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Ed Miliband becomes favourite to be next PM whilst Andy Burnham reeks of desperation

SystemSystem Posts: 13,170
edited May 13 in General
Ed Miliband becomes favourite to be next PM whilst Andy Burnham reeks of desperation - politicalbetting.com

NEW: Friends of Keir Starmer say he will stand against Wes Streeting in a leadership contest if the health secretary has the numbers to trigger one“I am certain he will stand,” one says of the PMSo question now is does Streeting have the numbers?https://t.co/tZ4tpV3td3

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Comments

  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    first?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Second, like Starmer
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    edited May 13
    Third like Starmer - if he stands.

    Edit - are we ready for the peace and quiet we will get under the Chaos that will come from Ed Miliband being PM.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Lewis Goodall making a strong case for a Miliband PM on LBC right now
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,132
    EICIPM!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579
    I still think Labour have their best leader currently in charge. Changing now will be a huge mistake that they won't be able to undo because all of the challengers are fundamentally shit. I really think they need to wait a couple of years for a new intake or other challenger to appear who isn't completely shit. Though I guess the 2019 and 2024 intake aren't of brilliant quality.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    Sweeney74 said:

    Burnham is looking increasingly both entitled and desperate, not a good look

    Man, I thought you were talking about one of our posters for a moment there.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    MaxPB said:

    I still think Labour have their best leader currently in charge. Changing now will be a huge mistake that they won't be able to undo because all of the challengers are fundamentally shit. I really think they need to wait a couple of years for a new intake or other challenger to appear who isn't completely shit. Though I guess the 2019 and 2024 intake aren't of brilliant quality.

    I fully agree.

    Now I'm biased. I assume that any alternative is going to be worse than Starmer. He or she will be expected to tack towards those voters who want revenge socialism, hate Zionism, and object to curbs on immigration. Such a stance would pretty much guarantee a Labour defeat, in 2029, but it would give us an unpeasant three years.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    My Aberdeen based brother refers to him as Ed 'Thatcher' Miliband. I wasn't quite sure what he meant at first but the locals very much see him as an advocate for closing down their industry the same way Thatcher did with the mines. It's baffling to them that you can be importing stuff from Norway because their fields are just the other side of the international divide but disregarding our own.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    I still think Labour have their best leader currently in charge. Changing now will be a huge mistake that they won't be able to undo because all of the challengers are fundamentally shit. I really think they need to wait a couple of years for a new intake or other challenger to appear who isn't completely shit. Though I guess the 2019 and 2024 intake aren't of brilliant quality.

    I fully agree.

    Now I'm biased. I assume that any alternative is going to be worse than Starmer. He or she will be expected to tack towards those voters who want revenge socialism, hate Zionism, and object to curbs on immigration. Such a stance would pretty much guarantee a Labour defeat, in 2029, but it would give us an unpeasant three years.
    Most of the challengers are fundamentally unserious people, one way or another.

    But Stamer is so politically tone deaf, that it is entirely possible that one of the alternatives would be less awful for Labour electorally. With Starmer left in charge, damaged beyond repair, his authority shot, the chances of there being any Labour MPs returned in 2029 has to be diminishing by the day.

    If I were a Labour MP, I'd roll the dice.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    Jeez. I step away from the keyboard for an hour or so and come back to find Ed M is favourite.

    This is wild.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    rcs1000 said:

    So, the choice is:

    (1) Ed Milliband. Who is boring. And weird. And not obviously either competent or charismatic.
    (2) Wes Streeting. Who I can't remember ever saying a single word. I mean, who is this man?
    (3) Angela Rayner. Who is charasmatic! And ethically challenged. And far to the Left of the average British voter. But who does have a bit of fight in her.
    (4) Andy Burnham. Who is not an MP. And is also -if we're going to be honest- weird and nasal sounding, like Ed Milliband. It is possible he is not totally incompetent.

    Personally, if I was Labour, I'd roll the dice and go with Angela.

    Angela is ethically damaged for years because HMRC won't deal with her tax issues quickly.

    So I think we end up with Ed because he's not Wes and is actually an MP.

