There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Though long before the Israeli elections, we will get to the point where the mainstream attitude to the Epstein files will be "are they on paper? can we burn them for fuel?"
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Flailing is how the US looks, kindova giant, lardy heavyweight (Tyson Fury?) v smaller, nimbler opponent (Usyk?). If the former connects with his massive punch match over, but he’s tiring and not thinking straight.
I assume that there’s some satisfaction in Tehran that they can put the nuclear on the back burner now they’v discovered the ultimate deterrent, control of the Straits of Hormuz.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
Cuba? Greenland? The destruction of Nato as he pulls troops out of Germany (and presumably gives up leases on bases if this is as ill-thought through as everything else)?
We just have to send the message these bases and facilities are mothballed - until a President who is serious about protecting democracy around the globe is elected in due course.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Flailing is how the US looks, kindova giant, lardy heavyweight (Tyson Fury?) v smaller, nimbler opponent (Usyk?). If the former connects with his massive punch match over, but he’s tiring and not thinking straight.
I assume that there’s some satisfaction in Tehran that they can put the nuclear on the back burner now they’v discovered the ultimate deterrent, control of the Straits of Hormuz.
If Iran has any sense, which is doubtful, it will offer to sell its enriched uranium to America in exchange for reparations and rebuilding its demolished girls schools and other infrastructure.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Four points:
1 - The location thing is juvenile and revealing, and smacks of a deliberate knee jerk. I'm not sure if that will be a political net plus.
2 - I thought that they had been noisily complaining about use of "camps" (eg the demonstrations at the former RAF bases). Said demonstrations then moved on to Jenrick's "migrant hotels" then to "migrant HMOs". Interpretation: the point is the opportunity to complain for attention, rather than fix the problem.
3 - Zia Yusuf lays out that the "camps" will be used to "hold them for a couple of weeks until deportation". Has he explained how he is going to enfoirce deportations within a couple of weeks, both from a "legal" point of view, and a "persuading countries (if they can be identified) to accept them back point of views?
4 - If they are not concentration camps, they will turn into them when the demanded timescale is shown to be a fantasy - just as has happened for Trump's camps run by ICE. I think that these camps, and the people who have died in them, will come back to haunt Trump and his senior ministers should the USA surviveve as a constitutional democracy.
All good points but I think we're giving Reform too much credit for a thought out, if wicked, policy.
Basically this is step 2 in a focus group driven campaign point
Step 1 Focus group; Do something about all those illegal immigrants. Reform: We will abrogate all human rights and planning laws so our government can arbitrarily set up detention centres wherever we want.
Step 2 Focus group: But I don't want these centres anywhere near me and now you tell me I can't do anything to stop it. Reform: Thanks to our new arbitrary powers we commit to putting these centres away from anyone who voted for them
Rupert Lowe is not a fan:-
Where should illegal migrant detention centres should be located?
Reform want to vindictively target Brits in potential Green constituencies to make a point and house illegals next to them - that is their choice. But I don't believe that we have time for this petty nonsense. https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/2051196933167792437
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Flailing is how the US looks, kindova giant, lardy heavyweight (Tyson Fury?) v smaller, nimbler opponent (Usyk?). If the former connects with his massive punch match over, but he’s tiring and not thinking straight.
I assume that there’s some satisfaction in Tehran that they can put the nuclear on the back burner now they’v discovered the ultimate deterrent, control of the Straits of Hormuz.
If Iran has any sense, which is doubtful, it will offer to sell its enriched uranium to America in exchange for reparations and rebuilding its demolished girls schools and other infrastructure.
Well they’re current blockading the UAE terminal that circumvents Hormuz.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
Cuba? Greenland? The destruction of Nato as he pulls troops out of Germany (and presumably gives up leases on bases if this is as ill-thought through as everything else)?
We just have to send the message these bases and facilities are mothballed - until a President who is serious about protecting democracy around the globe is elected in due course.
And NATO is going nowhere.
Do you mean it’s not going away, or that it’s reached the end of the road?
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Flailing is how the US looks, kindova giant, lardy heavyweight (Tyson Fury?) v smaller, nimbler opponent (Usyk?). If the former connects with his massive punch match over, but he’s tiring and not thinking straight.
I assume that there’s some satisfaction in Tehran that they can put the nuclear on the back burner now they’v discovered the ultimate deterrent, control of the Straits of Hormuz.
If Iran has any sense, which is doubtful, it will offer to sell its enriched uranium to America in exchange for reparations and rebuilding its demolished girls schools and other infrastructure.
I don't think they're short of sense. Without anyone really knowing who their leader is there are few countries who don't believe they're running rings round Trump and his cabal.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
Cuba? Greenland? The destruction of Nato as he pulls troops out of Germany (and presumably gives up leases on bases if this is as ill-thought through as everything else)?
We just have to send the message these bases and facilities are mothballed - until a President who is serious about protecting democracy around the globe is elected in due course.
And NATO is going nowhere.
Do you mean it’s not going away, or that it’s reached the end of the road?
