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As many union members support Reform as Labour – politicalbetting.com

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,414
    dixiedean said:

    It would be spectacularly rare to hear anyone at all speaking a foreign language in any of the tiny towns that make up Makerfield.
    It really is one of the last bastions of almost 0 immigration.
    In fact. Until this circus kicked off almost nobody without connections to the area ever went there for any reason whatsoever.
    Strangers, of any kind, are noticed and worthy of comment.

    Deleted.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,989
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Peter Thiel moved his family to Argentina which is what you'd do if you were planning to make a move against Trump but you weren't totally sure it would come off.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,487

    Good morning

    On the subject of restricted benefit cards my wife, who has been very ill recently, appears to be celiac and her diagnosis was flagged in 2020 but overlooked due to covid pressure

    She has had an endyscope and we have moved to a gluten free diet and she is showing signs of recovery which we are very pleased about

    The Wales NHS provides prescriptions for celiac patients to buy the more expensive gluten free food and one Welsh Board has introduced a credit card for this scheme

    These are the details and it is expected to be rolled out across Wales

    https://nwssp.nhs.wales/ourservices/primary-care-services/our-services/gluten-free-foods-subsidy-card-service/

    That's an interesting contrast.

    NHS England significantly restricted their scheme (to staple foods) around a decade ago, provided via Pharmacies.
    Scotland is similar to England.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,510

    scampi25 said:

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    You don't understand people!
    I'm not saying this doesn't happen, simply that it's not a valid reason in and of itself. Of course, people freak out about all sorts of things all the time. I am not unaware of how people behave.
    It’s sadly common for men to use non-English to talk about women, in front of the women, in disgusting terms.

    And even get offended, when they discover later that the women understood the language in question.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,487
    edited June 1
    ..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,606
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    It has been pointed out here before that the average Reform supporter is far-right socially but far-left economically.

    The plates are shifting.

    That isn't really true, 51% of Reform voters think the government taxes too much and spends too much on public services and 60% think welfare benefits are too generous.

    Even if not as high as the 89% who think migrants coming to the United Kingdom across the English Channel should all be immediately removed from the United Kingdom and prevented from ever returning. The 77% who back restoration of the death penalty for some crimes, the 78% who think multiculturalism has made Britain worse and the 69% who think people in Britain should not be legally able to change their gender

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/49887-what-do-reform-uk-voters-believe
    There is a certain belief that it is welfare for others that is the problem, which doesn't match very well with the major grievance in the header being the means testing of WFA.

    Union members may also not be very keen on Reform's "Great Repeal Bill" which promises to gut rights of workers, and repeal of the Equalities Act. Mind you when even Reform candidates don't know this, why should we expect the voters to know?

    https://bsky.app/profile/bestforbritain.org/post/3mn3cxog2rg2q
    Dead easy to repeal the Equalities Act since it doesn't exist.

    It's the Equality Act.

    Quite a high crossover in my experience between those who do not accurately call it and those who do not understand what it says.
    Wouldn't that make it rather hard to repeal ?

    Good morning, Cyclefree. Did you see the lung cancer treatment news yesterday (apologies if it's irrelevant/old news for you) ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2026/may/30/cancer-jab-can-eradicate-entire-tumours-in-patients-trial-shows
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    edited June 1

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    Trump is likely to see his party lose Congress in November and most MAGA voters see Rubio as a RINO so if Trump tries and pushes him they will stick with Vance. More traditional Republican voters would likely go with Rubio though
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,510

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    Get one of these?


  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,453

    scampi25 said:

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    You don't understand people!
    I'm not saying this doesn't happen, simply that it's not a valid reason in and of itself. Of course, people freak out about all sorts of things all the time. I am not unaware of how people behave.
    It’s sadly common for men to use non-English to talk about women, in front of the women, in disgusting terms.

    And even get offended, when they discover later that the women understood the language in question.
    This may surprise you, but men also say disgusting things about women, in front of them as well as behind their backs and on the internet, in English. There is this thing called misogyny.
    There is also this thing called xenophobia, which leads people to assume the worst of other people based on them being "foreign". Neither are particularly useful or attractive forms of behaviour.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,375
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Even if Trump doesn't die, he might go gaga to the point where even this administration cannot ignore it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,177

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    Link for that? It can be intimidating to have people talking in a language that you don't understand. They could be, as an extreme example, discussing their plan to abduct and rape you.

    This is not some pathetic attempt to say that everyone must only speak English, but understanding peoples fear of foreigners is useful.
    Why would you assume that every person speaking a foreign language is planning to abduct and rape you? That is just a very weird assumption to make, not least as it probably makes you less safe as it might distract you from other more accurate signals of malign intent. It's not like people who speak English are not also rapists.
    Because people are irrational. The fear might not be rational but to the person it is real.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,510

    scampi25 said:

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    You don't understand people!
    I'm not saying this doesn't happen, simply that it's not a valid reason in and of itself. Of course, people freak out about all sorts of things all the time. I am not unaware of how people behave.
    It’s sadly common for men to use non-English to talk about women, in front of the women, in disgusting terms.

    And even get offended, when they discover later that the women understood the language in question.
    This may surprise you, but men also say disgusting things about women, in front of them as well as behind their backs and on the internet, in English. There is this thing called misogyny.
    There is also this thing called xenophobia, which leads people to assume the worst of other people based on them being "foreign". Neither are particularly useful or attractive forms of behaviour.
    Absolutely.

    But you should try talking to some women about the shit that the assholes *try* to conceal.

    It gets like the walking home down empty streets. Men barely notice. For women it’s a plan, require attention and scouting.

    Pro tip for misogynist wankers, by the way. When working in an American bank, talking shit about the women around you in Spanish won’t end well.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,414

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    Get one of these?


    I think that's more Dura Ace's thing than mine, if only because it only seems to have two wheels and I need four!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,510

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    Get one of these?


    I think that's more Dura Ace's thing than mine, if only because it only seems to have two wheels and I need four!
    Get a hybrid of the concept - convert the chassis of your mobility scooter.

    Simple solution to people blocking pavements with cars.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,487
    edited June 1

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    A random adjacent question that I was thinking about the other day.

    Do you have any trouble accessing litter bins?

    I was looking at a Chris Spango video about who makes the ubiquitous Council Bins, and there is a new fashion for ones called Big Belly bins with a built in compactor, a hopper where you have to drop you refuse in from above, and sometimes a big sticky-out foot pedal that would block wheelchairs.

    It looks innaccessable - a wheelchair using friend in Sheffield where they have them (eg outside the cathedral) says she finds them difficult as it requires intricate manoeuvres, especially if it is installed in a restrictive corner.

    (A good comparison for standard people is the times you have got it wrong when doing a Kentucky Fried Chicken Drive through or roll booth, and had to get out of your car - they cannot get out and things such as required force may be unachievable at that reach or angle, liek stiff RADAR gates.)

    Have you noticed anything similar with any bins?

    Spango vid (12 minutes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbt_jhIYQVo

    Pic:
  • Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    Highway code could mandate they need to wear approved helmets, but with no registration system that would be hard to enforce. There really needs to be a licence for riding these things, but given the godawful mess of the motorcycle licence system I'd expect it to be so onerous people would just ride illegally.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    Build some houses!
    This is a sobering article on housebulding

    https://kalkine.co.uk/news/general-news/why-are-uk-housebuilder-stocks-falling-today-and-is-btrw-the-biggest-risk
    The country absolutely needs a load more houses.
    We have 1m Neets needing training and work.
    We have 30,000 vacancies in construction.

    Replace council housing by building housing whilst training up tens of thousands of construction workers including much needed plumbers, electricians which are probably better careers than most graduate jobs already, and will become relatively even more desirable as Ai develops.
    I absolutely support moving young people into all aspects of construction jobs providing FE colleges in every town

    This is where success lies for many who will graduate into a never ending demand market and no doubt progress to starting their own business and not least of all with no student debt

    Blair 50% to go to university was a disaster

    I joined the police in 1964 without a degree, and most of our circle who were in nursing didn't either


    Heard on the radio that we have 600 sports journalist graduates every year. The total number of sports journalists in the UK is around 600.
    One of my grandsons graduated, from a British Uni, two years ago with a 2:1 in History. At time of writing he's managing a bar in Australia and thinking of retraining as an electrician.
    Problem is if everyone retrained as an electrician the law of supply and demand means that would soon collapse electricians wages and demand for them too
    If there were 2m houses a year being built, then the demand for electricians would also be higher.

