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Shortly there will NOT be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority

SystemSystem Posts: 13,170
edited June 3 in General
Shortly there will NOT be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority– politicalbetting.com

As I predicted at the weekend (and before) Andy Burnham, iff he wins the Makerfield by-election and becomes Prime Minister, would not call a snap general election, why risk a majority of over 170 for the next three years for at best being largest party at a snap general election.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333
    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,923

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    The mission should be to run the country not stop reform . Labour playing politics has got the country to a right mess .
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    The mission should be to run the country not stop reform . Labour playing politics has got the country to a right mess .
    Phew, at last we can now pinpoint the exact reason for the country being in a right mess.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    Liz Truss really paid attention to the manifesto when she was in power.

    Governments can do what they want provided they have a large enough majority. 2 things worth considering

    1) circumstances change so things that made sense at an election may not make sense now. On your logic you need an election before resolving a bond / government finance issue
    2) if we don’t like how a government works we can punish them at the next election - see the Tories in 2024 or the Lib Dems in 2015
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,860

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    As a favour to those craving the excitement.

    And it's always good to see 'iff' used. It's a really useful concept.
  • lloyds0lloyds0 Posts: 6
    Hmm, see what he’s saying 3/4 mts in when he’s still got momentum behind his government because sure as eggs are eggs he’ll know the shine will come off because he’s severely constrained in what he can do differently under Starmer’s manifesto. He’ll know the bounce is temporary….
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,331
    edited June 3
    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    No tax increases was not in the manifesto - it was a answer to a question - and that question could have been answered far better
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    No tax increases was not in the manifesto - it was a answer to a question - and that question could have been answered far better
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,572

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I really hope this becomes a serious news story in 2027 because the 20th anniversary of this journalistic masterpiece would be too rich a coincidence to ignore.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,186
    lloyds0 said:

    Hmm, see what he’s saying 3/4 mts in when he’s still got momentum behind his government because sure as eggs are eggs he’ll know the shine will come off because he’s severely constrained in what he can do differently under Starmer’s manifesto. He’ll know the bounce is temporary….

    Day 1 he'll say

    I'M RIPPING UP STARMER'S MANIFESTO.

    What can other Parties do, call a vote if no confidence LOL

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,572

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    Reform seem remarkably sticky in the 25-29% range.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,024
    I see that Ukrainian drones have been flying unimpeded over St Petersburg
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    I see that Ukrainian drones have been flying unimpeded over St Petersburg

    Trump's going to be pissed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I really hope this becomes a serious news story in 2027 because the 20th anniversary of this journalistic masterpiece would be too rich a coincidence to ignore.
    I am trying my best.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    How do you contradict a blank sheet of paper?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    After noting Philp's intervention yesterday make that RefCon 51, Labour 22. A 29 point Labour deficit is horrific.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    Reform seem remarkably sticky in the 25-29% range.
    But...Reform, Labour and the Conservatives all in the 20s.

    Game on.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    He should probably bung in something about the state confiscating your social care costs too.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373
    edited June 3

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnham Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    edited June 3

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    After noting Philp's intervention yesterday make that RefCon 51, Labour 22. A 29 point Labour deficit is horrific.
    I am loving the Venn diagram of people outraged by the rozzers getting attacked at Manchester Airport (and people were found guilty) and also defending 'concerned patriots' attacking the rozzers in Southampton.

    I wonder if Nigel Farage will bring private prosecutions against the rioters in Southampton.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170
    Well that’s summer over then…
    https://bbc.co.uk/weather/articles/clypk7j0qqdo
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    What is very popular is raising the tax take overall, so ther eis more to spend on hospitals, dentists, potholes, Mt Pet Project.

    The only way to deliver that is to attract the world's millionaires and billionaires and corporations, then get them all to pay us some tax.

    Labour's route is instead to stand and wave wealth goodbye at Heathrow.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    edited June 3
    Duplicate
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    I see Reform having chosen a thin-skinned, pseudo-intellectual academic dressed by his mum as candidate for Gorton & Denton have somewhat over-compensated in the opposite direction.


    #r4today Reform UK's candidate for Makerfield Robert Kenyon: "... i dont know what nationalistic pish means"; Chris Mason: "you tell me, you wrote it"...oh dear

    https://x.com/tyrelwallace/status/2062069359120384135?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    I see that Ukrainian drones have been flying unimpeded over St Petersburg

    Trump's going to be pissed.
    Everything in the world is now designed by God to make Trump angry. His last years are going to be truly wretched, despite all that wealth and all that power.

