are desperately searching for some unearthed skeletons in the Burnham closet . I would have thought if there was anything interesting it would have been found already but you never know .
    Burnham's bubble is going to be looking saggier than his manboobs before the summer's out.
    I wish it wasn't the case but portents are he's more spineless and easily swayed than even Starmer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,072
    edited 8:41AM

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    Inflation at 2.8% still above the Bank of England's 2% target
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,996

    Nigelb said:

    It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.

    In an ideal world there isn't any.
    In a world where Starmer tries to cling on ?
    I just cannot see Starmer actually clinging on.
    I can see him trying.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,208
    HYUFD said:

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    Inflation at 2.8% still above the Bank of England's 2% target
    Still not bad given the US's international adventures, whether that comes through later remains to be seen.
    Next threat to the world economy, US IPOs triggering a market collapse.
    I wonder what they've lined up after that?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,996

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    There's also this, which might even be true ?
    (Treat with large pinch of salt.)

    https://x.com/NewSamawal/status/2066527500201492710
    The US secretly approved a financial and maritime arrangement between Qatar and Iran, under which billions of dollars were paid to Tehran in exchange for free passage for Qatari tankers and ships through the Strait of Hormuz, three diplomatic officials now confirm.

    This was a deliberate and conscious course of action by the US administration, which allowed its navy to turn a blind eye to the arrangement, in complete contradiction of its declared policy. The move was intended to ease the crisis in global energy markets and curb rising oil prices.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,049
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2067147705063764360

    Reform’s lead drops slightly to 7 this week. While the Greens drop to 9% - their lowest this year.

    ➡️ REF UK 29 (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% (+1)
    🌍 GREEN 9% (-2)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972

    Twitter is full of “Reform” accounts that are based in Nigeria.

    Kemi's relatives?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    Eugh, people claiming to own an "apartment" in this country will be first up against the wall come my revolution.
    I blame the private schooling.
    Too right. A chap should have a place in town and an estate in the country.
    A "city crash pad"?
    That’s for the servants to the servants hall. Or Americans.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972
    THIRTY-SIX HOURS TO SAVE THE LABOUR PARTY ANDY BURNHAM'S CAREER!!!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    After yesterday's 50/1 boilover in the Queen Anne, most of the bookies willnow have their winter holidays sorted.

    On to day two and the quality falls off after a stellar opening day - I think the Ascot programme needs more balance and in truth (and I know it'll get me a one way trip to the Tower and not on the District Line), there's not really five days worth of quality - it should go back to four days and have the huge handicaps on a special Heath meeting on the Saturday.

    MY view and as always I'll be in a minority of one.

    Today's selections:

    Queen Mary: RUIZA (each way)

    Queen's Vase: POINT OF LAW

    Duke of Cambridge: CATALONIA DELCARPIO

    Prince of Wales: ALMAQAM

    Ruiva is the oldest in the race, which is always handy with 2-year-olds, and trained in the good ol' US of A. The others seem plausible too. Good luck.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    Reading the account of the pair in the Yacht I suspect it was all a bit overblown.

    They dont deny that the Russian Ship followed Global procedures with Horn signals, repeated them twice and tried to contact them on radio, when that failed they fired shots IN TO THE AIR to warn them!

    Had they been smashed in to by the Russian ship, even if their fault can you imagine the outcry!
    That's not what they say.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/16/russian-frigate-fires-warning-shots-at-british-yacht-in-channel-reports
    ..She also told BBC Newsnight: “They gave out five blasts on their horn, which means ‘have you seen us?’

    “We immediately turned two degrees to port so they could see we made a deliberate change of course, which meant we had seen them.

    “A minute or so later, they gave another five blasts on their horn followed by four to five small arms fire, which wasn’t aimed at us, it was warning fire which went up in the air.”

    The couple took issue with the Russian version of events.

    Jane added: “They didn’t send up any flares, they didn’t try to radio us, they didn’t look to us like they were adrift, we were definitely not on a collision course. We were going to miss them. It just wasn’t an incident until the gunfire started.”..


    They also say they were no closer than 450m, and that the Russian ship had AIS turned off.
    It's really hard to play "You Are the Ref" without knowing the relative position of both vessels but I don't believe their no VHF hail story for one second. On the whole, I'd trust the seamanship of a Krivak's crew (or any Navy) over Sid and Doris Bonkers. If the Russians really had wanted to shit them up, they'd have just let the collision happen. I also think the Krivak's commander was a bit windy about getting USS Coled.
    I've no idea whose account is more accurate.
    But as the Russians could give Trump a run for his money in an international version of The Unbelievable Truth, I'm not predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    The suggestion that the Russian warship was drifting without power in one of the busiest shiplanes in the world, where it has no pressing reason (other than mischief) to be, doesn't say much about their 'seamanship'.
    122 years ago this incident:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank_incident

