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  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,974
    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
  • Good afternoon from the Oval where big man James Rew is proving to be a good keeper
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515

    On Makerfield, the bookies' odds have shifted quite significantly towards Labour in the last 48 hours, with Reform now quite a long shot. I've no idea what's caused this shift. But it may point to a comfortable win for Burnham, with quite a large majority.

    As some of us bravely predicted right from the outset, despite derision from PB’s now banned notorious reprobate.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515
    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
    Badenoch has The Hague/Howard/IDS slot, and the Tories won’t get a proper hearing until they move on to the next generation, untainted by previous failures (à la Cameron), and convincingly recant their ideological anti-Europeanism.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,990
    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,209

    Good afternoon from the Oval where big man James Rew is proving to be a good keeper

    Going to be a long hot afternoon for England in the field.
    5/1 the draw seems generous at the Oval this season particularly with neither team fielding a frontline spinner.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,923
    edited 1:30PM
    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    What, are Rishi and Coutinho shagging? Are they going at it like a pile-driver? Has he found a little stool (to stand on, you filthy-minded perves)? Are they up a tree, kay ay ess ess ey en gee? Are they doing rudies? Is he sheathing the pink sword? ARE THEY SHARING A SPECIAL HUG?

    (narrator: viewcode is asking if they have had sex)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    edited 1:32PM

    IanB2 said:

    Speaking of Kemi Badenoch, we should not forget the two Scottish by-elections tomorrow. Kemi's fate might be determined by the Conservative showing in Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn's old seat, vacated after his election to Holyrood). Conservatives will expect a close second at least, and will be hoping for a win.

    Markets seem to have gone a bit cold on the Tory chances in closing days?
    Times Wireless caller said Aberdeen drowning in Tory leaflets; SNP only in last few days.
    Maybe the SNP were waiting for Murrell's shopping list to drop out of the headlines; maybe the party is skint.

    ETA otoh having daily calls from canvassers must put some voters off.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,990

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
    He truly is a nasty piece of shit with that comment. If he hadn’t bored us to tears about his love of a crap midlands football team I would assume he was a pissed up Al Campbell.

    Making up shit like that though to score political points is fucking low.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,058
    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
    Badenoch has The Hague/Howard/IDS slot, and the Tories won’t get a proper hearing until they move on to the next generation, untainted by previous failures (à la Cameron), and convincingly recant their ideological anti-Europeanism.
    I'm not so sure - I think the issue is that previously 50% of Tory voters were more never Labour Voters and 50% of Labour voters never Tory voters.

    And those never Tory / never Labour who can ignore (or like) a little racism have switched to Reform because they now have a chance of winning.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,923
    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo?....
    Hah! In-your-endo, fnarr fnarr

    (narrator: viewcode is a grown adult with a mortgage. Honest)

  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,619
    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jun/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-contest-andy-burnham-makerfield-byelection-wes-streeting-latest-news-updates

    Tories defend Vickers laughing at homophobic jokes in TV interview, saying he was just 'trying to be polite'

    Politician fails to maintain a furious po-faced humourlessness at all times? The end of times are surely on us.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,209
    Dopermean said:

    Good afternoon from the Oval where big man James Rew is proving to be a good keeper

    Going to be a long hot afternoon for England in the field.
    5/1 the draw seems generous at the Oval this season particularly with neither team fielding a frontline spinner.
    I'm claiming Nicholls, he went just as I placed my stake...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jun/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-contest-andy-burnham-makerfield-byelection-wes-streeting-latest-news-updates

    Tories defend Vickers laughing at homophobic jokes in TV interview, saying he was just 'trying to be polite'

    Politician fails to maintain a furious po-faced humourlessness at all times? The end of times are surely on us.
    This came up at Deputy PMQs today. No Hansard link yet.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,923
    edited 1:38PM
    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Streeting still needs his 81 signatures though.

