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This presages a truly terrible night for the Republicans in November – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,490

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    I woke up this morning and yawned contentedly and then thought “oh shit” and I rolled over to my phone to see if Trump had, in fact, dropped a nuke on Iran, while I was sleeping

    I’d rather not go through that moment again

    This needs to be the last such post from this ludicrous individual.

    Edit: Donald Trump, I mean.
    I’d have left it without the clarification. Let the reader decide…
    That would have been easy, given Leon is about eight individuals.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,521

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bush Jr and Trump aren't particularly intelligent or articulate but both are sharp, Bush Jr had a higher SAT score than Kerry though not Gore. Trump I would say has a slightly higher IQ than Biden did, though Hillary Clinton and probably Harris have a higher IQ than Trump

    @michaelemann.bsky.social‬

    "Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had"

    --- William T. Kelley (Penn Wharton)
    You don't get to be a billionaire and President of the USA by being completely dumb
    PB posters seem to treat intelligence as a holistic thing you either have or don't have. Evidently that is not the case, one of the most intelligent footballers ever was Gazza, incredible spatial awareness and vision, but he was as daft as a brush even before his alcohol problems.

    Trump has an uncanny understanding of what people want to hear, how they react to messaging and how to manipulate, combined with a complete lack of interest in any knowledge beyond the superficial. He is exceptionally strong in some small pockets of intelligence, but exceptionally weak in most, just like Gazza.
    Perfect skillset to gain power, especially in Presidential elections. Pretty disastrous skillset for someone exercising power.

    Not the only example of that in history.
    The big issue now is he seems to have lost any sense of object permanence. He can't equate outcomes today with his own actions yesterday.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Purely on the numbers, GCC spend very roughly 4-5% of GDP on defence. Saudi Arabia spends roughly what the UK does - $80 billion, for a GDP 1/3 of the size.
    Yup, and well aware since 1979 who was the enemy.

    An old family friend was an RAF instructor, spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia back in the Tornado days.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,725
    edited April 8
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bush Jr and Trump aren't particularly intelligent or articulate but both are sharp, Bush Jr had a higher SAT score than Kerry though not Gore. Trump I would say has a slightly higher IQ than Biden did, though Hillary Clinton and probably Harris have a higher IQ than Trump

    @michaelemann.bsky.social‬

    "Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had"

    --- William T. Kelley (Penn Wharton)
    You don't get to be a billionaire and President of the USA by being completely dumb
    It's not about raw IQ. That might be above average, high even. The problem is that he's ignorant, shallow and immature. This leaves him badly out of his depth in the job of US president. Look at how the likes of Putin and Netanyahu run rings around him. Or his sub-ladybird grasp of finance and economics (other than the personal grift aspect of it).
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,242
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anthropic's (claims its) new model, Claude Mythos, is so powerful that it is not releasing it to the public.

    Instead, it is starting a 40-company coalition, Project Glasswing, to allow cybersecurity defenders a head start in locking down critical software..

    ..I spoke to Anthropic execs about the new model, which they called a "reckoning" for cybersecurity.
    They claim it has already found vulnerabilities in every major operating system and web browser, including some that "literally decades of security researchers" didn't find...

    ..As always, the best stuff is in the system card.

    During testing, Claude Mythos Preview broke out of a sandbox environment, built "a moderately sophisticated multi-step exploit" to gain internet access, and emailed a researcher while they were eating a sandwich in the park...

    https://x.com/kevinroose/status/2041577176915702169

    “Our new product is about to break your business model, please pay us milions to avoid that happening…”
    Computer scientists have been warning about using memory-unsafe languages since, what, the 60s?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Thanks for the insight.

    The GCC countries do have the cash to splash, as it were, to defend the oil and gas infrastructure.

    I’d be interested on your thoughts as to how the GCC view China going forward - for now, a significant customer but also seeking to move away from oil dependency.

