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Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his life – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,924

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    1hr 59 min 30 sec !!

    We will now see 10s of people do it. As soon as Kipchoge did it, it was clear it could be done.
    Yep, Kipchoge’s exhibition run proved that two hours was possible - in perfect conditions and with pacemakers not allowed for a record.

    It’s been said before, but it’s a frightening pace, 21km/h, 17s/100m, 420 times in a row! Most treadmills in gyms don’t go that fast.
    We're so used to watching amazing feats of physical prowess through professional sports that even though we know 99% of people could not do even half of it, we underestimate just how astonishing many athletes are.

    Marathon runners should be way more acclaimed than 100m stars.
    I quite liked the suggestion that, at the Olympics, they pick from the crowd a random guy in his 20s that doesn’t train professionally, to compete in every event - so we can see how crazy the athletes look next to normal people.
    I think the gap between normies and elites has become so enormous with all the modern science backed training. You are already taking the top 1 of 1 of 1%, but now controlling everything about their lives for 10+ years all to optimise performance. Even sports you don't associate necessarily with supreme strength e.g. cricket, the likes of Stokes are absolute units. That is why even drunk Stokes had little problem putting two attackers down.
    Ever stand next to a professional rugby player? So dense with muscle i felt their gravitational pull.
    I know somebody who works with a couple of Gallagher Premiership teams and he says their gym programmes are insane. I have my suspisions about how some might achieve that especially early on in careers.

    NFL of course where they take an incredibly lack view of PEDs, its absolute freak show of human performance.
    I do recall in Leeds standing in the breakfast queue between Stuart Broad and Stephen Finn. It really helped me relate to Tyrion Lannister.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420

    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character
    2) He was previously shot and nearly killed

    A lot of people seem to have some amnesia towards the second point. Anyway as much as I criticise the BBC I'll happily rely on Gary Donoghue's verdict for now. (He was actually there).

    I think most people here don’t care about point 2
    True I don’t care and neither does most of the world . Sadly an innocent person lost his life . If Trump had been wiped out most people would hold street parties .

    Trump is true evil and a stain on humanity .
    It could have been catastrophic for the United States. Once you accept that murder is an acceptable part of the political process, where does it end?
    Trump assassinated several Iranian leaders, no?
    Haven’t there been four assassinated US presidents? Why would a fifth be catastrophic?
    Because it would deliver President J D Vance.

    Likely the only reason Ukraine isn't in the frame for a hit on Trump. (Well, that - and they wouldn't have mssed...)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,640
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    1hr 59 min 30 sec !!

    We will now see 10s of people do it. As soon as Kipchoge did it, it was clear it could be done.
    Yep, Kipchoge’s exhibition run proved that two hours was possible - in perfect conditions and with pacemakers not allowed for a record.

    It’s been said before, but it’s a frightening pace, 21km/h, 17s/100m, 420 times in a row! Most treadmills in gyms don’t go that fast.
    We're so used to watching amazing feats of physical prowess through professional sports that even though we know 99% of people could not do even half of it, we underestimate just how astonishing many athletes are.

    Marathon runners should be way more acclaimed than 100m stars.
    I quite liked the suggestion that, at the Olympics, they pick from the crowd a random guy in his 20s that doesn’t train professionally, to compete in every event - so we can see how crazy the athletes look next to normal people.
    When I was a (semi) pro cyclist we occasionally got keen amateurs trying to join us on training rides. It's generally not a good idea because even if they were fit enough, which they weren't, they just weren't used to riding really fast 10cm away from the bike in front so it was fucking dangerous. We used to put my fellow stagiaire Jacky Durand on the front setting a pace which resulted in the total physical and emotional disintegration of the tourists within 1km.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    A clear answer? From a Starmer government? Good luck with that...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,612
    edited April 26

    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character
    2) He was previously shot and nearly killed

    A lot of people seem to have some amnesia towards the second point. Anyway as much as I criticise the BBC I'll happily rely on Gary Donoghue's verdict for now. (He was actually there).

    I think most people here don’t care about point 2
    True I don’t care and neither does most of the world . Sadly an innocent person lost his life . If Trump had been wiped out most people would hold street parties .

    Trump is true evil and a stain on humanity .
    It could have been catastrophic for the United States. Once you accept that murder is an acceptable part of the political process, where does it end?
    Trump assassinated several Iranian leaders, no?
    Haven’t there been four assassinated US presidents? Why would a fifth be catastrophic?
    I amazed that in a country with more guns than people they can't find anyone who can shoot straight.
    Doing a bendy shot is far more difficult

    And for the physicists/mathematicians out there, yes I know all shots are bendy in the vertical plane. All Newtons fault.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,649
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    1hr 59 min 30 sec !!

    We will now see 10s of people do it. As soon as Kipchoge did it, it was clear it could be done.
    Yep, Kipchoge’s exhibition run proved that two hours was possible - in perfect conditions and with pacemakers not allowed for a record.

    It’s been said before, but it’s a frightening pace, 21km/h, 17s/100m, 420 times in a row! Most treadmills in gyms don’t go that fast.
    We're so used to watching amazing feats of physical prowess through professional sports that even though we know 99% of people could not do even half of it, we underestimate just how astonishing many athletes are.

    Marathon runners should be way more acclaimed than 100m stars.
    I quite liked the suggestion that, at the Olympics, they pick from the crowd a random guy in his 20s that doesn’t train professionally, to compete in every event - so we can see how crazy the athletes look next to normal people.
    I think the gap between normies and elites has become so enormous with all the modern science backed training. You are already taking the top 1 of 1 of 1%, but now controlling everything about their lives for 10+ years all to optimise performance. Even sports you don't associate necessarily with supreme strength e.g. cricket, the likes of Stokes are absolute units. That is why even drunk Stokes had little problem putting two attackers down.
    Ever stand next to a professional rugby player? So dense with muscle i felt their gravitational pull.
    I know somebody who works with a couple of Gallagher Premiership teams and he says their gym programmes are insane. I have my suspisions about how some might achieve that especially early on in careers.

    NFL of course where they take an incredibly lack view of PEDs, its absolute freak show of human performance.
    I do recall in Leeds standing in the breakfast queue between Stuart Broad and Stephen Finn. It really helped me relate to Tyrion Lannister.
    For appreciating the dramatic difference between professional and decent amateur little can match cricket. Even retired fast bowlers cannot be allowed to bowl at their normal pace against club batsmen. Just ain't safe.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,924
    edited April 26

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    1hr 59 min 30 sec !!

    We will now see 10s of people do it. As soon as Kipchoge did it, it was clear it could be done.
    Yep, Kipchoge’s exhibition run proved that two hours was possible - in perfect conditions and with pacemakers not allowed for a record.

    It’s been said before, but it’s a frightening pace, 21km/h, 17s/100m, 420 times in a row! Most treadmills in gyms don’t go that fast.
    We're so used to watching amazing feats of physical prowess through professional sports that even though we know 99% of people could not do even half of it, we underestimate just how astonishing many athletes are.

    Marathon runners should be way more acclaimed than 100m stars.
    I quite liked the suggestion that, at the Olympics, they pick from the crowd a random guy in his 20s that doesn’t train professionally, to compete in every event - so we can see how crazy the athletes look next to normal people.
    I think the gap between normies and elites has become so enormous with all the modern science backed training. You are already taking the top 1 of 1 of 1%, but now controlling everything about their lives for 10+ years all to optimise performance. Even sports you don't associate necessarily with supreme strength e.g. cricket, the likes of Stokes are absolute units. That is why even drunk Stokes had little problem putting two attackers down.
    Ever stand next to a professional rugby player? So dense with muscle i felt their gravitational pull.
    I know somebody who works with a couple of Gallagher Premiership teams and he says their gym programmes are insane. I have my suspisions about how some might achieve that especially early on in careers.

