I think I'm one of the few here who believes this is about policy, not personality.
Keir Starmer's policies do us harm. If he were quietly getting on with doing things that genuinely allowed our economy to thrive a little more, if he were negotiating with other world leaders determined to get the best deal for the UK, if he were to prioritise genuinely inexpensive energy (not energy that merely says it's cheap but costs more each year), and if he did whatever it took to reduce crime and illegal immigration, he would be a legend. Everyone is obsessed by him not being a Mark Carney figure, so he could put a better spin on the shit sandwich he's serving up. That might help temporarily, but by now people would still have his number. The issue is the sausage not the sizzle.
The strangest thing was both Labour and the Tories clinging onto the London life raft.
Without London it would have been a complete catastrophe for the Tories aswell.
What it highlights is the difference in the Tory voter in the capital and elsewhere .
I had the very same thought today. The two main parties have both become “London parties” - which is a big change for the country and absolutely catastrophic for Labour and Conservative
It’s also as predicted on the timeline of David Betz, the KCL academic who thinks civil strife is heading our way
I would argue that the two main parties have been London parties for a good 30 years or so.
Despite her Grantham origins, Thatcher was very London focused. Her seat was there and she cared a lot about the City, and not much at all about the areas that we now know as the Red Wall.
Just like @kinabalu although he's a soft Left version of the same phenomenon.
Embarrassed at being from the regions and their parochial upbringing.
Strange that Kemi has avoided the flak. The once mighty Tories have not only had the worst day of all the parties and are clearly going backwards but the Tories under her leadership is the one most certain not to be in contention for anything in 2028-9.
Perhaps the newshounds are giving SKS a going over before they turn their guns on her? Surely her chances of surviving the year as leader must be very slim indeed?
I think she gets to live on until next local elections because same problem as Labour, who is up to the job and actually wants to do it. Also with the tetonic plates shifting under Labour, I presume the Tories will want to know who they are actually going to be up against come the GE. If they get another spanking in the locals in a years time, this time in much more shire heavy locals, then all the "I am turning around the titanic" narrative will be done for.
The Kemical Weapon has proved surprisingly durable. If only she were 20-30% less black, she might actually have a shot at being PM.
If she found herself a sense of humour and stopped reminding everyone of their least favourite headmistress I don't think anyone would care less what Pantone she was using
Once you get north of the M62 'chip line' it's nothing but racists as far as the eye can see. The tories like to pretend this doesn't matter, but it does.
Off thread, I was sent this yesterday - it was up in a doctor's in Chorlton. Clearly produced by AI and not even glanced at by real intelligence before being put up.
Surely AI would have NOT had the spelling mistake? I still laught at my cousins rendering of Chicken Kiev as Chicken Keiv (which autocorrect tried to correct)
The misspelled stegma was probably input by the user. Look more closely at what is keeping the whole ensemble off the ground.
Off thread, I was sent this yesterday - it was up in a doctor's in Chorlton. Clearly produced by AI and not even glanced at by real intelligence before being put up.
Do you meam the spelling mistakes and contradictory slogans? That's what I mean. Knocked out by AI and then not checked. (This is not unique to AI - humans have been producing badly spelt signs for decades without AI). I am at two removes from the person who took the photo, so it could be a fake.
The strangest thing was both Labour and the Tories clinging onto the London life raft.
Without London it would have been a complete catastrophe for the Tories aswell.
What it highlights is the difference in the Tory voter in the capital and elsewhere .
I had the very same thought today. The two main parties have both become “London parties” - which is a big change for the country and absolutely catastrophic for Labour and Conservative
It’s also as predicted on the timeline of David Betz, the KCL academic who thinks civil strife is heading our way
There are parallels with the 70’s right now. Britain in decline, at least that’s the accepted wisdom. An unpopular labour government. Oil shocks. And at the start of the next decade civil strife with race riots across the country. But in reality there was a route out and a female Tory had the nerve to do the hard things and launched the nation onto a more prosperous path. Whoever succeeds Starmer, be they Labour or something else, they need to put the country on a different path. Managed decline is just so seventies and so unnecessary.
We tried the Thatcher cosplay act already. It was... interesting.