    Imperial Russian Navy mistook civilian British fishing trawlers from Kingston upon Hull in the Dogger Bank area of the North Sea for Imperial Japanese Navy torpedo boats[1] and fired on them, also firing on each other in the chaos of the melée.[2]

    Two British fishermen died, six more were injured, one fishing vessel was sunk, and five more boats were damaged.[3] On the Russian side, one sailor and a Russian Orthodox priest aboard the cruiser Aurora were killed by friendly fire.[3] The incident almost led to war between the United Kingdom and the Russian Empire.[4] An international commission of inquiry based on the Hague Convention was set up and Russia voluntarily paid compensation of £66,000 to the fishermen.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,335
    edited 8:57AM
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    It's been a similar story in Birmingham, where the council now has a Lib Dem leader despite the Lib Dems achieving only the fifth highest number of seats on the council. Nobody will work with Reform, Labour won't work with anyone else, and the Conservatives are apparently banned by their leadership from working with anybody.

    One of the (now ex-) Reform councillors actually voted for the Lib Dem candidate for leader rather than Reform's own candidate, saying that the council should be led by someone with experience. She was immediately suspended by her party.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,871
    Oh, is Moscow oil refinery still experiencing the wrong sort of fire?

    https://x.com/frontlinekit/status/2067135998857810415

    Happy England entering the World Cup day!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,151

    algarkirk said:

    Fpt

    O tempora! O mores! A short time line:

    1920: Qualification in Greek ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    1960: Qualification in Latin ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    2026: Government considers making qualification in English Language a requirement for student loans.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jun/17/students-pass-gcse-english-university-loans-proposals

    Imperial College used to demand German for science students, at least up to the 1980s so several decades after Germany was *the* scientific powerhouse. Whether Sunil had to sprechen sie Deutsch...
    Do Oxford and Cambridge still demand a modern foreign language GCSE? That used to be the case in the 80s with a need for O level French or similar as part of the entry requirement.
    Oxford didn't when I got an offer in late 90s. I don't think so, anyway - I had GCSE French, but don't remember anything about it being a requirement.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,542
    Nigelb said:

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    There's also this, which might even be true ?
    (Treat with large pinch of salt.)

    https://x.com/NewSamawal/status/2066527500201492710
    The US secretly approved a financial and maritime arrangement between Qatar and Iran, under which billions of dollars were paid to Tehran in exchange for free passage for Qatari tankers and ships through the Strait of Hormuz, three diplomatic officials now confirm.

    This was a deliberate and conscious course of action by the US administration, which allowed its navy to turn a blind eye to the arrangement, in complete contradiction of its declared policy. The move was intended to ease the crisis in global energy markets and curb rising oil prices.
    It’s been reported by some credible sources. It’s Trump. He’s transactional. I believe it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,816

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    Spending before campaign limits start?
    Oh you cynic.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,341

    eek said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    I thought you lived in Sheffield - how come you get a vote in Manchester?
    I work in Manchester and still own an apartment in Manchester.
    Eugh, people claiming to own an "apartment" in this country will be first up against the wall come my revolution.
    I blame the private schooling.
    Is it the owning or the use of the word for apartment, rather than flat? Could have been worse - he could have said condo.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,534
    Pro_Rata said:

    Streeting still needs his 81 signatures though.

    I am sure a few of Burnham's pal's will lend him their vote at that point
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,816
    Nigelb said:

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    There's also this, which might even be true ?
    (Treat with large pinch of salt.)

    https://x.com/NewSamawal/status/2066527500201492710
    The US secretly approved a financial and maritime arrangement between Qatar and Iran, under which billions of dollars were paid to Tehran in exchange for free passage for Qatari tankers and ships through the Strait of Hormuz, three diplomatic officials now confirm.

    This was a deliberate and conscious course of action by the US administration, which allowed its navy to turn a blind eye to the arrangement, in complete contradiction of its declared policy. The move was intended to ease the crisis in global energy markets and curb rising oil prices.
    Oh it is true, Trump is showing how he went bankrupt running a casino.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515
    Lol

  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,738

    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
    Badenoch is desperate to maintain the illusion that the Tories are still relevant, and agreeing to become the minority partner in a coalition defeats that. So she has directed her people to say no. Which makes total sense from a party perspective but creates real problems getting councils running...
    It's part of the positioning of her party and it's an interesting move which will likely meet the same fate as equidistance for the Alliance and LDs in 2010.

    If the line is "we do deals with no one", fine but there will inevitably come a point when she will face the worst of all worlds (it always happens) and her 70 MPs after the next GE (hypothetically) will be the difference between a Labour-led minority and a Reform-led minority and her "no deals" will run out of road as she will be accused of perpetuating instability and chaos.

    I presume the thinking within the Conservatives is it may force other parties to side with Reform and open up a gap - perhaps but Reform aren't playing the game that well.