    Heh.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    St. Petersberg looks nice at this time of year! 🔥

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2062028490061287788

    Putin’s due on stage shortly to open the SPEIC conference, in front of half the Politbureau and hundreds of international attendees. Ukraine was kind enough to put on a fireworks show for them all!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,352

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I really hope this becomes a serious news story in 2027 because the 20th anniversary of this journalistic masterpiece would be too rich a coincidence to ignore.
    I am trying my best.
    But you are apparently drawing a different conclusion from that episode than many others?

    My understanding is both George Osborne and Ed Balls think it was a mistake for Labour not to call a snap election in 2007.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908
    Got to say some people are not the brightest.

    Just had a marketing email from one of the local pubs claiming that I’ve never had a pint as cheap as the £4.99 offer they currently have on Madri (not that I would touch it if other options are available).

    Um what about in 2024 when it was £3.90?

    Equally never compete on price as Wetherspoons will always win
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    Anything that permanently cements Farage into the House of Commons with dozens and dozens of MPs is going to be incredibly unpopular. His party funded by short money. Your taxes.

    Own it, LibDems.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    After noting Philp's intervention yesterday make that RefCon 51, Labour 22. A 29 point Labour deficit is horrific.
    I am loving the Venn diagram of people outraged by the rozzers getting attacked at Manchester Airport (and people were found guilty) and also defending 'concerned patriots' attacking the rozzers in Southampton.

    I wonder if Nigel Farage will bring private prosecutions against the rioters in Southampton.
    Kemi started the day with a brilliant takedown of Farage yesterday. By the early afternoon Conservative opposition to the wickedly opportunistic toad had all but evaporated.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673

    Well that’s summer over then…
    https://bbc.co.uk/weather/articles/clypk7j0qqdo

    1st Test at Lord’s starts tomorrow, that’s usually a good rain generator!
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,242
    So all this Burnham stuff is all about a) Burnham b) keeping the job of a few hundred MPs and c) trashing a manifesto that won the election a couple of years ago. Given the ease at which governments and policies are dispensed with over the last decade, why bother voting at all?

    Democracy is now a fig leaf for a quasi-Big Brother show.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,627
    Sandpit said:

    St. Petersberg looks nice at this time of year! 🔥

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2062028490061287788

    Putin’s due on stage shortly to open the SPEIC conference, in front of half the Politbureau and hundreds of international attendees. Ukraine was kind enough to put on a fireworks show for them all!

    Rubs in that Z's promise to allow the Moscow victory parade last month to take place without disruption was not bluster

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    St. Petersberg looks nice at this time of year! 🔥

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2062028490061287788

    Putin’s due on stage shortly to open the SPEIC conference, in front of half the Politbureau and hundreds of international attendees. Ukraine was kind enough to put on a fireworks show for them all!

    Rubs in that Z's promise to allow the Moscow victory parade last month to take place without disruption was not bluster

    Yup, Putin now knows that Ukraine can do what they want pretty much anywhere West of the Urals.

    I’m half waiting for them to do a symbolic reenactment of four decades ago by landing a drone in Red Square.
    https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-story-of-mathias-rust-the-german-teenager-who-humiliated-the-soviet-war-machine-by-landing-his-cessna-172-in-moscows-red-square/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,024
    Battlebus said:

    So all this Burnham stuff is all about a) Burnham b) keeping the job of a few hundred MPs and c) trashing a manifesto that won the election a couple of years ago. Given the ease at which governments and policies are dispensed with over the last decade, why bother voting at all?

    Democracy is now a fig leaf for a quasi-Big Brother show.

    Perhaps but let’s not pretend Reform would be any different.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,024

    Battlebus said:

    So all this Burnham stuff is all about a) Burnham b) keeping the job of a few hundred MPs and c) trashing a manifesto that won the election a couple of years ago. Given the ease at which governments and policies are dispensed with over the last decade, why bother voting at all?

    Democracy is now a fig leaf for a quasi-Big Brother show.

    Perhaps but let’s not pretend Reform would be any different.
    Westminster government has always been an elected dictatorship, judged at the ballot box after a maximum of 5 years.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    He should probably bung in something about the state confiscating your social care costs too.
    Given that ploy worked so well for Theresa May...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,594

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    How do you contradict a blank sheet of paper?
    It's not hard to rip up, though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,750
    I would love it if Reform win Makerfield, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,186
    Battlebus said:

    So all this Burnham stuff is all about a) Burnham b) keeping the job of a few hundred MPs and c) trashing a manifesto that won the election a couple of years ago. Given the ease at which governments and policies are dispensed with over the last decade, why bother voting at all?

