“Eli Lilly released retatrutide Phase 3 data yesterday. 28% weight loss in 80 weeks. The most powerful obesity drug that’s ever been tested.
And today the cancer signal drops.
12,112 patients. Seven tumor types. GLP-1 users had half the lung cancer metastasis rate (10% vs 22%). Breast cancer: 43% cut. Colon cancer five-year mortality in a separate study: 15.5% vs 37.1%.
Cancer joins a list that already includes heart disease (SELECT, 20% MACE reduction), kidney failure (FLOW, 24% slower decline), sleep apnea (SURMOUNT-OSA, FDA-approved), addiction (BMJ, 600K veterans, 18-25% reduction across substances), and liver disease (86% fat clearance).
Tumors express GLP-1 receptors. Activate them and NF-kB drops, apoptosis rises. The drug isn’t just shrinking fat. It’s talking directly to the cancer.
One drug class. Designed for blood sugar. The biology keeps finding uses the designers didn’t predict.”
It’s beginning to look like these drugs are up there with the first anti-biotics. Or way beyond. Maybe everyone should be on them
TRANSPARENCY: I’m on one of them. I’m on Mounjaro. It was originally to lose weight but that’s happened. Now it’s to heal my liver and reduce the booze intake (which had to happen). It works. My drinking has probably halved
So just the 20 units a day now.
Roughly, yes. But that’s better than 40
Also I now wait til AFTER breakfast to start on the Montrachet
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
The stuff the Tories tried to pull? Which was what?
Betting on a July election the day before it was announced.
Lots of people did that. And are the police really still investigating? And besides, I'm pretty sure anyone betting on the date of the election is just trying to win money, not change the outcome. I know I was.
15 people charged. Trials due to start next year on ‘27.
For personal gain, presumably, not trying to change the outcome. And I find it an interesting thing. If Foxy watches Leicester City and can discern that they will be relegated, passes that info on, and I profit is that much different from a staffer in No 10 hearing a rumour that Sunsk has taken the decision to call the election?
It is very different. However you have chosen an interesting example.
The reality is everyone knows the season will end in May and three teams will be relegated. You and Foxy can follow the form and so can anyone else. The news cycle can add hope by reporting that West Brom are due a points deduction for breaching fair play rules and no one would know the penalty until either the end of the season and no one would know that penalty which could be anything up to ten points. Therefore despite Foxy's form guide anything could happen. The important thing is anyone could take that information and make, effectively, an informed "guess".Despite the quality of Foxy's form guide nothing yet is a forgone conclusion.
On the other hand if Leicester are ten points behind the Baggies with two games to play and the news is overheard before release that the Baggies are only getting a two point deduction, but we (the general punter population) don't know that, and a furtive bet is made from inside the EFL that Leicester will be relegated, would be insider betting. Likewise the Downing Street issue if several people see a document left on the photocopier "General Election, July 4th" and make the bet, they are betting on a foregone conclusion that only they know about and the rest of us don't they are cheating (for personal gain).
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Look we all know it takes a thief to catch a thief. So to combat fraud President Trump has willingly sacrificed himself to the nation by trying every fraud possible to ensure he has all the skills required to combat fraud.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
You're one of our more interesting posters, and I hope you stick around.
There's a curious dichotomy in politics - while pocketbook issues strongly tend to decide elections, the link between good economic policy and outcomes is too distant (either temporally or as a matter of simple compressibility) for most voters. Social issues tend to dominate political identification, or perceived identification.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Would you accept he's the most corrupt President is US history?
FAKE NEWS from the RADICAL LEFT LUNATICS!! Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
His approach to fraud is certainly novel. He's in-sourced the whole sector.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
You know when you see vox pops and start thinking oh dear !
Unusually they found someone who did make a useful comment !
The woman said she was worried about Reform Restore splitting the vote and allowing Labour to win the seat .
It's a common sentiment - see our own Lucky on the last thread.
It was a Labour seat until the by-election was called and Labour has a massive majority. So the real concern is that if Labour win it again Mr Burnham may well become PM. It's pretty clear that SKS will be replaced anyway so all a Labour loss would achieve is to constrain the field of candidates.
That's the best and most hilarious outcone for me. Burnham to fail. The king across the water holed below the waterline.
Labour are done for , from the derision over the get £5 off your zoo visit to that Bozo Milliband wrecking the oil and gas business by importing expensive crap, You could not make up how tin eared these thick as mince muppets are. labour should never ever be allowed any control of anything again, they are just clowns.
Cutting VAT on theme park tickets is the most contemptible bread and circuses nonsense and I think it'll be treated with the derision it deserves.
It’s probably better at this point just to abolish VAT on restaurants and entertainment venues completely.
No companies are passing on this VAT cut in full, they’re all facing massive extra costs because of NI and min wage increases passed last year.
Over on my other forum I read (*cough AccountingWeb* cough - what was Leon just saying about us saddos posting here?) the prevaling thought is that this is a dick move. Three months, everyone will get it wrong, and most of it won't be passed on at all but used to offset the reduced profits/losses these businesses are already making.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously. The rest requires some evidence; good luck.
Ukraine thanks them very much for this decision, as they now know that every truck on the road is a legitimate military target.
One of the most obvious signs that Russia is now losing the war. Kerch Bridge is effectively closed to freight (the ferries have all been sunk too) and the alternative artery into Crimea is now a death trap due to the longer range drones.
If Putin had any sense, he'd trade Crimea for the Donbas. Not expecting it however...
People have always argued that Crimea is Putin's sine qua non with respect to Ukraine. That ignores how geographically vulnerable it is.
Currently you can't get either petrol or diesel in Crimea.
Not much point in having a warm-water port if you don't have a navy left to base there. Other than that, it is just a place for Russians to go for their holibobs. Amongst the bombs and the burning hydrocarbons drifting across the sky and the rest of the oil washing up on the beaches. Sounds heavenly (or maybe it soon will be, when compared to Moscow...)
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
His approach to fraud is certainly novel. He's in-sourced the whole sector.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously. The rest requires some evidence; good luck.
In the spirit of the good faith I spoke of earlier, as a supporter of Trump vs. the alternatives, I will certainly concede that Trump is the most venal of all the US Presidents (that I know of) by a country mile, to what seems like the point of obsession. I don't see how he can ever possibly ever enjoy all the zeros in his bank account.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
His approach to fraud is certainly novel. He's in-sourced the whole sector.
Mussolini, of course, made the trains run on time. Important, I understand in 20's & 30's Italy.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously. The rest requires some evidence; good luck.
The irony of course is that there is reason to think Trump genuinely is controlled by a criminal Jewish organisation. Namely Likud.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
His approach to fraud is certainly novel. He's in-sourced the whole sector.
Oh dear. The Reform adjacency didn't last long.
Oh shit yes sorry. That was pretty pathetic. All of 10 minutes and I'm back to my comfort zone of combatting the organised far right in all its forms, the policies that succour it, in the places most susceptible (royalties to that excellent campaigning group with a charitable arm Hope Not Hate).
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously.
Trump clearly isn't Hitler.
But the question is whether he isn't Hitler because of the much stronger traditional and constitutional protections against dictatorship in the United States than in Weimar Germany, because doing so wouldn't work because Hitler in the end failed, or because of genuine moral repugnance at what Hitler achieved?
98% of people, even if they became President, would fall into the latter bucket.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
There's more than one PB herd - the stop being nasty to righties for example, and the right of centre dads endlessly moaning about centrist dads for another.