    I do think China has engineered this ceasefire as an act of desperation as they could see the impacts of a prolonged interruption of supply hurting them hard and fast.
    China is the big unknown in all of this.

    Most of the Gulf exports head East, and the GCC has been trying to thread the needle of neutrality between China and the West with BRICS for several years now, including stuff like oil deals priced in Yuan.

    But there’s also suggestions that China has months of supply in storage, more than the West, so I honestly don’t know what to think right now.

    A ceasefire with the Straight opened, however, makes a massive difference. As a random example, I can see from my place in Dubai at least three cruise ships which have been stuck in Port Rashid since 28th Feb. getting them out is a priority for the lines who must be losing millions per day they’re not at sea.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Perhaps to no one's great surprise, Washington and Tehran looked over the edge, into the abyss, and didn't much like what they saw.

    Should we also note the role of China in all this? The Chinese were set to be big losers from a prolonged disruption of oil supplies or rather from having to buy oil intended for other countries at higher prices.

    To save face, China gets its one of its allies to propose the ceasefire but at a point when enough people wanted and needed all this to stop.

    And so, it seems, it has - for now and it will be interesting to see if oil prices return to what they were or whether the $90 a barrel world has arrived.

    Everyone will claim victory and in a sense everybody has won something - well, not the dead Iranian, Israeli, Lebanese and others but everyone who matters -or at least has won enough to save face in the eyes of the world community and their electorates (delete as applicable).

    The longer term implications are the tough ones - the Iranian regime, hated as it is, has endured, seemingly. The hawks have missed their victory but relations between America and the rest of the world and Israel and the rest of the world and perhaps between America and Israel will not be the same.

    I suspect when the European media gets back into Iran and is shown the destruction wrought by Washington and Tel Aviv, this will accelerate the increasing estrangement of the Old World (parts of it) from the New (also parts of it).

    The missing relationship from your list, is that between Iran and the GCC States which surround it.

    These States were not part of any war, until Iran started randomly bombing them on 28th Feb, and are determined to prevent this situation recurring in future.

    Until very recently, Qatar was an Iranian ally, and the source of significant funds that ended up funding various Iranian proxies around the region, much to the disdain of their fellow GCC members. The World Cup very nearly didn’t happen, and forced the Qaratis to compromise. Now Iran is very much the enemy of everyone else in the region. Now Qatar has to rebuild significant O&G facilities.

    My suspicion is that, if Iran tries to toll the Straight, the GCC will use military force to avoid the tolls.
    Iran didn't start "randomly bombing them". The US attacked Iran and Iran bombed countries with US bases (Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan) or supporting the US. Iran didn't bomb Yemen!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    Danny (Dennis) Citrinowicz ,داني سيترينوفيتش
    @citrinowicz

    Putting the “Gains” of the War in Perspective

    When assessing the outcomes of the war, one point is worth keeping in mind:

    A regime that, just days ago, was seen in Washington as a legitimate target for overthrow, is now one it is negotiating with at the highest level of the administration.

    That tells you everything you need to know about the real outcome of the war.

    https://x.com/citrinowicz/status/2041799098081190390
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,159
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    Somewhat disconcertingly, here in deep rural France the air raid siren has just started up…
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,159

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Perhaps to no one's great surprise, Washington and Tehran looked over the edge, into the abyss, and didn't much like what they saw.

    Should we also note the role of China in all this? The Chinese were set to be big losers from a prolonged disruption of oil supplies or rather from having to buy oil intended for other countries at higher prices.

    To save face, China gets its one of its allies to propose the ceasefire but at a point when enough people wanted and needed all this to stop.

    And so, it seems, it has - for now and it will be interesting to see if oil prices return to what they were or whether the $90 a barrel world has arrived.

    Everyone will claim victory and in a sense everybody has won something - well, not the dead Iranian, Israeli, Lebanese and others but everyone who matters -or at least has won enough to save face in the eyes of the world community and their electorates (delete as applicable).