    Democracy is now a fig leaf for a quasi-Big Brother show.

    A manifesto for any Party in Government is an aspiration.

    Circumstances can render it null and void

    War
    Disease
    Climate Crisis
    Economic Crisis
    Global Dictators
    Etc

    It's not the Magna Carta

    It's got to be, should be, must allowed to be flexible.

    Any Government can be challenged by a Vote of No Confidence...

    I suspect if Burnham wins he will new commitments and explain why....

    This notion a manifesto is written in stone is a fucking classic right wing trope when right not in power, something they plainly ignore themselves when on power





  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,750

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    He should probably bung in something about the state confiscating your social care costs too.
    Given that ploy worked so well for Theresa May...
    May 317 seats
    Corbyn 262 seats

    :innocent:
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,082

    I see that Ukrainian drones have been flying unimpeded over St Petersburg

    Trump's going to be pissed.
    Everything in the world is now designed by God to make Trump angry. His last years are going to be truly wretched, despite all that wealth and all that power.

    Heh.
    When Trump dies, God will have the last laugh. He will send him to heaven, where he won’t know anybody and will be surrounded by his enemies.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,186
    Mr Farage may live to regret his Farage Riots call if he ever becomes PM

    Because whilst he will not face planned riots like his thugs organise, I think it's pretty safe to guarantee he will face the biggest wave of peaceful civil disobedience, withdrawal of labour and protest that this Country has seen since the 20s and 30s...make no mistake about that.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,082
    edited June 3
    I want governments of all parties to govern in the best interests of the country, not slavishly adhere to manifesto promises when they are no longer relevant.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,674
    Morning all :)

    Back to "teaching Stodge about oil prices" this morning.

    I read one of the reasons we have yet to plunge over the much touted abyss is "demand destruction" - now I was schooled by @Malmesbury about "inelasticity of demand" a few weeks ago but it does appear sales of fuel have been down about 10-12% since the Gulf crisis (do we call it a war?) began.

    There are other developments - it seems non-Gulf suppliers have been stepping up exports - the US is exporting more oil than ever and as our primary supplier of oil, it probably explains why we've avoided shortages thus far - the bluff old cynic in me might also argue this is one of the reasons for Washington being quite happy with the status quo. The more they export at higher prices, the better for American oil companies who I suspect (and I may be wrong) are supporters of the Trump Administration.

    In every war, the first thing you have to do is follow the money.

    We also have countries going through their Strategic Reserves which presumably vary considerably in size and therefore longevity but there will come a point when the choke on demand through Hormuz will impact as our old friends supply and demand come to the table. Now, it's summer and the demand for oil is presumably lower than it is in winter (do we rely on renewables to provide the leccy to keep the air conditioning going in the next heatwave?) though for the 15% who live south of the Equator winter is here but at a global level, what level does increased demand in New Zealand have?

    IF the reserves are depleted and demand cannot be suppressed much further due to inelasticity, the competition for what oil is out there from the US and others is likely to be intense leading to higher prices and presumably shortages so rather than stepping back from the abyss, the abyss is moving towards us....

    How am I doing?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    Could have happened years ago had Cameron not sabotaged it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Back to "teaching Stodge about oil prices" this morning.

    I read one of the reasons we have yet to plunge over the much touted abyss is "demand destruction" - now I was schooled by @Malmesbury about "inelasticity of demand" a few weeks ago but it does appear sales of fuel have been down about 10-12% since the Gulf crisis (do we call it a war?) began.

    There are other developments - it seems non-Gulf suppliers have been stepping up exports - the US is exporting more oil than ever and as our primary supplier of oil, it probably explains why we've avoided shortages thus far - the bluff old cynic in me might also argue this is one of the reasons for Washington being quite happy with the status quo. The more they export at higher prices, the better for American oil companies who I suspect (and I may be wrong) are supporters of the Trump Administration.

    In every war, the first thing you have to do is follow the money.

    We also have countries going through their Strategic Reserves which presumably vary considerably in size and therefore longevity but there will come a point when the choke on demand through Hormuz will impact as our old friends supply and demand come to the table. Now, it's summer and the demand for oil is presumably lower than it is in winter (do we rely on renewables to provide the leccy to keep the air conditioning going in the next heatwave?) though for the 15% who live south of the Equator winter is here but at a global level, what level does increased demand in New Zealand have?

