Skip to content

Mayday! A grim night for Labour and the Tories – politicalbetting.com

123457»

Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,278

    Depressing that some pink headed loon has taken the mayoralty in Hackney.

    Pretty convincing win.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 8,015
    edited May 8
    LD 70% in Orkney (up 8%)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,344
    Is Labour lucky that some of it's stronger London boroughs reported relatively quickly ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,764
    First declarations in Sheffield delayed by high turnout

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx218nk9w0kt
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,314
    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    That’s…. unexpected?!
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning

    Then we need an election. What a waste.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    HYUFD said:

    Reform have won an overall majority on Essex county council with 39 seats to 8 for the Tories, 3 for the LDs, 2 for the Independents and 1 for the Greens and RA

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2026/england/councils/E10000012

    HUZZAH
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 847
    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    Fairly thumping win. Lib Dems are doing well in all their Scottish seats outside of Shetland
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,319
    edited May 8
    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    Big swing to Lib Dems. Liam McArthur was the prime mover of the assisted dying debate, and is very well thought of. He is possibly the next Presiding Officer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    That’s…. unexpected?!
    LD hold not, the size of the swing from the SNP though unexpected. Not a good omen for Swinney and his hopes of a majority, if that anti SNP swing is replicated elsewhere in Scotland the SNP will lose seats
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,604

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    While we wait for more results here’s something cool (or I think it’s cool)

    I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present

    To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel

    Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000

    The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom

    Cost? £65

    Are you sure that modern humans have in fact reached all parts of the United Kingdom?
    I know they haven't, I've been to Paisley.
    The home of Andrew Neil?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,278
    I suspect if Lab cling onto Starmer then we will have a "Did You F*cking Not Hear Us the First Time" election in a year or two.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    All of England is going Reform, apart from a small leafy beauteous pocket of north London by Primrose Hill

    Which is kind of ironic
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,520
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    That’s…. unexpected?!
    It is certainly a very good result for the Lib Dems... Liam could hardly be a better MSP though.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,136

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning

    Typical Labour Party cop-out incoming…
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,319
    DoctorG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    Fairly thumping win. Lib Dems are doing well in all their Scottish seats outside of Shetland
    The Shetland Lib Dem candidate is an unpopular council leader.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,432
    edited May 8
    Pro_Rata said:

    carnforth said:

    What sign of the Gaza Independents? All independents currently 20 (-16). A damb squib or the likely areas are yet to be counted?

    I don't know if we've had many. I noted early doors that Labour's sole 2022 hold in Tameside, St. Peter's (effectively Ashton St. Peter's but not named so as I think it creeps over the town boundary into the Guide Bridge bit of Audenshaw) was actually won by a Gaza Independent in 2024, so Labour managed about a 5% swing against the Independent in those two years.
    Looked at Oldham at wards where the Gaza Independents won in 2024. A small swing, sub 5% typically, from Gaza back to Labour is pretty consistently seen, we'll get more data points from Blackburn and West Yorkshire today, but I'd say similar is likely.

    EDIT again: rise of Reform covers in some places, but it not just a proportional contraction of vote share, Labour numbers do hold up slightly better.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,344
    edited May 8

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning

    Typical Labour Party cop-out incoming…
    It's the hold up in London that's saved him, killed the momentum. Hammersmith man has saved Starmer !
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 847
    edited May 8
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    That’s…. unexpected?!
    LD hold not, the size of the swing from the SNP though unexpected. Not a good omen for Swinney and his hopes of a majority, if that anti SNP swing is replicated elsewhere in Scotland the SNP will lose seats
    It's a mixed bag though. If the SNP nab Eastwood, and hold off Labour in East Lothian, they'll be down but maybe only by 6 or 7 seats, maybe even fewer

    Very unlikely for the SNP to get a majority now
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,764

    NEW THREAD

  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning

    My god they are pathetic. It just takes one person with cullions. They utterly deserve the terrible defeat that is coming as they persist with Skyr. Even as he leads the country to utter destruction and lawless despair

    Mind you I am weirdly taken by the phrase “mammoth ring round” so it’s swings and roundabouts
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,278
    Leon said:

    All of England is going Reform, apart from a small leafy beauteous pocket of north London by Primrose Hill

    Which is kind of ironic

    Feeling left out?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,534
    Leon said:

    All of England is going Reform, apart from a small leafy beauteous pocket of north London by Primrose Hill

    Which is kind of ironic

    No because you like living there and although you seem to be a big fan of Reform you don’t like living amongst the ill fitting leggings brigade and chavs maurading down the streets with their double child buggies !