And to think the Verve once said ‘The Drugs Don’t Work’
“Eli Lilly released retatrutide Phase 3 data yesterday. 28% weight loss in 80 weeks. The most powerful obesity drug that’s ever been tested.
And today the cancer signal drops.
12,112 patients. Seven tumor types. GLP-1 users had half the lung cancer metastasis rate (10% vs 22%). Breast cancer: 43% cut. Colon cancer five-year mortality in a separate study: 15.5% vs 37.1%.
Cancer joins a list that already includes heart disease (SELECT, 20% MACE reduction), kidney failure (FLOW, 24% slower decline), sleep apnea (SURMOUNT-OSA, FDA-approved), addiction (BMJ, 600K veterans, 18-25% reduction across substances), and liver disease (86% fat clearance).
Tumors express GLP-1 receptors. Activate them and NF-kB drops, apoptosis rises. The drug isn’t just shrinking fat. It’s talking directly to the cancer.
One drug class. Designed for blood sugar. The biology keeps finding uses the designers didn’t predict.”
It’s beginning to look like these drugs are up there with the first anti-biotics. Or way beyond. Maybe everyone should be on them
TRANSPARENCY: I’m on one of them. I’m on Mounjaro. It was originally to lose weight but that’s happened. Now it’s to heal my liver and reduce the booze intake (which had to happen). It works. My drinking has probably halved
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously. The rest requires some evidence; good luck.
The irony of course is that there is reason to think Trump genuinely is controlled by a criminal Jewish organisation. Namely Likud.
I suspect it is other world leaders who have Trump put in his place.
“Eli Lilly released retatrutide Phase 3 data yesterday. 28% weight loss in 80 weeks. The most powerful obesity drug that’s ever been tested.
And today the cancer signal drops.
12,112 patients. Seven tumor types. GLP-1 users had half the lung cancer metastasis rate (10% vs 22%). Breast cancer: 43% cut. Colon cancer five-year mortality in a separate study: 15.5% vs 37.1%.
Cancer joins a list that already includes heart disease (SELECT, 20% MACE reduction), kidney failure (FLOW, 24% slower decline), sleep apnea (SURMOUNT-OSA, FDA-approved), addiction (BMJ, 600K veterans, 18-25% reduction across substances), and liver disease (86% fat clearance).
Tumors express GLP-1 receptors. Activate them and NF-kB drops, apoptosis rises. The drug isn’t just shrinking fat. It’s talking directly to the cancer.
One drug class. Designed for blood sugar. The biology keeps finding uses the designers didn’t predict.”
It’s beginning to look like these drugs are up there with the first anti-biotics. Or way beyond. Maybe everyone should be on them
TRANSPARENCY: I’m on one of them. I’m on Mounjaro. It was originally to lose weight but that’s happened. Now it’s to heal my liver and reduce the booze intake (which had to happen). It works. My drinking has probably halved
So just the 20 units a day now.
You can’t buy class.
If you ask at the local corner shop they can probably get some for you.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously. The rest requires some evidence; good luck.
The irony of course is that there is reason to think Trump genuinely is controlled by a criminal Jewish organisation. Namely Likud.
Well if you believe the NYT report about the decision to start this absurd war is true he was mugged off by Bibi and Mossad into going for it.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously.
Trump clearly isn't Hitler.
But the question is whether he isn't Hitler because of the much stronger traditional and constitutional protections against dictatorship in the United States than in Weimar Germany, because doing so wouldn't work because Hitler in the end failed, or because of genuine moral repugnance at what Hitler achieved?
98% of people, even if they became President, would fall into the latter bucket.
But Trump could belong in the other 2%.
You don't have to be Hitler to be an authoritarian with contempt for democracy.
“Eli Lilly released retatrutide Phase 3 data yesterday. 28% weight loss in 80 weeks. The most powerful obesity drug that’s ever been tested.
And today the cancer signal drops.
12,112 patients. Seven tumor types. GLP-1 users had half the lung cancer metastasis rate (10% vs 22%). Breast cancer: 43% cut. Colon cancer five-year mortality in a separate study: 15.5% vs 37.1%.
Cancer joins a list that already includes heart disease (SELECT, 20% MACE reduction), kidney failure (FLOW, 24% slower decline), sleep apnea (SURMOUNT-OSA, FDA-approved), addiction (BMJ, 600K veterans, 18-25% reduction across substances), and liver disease (86% fat clearance).
Tumors express GLP-1 receptors. Activate them and NF-kB drops, apoptosis rises. The drug isn’t just shrinking fat. It’s talking directly to the cancer.
One drug class. Designed for blood sugar. The biology keeps finding uses the designers didn’t predict.”
It’s beginning to look like these drugs are up there with the first anti-biotics. Or way beyond. Maybe everyone should be on them
TRANSPARENCY: I’m on one of them. I’m on Mounjaro. It was originally to lose weight but that’s happened. Now it’s to heal my liver and reduce the booze intake (which had to happen). It works. My drinking has probably halved
So just the 20 units a day now.
You can’t buy class.
If you ask at the local corner shop they can probably get some for you.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously.
Trump clearly isn't Hitler.
But the question is whether he isn't Hitler because of the much stronger traditional and constitutional protections against dictatorship in the United States than in Weimar Germany, because doing so wouldn't work because Hitler in the end failed, or because of genuine moral repugnance at what Hitler achieved?
98% of people, even if they became President, would fall into the latter bucket.
But Trump could belong in the other 2%.
You don't have to be Hitler to be an authoritarian with contempt for democracy.
Indeed. And "stronger traditional and constitutional protections" only work if people with power are prepared to stand up and defend them. Trump has pushed over many of those barriers, and those that follow will do more.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
Just as I predicted. Reform's latest strategy is to get The National Pulse, a US based MAGA web site - run by former Nigel Farage aide @RaheemKassam - to start attacking the Makerfield charity and its director. Top strategy guys...
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
If we are doing things on good faith, then how about an acknowledgement that not only did Labour campaign to reduce immigration, they have also actually done so quickly and substantially. Not heard a single anti-immigration poster give them an iota of credit for it. Responses so far fall into - its all Sunaks great work, they are the wrong type of migrants, it needs to be lower still and even send the people not born here "home".
Just as I predicted. Reform's latest strategy is to get The National Pulse, a US based MAGA web site - run by former Nigel Farage aide @RaheemKassam - to start attacking the Makerfield charity and its director. Top strategy guys...
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
Can we raise a vote of thanks to HNH for being brilliant ?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
The fact that Reform is represented by a disproportionately large number of out-and-out racists, and Labour (in government) is socially regressive doesn't square with the self perception, and it can be very difficult to manage (often strident, often accurate) critiques from "the other side".
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
The fact that Reform is represented by a disproportionately large number of out-and-out racists, and Labour (in government) is socially regressive doesn't square with the self perception, and it can be very difficult to manage (often strident, often accurate) critiques from "the other side".
Interesting comment, and worth dwelling on, but far too nuanced for PB.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
Depending on terms of reference in some respect Trump appears even more unedifying. This by the way is not a defence of Hitler, probably alongside Stalin the most evil human of the modern era.
Hitler, despite being a despicable, murderous genocidal war criminal, white supremacist and ruthless totalitarian bastard did occasionally demonstrate hints of humanity, like his love of dogs. He would not have covered the Reichstag in gold leaf and he would have built another autobahn and not a thousand seat gin palace on the East Wing of the Reichstag for his party donors. Yes, Hitler preferred austere architecture but that was merely a lifestyle choice rather than a nod to self-idolatory.
