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Private polling klaxon – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,184
edited 8:34AM in General
Private polling klaxon – politicalbetting.com

EXC: Private constituency-wide polling in Makerfield seen by The i Paper shows Andy Burnham on 35%, Restore Britain on 13% and Reform UK on 24% ? https://t.co/uITJyPH5WW

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,842
    edited 8:38AM
    Damn

    The closure of the last thread seems to have vanished my last comment.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,879
    edited 8:38AM
    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452
    This sort of stuff may be why Restore seem to be doing well at Reform's expense:


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    Seems Suella Braverman and Robert Jenrick have a simple question to answer. Did they support the fast-track scheme for the alleged Belfast attacker. Or did they recognise it was jeopardising the British public, but simply stood by and did nothing.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2064967435761979904
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,007
    edited 8:44AM
    Can't help feeling that the pollsters are going to get their fingers burned with Restore. But maybe I am just out of date and virtual parties are now a thing.

    Personally, I suspect that a result like this is designed to bring possible defectors from Reform back into line.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397
    Even more delicious for Boro fans @TheScreamingEagles

    “ Wolves have sacked Rob Edwards after agreeing deal to bring in Cesar Peixoto as his replacement. Edwards first heard of his sacking after members of his family saw rumours of Peixoto’s appointment on social media and Edwards called the club to ask about the rumours. #wwfc”

    https://x.com/sportspeteo/status/2064959546829799533?s=61
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,277

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,041
    Sandpit said:

    Why AI output is getting dumber.

    Paper published in Nature, by Oxford, Cambs, Imperial researchers.

    https://x.com/heynavtoor/status/2064797676475187520

    You have noticed it. ChatGPT feels dumber than it used to. Your prompts that worked six months ago produce worse results now. The writing sounds flatter. The ideas sound safer. The internet itself feels like it is shrinking. Every article reads the same. Every email sounds the same. Every answer sounds like it was written by the same voice.

    You thought it was you. It is not you.

    Researchers at Oxford and Cambridge published a paper in Nature proving what is happening. They call it Model Collapse.

    Here is the mechanism in one sentence. AI trained on AI-generated data gets dumber every generation until it forgets what real human data looked like.

    And then there’s Fable 5.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781
    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,683
    edited 8:55AM
    Taz said:

    Even more delicious for Boro fans @TheScreamingEagles

    “ Wolves have sacked Rob Edwards after agreeing deal to bring in Cesar Peixoto as his replacement. Edwards first heard of his sacking after members of his family saw rumours of Peixoto’s appointment on social media and Edwards called the club to ask about the rumours. #wwfc”

    https://x.com/sportspeteo/status/2064959546829799533?s=61

    Classy club.

    A proper club like Liverpool did the sacking of Arne Slot the right way, he was informed first then the media was informed.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,964

    Sandpit said:

    Why AI output is getting dumber.

    Paper published in Nature, by Oxford, Cambs, Imperial researchers.

    https://x.com/heynavtoor/status/2064797676475187520

    You have noticed it. ChatGPT feels dumber than it used to. Your prompts that worked six months ago produce worse results now. The writing sounds flatter. The ideas sound safer. The internet itself feels like it is shrinking. Every article reads the same. Every email sounds the same. Every answer sounds like it was written by the same voice.

    You thought it was you. It is not you.

    Researchers at Oxford and Cambridge published a paper in Nature proving what is happening. They call it Model Collapse.

    Here is the mechanism in one sentence. AI trained on AI-generated data gets dumber every generation until it forgets what real human data looked like.

    And then there’s Fable 5.
    Twice the price of the version it's supposed to replaced and the reviews have definitely been meh...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,683
    Nigelb said:

    Damn

    The closure of the last thread seems to have vanished my last comment.

    Sorry.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,964
    Nigelb said:

    Damn

    The closure of the last thread seems to have vanished my last comment.

    Is closing threads down new as it seems to have some unintended consequences..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,631

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
    So you don’t like The Peace Process?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,966
    edited 8:51AM
    How do you lay 1000km of cable in the wrong place?

    Answer

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/06/10/germanys-hs2-delayed-five-years-engineering-blunder/
    It may have been posted before but it is mindboggling.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397
    edited 8:52AM
    Dupe
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,007
    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,942
    edited 8:54AM
    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    And Russia had signed a peace treaty 8 months ago on the WWI timeline.
    Commies more realistic than nationalist kleptocrat Putin, who'd have thunk?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,942
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Over before Christmas?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,001
    Sandpit said:

    Why AI output is getting dumber.

    Paper published in Nature, by Oxford, Cambs, Imperial researchers.

    https://x.com/heynavtoor/status/2064797676475187520

    You have noticed it. ChatGPT feels dumber than it used to. Your prompts that worked six months ago produce worse results now. The writing sounds flatter. The ideas sound safer. The internet itself feels like it is shrinking. Every article reads the same. Every email sounds the same. Every answer sounds like it was written by the same voice.

    You thought it was you. It is not you.

    Researchers at Oxford and Cambridge published a paper in Nature proving what is happening. They call it Model Collapse.

    Here is the mechanism in one sentence. AI trained on AI-generated data gets dumber every generation until it forgets what real human data looked like.

    I'm definitely getting better answers than I did six months ago. But yes at some point this is going to become an issue. The economic and social incentive to create and publish original data needs somehow to be maintained.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,007

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Over before Christmas?
    I think so but maybe I am being overly optimistic. The strain on Russia now, militarily and economically, is just unsustainable. Something has to give.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 22,117
    I'm sceptical - I only met one voter out of maybe 200 who was going Restore.