    NFL of course where they take an incredibly lack view of PEDs, its absolute freak show of human performance.
    I do recall in Leeds standing in the breakfast queue between Stuart Broad and Stephen Finn. It really helped me relate to Tyrion Lannister.
    For appreciating the dramatic difference between professional and decent amateur little can match cricket. Even retired fast bowlers cannot be allowed to bowl at their normal pace against club batsmen. Just ain't safe.
    Hard to beat this. Shelly Ann Fraser Price in a mums race.
    https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=professional+sprinter+in+mums+race&mid=87BCE4E0A48178C9196687BCE4E0A48178C91966&churl=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwD9E_QNwFwrQC7OnPnrg2Q&FORM=VIRE
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    Also reports that Ukraine is starting to hit targets beyond the Urals. Frankly it's a good thing we're seeing this progress because the loosening of sanctions and higher oil prices are a lifeline to the Russian economy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388
    Jenrick's been up in Grimsby, telling locals they have been let down by the "establishment"


    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield

    Former immigration minister, health minister, Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury hits out at the political establishment.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2048352613792358414
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,251

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    That could/should be fatal no?

    If the Government line is now that it wasn't a meeting, Starmer must withdraw that answer 'at the earliest opportunity'. Test of Reform as they possibly quite like Palantir and their money. But Kemi and the Tories should aim to blow this wide open.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    On the slightly weird Trump assassination attempt...

    The attempt certainly meets a Trump agenda. So yes, you need a patsy to try. But, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that an attempt gets discovered - and with Trumps blessing, gets to run its course of shots being fired (as long as none actually hit him, natch). If everyone knows the attempt is going to happen - and is going to be foiled - then you can imagine why the entire Administration was in attendance.

    Pure speculation.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    edited April 26

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    1hr 59 min 30 sec !!

    We will now see 10s of people do it. As soon as Kipchoge did it, it was clear it could be done.
    Yep, Kipchoge’s exhibition run proved that two hours was possible - in perfect conditions and with pacemakers not allowed for a record.

    It’s been said before, but it’s a frightening pace, 21km/h, 17s/100m, 420 times in a row! Most treadmills in gyms don’t go that fast.
    We're so used to watching amazing feats of physical prowess through professional sports that even though we know 99% of people could not do even half of it, we underestimate just how astonishing many athletes are.

    Marathon runners should be way more acclaimed than 100m stars.
    I quite liked the suggestion that, at the Olympics, they pick from the crowd a random guy in his 20s that doesn’t train professionally, to compete in every event - so we can see how crazy the athletes look next to normal people.
    I think the gap between normies and elites has become so enormous with all the modern science backed training. You are already taking the top 1 of 1 of 1%, but now controlling everything about their lives for 10+ years all to optimise performance. Even sports you don't associate necessarily with supreme strength e.g. cricket, the likes of Stokes are absolute units. That is why even drunk Stokes had little problem putting two attackers down.
    Ever stand next to a professional rugby player? So dense with muscle i felt their gravitational pull.
    I know somebody who works with a couple of Gallagher Premiership teams and he says their gym programmes are insane. I have my suspisions about how some might achieve that especially early on in careers.

    NFL of course where they take an incredibly lack view of PEDs, its absolute freak show of human performance.
    I do recall in Leeds standing in the breakfast queue between Stuart Broad and Stephen Finn. It really helped me relate to Tyrion Lannister.
    For appreciating the dramatic difference between professional and decent amateur little can match cricket. Even retired fast bowlers cannot be allowed to bowl at their normal pace against club batsmen. Just ain't safe.
    Actually I would say cricket is one sport where you have lots of teams that pay pros and they pay them to play properly. I played through 3 divisions of men's amateur cricket to the top amateur (its "amateur" in the way rubgy was "amateur" league in two different regions below the pros and faced loads of current, former and future pros who didn't hold back. I had one season were I faced Mushtaq Ahmed, Otis Gibson and 3 other rapid West Indians who won caps for the West Indias amongst other pros. The great Imran Tahir was also playing in the same league at that time (but my club didn't play his).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    1hr 59 min 30 sec !!

    We will now see 10s of people do it. As soon as Kipchoge did it, it was clear it could be done.
    Yep, Kipchoge’s exhibition run proved that two hours was possible - in perfect conditions and with pacemakers not allowed for a record.

    It’s been said before, but it’s a frightening pace, 21km/h, 17s/100m, 420 times in a row! Most treadmills in gyms don’t go that fast.
    We're so used to watching amazing feats of physical prowess through professional sports that even though we know 99% of people could not do even half of it, we underestimate just how astonishing many athletes are.

    Marathon runners should be way more acclaimed than 100m stars.
    I quite liked the suggestion that, at the Olympics, they pick from the crowd a random guy in his 20s that doesn’t train professionally, to compete in every event - so we can see how crazy the athletes look next to normal people.
    I think the gap between normies and elites has become so enormous with all the modern science backed training. You are already taking the top 1 of 1 of 1%, but now controlling everything about their lives for 10+ years all to optimise performance. Even sports you don't associate necessarily with supreme strength e.g. cricket, the likes of Stokes are absolute units. That is why even drunk Stokes had little problem putting two attackers down.
    Ever stand next to a professional rugby player? So dense with muscle i felt their gravitational pull.
    I know somebody who works with a couple of Gallagher Premiership teams and he says their gym programmes are insane. I have my suspisions about how some might achieve that especially early on in careers.

    NFL of course where they take an incredibly lack view of PEDs, its absolute freak show of human performance.
    I do recall in Leeds standing in the breakfast queue between Stuart Broad and Stephen Finn. It really helped me relate to Tyrion Lannister.
    For appreciating the dramatic difference between professional and decent amateur little can match cricket. Even retired fast bowlers cannot be allowed to bowl at their normal pace against club batsmen. Just ain't safe.
    Hard to beat this. Shelly Ann Fraser in a mums race.
    https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=professional+sprinter+in+mums+race&mid=87BCE4E0A48178C9196687BCE4E0A48178C91966&churl=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwD9E_QNwFwrQC7OnPnrg2Q&FORM=VIRE
    Definitely don’t volunteer for the parents’ races at school sports day if you live in Jamaica!

    Apparently she didn’t want to do it, but all the other parents and kids pressganged her into it so they could say they raced against her! Eleven point something for 100m on grass.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/shelly-ann-fraser-pryce-interview-090100021.html
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814

    Jenrick's been up in Grimsby, telling locals they have been let down by the "establishment"


    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield

    Former immigration minister, health minister, Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury hits out at the political establishment.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2048352613792358414

    No shame.

    It's about establishment priorities, not anti-establishment rebels.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814

    Jenrick's been up in Grimsby, telling locals they have been let down by the "establishment"


    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield

    Former immigration minister, health minister, Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury hits out at the political establishment.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2048352613792358414

    No shame.

    It's about establishment priorities, not anti-establishment rebels.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239
    Eabhal said:
    I wondered about that. How many security bods would we send, and how many would the hosts provide?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,640

    Save ar Redd Arrers!

    I sort of see the point, if you’re going to have an expensive, meaningless symbol of Britishness, it might as well have a UJ on it.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2197404/ex-red-arrows-rally-urge-labour-british-planes

    There is a very narrow path of possible action for the MoD here and it involves giving the Hawk T2s from Valley to RAFAT. Loosely spannered together at the East Riding Theatre of Dreams so that's the Bri'ish box ticked. They are plenty of them and they have relatively low hours because they've spent of their life being broken due to engine issues.

    The RAF would like T-7 to replace Hawk T2 for the AJT mission but they won't be allowed to buy that. They might get M-346 or send crew to IFTS at Deci in Sardinia in an interim arrangement that conveniently ossifies into permanence.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,886
    Eabhal said:
    Those “No Kings” protests must be a serious concern.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986
    Sandpit said:

    Wow, men’s and women’s world records in the London marathon. Two hours finally goes in a competition!

    Congratulations Sebastian Sawe and Tigst Assefa.

    Not sure I could run half a marathon in two hours.

    I don’t think I could even watch his marathon race in under 2 hours… not by the time I’d paused the telly to get snacks…
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    edited April 26

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    That could/should be fatal no?

    If the Government line is now that it wasn't a meeting, Starmer must withdraw that answer 'at the earliest opportunity'. Test of Reform as they possibly quite like Palantir and their money. But Kemi and the Tories should aim to blow this wide open.
    Of the many things that have been described as fatal for Starmer’s premiership, I think this one is a long way down the list of actually being fatal.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    That could/should be fatal no?