If we were allowed to ignore Hitler's body count (which clearly we can't) otherwise Trump would be in my view an even worse human than Adolf with the one ball. Trump has not one redeeming quality. Trump is an Al Capone style hood who got lucky. We vilify the late Jimmy Savile for his crimes. Evidence so far from the Epstein Files suggests (that except for the Savile necrophilia) Trump allegedly ( but with evidence) committed equally vile alleged sexual outrages with children, including widespread, but absolutely unconfirmed, accusations about his history with his own daughter when she was a minor. Murdering Carribbean fishermen, Iranian schoolgirls and civilians on the streets of Minnesota in the President's name may not be the genocide of Jews and Romanies, but from little acorns, giant oak trees grow. He's not finished yet.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs.
Housing is the obvious example. We don’t tax gains on primary residences because if we did at 45%, people simply wouldn’t move. The market would freeze up. High taxes reduce liquidity, and illiquid markets stop functioning properly.
So in general, you want taxes on capital low enough to encourage investment and movement of capital. That’s what will drive growth and job creation in the UK. Yes, some people benefit more than others, but the alternative is slower growth and a poorer country overall. Which is what we have now.
Your point about foreign ownership of British businesses is really a separate issue. But it’s a fair question: e.g. why are so many rail operators and power assets and so on run by foreign state-owned companies? What are they getting right that we aren’t, and should strategic sectors be treated differently in the national interest? Another problem is that for Brits the housing market is a shibboleth. In other countries (like the US) people tend to put their wealth into equities. Here, we put it all into houses. This would only get worse if equities were taxed at 45% and primary residences at 0%...
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
Trump isn't Hitler, obviously.
Trump clearly isn't Hitler.
But the question is whether he isn't Hitler because of the much stronger traditional and constitutional protections against dictatorship in the United States than in Weimar Germany, because doing so wouldn't work because Hitler in the end failed, or because of genuine moral repugnance at what Hitler achieved?
98% of people, even if they became President, would fall into the latter bucket.
But Trump could belong in the other 2%.
I think Trump is without redeeming feature on a personal level. But his main ambition seems to be lining his own pockets. Removing him from power when the time comes will probably be the biggest challenge.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
If we are doing things on good faith, then how about an acknowledgement that not only did Labour campaign to reduce immigration, they have also actually done so quickly and substantially. Not heard a single anti-immigration poster give them an iota of credit for it. Responses so far fall into - its all Sunaks great work, they are the wrong type of migrants, it needs to be lower still and even send the people not born here "home".
Aaaand back to the relentless Woke drivel. You, @bondegezou, @kinabalu and the others. A droning, flatulent chorus designed to bore everyone into submission
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
You last sentence is equally applicable to Starmer Labour. Call a spade a spade or a Reform voter a racist.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
You last sentence is equally applicable to Starmer Labour. Call a spade a spade or a Reform voter a racist.
In the case of ‘Lovely Jill’s she’s just calling it a big tool.
Rachel Reeves has launched a rearguard action to save her job as chancellor, telling friends she would like to stay in the post even under a new prime minister.
The chancellor’s supporters have been urging MPs to back her if Keir Starmer is replaced later this year, saying she is the only candidate who can safeguard the country’s finances.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
If we are doing things on good faith, then how about an acknowledgement that not only did Labour campaign to reduce immigration, they have also actually done so quickly and substantially. Not heard a single anti-immigration poster give them an iota of credit for it. Responses so far fall into - its all Sunaks great work, they are the wrong type of migrants, it needs to be lower still and even send the people not born here "home".
Aaaand back to the relentless Woke drivel. You, @bondegezou, @kinabalu and the others. A droning, flatulent chorus designed to bore everyone into submission
Later
Mahmood is the best Home Secretary the Tories never had.
Harder than the wets not brutal like the Rabid. Right Fascist and downright nasty element
If Burnham has any sense he'll leave her and Reeves in situ but with a mandate to be more progressive where possible
Gain a foothold on key issues, form a majority Government in 2028 to ensure Farage is out on agegrounds, see the Tories down to 50 seats.
Deliver a 5 year manifesto on closer EU integration, a referendum on PR, a concerted drive to align health and social care and bringing water back in to public ownership and complete revision of Council Tax banding and calculation, aligning Income and CGT to same rate, combining NI and Income Tax
“Eli Lilly released retatrutide Phase 3 data yesterday. 28% weight loss in 80 weeks. The most powerful obesity drug that’s ever been tested.
And today the cancer signal drops.
12,112 patients. Seven tumor types. GLP-1 users had half the lung cancer metastasis rate (10% vs 22%). Breast cancer: 43% cut. Colon cancer five-year mortality in a separate study: 15.5% vs 37.1%.
Cancer joins a list that already includes heart disease (SELECT, 20% MACE reduction), kidney failure (FLOW, 24% slower decline), sleep apnea (SURMOUNT-OSA, FDA-approved), addiction (BMJ, 600K veterans, 18-25% reduction across substances), and liver disease (86% fat clearance).
Tumors express GLP-1 receptors. Activate them and NF-kB drops, apoptosis rises. The drug isn’t just shrinking fat. It’s talking directly to the cancer.
One drug class. Designed for blood sugar. The biology keeps finding uses the designers didn’t predict.”
It’s beginning to look like these drugs are up there with the first anti-biotics. Or way beyond. Maybe everyone should be on them
TRANSPARENCY: I’m on one of them. I’m on Mounjaro. It was originally to lose weight but that’s happened. Now it’s to heal my liver and reduce the booze intake (which had to happen). It works. My drinking has probably halved
So just the 20 units a day now.
You can’t buy class.
I dunno, buckshee holidays to exotic and expensive locations comes close.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Would you accept he's the most corrupt President is US history?
I’m willing to discuss specific allegations of corruption.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
My view is that the kind of party that you would wish to see in power has no prospect of being elected in a rich world democracy.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Would you accept he's the most corrupt President is US history?
I’m willing to discuss specific allegations of corruption.
A $1.776B payment by the Government to January 6th convicts on its own meets the most corrupt President in history criteria I would have thought.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
You last sentence is equally applicable to Starmer Labour. Call a spade a spade or a Reform voter a racist.
The thing is I don't know a lot of Reform voters. So it's hard to say they are racists. Perhaps you know more than I do? And it's a little much for Dura to sneer at thick as shit voters when he'll quite happily lean in to the pro Palestine mob.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
You last sentence is equally applicable to Starmer Labour. Call a spade a spade or a Reform voter a racist.
The thing is I don't know a lot of Reform voters. So it's hard to say they are racists. Perhaps you know more than I do? And it's a little much for Dura to sneer at thick as shit voters when he'll quite happily lean in to the pro Palestine mob.
Living in South Wales and working out of an office in a RedWall heartland I know and work alongside voters who have jettisoned Labour and the post-Johnson Conservatives and to a man (and they are all.men) the common denominator is they are scared of people with a higher level of melatonin in their skin. By the way before that they didn't like swarthy Europeans.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
You last sentence is equally applicable to Starmer Labour. Call a spade a spade or a Reform voter a racist.
The thing is I don't know a lot of Reform voters. So it's hard to say they are racists. Perhaps you know more than I do? And it's a little much for Dura to sneer at thick as shit voters when he'll quite happily lean in to the pro Palestine mob.
Living in South Wales and working out of an office in a RedWall heartland I know and work alongside voters who have jettisoned Labour and the post-Johnson Conservatives and to a man (and they are all.men) the common denominator is they are scared of people with a higher level of melatonin in their skin. By the way before that they didn't like swarthy Europeans.