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
Why is it absurd? Most concentation camps didn't involve gas chambers either.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Let's see, they've not been built yet. Personally I like to get ahead of things and form opinions based on where we are heading, not where we are right now. This probably comes from working in financial markets. Reform is trying to take us somewhere pretty dark IMHO. I'm not going to sit around and wait until my family is rounded up and put in one of these definitely not concentration camps before I raise any objections.
ICE literally have picked up people on the street and interred them based only on them having an accent or being brown. Reform say they want a British ICE. They get let go eventually once they’ve proven their citizenship.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
Cuba? Greenland? The destruction of Nato as he pulls troops out of Germany (and presumably gives up leases on bases if this is as ill-thought through as everything else)?
We just have to send the message these bases and facilities are mothballed - until a President who is serious about protecting democracy around the globe is elected in due course.
And NATO is going nowhere.
Do you mean it’s not going away, or that it’s reached the end of the road?
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
Why is it absurd? Most concentation camps didn't involve gas chambers either.
The Brits started "concentration camps" in the second Boer War. Not exactly anything to be proud of...
NEW: Labour MPs are calling for end to “endless drama” of leadership speculation, with some warning that repeated briefings about toppling Keir Starmer are putting off voters, @peterwalker99 reports.
“All people want is a government which works, and not the endless drama. We are in a very tricky global situation, and to have this never-ending conversation about who might have a certain number of supporters feels extremely self-indulgent,” says one MP.
Well, quite.
There is an election campaign. I would want fellow members of my political party to focus on the campaign and leave any jockeying for position until afterwards.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Four points:
1 - The location thing is juvenile and revealing, and smacks of a deliberate knee jerk. I'm not sure if that will be a political net plus.
2 - I thought that they had been noisily complaining about use of "camps" (eg the demonstrations at the former RAF bases). Said demonstrations then moved on to Jenrick's "migrant hotels" then to "migrant HMOs". Interpretation: the point is the opportunity to complain for attention, rather than fix the problem.
3 - Zia Yusuf lays out that the "camps" will be used to "hold them for a couple of weeks until deportation". Has he explained how he is going to enfoirce deportations within a couple of weeks, both from a "legal" point of view, and a "persuading countries (if they can be identified) to accept them back point of views?
4 - If they are not concentration camps, they will turn into them when the demanded timescale is shown to be a fantasy - just as has happened for Trump's camps run by ICE. I think that these camps, and the people who have died in them, will come back to haunt Trump and his senior ministers should the USA surviveve as a constitutional democracy.
On (3) persuading countries to accept deportees, iirc blocking all visas from countries that refused has been mooted. It might not be practicable because it risks trade wars but at least someone has given it 30 seconds' thought.
Agree on 1.
How do you return Iranians without the risk that Iran impounds the British air crew?
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Let's see, they've not been built yet. Personally I like to get ahead of things and form opinions based on where we are heading, not where we are right now. This probably comes from working in financial markets. Reform is trying to take us somewhere pretty dark IMHO. I'm not going to sit around and wait until my family is rounded up and put in one of these definitely not concentration camps before I raise any objections.
Raise objections by all means.
But I doubt they’ll be opening gas chambers or hiring Dr mengele for them and such melodramatic teaddle as using terms like concentration camps simply makes arguments against laughable. I’d say internment camps personally
Maybe we can agree to call them "not concentration camps" or "definitely not concentration camps" to signify the strength of our conviction on this point.
7 minute speeches, and quite interesting. To me the best was Clare Coutinho, who actually addressed the topic imo. The reform side were making, to my ear, Ref UK event speeches to the wrong audience.
One point I should have mentioned. Matt Goodwin explicitly defines Reform as "National Conservative" in his speech, which I have not heard previously.
I think there's been a few "Unite the Right!/Divide the Right!/We are the real right!/No we are!" youtubes, and not just the mad American ones.
"Unite the Right" was one slogan used by Goodwin or Kruger; So was using "Uniparty", which was a trope used much 10-15 years ago.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Flailing is how the US looks, kindova giant, lardy heavyweight (Tyson Fury?) v smaller, nimbler opponent (Usyk?). If the former connects with his massive punch match over, but he’s tiring and not thinking straight.
I assume that there’s some satisfaction in Tehran that they can put the nuclear on the back burner now they’v discovered the ultimate deterrent, control of the Straits of Hormuz.
If Iran has any sense, which is doubtful, it will offer to sell its enriched uranium to America in exchange for reparations and rebuilding its demolished girls schools and other infrastructure.
I don't think they're short of sense. Without anyone really knowing who their leader is there are few countries who don't believe they're running rings round Trump and his cabal.
The problem we all have is Trump is still winning bigly at home (by default). SCOTUS essentially reversing the Voting Rights Act of 1965 on strictly party lines has largely gone unnoticed on here.
So, in other ways Burnham is still not an MP, no sign the NEC is yet ready to approve him as a Labour parliamentary candidate and Ed Miliband and the rest of the centre left members of the Cabinet are therefore not ready to back Rayner to be Labour leader and PM. So the main impact of this story is Starmer likely stays as Labour leader and PM whatever happens on Thursday
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
Wikipedia’s article begins:
A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment.
