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Wes Streeting could be about to do Andy Burnham a huge favour – politicalbetting.com

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  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 592
    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,021
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.

    The story of the Czar's horse springs to mind.
    You’ll have to enlighten me ! I’m intrigued .
    This one?

    One of your most ancient writers, a historian named Herodotus, tells of a thief who was to be executed. As he was taken away he made a bargain with the king: in one year he would teach the king's favorite horse to sing hymns. The other prisoners watched the thief singing to the horse and laughed. "You will not succeed," they told him. "No one can." To which the thief replied, "I have a year, and who knows what might happen in that time. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die. And perhaps the horse will learn to sing.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/877324-one-of-your-most-ancient-writers-a-historian-named-herodotus

    And if there's reason to think that Burnham will be a worse PM than Starmer, and the Streeting will be a worse PM than Starmer, maybe it's his patriotic duty to not give way.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,050
    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    There's probably a lot of latent anti-black racism in people who dismiss her.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,729
    edited 9:49AM
    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,319
    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    I do not like the word hate directed at Starmer, or for that matter anyone, but he came to power with a landslide and high hopes were quickly tarnished by his freebies and the WFA debacle

    He is clearly not suited as a PM, probably a better Attorney General, but he has lost the room across the political spectrum to the point he needs to step aside for the labour party's sake and more widely the country

    We have no idea what follows and whilst I think Burnham will be OK on domestics issues, I have no idea how he copes internationally and will need a good Foreign Secretary

    As far as Kemi is concerned, of course she is not going to win hearts and minds of her opponents but it cannot denied she has made significant progress and has the advantage of the leader of the opposition for the next 3 years and will get the exposure commensurate with that position
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,683
    edited 9:49AM

    Nigelb said:

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    There's also this, which might even be true ?
    (Treat with large pinch of salt.)

    https://x.com/NewSamawal/status/2066527500201492710
    The US secretly approved a financial and maritime arrangement between Qatar and Iran, under which billions of dollars were paid to Tehran in exchange for free passage for Qatari tankers and ships through the Strait of Hormuz, three diplomatic officials now confirm.

    This was a deliberate and conscious course of action by the US administration, which allowed its navy to turn a blind eye to the arrangement, in complete contradiction of its declared policy. The move was intended to ease the crisis in global energy markets and curb rising oil prices.
    Oh it is true, Trump is showing how he went bankrupt running a casino.
    China, regarding the Malacca Strait, will be closely looking at the concept if Trump's idiotic action sees a return to tolls through narrow shipping lanes. Also, potentially, the Houthis, the Danes, and us alongside the French for the Channel.
    AIUI the Danes charge for pilotage services (not tolls) through the Kattegat to access the Baltic. I am not sure of there is a "Swedish side" on that one. And the Bosporus has grandfathered in rules from before the UN created law.

    Strictly, aiui (this is not quite my beat) it is problematic legally through channels which are not in the possession of one country or give access to other countries at the other end.

    I think the most interesting one is the North-West passage, which aiui is in places entirely within Canadian territorial waters. That's quite a bargaining chip with respect to the US.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793
    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    Hope casting. See Andy Burnham.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,342
    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.
    She's fine, a bit meh, a bit prone to gaffs. Not the finished article. Doesn't need to be yet. Needs to be better in time for the next GE. I wonder how Cameron would have survived in the full glare of social media a al 2026 back when he took over as LOTO.

    I also think she scares Labour a bit as she would be the 4th female PM from the Tories, the second of PM of colour from the Tories. But, but Labour is the party of women and the minorities...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,342

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    Hope casting. See Andy Burnham.
    Definitely a bit of that. But she's not completely terrible.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,331
    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
    At present Kirklees has:

    Reform UK (29)
    Green (12)
    Conservative (9)
    Liberal Democrats (5)
    Independent (14)

    Place your bets !!!
    The Green led coalition has the Lib Dems and all Independents backing them, so 31 votes.

    The Independents are a full mix of Muslim community independents, I think a couple may be ex-Labour, some left independents and 3 more traditional village true independents.

    Conservatives are actively voting against both groups (though 2 abstained for Reform at the second meeting). Their line is that they will only support a council where both Reform and the Green led grouping come together.

    If they do drop some of their opposition, it may depend on which councillors are absent from the next meeting who gets in.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,278

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    Hope casting. See Andy Burnham.
    Definitely a bit of that. But she's not completely terrible.
    Surely a net favourability rating around 0 shows just that. Not that anyone sees anything in her, that would need a significant positive number
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,003
    edited 9:55AM

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    The other thing with these pictures is that it is one shot. A minute later he could have been deep in conversation with several people. They used to do this with Johnson and the EU members.
    If you’re paying attention there’s lots of current footage and pics of Trump looking fcuked, eg

    https://x.com/hqnewsnow/status/2066906185672884529?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Aging is decline interspersed with falling off precipices, until the final drop. Trump has definitely just fallen off one precipice.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,342

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    The other thing with these pictures is that it is one shot. A minute later he could have been deep in conversation with several people. They used to do this with Johnson and the EU members.

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    The other thing with these pictures is that it is one shot. A minute later he could have been deep in conversation with several people. They used to do this with Johnson and the EU members.
    If you’re paying attention there’s lots of current footage and pics of Trump looking fcuked, eg

    https://x.com/hqnewsnow/status/2066906185672884529?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Aging is decline interspersed with falling off precipices, until the final drop. Trump has definitely just fallen off one precipice.

    I don't disagree. I think his decline is very marked and he seems to keep falling asleep. Add in the missing days (treatment?) and you suspect we won't be look at Trump that much longer. But my point about the photo still stands and it was regularly used (mis-used) with Johnson to show how 'isolated' he looked.
  • Jim_the_LurkerJim_the_Lurker Posts: 325

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    Hope casting. See Andy Burnham.
    Definitely a bit of that. But she's not completely terrible.
    I think both party leaderships are in waters that they don’t appear to be able to navigate. With Labour many seem to think, with scant evidence, that Burnham is the answer. With the Conservatives there does not appear to be an obvious contender. So I think that helps Badenoch hold on. It may have been a different position had Jenrick not ratted.