Except we didn’t try it. Too many people got spooked and to be fair there was little attaempt to sell the policies properly. The plan of the first Thatcher term was to squeeze the money supply in order to squeeze the evil of inflation out of the economy. It worked but was a tough medicine. Then the unions were bested. Then she went mad. But the first two were brilliant and needed. Right now the country (the western world?) needs to get growth. At least Truss was trying something different before the orthodoxy panicked.
You can try the unothorthodox if - you are not in hock to the banks, and you have a young growing tax-paying population. We have neither. And we don't have any silver to sell anymore.
The strangest thing was both Labour and the Tories clinging onto the London life raft.
Without London it would have been a complete catastrophe for the Tories aswell.
What it highlights is the difference in the Tory voter in the capital and elsewhere .
I had the very same thought today. The two main parties have both become “London parties” - which is a big change for the country and absolutely catastrophic for Labour and Conservative
It’s also as predicted on the timeline of David Betz, the KCL academic who thinks civil strife is heading our way
There are parallels with the 70’s right now. Britain in decline, at least that’s the accepted wisdom. An unpopular labour government. Oil shocks. And at the start of the next decade civil strife with race riots across the country. But in reality there was a route out and a female Tory had the nerve to do the hard things and launched the nation onto a more prosperous path. Whoever succeeds Starmer, be they Labour or something else, they need to put the country on a different path. Managed decline is just so seventies and so unnecessary.
We tried the Thatcher cosplay act already. It was... interesting.
Except we didn’t try it. Too many people got spooked and to be fair there was little attaempt to sell the policies properly. The plan of the first Thatcher term was to squeeze the money supply in order to squeeze the evil of inflation out of the economy. It worked but was a tough medicine. Then the unions were bested. Then she went mad. But the first two were brilliant and needed. Right now the country (the western world?) needs to get growth. At least Truss was trying something different before the orthodoxy panicked.
Truss put the cart before the horse. She cut taxes to grow the economy. Thatcher did the opposite. She put up taxes (doubling VAT from 8% to 15%) and put up interest rates in order to squeeze out inflation. She later on cut taxes using the benefit of that growth, and the North Sea Oil and Privatisation windfalls. There was the small issue of the destruction of British manufacturing by an overvalued pound and mass unemployment of course.
It is not a repeatable formula, not least because the challenges to the economy and potential windfalls from privatisation are very different to the Seventies and Early Eighties.
And I think people are missing the point that am not suggesting the medicine is the same. The current orthodox seems content with budget deficits and an ever increasing national debt. Try to cut anything and the left howl about austerity. There was no austerity in the coalition years. Canadian austerity was brutal, ours was not increasing funding by as much.
Off thread, I was sent this yesterday - it was up in a doctor's in Chorlton. Clearly produced by AI and not even glanced at by real intelligence before being put up.
Surely AI would have NOT had the spelling mistake? I still laught at my cousins rendering of Chicken Kiev as Chicken Keiv (which autocorrect tried to correct)
AI's quite big on spelling mistakes. It learns from whatever material is available to it, or so I understand.
Of course Starmer is hated. Viscerally. It’s not just opposing parties saying it.
So it doesn’t matter if he does a big reshuffle and stamps his authority and launches a massive new program to give people what they want.
Remember - your policies can be popular even if they hate you. Ask Corbyn
Much of it is about his promise to be different than he is.
Such as “taking responsibility” - turns out that means “taking responsibility for firing subordinates”.
The Palestinian Action thing was stupid. Just arrest and convict people for actual crimes. Back to the absurd Blairist crackdowns on the least dangerous organisations.
Off thread, I was sent this yesterday - it was up in a doctor's in Chorlton. Clearly produced by AI and not even glanced at by real intelligence before being put up.
Surely AI would have NOT had the spelling mistake? I still laught at my cousins rendering of Chicken Kiev as Chicken Keiv (which autocorrect tried to correct)
The misspelled stegma was probably input by the user. Look more closely at what is keeping the whole ensemble off the ground.
The strangest thing was both Labour and the Tories clinging onto the London life raft.
Without London it would have been a complete catastrophe for the Tories aswell.