    Now in an ideal world SKS wouldn't be going but his problems come from July to September 2024 when Labour were not prepared for Government - so became continuation Rishi..
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    So, the choice is:

    (1) Ed Milliband. Who is boring. And weird. And not obviously either competent or charismatic.
    (2) Wes Streeting. Who I can't remember ever saying a single word. I mean, who is this man?
    (3) Angela Rayner. Who is charasmatic! And ethically challenged. And far to the Left of the average British voter. But who does have a bit of fight in her.
    (4) Andy Burnham. Who is not an MP. And is also -if we're going to be honest- weird and nasal sounding, like Ed Milliband. It is possible he is not totally incompetent.

    Personally, if I was Labour, I'd roll the dice and go with Angela.

    Angela is ethically damaged for years because HMRC won't deal with her tax issues quickly.

    So I think we end up with Ed because he's not Wes and is actually an MP.

    Now in an ideal world SKS wouldn't be going but his problems come from July to September 2024 when Labour were not prepared for Government - so became continuation Rishi..
    Ed Milliband is Continuity Keir.

    What about his brother? I heard he'd returned to the UK.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    I still think Labour have their best leader currently in charge. Changing now will be a huge mistake that they won't be able to undo because all of the challengers are fundamentally shit. I really think they need to wait a couple of years for a new intake or other challenger to appear who isn't completely shit. Though I guess the 2019 and 2024 intake aren't of brilliant quality.

    I fully agree.

    Now I'm biased. I assume that any alternative is going to be worse than Starmer. He or she will be expected to tack towards those voters who want revenge socialism, hate Zionism, and object to curbs on immigration. Such a stance would pretty much guarantee a Labour defeat, in 2029, but it would give us an unpeasant three years.
    Not necessarily. Pollsters point towards our country being divided, since the referendum, into two camps, with most people prepared to shop around within their camp but with relatively few people prepared to swing their vote across the divide. In which case, the criteria that we punters need to consider for the next election are, firstly, which of the two camps will be the larger, and second, which camp will most effectively co-operate so that its voters swing behind the most winnable candidate in each seat. The evidence currently points towards the centre-left caucus being more favourably placed than the right-wing caucus.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,743
    rcs1000 said:

    So, the choice is:

    (1) Ed Milliband. Who is boring. And weird. And not obviously either competent or charismatic.
    (2) Wes Streeting. Who I can't remember ever saying a single word. I mean, who is this man?
    (3) Angela Rayner. Who is charasmatic! And ethically challenged. And far to the Left of the average British voter. But who does have a bit of fight in her.
    (4) Andy Burnham. Who is not an MP. And is also -if we're going to be honest- weird and nasal sounding, like Ed Milliband. It is possible he is not totally incompetent.

    Personally, if I was Labour, I'd roll the dice and go with Angela.

    Ange was a bit rubbish earlier in the week when she was fawning over Burnham. But yes, with the names mentioned...
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    Kemi looking and sounding sharp, so far
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    A reminder why we are strict on certain comments. Remember what Dave said about Twitter?

    On behalf of their client, Zara Sultana, Bindmans Media and Information Law Practise Group requires that I publish the following statement on X, and that such statement must be clearly visible and pinned to my
    profile for a continuous period of no less than 24 hours:

    “On 30 March 2026, I published a post on my X account addressed to Zarah Sultana in which I stated that she encourages and incites violence and is friends with terrorists.

    Those statements are false. I was wrong and offer my sincere apologies to Ms Sultana for the harm and distress caused to her.”

    It is my very great pleasure to do this, and I reiterate my sincere and repeated offer to meet with Miss Zara Sultana in person to resolve our differences.

    https://x.com/KTHopkins/status/2054492187665084827
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    Sweeney74 said:

    Kemi looking and sounding sharp, so far

    Hey... she could cross the floor, and run for Labour leader.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    So, the choice is:

    (1) Ed Milliband. Who is boring. And weird. And not obviously either competent or charismatic.
    (2) Wes Streeting. Who I can't remember ever saying a single word. I mean, who is this man?
    (3) Angela Rayner. Who is charasmatic! And ethically challenged. And far to the Left of the average British voter. But who does have a bit of fight in her.
    (4) Andy Burnham. Who is not an MP. And is also -if we're going to be honest- weird and nasal sounding, like Ed Milliband. It is possible he is not totally incompetent.

    Personally, if I was Labour, I'd roll the dice and go with Angela.