    I'm sure Andy can lend him a few if need be.
    How many times do people have to do that before they realise its a stupid idea?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jun/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-contest-andy-burnham-makerfield-byelection-wes-streeting-latest-news-updates

    Tories defend Vickers laughing at homophobic jokes in TV interview, saying he was just 'trying to be polite'

    Politician fails to maintain a furious po-faced humourlessness at all times? The end of times are surely on us.
    Apparently he had been making hay with the Russian fire bomber innuendo. I wonder who he used to post as on PB?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,856
    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jun/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-contest-andy-burnham-makerfield-byelection-wes-streeting-latest-news-updates

    Tories defend Vickers laughing at homophobic jokes in TV interview, saying he was just 'trying to be polite'

    Politician fails to maintain a furious po-faced humourlessness at all times? The end of times are surely on us.
    Have you seen the clip? Pretty poor behaviour IMHO

    https://x.com/TheBottom_Lines/status/2066760660273279040
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,817
    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    Calm down, Claire Coutinho was Sunak's SPAD when he was at the Treasury, he thought about appointing her Chancellor.

    The speculation has not gone unnoticed by Labour, with some frontbenchers fearing that Sunak will replace Hunt with Claire Coutinho, the net-zero secretary and one of his closest allies, to stop Rachel Reeves from claiming the mantle of Britain’s first female chancellor.

    https://www.thetimes.com/money/tax/article/is-jeremy-hunt-the-right-person-to-help-sell-change-gg9mp3kxd

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/12/08/the-next-chancellor/

    There's plenty of articles showing he's a big fan of hers

    https://www.politico.eu/article/claire-coutinho-the-uks-chancellor-in-the-wings/

    Here's another PB thread

    I think the best bet is on former Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero Claire Coutinho who I backed with Ladbrokes today at 50/1. She’s a Sunak favourite as this article from March shows and it wouldn’t surprise me if Sunak made her Shadow Chancellor this week.

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/08/its-not-looking-good-for-suella-braverman/

    I cannot find the article at the moment but there was another piece which showed recently she was taking a lot of advice from Sunak.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
    He truly is a nasty piece of shit with that comment. If he hadn’t bored us to tears about his love of a crap midlands football team I would assume he was a pissed up Al Campbell.

    Making up shit like that though to score political points is fucking low.
    Is it OK for Vickers to promote the Starmer stuff?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972
    viewcode said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    What, are Rishi and Coutinho shagging? Are they going at it like a pile-driver? Has he found a little stool (to stand on, you filthy-minded perves)? Are they up a tree, kay ay ess ess ey en gee? Are they doing rudies? Is he sheathing the pink sword? ARE THEY SHARING A SPECIAL HUG?

    (narrator: viewcode is asking if they have had sex)
    Earth to viewcode: We know!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    After yesterday's 50/1 boilover in the Queen Anne, most of the bookies willnow have their winter holidays sorted.

    On to day two and the quality falls off after a stellar opening day - I think the Ascot programme needs more balance and in truth (and I know it'll get me a one way trip to the Tower and not on the District Line), there's not really five days worth of quality - it should go back to four days and have the huge handicaps on a special Heath meeting on the Saturday.

    MY view and as always I'll be in a minority of one.

    Today's selections:

    Queen Mary: RUIZA (each way)

    Queen's Vase: POINT OF LAW

    Duke of Cambridge: CATALONIA DELCARPIO

    Prince of Wales: ALMAQAM

    Stodge's e/w shot in the Queen Mary, Ruiva, came third to secure the place money. Onwards and upwards.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,896

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    After yesterday's 50/1 boilover in the Queen Anne, most of the bookies willnow have their winter holidays sorted.

    On to day two and the quality falls off after a stellar opening day - I think the Ascot programme needs more balance and in truth (and I know it'll get me a one way trip to the Tower and not on the District Line), there's not really five days worth of quality - it should go back to four days and have the huge handicaps on a special Heath meeting on the Saturday.

    MY view and as always I'll be in a minority of one.

    Today's selections:

    Queen Mary: RUIZA (each way)

    Queen's Vase: POINT OF LAW

    Duke of Cambridge: CATALONIA DELCARPIO

    Prince of Wales: ALMAQAM

    Stodge's e/w shot in the Queen Mary, Ruiva, came third to secure the place money. Onwards and upwards.
    My sister and brother-in-law were there yesterday. They had a fiver each way on the winner...
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,542
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
    He truly is a nasty piece of shit with that comment. If he hadn’t bored us to tears about his love of a crap midlands football team I would assume he was a pissed up Al Campbell.

    Making up shit like that though to score political points is fucking low.
    Fuck off are Birmingham City crap.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,990

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    Calm down, Claire Coutinho was Sunak's SPAD when he was at the Treasury, he thought about appointing her Chancellor.