What it highlights is the difference in the Tory voter in the capital and elsewhere .
I had the very same thought today. The two main parties have both become “London parties” - which is a big change for the country and absolutely catastrophic for Labour and Conservative
It’s also as predicted on the timeline of David Betz, the KCL academic who thinks civil strife is heading our way
There are parallels with the 70’s right now. Britain in decline, at least that’s the accepted wisdom. An unpopular labour government. Oil shocks. And at the start of the next decade civil strife with race riots across the country. But in reality there was a route out and a female Tory had the nerve to do the hard things and launched the nation onto a more prosperous path. Whoever succeeds Starmer, be they Labour or something else, they need to put the country on a different path. Managed decline is just so seventies and so unnecessary.
We tried the Thatcher cosplay act already. It was... interesting.
Except we didn’t try it. Too many people got spooked and to be fair there was little attaempt to sell the policies properly. The plan of the first Thatcher term was to squeeze the money supply in order to squeeze the evil of inflation out of the economy. It worked but was a tough medicine. Then the unions were bested. Then she went mad. But the first two were brilliant and needed. Right now the country (the western world?) needs to get growth. At least Truss was trying something different before the orthodoxy panicked.
You can try the unothorthodox if - you are not in hock to the banks, and you have a young growing tax-paying population. We have neither. And we don't have any silver to sell anymore.
We could start by cutting the triple lock. And start taking a serious look at other funding ways for the NHS. Still free at the point of use, but maybe some insurance basics added in. And social care needs to come away from health.
The strangest thing was both Labour and the Tories clinging onto the London life raft.
Without London it would have been a complete catastrophe for the Tories aswell.
What it highlights is the difference in the Tory voter in the capital and elsewhere .
I had the very same thought today. The two main parties have both become “London parties” - which is a big change for the country and absolutely catastrophic for Labour and Conservative
It’s also as predicted on the timeline of David Betz, the KCL academic who thinks civil strife is heading our way
There are parallels with the 70’s right now. Britain in decline, at least that’s the accepted wisdom. An unpopular labour government. Oil shocks. And at the start of the next decade civil strife with race riots across the country. But in reality there was a route out and a female Tory had the nerve to do the hard things and launched the nation onto a more prosperous path. Whoever succeeds Starmer, be they Labour or something else, they need to put the country on a different path. Managed decline is just so seventies and so unnecessary.
We tried the Thatcher cosplay act already. It was... interesting.
Except we didn’t try it. Too many people got spooked and to be fair there was little attaempt to sell the policies properly. The plan of the first Thatcher term was to squeeze the money supply in order to squeeze the evil of inflation out of the economy. It worked but was a tough medicine. Then the unions were bested. Then she went mad. But the first two were brilliant and needed. Right now the country (the western world?) needs to get growth. At least Truss was trying something different before the orthodoxy panicked.
Truss put the cart before the horse. She cut taxes to grow the economy. Thatcher did the opposite. She put up taxes (doubling VAT from 8% to 15%) and put up interest rates in order to squeeze out inflation. She later on cut taxes using the benefit of that growth, and the North Sea Oil and Privatisation windfalls. There was the small issue of the destruction of British manufacturing by an overvalued pound and mass unemployment of course.
It is not a repeatable formula, not least because the challenges to the economy and potential windfalls from privatisation are very different to the Seventies and Early Eighties.
And I think people are missing the point that am not suggesting the medicine is the same. The current orthodox seems content with budget deficits and an ever increasing national debt. Try to cut anything and the left howl about austerity. There was no austerity in the coalition years. Canadian austerity was brutal, ours was not increasing funding by as much.
Off thread, I was sent this yesterday - it was up in a doctor's in Chorlton. Clearly produced by AI and not even glanced at by real intelligence before being put up.
Surely AI would have NOT had the spelling mistake? I still laught at my cousins rendering of Chicken Kiev as Chicken Keiv (which autocorrect tried to correct)
The misspelled stegma was probably input by the user. Look more closely at what is keeping the whole ensemble off the ground.