    IF the reserves are depleted and demand cannot be suppressed much further due to inelasticity, the competition for what oil is out there from the US and others is likely to be intense leading to higher prices and presumably shortages so rather than stepping back from the abyss, the abyss is moving towards us....

    How am I doing?

    You need to watch out for the US significantly restricting exports after the summer.

    They have elections at the beginning of November, and nothing swings votes in the US as much as gas (petrol) prices.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,242
    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    So all this Burnham stuff is all about a) Burnham b) keeping the job of a few hundred MPs and c) trashing a manifesto that won the election a couple of years ago. Given the ease at which governments and policies are dispensed with over the last decade, why bother voting at all?

    Democracy is now a fig leaf for a quasi-Big Brother show.

    A manifesto for any Party in Government is an aspiration.

    Circumstances can render it null and void

    War
    Disease
    Climate Crisis
    Economic Crisis
    Global Dictators
    Etc

    It's not the Magna Carta

    It's got to be, should be, must allowed to be flexible.

    Any Government can be challenged by a Vote of No Confidence...

    I suspect if Burnham wins he will new commitments and explain why....

    This notion a manifesto is written in stone is a fucking classic right wing trope when right not in power, something they plainly ignore themselves when on power





    Taking your analogy further. We should not believe politicians. Their promises are worthless and voting is a symbolic indication of the stupidity of voters.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,750

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    2011 referendum:

    No 2 AV 68%
    Yes 2 AV 32%

    :innocent:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    Sandpit said:
    Someone needs to give Z the locations of all those submarines being built, and naval ships.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,493

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    When did you join the Labour Party?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579
    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    The day the government starts putting drugs in the water supply is the day my family starts drinking bottled water. Completely idiotic idea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,594
    edited June 3

    MattW said:

    Will these be the Farage or Yusuf riots?

    BRITAIN IS BROKEN 🇬🇧
    @BROKENBRITAIN0
    🚨BREAKING: IT HAS ALL KICKED OFF IN SOUTHAMPTON 🇬🇧

    THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE CURRENTLY ATTEMPTING TO STORM THE POLICE STATION RIGHT NOW AT THE PROTEST FOR HENRY NOWAK

    THIS IS GOING TO BLOW ⚠️

    @UKSploosh

    https://x.com/BROKENBRITAIN0/status/2061858311704629443?s=20

    It is at least interesting that Yaxley-Lennon and Farage and others are now treating a British-Pole as "white". Obviously they are entirely cynical, are playing the US white nationalist "racism against white people" meme and are weaponising this for their own political gain - which is not a surprise in any way, as that is how they do politics.

    Robinson accused Hampshire police of institutional racism, saying: “If Henry wasn’t white, he wouldn’t have been handcuffed.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/02/protesters-clash-with-police-in-southampton-over-henry-nowak

    Farage's previous position reflected in a Times headline from 2015:
    "Farage: I prefer Indians to Poles, they abide by the law"
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/farage-i-prefer-indians-to-poles-they-abide-by-the-law-mj2hhbc092t

    I'd say they are both trying to create a summer of rioting, just as per last time. Farage is in a Trump-like mess for things he does not want anyone to notice, and needs distractions.

    I'd be quite interested to know what Rupert Lowe's expulsion policy says about members of the murder victims family.
    I wonder who Farage meant by ‘Indians’?
    The white nationalist table of acceptable brown people is fluid. Sorry Sikhs, you’ve tumbled down the Farage Blackshorts national league (southern division).
    The precise background of the participants in the awful events wasn't salient in the police's actions, so whilst it must be fun (if you like that sort of thing) to pick holes in Farage's previous statements about ethnicity, it's completely irrelevant to his main point, which is that the victim died in handcuffs (tragically he was probably done for anyway) because he was white. I don't see that this is deniable in any way. Furthermore, it has been growingly apparent for some time that this inherent bias is deliberate policy - it is in the training manuals.
    The IOPC are carrying out an investigation into what happened. I don’t believe we yet know with any definitiveness why the police acted as they did. Have you seen any interview with the police officers involved?

    The police appear to have assumed Digwa was the victim and Nowak the criminal, but we don’t know that that was because one was white and one was brown. The same events might have played out had they been of different ethnicities.

    It is ironic that people are rushing to an assumption about what happened in a case where the police got it wrong by rushing to an assumption about what happened. What happened definitely needs investigating, and that is happening. We could wait to hear what is found.
    Whatever their motivations, it is fairly clear that they breached basic protocols simply dismissing the claim of someone on the ground claiming to be injured (potentially very seriously so), and handcuffing them.