    The speculation has not gone unnoticed by Labour, with some frontbenchers fearing that Sunak will replace Hunt with Claire Coutinho, the net-zero secretary and one of his closest allies, to stop Rachel Reeves from claiming the mantle of Britain’s first female chancellor.

    https://www.thetimes.com/money/tax/article/is-jeremy-hunt-the-right-person-to-help-sell-change-gg9mp3kxd

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/12/08/the-next-chancellor/

    There's plenty of articles showing he's a big fan of hers

    https://www.politico.eu/article/claire-coutinho-the-uks-chancellor-in-the-wings/

    Here's another PB thread

    I think the best bet is on former Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero Claire Coutinho who I backed with Ladbrokes today at 50/1. She’s a Sunak favourite as this article from March shows and it wouldn’t surprise me if Sunak made her Shadow Chancellor this week.

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/08/its-not-looking-good-for-suella-braverman/

    I cannot find the article at the moment but there was another piece which showed recently she was taking a lot of advice from Sunak.
    And you really think that’s what he was getting at?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,992

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
    He truly is a nasty piece of shit with that comment. If he hadn’t bored us to tears about his love of a crap midlands football team I would assume he was a pissed up Al Campbell.

    Making up shit like that though to score political points is fucking low.
    Is it OK for Vickers to promote the Starmer stuff?
    The stuff that came straight from Russia?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,990

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
    He truly is a nasty piece of shit with that comment. If he hadn’t bored us to tears about his love of a crap midlands football team I would assume he was a pissed up Al Campbell.

    Making up shit like that though to score political points is fucking low.
    Is it OK for Vickers to promote the Starmer stuff?
    No.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    Calm down, Claire Coutinho was Sunak's SPAD when he was at the Treasury, he thought about appointing her Chancellor.

    The speculation has not gone unnoticed by Labour, with some frontbenchers fearing that Sunak will replace Hunt with Claire Coutinho, the net-zero secretary and one of his closest allies, to stop Rachel Reeves from claiming the mantle of Britain’s first female chancellor.

    https://www.thetimes.com/money/tax/article/is-jeremy-hunt-the-right-person-to-help-sell-change-gg9mp3kxd

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/12/08/the-next-chancellor/

    There's plenty of articles showing he's a big fan of hers

    https://www.politico.eu/article/claire-coutinho-the-uks-chancellor-in-the-wings/

    Here's another PB thread

    I think the best bet is on former Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero Claire Coutinho who I backed with Ladbrokes today at 50/1. She’s a Sunak favourite as this article from March shows and it wouldn’t surprise me if Sunak made her Shadow Chancellor this week.

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/08/its-not-looking-good-for-suella-braverman/

    I cannot find the article at the moment but there was another piece which showed recently she was taking a lot of advice from Sunak.
    The Energy Secretary stuff can't be true. Claire Courtinho is very, very opposed to net zero. See PMQs today.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,817

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    Calm down, Claire Coutinho was Sunak's SPAD when he was at the Treasury, he thought about appointing her Chancellor.

    The speculation has not gone unnoticed by Labour, with some frontbenchers fearing that Sunak will replace Hunt with Claire Coutinho, the net-zero secretary and one of his closest allies, to stop Rachel Reeves from claiming the mantle of Britain’s first female chancellor.

    https://www.thetimes.com/money/tax/article/is-jeremy-hunt-the-right-person-to-help-sell-change-gg9mp3kxd

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/12/08/the-next-chancellor/

    There's plenty of articles showing he's a big fan of hers

    https://www.politico.eu/article/claire-coutinho-the-uks-chancellor-in-the-wings/

    Here's another PB thread

    I think the best bet is on former Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero Claire Coutinho who I backed with Ladbrokes today at 50/1. She’s a Sunak favourite as this article from March shows and it wouldn’t surprise me if Sunak made her Shadow Chancellor this week.

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/08/its-not-looking-good-for-suella-braverman/

    I cannot find the article at the moment but there was another piece which showed recently she was taking a lot of advice from Sunak.
    The Energy Secretary stuff can't be true. Claire Courtinho is very, very opposed to net zero. See PMQs today.
    She's got the same lack of credibility problem that Badenoch has.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,929

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    After yesterday's 50/1 boilover in the Queen Anne, most of the bookies willnow have their winter holidays sorted.