    A gutting of planning law would be bad news only for the lawyers and consultants. No tears shed there…
    You say that without any knowledge of the UK. Reform voters do not on the whole want liberalised planning laws. They don’t want loads of building on green fields in their towns. They want the ability to reject development they don’t like.
    That’s hardly unique to Reform supporters though. It’s a far wider issue.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,414

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    Get one of these?


    I think that's more Dura Ace's thing than mine, if only because it only seems to have two wheels and I need four!
    Get a hybrid of the concept - convert the chassis of your mobility scooter.

    Simple solution to people blocking pavements with cars.
    That's a thought!
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    Get one of these?


    I can imagine Dura Ace nipping around his local town on that taking pot shots at Brexiteers and Royalists 😉
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,414
    MattW said:

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    A random adjacent question that I was thinking about the other day.

    Do you have any trouble accessing litter bins?

    I was looking at a Chris Spango video about who makes the ubiquitous Council Bins, and there is a new fashion for ones called Big Belly bins with a built in compactor, a hopper where you have to drop you refuse in from above, and sometimes a big sticky-out foot pedal that would block wheelchairs.

    It looks innaccessable - a wheelchair using friend in Sheffield where they have them (eg outside the cathedral) says she finds them difficult as it requires intricate manoeuvres, especially if it is installed in a restrictive corner.

    Have you noticed anything similar with any bins?

    Spango vid (12 minutes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbt_jhIYQVo

    Pic:
    No; at least not yet. Solution to such matters so far is to get Mrs C to use the bin!
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 1,065

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    You could also rotate your left arm when sticking it out, something I've seen precisely once ever with a vintage car driver.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,453

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    Link for that? It can be intimidating to have people talking in a language that you don't understand. They could be, as an extreme example, discussing their plan to abduct and rape you.

    This is not some pathetic attempt to say that everyone must only speak English, but understanding peoples fear of foreigners is useful.
    Why would you assume that every person speaking a foreign language is planning to abduct and rape you? That is just a very weird assumption to make, not least as it probably makes you less safe as it might distract you from other more accurate signals of malign intent. It's not like people who speak English are not also rapists.
    Because people are irrational. The fear might not be rational but to the person it is real.
    Indeed, but it won't keep them safe and it may put other people at risk.
    I have two teenage daughters so my wife and I put a lot of effort into trying to give them the sort of knowledge that will help to keep them safe. "Look out for anyone talking foreign" would 100% not be part of that advice. I also have a 17yo son who luckily is largely monoglot but does look "foreign" and I am acutely aware that he is actually at greater risk of violent assault than my daughters are and that people harbouring various racist preconceptions are very much part of the potential dangers he faces. Probably not so much in inner London, but certainly outside of the capital.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,744
    edited June 1

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Even if Trump doesn't die, he might go gaga to the point where even this administration cannot ignore it.
    Already way past Trump having lost his mind and the Administration have normalised the insanity. Without the intervention of the Grim Reaper Trump is going nowhere.

    Have you seen the Truth Social response to Judge Cooper removing the Trump name from the Kennedy Centre? He is back on Mount Rushmore again, or rather he would like to be.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,676

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    Highway code could mandate they need to wear approved helmets, but with no registration system that would be hard to enforce. There really needs to be a licence for riding these things, but given the godawful mess of the motorcycle licence system I'd expect it to be so onerous people would just ride illegally.
    Most of them arrive from China compliant with regulations, but are very easily modified to be non-compliant. They’re supposed to be limited to I think 25km/h, 17mph.

    The police will do people for motoring offences (no licence, insurance, registration etc) for what’s basically an illegal motorbike, but you have to be caught. They did this with a few of the scrotes in London who were pinching phones.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,487

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    Highway code could mandate they need to wear approved helmets, but with no registration system that would be hard to enforce. There really needs to be a licence for riding these things, but given the godawful mess of the motorcycle licence system I'd expect it to be so onerous people would just ride illegally.
    It's not clear there whether a moped (like an electric Vespa) or micro-scooter is the vehicle described.

    The latter is already illegal until the legislation gets its update - the sensible answer will be for micro-mobility scooters to be legalised in personal ownership, but with an e-assist limit of 8-12mph and a 4mph limit in pedestrian spaces.

    Then any of that type of vehicle doing 30mph would be subject to immediate confiscation.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,493
    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    In London that might never have been a rarity - in vast swathes of provincial England, this sort of thing is entirely novel.

    You just don't get it do you. No wonder you have the '-damus' designation....
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,208

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    If Labour fails to address the issues that matter to WWC voters, of course they will move away from the party.

    Moreso when the party gives the impression of not wanting votes "from the likes of you".

    But at least the north London supper party crowd can feel superior, which is the most important thing.
    Not everyone believes we always have to bow to the whims of the WWC - they can be as wrong as any other group of voters.

    You sneer at people you disagree with just as much as the "North London supper party crowd" you criticise
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224
    One European court clears up a mess we created to try and get round another one...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy526klrk20o

    "UK wins court case over collapsed Rwanda asylum deal"
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,628

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    Get one of these?


    I think that's more Dura Ace's thing than mine, if only because it only seems to have two wheels and I need four!
    Never had a Vespa. My cousin had one (minus the M20) and I did a burnout on it in his girlfriend's parents' conservatory and let him take the blame.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,414

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    You could also rotate your left arm when sticking it out, something I've seen precisely once ever with a vintage car driver.
    That's the reverse of the old arm signal I was taught to use when I was learning to drive back in the late 50's. "Intention to turn left" was indicated by sticking one's right arm out the window and slowly rotating it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,744
    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    In London that might never have been a rarity - in vast swathes of provincial England, this sort of thing is entirely novel.

    You just don't get it do you. No wonder you have the '-damus' designation....
    Neither do I.

    I remember taking my business partner to a Technical College in East Birmingham for a business meeting around a decade ago and driving through Sparkhill. He was petrified. I couldn't see any jeopardy. He is currently very responsive to Reform.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,628
    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    Highway code could mandate they need to wear approved helmets, but with no registration system that would be hard to enforce. There really needs to be a licence for riding these things, but given the godawful mess of the motorcycle licence system I'd expect it to be so onerous people would just ride illegally.
    Most of them arrive from China compliant with regulations, but are very easily modified to be non-compliant. They’re supposed to be limited to I think 25km/h, 17mph.

    The police will do people for motoring offences (no licence, insurance, registration etc) for what’s basically an illegal motorbike, but you have to be caught. They did this with a few of the scrotes in London who were pinching phones.
    The OB basically have a no pursuit policy for two wheeled vehicles. Hence running snide plates on a motorbike is zero risk.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811
    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,487

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    I have trouble on my mobility scooter; speed is controlled by levers on the handlebars, and if one lets go of the lever the machine stops. Forward speed is controlled by the one on the right, reverse by the left, so turning left is no problem, but indicating intention to turn right means crossing hands to maintain speed while sticking out one's right hand.
    Never thought of sticking my leg out!
    Get one of these?


    I'd be going for "Duck, you Sucker!".
    https://youtu.be/SZUNsQdYSuQ?t=242
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    The story about Cenk being banned from entry into the UK is true! We really are a police state. The man and his podcast is completely harmless.

    Here's his latest podcast

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6HklIe9A_w







  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,674
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    If there isn't an agreement this week.

    Exxon is saying that oil prices will rise to $150 to $160 in coming weeks
    https://x.com/JoshYoung/status/2061220589151367447

    I've been flagging for ages that the global economy is fucked with a capital fuck. The inflation spike will be something to behold...
    Iran knows this.

    Trump is going to be battered in the midterms unless gas prices crash. (Spoiler: they won't.).

    Iran knows this

    Trump is desperate for a deal.

    Iran knows this.

