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Donald Trump experiences FAFO with Latino voters – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,172
edited May 16 in General
Donald Trump experiences FAFO with Latino voters – politicalbetting.com

The bottom has completely fallen out for Trump with Latino voters.After winning a record share for a GOP nominee in 2024, just 28% of Latinos approve of Trump now. The drop with Latino men is even more dramatic. He won em by 10 in 2024. His net approval now is -41 pts! pic.twitter.com/LKB3BBgE7a

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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,428
    First!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949
    FPT…

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    Good morning

    They certainly haven't done nothing

    As I said yesterday an old friend popped in to invite us to his 80th

    He is a successful North Wales businessman who said Reeves NI and minimum wage increaseshas added £100,000 pa to his restaurant costs so much so he is cutting hours, staff who in hospitality are generally young, reviewing his menus, and increasing prices, but he is uncertain just how sustainable his restaurant is

    Labour haven't a clue about businees and just destroy jobs and opportunities especially for the young

    And on Burnham I am not at all sure he will win and if he doesn't goodness knows what happens to labour, indeed even if he does looking at the bond markets he may have a very short honeymoon
    So his complaint is that he has to pay his workers more - that’s not a great look really
    It’s not about look.

    It’s about reality. If he puts prices up to cover increasing wage costs, then less and less people will eat in his resteraunt.

    Very easy to get into the downslope - less people at a higher price is less profitable, so prices have to go up
    And up. Or go out of business.

    Bet you’ll be upset when a meal out costs £100 a head, before alcohol. But that is where we are heading. You can draw the lines on a graph.
    I’ll be upset at gross exaggeration first. I had a fantastic Japanese meal last night, in London, including one of the most expensive things in the menu, and it came to about £85 for two. We are not heading to £100 a head.
    Look up some reviews of hospitality industry which include price inflation. It is a long way ahead of RPI, CPI or any other measure you want to use.

    It has been for a while - especially since COVID.

    And there is no sign of it slowing down.

    It will take some time, but the end result is inevitable.
    Decades in the future when inflation means £100 then doesn’t mean what £100 now means. This is just silly scaremongering. You can make your point without such pecuniary hyperbole.
    If prices are increasing above inflation and wages, then affordability goes down.

    This is mathematics at work.

    One of the reasons that chunks of the population are really upset is that they see themselves, increasingly, priced out of things that they used to do.
    See? I knew you could make your point without pecuniary hyperbole.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    Not having to care about the your electorate is an inherent failure mode of term limits.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,526

    FPT…

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    Good morning

    They certainly haven't done nothing

    As I said yesterday an old friend popped in to invite us to his 80th

    He is a successful North Wales businessman who said Reeves NI and minimum wage increaseshas added £100,000 pa to his restaurant costs so much so he is cutting hours, staff who in hospitality are generally young, reviewing his menus, and increasing prices, but he is uncertain just how sustainable his restaurant is

    Labour haven't a clue about businees and just destroy jobs and opportunities especially for the young

    And on Burnham I am not at all sure he will win and if he doesn't goodness knows what happens to labour, indeed even if he does looking at the bond markets he may have a very short honeymoon
    So his complaint is that he has to pay his workers more - that’s not a great look really
    It’s not about look.

    It’s about reality. If he puts prices up to cover increasing wage costs, then less and less people will eat in his resteraunt.

    Very easy to get into the downslope - less people at a higher price is less profitable, so prices have to go up
    And up. Or go out of business.

    Bet you’ll be upset when a meal out costs £100 a head, before alcohol. But that is where we are heading. You can draw the lines on a graph.
    I’ll be upset at gross exaggeration first. I had a fantastic Japanese meal last night, in London, including one of the most expensive things in the menu, and it came to about £85 for two. We are not heading to £100 a head.
    Look up some reviews of hospitality industry which include price inflation. It is a long way ahead of RPI, CPI or any other measure you want to use.

    It has been for a while - especially since COVID.

    And there is no sign of it slowing down.

    It will take some time, but the end result is inevitable.
    Decades in the future when inflation means £100 then doesn’t mean what £100 now means. This is just silly scaremongering. You can make your point without such pecuniary hyperbole.
    If prices are increasing above inflation and wages, then affordability goes down.

    This is mathematics at work.

    One of the reasons that chunks of the population are really upset is that they see themselves, increasingly, priced out of things that they used to do.
    See? I knew you could make your point without pecuniary hyperbole.
    The £100 is about quantifying how that will feel, to the poor bloody peasant who is trying to dine out.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    Foss said:

    Not having to care about the your electorate is an inherent failure mode of term limits.

    Hmm. Or potentially removing any term limits by President decree.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    Being batshit, and corrupt, makes Paxton the ideal Republican candidate, for Texas.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    Presidential autocorrected to President. Who would have known?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,866

    FPT…

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    Good morning

    They certainly haven't done nothing

    As I said yesterday an old friend popped in to invite us to his 80th

    He is a successful North Wales businessman who said Reeves NI and minimum wage increaseshas added £100,000 pa to his restaurant costs so much so he is cutting hours, staff who in hospitality are generally young, reviewing his menus, and increasing prices, but he is uncertain just how sustainable his restaurant is

    Labour haven't a clue about businees and just destroy jobs and opportunities especially for the young

    And on Burnham I am not at all sure he will win and if he doesn't goodness knows what happens to labour, indeed even if he does looking at the bond markets he may have a very short honeymoon
    So his complaint is that he has to pay his workers more - that’s not a great look really
    It’s not about look.

    It’s about reality. If he puts prices up to cover increasing wage costs, then less and less people will eat in his resteraunt.

    Very easy to get into the downslope - less people at a higher price is less profitable, so prices have to go up
    And up. Or go out of business.

    Bet you’ll be upset when a meal out costs £100 a head, before alcohol. But that is where we are heading. You can draw the lines on a graph.
    I’ll be upset at gross exaggeration first. I had a fantastic Japanese meal last night, in London, including one of the most expensive things in the menu, and it came to about £85 for two. We are not heading to £100 a head.
    Look up some reviews of hospitality industry which include price inflation. It is a long way ahead of RPI, CPI or any other measure you want to use.

    It has been for a while - especially since COVID.

    And there is no sign of it slowing down.

    It will take some time, but the end result is inevitable.
    Decades in the future when inflation means £100 then doesn’t mean what £100 now means. This is just silly scaremongering. You can make your point without such pecuniary hyperbole.
    If prices are increasing above inflation and wages, then affordability goes down.

    This is mathematics at work.

    One of the reasons that chunks of the population are really upset is that they see themselves, increasingly, priced out of things that they used to do.
    See? I knew you could make your point without pecuniary hyperbole.
    The £100 is about quantifying how that will feel, to the poor bloody peasant who is trying to dine out.
    The poor bloody peasants are the ones working in the restaurant, not the ones eating in it.