    On to day two and the quality falls off after a stellar opening day - I think the Ascot programme needs more balance and in truth (and I know it'll get me a one way trip to the Tower and not on the District Line), there's not really five days worth of quality - it should go back to four days and have the huge handicaps on a special Heath meeting on the Saturday.

    MY view and as always I'll be in a minority of one.

    Today's selections:

    Queen Mary: RUIZA (each way)

    Queen's Vase: POINT OF LAW

    Duke of Cambridge: CATALONIA DELCARPIO

    Prince of Wales: ALMAQAM

    Stodge's e/w shot in the Queen Mary, Ruiva, came third to secure the place money. Onwards and upwards.
    The french horse in the PoW for me. Daryz. 2nd fav at 3.3.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,381
    edited 1:55PM

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    Calm down, Claire Coutinho was Sunak's SPAD when he was at the Treasury, he thought about appointing her Chancellor.

    The speculation has not gone unnoticed by Labour, with some frontbenchers fearing that Sunak will replace Hunt with Claire Coutinho, the net-zero secretary and one of his closest allies, to stop Rachel Reeves from claiming the mantle of Britain’s first female chancellor.

    https://www.thetimes.com/money/tax/article/is-jeremy-hunt-the-right-person-to-help-sell-change-gg9mp3kxd

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/12/08/the-next-chancellor/

    There's plenty of articles showing he's a big fan of hers

    https://www.politico.eu/article/claire-coutinho-the-uks-chancellor-in-the-wings/

    Here's another PB thread

    I think the best bet is on former Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero Claire Coutinho who I backed with Ladbrokes today at 50/1. She’s a Sunak favourite as this article from March shows and it wouldn’t surprise me if Sunak made her Shadow Chancellor this week.

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/08/its-not-looking-good-for-suella-braverman/

    I cannot find the article at the moment but there was another piece which showed recently she was taking a lot of advice from Sunak.
    The Energy Secretary stuff can't be true. Claire Courtinho is very, very opposed to net zero. See PMQs today.
    Check Hansard .....

    Our contracts for difference scheme is a UK success story, having contracted more than 30 GW of capacity, including 20 GW of offshore wind, since 2014. AR5 delivered a record number of clean energy projects, enough to power the equivalent of 2 million homes, and the Government’s commitment to offshore wind remains unchanged, which is 50 GW by 2030.

    We are heading for 120GW of capacity with only a need for 45GW (and declining). As someone pointed out, we have very expensive electricity due to hard wired (ho-ho) CfD's
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,176
    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,072
    edited 1:58PM
    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
    Badenoch has The Hague/Howard/IDS slot, and the Tories won’t get a proper hearing until they move on to the next generation, untainted by previous failures (à la Cameron), and convincingly recant their ideological anti-Europeanism.
    How many voters want a centre right party which is pro EU and aren't already voting LD anyway? Hague and Howard and IDS to be fair to them at least united the right. To get back into power the Tories need to become the main party of the right again and regain voters lost to Reform first and then reach out to the centre as well (unless we get PR). Arguably Restore eating into the Reform vote from tomorrow and Burnham becoming Labour leader and shifting the government left so a few centrist voters shift to the Tories in response would help the party more than anything Kemi does
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
    He truly is a nasty piece of shit with that comment. If he hadn’t bored us to tears about his love of a crap midlands football team I would assume he was a pissed up Al Campbell.

    Making up shit like that though to score political points is fucking low.
    Fuck off are Birmingham City crap.
    I had to stop shopping at Bobby Hope's newsagents on May Lane when he joined Tilton Rovers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    Yes it is with some reasonably obvious caveats. Would you want to return to the car bombs exploding outside the Europa Hotel every five minutes?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    OT my mate's boy goes up to big school after the summer and they have to pay to rent the lockers! Chairs and desks are still free aiui.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,176

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    I thought you might enjoy the article for it agrees with some of what you're saying.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,817

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    I see the bullshit over the Minnesota shooters being a Dem turned out to be bollocks.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2026/06/11/us/vance-boelter-federal-plea-minnesota-lawmaker-killing
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,050
    Burnham is frit

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2067245963408802293

    Burnham would rather not directly launch a leadership challenge against Starmer, sources say. Instead, his allies are asking the cabinet to persuade the PM to agree an orderly transition and not to run in a contest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    Yes it is with some reasonably obvious caveats. Would you want to return to the car bombs exploding outside the Europa Hotel every five minutes?
    So race riots are an acceptable price?