    I also hope that there are some adults within the Conservative Party who realise what a drubbing 2024 was for them, and that isn’t going to change overnight. As long as there is some progress - and that progress could simply be arresting decline - then I expect them to give Badenoch the freedom to lead.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515
    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
    At present Kirklees has:

    Reform UK (29)
    Green (12)
    Conservative (9)
    Liberal Democrats (5)
    Independent (14)

    Place your bets !!!
    I've told the story already about the newly elected Reform councillor on the island, who admitted that he'd only applied after his wife saw an advert online seeking Reform candidates, the next thing he knew he was told he was the candidate for his ward, and without running any campaign (other than nationally organised and funded Farage mailshots) found himself as the new councillor.

    They were lucky in falling one short of a majority, enabling them to duck having to lead the council, but they've picked up a fair few committee chairs (the county council recently abandoned the cabinet model) and are going through their induction now. One would hope that those Reform members tasked with special responsibilities will be doing their homework....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,729
    edited 10:02AM
    .

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    There's probably a lot of latent anti-black racism in people who dismiss her.
    I suppose you include me as a racist.

    I might suggest it isn't racist to say an incompetent black person is in fact incompetent.

    I actually have a lot of "latent" goodwill towards Badenoch. Unlike most politicians who have to invent backstories, Badenoch has a genuinely great story to tell. She is an actual immigrant to the UK who is one step away from being Prime Minister. What does that say about her? What does it say about her adoptive country that it can embrace people in her situation? It's inspiring, but it's not a backstory that Badenoch leans into, at all. Which I guess is her right.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,319

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    The other thing with these pictures is that it is one shot. A minute later he could have been deep in conversation with several people. They used to do this with Johnson and the EU members.

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    The other thing with these pictures is that it is one shot. A minute later he could have been deep in conversation with several people. They used to do this with Johnson and the EU members.
    If you’re paying attention there’s lots of current footage and pics of Trump looking fcuked, eg

    https://x.com/hqnewsnow/status/2066906185672884529?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Aging is decline interspersed with falling off precipices, until the final drop. Trump has definitely just fallen off one precipice.

    I don't disagree. I think his decline is very marked and he seems to keep falling asleep. Add in the missing days (treatment?) and you suspect we won't be look at Trump that much longer. But my point about the photo still stands and it was regularly used (mis-used) with Johnson to show how 'isolated' he looked.
    Trump looks utterly lost at times quite vacant at the G7

    He turned 80 this week, and when I turned 80 lots of my health issues came to the fore not least a serious loss of mobility

    I doubt he has the mental capacity for POTUS and goodness knows what comes next

    In an ideal world he would be replaced by a sensible POTUS but we are a very long way away from that
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515
    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    The question isn't whether people like her or would vote for her, but whether they think she's doing a good job as leader of the party.

    Personally, I think she's doing a grand job, leading them precisely nowhere.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,094
    FF43 said:

    .

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    There's probably a lot of latent anti-black racism in people who dismiss her.
    I suppose you include me as a racist.

    I might suggest it isn't racist to say an incompetent black person is in fact incompetent.

    I actually have a lot of "latent" goodwill towards Badenoch. Unlike most politicians who have to invent backstories, Badenoch has a genuinely great story to tell. She is an actual immigrant to the UK who is one step away from being Prime Minister. What does that say about her? What does it say about her adoptive country that it can embrace people in her situation? It's inspiring, but it's not a backstory that Badenoch leans into, at all. Which I guess is her right.
    Which politicians qualify for competence these days? It is close to an impossible job to start with, and then the people most attracted to it and driven to rise to prominence are largely the ones with the wrong temperament to be competent.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,683
    edited 10:16AM
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    Reading the account of the pair in the Yacht I suspect it was all a bit overblown.

    They dont deny that the Russian Ship followed Global procedures with Horn signals, repeated them twice and tried to contact them on radio, when that failed they fired shots IN TO THE AIR to warn them!

    Had they been smashed in to by the Russian ship, even if their fault can you imagine the outcry!
    That's not what they say.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/16/russian-frigate-fires-warning-shots-at-british-yacht-in-channel-reports
    ..She also told BBC Newsnight: “They gave out five blasts on their horn, which means ‘have you seen us?’

    “We immediately turned two degrees to port so they could see we made a deliberate change of course, which meant we had seen them.

    “A minute or so later, they gave another five blasts on their horn followed by four to five small arms fire, which wasn’t aimed at us, it was warning fire which went up in the air.”

    The couple took issue with the Russian version of events.

    Jane added: “They didn’t send up any flares, they didn’t try to radio us, they didn’t look to us like they were adrift, we were definitely not on a collision course. We were going to miss them. It just wasn’t an incident until the gunfire started.”..


    They also say they were no closer than 450m, and that the Russian ship had AIS turned off.
    It's really hard to play "You Are the Ref" without knowing the relative position of both vessels but I don't believe their no VHF hail story for one second. On the whole, I'd trust the seamanship of a Krivak's crew (or any Navy) over Sid and Doris Bonkers. If the Russians really had wanted to shit them up, they'd have just let the collision happen. I also think the Krivak's commander was a bit windy about getting USS Coled.
    I've no idea whose account is more accurate.
    But as the Russians could give Trump a run for his money in an international version of The Unbelievable Truth, I'm not predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    The suggestion that the Russian warship was drifting without power in one of the busiest shiplanes in the world, where it has no pressing reason (other than mischief) to be, doesn't say much about their 'seamanship'.
    5 blasts on the horn means "I am unclear of your intentions" not "have you seen us?" and a 2° course change is insignificant.

