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Ohio? More like Oh No for Trump, Vance, and the Republicans – politicalbetting.com

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  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,513
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    The first party leader who promises to end triple lock pensions will have a certain level of greatness.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,567
    edited April 15

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Gary Neville?
    Football is trivial, and Gary Neville's understanding of government is considerably less than he imagines. And while obviously I don't know him personally and would love to be wrong about this, he comes across, even by the standards of professional footballers, as a massive bellend and an utter pain in the arse. But he's changed the face of Manchester in a good way. GNev has a better shout at low-level greatness than most of his contemporaries in football.
    And then he fucked off to Portland, Oregon.

    That's gratitude for you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,567
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Gary Neville?
    Football is trivial, and Gary Neville's understanding of government is considerably less than he imagines. And while obviously I don't know him personally and would love to be wrong about this, he comes across, even by the standards of professional footballers, as a massive bellend and an utter pain in the arse. But he's changed the face of Manchester in a good way. GNev has a better shout at low-level greatness than most of his contemporaries in football.
    And then he fucked off to Portland, Oregon.

    That's gratitude for you.
    Did he? I thought he still lived in Manchester. He's quite heavily involved in property development here,.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,226
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,521
    @schwartzbWSJ

    SCOOP: Small group of Trump employees and at least one Mar-a-Lago member directly lobbied the president earlier this year to expand the H-2B visa program, which is used by properties owned by the the Trump Org.

    Inside a secret meeting featuring Trump, his veteran employees + a Mar-a-Lago member that seemed to convince POTUS to expand the H-2B visa allotment.

    https://x.com/schwartzbWSJ/status/2044491447374676259?s=20
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,399
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelenskyy

    Carney

    Pedro Sánchez



    Wot- no Starmer?
    The Starmer era of greatness has only just begun.
    I must have missed that starting pistol...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287
    Leon said:

    I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.

    Plus, in all seriousness their exploit was a bit meh compared to Borman, Lovell and Anders on Apollo 8.
    We own a 1973 mini. It staggers me to think we landed on the moon and brought the astronauts home with a craft built before the mini. The mini is terrible.

    How on earth did they do it?

    The current mission - all seemed a bit like an extension of the ISS.
    In the brilliant netfix documentary on Apollo 13 you can see engineers at Mission Control furiously working out stuff with… slide rules

    It’s like one step away from the abacus. Incredible
    You should see some of the stuff I've pulled off in Kerbal Space Program (which I'm now diving into again...)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,567

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
    I share Leon's view of Southgate's averageness as a football manager, but he's far less annoying as a public figure than Neville or Lineker.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,200
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
    I share Leon's view of Southgate's averageness as a football manager, but he's far less annoying as a public figure than Neville or Lineker.
    I think Southgate did pretty well but lacked the touch of greatness to know how to get over the line. 2001 Final one up, on top, needed to go for it. Failed, sat back and lost. WC semi same scenario. To be the best sometimes you need to be really brave.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,242
    edited April 15
    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
  • Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
    It’s fairly weird EATING fish and chips without peas several times a week
  • Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
    I share Leon's view of Southgate's averageness as a football manager, but he's far less annoying as a public figure than Neville or Lineker.
    I think Southgate did pretty well but lacked the touch of greatness to know how to get over the line. 2001 Final one up, on top, needed to go for it. Failed, sat back and lost. WC semi same scenario. To be the best sometimes you need to be really brave.
    Yes. That’s why I despise him. We shoulda won at least one of those and the failure was down to him. He lacks the nerve to seize the crown

    Ffs he’s the guy that missed the penalty! A quintessential loser

    And the faux niceness grates. Even the waistcoats began to grate quite quickly. He was paid enormous sums and he was given very talented footballers and he lost
  • MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane

    I don’t want to harm them. But they need to be gone. Start with anyone foreign convicted of serious crimes
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,226
    I missed the news earlier today that the UK is aiming to deliver at least 120,000 drones to Ukraine this year.

    On the one hand, that's a lot of drones. On the other, it's just 3% of the drones that Ukraine built for itself last year.

    Ukraine also making an agreement today on joint done production with Italy. I do think that these projects on joint drone production that Ukraine has been making across Europe are quite consequential. Hopefully they will ramp up over time, and then it could give Ukraine an advantage over Russia.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,789
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane
    £200 million, please :lol:
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,567
    edited April 15
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
    It’s fairly weird EATING fish and chips without peas several times a week
    My father-in-law ate fish and chips for 98% of meals for a period of around 6 years when I first knew him. Not 98% of evening meals, 98% of meals. Always from the same chippy. He was working away and of the more 'traditional' sort and not one to cook for himself. So my standards of how much fish and chips is weird, whether with or without peas, is somewhat skewed. But yes, it is odd.
    Are you in Falmouth perchance? One of my happiest fish and chips experiences was eating it on the harbourfront in Falmouth a few years ago. A perfect setting.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,261
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
    It’s fairly weird EATING fish and chips without peas several times a week
    My father-in-law ate fish and chips for 98% of meals for a period of around 6 years when I first knew him. Not 98% of evening meals, 98% of meals. Always from the same chippy. He was working away and of the more 'traditional' sort and not one to cook for himself. So my standards of how much fish and chips is weird, whether with or without peas, is somewhat skewed. But yes, it is odd.
    Are you in Falmouth perchance? One of my happiest fish and chips experiences was eating it on the harbourfront in Falmouth a few years ago. A perfect setting.
    And it wasn't stolen by a shite hawk? You were lucky
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,357
    carnforth said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2026/apr/14/v-and-a-censored-catalogues-demands-chinese-printer

    "V&A censored catalogues after demands by Chinese printer

    Exclusive: Victoria and Albert Museum has deleted maps and images deemed sensitive by Beijing censors from exhibition publications"

    British empire bad, Chinese empire good.

    Like other prominent institutions, including the British Museum, Tate and the British Library, the V&A often uses Chinese printers because they can produce catalogues at half the cost of British or European companies.