    If the Government line is now that it wasn't a meeting, Starmer must withdraw that answer 'at the earliest opportunity'. Test of Reform as they possibly quite like Palantir and their money. But Kemi and the Tories should aim to blow this wide open.
    Of the many things that have been described as fatal for Starmer’s premiership, I think this one is a long way down the list of actually being fatal.
    At worst it will require a minor apology. However for a man who made a huge deal about rule following and being foresenic about everything, he sure doesn't half mess up basic record keeping. This is far from the first time he hasn't registered things correctly.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    edited April 26
    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,502

    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character
    2) He was previously shot and nearly killed

    A lot of people seem to have some amnesia towards the second point. Anyway as much as I criticise the BBC I'll happily rely on Gary Donoghue's verdict for now. (He was actually there).

    I think most people here don’t care about point 2
    True I don’t care and neither does most of the world . Sadly an innocent person lost his life . If Trump had been wiped out most people would hold street parties .

    Trump is true evil and a stain on humanity .
    It could have been catastrophic for the United States. Once you accept that murder is an acceptable part of the political process, where does it end?
    Trump assassinated several Iranian leaders, no?
    He incited a mob to lynch his own Vice President!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    Strange events in Doncaster. Reform Councillors trying to undermine the new airport supported by the Council.

    Legal action is starting up, and the Reform Councillors have delayed the relevant Council debates until after the Election.

    Fun fun fun in the sun sun sun !

    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/doncaster-sheffield-airport-council-boss-threatens-legal-action-against-top-reform-councillors-7437834
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553
    edited April 26
    A

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The Deep State exists. In a way. It’s just the aggregate momentum of 100ks of people, doing things as they have always been done.

    So when you try and change the direction of The Ship Of State, it’s like driving a supertanker.

    It you propose something, hundreds of reasons not to do it will appear. And hundreds of side projects will accrete on your project.

    Which is where political skill comes in.

    You spend political capital to reduce the resistance to your project to get it done and you prune the side projects to keep your project viable.

    But that takes skill and effort.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,251

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The phrase is a useful one since I don't know which spy agencies would be responsible for investigating an assassination attempt of this type.

    The fact you've leaped on the wording and failed to address the point is telling.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Any idea where the factory making Iskander ballistic missiles is located? (Although I think some of those are now coming from North Korea.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    That could/should be fatal no?

    If the Government line is now that it wasn't a meeting, Starmer must withdraw that answer 'at the earliest opportunity'. Test of Reform as they possibly quite like Palantir and their money. But Kemi and the Tories should aim to blow this wide open.
    Of the many things that have been described as fatal for Starmer’s premiership, I think this one is a long way down the list of actually being fatal.
    Hmmm.

    It could be a significant straw. Palantir is particularly toxic. The PM having a non-meeting with them, then misleading parliament will go do very badly. Especially in the Labour Party.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    I think that is the agenda for Europe (including Ukraine) which moved forward significantly in the last fortnight - the objective is the capability to render the USA irrelevant as an essential partner.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986

    A

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The Deep State exists. In a way. It’s just the aggregate momentum of 100ks of people, doing things as they have always been done.

    So when you try and change the direction of The Ship Of State, it’s like driving a supertanker.

    It you propose something, hundreds of reasons not to do it will appear. And hundreds of side projects will accrete on your project.

    Which is where political skill comes in.

    You spend political capital to reduce the resistance to your project to get it done and you prune the side projects to keep your project viable.

    But that takes skill and effort.
    Organisational momentum is a thing. Casting it as “the Deep State” is a right-wing conspiracy theory.

    (Supertankers can turn pretty quickly, so it’s a bad analogy.)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The phrase is a useful one since I don't know which spy agencies would be responsible for investigating an assassination attempt of this type.

    The fact you've leaped on the wording and failed to address the point is telling.
    How long have you been on PB? Leaping on the wording is the official athletics event of PB.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    That could/should be fatal no?

    If the Government line is now that it wasn't a meeting, Starmer must withdraw that answer 'at the earliest opportunity'. Test of Reform as they possibly quite like Palantir and their money. But Kemi and the Tories should aim to blow this wide open.
    Of the many things that have been described as fatal for Starmer’s premiership, I think this one is a long way down the list of actually being fatal.
    Hmmm.

    It could be a significant straw. Palantir is particularly toxic. The PM having a non-meeting with them, then misleading parliament will go do very badly. Especially in the Labour Party.
    There do appear to be a number of conspiracy theories from Labour and Green supporters around Palantir’s NHS contract.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    Sandpit said:

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    That could/should be fatal no?

    If the Government line is now that it wasn't a meeting, Starmer must withdraw that answer 'at the earliest opportunity'. Test of Reform as they possibly quite like Palantir and their money. But Kemi and the Tories should aim to blow this wide open.
    Of the many things that have been described as fatal for Starmer’s premiership, I think this one is a long way down the list of actually being fatal.
    Hmmm.

    It could be a significant straw. Palantir is particularly toxic. The PM having a non-meeting with them, then misleading parliament will go do very badly. Especially in the Labour Party.
    There do appear to be a number of conspiracy theories from Labour and Green supporters around Palantir’s NHS contract.
    Its Carole Conspiracy's new hobby horse.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character
    2) He was previously shot and nearly killed

    A lot of people seem to have some amnesia towards the second point. Anyway as much as I criticise the BBC I'll happily rely on Gary Donoghue's verdict for now. (He was actually there).

    I think most people here don’t care about point 2
    True I don’t care and neither does most of the world . Sadly an innocent person lost his life . If Trump had been wiped out most people would hold street parties .

    Trump is true evil and a stain on humanity .
    I agree entirely with your attitude to Trump (and would add that his reflexive and absolute mendacity makes it impossible to trust any account that comes from the administration).

    But equally, any political assassination is a disaster in general, and in this particular case would trigger an appalling backlash. That's not to be wished for, however much we might otherwise be inclined to regret the decline in US marksmanship.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,502
    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    Depends on what they were serving. If it was a decent pud I'd finish it first.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,886
    Awkward

    https://x.com/lbc/status/2048342981036404934?s=46

    ‘The Prime Minister says he “never turns” on his staff and “always carries the can.” Would you like to repeat that?’

    @Lewis_Goodall puts an old clip of Keir Starmer to his Chief Secretary, Darren Jones.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960

    Awkward

    https://x.com/lbc/status/2048342981036404934?s=46

    ‘The Prime Minister says he “never turns” on his staff and “always carries the can.” Would you like to repeat that?’

    @Lewis_Goodall puts an old clip of Keir Starmer to his Chief Secretary, Darren Jones.

    If even Lewis Goodall is sticking the boot in time is up...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    Funnily enough, given how unpopular journalists and the media are, who's to say they weren't the real target?

    I'm being provocative, it's a little difficult to believe a Trump supporting MSM hater would do that whilst he was in the room.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,251

    OK, we need a clear answer from Government on this now. On Palintir Darren Jones just said “this was not a meeting in the traditional sense”. Keir Starmer specifically told the House on Monday “that was a routine meeting”.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2048358445594608100?s=20

    Due process was followed, the legal definition of meeting was not met, I was not informed of anything further....pressue was not applied, because the legal definition of pressue is not clearly defined, there are different types of pressure.

    That could/should be fatal no?

    If the Government line is now that it wasn't a meeting, Starmer must withdraw that answer 'at the earliest opportunity'. Test of Reform as they possibly quite like Palantir and their money. But Kemi and the Tories should aim to blow this wide open.
    Of the many things that have been described as fatal for Starmer’s premiership, I think this one is a long way down the list of actually being fatal.
    Hmmm.

    It could be a significant straw. Palantir is particularly toxic. The PM having a non-meeting with them, then misleading parliament will go do very badly. Especially in the Labour Party.
    Starmer seems to be providing Kemi with boxes and boxes of delicious chocolates to talk about at the moment.

    There's Hermer and his work with him.

    There's another story I won't discuss from SKS's past career, because to do so would be in violation of site rules.