    On the other hand a boat under sail has priority over one under motor power, so it would be the frigate's responsibility to change course.

    The exception would be if the motor vessel had lost power and was drifting, in which case it should be displaying the appropriate lights and markers and issued a Mayday.
    There's a short statement from the couple here on the Beeb on video, which is perhaps the same source:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20yzm84r7lo

    Circs seem to be: Retired couple 68 & 70 sailing their 12m yacht to Cherbourg. Russians running with beacon switched off. When hooted at the couple changed course by two degrees. The Russians did not seem to think it was enough, and hooted again and fired bullets into wherever they fired them.

    A couple of outlets (Telegraph etc) running "Britain HUMILIATED by Russia" type headlines, in my view because it is more barrel-scrapings to throw at a Labour / Starmer Government.

    I have not seen what Kemi or Farage said.

    I think it is minor compared to others we see, whether the hybrid attacks (Salisbury etc) or the cold war style bomber flights approaching the UK, or the various criminal things done linked to Russia.

    Clearly a fit and probably prosperous retired couple - those yachts are about double the price of the Sturgeon motorhome. A new one is in the same ballpark as an average house.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,896
    Hang on, Burnham has wielded the dagger by running in this by election (and wanting to run in the previous one).
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,995
    Speaking as the last remaining member of the Labour Party I would like to see some unseemly haste. Some seemly shutting the fuck up would also work but that ship has obviously sailed as far as Mr Burnham is concerned. What I definitely don't want to see is month after month of sulking and plotting.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,569

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Is this Starmers Hail Mary ?

    Try and kick a leadership challenge past the summer and hope something pops up that bursts the Burnham balloon.

    The story of the Czar's horse springs to mind.
    You’ll have to enlighten me ! I’m intrigued .
    This one?

    One of your most ancient writers, a historian named Herodotus, tells of a thief who was to be executed. As he was taken away he made a bargain with the king: in one year he would teach the king's favorite horse to sing hymns. The other prisoners watched the thief singing to the horse and laughed. "You will not succeed," they told him. "No one can." To which the thief replied, "I have a year, and who knows what might happen in that time. The king might die. The horse might die. I might die. And perhaps the horse will learn to sing.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/877324-one-of-your-most-ancient-writers-a-historian-named-herodotus

    And if there's reason to think that Burnham will be a worse PM than Starmer, and the Streeting will be a worse PM than Starmer, maybe it's his patriotic duty to not give way.
    I had always known this as a Jewish joke from Russia, interesting that it started out as a Greek joke!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515

    Speaking as the last remaining member of the Labour Party I would like to see some unseemly haste. Some seemly shutting the fuck up would also work but that ship has obviously sailed as far as Mr Burnham is concerned. What I definitely don't want to see is month after month of sulking and plotting.

    Which - on topic - is another clear risk for Streeting. It's obvious that if Burnham wins the by-election convincingly, he'll be a shoo-in for the leadership, and both the Labour Party and more importantly our national interest points towards Labour getting its internal processes over and done with as quickly and as soon as possible. Streeting won't endear himself to anyone forcing a long and ultimately pointless contest.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,817

    New: Starmer starts rolling the pitch with his main argument against an immediate leadership contest - saying Burnham should help with the mayoral byelection.

    He tells me: "We're immediately tipped into a Manchester mayoral contest by-election, one of the biggest by-elections that we've ever fought, because of the scale of it.

    "And it's really important to my mind that the whole of the Labour Party and Labour movement focuses on that, which is the next most immediate task.

    "I don't think there should be a challenge. I think history, particularly the last government, shows that that isn't a successful way for a government to behave. But if there is a challenge, then I intend to fight.

    "I'm not going to walk away from that, and I've been clear and consistent about that."


    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2067148730118074847

    That's a level of transparency so profound it's akin to invisibility.
    I cannot criticise as I am regularly described as transparent as water.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    FF43 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    Intense curiosity actually.

    Badenoch is objectively a failure. Any previous Conservative leader would be out the door by now on her performance. But for some reason her partisans think she's pretty good. I have no idea why they think that.
    IDS had two years; Michael Howard had two years; Kemi has a few months to go by that metric.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,683
    edited 10:32AM
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    Yes, I was amazed to see the pathetic and pitiful comments from the Reform Councillors on KIrklees.

    I did a fair bit of my career in local Government and EVERY Council for whom I worked provided post-election training and induction for newly elected councillors. This involved face to face meetings with senior officers for potential Cabinet/Committee Chairs and a "market place" where all the senior service leads made themselves available to introduce themselves and inform the newly elected Members as to what their Service did.

    Another very important document was the Member-Officer Protocol which set out in detail the roles, responsibilites and obligations which defined the relationship between Officers and Members and for those who needed or wanted it, the Legal Service was available to cover all aspects of the Council's legal functionning from the Constitution onwards.

    To hear a senior Reform Councillor claim she didn't know what a "Standing Order" was is astonishing. If she had been unavailable to attend the new Member inductionl altermative arrangements could and would have been made.

    This "don't do nasty things, we don't know what's going on" defence cuts very little ice.

    As to choosing an administration at Kirklees, the main option seems to be Chaos under the Conservatives.
    At present Kirklees has:

    Reform UK (29)
    Green (12)
    Conservative (9)
    Liberal Democrats (5)
    Independent (14)

    Place your bets !!!
    I've told the story already about the newly elected Reform councillor on the island, who admitted that he'd only applied after his wife saw an advert online seeking Reform candidates, the next thing he knew he was told he was the candidate for his ward, and without running any campaign (other than nationally organised and funded Farage mailshots) found himself as the new councillor.