    The longer term implications are the tough ones - the Iranian regime, hated as it is, has endured, seemingly. The hawks have missed their victory but relations between America and the rest of the world and Israel and the rest of the world and perhaps between America and Israel will not be the same.

    I suspect when the European media gets back into Iran and is shown the destruction wrought by Washington and Tel Aviv, this will accelerate the increasing estrangement of the Old World (parts of it) from the New (also parts of it).

    The missing relationship from your list, is that between Iran and the GCC States which surround it.

    These States were not part of any war, until Iran started randomly bombing them on 28th Feb, and are determined to prevent this situation recurring in future.

    Until very recently, Qatar was an Iranian ally, and the source of significant funds that ended up funding various Iranian proxies around the region, much to the disdain of their fellow GCC members. The World Cup very nearly didn’t happen, and forced the Qaratis to compromise. Now Iran is very much the enemy of everyone else in the region. Now Qatar has to rebuild significant O&G facilities.

    My suspicion is that, if Iran tries to toll the Straight, the GCC will use military force to avoid the tolls.
    Iran didn't start "randomly bombing them". The US attacked Iran and Iran bombed countries with US bases (Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan) or supporting the US. Iran didn't bomb Yemen!
    But they didn’t target the US bases. They targetted energy and civilian infrastructure.

    Target US bases. Fair enough. The US was the aggressor after all. Civilian infrastructure less so, but then the US and Israel does that too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,784
    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anthropic's (claims its) new model, Claude Mythos, is so powerful that it is not releasing it to the public.

    Instead, it is starting a 40-company coalition, Project Glasswing, to allow cybersecurity defenders a head start in locking down critical software..

    ..I spoke to Anthropic execs about the new model, which they called a "reckoning" for cybersecurity.
    They claim it has already found vulnerabilities in every major operating system and web browser, including some that "literally decades of security researchers" didn't find...

    ..As always, the best stuff is in the system card.

    During testing, Claude Mythos Preview broke out of a sandbox environment, built "a moderately sophisticated multi-step exploit" to gain internet access, and emailed a researcher while they were eating a sandwich in the park...

    https://x.com/kevinroose/status/2041577176915702169

    “Our new product is about to break your business model, please pay us milions to avoid that happening…”
    Computer scientists have been warning about using memory-unsafe languages since, what, the 60s?
    Yes, but C never huddled in the chip and worked out how to escape into your bank account and email you whilst it's doing it.
  • I’m at a (nicely chilled) Gatwick South Terminal, off on assignment

    Yesterday afternoon I was calmly discussing the prospects of the flight with the PR company organising it

    “If it’s just a ground invasion then the flight should go ahead..”

    “I agree”

    “But if they do drop a nuclear bomb surely all flights will be grounded, at least in Eurasia”

    “That’s what we think, as well”

    Etc etc

    Truly surreal
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Perhaps to no one's great surprise, Washington and Tehran looked over the edge, into the abyss, and didn't much like what they saw.

    Should we also note the role of China in all this? The Chinese were set to be big losers from a prolonged disruption of oil supplies or rather from having to buy oil intended for other countries at higher prices.

    To save face, China gets its one of its allies to propose the ceasefire but at a point when enough people wanted and needed all this to stop.

    And so, it seems, it has - for now and it will be interesting to see if oil prices return to what they were or whether the $90 a barrel world has arrived.

    Everyone will claim victory and in a sense everybody has won something - well, not the dead Iranian, Israeli, Lebanese and others but everyone who matters -or at least has won enough to save face in the eyes of the world community and their electorates (delete as applicable).

    The longer term implications are the tough ones - the Iranian regime, hated as it is, has endured, seemingly. The hawks have missed their victory but relations between America and the rest of the world and Israel and the rest of the world and perhaps between America and Israel will not be the same.