    And there's this Palantir thing that looks like lying to cover up potentially very dodgy business dealings.

    1. Starmer gets Mandelson appointed against all the objections.
    2. Palantir are a Mandelson client.
    3. Mandelson arranges a meeting between the three of them - seemingly in pretty easy violation of the so-called 'mitigations' put in place to make his appointment approvable.
    4. Palantir gets millions of pounds of UK work in an unprecedented and controversial deal.

    Is any of that wrong? I will happily withdraw if it is.

    As I said here last week - dodgy people do not get appointed 'because they good chaps really who know how to deal with other dodgy people and are dodgy in the national interest'. They get appointed BY dodgy people TO do dodgy things, OR because they have the goods on their appointers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The phrase is a useful one since I don't know which spy agencies would be responsible for investigating an assassination attempt of this type.

    The fact you've leaped on the wording and failed to address the point is telling.
    The lead investigators are probably the FBI, although there were probably half a dozen different police agencies involved in the event, plus a number of private security protecting specific individuals among the guests.

    The security at the door was likely supervised by the US Secret Service, with local DC cops and hotel security checking guests.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    Depends on what they were serving. If it was a decent pud I'd finish it first.
    There’s some videos of guests leaving with bottles of wine in hand. One assumes they weren’t Jacob’s Creek.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814
    MattW said:

    Strange events in Doncaster. Reform Councillors trying to undermine the new airport supported by the Council.

    Legal action is starting up, and the Reform Councillors have delayed the relevant Council debates until after the Election.

    Fun fun fun in the sun sun sun !

    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/doncaster-sheffield-airport-council-boss-threatens-legal-action-against-top-reform-councillors-7437834

    Sounds like the councillors are alleging corruption, or hinting it, and that causes ussues with consideration of the precise wording even if other parts could be discussed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239
    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character
    2) He was previously shot and nearly killed

    A lot of people seem to have some amnesia towards the second point. Anyway as much as I criticise the BBC I'll happily rely on Gary Donoghue's verdict for now. (He was actually there).

    I think most people here don’t care about point 2
    True I don’t care and neither does most of the world . Sadly an innocent person lost his life . If Trump had been wiped out most people would hold street parties .

    Trump is true evil and a stain on humanity .
    I agree entirely with your attitude to Trump (and would add that his reflexive and absolute mendacity makes it impossible to trust any account that comes from the administration).

    But equally, any political assassination is a disaster in general, and in this particular case would trigger an appalling backlash. That's not to be wished for, however much we might otherwise be inclined to regret the decline in US marksmanship.
    According to US life tables, Trump had a ~5% chance of dying in his 80th year, rising to ~5.5% for his next year and ~6% the year after that. So there's a slightly better than 1-in-40 chance that he dies before the midterms.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693

    On the slightly weird Trump assassination attempt...

    The attempt certainly meets a Trump agenda. So yes, you need a patsy to try. But, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that an attempt gets discovered - and with Trumps blessing, gets to run its course of shots being fired (as long as none actually hit him, natch). If everyone knows the attempt is going to happen - and is going to be foiled - then you can imagine why the entire Administration was in attendance.

    Pure speculation.

    That's pretty well the theory of the Reichstag fire.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814
    edited April 26

    A

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The Deep State exists. In a way. It’s just the aggregate momentum of 100ks of people, doing things as they have always been done.

    So when you try and change the direction of The Ship Of State, it’s like driving a supertanker.

    It you propose something, hundreds of reasons not to do it will appear. And hundreds of side projects will accrete on your project.

    Which is where political skill comes in.

    You spend political capital to reduce the resistance to your project to get it done and you prune the side projects to keep your project viable.

    But that takes skill and effort.
    Organisational momentum is a thing. Casting it as “the Deep State” is a right-wing conspiracy theory.

    (Supertankers can turn pretty quickly, so it’s a bad analogy.)
    Exactly. References to deep state go well beyond a belief in institutional inertia or obstructionism.

    Even at local council level you'll find councillors surprised the law or process means things take time and start inventing conspiracies about officials - people don't like being held up, even for good reasons.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    edited April 26
    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    There is still some positive news out there.

    I've posted occasional clips about an acquaintance on Vancouver Island who has organised via Social Media in his spare time a weekend event for people to visit his city from the US, partly with the intention of helping prospective immigrants to see if they like it.

    It is happening this weekend. Here is a clip from the organised gathering, dropped in at the start of a short welcome speech. 1000 people turned up, including from all over the USA.

    One stat: since last June British Columbia have had 3000+ healthcare workers from the USA apply to come and work there.

    https://youtu.be/CQ2vGOqCSsw?t=1128

    "Family photo":


    Newspaper report:
    https://nanaimonewsnow.com/2026/04/25/its-not-a-small-thing-your-presence-here-over-1000-flock-to-second-nanaimo-infusion/

    While I applaud the general tenor of this I do have an issue with the “let’s move abroad because things are politically suboptimal” movement on both sides. Applying the categorical imperative, what happens if everyone does it? Let’s imagine, for example, that Farage gets in an every left liberal and socialist in the UK moves to Ireland. On the other side of the political fence, how’s it working out for those who went to Dubai because of Reeves and Starmer? A couple I know from Munich have a second home in Herne Bay, partly because they ain’t thrilled by what’s happening in Germany, which tickles me when I read FBPE Twitter.

    If your life is at stake by all means run but if it’s not then the moral thing to do is stay and try to change things. You don’t win by quitting.
    The main positive I draw is that civil society can still work. That's what we need in the UK to marginalise our own politics of fear.

    I think it is a combination of job markets and politics. Canada has a pressure on health care staff like other countries. But the USA regime is far more vicious to than many are familiar with (not including you in that). I think Canada has a far greater awareness. Perhaps our Govt here do, but as individuals we tend not to have, and the Govt here keep very quiet.

    It is instructive that in Europe systems are being built in which will allow the USA to be circumvented.

    If Canada can sell itself to people wanting young families by offering an environment to grow their families where their 5 and 6 year olds will not have to be trained what to do when a man with an assault rifle enters the school to shoot them, and receive decent healthcare, and live 3 or 4 years longer on average, then that seems fair to me. As does fear of a militarised police force, or States making it illegal for medics or insurance companies to give decent healthcare to women.

    That's just normal immigration and marketing. But I think there is also for some a situation where they are effectively refugees without the name.

    If I draw a comparison with the UK, the best comparison is perhaps people leaving Hong Kong because of the regime there.

    Here's an introduction to the event from the organisers, rather than the Provincial Leader.
    https://youtu.be/CQ2vGOqCSsw?t=853
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,849
    edited April 26

    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character
    2) He was previously shot and nearly killed

    A lot of people seem to have some amnesia towards the second point. Anyway as much as I criticise the BBC I'll happily rely on Gary Donoghue's verdict for now. (He was actually there).

    I think most people here don’t care about point 2
    True I don’t care and neither does most of the world . Sadly an innocent person lost his life . If Trump had been wiped out most people would hold street parties .

    Trump is true evil and a stain on humanity .
    I agree entirely with your attitude to Trump (and would add that his reflexive and absolute mendacity makes it impossible to trust any account that comes from the administration).

    But equally, any political assassination is a disaster in general, and in this particular case would trigger an appalling backlash. That's not to be wished for, however much we might otherwise be inclined to regret the decline in US marksmanship.
    According to US life tables, Trump had a ~5% chance of dying in his 80th year, rising to ~5.5% for his next year and ~6% the year after that. So there's a slightly better than 1-in-40 chance that he dies before the midterms.
    Nature has its own assassins.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,366
    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    What was going on in the room was people being taken to safety (in a rather odd way but that's another kettle of fish). The would-be assassin never made it as far as the ballroom with Trump and the journalists, having been stopped in the foyer.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,268
    Sandpit said:

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    I’m not sure that any such explanation is required. There are plenty of account of extremely minor wounds from near misses by bullets, dating back to the earliest days of firearms.
    One photographer got the impossible image of the bullet whizzing past his head.