    Or should we risk a certain amount of disorder to clamp down on criminal behaviour?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,754
    X
    Edinburgh Airport@EDI_Airport
    🛫| Prepare yourself, Boston.

    Tartan Army reinforcements are on their way. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    https://x.com/EDI_Airport/status/2067205654809317866
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,923
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
    Badenoch has The Hague/Howard/IDS slot, and the Tories won’t get a proper hearing until they move on to the next generation, untainted by previous failures (à la Cameron), and convincingly recant their ideological anti-Europeanism.
    How many voters want a centre right party which is pro EU and aren't already voting LD anyway? Hague and Howard and IDS to be fair to them at least united the right. To get back into power the Tories need to become the main party of the right again and regain voters lost to Reform first and then reach out to the centre as well (unless we get PR). Arguably Restore eating into the Reform vote from tomorrow and Burnham becoming Labour leader and shifting the government left so a few centrist voters shift to the Tories in response would help the party more than anything Kemi does
    Indeed. There is a limit to how many people there are who want a centre-right party that is pro-business, anti-EU, and non-racist, which is where the current Cons have ended up. Currently the right is split between three - Conservatives, Reform, Restore - and until something happens to meld them into one (or even one-point-five) the Conservatives will remain in trouble.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    Yes it is with some reasonably obvious caveats. Would you want to return to the car bombs exploding outside the Europa Hotel every five minutes?
    So race riots are an acceptable price?

    Or should we risk a certain amount of disorder to clamp down on criminal behaviour?
    I added provisos but I stand by my evaluation.

    Perfect is the enemy of good.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,209

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    I thought you might enjoy the article for it agrees with some of what you're saying.
    My understanding was that Northern Ireland had always had a problem with racism but that it was less apparent because of the sectarian violence and low migration levels (because of the sectarian violence).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    Yes it is with some reasonably obvious caveats. Would you want to return to the car bombs exploding outside the Europa Hotel every five minutes?
    So race riots are an acceptable price?

    Or should we risk a certain amount of disorder to clamp down on criminal behaviour?
    I added provisos but I stand by my evaluation.

    Perfect is the enemy of good.
    Which is the kind of reasoning that has been used to avoid dealing with gangsters running the streets.

    The belief that any kind of law enforcement against them “risks the peace process”
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,533
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
    Badenoch has The Hague/Howard/IDS slot, and the Tories won’t get a proper hearing until they move on to the next generation, untainted by previous failures (à la Cameron), and convincingly recant their ideological anti-Europeanism.
    How many voters want a centre right party which is pro EU and aren't already voting LD anyway? Hague and Howard and IDS to be fair to them at least united the right. To get back into power the Tories need to become the main party of the right again and regain voters lost to Reform first and then reach out to the centre as well (unless we get PR). Arguably Restore eating into the Reform vote from tomorrow and Burnham becoming Labour leader and shifting the government left so a few centrist voters shift to the Tories in response would help the party more than anything Kemi does
    Indeed. There is a limit to how many people there are who want a centre-right party that is pro-business, anti-EU, and non-racist, which is where the current Cons have ended up. Currently the right is split between three - Conservatives, Reform, Restore - and until something happens to meld them into one (or even one-point-five) the Conservatives will remain in trouble.
    You will be surprisd how high that limit is.

    Badenoch is getting a hearing again from those who want a centre-right party that is pro-business, anti-EU, and non-racist.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793
    Dopermean said:

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    I thought you might enjoy the article for it agrees with some of what you're saying.
    My understanding was that Northern Ireland had always had a problem with racism but that it was less apparent because of the sectarian violence and low migration levels (because of the sectarian violence).
    It’s a place where there are multiple walls to prevent people from attacking each other on he basis of their “group”.

    Literal No Go areas for themuns.

    The idea that such people might not love other kinds of incomers is just ridiculous, isn’t it?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,923

    Burnham is frit

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2067245963408802293

    Burnham would rather not directly launch a leadership challenge against Starmer, sources say. Instead, his allies are asking the cabinet to persuade the PM to agree an orderly transition and not to run in a contest.