    Angela is ethically damaged for years because HMRC won't deal with her tax issues quickly.

    So I think we end up with Ed because he's not Wes and is actually an MP.

    Now in an ideal world SKS wouldn't be going but his problems come from July to September 2024 when Labour were not prepared for Government - so became continuation Rishi..
    Ed Milliband is Continuity Keir.

    What about his brother? I heard he'd returned to the UK.
    The unions stopped him last time and I'm sure they'll oblige again if required.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    Can't we get Alan Johnson a safe seat somewhere quickly?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    A reminder why we are strict on certain comments. Remember what Dave said about Twitter?

    On behalf of their client, Zara Sultana, Bindmans Media and Information Law Practise Group requires that I publish the following statement on X, and that such statement must be clearly visible and pinned to my
    profile for a continuous period of no less than 24 hours:

    “On 30 March 2026, I published a post on my X account addressed to Zarah Sultana in which I stated that she encourages and incites violence and is friends with terrorists.

    Those statements are false. I was wrong and offer my sincere apologies to Ms Sultana for the harm and distress caused to her.”

    It is my very great pleasure to do this, and I reiterate my sincere and repeated offer to meet with Miss Zara Sultana in person to resolve our differences.

    https://x.com/KTHopkins/status/2054492187665084827

    That last sentence sounds a bit like a threat to me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,604
    This is a good idea, IMO.

    Nissan ponders building cars for Chinese rivals at Sunderland plant
    CEO admits talks with Chery as other European carmakers discuss plans with Chinese firms to share factory space
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/may/13/nissan-ponders-building-cars-for-chinese-rivals-at-sunderland-plant-chery

    It's either that, or lose manufacturing in the UK.
    But we need battery plants, too.

    A chance over the next decade to copy what China did to the west two decades ago.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    A reminder why we are strict on certain comments. Remember what Dave said about Twitter?

    On behalf of their client, Zara Sultana, Bindmans Media and Information Law Practise Group requires that I publish the following statement on X, and that such statement must be clearly visible and pinned to my
    profile for a continuous period of no less than 24 hours:

    “On 30 March 2026, I published a post on my X account addressed to Zarah Sultana in which I stated that she encourages and incites violence and is friends with terrorists.

    Those statements are false. I was wrong and offer my sincere apologies to Ms Sultana for the harm and distress caused to her.”

    It is my very great pleasure to do this, and I reiterate my sincere and repeated offer to meet with Miss Zara Sultana in person to resolve our differences.

    https://x.com/KTHopkins/status/2054492187665084827

    That last sentence sounds a bit like a threat to me.
    24 hours doesn't sound long?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    18 months of Ed as PM would be hilarious.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    Nigelb said:

    This is a good idea, IMO.

    Nissan ponders building cars for Chinese rivals at Sunderland plant
    CEO admits talks with Chery as other European carmakers discuss plans with Chinese firms to share factory space
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/may/13/nissan-ponders-building-cars-for-chinese-rivals-at-sunderland-plant-chery

    It's either that, or lose manufacturing in the UK.
    But we need battery plants, too.

    A chance over the next decade to copy what China did to the west two decades ago.

    There is already a battery plant at Sunderland - it's owned by the Chinese company Envision Group.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333
    rottenborough said:

    Jeez. I step away from the keyboard for an hour or so and come back to find Ed M is favourite.

    This is wild.

    Daaarling, Ed M is always favourite
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224
    edited May 13
    Nigelb said:

    This is a good idea, IMO.

    Nissan ponders building cars for Chinese rivals at Sunderland plant
    CEO admits talks with Chery as other European carmakers discuss plans with Chinese firms to share factory space
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/may/13/nissan-ponders-building-cars-for-chinese-rivals-at-sunderland-plant-chery

    It's either that, or lose manufacturing in the UK.
    But we need battery plants, too.

    A chance over the next decade to copy what China did to the west two decades ago.

    Why build them here? All it saves is a 10% tariff and some shipping. Surprised that's enough to bother given the larger costs.

    Unless they think they can have enough percentage manufactured here to get them into the EU or other places with higher tariffs tariff-free?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093
    I wonder who’s leaking anti Burnham stuff to the press.

    https://x.com/telegraph/status/2054554851422466498?s=61
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    A reminder why we are strict on certain comments. Remember what Dave said about Twitter?