    They were lucky in falling one short of a majority, enabling them to duck having to lead the council, but they've picked up a fair few committee chairs (the county council recently abandoned the cabinet model) and are going through their induction now. One would hope that those Reform members tasked with special responsibilities will be doing their homework....
    I think it is very patchy indeed across different places, both with political positions, whether serious or cynical in approach (some are fishing to be MPs as their main plan I think), and in ability to run things.

    Here in Notts I'd say that, whatever their political stance and what we think of it * there is some experience of Council mechanics and procedures in the group. There are two Councillors who were formerly Councillors for the Mansfield Independent Forum, one for 20+ years if my memory serves. He was at District Level, but Mansfield is a District with a population of 110k .

    So at least their wet-behind-the-ears colleagues have someone around who knows what an Agenda is, and what an Amendment means.

    * I would define many as Captain Mainwarings and think of them as quite unstable in their political programmes, now and in the past. I'd compare it as in some ways similar to pre-2015 UKIP.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,534
    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    The question isn't whether people like her or would vote for her, but whether they think she's doing a good job as leader of the party.

    Personally, I think she's doing a grand job, leading them precisely nowhere.
    Given the Labour shitshow you don't need to do much to look competent. When push comes to shove then lots will not want to risk voting in Reform nutters.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,534

    New: Starmer starts rolling the pitch with his main argument against an immediate leadership contest - saying Burnham should help with the mayoral byelection.

    He tells me: "We're immediately tipped into a Manchester mayoral contest by-election, one of the biggest by-elections that we've ever fought, because of the scale of it.

    "And it's really important to my mind that the whole of the Labour Party and Labour movement focuses on that, which is the next most immediate task.

    "I don't think there should be a challenge. I think history, particularly the last government, shows that that isn't a successful way for a government to behave. But if there is a challenge, then I intend to fight.

    "I'm not going to walk away from that, and I've been clear and consistent about that."


    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2067148730118074847

    That's a level of transparency so profound it's akin to invisibility.
    I cannot criticise as I am regularly described as transparent as water.
    Is that muddy water
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515
    malcolmg said:

    New: Starmer starts rolling the pitch with his main argument against an immediate leadership contest - saying Burnham should help with the mayoral byelection.

    He tells me: "We're immediately tipped into a Manchester mayoral contest by-election, one of the biggest by-elections that we've ever fought, because of the scale of it.

    "And it's really important to my mind that the whole of the Labour Party and Labour movement focuses on that, which is the next most immediate task.

    "I don't think there should be a challenge. I think history, particularly the last government, shows that that isn't a successful way for a government to behave. But if there is a challenge, then I intend to fight.

    "I'm not going to walk away from that, and I've been clear and consistent about that."


    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2067148730118074847

    That's a level of transparency so profound it's akin to invisibility.
    I cannot criticise as I am regularly described as transparent as water.
    Is that muddy water
    or frozen water?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,793
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    I see the MoD have decided to play down the Frigate incident.

    Reading the account of the pair in the Yacht I suspect it was all a bit overblown.

    They dont deny that the Russian Ship followed Global procedures with Horn signals, repeated them twice and tried to contact them on radio, when that failed they fired shots IN TO THE AIR to warn them!

    Had they been smashed in to by the Russian ship, even if their fault can you imagine the outcry!
    That's not what they say.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/16/russian-frigate-fires-warning-shots-at-british-yacht-in-channel-reports
    ..She also told BBC Newsnight: “They gave out five blasts on their horn, which means ‘have you seen us?’

    “We immediately turned two degrees to port so they could see we made a deliberate change of course, which meant we had seen them.

    “A minute or so later, they gave another five blasts on their horn followed by four to five small arms fire, which wasn’t aimed at us, it was warning fire which went up in the air.”

    The couple took issue with the Russian version of events.

    Jane added: “They didn’t send up any flares, they didn’t try to radio us, they didn’t look to us like they were adrift, we were definitely not on a collision course. We were going to miss them. It just wasn’t an incident until the gunfire started.”..


    They also say they were no closer than 450m, and that the Russian ship had AIS turned off.
    It's really hard to play "You Are the Ref" without knowing the relative position of both vessels but I don't believe their no VHF hail story for one second. On the whole, I'd trust the seamanship of a Krivak's crew (or any Navy) over Sid and Doris Bonkers. If the Russians really had wanted to shit them up, they'd have just let the collision happen. I also think the Krivak's commander was a bit windy about getting USS Coled.
    I've no idea whose account is more accurate.
    But as the Russians could give Trump a run for his money in an international version of The Unbelievable Truth, I'm not predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    The suggestion that the Russian warship was drifting without power in one of the busiest shiplanes in the world, where it has no pressing reason (other than mischief) to be, doesn't say much about their 'seamanship'.
    5 blasts on the horn means "I am unclear of your intentions" not "have you seen us?" and a 2° course change is insignificant.

    On the other hand a boat under sail has priority over one under motor power, so it would be the frigate's responsibility to change course.

    The exception would be if the motor vessel had lost power and was drifting, in which case it should be displaying the appropriate lights and markers and issued a Mayday.
    There's a short statement from the couple here on the Beeb on video, which is perhaps the same source:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20yzm84r7lo

    Circs seem to be: Retired couple 68 & 70 sailing their 12m yacht to Cherbourg. Russians running with beacon switched off. When hooted at the couple changed course by two degrees. The Russians did not seem to think it was enough, and hooted again and fired bullets into wherever they fired them.

    A couple of outlets (Telegraph etc) running "Britain HUMILIATED by Russia" type headlines, in my view because it is more barrel-scrapings to throw at a Labour / Starmer Government.

    I have not seen what Kemi or Farage said.

    I think it is minor compared to others we see, whether the hybrid attacks (Salisbury etc) or the cold war style bomber flights approaching the UK, or the various criminal things done linked to Russia.