Funny that. I lived and worked in a similar area in terms of it being red wall and it was the resentment at the prosperity being focussed on the south while we withered on the vine that was the issue here.
Why can’t we have some of that.
Maybe south wales is more predisposed to racism than the North East.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The trouble is you won't get any purchase unless you acknowledge people have legitimate concerns about migration and cultural change. If the vast majority of people arriving in the UK were liberal humanists with modern views on gender relations it wouldn't matter so much.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
15 charged with $90m in fraud in Minnesota. Charged by a grand jury, not a youtube channel.
They look like a formidable election winning machine. I could foresee them seizing power in coalition with Alba, Your Party and Change UK.
I admire those trying to make a go of a new party, it's not easy particularly in our system. But sometimes there just isn't a distinct audience for what they are offering.
Of the four I'd say Your Party had the biggest opportunity as there was such an audience, they just waited too long and were too incompetent once they got going, compounded by the somewhat inexplicable rise of Polanski (inexplicable mostly because I don't see what the Greens are offering now they were not 10 years ago).
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
How does one distinguish between tribalist performativeness and genuine opinion, however? Some people are centrist dads.
Lack of interest outside one's own tribe is not an easy problem to fix, and hardly confined to the centre, centre left, or centre right. Individual policies don't really seem to matter either, it's down to vibes.
I do recommend reading about other parties though, I got some good laughs out of the SDP manifesto in 2024.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
No, I agree. But she is, like Starmer, weaseling around in its vicinity trying to say nothing that will quite scare off any of the voters.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
She can't speak the truth
Her personality traits are arrogance and refusal to apologise for her errors
Argumentative and unable to grasp the fact she's not always right and others aren't always wrong.
In a nutshell a terrifying lack of emotional maturity.
The Violet Elizabeth of UK politics.
She's not as fundamentally evil and insane as Braverman and extreme and nasty as Pritti but that's a fecking very low bar.
Tory polling is stagnant and recent losses to lowest ever Council numbers suggest extermination.
Her complete lack of realism and truth on this perfectly sums her up.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Mr. F, cheers for that link. I'm a bit pushed for time but look forward to reading it soon.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
15 charged with $90m in fraud in Minnesota. Charged by a grand jury, not a youtube channel.
Grand juries are an interesting thing, closer to the origins of juries so I'm led to believe, I'm curious if other places have similar arrangements given we do not anymore.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
You last sentence is equally applicable to Starmer Labour. Call a spade a spade or a Reform voter a racist.
The thing is I don't know a lot of Reform voters. So it's hard to say they are racists. Perhaps you know more than I do? And it's a little much for Dura to sneer at thick as shit voters when he'll quite happily lean in to the pro Palestine mob.
Living in South Wales and working out of an office in a RedWall heartland I know and work alongside voters who have jettisoned Labour and the post-Johnson Conservatives and to a man (and they are all.men) the common denominator is they are scared of people with a higher level of melatonin in their skin. By the way before that they didn't like swarthy Europeans.
Funny that. I lived and worked in a similar area in terms of it being red wall and it was the resentment at the prosperity being focussed on the south while we withered on the vine that was the issue here.
Why can’t we have some of that.
Maybe south wales is more predisposed to racism than the North East.
I suspect that might be true. When I came to South Wales in 1986, save for the Somalis in Cardiff and the Carribbean of Tiger Bay there weren't that many dark faces around. Port Talbot is still 90% white, but many remain shit scared of asylum seekers. Reform and Restore's USP is immigration.
It has been interesting this week that current net immigration figures if you strip out students and anyone else on short term contracts that are committed to going home comes in at circa 70,000 net. One would have thought that people like Farage who have been banging on about "Boriswaves" for years would be pleased, but no. "It's the wrong kind of net immigration". It turns out that the metrics they are using of young white people leaving for Aussie and the Emirates is bollocks, but as immigration is the USP, confirmation that it is at a "more manageable" levels that is the last thing they need. If people stop being scared of immigrants Nigel's limited company goes South. They either need to change their terms of reference or find new scapegoats.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
15 charged with $90m in fraud in Minnesota. Charged by a grand jury, not a youtube channel.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Mr. F, cheers for that link. I'm a bit pushed for time but look forward to reading it soon.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
I expect that you are familiar with this excellent new book on Carthage. I very much enjoyed it.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Mr. F, cheers for that link. I'm a bit pushed for time but look forward to reading it soon.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
I expect that you are familiar with this excellent new book on Carthage. I very much enjoyed it.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
She can't speak the truth
Her personality traits are arrogance and refusal to apologise for her errors
Argumentative and unable to grasp the fact she's not always right and others aren't always wrong.
In a nutshell a terrifying lack of emotional maturity.
The Violet Elizabeth of UK politics.
She's not as fundamentally evil and insane as Braverman and extreme and nasty as Pritti but that's a fecking very low bar.
Tory polling is stagnant and recent losses to lowest ever Council numbers suggest extermination.
Her complete lack of realism and truth on this perfectly sums her up.
I wouldn't say extermination is on the cards, but in the next 3-5 years (absent a big turnaround 2026-2027, which seems improbable) they will need to decide if they are going to retreat to being the Blue LDs - standing in most places but highly concentrated in the areas they are actually competitive - or accept subordinate status to Reform through partnership or surrender.
You know when you see vox pops and start thinking oh dear !
Unusually they found someone who did make a useful comment !
The woman said she was worried about Reform Restore splitting the vote and allowing Labour to win the seat .
It's a common sentiment - see our own Lucky on the last thread.
It was a Labour seat until the by-election was called and Labour has a massive majority. So the real concern is that if Labour win it again Mr Burnham may well become PM. It's pretty clear that SKS will be replaced anyway so all a Labour loss would achieve is to constrain the field of candidates.
That's the best and most hilarious outcone for me. Burnham to fail. The king across the water holed below the waterline.
Labour are done for , from the derision over the get £5 off your zoo visit to that Bozo Milliband wrecking the oil and gas business by importing expensive crap, You could not make up how tin eared these thick as mince muppets are. labour should never ever be allowed any control of anything again, they are just clowns.
Cutting VAT on theme park tickets is the most contemptible bread and circuses nonsense and I think it'll be treated with the derision it deserves.
I agree, but we're still going to Chessington World Of Adventures anyway.
They look like a formidable election winning machine. I could foresee them seizing power in coalition with Alba, Your Party and Change UK.
I admire those trying to make a go of a new party, it's not easy particularly in our system. But sometimes there just isn't a distinct audience for what they are offering.
Of the four I'd say Your Party had the biggest opportunity as there was such an audience, they just waited too long and were too incompetent once they got going, compounded by the somewhat inexplicable rise of Polanski (inexplicable mostly because I don't see what the Greens are offering now they were not 10 years ago).
Infighting before they'd even launched fatally holed YP before they even got going. And Polanski was very quickly able to park his tanks on their lawn. I have to say I see the Greens as very different to the party I actually voted for in the London mayoral around 10 years ago (it's got much more to say about Gaza than climate change nowadays). The obvious contempt that Caroline Lucas has for Polanski is an indicator of this.
They look like a formidable election winning machine. I could foresee them seizing power in coalition with Alba, Your Party and Change UK.
I admire those trying to make a go of a new party, it's not easy particularly in our system. But sometimes there just isn't a distinct audience for what they are offering.