    On repeated canvassing, it's only people who express doubt who are canvassed multiple times, and they mostly appear to welcome it - perhaps just the traditional English politeness, but there's also an element of "someone is really listening to me". There's an element of fed-upness that appears in the final week, but still generally offered with an apologetic smile.

    But does it work? Mainly, I think, in eliminating parties who aren't doing it. I met numerous people who said "I usually vote X but they're not bothering this time". They're up for grabs, and are often quite glad to spend a minute talking it over.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781
    edited 9:02AM

    How do you lay 1000km of cable in the wrong place?

    Answer

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/06/10/germanys-hs2-delayed-five-years-engineering-blunder/
    It may have been posted before but it is mindboggling.

    I thought how can it take five years to re-lay cables, thinking they must be signal cables or electrical cables.

    But looking at the pictures, it appears to be the steel tensioning cables, that get buried in concrete and hold the whole track together.

    I guess it’s amusing to see that the Germans are now just as bad at railways and airports as the Brits, but still scant consolation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,989
    If this poll is correct and Burnham wins with Restore splitting the Reform vote then Reform letting in ex Tories will have gained some Leaver Conservatives but at a cost to Farage. The loss of some white nationalists to Reform
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,842
    .

    Nigelb said:

    Damn

    The closure of the last thread seems to have vanished my last comment.

    Sorry.
    It did bag a first, so swings and roundabouts..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Indeed.

    What’s also clear about this war, much more than others recently, is the speed of the increase in the state of technology.

    Crimea is now completely cut off from supply from the North, apart from one pontoon which will be gone by tomorrow. The only way in or out is now the Kerch Bridge, which isn’t going to last long if they have to start moving fuel on it. It’s already closed to lorries, and it appears the Ukranians are goading the Russians into sending a train of fuel tanks over the railway, with the inevitable outcome.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,631
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Over before Christmas?
    I think so but maybe I am being overly optimistic. The strain on Russia now, militarily and economically, is just unsustainable. Something has to give.
    The collapse is definitely starting to gain momentum in the last couple of months.

    It’s been said a thousand times that these things happen slowly until they happen quickly, and I think there’s now a sense in Ukraine that the Russian collapse is starting to happen quickly.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,817
    Taz said:

    Even more delicious for Boro fans @TheScreamingEagles

    “ Wolves have sacked Rob Edwards after agreeing deal to bring in Cesar Peixoto as his replacement. Edwards first heard of his sacking after members of his family saw rumours of Peixoto’s appointment on social media and Edwards called the club to ask about the rumours. #wwfc”

    https://x.com/sportspeteo/status/2064959546829799533?s=61

    Karma is the word, I believe.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,946
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Over before Christmas?
    I think so but maybe I am being overly optimistic. The strain on Russia now, militarily and economically, is just unsustainable. Something has to give.
    The collapse is definitely starting to gain momentum in the last couple of months.

    It’s been said a thousand times that these things happen slowly until they happen quickly, and I think there’s now a sense in Ukraine that the Russian collapse is starting to happen quickly.
    Certainly hope the Ukrainians can win, but I hope they're able to rapidly regain their own territory and not be subject to a stitch-up between Russia and the US that could cost them their own land.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,879

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
    So you don’t like The Peace Process?
    What Peace Process?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,065
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    I think there's also the point that nuclear weapons, which up until now have deterred war between the superpowers, have also made the west very cautious about escalating in Ukraine, so we've supplied just enough arms to prevent their defeat, but insufficient to defeat Putin.

    It's only with the development of domestic arms production, of medium and long range drones, that Ukraines has been able to take the fight to Russia.

    With a more substantial response in the first year of the war, it might already be over, and we might not have seen the recent rapid evolution of drone war at all.
    I think that’s a somewhat simplistic narrative. While there was concern around escalation for certain specific weapon systems, how much the West supplied Ukraine had many factors behind it. Chiefly, Western electorates, while sympathetic to Ukraine, haven’t been willing necessarily to spend too much money or suffer too much economic harm. That was the main driver of how many weapons were sent.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,149
    edited 9:21AM

    I'm sceptical - I only met one voter out of maybe 200 who was going Restore.

    On repeated canvassing, it's only people who express doubt who are canvassed multiple times, and they mostly appear to welcome it - perhaps just the traditional English politeness, but there's also an element of "someone is really listening to me". There's an element of fed-upness that appears in the final week, but still generally offered with an apologetic smile.

    But does it work? Mainly, I think, in eliminating parties who aren't doing it. I met numerous people who said "I usually vote X but they're not bothering this time". They're up for grabs, and are often quite glad to spend a minute talking it over.

    Morning ,PBers. Yes, but this fed-upness is partly what created the disaster of Brexit.

    That's what makes this attention-grabbing frustration even more dangerious if it falls into the hands of Restore, a party with a lot of ex-BNP members led by a country squire fascist.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,817
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    I think there's also the point that nuclear weapons, which up until now have deterred war between the superpowers, have also made the west very cautious about escalating in Ukraine, so we've supplied just enough arms to prevent their defeat, but insufficient to defeat Putin.

    It's only with the development of domestic arms production, of medium and long range drones, that Ukraines has been able to take the fight to Russia.

    With a more substantial response in the first year of the war, it might already be over, and we might not have seen the recent rapid evolution of drone war at all.
    Whether intentionally or not the Western strategy of giving Ukraine just enough assistance has maximised the damage to Russia. Had they been quickly pushed out (and there was real chance of doing that in the autumn of 2022) Russia would not have sustained the catastrophic losses that have been inflicted on it.

    The downside, of course, is the huge cost that it has also inflicted on Ukraine.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,277

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
    So you don’t like The Peace Process?
    Why is burning black people out of their homes part of the peace process? It should be a normal public order issue. A molotov is a lethal weapon and people should have the right to have their homes and families defended with lethal force.