    Clearly a fit and probably prosperous retired couple - those yachts are about double the price of the Sturgeon motorhome. A new one is in the same ballpark as an average house.
    Worth noting that several of the Russian ships hit by the Ukranians at sea, with drones, were stopped (or nearly so) at the time.

    Perhaps that’s typical behaviour in the Russian navy?

    Dumb if true. Especially in the Channel which is very busy - not having the ability to manoeuvre would be very stupid.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,284
    edited 10:39AM
    It's very comforting to see a new opinion poll today putting the Greens down on 9%, their lowest for a long time.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,533

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    Apparently, he is the Leader of the Free World.

    He's clearly been embarassed by the Iran "Epic Fury Fail" expedition. Probably realising those around him who don't hate his guts are spectacularly useless. A lonely place.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,683
    I think I am probably banned from the USA.

    I publicly offered to go and celebrate the 250th Anniversary by personally burning down the new bits Trump is adding to the White House.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,381

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    The whole thing is interesting. We have had lots of predictions of economic gloom and including from people who ought to know or be well informed, including some PBers. And yes fuel has been expensive and there must be knock on effects to come. Yet at the moment, assuming the deal really is the opening of the Straights, you have to wonder if there has been enough flexibility in the systems to handle this.

    Or is it all 'baked in' and coming down the line?
    There is a lot of costs baked in for the future - debt, interest rates paid on debt, demographics both here and elsewhere in the west, unstable politics (social media driven) which leads to indecision. and a legacy of underfunding infrastructure which means costly repairs or more debt.

    For all their ills, this government didn't splash the cash of the previous ones but it's not politically acceptable to most of the key voting groups.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    Apparently, he is the Leader of the Free World.

    He's clearly been embarassed by the Iran "Epic Fury Fail" expedition. Probably realising those around him who don't hate his guts are spectacularly useless. A lonely place.
    Could equally be that, the moment the cameras appear, everyone else turns away for fear of the photo turning up at home and their being seen by their domestic voters as trying to cosy up to him?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Superficially resembling a dragonfly, but more closely related to lacewings and ant-lions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,072
    The Combined Authorities (Mayoral Elections) Order 2026 has passed through Parliament.

    This means the Supplementary Vote system has returned for Combined Authority Mayoral Elections, and would apply should a Mayoral By-Election be triggered in Greater Manchester.

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/2067188549401653440?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    Andy_JS said:

    It's very comforting to see a new opinion poll today putting the Greens down on 9%, their lowest for a long time.

    Not if one is a Green.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972
    edited 10:55AM

    algarkirk said:

    Fpt

    O tempora! O mores! A short time line:

    1920: Qualification in Greek ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    1960: Qualification in Latin ceases to be compulsory for Oxford
    2026: Government considers making qualification in English Language a requirement for student loans.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jun/17/students-pass-gcse-english-university-loans-proposals

    Imperial College used to demand German for science students, at least up to the 1980s so several decades after Germany was *the* scientific powerhouse. Whether Sunil had to sprechen sie Deutsch...
    Nein, aber ich habe Deutsch und Franzoesisch in Schule gelernt.

    Das beste Sunil!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Hang on, Burnham has wielded the dagger by running in this by election (and wanting to run in the previous one).

    A surprise vacancy arose in the seat where he lives, and he expressed an interest to stand, entirely innocent of any leadership considerations, I'm quite sure.
    Just like the last one when Andrew Gwynne conveniently accidentally resigned.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,896
    edited 10:55AM
    World Cup betting post.

    I think Group I is quite interesting. I almost think it's better to come second in that group than first. With that in mind, I can see Norway v Senegal being a draw. It would confirm Norway as qualified (and almost certainly in at least second place) and would give Senegal a very good chance of qualifying with a win against Iraq. Given Senegal are on -2 gd, three points might be tight for them so a point against Norway would be good.

    Current odds are around 41% a Norway win, 28% the draw, 32% a Senegal win. I've backed the draw and laid Norway as I wasn't that impressed with them last night so think Senegal more likely to win.

    As ever, DYOR.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,598

    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    11m
    If Reform loses in Makerfield tomorrow, esp if it loses badly, look out for recriminations spilling into the open
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    11m
    If Reform loses in Makerfield tomorrow, esp if it loses badly, look out for recriminations spilling into the open

    Does Rentoul know something or is he just stating the bleeding obvious?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    edited 11:08AM
    Speaking of Kemi Badenoch, we should not forget the two Scottish by-elections tomorrow. Kemi's fate might be determined by the Conservative showing in Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn's old seat, vacated after his election to Holyrood). Conservatives will expect a close second at least, and will be hoping for a win.

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,359

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,687


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    11m
    If Reform loses in Makerfield tomorrow, esp if it loses badly, look out for recriminations spilling into the open

    Big Roop is probably already scheming how to cost the Fukkers the Manchester Mayor bollocks.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,593

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Are you mothing while you are down there Mark? Be interesting to see how much cross over there is with UK species.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,687
    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    "Oh Penny... I LIKE her."
    -- Alan Gordon Partridge, 2023
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Are you mothing while you are down there Mark? Be interesting to see how much cross over there is with UK species.
    Very well turned out butterflies and moths in Portofino!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515

    Speaking of Kemi Badenoch, we should not forget the two Scottish by-elections tomorrow. Kemi's fate might be determined by the Conservative showing in Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn's old seat, vacated after his election to Holyrood). Conservatives will expect a close second at least, and will be hoping for a win.