Of the four I'd say Your Party had the biggest opportunity as there was such an audience, they just waited too long and were too incompetent once they got going, compounded by the somewhat inexplicable rise of Polanski (inexplicable mostly because I don't see what the Greens are offering now they were not 10 years ago).
Infighting before they'd even launched fatally holed YP before they even got going. And Polanski was very quickly able to park his tanks on their lawn. I have to say I see the Greens as very different to the party I actually voted for in the London mayoral around 10 years ago (it's got much more to say about Gaza than climate change nowadays). The obvious contempt that Caroline Lucas has for Polanski is an indicator of this.
Your Party is also just a comically shit name. Even something bland like 'Party of the Left' would have been better.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
You last sentence is equally applicable to Starmer Labour. Call a spade a spade or a Reform voter a racist.
The thing is I don't know a lot of Reform voters. So it's hard to say they are racists. Perhaps you know more than I do? And it's a little much for Dura to sneer at thick as shit voters when he'll quite happily lean in to the pro Palestine mob.
Living in South Wales and working out of an office in a RedWall heartland I know and work alongside voters who have jettisoned Labour and the post-Johnson Conservatives and to a man (and they are all.men) the common denominator is they are scared of people with a higher level of melatonin in their skin. By the way before that they didn't like swarthy Europeans.
Funny that. I lived and worked in a similar area in terms of it being red wall and it was the resentment at the prosperity being focussed on the south while we withered on the vine that was the issue here.
Why can’t we have some of that.
Maybe south wales is more predisposed to racism than the North East.
I suspect that might be true. When I came to South Wales in 1986, save for the Somalis in Cardiff and the Carribbean of Tiger Bay there weren't that many dark faces around. Port Talbot is still 90% white, but many remsin shit scared of asylum seekers. Reform and Restore's USP is immigration.
It has been interesting this week that current net immigration figures if you strip out students and anyone else on short term contracts that are committed to going home comes in at circa 70,000. One would have thought that people like Farage who have been banging on about b"Boriswaves" for years would be pleased, but no. "It's the wrong kind of net immigration". It turns out that the metrics they are using of young white people bleaching for Aussie and the Emirates is bollocks, but as immigration is the USP confirmation that it is at a "more manageable" levels that is the last thing they need. If people stop being scared of immigrants Nigel's limited company does. They either need to change their terms of reference or find new scapegoats.
I think it fairly obvious that as net immigration drops (and probably dropped even further as these figures are already 5 months out of date), increasingly Reform and even more so Restore shift to outright racism against existing communities.
It is why Reform shrug off the Social Media posts of people like Kenyon. They want to normalise racism, misogyny etc.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Mr. F, cheers for that link. I'm a bit pushed for time but look forward to reading it soon.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
I expect that you are familiar with this excellent new book on Carthage. I very much enjoyed it.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Mr. F, cheers for that link. I'm a bit pushed for time but look forward to reading it soon.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
I expect that you are familiar with this excellent new book on Carthage. I very much enjoyed it.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
We're in a very difficult place here.
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
My not particularly well informed view from reading the tory knobheads on here, is that they actually prefer Fukker policies to tory ones. They can't have those policies in the tory party because Kemi can't sell that manky bill of goods with 10% of the elan and capacity that Big Nige can. Hence the somewhat dewy eyed reverence for the Fukkers that extends to pretending that their thick-as-shit, nylon clad voters are worthy of respect and even a hearing.
Kemi is certainly hampered by the fact that the press still have vague expectations that she should be speaking something close to the truth - a constraint with which The Clacton Horror is not encumbered.
She isn't choosing to speak the truth.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
She can't speak the truth
Her personality traits are arrogance and refusal to apologise for her errors
Argumentative and unable to grasp the fact she's not always right and others aren't always wrong.
In a nutshell a terrifying lack of emotional maturity.
The Violet Elizabeth of UK politics.
She's not as fundamentally evil and insane as Braverman and extreme and nasty as Pritti but that's a fecking very low bar.
Tory polling is stagnant and recent losses to lowest ever Council numbers suggest extermination.
Her complete lack of realism and truth on this perfectly sums her up.
That may be true, and I suspect it is*, but you have ignored my point that our party of choice are equally culpable in their pandering to Reform racists.
* Although don't forget Tories are like cockroaches and they can survive Armageddon.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
15 charged with $90m in fraud in Minnesota. Charged by a grand jury, not a youtube channel.
Is that not the result of an investigation started under Biden ?
A president credited for all manner of misdeeds which it's temporally impossible for him to have committed, and given no credit for his considerable achievements.
If you weren't being ironic, then you might also read this.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
If we are doing things on good faith, then how about an acknowledgement that not only did Labour campaign to reduce immigration, they have also actually done so quickly and substantially. Not heard a single anti-immigration poster give them an iota of credit for it. Responses so far fall into - its all Sunaks great work, they are the wrong type of migrants, it needs to be lower still and even send the people not born here "home".
Aaaand back to the relentless Woke drivel. You, @bondegezou, @kinabalu and the others. A droning, flatulent chorus designed to bore everyone into submission
Later
Apologies, I can't be bothered to learn how to post images here so unable to share the sight of my soap dish or drinking ornaments with the world.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, I think we can all agree Trump isn't Hitler.
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
15 charged with $90m in fraud in Minnesota. Charged by a grand jury, not a youtube channel.
Is that not the result of an investigation started under Biden ?
A president credited for all manner of misdeeds which it's temporally impossible for him to have committed, and given no credit for his considerable achievements.
Yeah, but he was very old, so, swings and roundabouts.
You know when you see vox pops and start thinking oh dear !
Unusually they found someone who did make a useful comment !
The woman said she was worried about Reform Restore splitting the vote and allowing Labour to win the seat .
It's a common sentiment - see our own Lucky on the last thread.
It was a Labour seat until the by-election was called and Labour has a massive majority. So the real concern is that if Labour win it again Mr Burnham may well become PM. It's pretty clear that SKS will be replaced anyway so all a Labour loss would achieve is to constrain the field of candidates.
That's the best and most hilarious outcone for me. Burnham to fail. The king across the water holed below the waterline.
Labour are done for , from the derision over the get £5 off your zoo visit to that Bozo Milliband wrecking the oil and gas business by importing expensive crap, You could not make up how tin eared these thick as mince muppets are. labour should never ever be allowed any control of anything again, they are just clowns.
Cutting VAT on theme park tickets is the most contemptible bread and circuses nonsense and I think it'll be treated with the derision it deserves.
I agree, but we're still going to Chessington World Of Adventures anyway.
We look forward to you reporting back on the scale of VAT related price cuts.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
HNH has campaigned against several Tories on several occasions. To be even more precise I could have said individuals, not parties, but frankly I think my construction was precise enough, and this sort of wilful hair-splitting is a good example of what I'm talking about - it seems you can't turn it off even as you're arguing against it.
Treating PB as a battleground for some sort of idiotic (and utterly fruitless - you haven't convinced a single person who didn't already agree with you) campaign, and treating posters here as fodder for your non-stop talking points and rebuttals, is fundamentally disrespectful and I can't possibly see how it's an enjoyable leisure activity for you.
You know when you see vox pops and start thinking oh dear !
Unusually they found someone who did make a useful comment !
The woman said she was worried about Reform Restore splitting the vote and allowing Labour to win the seat .
It's a common sentiment - see our own Lucky on the last thread.
It was a Labour seat until the by-election was called and Labour has a massive majority. So the real concern is that if Labour win it again Mr Burnham may well become PM. It's pretty clear that SKS will be replaced anyway so all a Labour loss would achieve is to constrain the field of candidates.