Reform’s proposals do kind of fit that. Other definitions note that such camps sit outside regular law, and Reform are proposing that, leaving the ECHR and saying that internees will have no rights.
There are now only two outcomes to the conflict: either the kind of wholesale destruction of Iran that Mr. Trump posited, or a settlement that will leave the government intact and empowered, and a blustering American president humiliated.
Even if it's outcome 1, destruction of Iran, does that mean Hormuz will be open? Because if not, the main American war aim can only be satisfied with outcome 2.
The main American war aim is to smother the Epstein files.
That can only be achieved by a prolonged war. I don’t think it would even be guaranteed by a complete victory.
Of course, after the Israeli elections the pressure from Jerusalem is likely to slacken, as either it will have worked and Netanyahu will still be in power, or it will have failed and he will be in prison. That may help, but Trump is committed now so then again it may not.
Yes. Never forget that...
But now trump needs distraction from the Iran disaster.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Let's see, they've not been built yet. Personally I like to get ahead of things and form opinions based on where we are heading, not where we are right now. This probably comes from working in financial markets. Reform is trying to take us somewhere pretty dark IMHO. I'm not going to sit around and wait until my family is rounded up and put in one of these definitely not concentration camps before I raise any objections.
Raise objections by all means.
But I doubt they’ll be opening gas chambers or hiring Dr mengele for them and such melodramatic teaddle as using terms like concentration camps simply makes arguments against laughable. I’d say internment camps personally
Maybe we can agree to call them "not concentration camps" or "definitely not concentration camps" to signify the strength of our conviction on this point.
Boncentration Bamps, as they called them in North Minehead.
If we can't vote for parties that propose "camps" for undesirable people, whether British, Spanish, internment, concentration or death, then that rules out voting for the Labour Party, who proposed Gulags for Slags back in 2009
7 minute speeches, and quite interesting. To me the best was Clare Coutinho, who actually addressed the topic imo. The reform side were making, to my ear, Ref UK event speeches to the wrong audience.
One point I should have mentioned. Matt Goodwin explicitly defines Reform as "National Conservative" in his speech, which I have not heard previously.
I think there's been a few "Unite the Right!/Divide the Right!/We are the real right!/No we are!" youtubes, and not just the mad American ones.
"Unite the Right" was one slogan used by Goodwin or Kruger; So was using "Uniparty", which was a trope used much 10-15 years ago.
I don't believe one can put a cigarette paper between the current Conservative Party and Reform, so between them, how can they lose at the next GE?
Of course both are woke lefty parties compared to Rupert Lowe's latest vehicle.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Let's see, they've not been built yet. Personally I like to get ahead of things and form opinions based on where we are heading, not where we are right now. This probably comes from working in financial markets. Reform is trying to take us somewhere pretty dark IMHO. I'm not going to sit around and wait until my family is rounded up and put in one of these definitely not concentration camps before I raise any objections.
Raise objections by all means.
But I doubt they’ll be opening gas chambers or hiring Dr mengele for them and such melodramatic teaddle as using terms like concentration camps simply makes arguments against laughable. I’d say internment camps personally
Maybe we can agree to call them "not concentration camps" or "definitely not concentration camps" to signify the strength of our conviction on this point.
Have you considered a career in standup. Hilarious 😂😂
7 minute speeches, and quite interesting. To me the best was Clare Coutinho, who actually addressed the topic imo. The reform side were making, to my ear, Ref UK event speeches to the wrong audience.
One point I should have mentioned. Matt Goodwin explicitly defines Reform as "National Conservative" in his speech, which I have not heard previously.
I think there's been a few "Unite the Right!/Divide the Right!/We are the real right!/No we are!" youtubes, and not just the mad American ones.
"Unite the Right" was one slogan used by Goodwin or Kruger; So was using "Uniparty", which was a trope used much 10-15 years ago.
I don't believe one can put a cigarette paper between the current Conservative Party and Reform, so between them, how can they lose at the next GE?
Of course both are woke lefty parties compared to Rupert Lowe's latest vehicle.
Clare Coutinho pointed out that Reform's top team now contains for former members of Boris Johnson's cabinets than the Conservative top teeam.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Four points:
1 - The location thing is juvenile and revealing, and smacks of a deliberate knee jerk. I'm not sure if that will be a political net plus.
2 - I thought that they had been noisily complaining about use of "camps" (eg the demonstrations at the former RAF bases). Said demonstrations then moved on to Jenrick's "migrant hotels" then to "migrant HMOs". Interpretation: the point is the opportunity to complain for attention, rather than fix the problem.
3 - Zia Yusuf lays out that the "camps" will be used to "hold them for a couple of weeks until deportation". Has he explained how he is going to enfoirce deportations within a couple of weeks, both from a "legal" point of view, and a "persuading countries (if they can be identified) to accept them back point of views?
4 - If they are not concentration camps, they will turn into them when the demanded timescale is shown to be a fantasy - just as has happened for Trump's camps run by ICE. I think that these camps, and the people who have died in them, will come back to haunt Trump and his senior ministers should the USA surviveve as a constitutional democracy.