    You’re a metropolitan elite Reform snob !
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,229
    Foulkesy doing his inevitable there are no tanks in Baghdad tribute act.

    Dear @HackneyAbbott
    In spite of your wishful thinking the results are NOT very bad for Labour.

    https://x.com/georgefoulkes/status/2052701120254886202?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,229
    edited May 8
    Duplicate
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,605
    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    Indeed - play the long game only, and that doesn't seem to work anymore. Absent a collapse in polling will people in 2029 be spooked back home rather than risk 'wasting' a vote for Reform?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,520
    Leon said:

    All of England is going Reform, apart from a small leafy beauteous pocket of north London by Primrose Hill

    Which is kind of ironic

    Chalk Farm always goes its own way.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,040
    edited May 8
    Leon said:

    All of England is going Reform, apart from a small leafy beauteous pocket of north London by Primrose Hill

    Which is kind of ironic

    They will be building a refugee camp in Camden for Gin-soaked Popinjays to escape Reformistan.

    Passport to Primrose Hill, with Polly Toynbee doing the entry interrogations, and the customs inspections on exiting loads of smashed avocado.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,344
    Con hold Highters Heath in Brum
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,317

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning

    He knows he can't stay in place for the GE. He doesn't want to go now. His rivals aren't ready to take over now.

    It seems pretty obvious to me that the betting market has it very wrong and he will leave in 2027.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,605

    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Wasn’t an issue for Labour in 2011 and the Tories in 1998.
    2011 is a bad example, as it was the days of three party politics and two of them were in coalition; Labour benefitted from being the only party not in government that had any airtime.

    This time, Reform and the Greens were coming off the back of a decent GE, so were obviously the NOTAs. The surprise for me is how the Lib Dem’s haven’t prospered, given an unpopular Labour govt and a wounded Tory party who’ve just been thrown out
    So why did the Tories make net gains in 1998?
    Normally HM opposition would expect to make significant gains. A necessary basecamp before the subsequent GE. It’s unusual for them to go backwards.
    Indeed, the abuse I get for pointing that out is weird.
    On their terrible expectations they've met those expectations. It really could be worse.

    But that's not really much comfort.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 847

    DoctorG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    Fairly thumping win. Lib Dems are doing well in all their Scottish seats outside of Shetland
    The Shetland Lib Dem candidate is an unpopular council leader.
    From what I've seen the SNP candidate seems fairly popular. If its a narrow SNP win, that's on the Lib Dems for a poor selection. Personality is everything on the islands
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,605

    The one thing Reform does not seem to be is a “national” party Mr Farage.

    Who is, thesedays?

    The Tories at least stand everywhere, even NI sometimes.
  • MattW said:

    Not a rabbit hole I'm pursuing, but as per usual it's probably the speed difference - between moving at 8-12mph and 25-40mph.

    Mopeds are legally limited to 28mph, and have so little power even a small incline will halve that. A cyclist going down a hill will easily out-run a moped.

    It would be nice if one country decided to require approved helmets for cyclists, it would provide useful data.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    Leon said:

    All of England is going Reform, apart from a small leafy beauteous pocket of north London by Primrose Hill

    Which is kind of ironic

    Not all Harlow, Fareham, Broxbourne stayed blue, the Tories won most seats in Hampshire and Labour have held a few areas like Wigan and Salford and Reading and the LDs have won Stockport and Eastleigh.

    Reform not breaking through for even most seats anywhere in London so far though except Havering
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,551
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    All of England is going Reform, apart from a small leafy beauteous pocket of north London by Primrose Hill

    Which is kind of ironic

    Not all Harlow, Fareham, Broxbourne stayed blue, the Tories won most seats in Hampshire and Labour have held a few areas like Wigan and Salford and Reading and the LDs have won Stockport and Eastleigh.