    I presume the terrorised residents will just be rehoused at considerable public expense, and letting homes be burnt is seen as normal for NI.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,279

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    Isn't that just "Genesis of the Daleks", by Terry Nation?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,989
    HYUFD said:

    If this poll is correct and Burnham wins with Restore splitting the Reform vote then Reform letting in ex Tories will have gained some Leaver Conservatives but at a cost to Farage. The loss of some white nationalists to Reform

    Or rather the loss of some white nationalists to Restore
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,934

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    And Russia had signed a peace treaty 8 months ago on the WWI timeline.
    Commies more realistic than nationalist kleptocrat Putin, who'd have thunk?
    Wars used to be things that kept even the maddest rulers in touch with reality. Putin and Trump are unusual in how detached from reality they appear to be.

    Though given how much they have exploited the "nothing is true and everything is possible" dynamic, it sort of serves them right.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781
    edited 9:20AM
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    I think there's also the point that nuclear weapons, which up until now have deterred war between the superpowers, have also made the west very cautious about escalating in Ukraine, so we've supplied just enough arms to prevent their defeat, but insufficient to defeat Putin.

    It's only with the development of domestic arms production, of medium and long range drones, that Ukraines has been able to take the fight to Russia.

    With a more substantial response in the first year of the war, it might already be over, and we might not have seen the recent rapid evolution of drone war at all.
    Yep, especially the nervousness of Western leaders in 2022. Credit where it’s due to Boris Johnson for being four square behind Ukraine when it’s wasn’t necessarily the popular position among his peers.

    There’s a lot of lessons from this war, starting with the West having way fewer weapons than they need, and with insufficient capacity to ramp production quickly.

    On the other hand, the Russians now have no conventional army left. There’s no tanks, no APCs, almost no MRLS.

    We all have a lot to learn from the Ukrainian defence industry when this is over.

    We see the same happening in Iran and the Gulf, that small and cheap drones can now take out very expensive radars and missiles, or use up expensive air defences designed for enemy planes and ICBMs.

    The Americans can build only 50-60 Patriot AD missiles per month, and the process for each one is two years. That’s totally inadequate in a modern war.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,277
    Maybe of interest to MattW. I have just given a disabled friend a lift to the station. He has a foldable electric wheelchair. On the plus side, it is easy to collapse it and to lock and unlock the wheels. On the minus side, there doesn't seem to be any way of locking it closed and there are no built-in handles, making it quite difficult to manhandle it in and out of a car. Don't they think about the helpers?

    Also, there is no stowage other than hanging a rucksack on the back, which can be easily nicked.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,277

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    Isn't that just "Genesis of the Daleks", by Terry Nation?
    WW1 ended because Germany was out of young men - the 1918 draft* had effectively run out. And America joined the war with a limitless supply of teenagers.

    *I lose track of when you're supposed to spell it with an f and when it's gh
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,331
    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling that the pollsters are going to get their fingers burned with Restore. But maybe I am just out of date and virtual parties are now a thing.

    Personally, I suspect that a result like this is designed to bring possible defectors from Reform back into line.

    Obviously the question of whether Burnham can win the by-election is extremely consequential, and has a bearing on the future of Starmer as PM, but the subplot of how many votes Restore will peel off Reform's total is fascinating (if also a bit frightening in terms of what it says about how fast the right-wing in Britain is radicalising).

    It might be entertaining now for anti-Faragists to watch his vote get split by a further-right party, but if Farage doesn't find it so funny, walks away from politics in a huff, and Reform then collapses in a heap - will it be so amusing when it is Restore cleaning up on the right-wing of British politics?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,515

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
    So you don’t like The Peace Process?
    Why is burning black people out of their homes part of the peace process? It should be a normal public order issue. A molotov is a lethal weapon and people should have the right to have their homes and families defended with lethal force.

    I presume the terrorised residents will just be rehoused at considerable public expense, and letting homes be burnt is seen as normal for NI.
    Loyalist thugs had decades of practice doing this to Catholics. Although apparently some Catholics came down to join in this time around. So perhaps we can count it as a victory for cross-community relations.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,285

    Good Morning one and all.

    Can I mention a personal celebration, please. Mrs C and I married 64 years ago today!

    Card from Chaz and Camilla next year then. Did you get one for your 60th?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    Isn't that just "Genesis of the Daleks", by Terry Nation?
    Indeed
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,958
    That poll must have a lot of don't knows. Assuming that that's going to be a high turnout, which way they lean will probably be the most decisive factor, so there's a danger for Reform in trying too hard to squeeze Restore.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,657



    It might be entertaining now for anti-Faragists to watch his vote get split by a further-right party, but if Farage doesn't find it so funny, walks away from politics in a huff, and Reform then collapses in a heap - will it be so amusing when it is Restore cleaning up on the right-wing of British politics?

    Better them than the Kembots.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,331
    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    The Peninsular War lasted almost six years.

    I understand that many Ukrainians regard the war as having lasted twelve years already, since the 27th February 2014 Russian military occupation of Crimea.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,149
    edited 9:42AM
    Dura_Ace said:



    It might be entertaining now for anti-Faragists to watch his vote get split by a further-right party, but if Farage doesn't find it so funny, walks away from politics in a huff, and Reform then collapses in a heap - will it be so amusing when it is Restore cleaning up on the right-wing of British politics?

    Better them than the Kembots.
    Not if they shut down all dissent and deport ten million people. That is their plan.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,364
    HYUFD said:

    If this poll is correct and Burnham wins with Restore splitting the Reform vote then Reform letting in ex Tories will have gained some Leaver Conservatives but at a cost to Farage. The loss of some white nationalists to Reform

    The good news for you Tories is that the party is much more electable with the likes of Jenrick and Braverman out of it. Someone else's problem now...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,232
    edited 9:43AM

    carnforth said:

    Good Morning one and all.