    Handcuffing is a use of force, and must be capable of objective justification; it's not automatic or necessary for an arrest.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    After noting Philp's intervention yesterday make that RefCon 51, Labour 22. A 29 point Labour deficit is horrific.
    From the tactical voter point of view it's Reform 29, liberal and social democrats 34 + up to about 15 from sane Tories and Greens. Which will be a wining position for the Not Reform party in the next election.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    Could have happened years ago had Cameron not sabotaged it.
    I think you overestimate Cameron's ability at sabotage.

    And underestimate the LibDems offer to the voters of a turd.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,452
    rkrkrk said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I really hope this becomes a serious news story in 2027 because the 20th anniversary of this journalistic masterpiece would be too rich a coincidence to ignore.
    I am trying my best.
    But you are apparently drawing a different conclusion from that episode than many others?

    My understanding is both George Osborne and Ed Balls think it was a mistake for Labour not to call a snap election in 2007.
    So it was definitely not a mistake.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    The mission should be to run the country not stop reform . Labour playing politics has got the country to a right mess .
    Exactly

    Country first, Party political interest second.

    If they focussed on running the country and did a half decent job then Reform will be neutered.
  • Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    2011 referendum:

    No 2 AV 68%
    Yes 2 AV 32%

    :innocent:
    Why do you always post like this?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    Battlebus said:

    So all this Burnham stuff is all about a) Burnham b) keeping the job of a few hundred MPs and c) trashing a manifesto that won the election a couple of years ago. Given the ease at which governments and policies are dispensed with over the last decade, why bother voting at all?

    Democracy is now a fig leaf for a quasi-Big Brother show.

    What would you like to happen? This badly injured government limping on it's road to nowhere? If we're lucky this might give the government a chance to reset under new management. The alternative is a fractured government with a realistic possibility of a new racist government taking over in the reasonably near future.

    I've got somewhere else to live but God help all those who will have to live under these creatures some of whom we saw in action yesterday
  • I would love it if Reform win Makerfield, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!

    And I still think balance of probabilities Reform will win. The bigger danger for Nigel is after the election if Reform does win. If he claims it as a Reform win with no respect to either the Conservatives or Reform then he will be a fool. Unfortunately he probably is.

    Serious respect to Burnham if he does win though, just can't see where he can get the votes even if LD and Green are fully squeezed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,594
    Brixian59 said:

    Battlebus said:

    So all this Burnham stuff is all about a) Burnham b) keeping the job of a few hundred MPs and c) trashing a manifesto that won the election a couple of years ago. Given the ease at which governments and policies are dispensed with over the last decade, why bother voting at all?

    Democracy is now a fig leaf for a quasi-Big Brother show.

    A manifesto for any Party in Government is an aspiration.

    Circumstances can render it null and void

    War
    Disease
    Climate Crisis
    Economic Crisis
    Global Dictators
    Etc

    It's not the Magna Carta

    It's got to be, should be, must allowed to be flexible.

    Any Government can be challenged by a Vote of No Confidence...

    I suspect if Burnham wins he will new commitments and explain why....

    This notion a manifesto is written in stone is a fucking classic right wing trope when right not in power, something they plainly ignore themselves when on power

    One of those rare occasions where I agree with you.
    The electorate is perfectly entitled to take umbrage at blatant manifesto breaches (and often do so).
    Their recourse lies at the next election.

    That is how it's always been.

    The real offence is that, thanks to the vagaries of FPTP, we now seem doomed to be governed by large majorities, voted for by only a relatively small section of the electorate.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    Taz said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    The mission should be to run the country not stop reform . Labour playing politics has got the country to a right mess .
    Exactly

    Country first, Party political interest second.

    If they focussed on running the country and did a half decent job then Reform will be neutered.
    As they were advised by Peter Mandeslon:

    [03/05/2025, 05:15:55] Pat McFadden: But how do we fight Reform?
    [03/05/2025, 06:05:48] Pat McFadden: And what do we give people to rally round?
    [03/05/2025, 08:17:08] Peter Mandelson: Fight Reform by being Successful Labour not Blue Labour ie through policy delivery notably in turning economy round. You rally people round winning for Britain.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    MaxPB said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    The day the government starts putting drugs in the water supply is the day my family starts drinking bottled water. Completely idiotic idea.
    Presumably in London you get the drugs from the previous 4 or 7 (or whatever) people who have consumed and expelled the tap water you are drinking ! :smile:

    There won't be weight-loss drugs in the water, since too many medical conditions contra-indicate.
  • Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,501
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Back to "teaching Stodge about oil prices" this morning.