    On behalf of their client, Zara Sultana, Bindmans Media and Information Law Practise Group requires that I publish the following statement on X, and that such statement must be clearly visible and pinned to my
    profile for a continuous period of no less than 24 hours:

    “On 30 March 2026, I published a post on my X account addressed to Zarah Sultana in which I stated that she encourages and incites violence and is friends with terrorists.

    Those statements are false. I was wrong and offer my sincere apologies to Ms Sultana for the harm and distress caused to her.”

    It is my very great pleasure to do this, and I reiterate my sincere and repeated offer to meet with Miss Zara Sultana in person to resolve our differences.

    https://x.com/KTHopkins/status/2054492187665084827

    That last sentence sounds a bit like a threat to me.
    I joined X to get election results fast, last week, and it really is a cess pit of bigotry and stupidity.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,743
    Nigelb said:

    This is a good idea, IMO.

    Nissan ponders building cars for Chinese rivals at Sunderland plant
    CEO admits talks with Chery as other European carmakers discuss plans with Chinese firms to share factory space
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/may/13/nissan-ponders-building-cars-for-chinese-rivals-at-sunderland-plant-chery

    It's either that, or lose manufacturing in the UK.
    But we need battery plants, too.

    A chance over the next decade to copy what China did to the west two decades ago.

    I called in to the local Suzuki dealer to book a service for my wife's car. They are now also agents for "Skywell". I'd never heard of them before.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    Taz said:

    I wonder who’s leaking anti Burnham stuff to the press.

    https://x.com/telegraph/status/2054554851422466498?s=61

    Why are they even bothering ? It looks like curtains for his bid to become PM .
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,128
    edited May 13
    Afternoon all.

    Ed M. Is by far the brighrest of the candidates. If he can igbore the media long enough to cobble back togethet his green growth and investment plan, that Starmer needlessly got rid of, then who knows what he might achueve.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    I wonder who’s leaking anti Burnham stuff to the press.

    https://x.com/telegraph/status/2054554851422466498?s=61

    Why are they even bothering ? It looks like curtains for his bid to become PM .
    Yup
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    https://x.com/camillahmturner/status/2054546420749787497

    Exclusive

    The starting gun for a leadership contest has not yet been fired - but preparations are already underway for the first hustings on Saturday in central London
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Kemi making Wes look distinctively sheepish, there
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    IanB2 said:

    Kemi making Wes look distinctively sheepish, there

    spectacular, wasn't it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    Great line from Kemi to Streeting on NHS failures 'why don't you just do your job', a few smiles from Labour MPs near by
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good idea, IMO.

    Nissan ponders building cars for Chinese rivals at Sunderland plant
    CEO admits talks with Chery as other European carmakers discuss plans with Chinese firms to share factory space
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/may/13/nissan-ponders-building-cars-for-chinese-rivals-at-sunderland-plant-chery

    It's either that, or lose manufacturing in the UK.
    But we need battery plants, too.

    A chance over the next decade to copy what China did to the west two decades ago.

    Why build them here? All it saves is a 10% tariff and some shipping. Surprised that's enough to bother given the larger costs.

    Unless they think they can have enough percentage manufactured here to get them into the EU or other places with higher tariffs tariff-free?
    They need capacity, there is a benefit from building locally (before the tax benefit for cheaper cars) and being local would protect them from the forthcoming consolidation of the x000 chinese brands
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Kemi’s doing pretty well, admittedly in front of an undefended goal
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    A reminder why we are strict on certain comments. Remember what Dave said about Twitter?

    On behalf of their client, Zara Sultana, Bindmans Media and Information Law Practise Group requires that I publish the following statement on X, and that such statement must be clearly visible and pinned to my
    profile for a continuous period of no less than 24 hours:

    “On 30 March 2026, I published a post on my X account addressed to Zarah Sultana in which I stated that she encourages and incites violence and is friends with terrorists.

    Those statements are false. I was wrong and offer my sincere apologies to Ms Sultana for the harm and distress caused to her.”

    It is my very great pleasure to do this, and I reiterate my sincere and repeated offer to meet with Miss Zara Sultana in person to resolve our differences.

    https://x.com/KTHopkins/status/2054492187665084827

    That last sentence sounds a bit like a threat to me.
    I joined X to get election results fast, last week, and it really is a cess pit of bigotry and stupidity.
    There's an excellent article from Nate Silver on just that issue.