    Can I mention a personal celebration, please. Mrs C and I married 64 years ago today!

    Card from Chaz and Camilla next year then. Did you get one for your 60th?
    Yes; from Liz of course! You have to ask for them; eldest grandson did the job for our 60th. The postman was quite excited about delivering it.
    Actually our daughter asked for us, and also our postie was quite excited and apparently has to certify the delivery to the palace

    Though we would have preferred the late Queen had carried on a wee bit longer
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397

    carnforth said:

    Good Morning one and all.

    Can I mention a personal celebration, please. Mrs C and I married 64 years ago today!

    Card from Chaz and Camilla next year then. Did you get one for your 60th?
    Yes; from Liz of course! You have to ask for them; eldest grandson did the job for our 60th. The postman was quite excited about delivering it.
    Actually our daughter asked for us, and also our postie was quite excited and apparently has to certify the delivery to the palace
    My wife is making the same request for the in laws
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,364
    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781

    carnforth said:

    Good Morning one and all.

    Can I mention a personal celebration, please. Mrs C and I married 64 years ago today!

    Card from Chaz and Camilla next year then. Did you get one for your 60th?
    Yes; from Liz of course! You have to ask for them; eldest grandson did the job for our 60th. The postman was quite excited about delivering it.

    I wouldn't say we've never had a cross word but we've always been able to kiss and make up before going to sleep that night!
    Happy anniversary!

    Wifey and I only have 53 years to go to that mark, by which time we’ll be be aged 101!
  • ScarpiaScarpia Posts: 107
    On thread - this is straight out of the Agents' Playbook. Take a look at your canvass figures, apply a few tweaks and what-ifs and hey presto, you get a figure where you are in close competition with your main rival to show squeezable voters what they must do.
    The report admits that this was straight out of the Burnham campaign.
    It's the press release equivalent of a dodgy bar chart!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,470

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    Grandson Two was in a similar situation before he got a work visa for three years in Australia. He's got a job there, but he's halfway through his visa period and isn't sure what's going to happen next.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,472

    It was always a massive error to bring Tories into Reform. Pb noted this.

    Well, those Tories for sure...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,331
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Both sides are planning for the conflict lasting considerably longer than a few more months. Ukraine expects to see its cities and energy infrastructure bombarded again next winter, for example, and is making preparations on that basis.

    Russia will find ways to adapt and respond to Ukraine's recent successes. Expedients will be deployed to keep the war economy running.

    An early end to the war only happens when Putin decides to bank the territorial gains made since 2022, and there's no way of predicting his psychology. Some people were speculating that he was near death in 2022, which turned out to be wildly optimistic. One presumes that predicting someone's psychological state of mind is harder than their physical health.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,232
    Seems amazing that this hasn't happened earlier.

    A primary school with just two pupils is to close at the end of the summer term.

    Ysgol Y Garreg in Penrhyndeudraeth, Gwynedd, currently has no pupils in nursery, reception or years one to five.

    Its remaining two Year six pupils are due to start secondary school in September.

    Cyngor Gwynedd's cabinet voted unanimously to close the school on 31 August, saying it could not ignore the "seriousness of the situation".

    The council said falling pupil numbers across the local authority had made the decision unavoidable, despite the school's long history at the heart of the community.

    Dewi Jones, cabinet member for education, said the proposal was one of the most difficult decisions he had faced.

    "Nobody goes into education in order to close schools," he said.

    "Our ambition is to see schools thriving, children succeeding and communities staying strong."

    He paid tribute to the staff, governors, parents and community, saying Ysgol Y Garreg had served the area faithfully for over a century.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,510

    HYUFD said:

    If this poll is correct and Burnham wins with Restore splitting the Reform vote then Reform letting in ex Tories will have gained some Leaver Conservatives but at a cost to Farage. The loss of some white nationalists to Reform

    The good news for you Tories is that the party is much more electable with the likes of Jenrick and Braverman out of it. Someone else's problem now...
    While they might be electable, May shows that not many are actually being elected.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    The Peninsular War lasted almost six years.

    I understand that many Ukrainians regard the war as having lasted twelve years already, since the 27th February 2014 Russian military occupation of Crimea.
    Yes many Ukranians will say the war has been ongoing since 2014.

    The WWI comparison today is from 24th Feb 2022, when the “SMO” started with the assault on Kiyv.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,122

    Good Morning one and all.

    Can I mention a personal celebration, please. Mrs C and I married 64 years ago today!

    Congratulations to you and Mrs. OKC. I hope you have a good few more years to celebrate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,842

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    I think there's also the point that nuclear weapons, which up until now have deterred war between the superpowers, have also made the west very cautious about escalating in Ukraine, so we've supplied just enough arms to prevent their defeat, but insufficient to defeat Putin.

    It's only with the development of domestic arms production, of medium and long range drones, that Ukraines has been able to take the fight to Russia.

    With a more substantial response in the first year of the war, it might already be over, and we might not have seen the recent rapid evolution of drone war at all.
    I think that’s a somewhat simplistic narrative. While there was concern around escalation for certain specific weapon systems, how much the West supplied Ukraine had many factors behind it. Chiefly, Western electorates, while sympathetic to Ukraine, haven’t been willing necessarily to spend too much money or suffer too much economic harm. That was the main driver of how many weapons were sent.
    I disagree.
    They might well have spent significantly less if they smashed the invasion at the outset.

    And the rebuilding costs would be far lower.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781
    edited 9:59AM
    Today’s good news story.