On (3) persuading countries to accept deportees, iirc blocking all visas from countries that refused has been mooted. It might not be practicable because it risks trade wars but at least someone has given it 30 seconds' thought.
Agree on 1.
How do you return Iranians without the risk that Iran impounds the British air crew?
A genuinely interesting segment for Ukraine's positioning.
From Ukraine the Latest, a couple of minutes on a visit by Zelensky to see the President of Azerbaijan, and the latter pivoting his security interests away from Russia towards Ukraine.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
Wikipedia’s article begins:
A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment.
Reform’s proposals do kind of fit that. Other definitions note that such camps sit outside regular law, and Reform are proposing that, leaving the ECHR and saying that internees will have no rights.
Originally a concentration camp was for the internment of women and children, while we conducted a scorched earth campaign against the Boers. It was not a happy idea. It was supposed to stop them dying of hunger, but instead they died of disease.
Hitler apparently used the term as a nod to the British Empire, and for concentrating undesirables.
So, as a place to concentrate illegal immigrants before deportation, the term is actually entirely appropriate.
Top two in the ‘jungle’ (nonpartisan) primary advance to the election in November, unless someone gets more than 50% in June.
Fair to say that a number of these candidates have changed their legal name from their birth name, including Barack D. Obama and Livingforgod Andcountry.
Perhaps the number of nominee signatories and the deposit need to be raised somewhat!
So, in other ways Burnham is still not an MP, no sign the NEC is yet ready to approve him as a Labour parliamentary candidate and Ed Miliband and the rest of the centre left members of the Cabinet are therefore not ready to back Rayner to be Labour leader and PM. So the main impact of this story is Starmer likely stays as Labour leader and PM whatever happens on Thursday
We don't know. Basically, it's too late for anything to happen before Thursday. After Thursday (or Sunday for slow counters) every Labour MP will be extrapolating from council results to their own prospects at the election.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
Wikipedia’s article begins:
A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment.
Reform’s proposals do kind of fit that. Other definitions note that such camps sit outside regular law, and Reform are proposing that, leaving the ECHR and saying that internees will have no rights.
Originally a concentration camp was for the internment of women and children, while we conducted a scorched earth campaign against the Boers. It was not a happy idea. It was supposed to stop them dying of hunger, but instead they died of disease.
Hitler apparently used the term as a nod to the British Empire, and for concentrating undesirables.
So, as a place to concentrate illegal immigrants before deportation, the term is actually entirely appropriate.
The term is deliberately used to imply, muh Nazism, from Reform. They’re trying to solve a problem of returning people with no right to stay. I appreciate PB general view is open door all are welcome.
It’s entirely inappropriate now. Based on what the camps became.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Let's see, they've not been built yet. Personally I like to get ahead of things and form opinions based on where we are heading, not where we are right now. This probably comes from working in financial markets. Reform is trying to take us somewhere pretty dark IMHO. I'm not going to sit around and wait until my family is rounded up and put in one of these definitely not concentration camps before I raise any objections.
Raise objections by all means.
But I doubt they’ll be opening gas chambers or hiring Dr mengele for them and such melodramatic teaddle as using terms like concentration camps simply makes arguments against laughable. I’d say internment camps personally
Maybe we can agree to call them "not concentration camps" or "definitely not concentration camps" to signify the strength of our conviction on this point.
Agree on "technically these are concentration camps but some people may object to being compared with murderous Nazis because you're not actually meant to kill the inmates"
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
Wikipedia’s article begins:
A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment.
Reform’s proposals do kind of fit that. Other definitions note that such camps sit outside regular law, and Reform are proposing that, leaving the ECHR and saying that internees will have no rights.
Originally a concentration camp was for the internment of women and children, while we conducted a scorched earth campaign against the Boers. It was not a happy idea. It was supposed to stop them dying of hunger, but instead they died of disease.
Hitler apparently used the term as a nod to the British Empire, and for concentrating undesirables.
So, as a place to concentrate illegal immigrants before deportation, the term is actually entirely appropriate.
The term is deliberately used to imply, muh Nazism, from Reform. They’re trying to solve a problem of returning people with no right to stay. I appreciate PB general view is open door all are welcome.
It’s entirely inappropriate now. Based on what the camps became.
They are changing the rules on who can stay, and then trying to solve the problem of returning them.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
Wikipedia’s article begins:
A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment.
Reform’s proposals do kind of fit that. Other definitions note that such camps sit outside regular law, and Reform are proposing that, leaving the ECHR and saying that internees will have no rights.
Originally a concentration camp was for the internment of women and children, while we conducted a scorched earth campaign against the Boers. It was not a happy idea. It was supposed to stop them dying of hunger, but instead they died of disease.
Hitler apparently used the term as a nod to the British Empire, and for concentrating undesirables.
So, as a place to concentrate illegal immigrants before deportation, the term is actually entirely appropriate.
The term is deliberately used to imply, muh Nazism, from Reform. They’re trying to solve a problem of returning people with no right to stay. I appreciate PB general view is open door all are welcome.