    And a fair bit of this is just getting old. I know that calibrating 'the fair price of a restaurant meal' by the £5 Pierre Victorie charged for lunch in the 1990s is madness, but I don't necessarily grok that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,687
    Russian weapons factory, impressively on fire.

    https://x.com/chuckpfarrer/status/2055325657346048288
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861
    edited May 16
    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2% but then Nixon won California
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631
    The new CNN poll should serve as a big time reality check for Dems.

    Yes, Trump isn't liked on the economy... but neither are the Dems..


    The electorate is understandably upset with the way Biden's economy has gone this year.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861
    Note too Republicans are polling far better than Trump on the economy, tied with Democrats while Trump has a -36% rating on the economy. Which suggests GOP candidates will likely do better than Trump's approval rating in November even if the Democrats retake Congress
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,526

    FPT…

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    Good morning

    They certainly haven't done nothing

    As I said yesterday an old friend popped in to invite us to his 80th

    He is a successful North Wales businessman who said Reeves NI and minimum wage increaseshas added £100,000 pa to his restaurant costs so much so he is cutting hours, staff who in hospitality are generally young, reviewing his menus, and increasing prices, but he is uncertain just how sustainable his restaurant is

    Labour haven't a clue about businees and just destroy jobs and opportunities especially for the young

    And on Burnham I am not at all sure he will win and if he doesn't goodness knows what happens to labour, indeed even if he does looking at the bond markets he may have a very short honeymoon
    So his complaint is that he has to pay his workers more - that’s not a great look really
    It’s not about look.

    It’s about reality. If he puts prices up to cover increasing wage costs, then less and less people will eat in his resteraunt.

    Very easy to get into the downslope - less people at a higher price is less profitable, so prices have to go up
    And up. Or go out of business.

    Bet you’ll be upset when a meal out costs £100 a head, before alcohol. But that is where we are heading. You can draw the lines on a graph.
    I’ll be upset at gross exaggeration first. I had a fantastic Japanese meal last night, in London, including one of the most expensive things in the menu, and it came to about £85 for two. We are not heading to £100 a head.
    Look up some reviews of hospitality industry which include price inflation. It is a long way ahead of RPI, CPI or any other measure you want to use.

    It has been for a while - especially since COVID.

    And there is no sign of it slowing down.

    It will take some time, but the end result is inevitable.
    Decades in the future when inflation means £100 then doesn’t mean what £100 now means. This is just silly scaremongering. You can make your point without such pecuniary hyperbole.
    If prices are increasing above inflation and wages, then affordability goes down.

    This is mathematics at work.

    One of the reasons that chunks of the population are really upset is that they see themselves, increasingly, priced out of things that they used to do.
    See? I knew you could make your point without pecuniary hyperbole.
    The £100 is about quantifying how that will feel, to the poor bloody peasant who is trying to dine out.
    The poor bloody peasants are the ones working in the restaurant, not the ones eating in it.

    And a fair bit of this is just getting old. I know that calibrating 'the fair price of a restaurant meal' by the £5 Pierre Victorie charged for lunch in the 1990s is madness, but I don't necessarily grok that.
    The Food Industry Inflation is measurable and real.

    For extra fun - it hits harder at the lower end. It’s not quite “a tenner on a pub meal and a tenner on a Michelin starred place” - but there is a pattern.

    Part of the discontent in society is that we going backwards on affordability of various things.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,568
    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,499
    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    edited May 16

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861

    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
    Yes but Trump won Texas 3 times, even in 2020 when Biden beat him
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133
    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.

    War restarts this week. 👍

    Bart will be permanently priapic.

    However doing what previously failed again may not be wise. But it’s down to Trump and Bibi.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
    Yes but Trump won Texas 3 times, even in 2020 when Biden beat him
    Well exactly.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,866

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,916

    FPT…

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    Good morning

    They certainly haven't done nothing

    As I said yesterday an old friend popped in to invite us to his 80th

    He is a successful North Wales businessman who said Reeves NI and minimum wage increaseshas added £100,000 pa to his restaurant costs so much so he is cutting hours, staff who in hospitality are generally young, reviewing his menus, and increasing prices, but he is uncertain just how sustainable his restaurant is

    Labour haven't a clue about businees and just destroy jobs and opportunities especially for the young

    And on Burnham I am not at all sure he will win and if he doesn't goodness knows what happens to labour, indeed even if he does looking at the bond markets he may have a very short honeymoon
    So his complaint is that he has to pay his workers more - that’s not a great look really
    It’s not about look.

    It’s about reality. If he puts prices up to cover increasing wage costs, then less and less people will eat in his resteraunt.

    Very easy to get into the downslope - less people at a higher price is less profitable, so prices have to go up
    And up. Or go out of business.

    Bet you’ll be upset when a meal out costs £100 a head, before alcohol. But that is where we are heading. You can draw the lines on a graph.
    I’ll be upset at gross exaggeration first. I had a fantastic Japanese meal last night, in London, including one of the most expensive things in the menu, and it came to about £85 for two. We are not heading to £100 a head.
    Look up some reviews of hospitality industry which include price inflation. It is a long way ahead of RPI, CPI or any other measure you want to use.

    It has been for a while - especially since COVID.

    And there is no sign of it slowing down.

    It will take some time, but the end result is inevitable.
    Decades in the future when inflation means £100 then doesn’t mean what £100 now means. This is just silly scaremongering. You can make your point without such pecuniary hyperbole.
    If prices are increasing above inflation and wages, then affordability goes down.

    This is mathematics at work.

    One of the reasons that chunks of the population are really upset is that they see themselves, increasingly, priced out of things that they used to do.
    See? I knew you could make your point without pecuniary hyperbole.
    The £100 is about quantifying how that will feel, to the poor bloody peasant who is trying to dine out.
    The poor bloody peasants are the ones working in the restaurant, not the ones eating in it.

    And a fair bit of this is just getting old. I know that calibrating 'the fair price of a restaurant meal' by the £5 Pierre Victorie charged for lunch in the 1990s is madness, but I don't necessarily grok that.
    The Food Industry Inflation is measurable and real.

    For extra fun - it hits harder at the lower end. It’s not quite “a tenner on a pub meal and a tenner on a Michelin starred place” - but there is a pattern.

    Part of the discontent in society is that we going backwards on affordability of various things.
    The last couple of times I’ve eaten at the Ivy it’s been little more than other options.

    We decided this morning to go out tonight and none of the good (not cheap) options have tables so it’s going to be a matter of seeing who hasn’t turned up so we can get squeezed in
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,866
    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.

    How long until the interruption in oil tankers leaving the Gulf turns into an interruption in oil tankers arriving in Europe and America?

    And is Eagles on holiday then?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861
    edited May 16

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    Gullis couldn't even get a job back as a teacher after losing his Stoke North seat in 2024 as a former Tory MP (which he blamed on bias by interview panels), so looks like his going to Reform was a good career move on his part and he now leads Newcastle under Lyme council
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,568
    edited May 16

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
    Yes but Trump won Texas 3 times, even in 2020 when Biden beat him
    Well exactly.
    So Texas hasn't fallen yet, if it does in 2028 or November that would be seismic
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631
    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861
    edited May 16

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Rainbow Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
  • eekeek Posts: 33,916
    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Birmingham has a whole set of problems that need to be sorted out that are going to be painful. No party wants it's name anywhere near it..
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    edited May 16
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    It isn't the task of the media to be a PR company for any government. This government has been terrible at communications, and especially the art of communicating convincingly by answering questions and not being evasive.

    also terrible decision making. Sacking Robbins and then clinging on....