    There’s a load of Europeans doing road trips around the US in conjunction with the World Cup, and American Twitter is all over them, they’re making local news programs.

    One example, of many in the past couple of days.

    https://x.com/secduffy/status/2064770890080870556
    https://x.com/arbys/status/2064811736390123646
    https://x.com/freddyla7/status/2064421329747550335
    https://x.com/freddyla7/status/2064587316077744334 <<—this German tourist is getting tens of thousands of likes on every post.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,364

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    Grandson Two was in a similar situation before he got a work visa for three years in Australia. He's got a job there, but he's halfway through his visa period and isn't sure what's going to happen next.
    Its a concern! Many congratulations on your anniversary btw
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,631
    The Second Variety…

    Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time - https://www.newscientist.com/article/2529849-fully-autonomous-drones-have-killed-human-soldiers-for-the-first-time/
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    Anyone managing to get FU out of recruiter has obtained a level of engagement from them that is more than most manage.
    Always smile when recruiters on LinkedIn complain about being ghosted by candidates and businesses. The pile in and ‘fuck you’ responses are a joy.

    They’re awful human beings.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,828

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    I really can't understand Burnham's decision to stir up the WASPI nest. It can only end badly, either by raising their hopes and then dashing them, or spending even more cash on boomers when it's the younger generation that should be the focus of attention and resources. Crass isn't the word for it - needs something much stronger.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,842
    edited 10:02AM
    .

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    Which is likely to prompt a fuck society response from a very large number of young people.
    That is bad news for all of us.

    This was quite telling. These two parties have VERY little in common other than offering fantasy solutions:
    ..While he doesn’t “particularly agree with any political party”, he believes only two, the Green party and Reform UK, “seem to have an agenda for young people”..

    The political mainstream needs to get its act together.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
    So you don’t like The Peace Process?
    Why is burning black people out of their homes part of the peace process? It should be a normal public order issue. A molotov is a lethal weapon and people should have the right to have their homes and families defended with lethal force.

    I presume the terrorised residents will just be rehoused at considerable public expense, and letting homes be burnt is seen as normal for NI.
    Loyalist thugs had decades of practice doing this to Catholics. Although apparently some Catholics came down to join in this time around. So perhaps we can count it as a victory for cross-community relations.
    Indeed and there were never any catholic thugs doing the same.

    The six counties is rotten on both sides
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,683
    edited 10:02AM
    Thief was heard muttering while trying to steal car

    “Come on Locke, fuckin’ well open, you Kant!”


    Car thief died after philopshy professor put him in headlock

    Burglar attacked academic like a ‘trapped wild animal’ before cardiac arrest, inquest told


    A thief died after a professor put him in a headlock, an inquest has heard.

    Daniel Smith, 35, tried to use a car belonging to Charles Thame, a philosophy professor, as a getaway vehicle – but the academic climbed into the passenger seat and put him in a headlock.

    The thief was running from police from an unconnected burglary in Axminster, Devon, in July 2022, when he stole Prof Thame’s car keys from his unlocked house, according to The Times.

    As Smith tried to drive away in the vehicle, Prof Thame, who teaches at Thammasat University, Bangkok, Thailand, jumped into the passenger seat.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/10/car-thief-died-professor-headlock-burglary-devon/
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    If only we had a govt that encouraged recruitment of younger people through its policies. Still the unions and the labour movement wanted these policies they can live with the consequences. They were warned. In spite of what Harry Eccles thinks
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,470

    Seems amazing that this hasn't happened earlier.

    A primary school with just two pupils is to close at the end of the summer term.

    Ysgol Y Garreg in Penrhyndeudraeth, Gwynedd, currently has no pupils in nursery, reception or years one to five.

    Its remaining two Year six pupils are due to start secondary school in September.

    Cyngor Gwynedd's cabinet voted unanimously to close the school on 31 August, saying it could not ignore the "seriousness of the situation".

    The council said falling pupil numbers across the local authority had made the decision unavoidable, despite the school's long history at the heart of the community.

    Dewi Jones, cabinet member for education, said the proposal was one of the most difficult decisions he had faced.

    "Nobody goes into education in order to close schools," he said.

    "Our ambition is to see schools thriving, children succeeding and communities staying strong."

    He paid tribute to the staff, governors, parents and community, saying Ysgol Y Garreg had served the area faithfully for over a century.

    I fear we're going to see more of this. The number of children is, in many areas, falling.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    Which is likely to prompt a fuck society response from a very large number of young people.
    That is bad news for all of us.

    This was quite telling. These two parties have VERY little in common other than offering fantasy solutions:
    ..While he doesn’t “particularly agree with any political party”, he believes only two, the Green party and Reform UK, “seem to have an agenda for young people”..

    The political mainstream needs to get its act together.
    Yet earlier you’re posting supporting policies that help bring this about purely to own Reform
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,842
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
    So you don’t like The Peace Process?
    Why is burning black people out of their homes part of the peace process? It should be a normal public order issue. A molotov is a lethal weapon and people should have the right to have their homes and families defended with lethal force.

    I presume the terrorised residents will just be rehoused at considerable public expense, and letting homes be burnt is seen as normal for NI.
    Loyalist thugs had decades of practice doing this to Catholics. Although apparently some Catholics came down to join in this time around. So perhaps we can count it as a victory for cross-community relations.
    Indeed and there were never any catholic thugs doing the same.

    The six counties is rotten on both sides
    It tends to be loyalist areas, since that's where more of the housing is.
    Catholic areas are historically more crowded.

    I'm open to being corrected by those with greater knowledge of NI, but that's probably more significant than any ideological differences.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,331

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Over before Christmas?
    I think so but maybe I am being overly optimistic. The strain on Russia now, militarily and economically, is just unsustainable. Something has to give.
    The collapse is definitely starting to gain momentum in the last couple of months.