    I suspect when the European media gets back into Iran and is shown the destruction wrought by Washington and Tel Aviv, this will accelerate the increasing estrangement of the Old World (parts of it) from the New (also parts of it).

    The missing relationship from your list, is that between Iran and the GCC States which surround it.

    These States were not part of any war, until Iran started randomly bombing them on 28th Feb, and are determined to prevent this situation recurring in future.

    Until very recently, Qatar was an Iranian ally, and the source of significant funds that ended up funding various Iranian proxies around the region, much to the disdain of their fellow GCC members. The World Cup very nearly didn’t happen, and forced the Qaratis to compromise. Now Iran is very much the enemy of everyone else in the region. Now Qatar has to rebuild significant O&G facilities.

    My suspicion is that, if Iran tries to toll the Straight, the GCC will use military force to avoid the tolls.
    Iran didn't start "randomly bombing them". The US attacked Iran and Iran bombed countries with US bases (Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan) or supporting the US. Iran didn't bomb Yemen!
    But they didn’t target the US bases. They targetted energy and civilian infrastructure.

    Target US bases. Fair enough. The US was the aggressor after all. Civilian infrastructure less so, but then the US and Israel does that too.
    I'm not seeking to justify Iran's actions. I'm just saying Iran's actions were not random. They were largely deliberate and sent a clear message to the GCC and other countries. They (largely) chose what countries to attack and what to attack in those countries.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,883
    MelonB said:

    Somewhat disconcertingly, here in deep rural France the air raid siren has just started up…

    Not the Germans again?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,904

    MelonB said:

    Somewhat disconcertingly, here in deep rural France the air raid siren has just started up…

    Not the Germans again?
    Historically more likely to be the British and the Yanks.
  • Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,883
    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2041811745296060529

    Major coordinated sabotage attack against French defense companies supplying Ukraine.

    3 attacks against electrical infrastructure in Bourges disrupted production at KNDS & MBDA, affecting Caesar self-propelled howitzers, 155 mm artillery shells & SCALP cruise missiles
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880
    edited April 8
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
    If Trump had deployed ground troops he could have removed the regime without nukes but he couldn't be bothered to see through what he started as usual
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,521
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Chairman of the Knesset National Security Committee Tzvika Foghel has just deleted this moments after posting it:

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3mixzonfsqc2w
  • Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    The war has been largely a debacle but I’m not sure we can conclude America is now worse off vis a vis Iran. We don’t know how much America and Israel have degraded Iranian military and infrastructure. It may be very substantial and it’s set back Iran’s nuclear programme by a decade

    What we can say is that Trump’s insane behaviour and speech has degraded American standing in the world, and seriously eroded the goodwill of its allies

    And again China comes out looking like the more serious and powerful player, enabling peace. As it was apparently China which persuaded Iran to accept the ceasefire and open the Straits
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    edited April 8

    MelonB said:

    Somewhat disconcertingly, here in deep rural France the air raid siren has just started up…

    Not the Germans again?
    The hamlet’s resident German, Barbara, has tended to limit herself to raising horses in the surrounding fields. To date, at least.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
    If Trump had deployed ground troops he could have removed the regime without nukes but he couldn't be bothered to see through what he started as usual
    I don’t think that’s true. A ground invasion would have to be enormous to seize and hold Iran. 100,000s of troops. With grotesque casualties

    Even then, not certain to win
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    @patrickwintour

    To spell it out, Trump needlessly started a war at the urging of Israel, refused to listen to those experts urging caution, devised a strategy built on a misapprehension of Iran, sparked a ruinous regional conflict, caused the death of thousands of civilians, unhinged the world economy, strengthened, for now, the repressive instincts of the Iranian and Russian governments, left America more discredited & isolated, provoked serious questions about the President’s fitness for public office, laid waste to large parts of Iran and Lebanon, including medical research centres, primary schools and universities, did not resolve Iran’s stockpiles of highly enriched uranium or its future nuclear program, strengthened those in Iran backing possession of a nuclear weapon, and yes ensured Iran and Oman still plan to control and toll the Strait of Hormuz for the first time.

    https://x.com/patrickwintour/status/2041745653374534028


    Yeh, but other than that, it's a triumph right?
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    I assume with 2 weeks of ceasefire and open straits we’re going to get a huge flotilla of tankers out of the Gulf, as exporters make up for lost time and ship out as much as humanly possible. Interesting to see to what extent production can be accelerated during this window too.