    I think that is largely correct.

    But neither is it the job of Allister Heath and Allison Pearson to represent fiction as fact. The job of the Telegraph ( and GB News and Talk TV) is to report the news objectively not to use smoke and mirrors to roll the pitch for the next Government in 3,4,5 years time. One could argue a competent Government should have the wherewithal to call out and correct inaccuracies, but it seems this one didn't.

    Starmer is wholly to blame for this.
    Largely agree, but there is no such thing as objective news coverage. They could all try harder to separate fact and opinion. So we have to rely on an open free media.

    There are loads of outlets who would reasonably fairly but critically report on Labour doing well. Mirror, Guardian, FT, New Statesman, Economist, Ch4, ITV, BBC, Times to some extent, vast numbers on X and other social media. An infinity of podcasts.

    As to the Right Wing media, in general they gave the Tories a hard time in government IIRC. I find it hard to follow because it's unreadable.

    Whereas I accept there will be a bias when reporting news, any news, it is the out and out lies I was objecting to.

    It's like giving a false equivalent to reporting by Rachel Maddows and. Jesse Watters. Maddows takes a story, reports the story and opines from the left. Jesse Watters ignores any story but just makes stuff up with no basis upon fact, to promote his cause, which is invariably Trump.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,526
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
    Yes but Trump won Texas 3 times, even in 2020 when Biden beat him
    Well exactly.
    So Texas hasn't fallen yet, if it does in 2028 or November that would be seismic
    Much of the panic and rage that sustains MAGA is the demographic projections that various states will flip, permanently to the Democrats.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,568
    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,866
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Birmingham has a whole set of problems that need to be sorted out that are going to be painful. No party wants it's name anywhere near it..
    Especially as junior partner in a coalition.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,449
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
    Yes but Trump won Texas 3 times, even in 2020 when Biden beat him
    Well exactly.
    So Texas hasn't fallen yet, if it does in 2028 or November that would be seismic
    Greater risk of seismic in California than Texas.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444
    I really like the phrase loveless landslide. It captures the situation exactly.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133
    New Fed chair Kevin Warsh sworn in today.

    Just as we’re heading into a bond crisis in the US, as well as other markets.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861
    edited May 16
    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Though even Labour, LDs and Greens combined would fall just short of a majority on Birmingham council now, hence the Labour group leader has said she will take her group into opposition.

    Kemi is suspending any Tory group leaders who do deals with Greens, see Worcestershire yesterday, so that rules out a Tory, LD and Green and Independents deal.

    So it looks like Birmingham will be run by a Reform minority administration
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    edited May 16

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    All is well that ends well. After being turfed out of Parliament Jonathan Gullis was unable to secure a teaching post because his mad rhetoric as a lunatic MP kept following him around. So isn't this a nice story with a happy ending?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,198

    FPT…

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    Good morning

    They certainly haven't done nothing

    As I said yesterday an old friend popped in to invite us to his 80th

    He is a successful North Wales businessman who said Reeves NI and minimum wage increaseshas added £100,000 pa to his restaurant costs so much so he is cutting hours, staff who in hospitality are generally young, reviewing his menus, and increasing prices, but he is uncertain just how sustainable his restaurant is

    Labour haven't a clue about businees and just destroy jobs and opportunities especially for the young

    And on Burnham I am not at all sure he will win and if he doesn't goodness knows what happens to labour, indeed even if he does looking at the bond markets he may have a very short honeymoon
    So his complaint is that he has to pay his workers more - that’s not a great look really
    It’s not about look.

    It’s about reality. If he puts prices up to cover increasing wage costs, then less and less people will eat in his resteraunt.

    Very easy to get into the downslope - less people at a higher price is less profitable, so prices have to go up
    And up. Or go out of business.

    Bet you’ll be upset when a meal out costs £100 a head, before alcohol. But that is where we are heading. You can draw the lines on a graph.
    I’ll be upset at gross exaggeration first. I had a fantastic Japanese meal last night, in London, including one of the most expensive things in the menu, and it came to about £85 for two. We are not heading to £100 a head.
    Look up some reviews of hospitality industry which include price inflation. It is a long way ahead of RPI, CPI or any other measure you want to use.

    It has been for a while - especially since COVID.

    And there is no sign of it slowing down.

    It will take some time, but the end result is inevitable.
    Decades in the future when inflation means £100 then doesn’t mean what £100 now means. This is just silly scaremongering. You can make your point without such pecuniary hyperbole.
    If prices are increasing above inflation and wages, then affordability goes down.

    This is mathematics at work.

    One of the reasons that chunks of the population are really upset is that they see themselves, increasingly, priced out of things that they used to do.
    See? I knew you could make your point without pecuniary hyperbole.
    The £100 is about quantifying how that will feel, to the poor bloody peasant who is trying to dine out.
    The poor bloody peasants are the ones working in the restaurant, not the ones eating in it.

    And a fair bit of this is just getting old. I know that calibrating 'the fair price of a restaurant meal' by the £5 Pierre Victorie charged for lunch in the 1990s is madness, but I don't necessarily grok that.
    Yeah. Prices have very nearly doubled according to the Bank of England since I started university and so had to routinely buy everything for myself. And plenty of things will have gone up by now then double and others less, so most of everything is going to feel more expensive then it should be, and then sometimes it will be more expensive then it should be, because businesses are naturally always going to try to charge as much as they can get away with.

    Keeping one's internal calibration of a fair price updated is pretty much impossible.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,866

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    Yeah.

    Reform could have stuck to "it's national policy", even if it's a bit weird to have a national policy on that when there are a billion things they don't have a policy on.

    Orr's sin is saying the quiet bit out loud- that Reform is all about spending money on mememe, not on them. And a chunky slice of the electorate has always been cool with that. See the patriotic Conservatives who thought that fighting Hitler was an unfortunate mistake.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,568

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    All is well that ends well. After being turfed out of Parliament Jonathan Gullis was unable to secure a teaching post because his mad rhetoric as a lunatic MP kept following him around. So isn't this a nice story with a happy ending?
    Between 2019 and 2025 I was in some WhatsApp groups with Jonathan Gullis.

    The man is thicker than whale omelette.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    All is well that ends well. After being turfed out of Parliament Jonathan Gullis was unable to secure a teaching post because his mad rhetoric as a lunatic MP kept following him around. So isn't this a nice story with a happy ending?
    Yes, Reform now offers a secure home of paid employment for defeated MPs who can't get teaching jobs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
    Yes but Trump won Texas 3 times, even in 2020 when Biden beat him
    Well exactly.
    So Texas hasn't fallen yet, if it does in 2028 or November that would be seismic
    Greater risk of seismic in California than Texas.
    For governor but zero chance of California voting for Vance or Rubio in 2028
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,198

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.