That's the best and most hilarious outcone for me. Burnham to fail. The king across the water holed below the waterline.
Labour are done for , from the derision over the get £5 off your zoo visit to that Bozo Milliband wrecking the oil and gas business by importing expensive crap, You could not make up how tin eared these thick as mince muppets are. labour should never ever be allowed any control of anything again, they are just clowns.
Cutting VAT on theme park tickets is the most contemptible bread and circuses nonsense and I think it'll be treated with the derision it deserves.
I agree, but we're still going to Chessington World Of Adventures anyway.
We look forward to you reporting back on the scale of VAT related price cuts.
As far as I can see it is win win. If businesses cut admission prices it helps visitors, if they don't then it improves their finances for the summer season. Either way it is good for our summer tourism economy.
We might reasonably ask why we couldn't do this year round.
Anyway, today's big question is whether Boro can win at Wembley at their sixth attempt. One piece of good news is that it looks as though Hayden Hackney will be back in the side today after two months out.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Nah...you dont have the cojones to stand behind-your-narcissistic-to-the-point-of-camp opinions. If no one is prepared to help TSE, Peter the Punter or OGH to become richer through backing their always wrong opinions with cash, its just another chat site. Doesn't matter what your opinions are, just have the courage of your demented far-right blow hard bullshit opinions and put some bawbees down.
Lets start easy: £20 that Fartage faces censure from the House of Commons and/or criminal charges within one year from today. What odds will you give me he wont?
Just shut the fuck up
Look, this site was for serious punters who were interested in and knowledgeable about politics and who were prepared to back their judgement. Some flouncy old closet case sharing his execrable interior design taste can surely find somewhere more suitable. I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election. What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win. Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
HNH has campaigned against several Tories on several occasions. To be even more precise I could have said individuals, not parties, but frankly I think my construction was precise enough, and this sort of wilful hair-splitting is a good example of what I'm talking about - it seems you can't turn it off even as you're arguing against it.
Treating PB as a battleground for some sort of idiotic (and utterly fruitless - you haven't convinced a single person who didn't already agree with you) campaign, and treating posters here as fodder for your non-stop talking points and rebuttals, is fundamentally disrespectful and I can't possibly see how it's an enjoyable leisure activity for you.
HNH is a limited company, like several political parties, so is not restricted to charitable causes. It isn't a charity, more similar in structure to groups like Migration Watch.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
The biggest issue here (and in long term investments like pensions) is the changes in regulatory regime, so long term planning becomes impossible. One requirement for growth is a stable investment environment. It almost matters more than the rate of taxation.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
£1m is fine for BADR relief. Neither making 100x your investment nor starting a business with solely £500k of a single individuals capital are remotely typical.
The biggest issue here (and in long term investments like pensions) is the changes in regulatory regime, so long term planning becomes impossible. One requirement for growth is a stable investment environment. It almost matters more than the rate of taxation.
Agreed. However we are not in a good place for that with PMs lasting a couple of years and searching for pennies down the sofa as the electorate won't tolerate reality.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
Well, quite. Can't say I agree with you on Trump but why bother expressing an unorthodox opinion when expressing any view outside of the norm turns into a pile on?
Being told I was a "leftist" poster the other day when I've spent years banging on about lower taxes and less regulation just because I'm socially liberal was quite an eye opener.
I have been meaning to apologise for that. It was a genuine moment of confusion following a helluva mental week. I am sorry.
No worries. Apology accepted and much appreciated.
The wider point about tribalism on this site stands though, I think people tend to consistently post "goodthink" for either the centrist dad tribe or the socially conservative tribe to gain likes, rather than say interesting stuff like "Well, I'm a low tax libertarian but actually the Greens are the only party seriously standing up for civil liberties in the UK - repeal of the online safety act, right to protest, legalisation of drugs etc so maybe I'll vote for them*"
*I won't actually vote for a party that plans to tax the economy into the ground.
I have been meaning to ask you about that capital gains thing, as a 'live' case study. I was shattered and couldn't really engage in the week.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
Honestly there's a few different things going on here....
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs...
I agree with a fair amount of your argument, but I think what's proposed would have some special treatment for that particular case ?
BADR (business asset disposal relief for the purpose of capital gains) was already reduced from a lifetime amount of 10m to 1m. So if you build something worth 50m that 1m will not make much difference - I know two people who have relocated to Dubai already as a result of exceeding this amount. If they want to propose something else like a "special accidental multimillionaire's relief for people who go from a 500k startup to a 50m valuation in 3 years" then OK but a) once we get into all these exemptions isn't that utter anathema to the "capital should be taxed the same as income" mob currently driving policy thinking and b) relies on trust that the UK will not change / reduce the threshold in the next parliament (imagine the Greens get in in 2028 for example) - BADR has already been cut by 90%! and c) does nothing for the distorting effects of 45% on the rest of us (vs, as I say, 0% for buying a f****off big house and living in it for the next 40 years). I'm happy to pay 45% on my equity gains when the boomers are happy to pay 45% on their 7 figure primary residence gains...
This is a lot of quite complex information relating to your personal case (which I appreciate), but sadly I don't think it brings us any closer to a solution.
Pb.com acquired a huge following because it filtered electoral prediction through cold, hard cash. Two things are threatening this preeminence: firstly, too few posters are actually looking for betting tips and won't put their money where their mouth is. (I have, to my cost as some here can testify). Secondly, politicians got too interested and began to try to rig and ramp the markets- as politicians will. The stuff the Tories tried to pull around the last general election is, I think, still under investigation by Plod. This latest naked ramping from Low deserves to be thumped in like manner and should be treated as what it is: a money making opportunity.for political bettors. So if the site needs to get it's mojo back, it is not going to happen by allowing Leon to post racist stuff about matters that are sub judice, it is to suggest politely that he backs his Reform ramping with some reasonable amount of dosh. If you can afford £20 for some slightly naff Crown Derby mug, you can certainly afford to take a few quid and back your mostly drunken and/or demented waffle supporting the treacherous Mr Farage as the likely next Prime Minister.
So, what odds are you giving us?
My lament about the site dying, last night, was based squarely on the fact that it is dying. In two ways
Last night we had barely a few comments over hours. At a time of huge political interest. Similarly, we get no new posters, ever. Except the execrable @Brixian59 who is surely a previous commenter reincarnating anyway. I’ve heard of this happening
Why? One big reason is the Blueskying of the site. It is now completely dominated by Dickless Centrist Dads like you. As relentlessly pompous as you are humourless, devoid of insight, caprice or wit. And fucking dull. And you have managed to push out anyone with a spark of wildness, plus that third of the country susceptible to Reform
If I was a newbie passing by, looking at this parade of sad old middlebrow “opinions”, I’d keep passing by
Sadly it has become the same old people rehashing the same old arguments - and PB would do well to consider why anyone who doesn't fit into one of two buckets of orthodoxy - "centrist (left leaning) dad" or "socially conservative right" tends to leave. I don't fit into either of those buckets and get piled on. I scan most days but rarely bother posting any more as a result.
Some of the more interesting _far_ left posters like 148grss - a literal Marxist if I recall - I disagreed with on almost everything, but found to be incredibly engaging and their arguments very well considered. To the point where they actually changed my mind about some things. That is rare. As for Reform voters, I'm a self confessed liberal metropolitan elite type who sees their voter base as utterly infra dig. But I wouldn't heap scorn on them either, because I've been out to the red wall many times to do focus groups, and absolutely get where the inchoate rage at the system is coming from. We would do well to listen to Reform voters and understand where they are coming from even if we disagree with them. But they are completely under-represented on this site - and dismissed and scorned when they do pop up.