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/08/13/us/politics/13election-live-photo-assess/13election-live-photo-assess-superJumbo-v2.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
    Looks like a chemtrail ;-)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693
    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553
    edited April 26

    A

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The Deep State exists. In a way. It’s just the aggregate momentum of 100ks of people, doing things as they have always been done.

    So when you try and change the direction of The Ship Of State, it’s like driving a supertanker.

    It you propose something, hundreds of reasons not to do it will appear. And hundreds of side projects will accrete on your project.

    Which is where political skill comes in.

    You spend political capital to reduce the resistance to your project to get it done and you prune the side projects to keep your project viable.

    But that takes skill and effort.
    Organisational momentum is a thing. Casting it as “the Deep State” is a right-wing conspiracy theory.

    (Supertankers can turn pretty quickly, so it’s a bad analogy.)
    Quickly? I’ve driven one in the simulator. Minutes to get onto a new course…
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    edited April 26
    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553
    kle4 said:

    A

    ...

    It's one thing to wake up and find there's been another firearms incident in the vicinity of Donald Trump. It's quite another to find pb in full on conspiracy mode. I'll make two points:

    1) Trump is an incredibly dodgy character

    Dodgy enough to have had the whole thing staged?
    Well we're at a very early stage with this one. I have serious doubts that it was staged. But I suppose it is more plausible than the actual shooting in 2024 being staged.
    I haven't looked into this for a while, last time I did so I thought a plausible explanation was that no bullet had hit him directly but one had hit the teleprompter or some other shatterable hard object close to him and a shard from that had cut his ear ?
    Trump as candidate certainly didn't have the collusion of the Government Agencies that you would need to pull off a false flag attack. They would simply detect that it was bullshit and expose him. Even if it was arranged by subordinates without his knowledge, it would have been disastrous for his campaign. I'm not sure even as President he has the support where needed to pull it off. Who in the deep state wants to help Trump enough to do something like this? I would suggest nobody.
    The deep state? LOL. If the deep state exists, why isn’t it doing a better job of stopping Trump’s madness and corruption?
    The Deep State exists. In a way. It’s just the aggregate momentum of 100ks of people, doing things as they have always been done.

    So when you try and change the direction of The Ship Of State, it’s like driving a supertanker.

    It you propose something, hundreds of reasons not to do it will appear. And hundreds of side projects will accrete on your project.

    Which is where political skill comes in.

    You spend political capital to reduce the resistance to your project to get it done and you prune the side projects to keep your project viable.

    But that takes skill and effort.
    Organisational momentum is a thing. Casting it as “the Deep State” is a right-wing conspiracy theory.

    (Supertankers can turn pretty quickly, so it’s a bad analogy.)
    Exactly. References to deep state go well beyond a belief in institutional inertia or obstructionism.

    Even at local council level you'll find councillors surprised the law or process means things take time and start inventing conspiracies about officials - people don't like being held up, even for good reasons.
    Quite

    It’s not that the resistance to change doesn’t happen - it’s just a function of how many humans are involved.

    People selling it as a conspiracy tend to be rather incurious about how anything really works.

    The sort of people who trot out “they destroyed all the plans for the Saturn V moon rocket”.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    What was going on in the room was people being taken to safety (in a rather odd way but that's another kettle of fish). The would-be assassin never made it as far as the ballroom with Trump and the journalists, having been stopped in the foyer.
    We’ll probably find out more in the coming hours as the US wakes up, but it does appear that the gunman was stopped short of the ballroom itself, having rushed through the checkpoint at the entrance after seemingly emerging from a back-of-house service door.

    It looked a little chaotic, but there was some order to getting the top table out first, followed by various government officials under USSS protection, followed by guests with local police or private security details.

    Veep’s USSS agent was pretty good, Vance was first off the stage after being grabbed by the lapels and dragged off his chair! Trump took a few seconds longer to move, with several agents around him, as presumably he’s not quite as agile and different protocols apply.

    It’s interesting that this is one of very few events in a private venue where Trump and Vance are both in attendance. Presumably there was a ‘designated survivor’ from the Cabinet not in attendance.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,924
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Bit like the UK then?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,251
    edited April 26

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    edited April 26

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,336
    Battlebus said:

    Guests and journalists alike began to speculate about security. Upon arriving at the Hilton, I had remarked to a colleague just how light the measures were. No ID checks. No pat-downs on entry. A simple flash of a cardboard ticket, the exact same from the 2025 event, was all that was needed to enter.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2026/04/26/donald-trump-white-house-correspondents-dinner/ (£££)

    US Secret Service is part of the (unfunded?) DHS. So what do you think Trump will say next about the Democrats stalling the funding?
    Is it true that this is the first WH correspondents dinner Trump graciously agreed to attend? With his entire inner circle?🤔
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    It's eating the seedcorn. It would be disastrous.

    I know Britain is skint, and there's only really a variety of bad and worse choices left, but it speaks volumes that politicians would rather do something like this, inflicting long term damage on the country, rather than make the case for ending the triple lock, increasing property taxation, etc.
    They need to get elected so go for the easiest path. Telling hard truths is beyond most.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,251
    edited April 26

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK.
    It is not just poor funding - it is deliberately divisive, sectional, and anti-nation funding. You don't get 'the odd dodgy one' - applicants must show how they are furthering the DEI cause within their application.

    I don't know whether the technology grants are as badly misdirected as the arts ones, but I strongly suspect that they are.

    Either way, the 20% is waaaaay better spent on defence, where it might end up leading to some actual research and innovation. Providing defence spending is also reformed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,239
    edited April 26
    Ukraine is claiming to have hit a MIG-31 on the ground and three Russian naval vessels in port during attacks on Crimea last night.

    They hit naval vessels in Sevastopol recently, but I think only did minor damage to them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    edited April 26
    sarissa said:

    Battlebus said:

    Guests and journalists alike began to speculate about security. Upon arriving at the Hilton, I had remarked to a colleague just how light the measures were. No ID checks. No pat-downs on entry. A simple flash of a cardboard ticket, the exact same from the 2025 event, was all that was needed to enter.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2026/04/26/donald-trump-white-house-correspondents-dinner/ (£££)

    US Secret Service is part of the (unfunded?) DHS. So what do you think Trump will say next about the Democrats stalling the funding?
    Is it true that this is the first WH correspondents dinner Trump graciously agreed to attend? With his entire inner circle?🤔
    Yes that’s true. He’s always boycotted it since 2016, not wanting to hang out with the “Fake News Media”.

    He said last night that they will reschedule for some time in the next month.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195
    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    Grab the wine seemed to be on some people’s minds
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Bit like the UK then?
    We’ll never get the answer, for obvious reasons, but one suspects that there’s little beyond the QRA Typhoons in terms of active incoming air defences. Perhaps they have a couple of Patriot batteries somewhere near Lossie and somewhere near London.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    It's eating the seedcorn. It would be disastrous.

    I know Britain is skint, and there's only really a variety of bad and worse choices left, but it speaks volumes that politicians would rather do something like this, inflicting long term damage on the country, rather than make the case for ending the triple lock, increasing property taxation, etc.
    Agreed.

    The scrabbling around for a bit of short term cash, irrespective of the damage, is among the reasons government dues stuff do badly (the last decade or so of defence procurement is a good example).

    There are really only a few significant things - UK growth; the cost of our borrowing; the level of taxation; health and social security spending - which really matter.

    This policy threatens a future disproportionate effect on the first of those.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    Repurpose the cash from this witless drivel to something worthwhile ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,195
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    What was going on in the room was people being taken to safety (in a rather odd way but that's another kettle of fish). The would-be assassin never made it as far as the ballroom with Trump and the journalists, having been stopped in the foyer.
    We’ll probably find out more in the coming hours as the US wakes up, but it does appear that the gunman was stopped short of the ballroom itself, having rushed through the checkpoint at the entrance after seemingly emerging from a back-of-house service door.

    It looked a little chaotic, but there was some order to getting the top table out first, followed by various government officials under USSS protection, followed by guests with local police or private security details.

    Veep’s USSS agent was pretty good, Vance was first off the stage after being grabbed by the lapels and dragged off his chair! Trump took a few seconds longer to move, with several agents around him, as presumably he’s not quite as agile and different protocols apply.