    Reform not breaking through for even most seats anywhere in London so far though except Havering
    Lab got clobbered in Wigan and Salford but they elect by thirds
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,354
    HYUFD said:

    Orkney first Holyrood constituency declaration. LD hold but a massive 10.5% swing from SNP to LD since 2021

    LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199

    Oil & Gas factor? Also, RefCon share not significantly advancing and way behind 2021 regional share
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,605
    MikeL said:

    LD 70% in Orkney (up 8%)

    They love a liberal up there. Bar a 15 year period across WW2 i think it's been libs and predecessors for about 150 years for MP.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    edited May 8
    Jacob Rees Mogg on BBC says 'you haven't got in Essex dripping wet Tory MPs, the national party flirting with Lib Demmery cost them there' but he says Kemi is sound
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,605

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning

    He knows he can't stay in place for the GE. He doesn't want to go now. His rivals aren't ready to take over now.

    It seems pretty obvious to me that the betting market has it very wrong and he will leave in 2027.
    PM 2024-2027 looks much better than 2024-2026
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,605

    Foulkesy doing his inevitable there are no tanks in Baghdad tribute act.

    Dear @HackneyAbbott
    In spite of your wishful thinking the results are NOT very bad for Labour.

    https://x.com/georgefoulkes/status/2052701120254886202?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Strong statement!
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,927
    kle4 said:

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2052705525003915403

    Talk of a Cabinet revolt telling Keir Starmer to quit is dead.

    That's the vibe of my mammoth ring round this morning

    He knows he can't stay in place for the GE. He doesn't want to go now. His rivals aren't ready to take over now.

    It seems pretty obvious to me that the betting market has it very wrong and he will leave in 2027.
    PM 2024-2027 looks much better than 2024-2026
    Next year they'll be a little voice in the back of his head saying that PM 2024-2028 looks even better. And then, somehow, he'll end up fighting the next election...
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,637

    Greens win all 3 seats in Byker (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    As expected.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,637
    Cookie said:

    BBC is going reform

    In what sense?
    Greens won Salford Quays ward (home of BBC) with Reform last. So I suspect that is not the sense that you mean.
    Probably the usual PB nonsense that the BBC is a Reform propagandist.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,637

    Depressing that some pink headed loon has taken the mayoralty in Hackney.

    Today Hackney

    Tomorrow Gaza.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,438

    Depressing that some pink headed loon has taken the mayoralty in Hackney.

    Why? Hackney was always a home of the Loony Tunes Left. Added to the vibrancy of London, really.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,798
    edited May 8
    Things not going well for Labour in Manchester. In the seats being contested, they are currently third with 2, after Ref and Grn (3 each). I didn't expect Reform to be winning seats in Manchester.
    They've also lost Burnage (which is Bev Craig's seat - the council leader and mooted successor to Andy Burnham - though she is not up for election this time) to the Greens.

    EDIT - two more Green gains from Labour in Manchester - Lab have now lost seven of the nine declared seats they were defending.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,086

    Depressing that some pink headed loon has taken the mayoralty in Hackney.

    Why? Hackney was always a home of the Loony Tunes Left. Added to the vibrancy of London, really.
    For the past 20 years it’s been run by technocratically competent soft-leftists. You’re thinking of the 1980s.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 2,119
    In my view Starmer is viscerally hated because of what happened before him and how little has actually changed from what came before.

    By the time the Tories left office the average voter was pretty disgusted with them. Starmer was the alternative, and promised change. Many people voted for him on that basis, rather than with any enthusiasm, most probably with echoes of Blair's bold project in their minds. Few will have realised that the 2020s economy is very, very different from the late 90s one.

    Starmer has been so limp, unappealing and slopey-shouldered in office that the hopes people placed in him for change and renewal leave a bitter, bitter taste in the mouth.

    Changing leaders will, in my view, make this bitter taste worse rather than better, as it will make Labour seem even more Tory-lite in their incompetence.

    The logical end point is that Reform win the next election. At which point they'll be the target of the same ire.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,419
    Cookie said:

    Things not going well for Labour in Manchester. In the seats being contested, they are currently third with 2, after Ref and Grn (3 each). I didn't expect Reform to be winning seats in Manchester.
    They've also lost Burnage (which is Bev Craig's seat - the council leader and mooted successor to Andy Burnham - though she is not up for election this time) to the Greens.