    There's the scandal – sending printing offshore. If you use Chinese printers then you must accede to Chinese laws and censorship. Why anyone at these quasi-national institutions or at the DCMS thinks this is a price worth paying for cheaper catalogues is beyond me.
  • Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
    It’s fairly weird EATING fish and chips without peas several times a week
    My father-in-law ate fish and chips for 98% of meals for a period of around 6 years when I first knew him. Not 98% of evening meals, 98% of meals. Always from the same chippy. He was working away and of the more 'traditional' sort and not one to cook for himself. So my standards of how much fish and chips is weird, whether with or without peas, is somewhat skewed. But yes, it is odd.
    Are you in Falmouth perchance? One of my happiest fish and chips experiences was eating it on the harbourfront in Falmouth a few years ago. A perfect setting.
    I’m in Ballycastle, Northern Ireland. It’s rather charming

    It reminds me of the Britain we’ve lost
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Gary Neville?
    Football is trivial, and Gary Neville's understanding of government is considerably less than he imagines. And while obviously I don't know him personally and would love to be wrong about this, he comes across, even by the standards of professional footballers, as a massive bellend and an utter pain in the arse. But he's changed the face of Manchester in a good way. GNev has a better shout at low-level greatness than most of his contemporaries in football.
    And then he fucked off to Portland, Oregon.

    That's gratitude for you.
    Did he? I thought he still lived in Manchester. He's quite heavily involved in property development here,.
    SORRY!

    It's Phil Neville that fucked off to Portland.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,357
    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,513
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane

    I don’t want to harm them. But they need to be gone. Start with anyone foreign convicted of serious crimes
    Any foreign national who requires welfare payments for themselves or their dependents shouldn't be in the country and neither should they be given citizenship. We've been far too lax with it in the past handing it to people who have been permanently in benefits from the day they arrived but no party really has a plan for this, not even Reform.
    We're now told that being able to claim benefits gives you 'a stake in the country'.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,242
    edited April 15

    carnforth said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2026/apr/14/v-and-a-censored-catalogues-demands-chinese-printer

    "V&A censored catalogues after demands by Chinese printer

    Exclusive: Victoria and Albert Museum has deleted maps and images deemed sensitive by Beijing censors from exhibition publications"

    British empire bad, Chinese empire good.

    Like other prominent institutions, including the British Museum, Tate and the British Library, the V&A often uses Chinese printers because they can produce catalogues at half the cost of British or European companies.

    There's the scandal – sending printing offshore. If you use Chinese printers then you must accede to Chinese laws and censorship. Why anyone at these quasi-national institutions or at the DCMS thinks this is a price worth paying for cheaper catalogues is beyond me.
    There is a confusion in the article where they say "publisher" instead of printer. But the publisher is the V&A and the printer is Chinese.

    I'm surprised the Chinese printer gives a shit. But the first reaction of the V&A should have been to refuse and move the printing to bangladesh or turkey or wherever.

    It's commodity work.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,180
    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    The closest person I can think to this is John Major. Seriously.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,567
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane

    I don’t want to harm them. But they need to be gone. Start with anyone foreign convicted of serious crimes
    Any foreign national who requires welfare payments for themselves or their dependents shouldn't be in the country and neither should they be given citizenship. We've been far too lax with it in the past handing it to people who have been permanently in benefits from the day they arrived but no party really has a plan for this, not even Reform.
    It's weird, because I know middle class Canadian immigrants who have to a) take out an insurance policy when they move here in case they have to use the NHS, and b) sign a waiver to say that they won't claim any benefits for five years. These are exactly the sort of immigrants we want. Yet we have to pay out in benefits to immigrants we don't want here in the first place.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
    It’s fairly weird EATING fish and chips without peas several times a week
    My father-in-law ate fish and chips for 98% of meals for a period of around 6 years when I first knew him. Not 98% of evening meals, 98% of meals. Always from the same chippy. He was working away and of the more 'traditional' sort and not one to cook for himself. So my standards of how much fish and chips is weird, whether with or without peas, is somewhat skewed. But yes, it is odd.
    Are you in Falmouth perchance? One of my happiest fish and chips experiences was eating it on the harbourfront in Falmouth a few years ago. A perfect setting.
    I’m in Ballycastle, Northern Ireland. It’s rather charming

    It reminds me of the Britain we’ve lost
    Ah, proper sectarianism, I like it.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    How can Farage blatantly lie like this? Unless there is some kind of stitch up from Labour going on, his words condemn him. Very strange

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/2044507937364644088?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491
    isam said:

    How can Farage blatantly lie like this? Unless there is some kind of stitch up from Labour going on, his words condemn him. Very strange

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/2044507937364644088?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Ouch.

    That's an embarassing clip.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    isam said:

    How can Farage blatantly lie like this? Unless there is some kind of stitch up from Labour going on, his words condemn him. Very strange

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/2044507937364644088?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Whilst direct lies are rarer than we might think - as opposed to lies of omission or terminological inexactitude, wrong in their own way - it is still not particularly uncommon. Core supporters are never going to see the proof even if it exists, and even less casual supporters will mostly read vaguely about the details rather than see it with their own eyes.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,513
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane

    I don’t want to harm them. But they need to be gone. Start with anyone foreign convicted of serious crimes
    Any foreign national who requires welfare payments for themselves or their dependents shouldn't be in the country and neither should they be given citizenship. We've been far too lax with it in the past handing it to people who have been permanently in benefits from the day they arrived but no party really has a plan for this, not even Reform.
    It's weird, because I know middle class Canadian immigrants who have to a) take out an insurance policy when they move here in case they have to use the NHS, and b) sign a waiver to say that they won't claim any benefits for five years. These are exactly the sort of immigrants we want. Yet we have to pay out in benefits to immigrants we don't want here in the first place.
    I'm not as pessimistic as this, we're not as bad off as he thinks exactly, but I do think Tom Harwood has a point on this - in that we think we can afford more than we can, and don't have to make difficult choices as a result, which leads into some very nice but very expensive positions that are more burdensome than we think,

    I think a huge part of the reason why no government has been able to enact difficult pro-growth reforms is that the average voter still believes we remain a rich country.