    Iran has also read "The Art of the Deal".
    Iran is also run by fucking loons. It's a race to see who can be more loony. At the moment, both sides are declaring victory on a weekly basis. Complete with "The Enemy is about to agree to everything we want".
    I remember once reading an article on the pros and cons of the American political system. Their presidential elections were cited in both columns. The cons that we all know, the money domination, the partisanship, etc etc, were balanced by one big pro. Which was (I recall reading) that the sheer prolonged intensity of the process, the demands made of The Candidate as they Run, first for their party nomination, then in the general, 24/7 exposed, every move every word, to the media and the watching electorate, that having to go through this white hot crucible of pure unfettered scrutiny for the best part of two years meant that, regardless of their precise political positioning or ideology or personality type, whoever emerged would at least be up to the job.

    So that was that article.
    Then we see who’s actually come out of this process in, say, the past decade… some of the most unsuitable candidates of all time.

    The problem with the primary process is that the party’s registered voters tend to be more extreme politically than the general population of the country, so the way to win the primaries is to go way off to the side.

    This could be a massive problem for the Democrats in ‘28, if the Bernie Sanders / AOC / Mamdani supporters have too much influence in the primaries. The primary voters in general are a lot more centrist than the activist base.
    "some of" ... lol sure.

    Let's call them the peleton.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,375

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Even if Trump doesn't die, he might go gaga to the point where even this administration cannot ignore it.
    Already way past Trump having lost his mind and the Administration have normalised the insanity. Without the intervention of the Grim Reaper Trump is going nowhere.

    Have you seen the Truth Social response to Judge Cooper removing the Trump name from the Kennedy Centre? He is back on Mount Rushmore again, or rather he would like to be.
    If that were ever to get built, the lottery to push the plunger to fire the dynamite to watch his face slide down the mountain would be the hottest ticket ever...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    Link for that? It can be intimidating to have people talking in a language that you don't understand. They could be, as an extreme example, discussing their plan to abduct and rape you.

    This is not some pathetic attempt to say that everyone must only speak English, but understanding peoples fear of foreigners is useful.
    Why would you assume that every person speaking a foreign language is planning to abduct and rape you? That is just a very weird assumption to make, not least as it probably makes you less safe as it might distract you from other more accurate signals of malign intent. It's not like people who speak English are not also rapists.
    Because people are irrational. The fear might not be rational but to the person it is real.
    Real and paid for by US broligarchs who want to destroy our nation state and achieve that by creating fear and division.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,487
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Highway code needs updated?

    Followed one of those electric scooters around town this morning. It was averaging 30 mph and the rider had no protection but a firm grip of the handlebars. Wanting to turn right he sticks out a leg to indicate! Seems reasonable but not what you'd expect.

    Highway code could mandate they need to wear approved helmets, but with no registration system that would be hard to enforce. There really needs to be a licence for riding these things, but given the godawful mess of the motorcycle licence system I'd expect it to be so onerous people would just ride illegally.
    Most of them arrive from China compliant with regulations, but are very easily modified to be non-compliant. They’re supposed to be limited to I think 25km/h, 17mph.

    The police will do people for motoring offences (no licence, insurance, registration etc) for what’s basically an illegal motorbike, but you have to be caught. They did this with a few of the scrotes in London who were pinching phones.
    The OB basically have a no pursuit policy for two wheeled vehicles. Hence running snide plates on a motorbike is zero risk.
    Is that the case in Scotland?

    In England aiui it is usually risk-assessed by the control room. The Met go further in that they do "tactical contact".
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    edited June 1
    Roger said:

    The story about Cenk being banned from entry into the UK is true! We really are a police state. The man and his podcast is completely harmless.

    Here's his latest podcast

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6HklIe9A_w


    Kindly supplied by TUD. Incase anyone doubted Labour's stupidity. One for Private Eye I guess!

    https://x.com/koshercockney/status/2061234596411318398?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Even if Trump doesn't die, he might go gaga to the point where even this administration cannot ignore it.
    there's playing the hits then there's running this chyron in May 2026

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mn6xf6dxnk2y
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,744

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Even if Trump doesn't die, he might go gaga to the point where even this administration cannot ignore it.
    Already way past Trump having lost his mind and the Administration have normalised the insanity. Without the intervention of the Grim Reaper Trump is going nowhere.

    Have you seen the Truth Social response to Judge Cooper removing the Trump name from the Kennedy Centre? He is back on Mount Rushmore again, or rather he would like to be.
    If that were ever to get built, the lottery to push the plunger to fire the dynamite to watch his face slide down the mountain would be the hottest ticket ever...
    I would find a master stonemason who could transform the Trump part of the monument into Barack Obama.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,242

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Peter Thiel moved his family to Argentina which is what you'd do if you were planning to make a move against Trump but you weren't totally sure it would come off.
    He'll meet a lot of Germans who will have similar views to himself.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    edited June 1

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    Yep - replace Westminster with EU and you have why we ended up with Brexit

    And this time round Westminster can’t even threaten the Scottish with Spain stopping them joining the EU (which must have been worth a few votes).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    edited June 1
    Roger said:

    The story about Cenk being banned from entry into the UK is true! We really are a police state. The man and his podcast is completely harmless.

    Here's his latest podcast

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6HklIe9A_w







    Matches the justified ban on the far right
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    eek said:

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    Yep - replace Westminster with EU and you have why we ended up with Brexit

    And this time round Westminster can’t even threaten the Scottish with Spain stopping them joining the EU (which must have been worth a few votes).
    The Aberdeen South by election will be interesting though, Westminster also has the final say on the union, it was the EU who included Article 50 enabling the UK to leave of its own accord
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333
    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258
    Roger said:

    The story about Cenk being banned from entry into the UK is true! We really are a police state. The man and his podcast is completely harmless.

    Here's his latest podcast

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6HklIe9A_w

    So this is "some of the things he says are OK, so therefore he isn't an antisemite"
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,487

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    It would be interesting to see Ref UK explore Union affiliation.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,756
    Nigelb said:

    For all the Moonraker fans on PB.

    The Battle of Moonraker base is never the same once you learn the truth:

    The dolls inside each space suit were surplus Fonzarelli action figures from Happy Days.

    The staff kept triggering the sound effect the doll made which they incorporated into the scene.

    So next time you see one of the astronauts hit by a laser and spinning off into space, you can now hear The Fonze giving the thumbs-up saying “Aaay!”…

    https://x.com/TotherChris/status/2061124872764346479

    (I have no idea if this is true.)

    I'm going to call "shenanigans" on that. The epic space station EVA battle is the peak of British special effects of the period (miniatures, everything in-camera) and looking at the final result there us plainly not a single "aargh" cry: to my ears it sounds like at least three distinct cries. Incidentally, the Wilhelm Scream isn't used either. Also incidentally, they should have made the bad guy lasers a different colour to the good guy lasers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5v7ng0o4A

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Peter Thiel moved his family to Argentina which is what you'd do if you were planning to make a move against Trump but you weren't totally sure it would come off.
    He was born in Frankfurt, so not eligible for the presidency himself
  • theakestheakes Posts: 985
    Dixie Dean at 11.40am
    Makerfield, as someone who lived there for a time and indeed stood for the Council may I just confirm that it is not made up of a number of towns but is one complete urban area with ward divisions with there own names, as occurs everywhere..
    Re language: I am a "cockney" from Islington, but language was no problem!
    Also 40 years ago from my canvassing I recall there were plenty of ethnic Asian and Afro Caribbeans there, two were on our ward committee.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,744
    edited June 1

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Remember Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth character in Love thy Neighbour. He was a trade unionist, a socialist and a racist. I wonder what Eddie Booth would be voting these days?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,505

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Not quite. Union workers (inasmuch as one can lump them together) want a better life. As do we all. After manifest failures as they see it by the mainstream parties they are willing to give anything a go. They pressed the red button on Brexit and that didn't work so they are currently falling for the Brexiter (and socialist) "not done right" mantra. One last push, this time we'll do it properly, etc.

    I hear a lot about broken Britain but am not really in a position, bar the economic aggregates ("not my GDP"), to make a call on how the vast swathe of people are living and whether they are suffering. Easy for me to say I can't see it but I don't see it.

    I have to believe, however, that there are sufficient numbers who are trying and will try everything and anything to improve their lot.