    If the ceasefire then holds and the straits stay open, we’re possibly going to see surplus oil bunkered up in tankers and quite a rapid price drop.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,523
    edited April 8
    Off out in the sun, but one subcurrent from the Christian Nationalist side.

    A fascinating analysis of the structure of the Christian Nationalists, and the rivalry for what comes after Trump. There are three streams:

    1 - Hegseth, founded in a Reformed type doctrine. Think South Africa Dutch Reformed Church / Northern Ireland Protestant for the style. They want to build a "Christian Society" on their pattern, over the very long term. Racism, male headship.

    2 - Paula White - Trump's faith adviser. Independent charismatic (miracles, prophecy, speaking in tongues) church leaders with many thousands of people, and perhaps a TV programme. Showbusiness and sometimes proven con-trickery. Wanting Christ to return pronto, so keen on the recreation of Israel (as in eg the Book of Revelation). White is Trump's adviser, so controls who gets to see him.

    3 - JD Vance. Born again Roman Catholic with his own strange opinions (disagrees with the Pope and the Bishops). Is hankering after Traditionalist Roman Catholicism, as in pre-1960 (clericalism, Latin Mass, perhaps more Papacy if he gets one he likes). Linked to that is a desire for Roman Catholic political power - remember the Papal States and Constantine, which is the 'integralist' angle. This stream has focussed on the Supreme Court via Leonard Leo (Federalist Society). 6 from 9 Scotus Judges are Roman Catholic - compared to 20% of the population.

    I'm not entirely with it (I've added a bit of my own to point 3), but it seems to be a sound basic yardstick. That uneasy alliance may break down.

    About 10-20 minutes depending how much you follow. Trigger warning: picture of Hegseth tattoos.

    https://youtu.be/LFUj105fPhc?t=112
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    Ceasefire, what ceasefire?

    https://x.com/sajwani/status/2041818588307497415

    UAE air alarms active this afternoon.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    Leon said:

    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    The war has been largely a debacle but I’m not sure we can conclude America is now worse off vis a vis Iran. We don’t know how much America and Israel have degraded Iranian military and infrastructure. It may be very substantial and it’s set back Iran’s nuclear programme by a decade

    What we can say is that Trump’s insane behaviour and speech has degraded American standing in the world, and seriously eroded the goodwill of its allies

    And again China comes out looking like the more serious and powerful player, enabling peace. As it was apparently China which persuaded Iran to accept the ceasefire and open the Straits
    Agree on China.

    Reinforces the Party view that democracy is a flakey system for government.

    Not sure we know the nuke programme has been put back a decade?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,786

    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    Dementia Don is a loser who has TACOd out.

    25th needed.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965

    @patrickwintour

    To spell it out, Trump needlessly started a war at the urging of Israel, refused to listen to those experts urging caution, devised a strategy built on a misapprehension of Iran, sparked a ruinous regional conflict, caused the death of thousands of civilians, unhinged the world economy, strengthened, for now, the repressive instincts of the Iranian and Russian governments, left America more discredited & isolated, provoked serious questions about the President’s fitness for public office, laid waste to large parts of Iran and Lebanon, including medical research centres, primary schools and universities, did not resolve Iran’s stockpiles of highly enriched uranium or its future nuclear program, strengthened those in Iran backing possession of a nuclear weapon, and yes ensured Iran and Oman still plan to control and toll the Strait of Hormuz for the first time.

    https://x.com/patrickwintour/status/2041745653374534028


    Yeh, but other than that, it's a triumph right?