    It’s been said a thousand times that these things happen slowly until they happen quickly, and I think there’s now a sense in Ukraine that the Russian collapse is starting to happen quickly.
    Certainly hope the Ukrainians can win, but I hope they're able to rapidly regain their own territory and not be subject to a stitch-up between Russia and the US that could cost them their own land.
    This is what makes the recent developments with respect to Ukraine attempting to isolate Crimea particularly interesting.

    Russia and Putin obviously have their maximalist objectives - the whole Ukrainian Black Sea coast annexed to Russia, a rump Ukrainian client state, etc - but you can envisage circumstances in which they will accept those are not achievable by continuing the hot phase of the war for now, and settle temporarily for a ceasefire on the current front lines, even though doing so would leave large parts of the territory that they claim as part of Russia in Ukrainian hands. This is one of the factors that makes it hard for Ukraine to regain large quantities of territory. As soon as Putin accepts that Ukraine have the upper hand, and that Russia cannot regain it without a pause in the fighting, Russia can declare a ceasefire and Ukraine would be under pressure from Europe and its war-weary population to accept it. But while Russia might be able to accept Ukraine in possession of parts of Donetsk, the same could not be said about Crimea.

    If Ukraine can cut off supplies to Crimea it would make a Ukrainian operation to land and supply troops in part of Crimea that much more feasible, as the Russian troops in Crimea would have limited supplies with which to mount a defence. If part of Crimea is held by Ukraine then it becomes a lot harder for Russia to accept a ceasefire, and that creates more of an opportunity for the war to continue until Ukraine has regained much more territory.

    This sounds wildly ambitious on Ukraine's part, and could easily become a massive failure. But Ukraine showed with their attack into Kursk Oblast a willingness to take bold action. I can't otherwise make much sense of a particular focus on disrupting supplies to Crimea, rather than to the southern front in general. Ukraine has recently mounted a special forces raid on the Russian occupied Kinburn spit, which could be seen as an operation to test equipment and tactics for a larger scale assault on Crimea.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,934
    edited 10:12AM

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    I really can't understand Burnham's decision to stir up the WASPI nest. It can only end badly, either by raising their hopes and then dashing them, or spending even more cash on boomers when it's the younger generation that should be the focus of attention and resources. Crass isn't the word for it - needs something much stronger.
    As the profile linked to earlier said, Burnham wants/needs to be popular. So he tells his immediate audience what they want to hear.

    Starmer, dismal as he is, is prepared to sometimes say no to people. He doesn't always stick to it, but he is prepared to say it. Which is preferable to what looks like it's coming next
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,277
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    The Peninsular War lasted almost six years.

    I understand that many Ukrainians regard the war as having lasted twelve years already, since the 27th February 2014 Russian military occupation of Crimea.
    Yes many Ukranians will say the war has been ongoing since 2014.

    The WWI comparison today is from 24th Feb 2022, when the “SMO” started with the assault on Kiyv.
    World War 2 arguably started in 1937 or even 1931vwith the Japanese invasion of Manchuria
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781
    edited 10:12AM

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    Over before Christmas?
    I think so but maybe I am being overly optimistic. The strain on Russia now, militarily and economically, is just unsustainable. Something has to give.
    The collapse is definitely starting to gain momentum in the last couple of months.

    It’s been said a thousand times that these things happen slowly until they happen quickly, and I think there’s now a sense in Ukraine that the Russian collapse is starting to happen quickly.
    Certainly hope the Ukrainians can win, but I hope they're able to rapidly regain their own territory and not be subject to a stitch-up between Russia and the US that could cost them their own land.
    This is what makes the recent developments with respect to Ukraine attempting to isolate Crimea particularly interesting.

    Russia and Putin obviously have their maximalist objectives - the whole Ukrainian Black Sea coast annexed to Russia, a rump Ukrainian client state, etc - but you can envisage circumstances in which they will accept those are not achievable by continuing the hot phase of the war for now, and settle temporarily for a ceasefire on the current front lines, even though doing so would leave large parts of the territory that they claim as part of Russia in Ukrainian hands. This is one of the factors that makes it hard for Ukraine to regain large quantities of territory. As soon as Putin accepts that Ukraine have the upper hand, and that Russia cannot regain it without a pause in the fighting, Russia can declare a ceasefire and Ukraine would be under pressure from Europe and its war-weary population to accept it. But while Russia might be able to accept Ukraine in possession of parts of Donetsk, the same could not be said about Crimea.

    If Ukraine can cut off supplies to Crimea it would make a Ukrainian operation to land and supply troops in part of Crimea that much more feasible, as the Russian troops in Crimea would have limited supplies with which to mount a defence. If part of Crimea is held by Ukraine then it becomes a lot harder for Russia to accept a ceasefire, and that creates more of an opportunity for the war to continue until Ukraine has regained much more territory.

    This sounds wildly ambitious on Ukraine's part, and could easily become a massive failure. But Ukraine showed with their attack into Kursk Oblast a willingness to take bold action. I can't otherwise make much sense of a particular focus on disrupting supplies to Crimea, rather than to the southern front in general. Ukraine has recently mounted a special forces raid on the Russian occupied Kinburn spit, which could be seen as an operation to test equipment and tactics for a larger scale assault on Crimea.
    If you’re a regular Russian in Crimea, you want to be over the Kerch bridge by tomorrow if you can get fuel for your car.

    If you’re a Russian solider in Crimea, you know you’re a few weeks away from sending people to find animals in fields for dinner, and wondering where the next ammo is coming from.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,331

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    I think there's also the point that nuclear weapons, which up until now have deterred war between the superpowers, have also made the west very cautious about escalating in Ukraine, so we've supplied just enough arms to prevent their defeat, but insufficient to defeat Putin.