    If both the parties of "the right" are going to play their silly games, the other side will end up taking advantage.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,871
    algarkirk said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    What would be the timescale for a mayoral election? Presumably asap from a Lab pov to take advantage of a rapidly withering Burnham honeymoon.
    According to the BBC 30th July has been identified. A time when a few million Mancunians will be off getting a tan with their school age children and the Reform voting pensioners are still around.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lyp8k03gdo


    I think the issue raises interesting tactical matters. For example, if a Labour leadership contest is going on at then same time, how much would a Reform win/Labour win in Manchester affect judgments about Burnham.

    Surely they’re not that silly, as to try and hold a by-election in the middle of the school summer holidays?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,963

    Nigelb said:

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    There's also this, which might even be true ?
    (Treat with large pinch of salt.)

    https://x.com/NewSamawal/status/2066527500201492710
    The US secretly approved a financial and maritime arrangement between Qatar and Iran, under which billions of dollars were paid to Tehran in exchange for free passage for Qatari tankers and ships through the Strait of Hormuz, three diplomatic officials now confirm.

    This was a deliberate and conscious course of action by the US administration, which allowed its navy to turn a blind eye to the arrangement, in complete contradiction of its declared policy. The move was intended to ease the crisis in global energy markets and curb rising oil prices.
    Oh it is true, Trump is showing how he went bankrupt running a casino.
    China, regarding the Malacca Strait, will be closely looking at the concept if Trump's idiotic action sees a return to tolls through narrow shipping lanes. Also, potentially, the Houthis, the Danes, and us alongside the French for the Channel.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,335
    edited 9:10AM

    Nigelb said:

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    There's also this, which might even be true ?
    (Treat with large pinch of salt.)

    https://x.com/NewSamawal/status/2066527500201492710
    The US secretly approved a financial and maritime arrangement between Qatar and Iran, under which billions of dollars were paid to Tehran in exchange for free passage for Qatari tankers and ships through the Strait of Hormuz, three diplomatic officials now confirm.

    This was a deliberate and conscious course of action by the US administration, which allowed its navy to turn a blind eye to the arrangement, in complete contradiction of its declared policy. The move was intended to ease the crisis in global energy markets and curb rising oil prices.
    Oh it is true, Trump is showing how he went bankrupt running a casino.
    China, regarding the Malacca Strait, will be closely looking at the concept if Trump's idiotic action sees a return to tolls through narrow shipping lanes. Also, potentially, the Houthis, the Danes, and us alongside the French for the Channel.
    You can't fault the Houthis for their ambition!

    Edit: Oh, I see.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,341

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    The whole thing is interesting. We have had lots of predictions of economic gloom and including from people who ought to know or be well informed, including some PBers. And yes fuel has been expensive and there must be knock on effects to come. Yet at the moment, assuming the deal really is the opening of the Straights, you have to wonder if there has been enough flexibility in the systems to handle this.

    Or is it all 'baked in' and coming down the line?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,058
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    As somebody who has a vote in the Greater Manchester mayoral election I have noticed a lot of Labour adverts about this in the last few days on my social media accounts.

    What would be the timescale for a mayoral election? Presumably asap from a Lab pov to take advantage of a rapidly withering Burnham honeymoon.
    According to the BBC 30th July has been identified. A time when a few million Mancunians will be off getting a tan with their school age children and the Reform voting pensioners are still around.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lyp8k03gdo


    I think the issue raises interesting tactical matters. For example, if a Labour leadership contest is going on at then same time, how much would a Reform win/Labour win in Manchester affect judgments about Burnham.

    Surely they’re not that silly, as to try and hold a by-election in the middle of the school summer holidays?
    SKS is involved - so of course they will.

    Now it should be September but that allows another month of shadow campaigning and Labour doesn't have the money a desperate Reform will have.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,003
    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,682

    It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.

    I'm intrigued by how far electoral Reform could go without the need for a Referendum etc. There were some things in the 2024 Labour Manifesto.

    The Elections Act 2022 brought in things which went beyond the letter of the 2019 Conservative Manifesto afaics in a number of respects, as well as specific manifesto pledges, so I think there is some scope - though I'm not sure how much.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515

    HYUFD said:

    Streeting if he launches a leadership contest would certainly help Burnham assuming he wins the by election tomorrow and is eligible to run. As Burnham has said he will join a leadership challenge but not directly that he would challenge Starmer. Starmer has also made clear he would contest a leadership contest and it is different to the situation Brady was in as under Tory rules now a simple VONC can remove a leader but under Labour leadership rules a full leadership challenge and election is needed (indeed before the rules were changed under Hague even Thatcher contested the first round of the 1990 leadership election). Corbyn of course survived a 2016 leadership contest against Owen Smith even though most Labour MPs nominated his opponent. Starmer would also beat Streeting most likely and would hope to get some of his preferences against more leftwing Burnham

    If Streeting had the nominations wouldn't he have used them before Burnham was eligible? Suspect its all talk from him.
    He's got himself into a difficult spot, and some of his recent communications could be seen my members as an attack on his own party. Streeting is sometimes too combative and he ought now to be looking to try and mend some bridges so he has a chance of the top job to which he clearly aspires.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515
    MattW said:

    It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.