It’s entirely inappropriate now. Based on what the camps became.
Indeed. Strong "Well, Ackshually" energy on PB today.
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
Richard Dawkins @RichardDawkins · 5 Jun 2021 Kafka’s Metamorphosis is called a major work of literature. Why? If it’s SF it’s bad SF. If, like Animal Farm, it’s an allegory, an allegory of what? Scholarly answers range from pretentious Freudian to far-fetched feminist. I don’t get it. Where are the Emperor’s clothes?
A genine lol reply to puncture his ever increasing self importance.
Moose Allain Ꙭ @MooseAllain Wondering if anyone else has been affected by any of the issues in Kafka's The Metamorphosis? At the moment I'm just putting out feelers.
"As Richard Dawkins awoke one morning from uneasy dreams, he found himself transformed in his bed into a gigantic..."
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
Four points:
1 - The location thing is juvenile and revealing, and smacks of a deliberate knee jerk. I'm not sure if that will be a political net plus.
2 - I thought that they had been noisily complaining about use of "camps" (eg the demonstrations at the former RAF bases). Said demonstrations then moved on to Jenrick's "migrant hotels" then to "migrant HMOs". Interpretation: the point is the opportunity to complain for attention, rather than fix the problem.
3 - Zia Yusuf lays out that the "camps" will be used to "hold them for a couple of weeks until deportation". Has he explained how he is going to enfoirce deportations within a couple of weeks, both from a "legal" point of view, and a "persuading countries (if they can be identified) to accept them back point of views?
4 - If they are not concentration camps, they will turn into them when the demanded timescale is shown to be a fantasy - just as has happened for Trump's camps run by ICE. I think that these camps, and the people who have died in them, will come back to haunt Trump and his senior ministers should the USA surviveve as a constitutional democracy.
On (3) persuading countries to accept deportees, iirc blocking all visas from countries that refused has been mooted. It might not be practicable because it risks trade wars but at least someone has given it 30 seconds' thought.
Agree on 1.
How do you return Iranians without the risk that Iran impounds the British air crew?
Parachutes
Woke Wet Liberal. Surely their landing is their own responsibility to organise?
Tomorrow, @TexasMonthly will be dropping a ~12,000 word story on Paul Pressler, the alleged sexual predator who remade the Southern Baptist Convention and helped ordain the marriage between the GOP and white evangelical voters. There is *a lot* in there and I hope you'll read it. https://x.com/RobertDownen_/status/2051060558112162211
That's actually quite Trumpish in the manipulations, though establishment rather than robber-baron. Big wheel in the Southern Baptist, religious, and organising sector - politics, church, judge. Supplied very untransparently with "personal assistants" rather than a salary in one arrangement. Paid off a claimant with $450k hush money in 2004. Past experience of paying people off who made claims.
(He's dead, btw.)
A revealing little insight on these people. There was a stained glass window of HIM, rather than say a Saint or a bible story, in a Baptist Seminary, which was removed some years ago. They aggrandise themselves, regardless of all the "Prayer for Humility" type hymns. The window style is truly gruesome:
The Speaker of the House of Representatives had a connection of sorts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Johnson ..In August 2010, Johnson was named the "founding dean" of the newly established Pressler School of Law at Louisiana College. The law school never opened, and Johnson resigned in August 2012. Joe Aguillard, accused by a university vice president of misappropriating money and lying to the board, blamed Johnson's resignation for the law school's failure. The college soon terminated Aguillard, as it was determined he "engaged in numerous improprieties and falsities in his representations not only to school donors, but to the Board of Trustees".The parent college has since been embroiled in administrative and legal problems.
Johnson served from 2004 to 2012 on the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention..
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
Well I can see Camden going Green at the next general election which means you'll get a gulag on your front door which will be fun.
I am sure you will take it with all the good grace we've come to expect from you.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
That would be a Nazi death camp.
The generic concentration camp is not quite what this is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_camp ..A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment...
Though you could certainly make a case for it fitting that description - particularly if Reform were to adopt something similar to ICE's legally questionable detention practices.
Starmer will be looked back on a lot better in twenty years on the basis he made the biggest call right.
If he’d gone with Badenoch or Farage’s advice Labour would be polling under 10% now.
Same with Johnson on Ukraine by that yardstick
Correct.
I suspect it would be churlish not to give Johnson significant credit for Ukraine.
For cynics amongst us we might question whether it was altruistic statesmanship or the last throw of the dice to save a dying political career. Perhaps a bit of both?
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
The Soviet gulag camps were also concentration camps. Though some of those were also death camps.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Concentration camps were invented by the Spanish, during the 1895-1898 Cuban War of Independence.
Starmer will be looked back on a lot better in twenty years on the basis he made the biggest call right.
If he’d gone with Badenoch or Farage’s advice Labour would be polling under 10% now.
Same with Johnson on Ukraine by that yardstick
Correct.
I suspect it would be churlish not to give Johnson significant credit for Ukraine.
For cynics amongst us we might question whether it was altruistic statesmanship or the last throw of the dice to save a dying political career. Perhaps a bit of both?