However I don't think the problem is "middlebrow opinions" as much as it is piling on anyone who doesn't conform to the orthodoxy here. The tribalism is tiresome.
Try saying that Trump isn’t Hitler, and that he’s actually made huge achievements in immigration control, drug prices, combatting fraud, beautifying DC…
You’ll upset the PB herd if you say that !!
So, what are we meant to do?”!
Keep saying everyone the herd disagrees with is Hitler, obvs !!
I don't really think Bondygazoo's request for posting advice is genuine, but if I could ask some of our centre-left posters to change something, it would be to debate in good faith more of the time. PB is a debating forum, but it's not a campaigning forum, so there's really no need to try to misrepresent the views of others or the truth.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
Both the Conservatives and Labour went into the last general election campaign saying they would reduce immigration. And indeed Labour have reduced immigration, and immigration was falling under Sunak. HNH has not sought to delegitimise Labour and the Conservatives, AFAIK. So your claim that they are trying to “deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration” seems questionable.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
HNH has campaigned against several Tories on several occasions. To be even more precise I could have said individuals, not parties, but frankly I think my construction was precise enough, and this sort of wilful hair-splitting is a good example of what I'm talking about - it seems you can't turn it off even as you're arguing against it.
Treating PB as a battleground for some sort of idiotic (and utterly fruitless - you haven't convinced a single person who didn't already agree with you) campaign, and treating posters here as fodder for your non-stop talking points and rebuttals, is fundamentally disrespectful and I can't possibly see how it's an enjoyable leisure activity for you.
HNH is a limited company, like several political parties, so is not restricted to charitable causes. It isn't a charity, more similar in structure to groups like Migration Watch.
Comments
Also I now wait til AFTER breakfast to start on the Montrachet
The reality is everyone knows the season will end in May and three teams will be relegated. You and Foxy can follow the form and so can anyone else. The news cycle can add hope by reporting that West Brom are due a points deduction for breaching fair play rules and no one would know the penalty until either the end of the season and no one would know that penalty which could be anything up to ten points. Therefore despite Foxy's form guide anything could happen. The important thing is anyone could take that information and make, effectively, an informed "guess".Despite the quality of Foxy's form guide nothing yet is a forgone conclusion.
On the other hand if Leicester are ten points behind the Baggies with two games to play and the news is overheard before release that the Baggies are only getting a two point deduction, but we (the general punter population) don't know that, and a furtive bet is made from inside the EFL that Leicester will be relegated, would be insider betting. Likewise the Downing Street issue if several people see a document left on the photocopier "General Election, July 4th" and make the bet, they are betting on a foregone conclusion that only they know about and the rest of us don't they are cheating (for personal gain).
There's a curious dichotomy in politics - while pocketbook issues strongly tend to decide elections, the link between good economic policy and outcomes is too distant (either temporally or as a matter of simple compressibility) for most voters.
Social issues tend to dominate political identification, or perceived identification.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Hitler was much better groomed for a start. And he didn't pay as much for the tache cuts.
In terms of the others, it was largely due to Trump's blocking of Democrat policies via allies in Congress that it was spiralling out of control, so no credit there.
In terms of drug prices, they're going up despite his continuing claims they are going down, so ditto.
In terms of fraud, you keep making claims about Minnesota and California that are based on Youtube accounts that are easily demonstrated to be entirely fraudulent. In terms of combatting fraud, I'm more interested in the vast amounts of money seemingly being transferred to him in compensation by the tax authorities for trying to get him over his falsified tax returns.
As for beautifying DC, if you find either the ghastly bling he has bulldozed the Rose Garden for or the giant hole he illegally put in the side of the White House aesthetically pleasing I do hope you never become an urban planner.
A mild example of this is our discussion on the 'charity' Hope Not Hate yesterday, where I read a response that portayed their work as 'taking on the BNP and the facists'. Everyone and their dog here knows that a great deal of HNH's recent 'work' has been to deligitimise pretty much all parties that campaign to reduce immigration, most notably Reform, so I'm not sure why I should waste time arguing against what we all, including the poster, know to be a specious representation of the facts. It's boring.
The rest requires some evidence; good luck.
Not much point in having a warm-water port if you don't have a navy left to base there. Other than that, it is just a place for Russians to go for their holibobs. Amongst the bombs and the burning hydrocarbons drifting across the sky and the rest of the oil washing up on the beaches. Sounds heavenly (or maybe it soon will be, when compared to Moscow...)
It would be nice to think you're right.
I have long held the opinion (in the abstract) that capital gains in the UK were taxed too lightly, and it was encouraging people to grow businesses to a certain point and cash in by selling them abroad, to the detriment of the country. So I've not really listened to a lot of the anti capital gains tax stuff, because I felt Mandy Rice Davis applied.
You mentioned that threats to tax you on your capital gains had prevented you from investing in UK businesses (forgive me if I am oversimplifying or misrepresenting what you said). So how should the tax system (if this is possible) incentivise someone like you to invest in British businesses, but somehow discourage others to make the economy one big flog off so we end up having no British companies or brands left.
But the question is whether he isn't Hitler because of the much stronger traditional and constitutional protections against dictatorship in the United States than in Weimar Germany, because doing so wouldn't work because Hitler in the end failed, or because of genuine moral repugnance at what Hitler achieved?
98% of people, even if they became President, would fall into the latter bucket.
But Trump could belong in the other 2%.
The man is a fucking idiot.
But, sure, complain about others trying to misrepresent the truth.
If the UK puts Farage in No 10 it is going to be Britain Trump all the way.
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
Just as I predicted. Reform's latest strategy is to get The National Pulse, a US based MAGA web site - run by former Nigel Farage aide
@RaheemKassam - to start attacking the Makerfield charity and its director. Top strategy guys...
https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2058091853019275649
There are lots of people who quite reasonably see Reform as the natural vehicle for conservative Conservatives who feel abandoned by the Cameron project and the incompetence of the post-Cameron party. They don't see themselves as racist, mysogynist etc, in much the same way as many Labour supports believe themselves to be socially progressive, economically redistributive and that Labour is the party associated with that world view.
The fact that Reform is represented by a disproportionately large number of out-and-out racists, and Labour (in government) is socially regressive doesn't square with the self perception, and it can be very difficult to manage (often strident, often accurate) critiques from "the other side".
Hitler, despite being a despicable, murderous genocidal war criminal, white supremacist and ruthless totalitarian bastard did occasionally demonstrate hints of humanity, like his love of dogs. He would not have covered the Reichstag in gold leaf and he would have built another autobahn and not a thousand seat gin palace on the East Wing of the Reichstag for his party donors. Yes, Hitler preferred austere architecture but that was merely a lifestyle choice rather than a nod to self-idolatory.
If we were allowed to ignore Hitler's body count (which clearly we can't) otherwise Trump would be in my view an even worse human than Adolf with the one ball. Trump has not one redeeming quality. Trump is an Al Capone style hood who got lucky. We vilify the late Jimmy Savile for his crimes. Evidence so far from the Epstein Files suggests (that except for the Savile necrophilia) Trump allegedly ( but with evidence) committed equally vile alleged sexual outrages with children, including widespread, but absolutely unconfirmed, accusations about his history with his own daughter when she was a minor. Murdering Carribbean fishermen, Iranian schoolgirls and civilians on the streets of Minnesota in the President's name may not be the genocide of Jews and Romanies, but from little acorns, giant oak trees grow. He's not finished yet.