    And back on topic apols I missed it at the time, but a) you simply cannot spend 86 minutes trying not to lose against PSG and think you will succeed; and b) what the fuckety fuck was that pathetic run up and dance by Eze. It was obvious he would miss as soon as he started skipping on the spot.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Peter Thiel moved his family to Argentina which is what you'd do if you were planning to make a move against Trump but you weren't totally sure it would come off.
    He was born in Frankfurt, so not eligible for the presidency himself
    So, a German moving his family to Argentina. I wonder if that has ever happened before...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,624
    In reference to an earlier discussion, I'm all in favour of a big expansion in FE college construction departments, and apprenticeships, to generate the workers needed to build all the houses we need.

    However, there are two fundamental, and related, problems. Firstly, FE colleges are very badly underfunded, especially in comparison to schools and universities. Secondly, FE lecturers' and assessors' pay is nowhere near high enough to attract the calibre of staff needed to train to the quality needed - why would a plumber taking, say, 60k a year, want to train new plumbers for a salary of around 30k? This isn't a new problem - it's one of the reasons the 'Polish plumber' was a thing at the start of this century.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    edited June 1
    Many want to avoid culture war issues which of course leaves the terrain to others.

    What of the kirpan? Excuse my ignorance but I genuinely was not aware that there was a religious exemption on the laws regarding the carrying of dangerous weapons. More surprisingly I can't seem to find any restrictions on the sort of knife that can be carried. Surely that isn't sustainable in a country that has taken such a draconian position on the carrying of dangerous weapons? As usual Fraser Nelson pop ups to defend religious liberty but does he not understand that could mean pretty much anything? There is increasing irritation at these exemptions because people see it as granting special privileges to others. If you are in a country where 95% of people have a religious faith, defending other's freedoms for the sake of your own makes sense. But when an increasingly large number of people have no religion they will quite understandably resent it. There are certain things I don't much like such as halal or kosher slaughter (I understand most halal is now pre stunned in some form) but we tolerate it for the sake of harmony. There have to be limits though. Religious belief cannot be used to justify anything.

    I have a prediction. Given the favourable status they enjoy, we may see new religions emerge. What about Femaleism? A religion that allows it's adherents to carry pepper spray?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 1,137
    edited June 1

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    I remember canvassing as a rookie for the SDP/Alliance in my first GE, in a Durham pit village. I was astonished at the racist and authoritarian views openly expressed to me by some of the people I met. And they were all clearly planning to vote Labour. A legacy of the NUM, I guess.

    (Authoritarianism doesn't have to be solely right-wing, of course).
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Remember Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth character in Love thy Neighbour. He was a trade unionist, a socialist and a racist. I wonder what Eddie Booth would be voting these days?
    No one. He’d be dead. The show started in 1972 and the character was middle aged then.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,553
    This may have already been covered, but:

    I'm slightly surprised that as many union members support Reform as Labour. There are so few union members left that you'd have thought those who remained were disproprortionately lefty.
    But I'm astonished that this appears to be specifically public sector union members. I work in the public sector. I know one or two sotto voce Tories, but absolutely no-one who would even under their breath admit to voting Reform. Clearly the bit of the public sector I work in is not all of it - but still, this seems remarkable.
  • Cookie said:

    This may have already been covered, but:

    I'm slightly surprised that as many union members support Reform as Labour. There are so few union members left that you'd have thought those who remained were disproprortionately lefty.
    But I'm astonished that this appears to be specifically public sector union members. I work in the public sector. I know one or two sotto voce Tories, but absolutely no-one who would even under their breath admit to voting Reform. Clearly the bit of the public sector I work in is not all of it - but still, this seems remarkable.

    Kind of puts to bed the theory put across by many here that the public sector is full of left wing people that secretly want communism.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789

    Roger said:

    The story about Cenk being banned from entry into the UK is true! We really are a police state. The man and his podcast is completely harmless.

    Here's his latest podcast

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6HklIe9A_w







    Matches the justified ban on the far right
    I don't much like us banning foreigners unless there is very good reason. If it is to be done the reasoning should be crystal clear.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,453

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Peter Thiel moved his family to Argentina which is what you'd do if you were planning to make a move against Trump but you weren't totally sure it would come off.
    He was born in Frankfurt, so not eligible for the presidency himself
    Argentina has long been popular with German born right wingers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,510
    TOPPING said:

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Not quite. Union workers (inasmuch as one can lump them together) want a better life. As do we all. After manifest failures as they see it by the mainstream parties they are willing to give anything a go. They pressed the red button on Brexit and that didn't work so they are currently falling for the Brexiter (and socialist) "not done right" mantra. One last push, this time we'll do it properly, etc.

    I hear a lot about broken Britain but am not really in a position, bar the economic aggregates ("not my GDP"), to make a call on how the vast swathe of people are living and whether they are suffering. Easy for me to say I can't see it but I don't see it.

    I have to believe, however, that there are sufficient numbers who are trying and will try everything and anything to improve their lot.

    And back on topic apols I missed it at the time, but a) you simply cannot spend 86 minutes trying not to lose against PSG and think you will succeed; and b) what the fuckety fuck was that pathetic run up and dance by Eze. It was obvious he would miss as soon as he started skipping on the spot.
    There are policies that could ameliorate the real effects that causing issues, without adopting Reform policies.

    For example, my suggested push* on illegal/sub-minimum wage employment, targeting the employers. Surely the left/progressives would be on board for hammering the hell out of people who are exploiting the poor and vulnerable?

    It would get the trade unionists on board as a defence of wages and conditions.

    *Massive fines, personal liability for directors, rewards for testimony (including indefinite leave to remain for those with irregular work visa status).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation, one might think that the unionist parties with their massive support from the press and media (including the state broadcaster) might review why their support is continuing to decline.
    But no.

    Here's a Scotch issue that might be of passing concern to you. Prediction: despite broadcasting being a devolved matter, Yoonery will immediately default to 'Why isn't the SNP fixing this' rather than using whatever shrivelled influence thay have at Westminster to change the situation.



    https://x.com/Detroit67Book/status/2061398249299136967?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,510
    Cookie said:

    This may have already been covered, but:

    I'm slightly surprised that as many union members support Reform as Labour. There are so few union members left that you'd have thought those who remained were disproprortionately lefty.
    But I'm astonished that this appears to be specifically public sector union members. I work in the public sector. I know one or two sotto voce Tories, but absolutely no-one who would even under their breath admit to voting Reform. Clearly the bit of the public sector I work in is not all of it - but still, this seems remarkable.

    Even in the 80s, Conservative support among union members was something like 20-25%
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,510

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation....

    :
    So you agree utterly and completely with him, but are upset by it?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,744
    edited June 1
    Taz said:

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Remember Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth character in Love thy Neighbour. He was a trade unionist, a socialist and a racist. I wonder what Eddie Booth would be voting these days?
    No one. He’d be dead. The show started in 1972 and the character was middle aged then.

    Jack Smethust died in 2022. So you are right Eddie is brown bread. Rudolph Walker, Nina Baden- Semper and Kate Williams are all still with us, and their respective characters would still be voting one- nation Tory.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,611
    Taz said:

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Remember Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth character in Love thy Neighbour. He was a trade unionist, a socialist and a racist. I wonder what Eddie Booth would be voting these days?
    No one. He’d be dead. The show started in 1972 and the character was middle aged then.

    I took that as a challenge @Taz. He only died 4 years ago aged 89 so it was possible.

    I was thinking of you the other day when I saw that the Morecambe and Wise Sweeney episode was on the TV. They played at Frimley Green Lakeside Club in the episode. I could tell a couple of stories about that club, but libel laws prevent me from risking it.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258

    Roger said:

    The story about Cenk being banned from entry into the UK is true! We really are a police state. The man and his podcast is completely harmless.

    Here's his latest podcast

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6HklIe9A_w







    Matches the justified ban on the far right
    I don't much like us banning foreigners unless there is very good reason. If it is to be done the reasoning should be crystal clear.
    Roger clearly supports him, which is good enough for me
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    edited June 1
    theakes said:

    Dixie Dean at 11.40am
    Makerfield, as someone who lived there for a time and indeed stood for the Council may I just confirm that it is not made up of a number of towns but is one complete urban area with ward divisions with there own names, as occurs everywhere..
    Re language: I am a "cockney" from Islington, but language was no problem!
    Also 40 years ago from my canvassing I recall there were plenty of ethnic Asian and Afro Caribbeans there, two were on our ward committee.