    Basically, X has swung from one unrepresentative sample to another, only with added nastiness now.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,207
    Andy_JS said:

    18 months of Ed as PM would be hilarious.

    Say people who would never ever consider voting Labour in a months of Sundays.

    It's not your opinion that matters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    'Either Labour MPs agree with the PM's agenda, in which case why aren't they behind him, or they don't, in which case what are we all doing here'. Brilliant line from Kemi!
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    IanB2 said:

    Kemi’s doing pretty well, admittedly in front of an undefended goal

    you can only play the team in front of you
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    Kemi is taking labour apart

    Move over Farage
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,743
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Kemi is taking labour apart

    Move over Farage

    A penny, I mean £5m for your thoughts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,858
    Labour frontbench look awful, like they are all in detention getting lectured to by a stern teacher
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    HYUFD said:

    Labour frontbench look awful, like they are all in detention getting lectured to by a stern teacher

    LOL
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Kemi is taking labour apart

    Move over Farage

    Her critique of Starmer is cutting but the fact remains that most of the issues she criticises Labour for not resolving, in not yet two years, are those on which the Tories patently failed over more than a decade.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,743
    IanB2 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Kemi is taking labour apart

    Move over Farage

    Her critique of Starmer is cutting but the fact remains that most of the issues she criticises Labour for not resolving, in not yet two years, are those on which the Tories patently failed over more than a decade.
    I think she is entitled to the win today.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    That was pretty good, now for SKS
    Shouty or humble?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,743
    Sweeney74 said:

    That was pretty good, now for SKS
    Shouty or humble?

    Resigned?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    Kemi was very good and she looks great in that very fashionable outfit . Perhaps she can give Rayner some tips !
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    Mexicanpete said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    That was pretty good, now for SKS
    Shouty or humble?

    Resigned?
    Chortle
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    Kemi burns them alive.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    Magnificent. We have just been fed Farne oysters - on the top of Northumberland National Park
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    With the PM saying he has confidence in Streeting perhaps the latter will insist it's not allies of his talking about challenges.

    Smells like classic Ed M ruthlessness.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 6,012
    Starmer has clearly forgotten that Naz Shah was suspended from Labour for antisemitism. Now he celebrates her

    Hypocrite
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    kle4 said:

    With the PM saying he has confidence in Streeting perhaps the latter will insist it's not allies of his talking about challenges.

    Smells like classic Ed M ruthlessness.

    The soft left majority within Labour will be working hard to close off Streeting’s route to the top.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    oxfordsimon said:

    Starmer has clearly forgotten that Naz Shah was suspended from Labour for antisemitism. Now he celebrates her

    Hypocrite

    Is he also aware of what she said about CSE gangs?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Starmer’s doing pretty well in this debate, so far, as well
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    FrankBooth said:

    I don't know about others but I'm seeing some of the details from the latest report on the October 7 atrocities on my social media. I can't say I want to read it all in detail but it comes across as the most disgusting, depraved, sadistic, purposefully cruel thing I've ever seen. Someone like Sean F will know more with regard to behaviour in other wars and how rare it is but let us reflect on two and a half years of protest on our streets by people who it is hard to imagine ever considering any of that and many would probably deny it happened. We shouldn't hide our anger about what has happened to this country.

    I don't think the sadistic acts perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th are that unusual. British forces fighting the Indian Mutiny in 1857 did horrific things, and Russian forces in Ukraine also.

    What arguably sets the events of October 7th apart is that atrocities were not committed following a battle to take territory. The atrocities on October 7th were the entire purpose of the attacks. They were the beginning and end of the Hamas strategy.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    I wonder whether Streeting will come to understand that his timing has been seriously awry?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    I wonder whether Streeting will come to understand that his timing has been seriously awry?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    Next PM, BE

    Ed 4.2
    Burnham 5.9
    Rayner 7.4
    Streeting 7.6
    Carns 29
    Mahmood 38
    Cooper 40

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    LostPassword said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I don't know about others but I'm seeing some of the details from the latest report on the October 7 atrocities on my social media. I can't say I want to read it all in detail but it comes across as the most disgusting, depraved, sadistic, purposefully cruel thing I've ever seen. Someone like Sean F will know more with regard to behaviour in other wars and how rare it is but let us reflect on two and a half years of protest on our streets by people who it is hard to imagine ever considering any of that and many would probably deny it happened. We shouldn't hide our anger about what has happened to this country.