Though he went far further than other Western politicians. Remember when we were being told that Germany refusing to allow reapply flights from the U.K. to the Ukraine to fly though German airspace was a sensible policy?
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 9m One other thing. If Nigel Farage thinks he’s going to be able to build a migrant detention centre in the middle of Lewisham or Hackney he’s in for a nasty shock.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Starmer will be looked back on a lot better in twenty years on the basis he made the biggest call right.
If he’d gone with Badenoch or Farage’s advice Labour would be polling under 10% now.
Same with Johnson on Ukraine by that yardstick
Correct.
I suspect it would be churlish not to give Johnson significant credit for Ukraine.
For cynics amongst us we might question whether it was altruistic statesmanship or the last throw of the dice to save a dying political career. Perhaps a bit of both?
Though he went far further than other Western politicians. Remember when we were being told that Germany refusing to allow reapply flights from the U.K. to the Ukraine to fly though German airspace was a sensible policy?
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
Agreed on (1) and (2), and many are getting suckered in.
Disagree on (3). I think most objectors are anti the idea in principle, rather than just on grounds of it being near them. I think most of the noise today is that the salience of Reform's proposal for camps is once again high, rather than the specific proposal of siting them in Green areas, which just comes across as cheap politicking.
My main objection is the (probably) unintended consequences. I agree with @taz that the use of 'concentration camps' is inappropriate after the Nazis, let's say, developed that idea rather further than the British did.
However, even if we call them internment camps it still further normalises the dehumanisation of migrants and asylum seekers. This probably isn't intentional but is a very dangerous road to go further down.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
Well I can see Camden going Green at the next general election which means you'll get a gulag on your front door which will be fun.
I am sure you will take it with all the good grace we've come to expect from you.
I live about 200 yards from Arlington Road. Do you know Arlington Road? A migrant camp would probably gentrify the area
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
What is it with authoritarians and the demon drink? Trump also, it is said, refuses an alcoholic tipple..
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
Agreed on (1) and (2), and many are getting suckered in.
Disagree on (3). I think most objectors are anti the idea in principle, rather than just on grounds of it being near them. I think most of the noise today is that the salience of Reform's proposal for camps is once again high, rather than the specific proposal of siting them in Green areas, which just comes across as cheap politicking.
My main objection is the (probably) unintended consequences. I agree with @taz that the use of 'concentration camps' is inappropriate after the Nazis, let's say, developed that idea rather further than the British did.
However, even if we call them internment camps it still further normalises the dehumanisation of migrants and asylum seekers. This probably isn't intentional but is a very dangerous road to go further down.
4) Exposes yet again that Reform are British Trump.
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
You’re so right and as for 3 the pro mass inward migration, no human is illegal, Green deputy leader found putting 600 men in Crowborough, her own area, to be something that shouldn’t be done 😂😂😂
400,000 views in just the first hour. It is genius, and I've just realised there's a fourth reason why it is genius
A few days before the election, it switches the entire national debate on to illegal migrants, boat people, immigration in general, open borders, and it tells you Reform's policy is "no more come in, lots go home". Which is, I suspect, very popular, even with people that are allergic to Saint Nigel of Clacton
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
You’re so right and as for 3 the pro mass inward migration, no human is illegal, Green deputy leader found putting 600 men in Crowborough, her own area, to be something that shouldn’t be done 😂😂😂
So, in other ways Burnham is still not an MP, no sign the NEC is yet ready to approve him as a Labour parliamentary candidate and Ed Miliband and the rest of the centre left members of the Cabinet are therefore not ready to back Rayner to be Labour leader and PM. So the main impact of this story is Starmer likely stays as Labour leader and PM whatever happens on Thursday
We don't know. Basically, it's too late for anything to happen before Thursday. After Thursday (or Sunday for slow counters) every Labour MP will be extrapolating from council results to their own prospects at the election.
No they won't: not all of them. The one's who think Reeves is a financial wunderkind won't have the basic skills required. That includes Starmer.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
400,000 views in just the first hour. It is genius, and I've just realised there's a fourth reason why it is genius
A few days before the election, it switches the entire national debate on to illegal migrants, boat people, immigration in general, open borders, and it tells you Reform's policy is "no more come in, lots go home". Which is, I suspect, very popular, even with people that are allergic to Saint Nigel of Clacton
There's a fifth reason as well. It raises the political cost to the government of accommodating migrants in Reform-voting or Reform-leaning areas.
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
Well I can see Camden going Green at the next general election which means you'll get a gulag on your front door which will be fun.
I am sure you will take it with all the good grace we've come to expect from you.
I live about 200 yards from Arlington Road. Do you know Arlington Road? A migrant camp would probably gentrify the area
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
Agreed on (1) and (2), and many are getting suckered in.
Disagree on (3). I think most objectors are anti the idea in principle, rather than just on grounds of it being near them. I think most of the noise today is that the salience of Reform's proposal for camps is once again high, rather than the specific proposal of siting them in Green areas, which just comes across as cheap politicking.