    How long until the interruption in oil tankers leaving the Gulf turns into an interruption in oil tankers arriving in Europe and America?

    And is Eagles on holiday then?
    That happened about a month ago. So far the gap is mostly being made up by running down inventories. I believe those are expected to start running out in June.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,499

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    The Ukrainian flag has been removed from outside Essex County Council's offices by the newly elected Reform UK administration.

    A second Union flag was instead put up in its place outside County Hall in Chelmsford on Friday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqp4nev13qo

    Trying to remember how it used to be, when I was a lad. I'm thinking Essex, England, Union, EU for the four flags, but maybe I'm wrong. That would really have exploded Reform heads.
    But at least that made sense. Piccadilly Station flies the red British Rail flag (signifying that this is a station), the Union Flag (signifying that this is a station in the UK), and the rainbiw flag (signifying that this is a station in the UK where we don't hate gay people). It always strikes me as wildly incongruous that this is deemed the third most important thing that is shown by flag.
    In fact, it is even more wildly specific that that, ut is tge rainbow flag with the extra stripes and the triangles and the circle, signifying, AIUI, that we don't hate gay people, not even black or brown ones, and we are on-board with gender being sonething you can choose rather than something you are, and we are fine about people who don't fancy anyone in a sexual way. Which strikes me as sneaking one wildly controversial view into three wildly uncontroversial ones. In any case, a strange set of things for a station to be declaring by flag alongside the two less surprising ones of it being a station in the UK.
    The peepul aren't quite so keen on not hating gay people as they used to be. Probably too many rainbow flags.

    PinkNews
    @PinkNews
    Best and worst countries to be LGBTQ+ in Europe in 2026 revealed https://thepinknews.com/2026/05/12/eur

    https://x.com/PinkNews/status/2055136118094320001?s=20
    I think there's been a sea change here, even though the UK is about 40% down the Pink News league table.

    For example, the Conservatives pledged a ban on "conversion therapy" back in 2018, and Labour have put it in the Kings Speech. I am not aware of any political parties that support it, other than perhaps some fringe groups. Ref UK are silent afaics.

    In the USA there are still fairly major groups on the Christian Right, such as the Alliance Defending Freedom. Even groups broadly on the religious right in the UK don't take that stance.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    I'm sure you're correct, but these days it seems the more rightist a person is, the more they're labelled awful.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    Reform believe in Britain first basically but at least they have said they still back Ukraine, they will take down Pride flags too but won't still express support for Pride events (even though Reform has a number of gay male representatives)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,568

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.

    How long until the interruption in oil tankers leaving the Gulf turns into an interruption in oil tankers arriving in Europe and America?

    And is Eagles on holiday then?
    Well I finish work on Tuesday and don't go back until the following Tuesday.

    It's not a holiday per se.

    Just seeing some friends across the UK, going to the cinema to watch the Baby Yoda film.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,198
    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Kemi won't allow the Tories to deal with the Greens, so it would look like a majority coalition isn't possible.

    I guess the Greens and Lib Dems could run a minority coalition, but why would they want to take the blame for everything and not be able to do anything about it?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,354

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    All is well that ends well. After being turfed out of Parliament Jonathan Gullis was unable to secure a teaching post because his mad rhetoric as a lunatic MP kept following him around. So isn't this a nice story with a happy ending?
    Between 2019 and 2025 I was in some WhatsApp groups with Jonathan Gullis.

    The man is thicker than whale omelette.
    What a line.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223
    AnneJGP said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    I'm sure you're correct, but these days it seems the more rightist a person is, the more they're labelled awful.
    Why are you sure he's correct? It seems a wholly unwarranted assumption in any circumstances.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861

    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Kemi won't allow the Tories to deal with the Greens, so it would look like a majority coalition isn't possible.

    I guess the Greens and Lib Dems could run a minority coalition, but why would they want to take the blame for everything and not be able to do anything about it?
    Labour, plus Greens, plus LDs, plus Independents would have had a majority but as Reform won most seats the Labour group leader said she will take her party onto the opposition benches in Birmingham council chamber
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,568

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    Yeah.

    Reform could have stuck to "it's national policy", even if it's a bit weird to have a national policy on that when there are a billion things they don't have a policy on.

    Orr's sin is saying the quiet bit out loud- that Reform is all about spending money on mememe, not on them. And a chunky slice of the electorate has always been cool with that. See the patriotic Conservatives who thought that fighting Hitler was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's plenty of Tories on here, we might have voted differently on Brexit, we might be on the left of the party, some of us are on the right of the party, we disagree on plenty, but one thing we all agree on supporting Ukraine is absolutely the right thing to do, and absolutely in the UK's top interest.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    How can someone as unquestionably dim as Nadim Zahawi have made so much money? One would have thought there would be a correlation between ability/ talent and earning capacity. I am reminded of the early TV career of Jackie Budden.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,449
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Though even Labour, LDs and Greens combined would fall just short of a majority on Birmingham council now, hence the Labour group leader has said she will take her group into opposition.

    Kemi is suspending any Tory group leaders who do deals with Greens, see Worcestershire yesterday, so that rules out a Tory, LD and Green and Independents deal.

    So it looks like Birmingham will be run by a Reform minority administration
    Sounds like a similar setup to Bradford then, except that Reform + Tory has a slim majority. And will even if Reform lose the by-election for the seat where their winning candidate didn't fancy it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861
    edited May 16

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    All is well that ends well. After being turfed out of Parliament Jonathan Gullis was unable to secure a teaching post because his mad rhetoric as a lunatic MP kept following him around. So isn't this a nice story with a happy ending?
    Between 2019 and 2025 I was in some WhatsApp groups with Jonathan Gullis.

    The man is thicker than whale omelette.
    Maybe but he now leads a council with an annual budget of £20 million and a capital budget of over £100 million. Indeed as Reform leader of Newcastle under Lyme council, Gullis arguably has more power than he ever did as a backbench Tory MP (albeit with a brief stint as Liz Truss' Parliamentary Under Secretary for School Standards)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,449
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course George W Bush won 44% of Latino voters against Kerry in 2004 but those voters soon went back to the Democrats who won back Congress in 2006. After the 2008 crash Obama won 67% of Latino voters against McCain in 2008 so this swing is not unprecedented.

    If the Democrats do manage to win Texas for the first time in decades due to shifting Latino votes it would also make it near impossible for the GOP to win the EC again. No Republican candidate has won the Presidency without winning Texas since Nixon in 1968 when Humphrey carried Texas by just 2%

    They have been banging on about Dems winning Texas and GOP falling short all ECs from now until kingdom comes for decades. In that time we have had two Trump presidencies including the one that ends 250 years of free and fairdemocracy.
    Yes but Trump won Texas 3 times, even in 2020 when Biden beat him
    Well exactly.
    So Texas hasn't fallen yet, if it does in 2028 or November that would be seismic
    Greater risk of seismic in California than Texas.
    For governor but zero chance of California voting for Vance or Rubio in 2028
    I was making a joke about the earthquake risk, rather than sharing political insight!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    Reform believe in Britain first basically but at least they have said they still back Ukraine, they will take down Pride flags too but won't still express support for Pride events (even though Reform has a number of gay male representatives)
    There are quite a lot of LGBT people who have a normal life outside of their 'identity'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,956
    edited May 16

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.