    EDIT - two more Green gains from Labour in Manchester - Lab have now lost seven of the nine declared seats they were defending.

    Bandy Urnham fans please explain!!!
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 823
    From a local journalist at the count:

    An unexpected update from the Worthing and Adur count… people have been advised to stay in the building due to a swarm of thousands of bees near the entrance
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,370

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Fishing said:

    Anecdote alert - irrelevant to the local elections.

    A friend is (improbably) a prince in the UAE (they have hundreds of princes in their seven royal families so it's less of a big deal than it would be here).

    He has just decided to move with his numerous children in their "PJ" [private jet] to London to avoid the war and concentrate on managing their wealth in Europe and the States.

    So it's not just expats and tourists who are affected by Trump's terrible decisions ...

    Interesting anecdote.

    Dare I say that for everyone moving from UAE to UK to ‘manage’ their wealth, there’s a few more moving in the opposite direction with the intention of creating wealth.

    London is a pretty good place to be if you have a lot of international wealth and little income, to be fair.
    London is a pretty good place to be, full stop. The sun is shining, there is an abundance of trees and greenery all around, everyone is busy about their business, from the white van man up early to the woke dad with his two little uns on the back of his bike on the way to the excellent local primary school.
    That's poor weight distribution, smallest on the front, larger one on the back. Once the smaller one is >15kgs you're looking at a tandem or cargo bike.
    Cargo bikes for kids are generally a sign of well off, middle or upper class people. They tend to be expensive and work best when you live close to good schools.

    Driving a "Chelsea Tractor" on the school run s seen as a bit chavy
    Aren’t the cargo bikes like £5k? My car cost me less than that.
    The absolute cheapest new Range Rover is about £42k.

    My second hand Volkswagen Polo was £12k. £5k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
    My brand new Suzuki Swift set me back less than £13k just a couple of years ago. You can get second hand vehicles for considerably less than that.

    £5k for most families is a hell of a lot of money.

    Especially if you already have/need a vehicle then £5k for an additional form of transport is a luxury many can't afford.
    A lot of families in London wont have a car in addition to a “cargo bike”. I don’t dispute that £5k is a hell of a lot of money but let’s not pretend it’s the height of luxury. Farage’s pals hand him £5m like it’s nothing.

    By the way, the list price for a 2024 Suzuki Swift is over £19k.

    PB is so out of touch
    "List price"

    Anyone who pays list price has been seen coming a mile off or has more money then sense.

    When I bought my car the list price was over £17k. I paid under 13k. New vehicle.

    I shopped around for ages looking for the cheapest vehicle, found one dealer elsewhere in the country offering the vehicle for that price. I called my local dealer and booked an appointment, leaving my contact details. Came in for the appointment, I mentioned the price I had seen online and they said they were unable to match it. I thanked them for their time and walked out and walked away.

    I got half-way down the road before my phone rang and they said they'd had another look and could make it work. New vehicle for over £4k under list price.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,530

    From a local journalist at the count:

    An unexpected update from the Worthing and Adur count… people have been advised to stay in the building due to a swarm of thousands of bees near the entrance

    Things are buzzing down there!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,040
    Zoe Garbutt as Mayor of Hackney will be an interesting one.

    Her local policies come across as "Green sensible", but her internationist ones, of internationalism linked ones, come across as a little more "Green bonkers", imo. If the Greens scrape control of the Borough itself, there will be interesting times in Hackney. Vincent Stops will not be impressed.

    It seems that K&C will remain a segment of 1970s London embedded in the 2020s. For anyone using mobility infrastructure crossing a border into K&C is like entering a black hole in the midst of London.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,040
    edited May 8

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Fishing said:

    Anecdote alert - irrelevant to the local elections.

    A friend is (improbably) a prince in the UAE (they have hundreds of princes in their seven royal families so it's less of a big deal than it would be here).

    He has just decided to move with his numerous children in their "PJ" [private jet] to London to avoid the war and concentrate on managing their wealth in Europe and the States.

    So it's not just expats and tourists who are affected by Trump's terrible decisions ...

    Interesting anecdote.

    Dare I say that for everyone moving from UAE to UK to ‘manage’ their wealth, there’s a few more moving in the opposite direction with the intention of creating wealth.