    Markets seem to have gone a bit cold on the Tory chances in closing days?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,515

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Are you mothing while you are down there Mark? Be interesting to see how much cross over there is with UK species.
    Maybe a bit more than before, after he gets back?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,510

    HYUFD said:

    Streeting if he launches a leadership contest would certainly help Burnham assuming he wins the by election tomorrow and is eligible to run. As Burnham has said he will join a leadership challenge but not directly that he would challenge Starmer. Starmer has also made clear he would contest a leadership contest and it is different to the situation Brady was in as under Tory rules now a simple VONC can remove a leader but under Labour leadership rules a full leadership challenge and election is needed (indeed before the rules were changed under Hague even Thatcher contested the first round of the 1990 leadership election). Corbyn of course survived a 2016 leadership contest against Owen Smith even though most Labour MPs nominated his opponent. Starmer would also beat Streeting most likely and would hope to get some of his preferences against more leftwing Burnham

    If Streeting had the nominations wouldn't he have used them before Burnham was eligible? Suspect its all talk from him.
    Perhaps Burnham having to clarify his positions on several topics, when before he was a blank slate to be projected upon, has moved some MPs out of the Burnham camp into the Streeting one?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    Tory Deputy Chairmen can be particularly dull.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972

    Andy_JS said:

    It's very comforting to see a new opinion poll today putting the Greens down on 9%, their lowest for a long time.

    Not if one is a Green.
    Mexicans wear green at the footy!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,533

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Are you mothing while you are down there Mark? Be interesting to see how much cross over there is with UK species.
    Didn't bring a trap (not allowed by the Good Lady on this trip!). Maybe next time. To be honest, just enjoying what I'm seeing pottering about. The Owly Sulphur was nice (presuambly a close relative of the dragonflies and damselflies). The butterflies are very prolific - presumably the locals don't shoot them. The birds are sadly largely absent (lots of shotgun casings underfoot whereever you walk round here).

    The moths I am seeing tend to be things we see as rare migrants in the UK - Bright Wave for example being common here, but only seen in a few small locations in the UK. One of my chums is coming near here later in the year - I'll report back his findings.

    (I might light the house up like a Christmas tree on the final night....see what comes to the windows... Maybe get some hawkmoths?)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,533
    edited 11:34AM

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Superficially resembling a dragonfly, but more closely related to lacewings and ant-lions.
    That makes sense. Their larvae are apparently ferocious predators, as are ant-lions.

    (Ant-lion larvae are known as "doodlebugs". Which I didn't know...)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    IanB2 said:

    Speaking of Kemi Badenoch, we should not forget the two Scottish by-elections tomorrow. Kemi's fate might be determined by the Conservative showing in Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn's old seat, vacated after his election to Holyrood). Conservatives will expect a close second at least, and will be hoping for a win.

    Markets seem to have gone a bit cold on the Tory chances in closing days?
    It might be a reaction to Scotland's World Cup win enhancing the national spirit to the benefit of the SNP.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,533
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Lol

    I know the end of Trump has been predicted many times but he does look particularly fcuked at the moment, and he definitely isn't enjoying himself.
    I guess trying to govern effectively and making decisions with consequences is nowhere near as much fun as shitposting and plotting revenge on your enemies.
    Apparently, he is the Leader of the Free World.

    He's clearly been embarassed by the Iran "Epic Fury Fail" expedition. Probably realising those around him who don't hate his guts are spectacularly useless. A lonely place.
    Could equally be that, the moment the cameras appear, everyone else turns away for fear of the photo turning up at home and their being seen by their domestic voters as trying to cosy up to him?
    Are you suggesting there is a time when the cameras aren't on Trump?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,593

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Are you mothing while you are down there Mark? Be interesting to see how much cross over there is with UK species.
    Didn't bring a trap (not allowed by the Good Lady on this trip!). Maybe next time. To be honest, just enjoying what I'm seeing pottering about. The Owly Sulphur was nice (presuambly a close relative of the dragonflies and damselflies). The butterflies are very prolific - presumably the locals don't shoot them. The birds are sadly largely absent (lots of shotgun casings underfoot whereever you walk round here).

    The moths I am seeing tend to be things we see as rare migrants in the UK - Bright Wave for example being common here, but only seen in a few small locations in the UK. One of my chums is coming near here later in the year - I'll report back his findings.

    (I might light the house up like a Christmas tree on the final night....see what comes to the windows... Maybe get some hawkmoths?)
    Exellent. I have only had the trap out a couple of times so far this year as I am working away so much. Been a bit underwhelming so far to be honest.
  • STV surely means Labour hold
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,998

    New: Starmer starts rolling the pitch with his main argument against an immediate leadership contest - saying Burnham should help with the mayoral byelection.

    He tells me: "We're immediately tipped into a Manchester mayoral contest by-election, one of the biggest by-elections that we've ever fought, because of the scale of it.

    "And it's really important to my mind that the whole of the Labour Party and Labour movement focuses on that, which is the next most immediate task.

    "I don't think there should be a challenge. I think history, particularly the last government, shows that that isn't a successful way for a government to behave. But if there is a challenge, then I intend to fight.

    "I'm not going to walk away from that, and I've been clear and consistent about that."


    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2067148730118074847

    That's a level of transparency so profound it's akin to invisibility.
    I cannot criticise as I am regularly described as transparent as water.
    Not Thames Water ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,929
    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory
    I remember her with that sword. Wow. The view after that episode was she was on her way to the very top. But as yet it hasn't happened. She's gone backwards.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972
    Some lepidoptera p0rn for @MarqueeMark and @Richard_Tyndall

    Taken in da North Ilford Ghetto (Fairlop Waters) on Monday:


  • eekeek Posts: 34,058
    kinabalu said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory
    I remember her with that sword. Wow. The view after that episode was she was on her way to the very top. But as yet it hasn't happened. She's gone backwards.
    Leave Parliament and unless things get very desperate there is often no way back into Parliament.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    edited 12:11PM
    Why do BBC WATO continue to sane wash Trump? He is a gibbering idiot at the G7.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,342

    Why do BBC WATO continue to sane wash Trump? He is a gibbering idiot at the G7.

    They do it to annoy you.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,374
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Missed this from a few weeks ago.