    How long until the interruption in oil tankers leaving the Gulf turns into an interruption in oil tankers arriving in Europe and America?

    And is Eagles on holiday then?
    Well I finish work on Tuesday and don't go back until the following Tuesday.

    It's not a holiday per se.

    Just seeing some friends across the UK, going to the cinema to watch the Baby Yoda film.
    United the Kingdom march followed by the cinema? ;-)

    The Baby yoda film looks worse than having to attend the rally.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,861
    edited May 16

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Though even Labour, LDs and Greens combined would fall just short of a majority on Birmingham council now, hence the Labour group leader has said she will take her group into opposition.

    Kemi is suspending any Tory group leaders who do deals with Greens, see Worcestershire yesterday, so that rules out a Tory, LD and Green and Independents deal.

    So it looks like Birmingham will be run by a Reform minority administration
    Sounds like a similar setup to Bradford then, except that Reform + Tory has a slim majority. And will even if Reform lose the by-election for the seat where their winning candidate didn't fancy it.
    If Kemi is being consistent she should also suspend any Bradford Tory group leaders who do deals with Reform, fair enough suspending the Worcestershire group Tory leader for doing a deal with the Greens but she has to be consistent. Otherwise Labour, the LDs and Greens will just say 'Vote Tory, Get Reform'. Just leave Reform in Bradford to run a minority administration as they will likely do now in Birmingham
  • eekeek Posts: 33,916

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    It would be nice if the Flag loving Racist Reform Chimps round here stopped putting flags up on lamp-posts.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444

    AnneJGP said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    Meanwhile, in other "meet the new boss" news,

    Former Conservative party deputy chair Jonathan Gullis has been selected as Reform UK's group leader at a local authority in Staffordshire.

    Gullis, who defected to Reform at the end of last year, was chosen by local party members in Newcastle-under-Lyme at a meeting on Thursday.

    It means the ex-MP is likely to become the next leader of Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council, following a vote during a full council meeting next Wednesday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8p74n52ypo

    It's not just that Reform have become a home for Conservative right-wingers, it's very largely all the most awful Conservative right-wingers.
    I'm sure you're correct, but these days it seems the more rightist a person is, the more they're labelled awful.
    Why are you sure he's correct? It seems a wholly unwarranted assumption in any circumstances.
    Giving his statement the benefit of the doubt since I know nothing of the person concerned.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949
    FPT...
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    Good morning

    They certainly haven't done nothing

    As I said yesterday an old friend popped in to invite us to his 80th

    He is a successful North Wales businessman who said Reeves NI and minimum wage increaseshas added £100,000 pa to his restaurant costs so much so he is cutting hours, staff who in hospitality are generally young, reviewing his menus, and increasing prices, but he is uncertain just how sustainable his restaurant is

    Labour haven't a clue about businees and just destroy jobs and opportunities especially for the young

    And on Burnham I am not at all sure he will win and if he doesn't goodness knows what happens to labour, indeed even if he does looking at the bond markets he may have a very short honeymoon
    So his complaint is that he has to pay his workers more - that’s not a great look really
    Maybe businesses that employ the low-paid should be paying them more, or acknowledging that they don't really have a viable business.

    Maybe we have too many hospitality businesses for our own good.

    Maybe restaurant customers should accept that we've had it too cheap for too long.

    I don't know, and I don't think anyone without access to the accounts can either. But the questions need to be asked, don't they?
    You must be delighted at the rate of closures in the hospitality industry then.

    Less delighted will be people, especially young ones, who start their working lives in the industry. A minimum wage prior to the absurd hikes is better than getting no money at all. However to her credit Rachel Reeves recognised it.

    Not a problem for people here. Obvs.

    Oh, and good luck telling customers expecting to fork out (no pun…) more and more for a meal out to suck it up as they’ve never had it so good.

    They’ll just vote with their feet.

    But I suspect that’s what some of you want
    Is the rate of closures in the hospitality industry concerning? The Commons library has this graph...



    It's not obvious that there's a crisis from that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    Yeah.

    Reform could have stuck to "it's national policy", even if it's a bit weird to have a national policy on that when there are a billion things they don't have a policy on.

    Orr's sin is saying the quiet bit out loud- that Reform is all about spending money on mememe, not on them. And a chunky slice of the electorate has always been cool with that. See the patriotic Conservatives who thought that fighting Hitler was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's plenty of Tories on here, we might have voted differently on Brexit, we might be on the left of the party, some of us are on the right of the party, we disagree on plenty, but one thing we all agree on supporting Ukraine is absolutely the right thing to do, and absolutely in the UK's top interest.
    'In the UK's top interest' does not really make sense. People need to be clear and say what they mean. Is it the UK's number one foreign policy objective? I would say not, but it's an arguable view. Is it the UK's number one objective full stop? I would say certainly not. Either way, I don't think taking a flag down from a municipal building can be seen as an act of teachery, nor worthy of invoking Hitler as I see a particularly silly post has done.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,813

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    I'm sorry to say, but that's a pretty snivelling response.

    Ukraine is in an existential fight against a brutal dictator. And the first thing Reform does is take down the flag of Ukraine? That really is performative, isn't it?

    And this from a party led by someone who repeated Kremlin talking points when comfortably ensconced in the European Parliament.

    Nauseating, and a timely reminder to Tories about why they should have no truck with these populists.
  • Andy Burnham has a real but narrow window to put Labour back on the map.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    An American seeing the dark side of UK racist policies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YVGH42PTGk
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,449
    "The Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) told BBC Verify that the 2024 mayoral election cost it £4,719,754."

    So we can put a price on Burnham's vanity.

    Do we know anyone with a spare £5 million they could chip in?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,499
    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Rainbow Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    For me the weak point for Zahawi is the claim to deliver public services, which is baloney.

    Their cloud cuckoo land budgetary stances require them to gut public services, which is what is happening.

    An example is adult education in Derbyshire.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,499
    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    The Ukrainian flag has been removed from outside Essex County Council's offices by the newly elected Reform UK administration.