    You hear this in politicians’ rhetoric “the sixth richest country in the world”.

    We’re the sixth largest economy but now far from the richest. Per capita we’re tanking down the rankings.

    One of the reasons why Poland or China have been able to have growth miracles in recent years is they think like a developing country.

    They know they were poor and they have to build to get rich.

    We think we are rich and that we don’t have to build anything anymore, or that when we do, it has to be the most expensive possible version of what we build.

    Bat tunnels. Fish Discos. Kittiwake hotels.

    We think we’re rich so we can afford to chase some wealth creators away, afford to mandate public biodiversity net gain on every development in the country, and afford to ratchet up state pension spending five times faster than the rate of growth in the economy.

    We’re suffering from acute ‘rich country delusion’.

    It’s only once we realise we’re far poorer than we should be that we can start to fix this nonsense.

    https://nitter.poast.org/tomhfh/status/2044527911055589607#m
    It all started to go wrong when the media stopped reporting the trade balance.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,659

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
    Brian Whittle
  • Farage is slippery.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 2,007
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Garry Kasparov.
    I think that's a really good call. His Substack is excellent. And he has been a principled opponent to both Communism and Putinism.
    He’s a fucking chess player. I admire his bravery and he makes good points, but he’s a fucking chess player. It’s like saying Clare Balding is like Joan of Arc
    Both a bit fiery.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,146
    Tres said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
    Brian Whittle
    James cracknell
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    The first party leader who promises to end triple lock pensions will have a certain level of greatness.
    Until the pensioners turn out to vote on that promise
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,495
    Tres said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
    Brian Whittle
    The late Menzies Campbell was an Olympic sprinter. For 6 weeks in 1967 he was "the fastest white man on earth".
    Also Colin Moynihan.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880
    isam said:

    How can Farage blatantly lie like this? Unless there is some kind of stitch up from Labour going on, his words condemn him. Very strange

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/2044507937364644088?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage has a point though, healthcare in this country should be mainly funded by social insurance like most OECD nations
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,596
    Marrowfat peas are OK but they have to be proper mushy to go with fish and chips.
    And if they aren't swimming in gravy then that isn't real.
    Not as good as a proper pie barm or Wigan kebab.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 1,065
    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    Nah. Citizenship should be final. Otherwise it's glorified ILR. There's something so fundamental about the thing. Feel the same way about marriage fwiw, which can also I think be annulled atm for some kinds of fraud.

    Maybe there ought to be some sort of consummation equivalent though, before which the citizenship may be annulled. I'm not sure what that ought to be? Citizenship ceremonies are a bit like that but they're the equivalent of the Swaziland king when the marriage is only official once the bride gets pregnant aiui.

    Perhaps for citizenship it should be a year or two of citizen-ing without suicide bombing or mugging old ladies or whatever. Idk.

    Should we tighten up on piss takers pre-citizenship though? Absolutely.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 1,065
    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Dalai Lama.

    Sure, he's not universally loved. But neither was JP2.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,146
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    How can Farage blatantly lie like this? Unless there is some kind of stitch up from Labour going on, his words condemn him. Very strange

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/2044507937364644088?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage has a point though, healthcare in this country should be mainly funded by social insurance like most OECD nations
    Why?
    What difference does the source of the money make?
    See kings fund analysis
    Higher admin costs
    Narrower tax base
    So more money raised from fewer people for the same money spent on treatment
    https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/long-reads/nhs-crisis-evaluating-radical-alternatives
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,877
    edited April 16
    Most years I buy the New Yorker daily calendar for the cartoons. It's printed in China, which may explain why I haven't seen a New Yorker cartoon making fun of the ChiComs, in many years.

    (If the pages in the Victoria and Albert catalog that were changed become available on line, or, better yet in print, I'd be willing to pay at least 10 of your pounds to have them. Before and after would be best, of course.)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,357
    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,866

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
    I think the new rules pretty much cover this sort of abuse in that refugees no longer get ILR and even when granted leave to remain get reassessed every 30 months.

    BBC News - Refugee status becomes temporary in asylum shake-up - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp32ddzdjxko?app-referrer=deep-link

    While the numbers are very small claiming persecution on the grounds of homosexuality or Christianity etc, and do not have a good success rate whatever these dodgy lawyers claim, anyone doing this would have to prove their homosexuality or Christianity every 30 months indefinitely at reassessment. Those loopholes are already closed

    Obviously any lawyer promoting lies on asylum claims should be barred and prosecuted for fraud too.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,399
    Ohio might be interesting, but Texas is more so.

    "James Talarico just raised $27 million in Q1 2026, the largest first-quarter total for a Senate candidate in U.S. history. He's outraising every Democrat in a competitive Senate race this cycle and has tripled what Colin Allred brought in at this point in 2024."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2DYxlayGjM
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    From a lawyers perspective, I really hope that the SRA (the legal regulator) steps up to the plate here. Junior lawyers get struck off for accidentally leaving laptops on trains but this as reported is a far more egregious breach of the standards and regulations and undermines the entire profession. Not good.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,492

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    From a lawyers perspective, I really hope that the SRA (the legal regulator) steps up to the plate here. Junior lawyers get struck off for accidentally leaving laptops on trains but this as reported is a far more egregious breach of the standards and regulations and undermines the entire profession. Not good.
    If they haven't struck Andrew Parsons off for his absolutely astonishing actions in the Horizon case - police investigations notwithstanding - I have to say I think your hope is optimistic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    Good morning and happy national (Primary) offer day 👀
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,492
    Pulpstar said:

    Good morning and happy national (Primary) offer day 👀

    Is that a convoluted way of asking to be first? :wink:
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,160
    dixiedean said:

    Marrowfat peas are OK but they have to be proper mushy to go with fish and chips.
    And if they aren't swimming in gravy then that isn't real.
    Not as good as a proper pie barm or Wigan kebab.