    It’s interesting that this is one of very few events in a private venue where Trump and Vance are both in attendance. Presumably there was a ‘designated survivor’ from the Cabinet not in attendance.
    Hesgeth ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    edited April 26

    Eabhal said:
    Those “No Kings” protests must be a serious concern.
    Ironically those protestors would prefer King Charles to their own President. Maybe a few diehard Democrats will not be too enthusiastic this year about remembering a War with the UK and Declaration of Independence from a nation now led by woke Starmer while they have nationalist right Trump as their head of state
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,524
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    What was going on in the room was people being taken to safety (in a rather odd way but that's another kettle of fish). The would-be assassin never made it as far as the ballroom with Trump and the journalists, having been stopped in the foyer.
    We’ll probably find out more in the coming hours as the US wakes up, but it does appear that the gunman was stopped short of the ballroom itself, having rushed through the checkpoint at the entrance after seemingly emerging from a back-of-house service door.

    It looked a little chaotic, but there was some order to getting the top table out first, followed by various government officials under USSS protection, followed by guests with local police or private security details.

    Veep’s USSS agent was pretty good, Vance was first off the stage after being grabbed by the lapels and dragged off his chair! Trump took a few seconds longer to move, with several agents around him, as presumably he’s not quite as agile and different protocols apply.

    It’s interesting that this is one of very few events in a private venue where Trump and Vance are both in attendance. Presumably there was a ‘designated survivor’ from the Cabinet not in attendance.
    Hesgeth ?
    Whiskey Pete was at the dinner. Here he is grinning like a muppet

    https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/2048338503780663729?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,924
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Bit like the UK then?
    We’ll never get the answer, for obvious reasons, but one suspects that there’s little beyond the QRA Typhoons in terms of active incoming air defences. Perhaps they have a couple of Patriot batteries somewhere near Lossie and somewhere near London.
    If we got attacked by Drones it would be in the thousands as Russia does in Ukraine to overwhelm defence systems that actually work about 80% of the time. A few Patriot batteries are going to make next to no difference at all, as the US found in your neck of the wood.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,251
    edited April 26

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    It's eating the seedcorn. It would be disastrous.

    I know Britain is skint, and there's only really a variety of bad and worse choices left, but it speaks volumes that politicians would rather do something like this, inflicting long term damage on the country, rather than make the case for ending the triple lock, increasing property taxation, etc.
    In more 'seedcorn' news (AI).

    "Pregnant Men: An International Exploration of Trans Male Experiences" – £668,244
    A four-year study on transgender men’s reproductive experiences, also funded by the AHRC, criticised for prioritizing identity-focused research over traditional scientific inquiry.

    "Decolonising the Museum: Digital Repatriation of the Gaidinliu Collection" – £805,769
    Focuses on digitally returning cultural artifacts from the UK to India, part of a broader "decolonising" initiative questioned for its cost and practical value.

    "Comics and Race in Latin America" – £759,293
    An AHRC-funded study on racial representation in Latin American comics, highlighted as an example of disproportionate funding for niche cultural analysis.

    How dare Kemi suggest re-allocating money away from such gold to mere baubles like bullets and things to 'defend the country' - Father forgive her.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Still huge coverage for Putin's villas though.

    Costing Russia untold billions in lost facilities/exports. But Putin's golden emporium is safe. Phew, eh?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK.
    It is not just poor funding - it is deliberately divisive, sectional, and anti-nation funding. You don't get 'the odd dodgy one' - applicants must show how they are furthering the DEI cause within their application.

    I don't know whether the technology grants are as badly misdirected as the arts ones, but I strongly suspect that they are.

    Either way, the 20% is waaaaay better spent on defence, where it might end up leading to some actual research and innovation. Providing defence spending is also reformed.
    The Ajax light tank was about to join the conversation but it unfortunately broke down on the way.
    Ajax is, among other things, about a lack of research and experimentation.

    They went straight to production because they claimed to be able to create the final design from some very unrepresentative test vehicles.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    Convenient..

    Forces minister Al Carns to miss key vote on Troubles prosecutions
    The government’s most senior veteran will be absent from the ‘lawfare’ debate

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/al-carns-minister-northern-ireland-troubles-p6gxxmd9f
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    sarissa said:

    Battlebus said:

    Guests and journalists alike began to speculate about security. Upon arriving at the Hilton, I had remarked to a colleague just how light the measures were. No ID checks. No pat-downs on entry. A simple flash of a cardboard ticket, the exact same from the 2025 event, was all that was needed to enter.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2026/04/26/donald-trump-white-house-correspondents-dinner/ (£££)

    US Secret Service is part of the (unfunded?) DHS. So what do you think Trump will say next about the Democrats stalling the funding?
    Is it true that this is the first WH correspondents dinner Trump graciously agreed to attend? With his entire inner circle?🤔
    Presumably Trump has no problem with Heads of Government being killed or seized, since he does it so often himself.

    Sauce for the goose ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,502
    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am always struck by the number of people's who first reaction in modern world is to start filming when these shooting take place. There was the thing the other day at the templates in Latin America.

    If I hear gunshots the last thing I am thinking about is going live on social media or getting a reel for the gram.

    Even in a room full of journalists, it was quite amazing to see how many people had their phones out recording what was going on.

    I’d be hiding under the table until a cop came to get me!
    What was going on in the room was people being taken to safety (in a rather odd way but that's another kettle of fish). The would-be assassin never made it as far as the ballroom with Trump and the journalists, having been stopped in the foyer.
    We’ll probably find out more in the coming hours as the US wakes up, but it does appear that the gunman was stopped short of the ballroom itself, having rushed through the checkpoint at the entrance after seemingly emerging from a back-of-house service door.

    It looked a little chaotic, but there was some order to getting the top table out first, followed by various government officials under USSS protection, followed by guests with local police or private security details.

    Veep’s USSS agent was pretty good, Vance was first off the stage after being grabbed by the lapels and dragged off his chair! Trump took a few seconds longer to move, with several agents around him, as presumably he’s not quite as agile and different protocols apply.

    It’s interesting that this is one of very few events in a private venue where Trump and Vance are both in attendance. Presumably there was a ‘designated survivor’ from the Cabinet not in attendance.
    Hesgeth ?
    Whiskey Pete was at the dinner. Here he is grinning like a muppet

    https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/2048338503780663729?s=20
    Even allowing for the amount of free booze he'd necked, I have Miss Piggy on the line and she is threatening to sue you for that slur on muppets.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    Repurpose the cash from this witless drivel to something worthwhile ?
    No. Don’t be stupid. Roll into it

    Q. “We gave you £800,000 to research into how Will Shakespeare was excessively white, male and hetro. Why have you produced a working prototype of an infantry fighting vehicle?”

    A. “It’s A tribute to Dali. Challenging your expectations in surealist form.”

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    It's eating the seedcorn. It would be disastrous.

    I know Britain is skint, and there's only really a variety of bad and worse choices left, but it speaks volumes that politicians would rather do something like this, inflicting long term damage on the country, rather than make the case for ending the triple lock, increasing property taxation, etc.
    In more 'seedcorn' news (AI).

    "Pregnant Men: An International Exploration of Trans Male Experiences" – £668,244
    A four-year study on transgender men’s reproductive experiences, also funded by the AHRC, criticised for prioritizing identity-focused research over traditional scientific inquiry.

    "Decolonising the Museum: Digital Repatriation of the Gaidinliu Collection" – £805,769
    Focuses on digitally returning cultural artifacts from the UK to India, part of a broader "decolonising" initiative questioned for its cost and practical value.

    "Comics and Race in Latin America" – £759,293
    An AHRC-funded study on racial representation in Latin American comics, highlighted as an example of disproportionate funding for niche cultural analysis.

    How dare Kemi suggest re-allocating money away from such gold to mere baubles like bullets and things to 'defend the country' - Father forgive her.
    Straight out of the DOGE playbook - using a few examples representing 0.05% of spending to advocate "suspending all funding".

    You are a fool.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,819

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    It's eating the seedcorn. It would be disastrous.