    A second Union flag was instead put up in its place outside County Hall in Chelmsford on Friday.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqp4nev13qo

    Trying to remember how it used to be, when I was a lad. I'm thinking Essex, England, Union, EU for the four flags, but maybe I'm wrong. That would really have exploded Reform heads.
    But at least that made sense. Piccadilly Station flies the red British Rail flag (signifying that this is a station), the Union Flag (signifying that this is a station in the UK), and the rainbiw flag (signifying that this is a station in the UK where we don't hate gay people). It always strikes me as wildly incongruous that this is deemed the third most important thing that is shown by flag.
    In fact, it is even more wildly specific that that, ut is tge rainbow flag with the extra stripes and the triangles and the circle, signifying, AIUI, that we don't hate gay people, not even black or brown ones, and we are on-board with gender being sonething you can choose rather than something you are, and we are fine about people who don't fancy anyone in a sexual way. Which strikes me as sneaking one wildly controversial view into three wildly uncontroversial ones. In any case, a strange set of things for a station to be declaring by flag alongside the two less surprising ones of it being a station in the UK.
    The peepul aren't quite so keen on not hating gay people as they used to be. Probably too many rainbow flags.

    PinkNews
    @PinkNews
    Best and worst countries to be LGBTQ+ in Europe in 2026 revealed https://thepinknews.com/2026/05/12/eur

    https://x.com/PinkNews/status/2055136118094320001?s=20
    I think there's been a sea change here, even though the UK is about 40% down the Pink News league table.

    For example, the Conservatives pledged a ban on "conversion therapy" back in 2018, and Labour have put it in the Kings Speech. I am not aware of any political parties that support it, other than perhaps some fringe groups. Ref UK are silent afaics.

    In the USA there are still fairly major groups on the Christian Right, such as the Alliance Defending Freedom. Even groups broadly on the religious right in the UK don't take that stance.
    Aaaargh. Typo.

    "In the USA there are still fairly major groups on the Christian Right, such as the Alliance Defending Freedom, who defend conversion therapy. Even groups broadly on the religious right in the UK don't take that stance.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,429

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    It isn't the task of the media to be a PR company for any government. This government has been terrible at communications, and especially the art of communicating convincingly by answering questions and not being evasive.

    also terrible decision making. Sacking Robbins and then clinging on....

    I think that is largely correct.

    But neither is it the job of Allister Heath and Allison Pearson to represent fiction as fact. The job of the Telegraph ( and GB News and Talk TV) is to report the news objectively not to use smoke and mirrors to roll the pitch for the next Government in 3,4,5 years time. One could argue a competent Government should have the wherewithal to call out and correct inaccuracies, but it seems this one didn't.

    Starmer is wholly to blame for this.
    Largely agree, but there is no such thing as objective news coverage. They could all try harder to separate fact and opinion. So we have to rely on an open free media.

    There are loads of outlets who would reasonably fairly but critically report on Labour doing well. Mirror, Guardian, FT, New Statesman, Economist, Ch4, ITV, BBC, Times to some extent, vast numbers on X and other social media. An infinity of podcasts.

    As to the Right Wing media, in general they gave the Tories a hard time in government IIRC. I find it hard to follow because it's unreadable.

    Whereas I accept there will be a bias when reporting news, any news, it is the out and out lies I was objecting to.

    It's like giving a false equivalent to reporting by Rachel Maddows and. Jesse Watters. Maddows takes a story, reports the story and opines from the left. Jesse Watters ignores any story but just makes stuff up with no basis upon fact, to promote his cause, which is invariably Trump.
    Largely agree. I think in this particular age the prevalence of lies is going to be a reality and unavoidable. I imagine most people just avoid wasting much time on lying outlets. I think everyone knows that in a social media age you have the same sort of duty towards fact checking and lie detection that you do towards locking your front door when you go on holiday.

    In outlets regarded as responsible (there are lots) the principle distortion is done by story selection. Take the BBC, which I greatly admire. They would, I think, never run a series, fully researched, to try to demonstrate all the ways in which people manipulate and abuse the benefits and welfare system. Or do detailed case studies on how particular families spend years and generations doing little at our expense. (The sort of project the odious Matt Goodwin would be fond of). But they are never short of super people who are going to suffer egregiously from any change in the system.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    I'm sorry to say, but that's a pretty snivelling response.

    Ukraine is in an existential fight against a brutal dictator. And the first thing Reform does is take down the flag of Ukraine? That really is performative, isn't it?

    And this from a party led by someone who repeated Kremlin talking points when comfortably ensconced in the European Parliament.

    Nauseating, and a timely reminder to Tories about why they should have no truck with these populists.
    The replacement of performative flag flying with national flag flying does not stop when there's a performative flag for a cause one really really really likes. There are plenty of people who feel every bit as strongly about pride flags. I am glad they are going. These councils serve British communities - they are not there to preach about what the people in those communities should care about or prioritise.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    How do you feel about a Union flag and a flag of St George ( getting tattier and more ragged by the day) on the lampposts of Worcestershire at the ratepayers' expense?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,449
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    Though even Labour, LDs and Greens combined would fall just short of a majority on Birmingham council now, hence the Labour group leader has said she will take her group into opposition.

    Kemi is suspending any Tory group leaders who do deals with Greens, see Worcestershire yesterday, so that rules out a Tory, LD and Green and Independents deal.

    So it looks like Birmingham will be run by a Reform minority administration
    Sounds like a similar setup to Bradford then, except that Reform + Tory has a slim majority. And will even if Reform lose the by-election for the seat where their winning candidate didn't fancy it.
    If Kemi is being consistent she should also suspend any Bradford Tory group leaders who do deals with Reform, fair enough suspending the Worcestershire group Tory leader for doing a deal with the Greens but she has to be consistent. Otherwise Labour, the LDs and Greens will just say 'Vote Tory, Get Reform'. Just leave Reform in Bradford to run a minority administration as they will likely do now in Birmingham
    What I understand is that the Bradford Tories won't formally support Reform, but won't stand in their way either. As second largest group, they will then be the official opposition to the group they are "not supporting".
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,564
    Flying any flag of any kind is performative.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    How do you feel about a Union flag and a flag of St George ( getting tattier and more ragged by the day) on the lampposts of Worcestershire at the ratepayers' expense?
    I see it as a peaceful protest that I have some sympathy with. In the long term, I would prefer flags to be reserved for flagpoles.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223
    dixiedean said:

    Flying any flag of any kind is performative.

    I don't like the word. The even less likeable 'virtue-signalling' is probably more apt.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,833

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    I'm sorry to say, but that's a pretty snivelling response.

    Ukraine is in an existential fight against a brutal dictator. And the first thing Reform does is take down the flag of Ukraine? That really is performative, isn't it?

    And this from a party led by someone who repeated Kremlin talking points when comfortably ensconced in the European Parliament.

    Nauseating, and a timely reminder to Tories about why they should have no truck with these populists.
    R is for Reform, R is for Russia.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,916

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    How do you feel about a Union flag and a flag of St George ( getting tattier and more ragged by the day) on the lampposts of Worcestershire at the ratepayers' expense?
    I see it as a peaceful protest that I have some sympathy with. In the long term, I would prefer flags to be reserved for flagpoles.
    It's fine to litter the country if you attach it to a lamppost - well it's a viewpoint..
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    And put a dent in Chinese manufacturing, result!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,335
    Nigelb said:

    This sounds remarkably stupid.