    I read one of the reasons we have yet to plunge over the much touted abyss is "demand destruction" - now I was schooled by @Malmesbury about "inelasticity of demand" a few weeks ago but it does appear sales of fuel have been down about 10-12% since the Gulf crisis (do we call it a war?) began.

    There are other developments - it seems non-Gulf suppliers have been stepping up exports - the US is exporting more oil than ever and as our primary supplier of oil, it probably explains why we've avoided shortages thus far - the bluff old cynic in me might also argue this is one of the reasons for Washington being quite happy with the status quo. The more they export at higher prices, the better for American oil companies who I suspect (and I may be wrong) are supporters of the Trump Administration.

    In every war, the first thing you have to do is follow the money.

    We also have countries going through their Strategic Reserves which presumably vary considerably in size and therefore longevity but there will come a point when the choke on demand through Hormuz will impact as our old friends supply and demand come to the table. Now, it's summer and the demand for oil is presumably lower than it is in winter (do we rely on renewables to provide the leccy to keep the air conditioning going in the next heatwave?) though for the 15% who live south of the Equator winter is here but at a global level, what level does increased demand in New Zealand have?

    IF the reserves are depleted and demand cannot be suppressed much further due to inelasticity, the competition for what oil is out there from the US and others is likely to be intense leading to higher prices and presumably shortages so rather than stepping back from the abyss, the abyss is moving towards us....

    How am I doing?

    One issue which I imagine is relevant is how much of oil production is used for:

    Transportation
    Electricity production
    Industrial purposes

    I'd say that there is quite a bit of scope still available for UK domestic vehicle petrol/diesel use reduction (albeit with likely electoral effects).

    But how big a proportion of UK oil consumption that is I have no idea.

    And I suspect that many 'experts' are not as knowledgeable as they think.

    We are not after all a couple of months into a de facto lockdown from fuel shortage as per one prediction.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128

    I see Reform having chosen a thin-skinned, pseudo-intellectual academic dressed by his mum as candidate for Gorton & Denton have somewhat over-compensated in the opposite direction.


    #r4today Reform UK's candidate for Makerfield Robert Kenyon: "... i dont know what nationalistic pish means"; Chris Mason: "you tell me, you wrote it"...oh dear

    https://x.com/tyrelwallace/status/2062069359120384135?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That should be run on a loop and played out from billboards everytime the name FARAGE or REFORM is mentioned.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,851
    If Burnham wins the Makerfield by election it will likely be only narrowly and polls show a Burnham led Labouir would at best only win most seats in a hung parliament not a majority. Burnham if he returned to parliament may therefore not even have been sure of being nominated to stand for the Labour leadership by enough Labour MPs given 100-200 of them would be forecast to lose their seats even with Burnham
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086

    Taz said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    The mission should be to run the country not stop reform . Labour playing politics has got the country to a right mess .
    Exactly

    Country first, Party political interest second.

    If they focussed on running the country and did a half decent job then Reform will be neutered.
    As they were advised by Peter Mandeslon:

    [03/05/2025, 05:15:55] Pat McFadden: But how do we fight Reform?
    [03/05/2025, 06:05:48] Pat McFadden: And what do we give people to rally round?
    [03/05/2025, 08:17:08] Peter Mandelson: Fight Reform by being Successful Labour not Blue Labour ie through policy delivery notably in turning economy round. You rally people round winning for Britain.
    He’s right, of course. He won’t be listened to but he’s absolutely right.

    In spite of the PB view that all Reform supporters are beyond the pale, lowlife, trash, most really just want a govt that works for them whoever the party.

    The same applies to the Labour voters who’ve fled the other way. To the Greens.

    I don’t think Labour get this nor Burnham. The talk is already of changing the electoral system to their advantage. But they need to be careful as it may not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,851

    I would love it if Reform win Makerfield, just to see the look on Andy Burnham's face. Love it!

    And I still think balance of probabilities Reform will win. The bigger danger for Nigel is after the election if Reform does win. If he claims it as a Reform win with no respect to either the Conservatives or Reform then he will be a fool. Unfortunately he probably is.

    Serious respect to Burnham if he does win though, just can't see where he can get the votes even if LD and Green are fully squeezed.
    Restore, the by election polls show if Burnham does win it will be from Restore taking Reform votes
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Another positive reason for PR.