    I don't think the sadistic acts perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th are that unusual. British forces fighting the Indian Mutiny in 1857 did horrific things, and Russian forces in Ukraine also.

    What arguably sets the events of October 7th apart is that atrocities were not committed following a battle to take territory. The atrocities on October 7th were the entire purpose of the attacks. They were the beginning and end of the Hamas strategy.
    The Russians certainly committed horrific rape and torture. But the bodily mutilation? And of course the cruelty of sending the videos to the relatives so they could see what was happening to their loved ones. I suppose that's only been a modern phenomenon.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    edited May 13
    FrankBooth said:

    I don't know about others but I'm seeing some of the details from the latest report on the October 7 atrocities on my social media. I can't say I want to read it all in detail but it comes across as the most disgusting, depraved, sadistic, purposefully cruel thing I've ever seen. Someone like Sean F will know more with regard to behaviour in other wars and how rare it is but let us reflect on two and a half years of protest on our streets by people who it is hard to imagine ever considering any of that and many would probably deny it happened. We shouldn't hide our anger about what has happened to this country.

    It's the sort of stuff that Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger, or some units of the Imperial Japanese Army, did. I tried to read Iris Chang's account of the Rape of Nanking, and and I had to give up, it was so nauseating. I doubt if anyone will ever write a history of the Dirlewangers, because no one would have the stomach for it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    Andy_JS said:

    Next PM, BE

    Ed 4.2
    Burnham 5.9
    Rayner 7.4
    Streeting 7.6
    Carns 29
    Mahmood 38
    Cooper 40

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961

    What prices Kemi and Nigel? They must be massive value right now.

    Remember that Corbyn managed to stay on as leader, when put to the membership.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    IanB2 said:

    I wonder whether Streeting will come to understand that his timing has been seriously awry?

    In which direction? It would have been hard for him to move against Starmer at the height of the Mandelson scandal.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,355
    Sean_F said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I don't know about others but I'm seeing some of the details from the latest report on the October 7 atrocities on my social media. I can't say I want to read it all in detail but it comes across as the most disgusting, depraved, sadistic, purposefully cruel thing I've ever seen. Someone like Sean F will know more with regard to behaviour in other wars and how rare it is but let us reflect on two and a half years of protest on our streets by people who it is hard to imagine ever considering any of that and many would probably deny it happened. We shouldn't hide our anger about what has happened to this country.

    It's the sort of stuff that Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger, or some units of the Imperial Japanese Army, did.
    The analogy that comes to my mind is actually the Manson family albeit on a much larger scale.

    The main point of similarity is that they both intended their appalling atrocities to incite a much larger race war - in Manson's case between blacks and whites, and in Hamas's case between Israelis and Arabs.

    And of course both failed in this goal, so the damage they inflicted came to nothing.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Next PM, BE

    Ed 4.2
    Burnham 5.9
    Rayner 7.4
    Streeting 7.6
    Carns 29
    Mahmood 38
    Cooper 40

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961

    What prices Kemi and Nigel? They must be massive value right now.

    Remember that Corbyn managed to stay on as leader, when put to the membership.
    Farage is available at 25
    Badenoch 66
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 6,012
    Starmer's speech is better written than Monday's derivative nonsense. It's not better delivered and is not a good speech. But the writing is an improvement

    But Starmer is not good at handling interventions

    And the repeated references to his late brother is nauseating. He has suffered a personal lost. But it is wrong to seek to exploit it for political gain.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,117
    Burnham MPs getting ridiculous.

    “A contest with Burnham would be illegitimate.”

    He’s not an MP!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    FrankBooth said:

    LostPassword said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I don't know about others but I'm seeing some of the details from the latest report on the October 7 atrocities on my social media. I can't say I want to read it all in detail but it comes across as the most disgusting, depraved, sadistic, purposefully cruel thing I've ever seen. Someone like Sean F will know more with regard to behaviour in other wars and how rare it is but let us reflect on two and a half years of protest on our streets by people who it is hard to imagine ever considering any of that and many would probably deny it happened. We shouldn't hide our anger about what has happened to this country.