    Mushy peas with fish and chips, or baked beans, marrow fat peas with. In ed beef cobbler.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,160
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
    It’s fairly weird EATING fish and chips without peas several times a week
    My father-in-law ate fish and chips for 98% of meals for a period of around 6 years when I first knew him. Not 98% of evening meals, 98% of meals. Always from the same chippy. He was working away and of the more 'traditional' sort and not one to cook for himself. So my standards of how much fish and chips is weird, whether with or without peas, is somewhat skewed. But yes, it is odd.
    Are you in Falmouth perchance? One of my happiest fish and chips experiences was eating it on the harbourfront in Falmouth a few years ago. A perfect setting.
    Even breakfast ?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,260

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane

    I don’t want to harm them. But they need to be gone. Start with anyone foreign convicted of serious crimes
    Any foreign national who requires welfare payments for themselves or their dependents shouldn't be in the country and neither should they be given citizenship. We've been far too lax with it in the past handing it to people who have been permanently in benefits from the day they arrived but no party really has a plan for this, not even Reform.
    It's weird, because I know middle class Canadian immigrants who have to a) take out an insurance policy when they move here in case they have to use the NHS, and b) sign a waiver to say that they won't claim any benefits for five years. These are exactly the sort of immigrants we want. Yet we have to pay out in benefits to immigrants we don't want here in the first place.
    I'm not as pessimistic as this, we're not as bad off as he thinks exactly, but I do think Tom Harwood has a point on this - in that we think we can afford more than we can, and don't have to make difficult choices as a result, which leads into some very nice but very expensive positions that are more burdensome than we think,

    I think a huge part of the reason why no government has been able to enact difficult pro-growth reforms is that the average voter still believes we remain a rich country.

    You hear this in politicians’ rhetoric “the sixth richest country in the world”.

    We’re the sixth largest economy but now far from the richest. Per capita we’re tanking down the rankings.

    One of the reasons why Poland or China have been able to have growth miracles in recent years is they think like a developing country.

    They know they were poor and they have to build to get rich.

    We think we are rich and that we don’t have to build anything anymore, or that when we do, it has to be the most expensive possible version of what we build.

    Bat tunnels. Fish Discos. Kittiwake hotels.

    We think we’re rich so we can afford to chase some wealth creators away, afford to mandate public biodiversity net gain on every development in the country, and afford to ratchet up state pension spending five times faster than the rate of growth in the economy.

    We’re suffering from acute ‘rich country delusion’.

    It’s only once we realise we’re far poorer than we should be that we can start to fix this nonsense.

    https://nitter.poast.org/tomhfh/status/2044527911055589607#m
    It all started to go wrong when the media stopped reporting the trade balance.
    Very, very niche but my first job was the Statistical Office of Customs & Excise verifying the trade stats. Mind numbing does not cover the turgidness of the role so its loss is no biggie.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,293
    so what happened to

    going for growth
    building 1.5 million houses
    fixing the foundations

    all long forgotten.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,399
    Battlebus said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane

    I don’t want to harm them. But they need to be gone. Start with anyone foreign convicted of serious crimes
    Any foreign national who requires welfare payments for themselves or their dependents shouldn't be in the country and neither should they be given citizenship. We've been far too lax with it in the past handing it to people who have been permanently in benefits from the day they arrived but no party really has a plan for this, not even Reform.
    It's weird, because I know middle class Canadian immigrants who have to a) take out an insurance policy when they move here in case they have to use the NHS, and b) sign a waiver to say that they won't claim any benefits for five years. These are exactly the sort of immigrants we want. Yet we have to pay out in benefits to immigrants we don't want here in the first place.
    I'm not as pessimistic as this, we're not as bad off as he thinks exactly, but I do think Tom Harwood has a point on this - in that we think we can afford more than we can, and don't have to make difficult choices as a result, which leads into some very nice but very expensive positions that are more burdensome than we think,

    I think a huge part of the reason why no government has been able to enact difficult pro-growth reforms is that the average voter still believes we remain a rich country.

    You hear this in politicians’ rhetoric “the sixth richest country in the world”.

    We’re the sixth largest economy but now far from the richest. Per capita we’re tanking down the rankings.

    One of the reasons why Poland or China have been able to have growth miracles in recent years is they think like a developing country.

    They know they were poor and they have to build to get rich.

    We think we are rich and that we don’t have to build anything anymore, or that when we do, it has to be the most expensive possible version of what we build.

    Bat tunnels. Fish Discos. Kittiwake hotels.

    We think we’re rich so we can afford to chase some wealth creators away, afford to mandate public biodiversity net gain on every development in the country, and afford to ratchet up state pension spending five times faster than the rate of growth in the economy.

    We’re suffering from acute ‘rich country delusion’.

    It’s only once we realise we’re far poorer than we should be that we can start to fix this nonsense.

    https://nitter.poast.org/tomhfh/status/2044527911055589607#m
    It all started to go wrong when the media stopped reporting the trade balance.
    Very, very niche but my first job was the Statistical Office of Customs & Excise verifying the trade stats. Mind numbing does not cover the turgidness of the role so its loss is no biggie.
    Isn't that what AI is meant to save you from?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,874
    edited April 16
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
    I think the new rules pretty much cover this sort of abuse in that refugees no longer get ILR and even when granted leave to remain get reassessed every 30 months.

    BBC News - Refugee status becomes temporary in asylum shake-up - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp32ddzdjxko?app-referrer=deep-link

    While the numbers are very small claiming persecution on the grounds of homosexuality or Christianity etc, and do not have a good success rate whatever these dodgy lawyers claim, anyone doing this would have to prove their homosexuality or Christianity every 30 months indefinitely at reassessment. Those loopholes are already closed

    Obviously any lawyer promoting lies on asylum claims should be barred and prosecuted for fraud too.
    Looking at the report, it doesn't seem clear whether this ruse works or not.

    Is the scandal about weakness in the immigration system, or dodgy individuals selling promises they can't deliver? The equivalent of "cure your cancer with these special berries"?

    Probably a bit of both, but the ratio matters.
  • StarryStarry Posts: 203

    so what happened to

    going for growth
    building 1.5 million houses
    fixing the foundations

    all long forgotten.

    Yeah, they've had a whole year to fix the unmitigated disaster from the previous decade.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,495
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelensky is a contemporary leader who has risen to meet the challenge of recent events, and I think will be seen as a major historical figure. You could argue that he has saved Europe from Russian imperialism.