    No, he also boosted the Russian economy!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    MelonB said:

    MelonB said:

    Somewhat disconcertingly, here in deep rural France the air raid siren has just started up…

    Not the Germans again?
    The hamlet’s resident German, Barbara, has tended to limit herself to raising horses in the surrounding fields. To date, at least.
    You call them horses, she thinks they are cavalry. :smile:

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    From the FT...

    One in eight British residents of the United Arab Emirates has left since Iran launched retaliatory strikes on neighbouring countries in February. Official estimates obtained by the FT show 30,000 British residents — or between 10-15 per cent of the prewar, long-term population — are outside the UAE, raising concerns among school operators banking on growth in student numbers.

    The schools are all doing remote learning, quite a few people are taking advantage of this to book time abroad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880
    edited April 8
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
    If Trump had deployed ground troops he could have removed the regime without nukes but he couldn't be bothered to see through what he started as usual
    I don’t think that’s true. A ground invasion would have to be enormous to seize and hold Iran. 100,000s of troops. With grotesque casualties

    Even then, not certain to win
    It would win and could have restored the son of the Shah but would need commitment of enough US troops to ensure that which Trump was not willing to do
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
    If Trump had deployed ground troops he could have removed the regime without nukes but he couldn't be bothered to see through what he started as usual
    I don’t think that’s true. A ground invasion would have to be enormous to seize and hold Iran. 100,000s of troops. With grotesque casualties

    Even then, not certain to win
    I think he would have gone nuke rather than do ground invasion.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,181
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
    If Trump had deployed ground troops he could have removed the regime without nukes but he couldn't be bothered to see through what he started as usual
    I think that is far too optimistic

    How may ground troops and how many US body bags ?

    Other than Kharg Island, ground troops was never a starter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880
    edited April 8
    Leon said:

    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    The war has been largely a debacle but I’m not sure we can conclude America is now worse off vis a vis Iran. We don’t know how much America and Israel have degraded Iranian military and infrastructure. It may be very substantial and it’s set back Iran’s nuclear programme by a decade

    What we can say is that Trump’s insane behaviour and speech has degraded American standing in the world, and seriously eroded the goodwill of its allies

    And again China comes out looking like the more serious and powerful player, enabling peace. As it was apparently China which persuaded Iran to accept the ceasefire and open the Straits
    Unlike the US though China is unwilling to intervene militarily in the Middle East or indeed anywhere outside of Far East Asia.

    China wants global economic power and to export goods and lend funds repaid with interest globally but it has zero interest being the world's policeman as the US was in the 20th century. It might pursue diplomatic paths to settle conflicts but that is it
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Perhaps to no one's great surprise, Washington and Tehran looked over the edge, into the abyss, and didn't much like what they saw.

    Should we also note the role of China in all this? The Chinese were set to be big losers from a prolonged disruption of oil supplies or rather from having to buy oil intended for other countries at higher prices.

    To save face, China gets its one of its allies to propose the ceasefire but at a point when enough people wanted and needed all this to stop.

    And so, it seems, it has - for now and it will be interesting to see if oil prices return to what they were or whether the $90 a barrel world has arrived.

    Everyone will claim victory and in a sense everybody has won something - well, not the dead Iranian, Israeli, Lebanese and others but everyone who matters -or at least has won enough to save face in the eyes of the world community and their electorates (delete as applicable).

    The longer term implications are the tough ones - the Iranian regime, hated as it is, has endured, seemingly. The hawks have missed their victory but relations between America and the rest of the world and Israel and the rest of the world and perhaps between America and Israel will not be the same.

    I suspect when the European media gets back into Iran and is shown the destruction wrought by Washington and Tel Aviv, this will accelerate the increasing estrangement of the Old World (parts of it) from the New (also parts of it).