There is an obvious line being drawn which some can’t / won’t recognise. The notion that “there are two sets of rules”. That Keith gets massive abuse even now for freebiegate and Farage just bats away all his late and missing donations - especially the £5m. And if you’re a candidate for not Reform God help you if you ever said anything bad. Reform? A literal Nazi or wife beater or worse? Nobody cares.
This is the fascinating development. Voters who have had enough of the system have decided that electing scum isn’t a problem as long as it’s their scum because the mainstream party candidates are also scum.
One of the Reform councillors just elected has turned out to be a Holocaust denier and has been sacked. Meanwhile a Green councillor elected in Lambeth and arrested for possible incitement to racial hatred - the Green Party has done nothing.
Some of us do care about this stuff but too many voters, including some on here are perfectly fine with culture war issues so long as they are the ones they support.
It's two, not one:
.. the women are understood to be Saiqa Ali, a Lambeth Green candidate for Streatham St Leonard’s ward, and Sabine Mairey, who was standing in Lambeth’s Clapham Town.
The Met said in a statement: “Police have arrested two women, aged 57 and 54, on suspicion of stirring up racial hatred online, an offence under section 19 of the Public Order Act 1986. They remain in police custody.
“The arrests follow an investigation launched after concerns were reported to police on Tuesday 21 April about antisemitic material that had been posted online.”
Ali’s Instagram account is set to private but screenshots indicated she had posted an image of an armed man wearing a headband of the banned Islamist group Hamas along with the slogan: “Resistance is freedom”.
There is an obvious line being drawn which some can’t / won’t recognise. The notion that “there are two sets of rules”. That Keith gets massive abuse even now for freebiegate and Farage just bats away all his late and missing donations - especially the £5m. And if you’re a candidate for not Reform God help you if you ever said anything bad. Reform? A literal Nazi or wife beater or worse? Nobody cares.
This is the fascinating development. Voters who have had enough of the system have decided that electing scum isn’t a problem as long as it’s their scum because the mainstream party candidates are also scum.
One of the Reform councillors just elected has turned out to be a Holocaust denier and has been sacked. Meanwhile a Green councillor elected in Lambeth and arrested for possible incitement to racial hatred - the Green Party has done nothing.
Some of us do care about this stuff but too many voters, including some on here are perfectly fine with culture war issues so long as they are the ones they support.
It's two, not one:
.. the women are understood to be Saiqa Ali, a Lambeth Green candidate for Streatham St Leonard’s ward, and Sabine Mairey, who was standing in Lambeth’s Clapham Town.
The Met said in a statement: “Police have arrested two women, aged 57 and 54, on suspicion of stirring up racial hatred online, an offence under section 19 of the Public Order Act 1986. They remain in police custody.
“The arrests follow an investigation launched after concerns were reported to police on Tuesday 21 April about antisemitic material that had been posted online.”
Ali’s Instagram account is set to private but screenshots indicated she had posted an image of an armed man wearing a headband of the banned Islamist group Hamas along with the slogan: “Resistance is freedom”.
The strangest thing was both Labour and the Tories clinging onto the London life raft.
Without London it would have been a complete catastrophe for the Tories aswell.
What it highlights is the difference in the Tory voter in the capital and elsewhere .
I had the very same thought today. The two main parties have both become “London parties” - which is a big change for the country and absolutely catastrophic for Labour and Conservative
It’s also as predicted on the timeline of David Betz, the KCL academic who thinks civil strife is heading our way
It's largely the result of the disparity in economic outcomes (and investment) between London and the regions, which has been steadily growing, unaddressed by government, for decades now.
The protest vote for Reform, even if they were to obtain an unlikely majority at the next election, would almost certainly do nothing to address that.
Starmers best selling point pre GE was dull competency , leaving behind the Tory psychodramas .
I think the irritation amongst a section of the public is he delivered dull incompetency. He was never really liked but tolerated as a means to remove the Tories .
Personally I don’t get the level of hatred aimed towards him . It seems to be off the scale .
Nor do I. It's highly contrived. Not being very good should earn you indifference, even disdain, but hatred?