    Labour has ruled out a coalition to run Birmingham City Council, making a working majority harder to form

    Greens have 19 councillors and Lib Dems 12 - well short of the 51 needed.

    Reform UK (23 seats) has also ruled itself out of talks.

    https://x.com/LewisJWarner/status/2055343853222121655

    In some authorities when the officers do all the thinking its a Bad Thing. Probably not in Birmingham. Have the councillors just sit there throwing bread rolls at each other and let the officers actually run the council...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,198
    dixiedean said:

    Flying any flag of any kind is performative.

    I mean, that's the point of them. But performative actions are only valueless when they are a substitute for meaningful action.

    If they're a symbol for people to rally around, to reinforce the determination to take concrete action, then the performance has a purpose and value.

    I think the UK has provided enough support to Ukraine that flying the Ukraine flag is not merely performative, but also symbolic of that support. Removing the flag sends a message that Reform don't want to be a part of that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    I'm sorry to say, but that's a pretty snivelling response.

    Ukraine is in an existential fight against a brutal dictator. And the first thing Reform does is take down the flag of Ukraine? That really is performative, isn't it?

    And this from a party led by someone who repeated Kremlin talking points when comfortably ensconced in the European Parliament.

    Nauseating, and a timely reminder to Tories about why they should have no truck with these populists.
    The replacement of performative flag flying with national flag flying does not stop when there's a performative flag for a cause one really really really likes. There are plenty of people who feel every bit as strongly about pride flags. I am glad they are going. These councils serve British communities - they are not there to preach about what the people in those communities should care about or prioritise.
    But Reform and its ilk flying Union flags and flags of St George on lampposts are both performative and often threatening. The flags are flown as a "f*** off" to non English/ British. I know this because in 1970s Herefordshire the flag of St George was displayed to ward off the neighbouring Welsh. Likewise Loyalists painting flagstones in Antrim and Republicans painting flagstones in Derry.

    At his home, Peter Robinson has a massive flagpole with a flag of St George fluttering in the wind, you can see it above the secure fences of his gated gaff. I took it to performatively mean "f*** off Catholics".
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    It isn't the task of the media to be a PR company for any government. This government has been terrible at communications, and especially the art of communicating convincingly by answering questions and not being evasive.

    also terrible decision making. Sacking Robbins and then clinging on....

    I think that is largely correct.

    But neither is it the job of Allister Heath and Allison Pearson to represent fiction as fact. The job of the Telegraph ( and GB News and Talk TV) is to report the news objectively not to use smoke and mirrors to roll the pitch for the next Government in 3,4,5 years time. One could argue a competent Government should have the wherewithal to call out and correct inaccuracies, but it seems this one didn't.

    Starmer is wholly to blame for this.
    Largely agree, but there is no such thing as objective news coverage. They could all try harder to separate fact and opinion. So we have to rely on an open free media.

    There are loads of outlets who would reasonably fairly but critically report on Labour doing well. Mirror, Guardian, FT, New Statesman, Economist, Ch4, ITV, BBC, Times to some extent, vast numbers on X and other social media. An infinity of podcasts.

    As to the Right Wing media, in general they gave the Tories a hard time in government IIRC. I find it hard to follow because it's unreadable.

    Whereas I accept there will be a bias when reporting news, any news, it is the out and out lies I was objecting to.

    It's like giving a false equivalent to reporting by Rachel Maddows and. Jesse Watters. Maddows takes a story, reports the story and opines from the left. Jesse Watters ignores any story but just makes stuff up with no basis upon fact, to promote his cause, which is invariably Trump.
    Largely agree. I think in this particular age the prevalence of lies is going to be a reality and unavoidable. I imagine most people just avoid wasting much time on lying outlets. I think everyone knows that in a social media age you have the same sort of duty towards fact checking and lie detection that you do towards locking your front door when you go on holiday.

    In outlets regarded as responsible (there are lots) the principle distortion is done by story selection. Take the BBC, which I greatly admire. They would, I think, never run a series, fully researched, to try to demonstrate all the ways in which people manipulate and abuse the benefits and welfare system. Or do detailed case studies on how particular families spend years and generations doing little at our expense. (The sort of project the odious Matt Goodwin would be fond of). But they are never short of super people who are going to suffer egregiously from any change in the system.
    The BBC did a recent, much lauded series on people abusing the asylum system, with their lawyers telling them to pretend to be gay and other tactics: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86eew6jpjgo Panorama had a big expose of people cheating on language tests, that led to government action: https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Investigation-into-the-response-to-cheating-in-English-language-tests-Summary.pdf Their Fraud Squad show has covered benefits cheats: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0c2p9wb BBC News has covered benefit fraud cases, like https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57091551 and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68774242
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,323
    The UK is not the USA .

    We don’t really do flags stuck up in peoples gardens or hanging from their houses unless it’s during big sporting events .


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,564
    nico67 said:

    The UK is not the USA .

    We don’t really do flags stuck up in peoples gardens or hanging from their houses unless it’s during big sporting events .


    nico67 said:

    The UK is not the USA .

    We don’t really do flags stuck up in peoples gardens or hanging from their houses unless it’s during big sporting events .


    Increasingly yes we do.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    dixiedean said:

    Flying any flag of any kind is performative.

    I mean, that's the point of them. But performative actions are only valueless when they are a substitute for meaningful action.

    If they're a symbol for people to rally around, to reinforce the determination to take concrete action, then the performance has a purpose and value.

    I think the UK has provided enough support to Ukraine that flying the Ukraine flag is not merely performative, but also symbolic of that support. Removing the flag sends a message that Reform don't want to be a part of that.
    It sends a message that the defeat of the Russian invasion of Ukraine does not have parity with (or in cases where there is only one flag, priority over) Britain itself. That is the right message. This Iran war has already shown us up as having a worringly incapable military and virtually no missile defence. That needs to be the first security priority, or there will be no Britain to support Ukraine or anyone else.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,138

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.

    How long until the interruption in oil tankers leaving the Gulf turns into an interruption in oil tankers arriving in Europe and America?

    And is Eagles on holiday then?
    Well I finish work on Tuesday and don't go back until the following Tuesday.

    It's not a holiday per se.

    Just seeing some friends across the UK, going to the cinema to watch the Baby Yoda film.
    United the Kingdom march followed by the cinema? ;-)

    The Baby yoda film looks worse than having to attend the rally.
    Is the racist march finishing early before the football?
    Strange scheduling, I expect every central London pub will be locked down.
    Any music fans, IOW newcomer semifinal at Bush hall tonight, won't cost more than £15 a ticket.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    And put a dent in Chinese manufacturing, result!
    Quite.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    Got my big Union Jack, Palestinian flag and Man City shirt all packed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,499
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    It would be nice if the Flag loving Racist Reform Chimps round here stopped putting flags up on lamp-posts.
    I don't think that is actually Reform, although it may be partly some of their far right factions.

    It is more the types who would identify with Yaxley-Lennon. For example "Raise the Colours" is organised by people who have associated with him. But IMO this has perhaps evolved, like Lennon's own operation, into a commercial grifting setup.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,833
    Pulpstar said:

    Got my big Union Jack, Palestinian flag and Man City shirt all packed.