    I’d suspect PR would be bad for all of the three main parties in the UK and there’d be an emergence of several other parties across the spectrum.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,674

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Possibly but it wouldn't be much better for the Conservatives, would it?

    The chances of a Conservative majority would be nil which would mean having to "do deals" with other parties perhaps the Liberal Democrats and others to have a share in the Coalition Government.

    What would probably happen under any kind of PR system is analogous to what we have now - to use the parlance from Europe, a "red" bloc of parties recognisably what some on here still quaintly call "the left" and a "blue" bloc of what others (equally quaintly) call "the right" and a few parties straddling the middle switching periodically between the one and the other.

    Each Government would be a minority coalition relying on support from other parties outside the Government.

    I can almost feel the sense of horror from some on here as I'm typing this - wonderful
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,501
    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    Could have happened years ago had Cameron not sabotaged it.
    I thought the country rejected it?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    edited June 3
    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,851
    stodge said:

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Possibly but it wouldn't be much better for the Conservatives, would it?

    The chances of a Conservative majority would be nil which would mean having to "do deals" with other parties perhaps the Liberal Democrats and others to have a share in the Coalition Government.

    What would probably happen under any kind of PR system is analogous to what we have now - to use the parlance from Europe, a "red" bloc of parties recognisably what some on here still quaintly call "the left" and a "blue" bloc of what others (equally quaintly) call "the right" and a few parties straddling the middle switching periodically between the one and the other.

    Each Government would be a minority coalition relying on support from other parties outside the Government.

    I can almost feel the sense of horror from some on here as I'm typing this - wonderful
    PR would rule out a Reform majority though
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128

    I see Reform having chosen a thin-skinned, pseudo-intellectual academic dressed by his mum as candidate for Gorton & Denton have somewhat over-compensated in the opposite direction.


    #r4today Reform UK's candidate for Makerfield Robert Kenyon: "... i dont know what nationalistic pish means"; Chris Mason: "you tell me, you wrote it"...oh dear

    https://x.com/tyrelwallace/status/2062069359120384135?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    You've been kind to him. You've used the only fifteen seconds out of a three minute interview that is even vaguely coherent
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,674
    Taz said:

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Another positive reason for PR.

    I’d suspect PR would be bad for all of the three main parties in the UK and there’d be an emergence of several other parties across the spectrum.
    That's NOT actually what tends to happen.

    You'll either get a recognisable set of "left" and "right" parties as you see in Scandinavia and elsewhere or perhaps the emergence of "individual" parties. You could have a "Boris Johnson" list for example or a "Rupert Lowe" list where people vote for the individual rather than the party.

    I do agree you could see "new" parties emerge as existing ones fragment. The LDs could split between a classically Liberal grouping (think Orange Bookers) and a Social Liberal Party - one would sit squarely with the "right" group of parties, the other more on the "left" side.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170
    Taz said:

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Another positive reason for PR.

    I’d suspect PR would be bad for all of the three main parties in the UK and there’d be an emergence of several other parties across the spectrum.
    I always understood the split to be this: (a) with FPTP you have a small number of large parties that are internal coalitions (Tory Wets, Harder Right Wing Thatcherites, or on the Left - Socialists, Communists and the soft Left). And it tends to produce decisive wins for one or other of the big ones.

    (b) With PR you get more, smaller parties that are more idealogically more narrow and these lead to coalitions AFTER the election.

    Arguably we have arrived at the point of (b) without a change to the voting system. This led to a ridiculously skewed vote share vs seats at the last election (Greens and LD had similar vote share but a very different seat outcome, Labour had a pretty poor vote share for a winning party but a huge majority of seats).

    So unless politics goes back to the larger party model, we really ought to change the voting method, or we will continue to see 'unfair' majorities. People broadly seemed happy in 2024 as it was the Tories getting kicked out and Change UK sorry Labour that came in, but if similar happens again favouring the racists then the country will not be a happy place.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    The day the government starts putting drugs in the water supply is the day my family starts drinking bottled water. Completely idiotic idea.
    Presumably in London you get the drugs from the previous 4 or 7 (or whatever) people who have consumed and expelled the tap water you are drinking ! :smile:

    There won't be weight-loss drugs in the water, since too many medical conditions contra-indicate.
    Most drugs wew consume get metabolised (so are broken down prior to excretion) but some are not. Hormones tend to be quite robust and there would be a market for a female contraceptive hormone that degrades after entering, say the bladder or the toilet.