My main objection is the (probably) unintended consequences. I agree with @taz that the use of 'concentration camps' is inappropriate after the Nazis, let's say, developed that idea rather further than the British did.
However, even if we call them internment camps it still further normalises the dehumanisation of migrants and asylum seekers. This probably isn't intentional but is a very dangerous road to go further down.
Question is whether "Vote to put the camps somewhere else" polls better than "Vote not to have the camps in the first place". Either way it moves the discussion away from Reform's probable preferred battleground of "Vote to do something [slightly vague] about immigrants"
It also may remind people what they dislike about Reform: that they are manipulative, nasty and unserious.
Reform absolutely do intend to normalise the dehumanisation of migrants and asylum seekers.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
What is it with authoritarians and the demon drink? Trump also, it is said, refuses an alcoholic tipple..
On the other hand, Hegseth and Patel not so much.
Hitler was also very keen on trains and town planning.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
What is it with authoritarians and the demon drink? Trump also, it is said, refuses an alcoholic tipple..
On the other hand, Hegseth and Patel not so much.
Hitler was also very keen on trains and town planning.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
What is it with authoritarians and the demon drink? Trump also, it is said, refuses an alcoholic tipple..
On the other hand, Hegseth and Patel not so much.
Hitler was also very keen on trains and town planning.
I am not sure that and his love of dogs compensates for the genocide and the armed expansionism.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
What is it with authoritarians and the demon drink? Trump also, it is said, refuses an alcoholic tipple..
On the other hand, Hegseth and Patel not so much.
Hitler was also very keen on trains and town planning.
Nah, he strikes me as being more into Autobahns than railways.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
What is it with authoritarians and the demon drink? Trump also, it is said, refuses an alcoholic tipple..
On the other hand, Hegseth and Patel not so much.
Hitler was also very keen on trains and town planning.
Nah, he strikes me as being more into Autobahns than railways.
On the Reform camps to concentrate migrants for deportation.
The location methodology brings to mind a quote.
“Own the Libtards”
The location is half of the reason for them - to “give Them a taste of their own medicine”.
You'd be hard pressed to find a spot to build one of these concentration camps in my own liberal minded inner London constituency but Reform would be more than welcome to give it a go if they fancy it. Good luck to them getting anyone in or out though.
Things have so developed in the last year and a half that the fact Reform is promising to build concentration camps is now marginally less toxic than the fact Reform is doing things like Donald Trump.
I don’t approve of this policy at all but calling them concentration camps is not only absurd it also diminishes the reality of actual concentration camps and those who lost their lives in them.
What they’re proposing are prisons, camps that the inhabitants can’t leave (until they’re deported).
Internment camps if you like
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
We call Auschwitz etc "concentration camps" because that's what the Nazis called them - Konzentrationslager. They could have called them "death camps", which is what they were. Blame them if you prefer your concentration camps without gas chambers.
Hitler was an evil, evil, idiot.
He was anti-smoking though. Allegedly, one of the reasons it took so long for the 'Rest of the West' to come down firmly against the habit.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
What is it with authoritarians and the demon drink? Trump also, it is said, refuses an alcoholic tipple..
On the other hand, Hegseth and Patel not so much.
Hitler was also very keen on trains and town planning.
I am not sure that and his love of dogs compensates for the genocide and the armed expansionism.
There’s a hilarious story about the animal welfare concerns of the Nazis & prosecuting the Commandant of Auschwitz for sadism. By the Nazis.
Burnham's problem is he needs to pass through 7 gates to become PM
1) He needs a seat to become available 2) He needs the byelection to be scheduled for as soon as possible 3) He needs the NEC to overturn their ban on him standing 4) He needs to be selected for the seat 5) He needs to win the byelection 6) He needs any Labour leadership contest to happen after he is back in parliament 7) He needs to win the leadership contest
The hardest ones are 2,3,6 as they are dependent on what his political opponents do. It's not in the interests of the Starmer faction to allow him to stand and it's not in the interests of other contenders like Streeting for a contest to be delayed.
5 looks tricky to me. In any seat he faces a cross electorate, the tendency for elections to cluster around just two candidates, the resultant tactical voting and the English sense of duty towards being told what to do by their betters.
Comments
I assume that there’s some satisfaction in Tehran that they can put the nuclear on the back burner now they’v discovered the ultimate deterrent, control of the Straits of Hormuz.
And NATO is going nowhere.
Where should illegal migrant detention centres should be located?
Reform want to vindictively target Brits in potential Green constituencies to make a point and house illegals next to them - that is their choice. But I don't believe that we have time for this petty nonsense.
https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/2051196933167792437
(Rest of long rambling tweet omitted.)
So no de-escalation
I think using the term concentration camp is absurd
I doubt gas chambers will be involved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ingS36cJLS4
https://theconversation.com/concentration-camps-in-the-south-african-war-here-are-the-real-facts-112006
Hope you and yours are all fine.
There is an election campaign. I would want fellow members of my political party to focus on the campaign and leave any jockeying for position until afterwards.
Deluded.
A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment.