    The missing relationship from your list, is that between Iran and the GCC States which surround it.

    These States were not part of any war, until Iran started randomly bombing them on 28th Feb, and are determined to prevent this situation recurring in future.

    Until very recently, Qatar was an Iranian ally, and the source of significant funds that ended up funding various Iranian proxies around the region, much to the disdain of their fellow GCC members. The World Cup very nearly didn’t happen, and forced the Qaratis to compromise. Now Iran is very much the enemy of everyone else in the region. Now Qatar has to rebuild significant O&G facilities.

    My suspicion is that, if Iran tries to toll the Straight, the GCC will use military force to avoid the tolls.
    Iran didn't start "randomly bombing them". The US attacked Iran and Iran bombed countries with US bases (Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan) or supporting the US. Iran didn't bomb Yemen!
    Except that the GCC countries made it explicitly clear that no attacks on Iran were to be launched from their territories.

    That Iran chose to start bombing Dubai and Riyadh, is entirely on Iran.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    Nice new Artemis II photo of the Earth: https://x.com/Network_Guy8/status/2041601479354806670?s=20
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,134
    edited April 8

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
    If Trump had deployed ground troops he could have removed the regime without nukes but he couldn't be bothered to see through what he started as usual
    I don’t think that’s true. A ground invasion would have to be enormous to seize and hold Iran. 100,000s of troops. With grotesque casualties

    Even then, not certain to win
    I think he would have gone nuke rather than do ground invasion.

    It’s why I very much hope this isn’t brushed under the carpet by the GOP (what am I saying, of course it will be).

    The precedent this has set for a US president to (impliedly or not) mull over taking extreme civilisation ending steps (the bomb or no) on his dratted social media account, should worry us all.

    Even if he had precisely zero intent to do it, even implying he would in such a reckless manner is quite possibly the worst thing he has ever done, and that comes from a very long list.

    Normalising throwing around such threats is immensely dangerous. If behaviour like that continues someone at some point in the coming years is going to march themselves to the top of the hill and find it very hard to come back down again. And once the genie is out of the bottle, we are in a very different and incredibly dangerous world.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Perhaps to no one's great surprise, Washington and Tehran looked over the edge, into the abyss, and didn't much like what they saw.

    Should we also note the role of China in all this? The Chinese were set to be big losers from a prolonged disruption of oil supplies or rather from having to buy oil intended for other countries at higher prices.

    To save face, China gets its one of its allies to propose the ceasefire but at a point when enough people wanted and needed all this to stop.

    And so, it seems, it has - for now and it will be interesting to see if oil prices return to what they were or whether the $90 a barrel world has arrived.

    Everyone will claim victory and in a sense everybody has won something - well, not the dead Iranian, Israeli, Lebanese and others but everyone who matters -or at least has won enough to save face in the eyes of the world community and their electorates (delete as applicable).

    The longer term implications are the tough ones - the Iranian regime, hated as it is, has endured, seemingly. The hawks have missed their victory but relations between America and the rest of the world and Israel and the rest of the world and perhaps between America and Israel will not be the same.

    I suspect when the European media gets back into Iran and is shown the destruction wrought by Washington and Tel Aviv, this will accelerate the increasing estrangement of the Old World (parts of it) from the New (also parts of it).

    The missing relationship from your list, is that between Iran and the GCC States which surround it.

    These States were not part of any war, until Iran started randomly bombing them on 28th Feb, and are determined to prevent this situation recurring in future.

    Until very recently, Qatar was an Iranian ally, and the source of significant funds that ended up funding various Iranian proxies around the region, much to the disdain of their fellow GCC members. The World Cup very nearly didn’t happen, and forced the Qaratis to compromise. Now Iran is very much the enemy of everyone else in the region. Now Qatar has to rebuild significant O&G facilities.