    It's only with the development of domestic arms production, of medium and long range drones, that Ukraines has been able to take the fight to Russia.

    With a more substantial response in the first year of the war, it might already be over, and we might not have seen the recent rapid evolution of drone war at all.
    I think that’s a somewhat simplistic narrative. While there was concern around escalation for certain specific weapon systems, how much the West supplied Ukraine had many factors behind it. Chiefly, Western electorates, while sympathetic to Ukraine, haven’t been willing necessarily to spend too much money or suffer too much economic harm. That was the main driver of how many weapons were sent.
    I don't think that's true. Total British military support for Ukraine to date is valued at £13bn - £3bn a year. A rounding error when it comes to British government spending. Had that been doubled to £6bn a year I don't think the British public would have noticed (except that the war might be won by now).

    The West also underestimated Russian willingness to fight a long war while suffering high casualties, so they didn't think it was necessary to provide enough support for Ukraine to win, only enough for Ukraine to continue to fight for as long as it takes for Russia to call it quits.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,781

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    One of the things that seems so remarkable looking back, compared to modern conflicts, is how short both WW1 and WW2 were. These days we seem to contrive stalemates that drag on forever or sequelae that are even worse, see Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Ukraine.

    On Ukraine, there is no doubt that the war has moved in their favour after a period when collapse did seem possible. Russia is being destroyed, not just on the battlefield but across much of the country. Its hard to see this lasting much more than a few more months.
    You should investigate “Brokenback War” - see Herman Kahn.

    WWI ended because the Germans surrendered when they were losing to the point that an invasion of Germany itself was inevitable.

    WWII ended because the Allies captured Berlin, Rome, Tokyo etc.

    In a Brokenback War, final victory is impossible. Technical capabilities are steadily degraded - hence the crack about WWIV being fought with stick and stones - but the war continues.
    I think there's also the point that nuclear weapons, which up until now have deterred war between the superpowers, have also made the west very cautious about escalating in Ukraine, so we've supplied just enough arms to prevent their defeat, but insufficient to defeat Putin.

    It's only with the development of domestic arms production, of medium and long range drones, that Ukraines has been able to take the fight to Russia.

    With a more substantial response in the first year of the war, it might already be over, and we might not have seen the recent rapid evolution of drone war at all.
    I think that’s a somewhat simplistic narrative. While there was concern around escalation for certain specific weapon systems, how much the West supplied Ukraine had many factors behind it. Chiefly, Western electorates, while sympathetic to Ukraine, haven’t been willing necessarily to spend too much money or suffer too much economic harm. That was the main driver of how many weapons were sent.
    I don't think that's true. Total British military support for Ukraine to date is valued at £13bn - £3bn a year. A rounding error when it comes to British government spending. Had that been doubled to £6bn a year I don't think the British public would have noticed (except that the war might be won by now).

    The West also underestimated Russian willingness to fight a long war while suffering high casualties, so they didn't think it was necessary to provide enough support for Ukraine to win, only enough for Ukraine to continue to fight for as long as it takes for Russia to call it quits.
    Also, how much is the UK spending per year on Ukranian refugees in the UK? That spending will reduce significantly once the war is over.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,279

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Today is the day that the war in Ukraine has outlasted World War I, the Great War.

    Ukraine is still fighting back, and in the last few months actually making headway at a cost of over a thousand Russian soldiers a day.

    The Peninsular War lasted almost six years.

    I understand that many Ukrainians regard the war as having lasted twelve years already, since the 27th February 2014 Russian military occupation of Crimea.
    Yes many Ukranians will say the war has been ongoing since 2014.

    The WWI comparison today is from 24th Feb 2022, when the “SMO” started with the assault on Kiyv.
    World War 2 arguably started in 1937 or even 1931vwith the Japanese invasion of Manchuria
    If you consider the Hundred Years war as 1337 to about 1460, then arguably WW1 and WW2 are the same conflict.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,279

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Good Morning one and all.

    Can I mention a personal celebration, please. Mrs C and I married 64 years ago today!

    Card from Chaz and Camilla next year then. Did you get one for your 60th?
    Yes; from Liz of course! You have to ask for them; eldest grandson did the job for our 60th. The postman was quite excited about delivering it.

    I wouldn't say we've never had a cross word but we've always been able to kiss and make up before going to sleep that night!
    Happy anniversary!

    Wifey and I only have 53 years to go to that mark, by which time we’ll be be aged 101!
    59 to go for me (by which time I'll be 135), but the honeymoon sense of (re)marrying late in life is lovely. I've had a very interesting and varied life but intense, durable love is a delightful surprise, and rather puts things like winning elections in the shade. Politics has retreated to being an interesting hobby...
    Does your current wife no about Nick Palmer day?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,470

    How do you lay 1000km of cable in the wrong place?

    Answer

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/06/10/germanys-hs2-delayed-five-years-engineering-blunder/
    It may have been posted before but it is mindboggling.

    Sunk cost fallacy?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,946

    Good Morning one and all.

    Can I mention a personal celebration, please. Mrs C and I married 64 years ago today!

    Congrats, King (and Queen) Cole :)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452

    Lucy Fisher
    @LOS_Fisher

    NEW: Andy Burnham faces Labour backlash over support for Waspi women

    One government figure decried Burnham’s hint about a major compensation spending pledge as “pathetic”, adding: “He can’t say no to anyone.”