    Also, while he's a complete dickhead in many respects, I think Elon Musk's impact on the future via the medium of reducing the cost of rocket launches is going to be seen as monumental in retrospect.
    He also kickstarted electric vehicles, and is absolutely right about the impact of solar on world energy.

    What a shame he discovered Twitter.
    The thing about electric cars is that Tesla is going to end up as a footnote and, when everything is electric it's not going to seem that revolutionary that cars became electric. Of course they did.

    But the work that Spacex is doing will, I think, truly stand the test of time and only become more important and consequential.
    And Starlink

    And X, even tho most people here will fiercely disagree. I reckon he bought freedom of speech and preserved it. Remember twitter of old would censor you or cancel you for even mentioning the ‘lab leak theory’. Shameful times
    The censorship is still there, it's just different people being censored.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,874
    Meanwhile in "nice while it lasted" news,

    UK economy grew by 0.5% in February
    Newsflash: The UK economy was growing much faster than expected before the Iran war jolted global activity.

    UK GDP rose by 0.5% in February, new data from the Office for National Statistics shows. That’s much stronger than the 0.1% growth the City had expected.

    The ONS reports that services and production both grew by 0.5%, and construction grew by 1.0% in February.

    January’s GDP data has been revised up too – to show 0.1% growth, rather than stagnation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2026/apr/16/uk-february-gdp-report-economy-iran-war-stock-market-reeves-ftse-sterling-live-updates
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    edited April 16
    Didn't get first choice where a couple of her best friends are going. Oh well, system doesn't seem to have much choice if you're rural. Oh well
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    edited April 16
    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't get first choice where a couple of her best friends are going. Oh well, system doesn't seem to have much choice if you're rural. Oh well

    Sorry to hear that. The flip side is that she’ll probably make new best friends.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,659

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
    I think the new rules pretty much cover this sort of abuse in that refugees no longer get ILR and even when granted leave to remain get reassessed every 30 months.

    BBC News - Refugee status becomes temporary in asylum shake-up - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp32ddzdjxko?app-referrer=deep-link

    While the numbers are very small claiming persecution on the grounds of homosexuality or Christianity etc, and do not have a good success rate whatever these dodgy lawyers claim, anyone doing this would have to prove their homosexuality or Christianity every 30 months indefinitely at reassessment. Those loopholes are already closed

    Obviously any lawyer promoting lies on asylum claims should be barred and prosecuted for fraud too.
    Looking at the report, it doesn't seem clear whether this ruse works or not.

    Is the scandal about weakness in the immigration system, or dodgy individuals selling promises they can't deliver? The equivalent of "cure your cancer with these special berries"?

    Probably a bit of both, but the ratio matters.
    It's a good question. 3% of UK asylum is granted on sexuality apparently. At least a proportion of this will be people genuinely at risk of harm. The numbers who successfully and falsely claim asylum on grounds of sexuality will be very small.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,866

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
    I think the new rules pretty much cover this sort of abuse in that refugees no longer get ILR and even when granted leave to remain get reassessed every 30 months.

    BBC News - Refugee status becomes temporary in asylum shake-up - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp32ddzdjxko?app-referrer=deep-link

    While the numbers are very small claiming persecution on the grounds of homosexuality or Christianity etc, and do not have a good success rate whatever these dodgy lawyers claim, anyone doing this would have to prove their homosexuality or Christianity every 30 months indefinitely at reassessment. Those loopholes are already closed

    Obviously any lawyer promoting lies on asylum claims should be barred and prosecuted for fraud too.
    Looking at the report, it doesn't seem clear whether this ruse works or not.

    Is the scandal about weakness in the immigration system, or dodgy individuals selling promises they can't deliver? The equivalent of "cure your cancer with these special berries"?

    Probably a bit of both, but the ratio matters.
    Yes, in many ways the scandal is how dodgy immigration lawyers prey on vulnerable and desperate asylum seekers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,399
    Starry said:

    so what happened to

    going for growth
    building 1.5 million houses
    fixing the foundations

    all long forgotten.

    Yeah, they've had a whole year to fix the unmitigated disaster from the previous decade.
    21 months.

    Wasted.
  • Meanwhile in "nice while it lasted" news,

    UK economy grew by 0.5% in February
    Newsflash: The UK economy was growing much faster than expected before the Iran war jolted global activity.

    UK GDP rose by 0.5% in February, new data from the Office for National Statistics shows. That’s much stronger than the 0.1% growth the City had expected.

    The ONS reports that services and production both grew by 0.5%, and construction grew by 1.0% in February.

    January’s GDP data has been revised up too – to show 0.1% growth, rather than stagnation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2026/apr/16/uk-february-gdp-report-economy-iran-war-stock-market-reeves-ftse-sterling-live-updates

    Labour was doing a perfectly adequate job by recent historical standards
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143

    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't get first choice where a couple of her best friends are going. Oh well, system doesn't seem to have much choice if you're rural. Oh well

    Sorry to hear that. The flip side is that she’ll probably make new best friends.
    No worries. The geography of the local area is to be honest against us
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,954

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    Nah. Citizenship should be final. Otherwise it's glorified ILR. There's something so fundamental about the thing. Feel the same way about marriage fwiw, which can also I think be annulled atm for some kinds of fraud.

    Maybe there ought to be some sort of consummation equivalent though, before which the citizenship may be annulled. I'm not sure what that ought to be? Citizenship ceremonies are a bit like that but they're the equivalent of the Swaziland king when the marriage is only official once the bride gets pregnant aiui.

    Perhaps for citizenship it should be a year or two of citizen-ing without suicide bombing or mugging old ladies or whatever. Idk.

    Should we tighten up on piss takers pre-citizenship though? Absolutely.
    I think I'd tend to agree on the "citizenship should mean something" front.
    But there's two sides to this coin - if we're going to make citizenship something pretty much irrevocable, we need to stop handling it out like smarties. I'm thinking 20-25 years here without as much as a speeding ticket, significant English language proficiency (A-level?), possibly revocation of all other citizenships.