    No EU flag? For shame 😉
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,564
    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header!

    So the thing to watch for is how Trump TACOs from his Iranian swamp.

    How long until the interruption in oil tankers leaving the Gulf turns into an interruption in oil tankers arriving in Europe and America?

    And is Eagles on holiday then?
    Well I finish work on Tuesday and don't go back until the following Tuesday.

    It's not a holiday per se.

    Just seeing some friends across the UK, going to the cinema to watch the Baby Yoda film.
    United the Kingdom march followed by the cinema? ;-)

    The Baby yoda film looks worse than having to attend the rally.
    Is the racist march finishing early before the football?
    Strange scheduling, I expect every central London pub will be locked down.
    Any music fans, IOW newcomer semifinal at Bush hall tonight, won't cost more than £15 a ticket.
    Such a shame we aren't hosting Eurovision.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    How the myth that Labour have done nothing in 2 years became fixed in the minds of voters .

    A relentless anti Labour campaign by the media and poor No 10 communications culminated in where we are today.

    It isn't the task of the media to be a PR company for any government. This government has been terrible at communications, and especially the art of communicating convincingly by answering questions and not being evasive.

    also terrible decision making. Sacking Robbins and then clinging on....

    I think that is largely correct.

    But neither is it the job of Allister Heath and Allison Pearson to represent fiction as fact. The job of the Telegraph ( and GB News and Talk TV) is to report the news objectively not to use smoke and mirrors to roll the pitch for the next Government in 3,4,5 years time. One could argue a competent Government should have the wherewithal to call out and correct inaccuracies, but it seems this one didn't.

    Starmer is wholly to blame for this.
    Largely agree, but there is no such thing as objective news coverage. They could all try harder to separate fact and opinion. So we have to rely on an open free media.

    There are loads of outlets who would reasonably fairly but critically report on Labour doing well. Mirror, Guardian, FT, New Statesman, Economist, Ch4, ITV, BBC, Times to some extent, vast numbers on X and other social media. An infinity of podcasts.

    As to the Right Wing media, in general they gave the Tories a hard time in government IIRC. I find it hard to follow because it's unreadable.

    Whereas I accept there will be a bias when reporting news, any news, it is the out and out lies I was objecting to.

    It's like giving a false equivalent to reporting by Rachel Maddows and. Jesse Watters. Maddows takes a story, reports the story and opines from the left. Jesse Watters ignores any story but just makes stuff up with no basis upon fact, to promote his cause, which is invariably Trump.
    Largely agree. I think in this particular age the prevalence of lies is going to be a reality and unavoidable. I imagine most people just avoid wasting much time on lying outlets. I think everyone knows that in a social media age you have the same sort of duty towards fact checking and lie detection that you do towards locking your front door when you go on holiday.

    In outlets regarded as responsible (there are lots) the principle distortion is done by story selection. Take the BBC, which I greatly admire. They would, I think, never run a series, fully researched, to try to demonstrate all the ways in which people manipulate and abuse the benefits and welfare system. Or do detailed case studies on how particular families spend years and generations doing little at our expense. (The sort of project the odious Matt Goodwin would be fond of). But they are never short of super people who are going to suffer egregiously from any change in the system.
    The BBC are to an extent even more pernicious. Providing false equivalence is unforgivable. Giving equal billing to the Chairman of the World Bank and Andrea Leadsom to determine the economic effects of Brexit was outrageous. The BBC were also great exponents of the Minford Paradigm. Once again providing a disreputable but largely hidden false equivalence. Theyveould take their pick of any one of 1,000 economists who would maintain Brexit was an economic disaster against Patrick Minford, who was the only one who thought Brexit would be great.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223
    ...

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    And put a dent in Chinese manufacturing, result!
    Quite.
    My friend has made lots of money selling Union Jack and English flags in the last year or so.

    Abdul says he’s made so much money he can finally bring the rest of his family to the UK from Afghanistan.
    Commendably enterprising.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444

    HYUFD said:

    What a snivelling little shit Nadhim Zahawi is.

    A vote for Reform is a vote for Putin.

    Nigel Farage is a [redacted].

    All three statements are undoubtedly true. But is there a (recent) context for statement one?
    So the Reform council in Essex has taken down the flag of Ukraine from the council HQ.

    James Cleverly criticised it.

    Here's one of Farage's top aides defending it

    If you were wondering why the Conservative Party just suffered its worst defeat in Essex - and why it will cease to exist there after the next general election - look no further.

    The Tories spent 14 years treating the national interest as one priority among many.


    https://x.com/jtworr/status/2055551524919468384

    Nadhim Zahawi retweeted it and other comments defending the decisions and wrote this

    No one disagrees that we should remain steadfast in our support of the brave Ukrainians. I still believe that public services should be focused on delivery for the British people & our flag is a proud reminder of who we prioritise.

    https://x.com/nadhimzahawi

    His former colleagues are calling out his pro-Putinism

    Reform being so openly hostile to Britain’s support for Ukraine is one of the most off-putting things about them.

    Flying the flag of a free and sovereign Ukraine is a mark of our upholding their right to exist as a nation in the face of the murder, rape and pillage of Putin’s unprovoked invasion.

    Doing so does not detract from or diminish Britain’s national interest. It enhances it. We have a clear national interest in the defence of Europe, and not emboldening further Russian aggression.

    I am also astonished to see @nadhimzahawi retweeting what Mr Orr posted. He, like me, served in the Cabinet of @BorisJohnson.

    He, like me, knows how critical Britain’s military and moral support has been to preventing a Russian conquest. He used to believe in these things.


    https://x.com/SirSimonClarke/status/2055558413845667871
    Reform's official policy is only the Union or county flags should fly from government or council buildings, they say they still support Ukraine but their policy is consistent. They will also ban flying of Pride flags on government and council buildings, which many will also be appalled by
    Bollocks.

    The outrage is the Reform traitors saying that helping Ukraine isn't in the UK's national interest and the top priority for the UK in so many ways.
    I am looking forward to the end of the era of performative emoting via flag. It will at the very least save on flags.
    How do you feel about a Union flag and a flag of St George ( getting tattier and more ragged by the day) on the lampposts of Worcestershire at the ratepayers' expense?
    If it cost the ratepayers money to have them put up, it will clearly cost them money to have them taken down. The weather will reduce them to strings free of charge!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,791

    "The Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) told BBC Verify that the 2024 mayoral election cost it £4,719,754."

    So we can put a price on Burnham's vanity.

    Do we know anyone with a spare £5 million they could chip in?

    And he'd still have change to buy a decent size house in Makerfield.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,784

    "The Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) told BBC Verify that the 2024 mayoral election cost it £4,719,754."

    So we can put a price on Burnham's vanity.

    Do we know anyone with a spare £5 million they could chip in?

    And he'd still have change to buy a decent size housing estate in Makerfield.
    FYFY
This discussion has been closed.