    I'm intrigued by how far electoral Reform could go without the need for a Referendum etc. There were some things in the 2024 Labour Manifesto.

    The Elections Act 2022 brought in things which went beyond the letter of the 2019 Conservative Manifesto afaics in a number of respects, as well as specific manifesto pledges, so I think there is some scope - though I'm not sure how much.
    The sensible first step would be to move to STV for local council elections, which could be done quickly; as you say, the Tories removed a preferential/transferable vote without a refendum; indeed I don't even recall a vote in parliament and wonder whether it was done by ministerial regulation?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,682
    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
    At present Kirklees has:

    Reform UK (29)
    Green (12)
    Conservative (9)
    Liberal Democrats (5)
    Independent (14)

    Place your bets !!!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,682
    edited 9:31AM
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    It seems to me that Labour’s best hope is a coronation of Burnham who starts a new agenda in the maximum time available.

    I cannot see the advantage to a leadership contest in this case.

    I'm intrigued by how far electoral Reform could go without the need for a Referendum etc. There were some things in the 2024 Labour Manifesto.

    The Elections Act 2022 brought in things which went beyond the letter of the 2019 Conservative Manifesto afaics in a number of respects, as well as specific manifesto pledges, so I think there is some scope - though I'm not sure how much.
    The sensible first step would be to move to STV for local council elections, which could be done quickly; as you say, the Tories removed a preferential/transferable vote without a refendum; indeed I don't even recall a vote in parliament and wonder whether it was done by ministerial regulation?
    I don't know - but it was during the COVID period, which could both be a justification for less process or an opportunity for shenanigans.

    I make no judgements in this post (cough ! ).
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,907

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    The other thing with these pictures is that it is one shot. A minute later he could have been deep in conversation with several people. They used to do this with Johnson and the EU members.
    Yes, there's plenty of reasons to criticise Trump, a photo like this is not one of them.

    Can do that with anyone.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,907
    The irony with Starmer saying that Labour should prioritise the Manchester Mayoral election before any leadership challenge is that the best chance Labour has of holding Manchester is surely to see him gone from Downing Street and a popular individual linked to Manchester leading Labour and in their 'honeymoon'.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,729

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,992
    edited 9:41AM
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    Reading the account of the pair in the Yacht I suspect it was all a bit overblown.

    They dont deny that the Russian Ship followed Global procedures with Horn signals, repeated them twice and tried to contact them on radio, when that failed they fired shots IN TO THE AIR to warn them!

    Had they been smashed in to by the Russian ship, even if their fault can you imagine the outcry!
    That's not what they say.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/16/russian-frigate-fires-warning-shots-at-british-yacht-in-channel-reports
    ..She also told BBC Newsnight: “They gave out five blasts on their horn, which means ‘have you seen us?’

    “We immediately turned two degrees to port so they could see we made a deliberate change of course, which meant we had seen them.

    “A minute or so later, they gave another five blasts on their horn followed by four to five small arms fire, which wasn’t aimed at us, it was warning fire which went up in the air.”

    The couple took issue with the Russian version of events.

    Jane added: “They didn’t send up any flares, they didn’t try to radio us, they didn’t look to us like they were adrift, we were definitely not on a collision course. We were going to miss them. It just wasn’t an incident until the gunfire started.”..


    They also say they were no closer than 450m, and that the Russian ship had AIS turned off.
    It's really hard to play "You Are the Ref" without knowing the relative position of both vessels but I don't believe their no VHF hail story for one second. On the whole, I'd trust the seamanship of a Krivak's crew (or any Navy) over Sid and Doris Bonkers. If the Russians really had wanted to shit them up, they'd have just let the collision happen. I also think the Krivak's commander was a bit windy about getting USS Coled.
    I've no idea whose account is more accurate.
    But as the Russians could give Trump a run for his money in an international version of The Unbelievable Truth, I'm not predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    The suggestion that the Russian warship was drifting without power in one of the busiest shiplanes in the world, where it has no pressing reason (other than mischief) to be, doesn't say much about their 'seamanship'.
    5 blasts on the horn means "I am unclear of your intentions" not "have you seen us?" and a 2° course change is insignificant.

    On the other hand a boat under sail has priority over one under motor power, so it would be the frigate's responsibility to change course.

    The exception would be if the motor vessel had lost power and was drifting, in which case it should be displaying the appropriate lights and markers and issued a Mayday.
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