    It's 98% ethnic white today. 96%+ White British. There wasn't a single non white at my Primary School in the 70's.
    Hindley, Ashton, Abram, Winstanley and Billinge and Orrell were all UDC's with their own Town Council and Mayors before 1974. I consider them to be towns. There are fields and fields between each of them. And occasionally stand alone villages.
    Towards the north it begins to merge into Wigan around Highfield, Winstanley and Worsley Mesnes.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation, one might think that the unionist parties with their massive support from the press and media (including the state broadcaster) might review why their support is continuing to decline.
    But no.

    Here's a Scotch issue that might be of passing concern to you. Prediction: despite broadcasting being a devolved matter, Yoonery will immediately default to 'Why isn't the SNP fixing this' rather than using whatever shrivelled influence thay have at Westminster to change the situation.



    https://x.com/Detroit67Book/status/2061398249299136967?s=20
    Given what it most cost to provide North of Scotland news reporting I can see why it's being cut.

    TV doesn't generate the advertising revenue it did in the era of Rivals (80s / 90s). Heck it won't be generating the income it did back in 2023/4.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,453

    Many want to avoid culture war issues which of course leaves the terrain to others.

    What of the kirpan? Excuse my ignorance but I genuinely was not aware that there was a religious exemption on the laws regarding the carrying of dangerous weapons. More surprisingly I can't seem to find any restrictions on the sort of knife that can be carried. Surely that isn't sustainable in a country that has taken such a draconian position on the carrying of dangerous weapons? As usual Fraser Nelson pop ups to defend religious liberty but does he not understand that could mean pretty much anything? There is increasing irritation at these exemptions because people see it as granting special privileges to others. If you are in a country where 95% of people have a religious faith, defending other's freedoms for the sake of your own makes sense. But when an increasingly large number of people have no religion they will quite understandably resent it. There are certain things I don't much like such as halal or kosher slaughter (I understand most halal is now pre stunned in some form) but we tolerate it for the sake of harmony. There have to be limits though. Religious belief cannot be used to justify anything.

    I have a prediction. Given the favourable status they enjoy, we may see new religions emerge. What about Femaleism? A religion that allows it's adherents to carry pepper spray?

    There are legal exemptions for carrying a knife as part of religious or national dress or for work purposes as well as if the defendant can prove they were carrying a knife for "good reason". I guess it is down to proportionality and probability. A person who carries a knife because they wear it as part of their national dress or religion or are a chef travelling to work is much less likely to use it offensively than someone who has no good reason for carrying it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093
    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Remember Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth character in Love thy Neighbour. He was a trade unionist, a socialist and a racist. I wonder what Eddie Booth would be voting these days?
    No one. He’d be dead. The show started in 1972 and the character was middle aged then.

    I took that as a challenge @Taz. He only died 4 years ago aged 89 so it was possible.

    I was thinking of you the other day when I saw that the Morecambe and Wise Sweeney episode was on the TV. They played at Frimley Green Lakeside Club in the episode. I could tell a couple of stories about that club, but libel laws prevent me from risking it.
    Bob Potters place ? Home of the BDO world championship for many many years ? That Frimley Green !!

    I’ve heard a few on Darts forums but I’m sure yours are more salacious.

    I am pretty sure Eddie Booth, as a character, was a little older than Jack Smethurst when he played him.

    I’ve seen all of them a couple of times. It becomes tedious and repetitive very very quickly. God knows how they dragged it out for seven series !

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Peter Thiel moved his family to Argentina which is what you'd do if you were planning to make a move against Trump but you weren't totally sure it would come off.
    He was born in Frankfurt, so not eligible for the presidency himself
    Argentina has long been popular with German born right wingers.
    Leroy Sane? Pierre Litbarski?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258
    Cookie said:

    This may have already been covered, but:

    I'm slightly surprised that as many union members support Reform as Labour. There are so few union members left that you'd have thought those who remained were disproprortionately lefty.
    But I'm astonished that this appears to be specifically public sector union members. I work in the public sector. I know one or two sotto voce Tories, but absolutely no-one who would even under their breath admit to voting Reform. Clearly the bit of the public sector I work in is not all of it - but still, this seems remarkable.

    There are quite a lot of Civil Servants working for the DWP. Most have views about long-term benefit claimants that you might stereotypically apply to people on the Right. (And some of them about immigrants, asylum seekers etc). So yes it is quite possible that many of them have turned to Reform having seen various governments doing nothing about the benefit spend, and as a colleague pointed out, seeing his neighbour getting a fancy new car off Motability every three years where many working people can't afford it, and many non-disabled unemployed people are frozen out of the labour market because they can't afford a car
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,453

    Cookie said:

    This may have already been covered, but:

    I'm slightly surprised that as many union members support Reform as Labour. There are so few union members left that you'd have thought those who remained were disproprortionately lefty.
    But I'm astonished that this appears to be specifically public sector union members. I work in the public sector. I know one or two sotto voce Tories, but absolutely no-one who would even under their breath admit to voting Reform. Clearly the bit of the public sector I work in is not all of it - but still, this seems remarkable.

    Even in the 80s, Conservative support among union members was something like 20-25%
    I remember my liberal parents' accounts of Labour Party meetings in 1980s Newcastle...
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093
    Meet the new boss

    Same as the old boss

    ‘ If you are currently on-board a train which has been at a stand for some time outside of a station, please remain on the train and await further updates from our train crew.

    If you have any additional support needs, please get in touch with us directly on X and we'll be able to assist further.’

    https://x.com/southernrailuk/status/2061318475558051862?s=61
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,947
    edited June 1

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    Build some houses!
    This is a sobering article on housebulding

    https://kalkine.co.uk/news/general-news/why-are-uk-housebuilder-stocks-falling-today-and-is-btrw-the-biggest-risk
    The country absolutely needs a load more houses.
    We have 1m Neets needing training and work.
    We have 30,000 vacancies in construction.

    Replace council housing by building housing whilst training up tens of thousands of construction workers including much needed plumbers, electricians which are probably better careers than most graduate jobs already, and will become relatively even more desirable as Ai develops.
    I absolutely support moving young people into all aspects of construction jobs providing FE colleges in every town

    This is where success lies for many who will graduate into a never ending demand market and no doubt progress to starting their own business and not least of all with no student debt

    Blair 50% to go to university was a disaster

    I joined the police in 1964 without a degree, and most of our circle who were in nursing didn't either


    Heard on the radio that we have 600 sports journalist graduates every year. The total number of sports journalists in the UK is around 600.
    One of my grandsons graduated, from a British Uni, two years ago with a 2:1 in History. At time of writing he's managing a bar in Australia and thinking of retraining as an electrician.
    Problem is if everyone retrained as an electrician the law of supply and demand means that would soon collapse electricians wages and demand for them too
    If there were 2m houses a year being built, then the demand for electricians would also be higher.

    A gutting of planning law would be bad news only for the lawyers and consultants. No tears shed there…
    You say that without any knowledge of the UK. Reform voters do not on the whole want liberalised planning laws. They don’t want loads of building on green fields in their towns. They want the ability to reject development they don’t like.
    One of the most common comments you see from Reformy types on Facebook is “we don’t need this, we need X” in respect of any new proposed development.
    Reform supporters are actually pretty consistent.

    They have realised that all the building (and there has been a huge amount of housebuilding in the last 15 years or so) is only happening to keep pace with the population growth from immigration. Indeed, there has been so much immigration that the cost of housing has gone up, because people have arrived faster than we've added to the housing stock.

    Logically, if there's no immigration, and birth rates are such that we have a static or shrinking population, we shouldn't need to keep expanding the housing supply.

    I used to think we needed to bin most of the rules around planning permission and building regs to get house prices under control. I've never liked the idea of building nasty Barrett wonders everywhere, but I used to think it was necessary. I've since had something of a damascene conversion, and realised that this is trying to solve the wrong end of the problem, it's much easier to reduce demand via almost completely stopping immigration than to keep concreting over green fields until the whole country becomes an extended version of the worst bits of Swindon.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,752

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    Link for that? It can be intimidating to have people talking in a language that you don't understand. They could be, as an extreme example, discussing their plan to abduct and rape you.