    I don't think the sadistic acts perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th are that unusual. British forces fighting the Indian Mutiny in 1857 did horrific things, and Russian forces in Ukraine also.

    What arguably sets the events of October 7th apart is that atrocities were not committed following a battle to take territory. The atrocities on October 7th were the entire purpose of the attacks. They were the beginning and end of the Hamas strategy.
    The Russians certainly committed horrific rape and torture. But the bodily mutilation? And of course the cruelty of sending the videos to the relatives so they could see what was happening to their loved ones. I suppose that's only been a modern phenomenon.
    It's not uncommon to take enemy body parts as trophies, (both sides did it in the Pacific War), but usually, they are taken from dead bodies.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    Andy_JS said:

    Next PM, BE

    Ed 4.2
    Burnham 5.9
    Rayner 7.4
    Streeting 7.6
    Carns 29
    Mahmood 38
    Cooper 40

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961

    I’ve just got signal back as I tramp the Fells eating oysters and terrine


    Jesus tittyfucking Christ on a cracker

    Ed Miliband?

    Please no
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,743
    Leon_VotedForStarmer said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Next PM, BE

    Ed 4.2
    Burnham 5.9
    Rayner 7.4
    Streeting 7.6
    Carns 29
    Mahmood 38
    Cooper 40

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961

    I’ve just got signal back as I tramp the Fells eating oysters and terrine


    Jesus tittyfucking Christ on a cracker

    Ed Miliband?

    Please no
    No internet in Pseuds Corner?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    IanB2 said:

    I wonder whether Streeting will come to understand that his timing has been seriously awry?

    He had to go immediately or not at all. Otherwise Burnham has the big mo.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,624
    Both Badenoch's and Starmer's speeches this afternoon were pretty good; some quite witty one-liners from each of them. You wouldn't really think Starmer was under such intense pressure - he seemed pretty relaxed, especially for the first ten minutes of his remarks, which included some humour and a bit of self-deprecation. If only he'd showed more of this side of himself earlier.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    BatteryCorrectHorse said:

    Burnham MPs getting ridiculous.

    “A contest with Burnham would be illegitimate.”

    He’s not an MP!

    Classic candidate take. Boris's people said if he didn't make the final two to go to members it would be outrageous. He need not have worried, he had the MPs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,743
    kle4 said:

    BatteryCorrectHorse said:

    Burnham MPs getting ridiculous.

    “A contest with Burnham would be illegitimate.”

    He’s not an MP!

    Classic candidate take. Boris's people said if he didn't make the final two to go to members it would be outrageous. He need not have worried, he was an MP.
    FTFY
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    Mexicanpete said:

    Leon_VotedForStarmer said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Next PM, BE

    Ed 4.2
    Burnham 5.9
    Rayner 7.4
    Streeting 7.6
    Carns 29
    Mahmood 38
    Cooper 40

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961

    I’ve just got signal back as I tramp the Fells eating oysters and terrine


    Jesus tittyfucking Christ on a cracker

    Ed Miliband?

    Please no
    No internet in Pseuds Corner?
    Yes. Also pressed ham hock with wild garlic pesto



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    So much fun because Burmham didn't want to try for a seat in 2024. He made the judgement, it made sense as you'd think the winner of that would be safe for years, but it's ultimately his own fault.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    Miliband would be the best option as PM right now. The problem is it's David, not Ed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    williamglenn said:

    BatteryCorrectHorse said:

    Burnham MPs getting ridiculous.

    “A contest with Burnham would be illegitimate.”

    He’s not an MP!

    It's traditional for any incoming Labour leader to test his mettle against Andy Burnham in a leadership contest. That's what Miliband and Corbyn did, and when this process wasn't followed with Starmer, it resulted in the disaster of a landslide election win.
    Best take yet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    Andy_JS said:

    Miliband would be the best option as PM right now. The problem is it's David, not Ed.

    Is there a third Miliband to choose from?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    Andy_JS said:

    Miliband would be the best option as PM right now. The problem is it's David, not Ed.

    I can definitely get behind that!
    Looks at book, wonders why he's not listed by betfair anymore.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    Rothbury black pudding with Coquet Island scallops!


This discussion has been closed.

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