    Oh for fuck's sake, really? Why is he doing all this stupid [badword]ery if he's just going to do nothing at the end of it? You come at the king, you'd better not...stop half-way through and ask for an orderly transition, pweeze. Honestly, what is the point of this party?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
    Badenoch has The Hague/Howard/IDS slot, and the Tories won’t get a proper hearing until they move on to the next generation, untainted by previous failures (à la Cameron), and convincingly recant their ideological anti-Europeanism.
    How many voters want a centre right party which is pro EU and aren't already voting LD anyway? Hague and Howard and IDS to be fair to them at least united the right. To get back into power the Tories need to become the main party of the right again and regain voters lost to Reform first and then reach out to the centre as well (unless we get PR). Arguably Restore eating into the Reform vote from tomorrow and Burnham becoming Labour leader and shifting the government left so a few centrist voters shift to the Tories in response would help the party more than anything Kemi does
    Indeed. There is a limit to how many people there are who want a centre-right party that is pro-business, anti-EU, and non-racist, which is where the current Cons have ended up. Currently the right is split between three - Conservatives, Reform, Restore - and until something happens to meld them into one (or even one-point-five) the Conservatives will remain in trouble.
    You will be surprisd how high that limit is.

    Badenoch is getting a hearing again from those who want a centre-right party that is pro-business, anti-EU, and non-racist.
    To quote Meatloaf " two out of three ain't bad".
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,050
    https://x.com/derJamesJackson/status/2067211645407883273

    The AfD is at 40% in east Germany, winning in the west

    image
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,923

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    theProle said:

    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    Surely the situation in which the Tory party finds itself is somewhat Sui Generis.

    If you told IDS or Hague in the early 2000s that they could have a Labour government languishing at around 20% in the polls two years after winning a substantial landslide, they would have bitten your hand off.

    Explain that the Tory score is also about 20%, and has fallen since they lost the last election, and they would have looked really confused.

    Is Badenoch objectively a failure? She's scored a good few hits on Starmer (the humble address over Mandelson being the biggest win), and ably assisted the Labour Party in their rush to ensure they are unelectable again for a generation.

    On the other hand, none of this appears to have done her party any good, the voters haven't yet forgiven them for their last term on office.

    Personally, I can't see any other Tory doing substantially better than her - their problem is that they've Ratnered the brand.

    I think I would say at this point that the present *Tory party* is a failure, and therefore successfully leading it is impossible.
    Badenoch has The Hague/Howard/IDS slot, and the Tories won’t get a proper hearing until they move on to the next generation, untainted by previous failures (à la Cameron), and convincingly recant their ideological anti-Europeanism.
    How many voters want a centre right party which is pro EU and aren't already voting LD anyway? Hague and Howard and IDS to be fair to them at least united the right. To get back into power the Tories need to become the main party of the right again and regain voters lost to Reform first and then reach out to the centre as well (unless we get PR). Arguably Restore eating into the Reform vote from tomorrow and Burnham becoming Labour leader and shifting the government left so a few centrist voters shift to the Tories in response would help the party more than anything Kemi does
    Indeed. There is a limit to how many people there are who want a centre-right party that is pro-business, anti-EU, and non-racist, which is where the current Cons have ended up. Currently the right is split between three - Conservatives, Reform, Restore - and until something happens to meld them into one (or even one-point-five) the Conservatives will remain in trouble.
    You will be surprisd how high that limit is.

    Badenoch is getting a hearing again from those who want a centre-right party that is pro-business, anti-EU, and non-racist.
    Oh, indeed. But I don't think it's over 30%. The advantage of the Conservative Party is that it soaks up and neutralises/reduces Conservative emotional reactions, which is how you get to a Thatcher-sized majority. Without it, I don't see them hitting 30-35%. Anti-trans stuff may make a slight difference, but when you've got Reform going "deport migrants" and Restore going "...and use flamethowers while you're at it" it's not enough.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,176
    Did we cover this? Jeremy Corbyn has changed his affiliation on the Parliament website from Independent Alliance to Your Party. That means that Your Party is now listed as having two MPs (although two more MPs are also members), which makes them the 10th equal largest party in the Commons, tied with the SDLP.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    edited 2:26PM

    https://x.com/derJamesJackson/status/2067211645407883273

    The AfD is at 40% in east Germany, winning in the west

    image

    You do like your far right German Nationalist parties don't you?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,817

    https://x.com/derJamesJackson/status/2067211645407883273

    The AfD is at 40% in east Germany, winning in the west

    image

    You do like your far right German Nationalist parties don't you?
    He's showing his inner Scot Nat and misusing subsamples.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,149

    https://x.com/derJamesJackson/status/2067211645407883273

    The AfD is at 40% in east Germany, winning in the west

    image

    You do like your far right German Nationalist parties don't you?
    He's showing his inner Scot Nat and misusing subsamples.
    I don’t dare to guess how long the word for subsample is in German.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,140
    viewcode said:

    Burnham is frit

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2067245963408802293

    Burnham would rather not directly launch a leadership challenge against Starmer, sources say. Instead, his allies are asking the cabinet to persuade the PM to agree an orderly transition and not to run in a contest.

    Oh for fuck's sake, really? Why is he doing all this stupid [badword]ery if he's just going to do nothing at the end of it? You come at the king, you'd better not...stop half-way through and ask for an orderly transition, pweeze. Honestly, what is the point of this party?
    I agree.

    I said elsewhere. If Burnham wants to be PM, then his running for Parliament was step 1. Assuming he wins tomorrow he's an MP by Monday and should launch a challenge by Tuesday. Anything else makes him look like an idiot.......
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,176

    On the riots in Belfast and the failure to tackle Loyalist groups: https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/elon-musk-belfast-pogrom-lee-hurley

    But the Peace Process is so wonderful!
    Yes it is with some reasonably obvious caveats. Would you want to return to the car bombs exploding outside the Europa Hotel every five minutes?
    So race riots are an acceptable price?

    Or should we risk a certain amount of disorder to clamp down on criminal behaviour?
    I added provisos but I stand by my evaluation.

    Perfect is the enemy of good.
    Which is the kind of reasoning that has been used to avoid dealing with gangsters running the streets.

    The belief that any kind of law enforcement against them “risks the peace process”
    But most people think that's not the case and we could have a bit more law enforcement without any jeopardy to the peace process. Whereas you appear to think that the entire peace process was a mistake.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    edited 2:35PM

    https://x.com/derJamesJackson/status/2067211645407883273

    The AfD is at 40% in east Germany, winning in the west

    image

    You do like your far right German Nationalist parties don't you?
    He's showing his inner Scot Nat and misusing subsamples.
    Is he also forgetting Germany operate a proportional voting system, so even if 40% of East Germany voted AfD, they still could be "close but no cigar"?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,376
    Damian Lyons from Survation thinks it’s possible that Makerfield polling is inflating the Reform vote share .

    This apparently due to voter recall where pre weighting that’s closer to the mayoral election not the GE2024 .

    By then weighting the sample to GE2024 this inflates the Reform vote share.


  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,817

    NEW THREAD

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,359
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    Calm down, Claire Coutinho was Sunak's SPAD when he was at the Treasury, he thought about appointing her Chancellor.

    The speculation has not gone unnoticed by Labour, with some frontbenchers fearing that Sunak will replace Hunt with Claire Coutinho, the net-zero secretary and one of his closest allies, to stop Rachel Reeves from claiming the mantle of Britain’s first female chancellor.

    https://www.thetimes.com/money/tax/article/is-jeremy-hunt-the-right-person-to-help-sell-change-gg9mp3kxd

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/12/08/the-next-chancellor/

    There's plenty of articles showing he's a big fan of hers

    https://www.politico.eu/article/claire-coutinho-the-uks-chancellor-in-the-wings/

    Here's another PB thread

    I think the best bet is on former Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero Claire Coutinho who I backed with Ladbrokes today at 50/1. She’s a Sunak favourite as this article from March shows and it wouldn’t surprise me if Sunak made her Shadow Chancellor this week.

    https://www.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/08/its-not-looking-good-for-suella-braverman/

    I cannot find the article at the moment but there was another piece which showed recently she was taking a lot of advice from Sunak.
    And you really think that’s what he was getting at?
    Thats exactly the point I was making.

    A protege of Sunak

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,359
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Brixian59 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
    Are you trying to make some sort of innuendo? If so have some bollocks and come out with it.
    It would be better for everyone if he doesn't.
    He truly is a nasty piece of shit with that comment. If he hadn’t bored us to tears about his love of a crap midlands football team I would assume he was a pissed up Al Campbell.

    Making up shit like that though to score political points is fucking low.
    You've clearly got a filthy mind not me

    She was Sunak chosen long term successor, a family friend
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