    Semaglutides at the moment are, AFAIK, peptide based drugs so are very prone to hydrolysis, and would not last in the ecosystem (too many microbes would eat them).
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086
    edited June 3

    Taz said:

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Another positive reason for PR.

    I’d suspect PR would be bad for all of the three main parties in the UK and there’d be an emergence of several other parties across the spectrum.
    I always understood the split to be this: (a) with FPTP you have a small number of large parties that are internal coalitions (Tory Wets, Harder Right Wing Thatcherites, or on the Left - Socialists, Communists and the soft Left). And it tends to produce decisive wins for one or other of the big ones.

    (b) With PR you get more, smaller parties that are more idealogically more narrow and these lead to coalitions AFTER the election.

    Arguably we have arrived at the point of (b) without a change to the voting system. This led to a ridiculously skewed vote share vs seats at the last election (Greens and LD had similar vote share but a very different seat outcome, Labour had a pretty poor vote share for a winning party but a huge majority of seats).

    So unless politics goes back to the larger party model, we really ought to change the voting method, or we will continue to see 'unfair' majorities. People broadly seemed happy in 2024 as it was the Tories getting kicked out and Change UK sorry Labour that came in, but if similar happens again favouring the racists then the country will not be a happy place.
    You and Stodge may well be right, I don’t really know, just a hunch, but if it’s wrong it’s wrong.

    I guess we will find out in about ten to fifteen years !!

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,024
    Roger said:

    I see Reform having chosen a thin-skinned, pseudo-intellectual academic dressed by his mum as candidate for Gorton & Denton have somewhat over-compensated in the opposite direction.


    #r4today Reform UK's candidate for Makerfield Robert Kenyon: "... i dont know what nationalistic pish means"; Chris Mason: "you tell me, you wrote it"...oh dear

    https://x.com/tyrelwallace/status/2062069359120384135?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    You've been kind to him. You've used the only fifteen seconds out of a three minute interview that is even vaguely coherent
    I mean I think he’s an absolute whopper but he could very well be the next MP for Makerfield, having defeated the King in the North in battle.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    The assumption seems to be to hope the mainstream media does its job i.e not drawing too much attention to issues that might prove incendiary to white people/the political right. Of course the same media made great play of a carefully edited video when it came to the Manchester Airport violence.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,024
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Another positive reason for PR.

    I’d suspect PR would be bad for all of the three main parties in the UK and there’d be an emergence of several other parties across the spectrum.
    I always understood the split to be this: (a) with FPTP you have a small number of large parties that are internal coalitions (Tory Wets, Harder Right Wing Thatcherites, or on the Left - Socialists, Communists and the soft Left). And it tends to produce decisive wins for one or other of the big ones.

    (b) With PR you get more, smaller parties that are more idealogically more narrow and these lead to coalitions AFTER the election.

    Arguably we have arrived at the point of (b) without a change to the voting system. This led to a ridiculously skewed vote share vs seats at the last election (Greens and LD had similar vote share but a very different seat outcome, Labour had a pretty poor vote share for a winning party but a huge majority of seats).

    So unless politics goes back to the larger party model, we really ought to change the voting method, or we will continue to see 'unfair' majorities. People broadly seemed happy in 2024 as it was the Tories getting kicked out and Change UK sorry Labour that came in, but if similar happens again favouring the racists then the country will not be a happy place.
    You and Stodge may well be right, I don’t really know, just a hunch.
    Since I was 16 I have always thought that giving the people the power to determine the dominant party in these coalitions is a better model than FPTP where they don’t really. I imagine the anti-EU element of the right wing coalition that is/was the Tories would have been much more prominent much earlier if we had PR.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,373

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    He should probably bung in something about the state confiscating your social care costs too.
    Given that ploy worked so well for Theresa May...
    May 317 seats
    Corbyn 262 seats

    :innocent:
    But no majority...
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    edited June 3
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:
    Someone needs to give Z the locations of all those submarines being built, and naval ships.
    One ship got hit in the dock yesterday!

    https://x.com/angelshalagina/status/2062091063817298406
    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2062081977667166523
    Russian corvette Boykiy reportedly hit in Kronstadt

    This is the same vessel that escorted ships from Russia’s shadow oil fleet through the English Channel in 2025.

    Everything is going according to plan! The Boykiy (“Lively”) has successfully completed an accelerated demilitarization program and has now been reclassified as the Vyalyi (“Sluggish”).
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