It’s absolutely not contrived. Because I feel it deep in me. An almost psychotic loathing and contempt. It’s a mix of many things - from his obvious treachery to his whining voice to his pathetic grasping greed - and it produces something toxic in his enemies (the British people)
Irrational? Perhaps. Overdone? Maybe. Contrived? No
And, for the record, and as I’ve said, I have centre left friends, who have exactly the same furious disdain, but for different reasons - eg they’re not at all angry about Chagos but they’re angry about his “island of strangers” speech, or his cowardice as a leader
Starmer is that van driver that offers you a knock off organic cotton duvet and leaves you with a polyester pile of shite.
The embarrassment of the cheapskate and conned drives our anger
There is no 'sugar coating' this seems to be the official speak for labour mps
Wales ejected labour from the Senedd in a long forecasted result, but to her great credit Eluned Morgan made a gracious resignation speech accepting she had failed to prevent the devastating result
Compare and contrast that to Starmer who blames everyone else or it didn't pass his desk
I do not like hate being used towards Starmer, and certainly I do not hate him but just despair at how inept and unsuited he is and if labour allow him to continue they are looking at an existential crisis for their movement
As for Kemi she is not going to be challenged, and whilst yesterday was poor for the consevatives, she has started the process of recovery and she has 3 years to complete the task
I would really like to see a head to head between her and Farage as I expect she would show him up for what he is
Interesting that yesterday and in today's mail Boris has firmly rowed in behind Kemi, which may well trigger some
We are in different politics now and it is very interesting
In the meantime I wish Rhun well as our new Plaid First Minister and note that 1 labour and 1 conservative are likely to be Presiding and Deputy Presiding Officers
Starmers best selling point pre GE was dull competency , leaving behind the Tory psychodramas .
I think the irritation amongst a section of the public is he delivered dull incompetency. He was never really liked but tolerated as a means to remove the Tories .
Personally I don’t get the level of hatred aimed towards him . It seems to be off the scale .
Nor do I. It's highly contrived. Not being very good should earn you indifference, even disdain, but hatred?
It’s absolutely not contrived. Because I feel it deep in me. An almost psychotic loathing and contempt. It’s a mix of many things - from his obvious treachery to his whining voice to his pathetic grasping greed - and it produces something toxic in his enemies (the British people)
Irrational? Perhaps. Overdone? Maybe. Contrived? No
And, for the record, and as I’ve said, I have centre left friends, who have exactly the same furious disdain, but for different reasons - eg they’re not at all angry about Chagos but they’re angry about his “island of strangers” speech, or his cowardice as a leader
Yes, it isn't contrived with you, Leon, I agree. But much of it is, particularly with the right wing press and also with those who hate Labour because they hate Labour. They simply don't have a casus belli, so the hate is contrived.
Streeting backing Starmer in media pool interview.....nobody is going to go over the top.are they.
The Thatcher Cabinet backed her right up to the point when they didn't.
Yes but thats the Tories who never stop plotting to oust their leader and their system makes it much easier.
I suspect you are wrong this time. He's gone, Johnson style by conference. Bookmark here.
Due to Starmer's travails does Badenoch fly under the radar? In any other circumstances she would have had a shocker of a day.
Her danger is next year, its the shires up for election. If they shit the bed, then all the we are turning it around narrative will be dead in the water.
It's not very convincing right now tbh. We're losing 40% of our seats as opposed to 60% last year. It's progress. Of sorts. But pretty soon you'll have no base to build on whatsoever. The Tories may be clinging to decent results in some well to do places, but they are becoming utterly extinct in increasingly large areas of the country. The Labour Party results are cataclysmic. But we know the reason why. The least popular PM in history. But the Tories are pulling this off with the least unpopular Party leader. That's some achievement.
I agree they are still in massive trouble. I dont know who is their base nowadays.
There is an obvious line being drawn which some can’t / won’t recognise. The notion that “there are two sets of rules”. That Keith gets massive abuse even now for freebiegate and Farage just bats away all his late and missing donations - especially the £5m. And if you’re a candidate for not Reform God help you if you ever said anything bad. Reform? A literal Nazi or wife beater or worse? Nobody cares.
This is the fascinating development. Voters who have had enough of the system have decided that electing scum isn’t a problem as long as it’s their scum because the mainstream party candidates are also scum.