    London is a pretty good place to be if you have a lot of international wealth and little income, to be fair.
    London is a pretty good place to be, full stop. The sun is shining, there is an abundance of trees and greenery all around, everyone is busy about their business, from the white van man up early to the woke dad with his two little uns on the back of his bike on the way to the excellent local primary school.
    That's poor weight distribution, smallest on the front, larger one on the back. Once the smaller one is >15kgs you're looking at a tandem or cargo bike.
    Cargo bikes for kids are generally a sign of well off, middle or upper class people. They tend to be expensive and work best when you live close to good schools.

    Driving a "Chelsea Tractor" on the school run s seen as a bit chavy
    Aren’t the cargo bikes like £5k? My car cost me less than that.
    The absolute cheapest new Range Rover is about £42k.

    My second hand Volkswagen Polo was £12k. £5k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
    My brand new Suzuki Swift set me back less than £13k just a couple of years ago. You can get second hand vehicles for considerably less than that.

    £5k for most families is a hell of a lot of money.

    Especially if you already have/need a vehicle then £5k for an additional form of transport is a luxury many can't afford.
    A lot of families in London wont have a car in addition to a “cargo bike”. I don’t dispute that £5k is a hell of a lot of money but let’s not pretend it’s the height of luxury. Farage’s pals hand him £5m like it’s nothing.

    By the way, the list price for a 2024 Suzuki Swift is over £19k.

    PB is so out of touch
    "List price"

    Anyone who pays list price has been seen coming a mile off or has more money then sense.

    When I bought my car the list price was over £17k. I paid under 13k. New vehicle.

    I shopped around for ages looking for the cheapest vehicle, found one dealer elsewhere in the country offering the vehicle for that price. I called my local dealer and booked an appointment, leaving my contact details. Came in for the appointment, I mentioned the price I had seen online and they said they were unable to match it. I thanked them for their time and walked out and walked away.

    I got half-way down the road before my phone rang and they said they'd had another look and could make it work. New vehicle for over £4k under list price.
    My experience was the same as Bart, albeit at a slightly higher price level.

    However, to return to London, car ownership in London has been in absolute decline since about 2015-6. In toto it is just under 3% lower, despite a population increasing by 5%. There are more stats here:

    https://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-2024-car-ownership-trends-acc.pdf
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,040
    So where are we on an overall summary?

    Compared to predictions, I make all the swings between parties about 10% less than expected, with LDs doing as expected.

    Gainers are as forecast: Ref UK a LOT, Lab badly down, Con quite badly down, Green well up, LD up.

    Personal expectation: the Ref UK defenestration rate will double, and the Ref UK self-destruct horizon will come closer as more people are exposed to having their community run by knee-jerk. I'm not clear what will happen to the saner / more competent end of Reform Councils.

    Here in Ashfield, we are up for re-election in 2027, but the Ashfield Independents are probably a bigger feature for then, with their leader up before the Crown Court.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,040

    MattW said:

    Not a rabbit hole I'm pursuing, but as per usual it's probably the speed difference - between moving at 8-12mph and 25-40mph.

    Mopeds are legally limited to 28mph, and have so little power even a small incline will halve that. A cyclist going down a hill will easily out-run a moped.

    It would be nice if one country decided to require approved helmets for cyclists, it would provide useful data.
    On the data, we already have more than 25 years of data from Australia and New Zealand which has such a law since 1990, which is not conclusive, except that police use it for easy hits and the number of people cycling went down significantly. It is inconclusive on safety, and the law was was more the result of an emotion and media driven campaign in the 1980s.

    On mopeds it's a little technical. There is also a category known as a High Power Mopeds with larger engines and higher speeds. Plus there are vehicles such as Sur-Rons, which are mopeds (or sometimes technically) motorcycles and often called "bikes" and used by delivery riders, but since the e-assist works at 25kph+ they already require moped safety gear. They normally do 40-50mph.

    Plus we would normally regulate for the 98% not the 2%, and enforce on the 2% if necessary, especially when there is little evidence.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623
    edited May 8
    Deleted
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,998
    edited May 8
    Lib Dem barchart to end all Lib Dem barcharts. Emphatically "winning here" in Richmond upon Thames




This discussion has been closed.