    I know Britain is skint, and there's only really a variety of bad and worse choices left, but it speaks volumes that politicians would rather do something like this, inflicting long term damage on the country, rather than make the case for ending the triple lock, increasing property taxation, etc.
    In more 'seedcorn' news (AI).
    [...]
    "Decolonising the Museum: Digital Repatriation of the Gaidinliu Collection" – £805,769
    Focuses on digitally returning cultural artifacts from the UK to India, part of a broader "decolonising" initiative questioned for its cost and practical value.
    As PB's only Indian-born... PBer, I'd not even heard of this collection!

    Still, I suppose Russia could "digitally decolonise" eastern Ukraine, and Israel could "digitally decolonise" the West Bank?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Bit like the UK then?
    We’ll never get the answer, for obvious reasons, but one suspects that there’s little beyond the QRA Typhoons in terms of active incoming air defences. Perhaps they have a couple of Patriot batteries somewhere near Lossie and somewhere near London.
    If we got attacked by Drones it would be in the thousands as Russia does in Ukraine to overwhelm defence systems that actually work about 80% of the time. A few Patriot batteries are going to make next to no difference at all, as the US found in your neck of the wood.
    Oh if Russia sends a hundred Shahed drones the UK is screwed. They’d quickly be left with nothing except shooting them from the ground with shotguns.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Bit like the UK then?
    We’ll never get the answer, for obvious reasons, but one suspects that there’s little beyond the QRA Typhoons in terms of active incoming air defences. Perhaps they have a couple of Patriot batteries somewhere near Lossie and somewhere near London.
    If we got attacked by Drones it would be in the thousands as Russia does in Ukraine to overwhelm defence systems that actually work about 80% of the time. A few Patriot batteries are going to make next to no difference at all, as the US found in your neck of the wood.
    The question is to what extent are we collaborating with the Ukrainians on this stuff. I'd like to think we're in there but resourcing is tight.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,251
    edited April 26

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
    This is an interesting 2026 piece that the AI used as a source, on the BMJ website:

    Before Christmas, UKRI set out how it would allocate its four year £38.6bn allocation from the government to the various councils through three priority “buckets.”1 There would be £8bn for targeted research and development “addressing national and societal priorities,” £7bn to commercialise cutting edge technologies, and £14bn for what it described as “curiosity driven research.”
    https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s348

    So, if anything like true, this means less than 20% of their budget is the vital 'seedcorn' that everyone is wibbling about, with the vast majority given over to utter pap that is at best wasteful and at worst harmful. They should have 80% of their budget removed, not retained!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,924
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Bit like the UK then?
    We’ll never get the answer, for obvious reasons, but one suspects that there’s little beyond the QRA Typhoons in terms of active incoming air defences. Perhaps they have a couple of Patriot batteries somewhere near Lossie and somewhere near London.
    If we got attacked by Drones it would be in the thousands as Russia does in Ukraine to overwhelm defence systems that actually work about 80% of the time. A few Patriot batteries are going to make next to no difference at all, as the US found in your neck of the wood.
    Oh if Russia sends a hundred Shahed drones the UK is screwed. They’d quickly be left with nothing except shooting them from the ground with shotguns.
    I saw an incredible piece of film in which a housewife in Ukraine had mounted a shotgun on a drone platform and managed to shoot down a Shahed with it. Not sure we have that level of ingenuity anymore.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    edited April 26

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
    This is an interesting 2026 piece that the AI used as a source, on the BMJ website:

    Before Christmas, UKRI set out how it would allocate its four year £38.6bn allocation from the government to the various councils through three priority “buckets.”1 There would be £8bn for targeted research and development “addressing national and societal priorities,” £7bn to commercialise cutting edge technologies, and £14bn for what it described as “curiosity driven research.”
    https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s348

    So, if anything like true, this means less than 20% of their budget is the vital 'seedcorn' that everyone is wibbling about, with the vast majority given over to utter pap that is at best wasteful and at worst harmful. They should have 80% of their budget removed, not retained!
    "Curosity driven research" is what PhD / Postdocs are funded via. FYI, the arts funding compared to the rest, where most of the total BS stuff you mentioned comes from is a tiny fraction of the £10bn a year, it gets like £80 million a year.

    There is definitely nonsense grants for research, but just chopping 20% won't solve that. Its like when the BBC have their funding restricted by the government with no other conditions, they don't chop the BS. What it requires is much more targetted focus on what UKRI should be doing, not just chop 20%.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553
    edited April 26

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    Repurpose the cash from this witless drivel to something worthwhile ?
    No. Don’t be stupid. Roll into it

    Q. “We gave you £800,000 to research into how Will Shakespeare was excessively white, male and hetro. Why have you produced a working prototype of an infantry fighting vehicle?”

    A. “It’s A tribute to Dali. Challenging your expectations in surealist form.”

    “We gave you £150 million for a project to investigate the effects of decolonisation. You used the money to invade a group of islands in Pacific and declare them part of the New British Empire”

    A - “Well, we didn’t have a suitable case for decolonisation. So the obvious answer was to create one.”
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    It's eating the seedcorn. It would be disastrous.

    I know Britain is skint, and there's only really a variety of bad and worse choices left, but it speaks volumes that politicians would rather do something like this, inflicting long term damage on the country, rather than make the case for ending the triple lock, increasing property taxation, etc.
    In more 'seedcorn' news (AI).

    "Pregnant Men: An International Exploration of Trans Male Experiences" – £668,244
    A four-year study on transgender men’s reproductive experiences, also funded by the AHRC, criticised for prioritizing identity-focused research over traditional scientific inquiry.

    "Decolonising the Museum: Digital Repatriation of the Gaidinliu Collection" – £805,769
    Focuses on digitally returning cultural artifacts from the UK to India, part of a broader "decolonising" initiative questioned for its cost and practical value.

    "Comics and Race in Latin America" – £759,293
    An AHRC-funded study on racial representation in Latin American comics, highlighted as an example of disproportionate funding for niche cultural analysis.

    How dare Kemi suggest re-allocating money away from such gold to mere baubles like bullets and things to 'defend the country' - Father forgive her.
    Straight out of the DOGE playbook - using a few examples representing 0.05% of spending to advocate "suspending all funding".

    You are a fool.
    Marxist ideologues have done huge damage to the humanities.

    Apparently Frank Kermode spent his final years holding secret seminars with students who actually liked novels as opposed to those who thought the entire purpose of literature was marxist deconstruction.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,924

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
    This is an interesting 2026 piece that the AI used as a source, on the BMJ website:

    Before Christmas, UKRI set out how it would allocate its four year £38.6bn allocation from the government to the various councils through three priority “buckets.”1 There would be £8bn for targeted research and development “addressing national and societal priorities,” £7bn to commercialise cutting edge technologies, and £14bn for what it described as “curiosity driven research.”
    https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s348

    So, if anything like true, this means less than 20% of their budget is the vital 'seedcorn' that everyone is wibbling about, with the vast majority given over to utter pap that is at best wasteful and at worst harmful. They should have 80% of their budget removed, not retained!
    "Curosity driven research" is what PhD / Postdocs are funded via. FYI, the arts funding compared to the rest, where most of the total BS stuff you mentioned comes from is a tiny fraction of the £40bn, it gets like £80 million a year.

    There is definitely nonsense grants for research, but just chopping 20% won't solve that. Its like when the BBC have their funding restricted by the government with no other conditions, they don't chop the BS. What it requires is much more targetted focus on what UKRI should be doing, not just chop 20%.
    Sounds like £80m too much. And, frankly, I worry about the judgement of someone who thought any of that nonsense was a good idea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,693

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
    This is an interesting 2026 piece that the AI used as a source, on the BMJ website:

    Before Christmas, UKRI set out how it would allocate its four year £38.6bn allocation from the government to the various councils through three priority “buckets.”1 There would be £8bn for targeted research and development “addressing national and societal priorities,” £7bn to commercialise cutting edge technologies, and £14bn for what it described as “curiosity driven research.”
    https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s348

    So, if anything like true, this means less than 20% of their budget is the vital 'seedcorn' that everyone is wibbling about, with the vast majority given over to utter pap that is at best wasteful and at worst harmful. They should have 80% of their budget removed, not retained!
    Monoclonal antibodies came out of "curiosity driven research". The patents on them generated more income for the MRC (now absorbed into UKRI) than any other single discovery.