    A Starmer ally suggested Burnham’s move was Corbynite, adding: “Keir literally won by not being this version of the Labour party.”

    https://x.com/LOS_Fisher/status/2064995072681148608
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,515
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stand down lads, not only was the unrest in Belfast not pogroms, they weren’t even riots.

    https://x.com/stopfundinghate/status/2064766706858205624?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interestingly even Rupert Murdoch's paper/the paper of record is calling it a pogrom.

    Belfast riots: mobs burn immigrant homes in modern-day pogrom

    African carers, Ukrainians and a Romani family were among those forced to flee as masked men with hit lists and petrol bombs went door to door targeting foreigners


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/belfast-riots-protests-burning-attack-knife-6pktjfpnj
    Expulsion from their homes by violence and terror, which is what happened, pretty well fits the definition.

    The only difference from the original pogroms is that the victims aren't Jewish, and so far it's isolated instances rather than a regular occurrence.
    More like Bombay Street in the '60s:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-burning-of-bombay-street-the-start-of-the-combustible-years-1.3986347
    The police should just shoot them.

    You have the right to defend home and family with lethal force. In a civil society, you should expect the forces of the state to do it for you.

    Just put out a message - anyone on the streets of Belfast with a molotov will he shot - and do it.

    They are Prods so it shouldn't be too controversial
    So you don’t like The Peace Process?
    Why is burning black people out of their homes part of the peace process? It should be a normal public order issue. A molotov is a lethal weapon and people should have the right to have their homes and families defended with lethal force.

    I presume the terrorised residents will just be rehoused at considerable public expense, and letting homes be burnt is seen as normal for NI.
    Loyalist thugs had decades of practice doing this to Catholics. Although apparently some Catholics came down to join in this time around. So perhaps we can count it as a victory for cross-community relations.
    Indeed and there were never any catholic thugs doing the same.

    The six counties is rotten on both sides
    Certainly was plenty on both sides historically, I was referencing what happened this week which was in the Loyalist areas as I understand it. I think historically while both sides got up to it there was more on the Protestant side because they had the better housing (so more Catholics wanted to move to Protestant areas than vice versa) and the Catholics had better demographics so were also more likely to want to expand out of their traditional areas, as they suffered from overcrowding. The Loyalists were also granted more leeway by the RUC, who were almost entirely Protestant.
    Generally speaking the Loyalist terror groups were more focused on sectarian killings of Catholics while Republican terror groups focused more on killing members of the security forces. Both sides were awful but they were not quite the same. The Republicans viewed themselves as being at war with the British state while Loyalists viewed themselves as protecting themselves against Catholic encroachment. This meant that one side was more nakedly sectarian than the other.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,346
    Unless Burnham finds a magic money tree then he’s destined to disappoint a lot of people .

    He seems to be going on about de-industrialisation . Exactly what is he going to do to combat that with no money and we’re living in a different world now .

    Indeed the concern is that voters will be even more merciless towards him . Having promised big changes there’s only so much that his better communication and apparent northern charm can cover up for the reality of the current financial situation.

  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 110
    edited 10:32AM

    Seems amazing that this hasn't happened earlier.

    A primary school with just two pupils is to close at the end of the summer term.

    Ysgol Y Garreg in Penrhyndeudraeth, Gwynedd, currently has no pupils in nursery, reception or years one to five.

    Its remaining two Year six pupils are due to start secondary school in September.

    Cyngor Gwynedd's cabinet voted unanimously to close the school on 31 August, saying it could not ignore the "seriousness of the situation".

    The council said falling pupil numbers across the local authority had made the decision unavoidable, despite the school's long history at the heart of the community.

    Dewi Jones, cabinet member for education, said the proposal was one of the most difficult decisions he had faced.

    "Nobody goes into education in order to close schools," he said.

    "Our ambition is to see schools thriving, children succeeding and communities staying strong."

    He paid tribute to the staff, governors, parents and community, saying Ysgol Y Garreg had served the area faithfully for over a century.

    I fear we're going to see more of this. The number of children is, in many areas, falling.
    This has been an issue in Highland for decades: a Council with an area larger than Wales and roughly the same population of Blackpool!!!


    The problem here its that even if it has no children now, there might be some in a year or to so we mothball the school not close it.

    It might seem daft to keep a school open with only a handful of kids, but if the alternative is busing five and six year olds for over at hour twice a day, sometimes it's the least worst option.

    Peter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,842
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a depressing read.
    A serious problem far more worthy of attention - and investment - than the WASPI women.

    About 1 million 16- to 24-year-olds are not in employment, education or training – and the obstacles they face are bigger than ever. Those unemployed for a year or more explain how they are coping
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/11/young-ambitious-out-of-work-unemployment

    My eldest was one of them. First class English degree. A year applying for everything and anything. Not even getting replies for most applications. Is now completing a Masters in HR and I have created a job for them in my business. Its *dire* out there. Catastrophic. And not just the lack of jobs, its the Fuck You attitude of recruiters that really damages them.
    Which is likely to prompt a fuck society response from a very large number of young people.
    That is bad news for all of us.

    This was quite telling. These two parties have VERY little in common other than offering fantasy solutions:
    ..While he doesn’t “particularly agree with any political party”, he believes only two, the Green party and Reform UK, “seem to have an agenda for young people”..

    The political mainstream needs to get its act together.
    Yet earlier you’re posting supporting policies that help bring this about purely to own Reform
    Posting someone else's tweet, which makes a fair rhetorical point about the internal contradiction of Reform's claims, doesn't mean I support that poster (whom I'd never previously heard of).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,602
    edited 10:37AM
    Nigelb said:

    Damn

    The closure of the last thread seems to have vanished my last comment.

    That deserves a clerihew.

    Nigel joined PB whereupon
    He promptly vented his spleen thereon
    The threaded header intervened and anon
    His emanation evanished and was gone.
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