My own situation is unusual. I invested heavily in US markets with my PAYE salary because, for a long time, I earned far more than I could spend and chose to invest it rather than spend it. That’s left me with very large unrealised gains, while my current work, effectively a fractional marketing director for startups, constantly exposes me to UK based investment opportunities. Given the current 18/24% CGT rates (up from 10/20% pre-2024), I’m much less inclined to sell to invest. That’s very different from someone selling a small business after 20 years for 1-2m, or someone scaling a tech startup from £500k to £50m in a few years.
More broadly, though, economies work best when capital is liquid and flowing in rather than out. Personally, I’d rather stay in US equities than cash out and reinvest in the UK because 24% already feels high to me and 45% would be absurd. Likewise, why would someone build a globally mobile tech company in the UK if they could face 45% CGT on a £50m exit when they could set up elsewhere? The UK loses competitiveness, investment, and jobs.
Housing is the obvious example. We don’t tax gains on primary residences because if we did at 45%, people simply wouldn’t move. The market would freeze up. High taxes reduce liquidity, and illiquid markets stop functioning properly.
So in general, you want taxes on capital low enough to encourage investment and movement of capital. That’s what will drive growth and job creation in the UK. Yes, some people benefit more than others, but the alternative is slower growth and a poorer country overall. Which is what we have now.
Your point about foreign ownership of British businesses is really a separate issue. But it’s a fair question: e.g. why are so many rail operators and power assets and so on run by foreign state-owned companies? What are they getting right that we aren’t, and should strategic sectors be treated differently in the national interest? Another problem is that for Brits the housing market is a shibboleth. In other countries (like the US) people tend to put their wealth into equities. Here, we put it all into houses. This would only get worse if equities were taxed at 45% and primary residences at 0%...
Later
Rachel Reeves has launched a rearguard action to save her job as chancellor, telling friends she would like to stay in the post even under a new prime minister.
The chancellor’s supporters have been urging MPs to back her if Keir Starmer is replaced later this year, saying she is the only candidate who can safeguard the country’s finances.
Harder than the wets not brutal like the Rabid. Right Fascist and downright nasty element
If Burnham has any sense he'll leave her and Reeves in situ but with a mandate to be more progressive where possible
Gain a foothold on key issues, form a majority Government in 2028 to ensure Farage is out on agegrounds, see the Tories down to 50 seats.
Deliver a 5 year manifesto on closer EU integration, a referendum on PR, a concerted drive to align health and social care and bringing water back in to public ownership and complete revision of Council Tax banding and calculation, aligning Income and CGT to same rate, combining NI and Income Tax
Stop Reform gains and momentum in any By election they have a chance in.
Deflate the Farage bubble.
Pay back Farage, Tice, Yusuf for the way he considers he was shafted
Gain the support of the gobshite like Tommy, Musk, Bannon and Co
Play the long game and build an anti Farage front on far right to cream off 5 to 10% in key seats.
They don't need MPs at this point.
Its about denying Farage number 10,getying rid of Tice and Yusuf and becoming the voice of the Right.
Much to my surprise, it turns out that Carthage was very much a peer nation, in military terms, to Rome. They twice brought them to the point of defeat, something no other nation did, before the rise of the Sassanids.
Why can’t we have some of that.
Maybe south wales is more predisposed to racism than the North East.
She and to a slightly lesser degree Starmer are scared of frightening off the racist tendency. They too couch their narrative in terms that won't scare the racists.
The Jan 6 riot was a false flag operation by Bidens 274 FBI agents, who must now be compensated from a $1.7 billion slush fund.
Can anyone help?
https://nypost.com/2026/05/21/us-news/doj-charges-15-fraudsters-who-stole-90m-in-minnesota/
Of the four I'd say Your Party had the biggest opportunity as there was such an audience, they just waited too long and were too incompetent once they got going, compounded by the somewhat inexplicable rise of Polanski (inexplicable mostly because I don't see what the Greens are offering now they were not 10 years ago).
Lack of interest outside one's own tribe is not an easy problem to fix, and hardly confined to the centre, centre left, or centre right. Individual policies don't really seem to matter either, it's down to vibes.
I do recommend reading about other parties though, I got some good laughs out of the SDP manifesto in 2024.
It isn't really working.
Her personality traits are arrogance and refusal to apologise for her errors
Argumentative and unable to grasp the fact she's not always right and others aren't always wrong.
In a nutshell a terrifying lack of emotional maturity.
The Violet Elizabeth of UK politics.
She's not as fundamentally evil and insane as Braverman and extreme and nasty as Pritti but that's a fecking very low bar.
Tory polling is stagnant and recent losses to lowest ever Council numbers suggest extermination.
Her complete lack of realism and truth on this perfectly sums her up.
I will say that I quite like the Diadochi era and am somewhat familiar with how Rome defeated Alexander's Successors at battles like Kyonskephelai, Pydna, and Magnesia, so I'm not surprised by the early mention of a huge disparity in dead Romans. If Carthage hadn't had Hanno working, effectively, for the Romans and had reinforced Hannibal, things could've gone differently.
It has been interesting this week that current net immigration figures if you strip out students and anyone else on short term contracts that are committed to going home comes in at circa 70,000 net. One would have thought that people like Farage who have been banging on about "Boriswaves" for years would be pleased, but no. "It's the wrong kind of net immigration". It turns out that the metrics they are using of young white people leaving for Aussie and the Emirates is bollocks, but as immigration is the USP, confirmation that it is at a "more manageable" levels that is the last thing they need. If people stop being scared of immigrants Nigel's limited company goes South. They either need to change their terms of reference or find new scapegoats.
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/457375/carthage-by-macdonald-eve/9781529911695
It is why Reform shrug off the Social Media posts of people like Kenyon. They want to normalise racism, misogyny etc.
And on that bibliophile note, I must be off. Play nicely, everyone.
* Although don't forget Tories are like cockroaches and they can survive Armageddon.
A president credited for all manner of misdeeds which it's temporally impossible for him to have committed, and given no credit for his considerable achievements.
If you weren't being ironic, then you might also read this.
Trump Promised Cheaper Drugs. Some Prices Dropped. Many Others Shot Up.
https://kffhealthnews.org/health-care-costs/trumprx-reality-check-drugs-not-always-cheaper/
(And, of course, drug pricing is a pretty small part of US healthcare's cost and availability problems.)
Treating PB as a battleground for some sort of idiotic (and utterly fruitless - you haven't convinced a single person who didn't already agree with you) campaign, and treating posters here as fodder for your non-stop talking points and rebuttals, is fundamentally disrespectful and I can't possibly see how it's an enjoyable leisure activity for you.
We might reasonably ask why we couldn't do this year round.
I'm here because I am upfront a Lib Dem partisan, active for a long time. You think Farage is an amusing old card, in short, a good egg of similar age and background to yourself. I think he is a malicious, treacherous fraud. I tell you what, I will give you 2-1 for a crisp tenner that the Lib Dems will hold more seats than a Farage-led Reform party after the next general election.
What do you say? I have a sufficiently terrible track record that you could even win.
Nothing personal here- we have never met, and if you bought me a drink I might even accept it. If you haven't got ten quid, I get it, Chalk Farm pads stuffed with tat from car boot sales won't come cheap, but if you really haven't got the balls to back your silly opinions I do feel like the rest of us can safely ignore your next Isadora Duncan style flouncy crosspatch nonsense.