    Reform's nominated leader for Kirklees council says she doesn't know what things like standing orders and amendments are.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c202ylr4j0jo

    That was covered quite widely when it happened around the 20th May (Telegraph & Argus, Mirror, Yorkshire Post), but TBF this is my end of the country, and I do try and track these. It may not make the right-aligned press.

    Two aspects of this caught my eye. This was after Councillor training in the week starting 11 May, ie before she said it *. And whether the attitude of Kemi to Conservatives working with other parties - the alternative choice was a Green as Leader of a coalition which the Tory group voted against - had an impact on prevention of a coalition after the Tory Councillor Adam Kent at Worcester was suspended from the party the previous week after working with Greens **?

    The "Huddersfield Hub" has a more detailed account, with some of the blow-by-blow:

    Reform UK, as the biggest party, hoped to take control but the opposition – the Greens, Kirklees Independents, the Conservatives, the Liberal Democrats, Holme Valley Independents and two other Independents had the numbers to elect a coalition led by Clr Cooper, IF they all voted together.

    The Conservatives voted against Clr Cooper and also refused to support Reform, ensuring both Clr Cooper and Clr Wood’s nominations were voted down.

    https://huddersfieldhub.co.uk/chaos-confusion-and-bewilderment-in-the-council-chamber-as-kirklees-council-fails-to-elect-a-leader/
    I clearly need to keep you all better informed :wink: .

    * https://www.instagram.com/p/DYpQf6ICjqU/
    ** https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgpyxw7l5no
    As a former Kirklees councillor I have skin in this game. As you imply the Conservatives are the key players here but that means supporting either Reform or the Green+ alliance. Remember that next May we will have defences for the 23 third place winners - of which 11 are Reform, Green 4, Ind 4, Con 2 and Lib Dem 2. If I were to offer political advice to the non-Reform parties it would be give Reform the leadership and then give them the dockyard hookers treatment next year. But they may not listen!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    Nigelb said:

    New: Starmer starts rolling the pitch with his main argument against an immediate leadership contest - saying Burnham should help with the mayoral byelection.

    He tells me: "We're immediately tipped into a Manchester mayoral contest by-election, one of the biggest by-elections that we've ever fought, because of the scale of it.

    "And it's really important to my mind that the whole of the Labour Party and Labour movement focuses on that, which is the next most immediate task.

    "I don't think there should be a challenge. I think history, particularly the last government, shows that that isn't a successful way for a government to behave. But if there is a challenge, then I intend to fight.

    "I'm not going to walk away from that, and I've been clear and consistent about that."


    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2067148730118074847

    That's a level of transparency so profound it's akin to invisibility.
    I cannot criticise as I am regularly described as transparent as water.
    Not Thames Water ?
    Very opaque. Particularly in relation to dividend payments over the last thirty years.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044
    edited 12:28PM
    Lady Brooke explaining to Angela Smith that with Labour dropping World oil stocks to an all time low "doesn't every drop (from new field licences in the North Sea) matter?"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,533

    A weird and wonderful rare creature on my nature walk in Liguria this morning - an Owly Sulphur, a member of the Owlfly group.


    Are you mothing while you are down there Mark? Be interesting to see how much cross over there is with UK species.
    Didn't bring a trap (not allowed by the Good Lady on this trip!). Maybe next time. To be honest, just enjoying what I'm seeing pottering about. The Owly Sulphur was nice (presuambly a close relative of the dragonflies and damselflies). The butterflies are very prolific - presumably the locals don't shoot them. The birds are sadly largely absent (lots of shotgun casings underfoot whereever you walk round here).

    The moths I am seeing tend to be things we see as rare migrants in the UK - Bright Wave for example being common here, but only seen in a few small locations in the UK. One of my chums is coming near here later in the year - I'll report back his findings.

    (I might light the house up like a Christmas tree on the final night....see what comes to the windows... Maybe get some hawkmoths?)
    Exellent. I have only had the trap out a couple of times so far this year as I am working away so much. Been a bit underwhelming so far to be honest.
    May was exceptional for moths - 225 species in the garden and very large numbers some nights - but before and after very underwhelming this year.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972

    Why do BBC WATO continue to sane wash Trump? He is a gibbering idiot at the G7.

    In what way were they sane-washing him?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,534

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,534

    Why do BBC WATO continue to sane wash Trump? He is a gibbering idiot at the G7.

    He is a gibbering idiot all the time Pete.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,094

    Why do BBC WATO continue to sane wash Trump? He is a gibbering idiot at the G7.

    In what way were they sane-washing him?
    Pretending he is the real President of the United States? Clearly we are all just bit parts in someone elses nightmare and this is all fictional.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,044

    Why do BBC WATO continue to sane wash Trump? He is a gibbering idiot at the G7.

    In what way were they sane-washing him?
    Explaining the pros of the Iran peace plan without reference to either the bung or that it is essentially the Obama plan (with an additional bung) and of course Trump doing his impression of Kenny Everett " bomb Russia, I mean Iran".
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,359

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Coutinho was somehow embarrassed and outed for her u turns by Lammy, on Coutinhos specialist subject.

    A shame the Tories can't give Jeremy Hunt, David Davis or even Rishi a bat from the Back Benches

    Of course they can't as it would expose the awful reality that Tory Back Benches are full of experience and competency while the front row is akin to a zombie intellectual desert
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,319
    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    Courtinho like Kemi are good at asking questions in an easy to understand style

    And looks like Starmer has lost the room even with labour supporters

    57/25 Starmer should stand down

    https://x.com/i/status/2067194732942438742
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,542
    Dura_Ace said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    "Oh Penny... I LIKE her."
    -- Alan Gordon Partridge, 2023
    “Oooh, I’d like to have it off with her’
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,319
    malcolmg said:

    Why do BBC WATO continue to sane wash Trump? He is a gibbering idiot at the G7.