    IMHO the majority of immigrants shouldn't be progressing beyond ILR, citizenship should only be for those who actually want to become British in every possible way.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,866

    Meanwhile in "nice while it lasted" news,

    UK economy grew by 0.5% in February
    Newsflash: The UK economy was growing much faster than expected before the Iran war jolted global activity.

    UK GDP rose by 0.5% in February, new data from the Office for National Statistics shows. That’s much stronger than the 0.1% growth the City had expected.

    The ONS reports that services and production both grew by 0.5%, and construction grew by 1.0% in February.

    January’s GDP data has been revised up too – to show 0.1% growth, rather than stagnation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2026/apr/16/uk-february-gdp-report-economy-iran-war-stock-market-reeves-ftse-sterling-live-updates

    So it looks like Starmer and Reeves were doing quite well until Farage and Badenoch's chum Trump decided he needed his own Gulf war.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,141
    Kick him out! (It looks like they might)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dg0bInCs_E
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,399
    Foxy said:

    Meanwhile in "nice while it lasted" news,

    UK economy grew by 0.5% in February
    Newsflash: The UK economy was growing much faster than expected before the Iran war jolted global activity.

    UK GDP rose by 0.5% in February, new data from the Office for National Statistics shows. That’s much stronger than the 0.1% growth the City had expected.

    The ONS reports that services and production both grew by 0.5%, and construction grew by 1.0% in February.

    January’s GDP data has been revised up too – to show 0.1% growth, rather than stagnation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2026/apr/16/uk-february-gdp-report-economy-iran-war-stock-market-reeves-ftse-sterling-live-updates

    So it looks like Starmer and Reeves were doing quite well until Farage and Badenoch's chum Trump decided he needed his own Gulf war.
    I'm sure all we'll hear from Labour will be "...but for Iran" - whilst the Brexit/Covid/Ukraine/Cost of Living Crisis don't count as any mitigtion for the Tories...
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,160

    so what happened to

    going for growth
    building 1.5 million houses
    fixing the foundations

    all long forgotten.

    The failure on housing is down to Iran.

    Apparently.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    One of the worst companies ever created just lost their antitrust case in the US.

    Ticketmaster, and parent Live Nation, found guilty by a jury of monopolising the live events market.

    https://apnews.com/article/live-nation-ticketmaster-antitrust-trial-f0ffdd20dd4f64e8b4bb9d97134b826f
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,567
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
    You've said this several times each week? That's admirable devotion to an almost unquanifiably unimportant point. Well done - you win pb today.

    EDIT - gah - I hallucinated the word 'said' between 'have' and 'several'. Pity. The image of you furiously amd repeatedly reminding the world that fish and chips was better without peas amused me.
    It’s fairly weird EATING fish and chips without peas several times a week
    My father-in-law ate fish and chips for 98% of meals for a period of around 6 years when I first knew him. Not 98% of evening meals, 98% of meals. Always from the same chippy. He was working away and of the more 'traditional' sort and not one to cook for himself. So my standards of how much fish and chips is weird, whether with or without peas, is somewhat skewed. But yes, it is odd.
    Are you in Falmouth perchance? One of my happiest fish and chips experiences was eating it on the harbourfront in Falmouth a few years ago. A perfect setting.
    Even breakfast ?
    He didn't eat breakfast of lunch.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,260
    edited April 16
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
    I think the new rules pretty much cover this sort of abuse in that refugees no longer get ILR and even when granted leave to remain get reassessed every 30 months.

    BBC News - Refugee status becomes temporary in asylum shake-up - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp32ddzdjxko?app-referrer=deep-link

    While the numbers are very small claiming persecution on the grounds of homosexuality or Christianity etc, and do not have a good success rate whatever these dodgy lawyers claim, anyone doing this would have to prove their homosexuality or Christianity every 30 months indefinitely at reassessment. Those loopholes are already closed

    Obviously any lawyer promoting lies on asylum claims should be barred and prosecuted for fraud too.
    Looking at the report, it doesn't seem clear whether this ruse works or not.

    Is the scandal about weakness in the immigration system, or dodgy individuals selling promises they can't deliver? The equivalent of "cure your cancer with these special berries"?

    Probably a bit of both, but the ratio matters.
    Yes, in many ways the scandal is how dodgy immigration lawyers prey on vulnerable and desperate asylum seekers.
    Immigration Advice is tiered so a 'lawyer' can be a paralegal or just someone (like me) who worked at a charity with supervision. A lot of 'advice' is advice on form filling and likely not supervised by the SRA or Law Society. Seems to be something of an amplified version of what is actually happening.

    https://www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser/what-advisers-can-do

    Edit: I would say that many of the people I helped were genuinely in need of a safe haven but some were definitely out to play the system.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,866
    Battlebus said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
    I think the new rules pretty much cover this sort of abuse in that refugees no longer get ILR and even when granted leave to remain get reassessed every 30 months.

    BBC News - Refugee status becomes temporary in asylum shake-up - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp32ddzdjxko?app-referrer=deep-link

    While the numbers are very small claiming persecution on the grounds of homosexuality or Christianity etc, and do not have a good success rate whatever these dodgy lawyers claim, anyone doing this would have to prove their homosexuality or Christianity every 30 months indefinitely at reassessment. Those loopholes are already closed

    Obviously any lawyer promoting lies on asylum claims should be barred and prosecuted for fraud too.
    Looking at the report, it doesn't seem clear whether this ruse works or not.

    Is the scandal about weakness in the immigration system, or dodgy individuals selling promises they can't deliver? The equivalent of "cure your cancer with these special berries"?