    This is not some pathetic attempt to say that everyone must only speak English, but understanding peoples fear of foreigners is useful.
    English is the best language in the world.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258
    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Remember Jack Smethurst's Eddie Booth character in Love thy Neighbour. He was a trade unionist, a socialist and a racist. I wonder what Eddie Booth would be voting these days?
    No one. He’d be dead. The show started in 1972 and the character was middle aged then.

    I took that as a challenge @Taz. He only died 4 years ago aged 89 so it was possible.

    I was thinking of you the other day when I saw that the Morecambe and Wise Sweeney episode was on the TV. They played at Frimley Green Lakeside Club in the episode. I could tell a couple of stories about that club, but libel laws prevent me from risking it.
    Bob Potters place ? Home of the BDO world championship for many many years ? That Frimley Green !!

    I’ve heard a few on Darts forums but I’m sure yours are more salacious.

    I am pretty sure Eddie Booth, as a character, was a little older than Jack Smethurst when he played him.

    I’ve seen all of them a couple of times. It becomes tedious and repetitive very very quickly. God knows how they dragged it out for seven series !

    Lakeside used to be well-known for its weekly "Grab a granny" night
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579
    Hmm, disagree with banning Cenk Ughyur from the country. He's just an angry mainstream left commentator. I think he's been banned because of his relationship with his nephew Hasan who openly supports terrorists and other criminality rather than anything he did.

    I don't like this trend of banning people from the country for saying things we don't like to hear, unless they are specifically supporting or inciting violence or criminal behaviour I don't think people should be banned from speaking here. I don't think Cenk has openly supported terrorists or advocated for criminal behaviour, and I don't understand why it would be necessary to ban him from speaking at SXSW which is just a tech conference, not anything controversial or political.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation, one might think that the unionist parties with their massive support from the press and media (including the state broadcaster) might review why their support is continuing to decline.
    But no.

    Here's a Scotch issue that might be of passing concern to you. Prediction: despite broadcasting being a devolved matter, Yoonery will immediately default to 'Why isn't the SNP fixing this' rather than using whatever shrivelled influence thay have at Westminster to change the situation.



    https://x.com/Detroit67Book/status/2061398249299136967?s=20
    You appear to be confusing me with unionists. I am not a unionist and neither is my party.

    So, back on topic. More money per head than England and worse results.

    Is that the fault of (a) England or (b) the Scottish government?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,453

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Buttigieg has already win Iowa in 2020 and was runner up in New Hampshire, just 1% behind Sanders, so he already has an advantage in the early states.

    I think Buttigieg v Vance is a strong possibility for 2028
    It is widely reported that Trump now hates Vance. Hates him even more because he can't fire him. And has to keep going two and a half more years to keep him out the Oval Office.

    If Trump has any say on the MAGA candidate going into 2028, it won't be Vance.
    If I were certain Trump will survive the next two and a half years, I would be laying Vance.
    I am not laying Vance.
    Peter Thiel moved his family to Argentina which is what you'd do if you were planning to make a move against Trump but you weren't totally sure it would come off.
    He was born in Frankfurt, so not eligible for the presidency himself
    Argentina has long been popular with German born right wingers.
    Leroy Sane? Pierre Litbarski?
    I was thinking of Adolf Eichmann.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892
    eek said:

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation, one might think that the unionist parties with their massive support from the press and media (including the state broadcaster) might review why their support is continuing to decline.
    But no.

    Here's a Scotch issue that might be of passing concern to you. Prediction: despite broadcasting being a devolved matter, Yoonery will immediately default to 'Why isn't the SNP fixing this' rather than using whatever shrivelled influence thay have at Westminster to change the situation.



    https://x.com/Detroit67Book/status/2061398249299136967?s=20
    Given what it most cost to provide North of Scotland news reporting I can see why it's being cut.

    TV doesn't generate the advertising revenue it did in the era of Rivals (80s / 90s). Heck it won't be generating the income it did back in 2023/4.
    Yebbut STV has a public broadcasting remit with consequent funding. When they shut down Grampian TV in 2006 it was with the proviso that they would continue to provide a news service for the north of Scotland. Not worth the paper it was written on obviously.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333
    dixiedean said:

    theakes said:

    Dixie Dean at 11.40am
    Makerfield, as someone who lived there for a time and indeed stood for the Council may I just confirm that it is not made up of a number of towns but is one complete urban area with ward divisions with there own names, as occurs everywhere..
    Re language: I am a "cockney" from Islington, but language was no problem!
    Also 40 years ago from my canvassing I recall there were plenty of ethnic Asian and Afro Caribbeans there, two were on our ward committee.

    It's 98% ethnic white today. 96%+ White British. There wasn't a single non white at my Primary School in the 70's.
    Hindley, Ashton, Abram, Winstanley and Billinge and Orrell were all UDC's with their own Town Council and Mayors before 1974. I consider them to be towns. There are fields and fields between each of them. And occasionally stand alone villages.
    Towards the north it begins to merge into Wigan around Highfield, Winstanley and Worsley Mesnes.
    I have also door-knocked almost entirely white communities and been told there is an immediate crisis with too many immigrants.

    It doesn't matter that they do not see immigrants on their street and in their community. What they see are public services run down and defunded, and the physical landscape crumbling around them. And then on Facebook / Instagram / Twitter they see that migrants are responsible for this enshittification.

    Thus they suffer the problems caused by migrants without there actually being any migrants. It makes no sense if you apply facts or logic, but this is now an emotional problem amongst the people who don't know how stuff works and don't want to know how it works.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation, one might think that the unionist parties with their massive support from the press and media (including the state broadcaster) might review why their support is continuing to decline.
    But no.

    Here's a Scotch issue that might be of passing concern to you. Prediction: despite broadcasting being a devolved matter, Yoonery will immediately default to 'Why isn't the SNP fixing this' rather than using whatever shrivelled influence thay have at Westminster to change the situation.



    https://x.com/Detroit67Book/status/2061398249299136967?s=20
    You appear to be confusing me with unionists. I am not a unionist and neither is my party.

    So, back on topic. More money per head than England and worse results.

    Is that the fault of (a) England or (b) the Scottish government?
    Didn;t you vote for a unionist party (sotto voce) in the last election, and one apparently more in tune with your inclinations?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,505

    TOPPING said:

    Back on topic, it should be no surprise that many Union members are supporting Reform. The Trade Union link with Labour fractured and broke down during the Blair era, with many unions clearly to the left of Labour.

    So why are they now supporting Reform? Because community conservatism and parochial bigotry was always at the heart of the labour movement. Labour was always a coalition between the workers and the well-meaning management types, until the workers were told to like it or lump it by Kinnock then Blair. Remember that so many blue collar workers were avid Thatcherites - why would many of them now being Reformers be a surprise?

    Not quite. Union workers (inasmuch as one can lump them together) want a better life. As do we all. After manifest failures as they see it by the mainstream parties they are willing to give anything a go. They pressed the red button on Brexit and that didn't work so they are currently falling for the Brexiter (and socialist) "not done right" mantra. One last push, this time we'll do it properly, etc.

    I hear a lot about broken Britain but am not really in a position, bar the economic aggregates ("not my GDP"), to make a call on how the vast swathe of people are living and whether they are suffering. Easy for me to say I can't see it but I don't see it.

    I have to believe, however, that there are sufficient numbers who are trying and will try everything and anything to improve their lot.

    And back on topic apols I missed it at the time, but a) you simply cannot spend 86 minutes trying not to lose against PSG and think you will succeed; and b) what the fuckety fuck was that pathetic run up and dance by Eze. It was obvious he would miss as soon as he started skipping on the spot.
    There are policies that could ameliorate the real effects that causing issues, without adopting Reform policies.

    For example, my suggested push* on illegal/sub-minimum wage employment, targeting the employers. Surely the left/progressives would be on board for hammering the hell out of people who are exploiting the poor and vulnerable?

    It would get the trade unionists on board as a defence of wages and conditions.

    *Massive fines, personal liability for directors, rewards for testimony (including indefinite leave to remain for those with irregular work visa status).
    Problem with that is that when it comes to the poor and vulnerable, in the left lexicon immigrants are always at the neediest end of the scale and their needs outrank those of the well-fed, vaping, flatscreen tv-watching indigenous population.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909

    eek said:

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation, one might think that the unionist parties with their massive support from the press and media (including the state broadcaster) might review why their support is continuing to decline.
    But no.