    The real problem, as I noted above, is that the hundreds of millions those patents generated is insignificant against the hundreds of billions generated by the US biotechs which commercialised them.

    Your comment exemplifies what is so ignorant and wrongheaded about Badenoch's policy
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    edited April 26
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
    This is an interesting 2026 piece that the AI used as a source, on the BMJ website:

    Before Christmas, UKRI set out how it would allocate its four year £38.6bn allocation from the government to the various councils through three priority “buckets.”1 There would be £8bn for targeted research and development “addressing national and societal priorities,” £7bn to commercialise cutting edge technologies, and £14bn for what it described as “curiosity driven research.”
    https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s348

    So, if anything like true, this means less than 20% of their budget is the vital 'seedcorn' that everyone is wibbling about, with the vast majority given over to utter pap that is at best wasteful and at worst harmful. They should have 80% of their budget removed, not retained!
    "Curosity driven research" is what PhD / Postdocs are funded via. FYI, the arts funding compared to the rest, where most of the total BS stuff you mentioned comes from is a tiny fraction of the £40bn, it gets like £80 million a year.

    There is definitely nonsense grants for research, but just chopping 20% won't solve that. Its like when the BBC have their funding restricted by the government with no other conditions, they don't chop the BS. What it requires is much more targetted focus on what UKRI should be doing, not just chop 20%.
    Sounds like £80m too much. And, frankly, I worry about the judgement of someone who thought any of that nonsense was a good idea.
    Well that is why rather than focus on the budget chop, it should be organisational reform. There is a huge problem with post-grad now in the UK, proportion of British people are doing PhDs / post-docs compared to those been undertaken, particularly in STEM, is small fraction now. This has been the case for 15+ years now, the numbers dropping radically. One key part of it is the stipend / wage is inflation adjusted way down for both PhD's and post-docs.

    I know of university research groups where its like 90% non-UK, hugely skewed to Chinese students. Nothing against foreign students / early years researchers, most of incredibly bright, but this isn't good long term for the UK.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
    This is an interesting 2026 piece that the AI used as a source, on the BMJ website:

    Before Christmas, UKRI set out how it would allocate its four year £38.6bn allocation from the government to the various councils through three priority “buckets.”1 There would be £8bn for targeted research and development “addressing national and societal priorities,” £7bn to commercialise cutting edge technologies, and £14bn for what it described as “curiosity driven research.”
    https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s348

    So, if anything like true, this means less than 20% of their budget is the vital 'seedcorn' that everyone is wibbling about, with the vast majority given over to utter pap that is at best wasteful and at worst harmful. They should have 80% of their budget removed, not retained!
    I’ve just applied for a “curiosity driven research grant”

    I’ve told them it’s about expanding the vision of subatomic actions on reality.

    I’ve got the solid motors all sorted. Anyone know where I can get some Fogbank cheap?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,513
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Satellite images of Tuapse oil refinery.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/2048330721102643381

    Spoiler alert: there’s not much of it left!

    So that one's done. Next...

    This is an extraordinary effort by Ukraine to create the weaponry that can inflict this and take out the air defence that stops this - from domestic means that do not require any "Please Sir, can we hit Russia?" prior approval.

    The effect on the Russian economy cannot be anything other than dramatic.
    Yes, they’ve designed and build a number of long-range weapons themselves, specifically so they don’t have to ask anyone permission to shoot at Russia.

    The Amercians in particular, whether under Trump or Biden, were very reticent to let US-made weapons cause damage on Russian soil, or to be captured for reverse-engineering.

    Ukranian drones can now go all the way to the Ural Mountains, targets were hit this weekend in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/2047935706387869941

    There appear to be large areas of Russia with little to no air defence capability.
    Bit like the UK then?
    We’ll never get the answer, for obvious reasons, but one suspects that there’s little beyond the QRA Typhoons in terms of active incoming air defences. Perhaps they have a couple of Patriot batteries somewhere near Lossie and somewhere near London.
    If we got attacked by Drones it would be in the thousands as Russia does in Ukraine to overwhelm defence systems that actually work about 80% of the time. A few Patriot batteries are going to make next to no difference at all, as the US found in your neck of the wood.
    Oh if Russia sends a hundred Shahed drones the UK is screwed. They’d quickly be left with nothing except shooting them from the ground with shotguns.
    I saw an incredible piece of film in which a housewife in Ukraine had mounted a shotgun on a drone platform and managed to shoot down a Shahed with it. Not sure we have that level of ingenuity anymore.
    And if we had it would be stopped for breaking H&S regulations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,553

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have we discussed this ?
    (I think it a really bad idea, which Reform will likely pick up too.)

    The Conservative plan to cut the budget of UK Research and Innovation by 20%, reallocating the money to defence, is a signal that a 20 year old cross-party consensus on science funding has come to an end...
    https://x.com/RichardALJones/status/2047939525893140941

    The UK does have a long term problem of being consistently unable to capitalise on what's often world class research, but this is not a solution to that problem.

    Its a good job we aren't a knowledge economy or that AI is coming for all the low hanging fruit of said knowledge economies while China increasing getting really good at the high end.
    UKRI is a colossal waste of public money. 20% is pocket change - it should have its entire budget suspended until it has been reformed root and branch.

    Recent awards highlighted by Charlotte Gill include:

    £840,000 award for a project titled "The Europe that Gay Porn Built, 1945–2000."

    £939,368 for FemIDEAS: Decolonising Sexual and Gender-Based Violence in Higher Education - at the University of Westminster Centre for Social Justice

    £800,000 - Facilitating a University of Roehampton project that says the “disproportionate representation” of William Shakespeare in the theatre has propagated “white, able-bodied, heterosexual, cisgender male narratives”.

    Failing to 'capitalise' on 'world class research'?
    From UKRI there are different things it funds. You can argue that there is money being poorly spent in bunging nonsense reearch in arts / humanities, but UKRI also funds things like EPSRC, which is how a huge proportion of STEM PhD are funded in the UK, which lots of universities are having trouble recruiting for becaues the stipend has got so bad. I bet you any money the government just reducing the budget by 20% will just result in 20% cut to all strands.
    This is an interesting 2026 piece that the AI used as a source, on the BMJ website:

    Before Christmas, UKRI set out how it would allocate its four year £38.6bn allocation from the government to the various councils through three priority “buckets.”1 There would be £8bn for targeted research and development “addressing national and societal priorities,” £7bn to commercialise cutting edge technologies, and £14bn for what it described as “curiosity driven research.”
    https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s348

    So, if anything like true, this means less than 20% of their budget is the vital 'seedcorn' that everyone is wibbling about, with the vast majority given over to utter pap that is at best wasteful and at worst harmful. They should have 80% of their budget removed, not retained!
    "Curosity driven research" is what PhD / Postdocs are funded via. FYI, the arts funding compared to the rest, where most of the total BS stuff you mentioned comes from is a tiny fraction of the £40bn, it gets like £80 million a year.

    There is definitely nonsense grants for research, but just chopping 20% won't solve that. Its like when the BBC have their funding restricted by the government with no other conditions, they don't chop the BS. What it requires is much more targetted focus on what UKRI should be doing, not just chop 20%.
    Sounds like £80m too much. And, frankly, I worry about the judgement of someone who thought any of that nonsense was a good idea.
    Well that is why rather than focus on the budget chop, it should be organisational reform. There is a huge problem with post-grad now in the UK, proportion of British people are doing PhDs / post-docs compared to those been undertaken, particularly in STEM, is small fraction now. This has been the case for 15+ years now, the numbers dropping radically. One key part of it is the stipend / wage is inflation adjusted way down for both PhD's and post-docs.

    I know of university research groups where its like 90% non-UK, hugely skewed to Chinese students. Nothing against foreign students / early years researchers, most of incredibly bright, but this isn't good long term for the UK.
    Fully funding 10,000 PhDs might be an interesting experiment.

    Can’t really think of a downside.
This discussion has been closed.