    He is a gibbering idiot all the time Pete.
    He is a serious threat to everyone and is showing signs of considerable deterioration

    I have no idea how the US gets out of this mess he is causing
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,103
    edited 12:42PM
    HYUFD said:

    Inflation unchanged.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/17/uk-inflation-steady-despite-iran-conflict-fuel-prices

    Can someone remind me once again when it was we were supposed to be going cap in hand to the IMF?

    Inflation at 2.8% still above the Bank of England's 2% target</>
    As it was for the majority of the time during the recent 14 years of Tory rule.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,644
    edited 12:43PM
    On Makerfield, the bookies' odds have shifted quite significantly towards Labour in the last 48 hours, with Reform now quite a long shot. I've no idea what's caused this shift. But it may point to a comfortable win for Burnham, with quite a large majority.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,319
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Coutinho was somehow embarrassed and outed for her u turns by Lammy, on Coutinhos specialist subject.

    A shame the Tories can't give Jeremy Hunt, David Davis or even Rishi a bat from the Back Benches

    Of course they can't as it would expose the awful reality that Tory Back Benches are full of experience and competency while the front row is akin to a zombie intellectual desert
    And as for labours front bench you can remove 'akin to'
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,972
    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    "Oh Penny... I LIKE her."
    -- Alan Gordon Partridge, 2023
    “Oooh, I’d like to have it off with her’
    She looks OK.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,542

    Lady Brooke explaining to Angela Smith that with Labour dropping World oil stocks to an all time low "doesn't every drop (from new field licences in the North Sea) matter?"

    She’s right. We have a constrained supply chain with major risks going forward in spite of this MOU.

    We should look to do two things. Exploit oil and gas in all other markets including our own and move to alternatives and not just energy but viable scalable alternatives for oil and gas based products
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,542

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    "Oh Penny... I LIKE her."
    -- Alan Gordon Partridge, 2023
    “Oooh, I’d like to have it off with her’
    She looks OK.
    Oooh mince
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,340
    edited 12:52PM
    JLR announces tentative plans for US factory to build defenders (and presumably defender pickups, sans chicken tax).

    Odd they didn't pick Mexico.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,359

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Coutinho was somehow embarrassed and outed for her u turns by Lammy, on Coutinhos specialist subject.

    A shame the Tories can't give Jeremy Hunt, David Davis or even Rishi a bat from the Back Benches

    Of course they can't as it would expose the awful reality that Tory Back Benches are full of experience and competency while the front row is akin to a zombie intellectual desert
    And as for labours front bench you can remove 'akin to'
    No defence for the Tory Zombies then Big G... Very telling.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,534
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    "Oh Penny... I LIKE her."
    -- Alan Gordon Partridge, 2023
    “Oooh, I’d like to have it off with her’
    She looks OK.
    Oooh mince
    She is a big Chookie
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,319
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Coutinho was somehow embarrassed and outed for her u turns by Lammy, on Coutinhos specialist subject.

    A shame the Tories can't give Jeremy Hunt, David Davis or even Rishi a bat from the Back Benches

    Of course they can't as it would expose the awful reality that Tory Back Benches are full of experience and competency while the front row is akin to a zombie intellectual desert
    And as for labours front bench you can remove 'akin to'
    No defence for the Tory Zombies then Big G... Very telling.

    It is not Kemi or the conservative front bench who are entering civil war and they do have a leader all the way to 2029 and this must be so hard for you
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,359
    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FF43 said:

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2067147715763478998

    On leader net approval Badenoch hits a personal high at -1, almost breaking even, Davey is at -9, Farage at -14, Polanski -25 and Starmer is at the bottom of the list on -48.

    The other mystery of British politics, apart from Starmer being vaguely but profoundly hated, is what anyone sees in Kemi Badenoch.
    It's getting to you isn't it.
    I think most non-Conservatives think more power to her undiluted self-belief, elbow until the next GE. I would be very surprised if she has the wherewithal to become Prime Minister which means another five years of non- Conservative governments.

    Unfortunately the alternative might be even more conservative. Be careful what I wish for?
    The alternative should be an aging MP retiring, a by election and Penny Mordaunt parachuted in.

    A contest then between. Mordaunt and whoever the right flank could drag up.

    Penny is everything Badenoch isnt

    A good communicator
    An experienced negotiaor
    Personable
    An air of humility
    Open
    Honest
    Concilliatory

    Courtinho is quite good at PMQs. Certainly better than Badenoch. Although she has said some questionable stuff if I am remembering correctly.
    Courtinho is certainly good and one for future. Brixian is obviously not right in the tattie thinking that big turnip Mordaunt is anything other than totally useless.
    A very very good friend if Rishi Sunak apparently
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,856
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2026/jun/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-contest-andy-burnham-makerfield-byelection-wes-streeting-latest-news-updates

    Tories defend Vickers laughing at homophobic jokes in TV interview, saying he was just 'trying to be polite'
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,575
    IanB2 said:

    Speaking of Kemi Badenoch, we should not forget the two Scottish by-elections tomorrow. Kemi's fate might be determined by the Conservative showing in Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn's old seat, vacated after his election to Holyrood). Conservatives will expect a close second at least, and will be hoping for a win.

    Markets seem to have gone a bit cold on the Tory chances in closing days?
    Times Wireless caller said Aberdeen drowning in Tory leaflets; SNP only in last few days.
  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 466
    IanB2 said:

    Speaking of Kemi Badenoch, we should not forget the two Scottish by-elections tomorrow. Kemi's fate might be determined by the Conservative showing in Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn's old seat, vacated after his election to Holyrood). Conservatives will expect a close second at least, and will be hoping for a win.

    Markets seem to have gone a bit cold on the Tory chances in closing days?
    They are 4/1 on Bet365. Seems value to me, put a few £s on at that price. 7/4 to 3/1 elsewhere. Share of bets have trended towards SNP in recent days.
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