    Here's a Scotch issue that might be of passing concern to you. Prediction: despite broadcasting being a devolved matter, Yoonery will immediately default to 'Why isn't the SNP fixing this' rather than using whatever shrivelled influence thay have at Westminster to change the situation.



    https://x.com/Detroit67Book/status/2061398249299136967?s=20
    Given what it most cost to provide North of Scotland news reporting I can see why it's being cut.

    TV doesn't generate the advertising revenue it did in the era of Rivals (80s / 90s). Heck it won't be generating the income it did back in 2023/4.
    Yebbut STV has a public broadcasting remit with consequent funding. When they shut down Grampian TV in 2006 it was with the proviso that they would continue to provide a news service for the north of Scotland. Not worth the paper it was written on obviously.
    I suspect you could keep the local news going for a few more years at the cost of more rapid bankruptcy...

    Reality is I suspect the Scottish Government is very happy that the blame can be pinned elsewhere..
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892
    Uh oh, I foresee loads of 'you did not use the item for the purpose for which it was originally intended' going on.

    https://x.com/shopatvalcero/status/2060333181354524794?s=20
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, disagree with banning Cenk Ughyur from the country. He's just an angry mainstream left commentator. I think he's been banned because of his relationship with his nephew Hasan who openly supports terrorists and other criminality rather than anything he did.

    I don't like this trend of banning people from the country for saying things we don't like to hear, unless they are specifically supporting or inciting violence or criminal behaviour I don't think people should be banned from speaking here. I don't think Cenk has openly supported terrorists or advocated for criminal behaviour, and I don't understand why it would be necessary to ban him from speaking at SXSW which is just a tech conference, not anything controversial or political.

    We are becoming so polarised as to be ungovernable.

    One one side the pro-Gaza people (of every ethnicity) who think Israel is manipulating these decisions to ban their speakers.

    On the other side the pro-Fascist people (white and gammon) who think Hamas is manipulating these decisions to ban their speakers.

    Both sides have the absolute right to hear speakers within the bounds of the law and to hold marches and protests. Our issue is that these two extremes see the other as the anti-Christ who's mere existence is evil. It isn't free speech when you want to say what you want and ban the other side. Nor is it free speech when hand-wringer types selectively ban both sides...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789

    dixiedean said:

    theakes said:

    Dixie Dean at 11.40am
    Makerfield, as someone who lived there for a time and indeed stood for the Council may I just confirm that it is not made up of a number of towns but is one complete urban area with ward divisions with there own names, as occurs everywhere..
    Re language: I am a "cockney" from Islington, but language was no problem!
    Also 40 years ago from my canvassing I recall there were plenty of ethnic Asian and Afro Caribbeans there, two were on our ward committee.

    It's 98% ethnic white today. 96%+ White British. There wasn't a single non white at my Primary School in the 70's.
    Hindley, Ashton, Abram, Winstanley and Billinge and Orrell were all UDC's with their own Town Council and Mayors before 1974. I consider them to be towns. There are fields and fields between each of them. And occasionally stand alone villages.
    Towards the north it begins to merge into Wigan around Highfield, Winstanley and Worsley Mesnes.
    I have also door-knocked almost entirely white communities and been told there is an immediate crisis with too many immigrants.

    It doesn't matter that they do not see immigrants on their street and in their community. What they see are public services run down and defunded, and the physical landscape crumbling around them. And then on Facebook / Instagram / Twitter they see that migrants are responsible for this enshittification.

    Thus they suffer the problems caused by migrants without there actually being any migrants. It makes no sense if you apply facts or logic, but this is now an emotional problem amongst the people who don't know how stuff works and don't want to know how it works.
    We are seeing the biggest demographic transformation in our island's history. It's a bit naive to think it wouldn't be an issue with some people. And whilst many arrivals seek to integrate, many others have little to no interest in the indigenous culture.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781
    edited June 1
    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    Build some houses!
    This is a sobering article on housebulding

    https://kalkine.co.uk/news/general-news/why-are-uk-housebuilder-stocks-falling-today-and-is-btrw-the-biggest-risk
    The country absolutely needs a load more houses.
    We have 1m Neets needing training and work.
    We have 30,000 vacancies in construction.

    Replace council housing by building housing whilst training up tens of thousands of construction workers including much needed plumbers, electricians which are probably better careers than most graduate jobs already, and will become relatively even more desirable as Ai develops.
    I absolutely support moving young people into all aspects of construction jobs providing FE colleges in every town

    This is where success lies for many who will graduate into a never ending demand market and no doubt progress to starting their own business and not least of all with no student debt

    Blair 50% to go to university was a disaster

    I joined the police in 1964 without a degree, and most of our circle who were in nursing didn't either


    Heard on the radio that we have 600 sports journalist graduates every year. The total number of sports journalists in the UK is around 600.
    One of my grandsons graduated, from a British Uni, two years ago with a 2:1 in History. At time of writing he's managing a bar in Australia and thinking of retraining as an electrician.
    Problem is if everyone retrained as an electrician the law of supply and demand means that would soon collapse electricians wages and demand for them too
    If there were 2m houses a year being built, then the demand for electricians would also be higher.

    A gutting of planning law would be bad news only for the lawyers and consultants. No tears shed there…
    You say that without any knowledge of the UK. Reform voters do not on the whole want liberalised planning laws. They don’t want loads of building on green fields in their towns. They want the ability to reject development they don’t like.
    One of the most common comments you see from Reformy types on Facebook is “we don’t need this, we need X” in respect of any new proposed development.
    Reform supporters are actually pretty consistent.

    They have realised that all the building (and there has been a huge amount of housebuilding in the last 15 years or so) is only happening to keep pace with the population growth from immigration. Indeed, there has been so much immigration that the cost of housing has gone up, because people have arrived faster than we've added to the housing stock.

    Logically, if there's no immigration, and birth rates are such that we have a static or shrinking population, we shouldn't need to keep expanding the housing supply.

    I used to think we needed to bin most of the rules around planning permission and building regs to get house prices under control. I've never liked the idea of building nasty Barrett wonders everywhere, but I used to think it was necessary. I've since had something of a damascene conversion, and realised that this is trying to solve the wrong end of the problem, it's much easier to reduce demand via almost completely stopping immigration than to keep concreting over green fields until the whole country becomes an extended version of the worst bits of Swindon.

    Much, not all, of the building is to keep pace with migration.

    Even if there were zero net migration we would still need massive house building for two reasons.

    1 - Our chronic shortage would still exist.
    2 - Demographic change*.

    Demand would not rise anywhere near as rapidly without migration, but demographic changes alone mean we still need construction even without population growth and even without addressing the pre-existing chronic shortage.

    * People live longer now, which means they live longer without kids. People who had a family home decades ago still live in their home, but their grandchildren/great-grandchildren also need their own family homes now too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,606
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    For all the Moonraker fans on PB.

    The Battle of Moonraker base is never the same once you learn the truth:

    The dolls inside each space suit were surplus Fonzarelli action figures from Happy Days.

    The staff kept triggering the sound effect the doll made which they incorporated into the scene.

    So next time you see one of the astronauts hit by a laser and spinning off into space, you can now hear The Fonze giving the thumbs-up saying “Aaay!”…

    https://x.com/TotherChris/status/2061124872764346479

    (I have no idea if this is true.)

    I'm going to call "shenanigans" on that. The epic space station EVA battle is the peak of British special effects of the period (miniatures, everything in-camera) and looking at the final result there us plainly not a single "aargh" cry: to my ears it sounds like at least three distinct cries. Incidentally, the Wilhelm Scream isn't used either. Also incidentally, they should have made the bad guy lasers a different colour to the good guy lasers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5v7ng0o4A

    I'm not sure - listen around 1min in.
    They "incorporated" it into the scene still seems semi-plausible.

    Also this is the vacuum of space; there should be no sound. And laser beams are essentially invisible.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,938

    Many want to avoid culture war issues which of course leaves the terrain to others.