    Probably a bit of both, but the ratio matters.
    Yes, in many ways the scandal is how dodgy immigration lawyers prey on vulnerable and desperate asylum seekers.
    Immigration Advice is tiered so a 'lawyer' can be a paralegal or just someone (like me) who worked at a charity with supervision. A lot of 'advice' is advice on form filling and likely not supervised by the SRA or Law Society. Seems to be something of an amplified version of what is actually happening.

    https://www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser/what-advisers-can-do

    Edit: I would say that many of the people I helped were genuinely in need of a safe haven but some were definitely out to play the system.
    Yes, my experience of asylum seekers is much the same, via both my church and my profession. Some desperate people fleeing terror and some chancers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580

    NEW THREAD

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880
    edited April 16
    Dopermean said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    How can Farage blatantly lie like this? Unless there is some kind of stitch up from Labour going on, his words condemn him. Very strange

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/2044507937364644088?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Farage has a point though, healthcare in this country should be mainly funded by social insurance like most OECD nations
    Why?
    What difference does the source of the money make?
    See kings fund analysis
    Higher admin costs
    Narrower tax base
    So more money raised from fewer people for the same money spent on treatment
    https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/long-reads/nhs-crisis-evaluating-radical-alternatives
    As otherwise the NHS is a bottomless pit demanding never ending taxpayer funds for it. For most patients social insurance works far better and is more efficient, as in France, Germany and Japan where for all but the still tax funded poorest health is funded by social insurance via wages
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,323
    As we saw from other recent global disasters voters don’t tend to be too sympathetic with incumbent governments when prices go up .

    At least Starmer avoided the even worse scenario of backing the Iran War and being complicit in fxcking the UK economy .

    A charge that can be laid at Badenoch and Farage.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    Nah. Citizenship should be final. Otherwise it's glorified ILR. There's something so fundamental about the thing. Feel the same way about marriage fwiw, which can also I think be annulled atm for some kinds of fraud.

    Maybe there ought to be some sort of consummation equivalent though, before which the citizenship may be annulled. I'm not sure what that ought to be? Citizenship ceremonies are a bit like that but they're the equivalent of the Swaziland king when the marriage is only official once the bride gets pregnant aiui.

    Perhaps for citizenship it should be a year or two of citizen-ing without suicide bombing or mugging old ladies or whatever. Idk.

    Should we tighten up on piss takers pre-citizenship though? Absolutely.
    I think I'd tend to agree on the "citizenship should mean something" front.
    But there's two sides to this coin - if we're going to make citizenship something pretty much irrevocable, we need to stop handling it out like smarties. I'm thinking 20-25 years here without as much as a speeding ticket, significant English language proficiency (A-level?), possibly revocation of all other citizenships.

    IMHO the majority of immigrants shouldn't be progressing beyond ILR, citizenship should only be for those who actually want to become British in every possible way.
    The majority of immigrants don’t even get as far as ILR. They come for a period and then return.

    To get ILR, you already need to demonstrate English language proficiency. Labour has recently raised that to CEFR level B2, which is meant to indicate fluency. B2 aligns with an A’level qualification.

    Many British-born citizens have other citizenships. Will you disallow these too? (This would be contrary to the Good Friday Agreement.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,226

    Meanwhile in "nice while it lasted" news,

    UK economy grew by 0.5% in February
    Newsflash: The UK economy was growing much faster than expected before the Iran war jolted global activity.

    UK GDP rose by 0.5% in February, new data from the Office for National Statistics shows. That’s much stronger than the 0.1% growth the City had expected.

    The ONS reports that services and production both grew by 0.5%, and construction grew by 1.0% in February.

    January’s GDP data has been revised up too – to show 0.1% growth, rather than stagnation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2026/apr/16/uk-february-gdp-report-economy-iran-war-stock-market-reeves-ftse-sterling-live-updates

    Labour was doing a perfectly adequate job by recent historical standards
    Recent historical standards have been abysmal, which is why the last government received its worst general election result in its almost two hundred years long history.

    Labour were supposed to be a change. Bumbling along in the same deteriorating fashion as the epically unpopular previous government doesn't cut it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,226
    Foxy said:

    Meanwhile in "nice while it lasted" news,

    UK economy grew by 0.5% in February
    Newsflash: The UK economy was growing much faster than expected before the Iran war jolted global activity.

    UK GDP rose by 0.5% in February, new data from the Office for National Statistics shows. That’s much stronger than the 0.1% growth the City had expected.

    The ONS reports that services and production both grew by 0.5%, and construction grew by 1.0% in February.

    January’s GDP data has been revised up too – to show 0.1% growth, rather than stagnation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2026/apr/16/uk-february-gdp-report-economy-iran-war-stock-market-reeves-ftse-sterling-live-updates

    So it looks like Starmer and Reeves were doing quite well until Farage and Badenoch's chum Trump decided he needed his own Gulf war.
    It's one month's preliminary estimate in a data series that is notoriously inaccurate, subject to revision and noisy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Garry Kasparov.
    barrel scraping really big time with those two pygmy's, great my arse
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467
    Leon said:

    MelonB said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I agree and I detest it. I blame in part the media, especially the BBC. They are obsessed with the USA. They breathlessly report American news as if it is British and thus import lots of wankiness

    It’s juvenile and embarrassing, it’s like they all watched West Wing and can’t get over it. Get over it
    I get it because of the dominance of American culture, I'm guilty of focusing on it too much too, but the news reports of some pretty niche political or culture events in the USA can be extremely weird and grating.

    I'm not about to say 'how dare we not hear more about what's going on in Parisian politics?' or something, but minor american celebrities and politicians should not really be newsworthy to us.
    It warps our perspective badly. China is just as important as America - in some areas like trade and industry it is much more important. How often do we get lead news reports from the BBC about stuff happening in China? Almost never. They treat it like it is an exotic foreign place of middling importance, not much more salient than Thailand. It’s absurd

    The recent purge by Xi should have been massive news. But it required work and brains to transmit and explain it to the average Brit. Easier to do Hollywood celeb tattle or some gruesome American court case
    In unrelated Chinese empire news my travelling son, who’s been riding and eating horses near Almaty for the last week or so, announced today that he and his friend are hopping across the border on a flight to Urumqi to spend 10 days in Xinjiang among the Uighurs.

    But so long as he doesn’t act too much like a spy or BBC journalist he’ll be fine. What was more concerning was his announcement that he’s considering, after some touring around other parts of Central Asia, “popping over to Afghanistan for a few days”.