One of the Reform councillors just elected has turned out to be a Holocaust denier and has been sacked. Meanwhile a Green councillor elected in Lambeth and arrested for possible incitement to racial hatred - the Green Party has done nothing.
Some of us do care about this stuff but too many voters, including some on here are perfectly fine with culture war issues so long as they are the ones they support.
Going to be plenty more...
Saiqa Ali has just been elected in Lambeth. Ali’s Instagram: a picture of the Earth suffocated by a giant serpent with the Star of David on its skin. She thinks that the British government includes too many ‘Zionists Jews’, and that Trump is ‘owned by Jews’
Comments
Keir Starmer's policies do us harm. If he were quietly getting on with doing things that genuinely allowed our economy to thrive a little more, if he were negotiating with other world leaders determined to get the best deal for the UK, if he were to prioritise genuinely inexpensive energy (not energy that merely says it's cheap but costs more each year), and if he did whatever it took to reduce crime and illegal immigration, he would be a legend. Everyone is obsessed by him not being a Mark Carney figure, so he could put a better spin on the shit sandwich he's serving up. That might help temporarily, but by now people would still have his number. The issue is the sausage not the sizzle.
NEW THREAD
Embarrassed at being from the regions and their parochial upbringing.
The second most effective, used by Reform in this campaign, was Get Starmer Out - it worked a treat.
The only consolation for us lefties is that the focus was, quite deliberately on Starmer, rather than Get Labour Out.
My side needs to up it's sloganising game - all we have is pathetic stuff like 'Change'.
Such as “taking responsibility” - turns out that means “taking responsibility for firing subordinates”.
The Palestinian Action thing was stupid. Just arrest and convict people for actual crimes. Back to the absurd Blairist crackdowns on the least dangerous organisations.
.. the women are understood to be Saiqa Ali, a Lambeth Green candidate for Streatham St Leonard’s ward, and Sabine Mairey, who was standing in Lambeth’s Clapham Town.
The Met said in a statement: “Police have arrested two women, aged 57 and 54, on suspicion of stirring up racial hatred online, an offence under section 19 of the Public Order Act 1986. They remain in police custody.
“The arrests follow an investigation launched after concerns were reported to police on Tuesday 21 April about antisemitic material that had been posted online.”
Ali’s Instagram account is set to private but screenshots indicated she had posted an image of an armed man wearing a headband of the banned Islamist group Hamas along with the slogan: “Resistance is freedom”.
Another screenshot indicated that Mairey had shared a post which included the text: “Ramming a synagogue isn’t antisemitism. It’s revenge.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/apr/30/met-police-arrest-two-green-election-candidates-over-alleged-antisemitism
Has Polanski said anything? He needs to if they are charged - or politically it is handing a card to his opponents.
Some people will be along to assure us that “it’s media bubble nonsense”, “a hit job”, “a joke taken out of context”, “understandable angry words”
Unlike the Them’uns. Who are evil.
The protest vote for Reform, even if they were to obtain an unlikely majority at the next election, would almost certainly do nothing to address that.
The embarrassment of the cheapskate and conned drives our anger
There is no 'sugar coating' this seems to be the official speak for labour mps
Wales ejected labour from the Senedd in a long forecasted result, but to her great credit Eluned Morgan made a gracious resignation speech accepting she had failed to prevent the devastating result
Compare and contrast that to Starmer who blames everyone else or it didn't pass his desk
I do not like hate being used towards Starmer, and certainly I do not hate him but just despair at how inept and unsuited he is and if labour allow him to continue they are looking at an existential crisis for their movement
As for Kemi she is not going to be challenged, and whilst yesterday was poor for the consevatives, she has started the process of recovery and she has 3 years to complete the task
I would really like to see a head to head between her and Farage as I expect she would show him up for what he is
Interesting that yesterday and in today's mail Boris has firmly rowed in behind Kemi, which may well trigger some
We are in different politics now and it is very interesting
In the meantime I wish Rhun well as our new Plaid First Minister and note that 1 labour and 1 conservative are likely to be Presiding and Deputy Presiding Officers