    What of the kirpan? Excuse my ignorance but I genuinely was not aware that there was a religious exemption on the laws regarding the carrying of dangerous weapons. More surprisingly I can't seem to find any restrictions on the sort of knife that can be carried. Surely that isn't sustainable in a country that has taken such a draconian position on the carrying of dangerous weapons? As usual Fraser Nelson pop ups to defend religious liberty but does he not understand that could mean pretty much anything? There is increasing irritation at these exemptions because people see it as granting special privileges to others. If you are in a country where 95% of people have a religious faith, defending other's freedoms for the sake of your own makes sense. But when an increasingly large number of people have no religion they will quite understandably resent it. There are certain things I don't much like such as halal or kosher slaughter (I understand most halal is now pre stunned in some form) but we tolerate it for the sake of harmony. There have to be limits though. Religious belief cannot be used to justify anything.

    I have a prediction. Given the favourable status they enjoy, we may see new religions emerge. What about Femaleism? A religion that allows it's adherents to carry pepper spray?

    Its been settled law for 28 years without those new religions emerging or many serious incidents before this murder. However, I would suggest a legal limit on the length of the kirpan is appropriate. They are typically 3-6 inches, I'd suggest a limit of 3 or 4.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    Jack McConnell, the one former Scottish First Minister with an intact reputation, is calling for a joint parliamentary inquiry into Murrell-gate.

    I think this will run and run, despite Swinney trying to close it down. Given that SNP were in receipt of considerable amounts of taxpayers' money (Short money), there seems to be no reason why not to proceed.

    From The Scotsman:

    "This is about the fact that the SNP were the third largest party at Westminster for the best part of 10 years. They received over that time millions of pounds of public money to organise their party affairs.

    "Obviously there are also issues about signing off accounts, and how seriously that was all taken, and I think on all these areas there are issues to be looked at, and recommendations that must be made. So I think this should be a joint public inquiry.

    "I think it should probably be led by the public accounts committee of the House of Commons but it should be done equally and jointly with the equivalent committee at Holyrood so it’s not seen to be the UK Parliament poking its nose into Scottish politics, but the issues about political party funding, about public money, and about the way in which the transparency of political parties’ use of small donations, the protection for small donors.

    "These are issues that are UK-wide. They’re issues for the Electoral Commission and for the UK parliament."

    Here's the problem: SNP voters Don't Care. There is no corruption in Scottish politics other than the Westminster authorities. No money for your council because the SNP choose to underfund it? That's the fault of Westminster not funding Scotland properly. NHS and Education declining on every measure? Would be fixed with Independence. Wasted vast sums on an incompetent ferry procurement strategy which leaves some islands practically cut off? See that Anas Sarwar - blame him.

    Etc.

    So what that the CEO of the SNP was a crook and they have failed to deliver the thing the funds were supposedly donated for. At least they're not English. Etc. And as all the parties pushing this enquiry are English (e.g Scottish Labour) then it further proves that its all a conspiracy by Westminster to subjugate the Scottish people.

    Etc.
    If one buys into your piss coloured spectacles reading of the situtation, one might think that the unionist parties with their massive support from the press and media (including the state broadcaster) might review why their support is continuing to decline.
    But no.

    Here's a Scotch issue that might be of passing concern to you. Prediction: despite broadcasting being a devolved matter, Yoonery will immediately default to 'Why isn't the SNP fixing this' rather than using whatever shrivelled influence thay have at Westminster to change the situation.



    https://x.com/Detroit67Book/status/2061398249299136967?s=20
    You appear to be confusing me with unionists. I am not a unionist and neither is my party.

    So, back on topic. More money per head than England and worse results.

    Is that the fault of (a) England or (b) the Scottish government?
    Didn;t you vote for a unionist party (sotto voce) in the last election, and one apparently more in tune with your inclinations?
    I voted LibDem and now have a LD MSP.

    Again with the point, we can't go on declining whilst the government are refusing to take any responsibility. We want stuff to get better. I can't even say it's better than in England - not with Education or Health any more. With grotesque regional biases based on where the SNP are hosing the cash. How can it make any sense for Glasgow to get more funding per pupil for school transport than Aberdeenshire? How many Glasgow kids need a 10 mile bus ride to school each day like mine do?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,752
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    For all the Moonraker fans on PB.

    The Battle of Moonraker base is never the same once you learn the truth:

    The dolls inside each space suit were surplus Fonzarelli action figures from Happy Days.

    The staff kept triggering the sound effect the doll made which they incorporated into the scene.

    So next time you see one of the astronauts hit by a laser and spinning off into space, you can now hear The Fonze giving the thumbs-up saying “Aaay!”…

    https://x.com/TotherChris/status/2061124872764346479

    (I have no idea if this is true.)

    I'm going to call "shenanigans" on that. The epic space station EVA battle is the peak of British special effects of the period (miniatures, everything in-camera) and looking at the final result there us plainly not a single "aargh" cry: to my ears it sounds like at least three distinct cries. Incidentally, the Wilhelm Scream isn't used either. Also incidentally, they should have made the bad guy lasers a different colour to the good guy lasers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5v7ng0o4A

    I'm not sure - listen around 1min in.
    They "incorporated" it into the scene still seems semi-plausible.

    Also this is the vacuum of space; there should be no sound. And laser beams are essentially invisible.
    Er, have you not seen Star Wars?
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,947
    edited June 1

    scampi25 said:

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    You don't understand people!
    I'm not saying this doesn't happen, simply that it's not a valid reason in and of itself. Of course, people freak out about all sorts of things all the time. I am not unaware of how people behave.
    It’s sadly common for men to use non-English to talk about women, in front of the women, in disgusting terms.

    And even get offended, when they discover later that the women understood the language in question.
    This may surprise you, but men also say disgusting things about women, in front of them as well as behind their backs and on the internet, in English. There is this thing called misogyny.
    There is also this thing called xenophobia, which leads people to assume the worst of other people based on them being "foreign". Neither are particularly useful or attractive forms of behaviour.
    Surely this is rational behavior. If you are out and about in a bit of a dodgy place, especially if you are a woman going alone, meeting a group of young men can be a little bit threatening, because there is maybe a 1% chance they are scumbags who will try and interfere with you for some reason.

    If they are speaking English, you can probably understand what they are are saying, and that helps you assess the true threat level. If they're just talking about the footy, the threat levels drops considerably. If they're talking about your presence, or appearance, you've got a problem, and it may be time to run.

    If they are speaking a foreign language, you can't make that assessment, and so it's rational to perceive and treat the threat risk as higher, even if there is no variation in the propensity to misbehave between different nationalities.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148

    scampi25 said:

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    OllyT said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Labour lost touch with working people long ago. Took them for granted.

    It is as much that the WWC have moved away from Labour rather than the other way around.

    How on earth can a left of centre party appeal to people who want Farage as PM without shredding most of what it believes in?
    There are still 16-18% who support the Greens and a similar number who are standard Labour. It's just about 25% who make you want to leave the country and have nothing more to do with it. Listening to the vox-pops in Makerfield is as about as depressing as it gets.
    Frankly I'm more far more depressed by those who think the boob whisperer is the solution to any problem....

    They seem to think more of exactly what has caused the economic (entitlements and state spending) and societal problems (immigration) is just the ticket. My drinking pals are mostly relatively left wing; when we have a bit of back and forth at the pub, the thing that always unites us is how the Greens are just on another planet....
    On one of the vox-pops a girl said . '....there were these lads walking in front of us and they were speaking a foreign language....it was very scary'. I think Andy Burnham might be taking on more than he bargained for.
    You just do not understand the intimidation young women feel these days do you ?
    There are many reasons for women to feel intimidated by men but the men speaking a language other than English isn't one of them.
    You don't understand people!
    I'm not saying this doesn't happen, simply that it's not a valid reason in and of itself. Of course, people freak out about all sorts of things all the time. I am not unaware of how people behave.
    It’s sadly common for men to use non-English to talk about women, in front of the women, in disgusting terms.

    And even get offended, when they discover later that the women understood the language in question.
    This may surprise you, but men also say disgusting things about women, in front of them as well as behind their backs and on the internet, in English. There is this thing called misogyny.
    There is also this thing called xenophobia, which leads people to assume the worst of other people based on them being "foreign". Neither are particularly useful or attractive forms of behaviour.
    Some women say disgusting things about men as well.
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