    Several stern WhatsApps quoting FCDO guidance and travel insurance terms and conditions seem to have dulled the enthusiasm, for now.
    I have a friend who regularly goes into Afghanistan by land, taking that route, and he says it is totally safe. The taliban are hideous bigots but they have imposed order and security (however my friend is ex SAS and does security for a living so he may have different standards to most)

    You should tell your son to go for it. But I’m not taking any blame if he gets a hand amputated or something
    very reassuring for Melon I am sure
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    Oh come on, there's no need to be coy. We know how you really feel.
    I think it's a measure of how repellant the prospect of becoming an elected politician is that Seb Coe is the only former sportsperson to have given it a go. Otherwise one could imagine Linekar, Southgate and G. Neville (the three Gars) all deciding to give it a go.
    they are filling their pockets more easily elsewhere
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467

    Foxy said:

    Meanwhile in "nice while it lasted" news,

    UK economy grew by 0.5% in February
    Newsflash: The UK economy was growing much faster than expected before the Iran war jolted global activity.

    UK GDP rose by 0.5% in February, new data from the Office for National Statistics shows. That’s much stronger than the 0.1% growth the City had expected.

    The ONS reports that services and production both grew by 0.5%, and construction grew by 1.0% in February.

    January’s GDP data has been revised up too – to show 0.1% growth, rather than stagnation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2026/apr/16/uk-february-gdp-report-economy-iran-war-stock-market-reeves-ftse-sterling-live-updates

    So it looks like Starmer and Reeves were doing quite well until Farage and Badenoch's chum Trump decided he needed his own Gulf war.
    I'm sure all we'll hear from Labour will be "...but for Iran" - whilst the Brexit/Covid/Ukraine/Cost of Living Crisis don't count as any mitigtion for the Tories...
    At least "Tory Black Hole" ha sdisappeared from their vocabulary.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,547
    Cookie said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    carnforth said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    Revocation is needed. At any time, up until citizenship, if your reasons for asylum are shown to have been false - off you go.
    Even after citizenship it should be revoked. Lying for personal gain is fraud however you cut it and we should not reward fraud with citizenship. Revoke it and burn their passports/naturalisation certificates.
    I’ve reached the stage where I want quite a lot of people to be flown over their country of origin, given a parachute, and about £200 - then just push them out of the plane

    I don’t want to harm them. But they need to be gone. Start with anyone foreign convicted of serious crimes
    Any foreign national who requires welfare payments for themselves or their dependents shouldn't be in the country and neither should they be given citizenship. We've been far too lax with it in the past handing it to people who have been permanently in benefits from the day they arrived but no party really has a plan for this, not even Reform.
    It's weird, because I know middle class Canadian immigrants who have to a) take out an insurance policy when they move here in case they have to use the NHS, and b) sign a waiver to say that they won't claim any benefits for five years. These are exactly the sort of immigrants we want. Yet we have to pay out in benefits to immigrants we don't want here in the first place.
    A while back, in a discussion of immigration on PB, I pointed out that immigration from South America was extremely difficult. Despite the large number of talented (and highly educated) people from there.

    The arguments given as to why that should be so were hilarious.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,659
    Foxy said:

    Battlebus said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Well now, here's a surprise.

    @MaxPB for one has been saying this for a long time:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c937wldkkw8o

    Well it's been blatantly obvious that the rules around gay persecution and modern slavery have been exploited by fake asylum seekers for a decade. Both were ill thought out and we should revoke both routes immediately with no right of appeal. Anyone who was "advised" by these firms should also have their right to remain revoked immediately with deportation following within days and all of the lawyers should be disbarred and acharities involved should have their status revoked with the directors prosecutors for aiding immigration fraud alongside the lawyers.

    I think the Tories need to jump on this immediately and set themselves apart from Labour. Not only have these people lied to stay in the country, they've been aided by the establishment who have covered it up for years.

    Good on the BBC for looking at this and also publishing without fear. They could easily have buried the report or underplayed it. I hope The Times and other serious investigative outlets start taking these problems more seriously and also look at sham family reunions, fake slavery claims and all of the human rights lawyers, charities and scammers who enable this industrial scale fraud.
    I suspect you will find this system was set up by the Tories, as is the case with most of the issues that party jumps on.
    Who cares which party set it up. The point is to stop the abuse of the system as quickly as possible.
    Yes and no doubt the Home Secretary is on the case. I was pointing out the political problem for the Conservatives "jumping on this immediately" which is that like almost every issue they alight on, the problem started on their watch.
    I think the new rules pretty much cover this sort of abuse in that refugees no longer get ILR and even when granted leave to remain get reassessed every 30 months.

    BBC News - Refugee status becomes temporary in asylum shake-up - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp32ddzdjxko?app-referrer=deep-link

    While the numbers are very small claiming persecution on the grounds of homosexuality or Christianity etc, and do not have a good success rate whatever these dodgy lawyers claim, anyone doing this would have to prove their homosexuality or Christianity every 30 months indefinitely at reassessment. Those loopholes are already closed

    Obviously any lawyer promoting lies on asylum claims should be barred and prosecuted for fraud too.
    Looking at the report, it doesn't seem clear whether this ruse works or not.

    Is the scandal about weakness in the immigration system, or dodgy individuals selling promises they can't deliver? The equivalent of "cure your cancer with these special berries"?

    Probably a bit of both, but the ratio matters.
    Yes, in many ways the scandal is how dodgy immigration lawyers prey on vulnerable and desperate asylum seekers.
    Immigration Advice is tiered so a 'lawyer' can be a paralegal or just someone (like me) who worked at a charity with supervision. A lot of 'advice' is advice on form filling and likely not supervised by the SRA or Law Society. Seems to be something of an amplified version of what is actually happening.

    https://www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser/what-advisers-can-do

    Edit: I would say that many of the people I helped were genuinely in need of a safe haven but some were definitely out to play the system.
    Yes, my experience of asylum seekers is much the same, via both my church and my profession. Some desperate people fleeing terror and some chancers.
    The question is how many of those chancers end up getting asylum. Everyone apart from the previous Conservative government thinks decisions need to be speed up.
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