Reform’s proposals do kind of fit that. Other definitions note that such camps sit outside regular law, and Reform are proposing that, leaving the ECHR and saying that internees will have no rights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5uAqV4c2s
As did Deborah Haynes:
https://www.tiktok.com/@thesun/video/7254892812095737115
https://order-order.com/2009/09/29/exclusive-browns-gulags-for-slags-policy-taken-from-bnp/
Of course both are woke lefty parties compared to Rupert Lowe's latest vehicle.
All clear now, thankfully.
Boers vs pub bores
From Ukraine the Latest, a couple of minutes on a visit by Zelensky to see the President of Azerbaijan, and the latter pivoting his security interests away from Russia towards Ukraine.
https://youtu.be/1MtcPXPHlVI?t=1384
Hitler apparently used the term as a nod to the British Empire, and for concentrating undesirables.
So, as a place to concentrate illegal immigrants before deportation, the term is actually entirely appropriate.
https://x.com/lainaminute/status/2051132640280080477
Top two in the ‘jungle’ (nonpartisan) primary advance to the election in November, unless someone gets more than 50% in June.
Fair to say that a number of these candidates have changed their legal name from their birth name, including Barack D. Obama and Livingforgod Andcountry.
Perhaps the number of nominee signatories and the deposit need to be raised somewhat!
It’s entirely inappropriate now. Based on what the camps became.
1. It's a massive dead cat to distract from Farage's five mil, and it's working
2. It's designed to annoy all the right noisy people, and it's working (see point 1)
and
3. It ensures the objectors must say why having a migrant camp in your nice liberal Green-voting area is suddenly so bad, rather than just dumping them in the poorest parts of the country, for the white working classes to deal with, which is what we have done until now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Johnson
..In August 2010, Johnson was named the "founding dean" of the newly established Pressler School of Law at Louisiana College. The law school never opened, and Johnson resigned in August 2012.
Joe Aguillard, accused by a university vice president of misappropriating money and lying to the board, blamed Johnson's resignation for the law school's failure. The college soon terminated Aguillard, as it was determined he "engaged in numerous improprieties and falsities in his representations not only to school donors, but to the Board of Trustees".The parent college has since been embroiled in administrative and legal problems.
Johnson served from 2004 to 2012 on the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention..
I am sure you will take it with all the good grace we've come to expect from you.
The generic concentration camp is not quite what this is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_camp
..A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment...
Though you could certainly make a case for it fitting that description - particularly if Reform were to adopt something similar to ICE's legally questionable detention practices.
For cynics amongst us we might question whether it was altruistic statesmanship or the last throw of the dice to save a dying political career. Perhaps a bit of both?
Though some of those were also death camps.
If he wanted to help the cause, then him and his lickspittles should shut the fuck up, and stop drip feeding stories to the Telegraph.
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
9m
One other thing. If Nigel Farage thinks he’s going to be able to build a migrant detention centre in the middle of Lewisham or Hackney he’s in for a nasty shock.
https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2051302271237955667
See the original story at
https://www.reddit.com/r/googlemapsshenanigans/s/egf6lMdf8A
Disagree on (3). I think most objectors are anti the idea in principle, rather than just on grounds of it being near them. I think most of the noise today is that the salience of Reform's proposal for camps is once again high, rather than the specific proposal of siting them in Green areas, which just comes across as cheap politicking.
My main objection is the (probably) unintended consequences. I agree with @taz that the use of 'concentration camps' is inappropriate after the Nazis, let's say, developed that idea rather further than the British did.
However, even if we call them internment camps it still further normalises the dehumanisation of migrants and asylum seekers. This probably isn't intentional but is a very dangerous road to go further down.
Edit: And a teetotaller, although that's not as desirable as characteristic!
On the other hand, Hegseth and Patel not so much.
Dump them all in Rochdale or Gateshead.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/green-party-deputy-leader-calls-in-after-ben-criticises-her-5HjdGkC_2/
They've probably done the Greens a favour by taking the spotlight away from Polanski's squirming.
"If you vote Reform you will not have an illegal migrant deportation facility in your area.
"We will hold migrants awaiting deportation in constituencies that vote Green instead.
"You get what you vote for."
https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2051285128354181516?s=20
400,000 views in just the first hour. It is genius, and I've just realised there's a fourth reason why it is genius
A few days before the election, it switches the entire national debate on to illegal migrants, boat people, immigration in general, open borders, and it tells you Reform's policy is "no more come in, lots go home". Which is, I suspect, very popular, even with people that are allergic to Saint Nigel of Clacton
Not to be confused with the Green deputy leader who is an antisemite.
@robertscotthorton.bsky.social
In the last week, Moscow has been flooded with rumors that Putin is about to be assassinated or ousted somehow. Nothing more than rumors. But still, Putin is spooked.
https://bsky.app/profile/robertscotthorton.bsky.social/post/3mkzvob4pnc2j
It also may remind people what they dislike about Reform: that they are manipulative, nasty and unserious.
Reform absolutely do intend to normalise the dehumanisation of migrants and asylum seekers.
One just goes ahead and does it!
Vast capacity, high speed trains from the Atlantic to the Urals. And beyond.
You just need the right sense of humour.