    My suspicion is that, if Iran tries to toll the Straight, the GCC will use military force to avoid the tolls.
    Iran didn't start "randomly bombing them". The US attacked Iran and Iran bombed countries with US bases (Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan) or supporting the US. Iran didn't bomb Yemen!
    Except that the GCC countries made it explicitly clear that no attacks on Iran were to be launched from their territories.

    That Iran chose to start bombing Dubai and Riyadh, is entirely on Iran.
    It is entirely on Iran, yes. But it wasn't random. It was deliberate and sent a specific message.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    @Sandpit makes a valuable point - the conflict and its impact on the Gulf States.

    It's an inexact parallel (they always are) but the GCC states findthemselves in a place adjacent to that of the European NATO countries.

    I don't know the numbers but I suspect the GCC haven't spent as much on defence as you might imagine given the enormous oil wealth flowing in to these states and the current conflict has exposed vulnerabilities in the protection of crucial infrastructure.

    Obviously, money is no object to buying up and installing more sophisticated anti-missile and other defence systems but the GCC may now see the virtue of acting autonomously - how they will react to Israel going forward I'm less certain, while the enemy of my enemy is my friend (apparently), I detect a required circumspection (had to write that carefully) in terms of relations with Jerusalem.

    Could the GCC emerge as an independent power broker in the region - will they seek a new relationship with a post-NATO Europe which brings in Turkey to the equation? It's a potentially significant and perhaps seismic shift in relationship dynamics across the region.

    Could we see more British, French and other European infrastructure in the region as and if America withdraws to its own backyard?

    Iran is the enemy of the GCC, and has been for nearly half a century now.

    Israel, despite the last couple of years, is now a friend with significant power.

    GCC military spending has been pretty high, but the current conflict has drawn them towards countries like Ukraine who understand that you can’t sustainably launch $3m Patriot missiles against $50k drones except as a last resort over O&G facilities.

    The most significant shift is likely going to be a distaste of Russia in the GCC, countries that have been pretty much neutral on the Russia-Ukraine conflict up until now, benefitting from Russian money fleeing Putin.
    Bibi has said after the conflict is over people will be surprised at the new alliances forged and that Israel and the GCC were moving closer

    I’d well believe it.
    The NYT is reporting that hardline Israeli ministers and the like are furious at Netanyahu for accepting a ceasefire without achieving Israel’s objective of “destroying Iran’s theocratic government”

    Given that the only way Israel could achieve that is by persuading America to nuke Iran, endangering the world, I am now at the stage of Fuck Israel. Fuck em

    Not least because I am likewise persuaded that Israel dragged a foolish Trump into this war in the first place, as was reported and explained very persuasively last night

    It is time for America to divorce Israel
    If Trump had deployed ground troops he could have removed the regime without nukes but he couldn't be bothered to see through what he started as usual
    I don’t think that’s true. A ground invasion would have to be enormous to seize and hold Iran. 100,000s of troops. With grotesque casualties

    Even then, not certain to win
    For all his many faults, Trump doesn’t want to see planeloads of coffins land in the US every week, as happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. He’s always been clear on that point.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/rosskempsell/status/2041790882895011986

    Starmer has immediately flown to the Middle East to emphasise his crucial role in the US-Iran ceasefire, which he didn’t broker, didn’t know was coming, didn’t participate in shaping and had absolutely no part in whatsoever

    Fake news. The visit was planned beforehand.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,259
    MattW said:

    Off out in the sun, but one subcurrent from the Christian Nationalist side.

    A fascinating analysis of the structure of the Christian Nationalists, and the rivalry for what comes after Trump. There are three streams:

    1 - Hegseth, founded in a Reformed type doctrine. Think South Africa Dutch Reformed Church / Northern Ireland Protestant for the style. They want to build a "Christian Society" on their pattern, over the very long term. Racism, male headship.

    2 - Paula White - Trump's faith adviser. Independent charismatic (miracles, prophecy, speaking in tongues) church leaders with many thousands of people, and perhaps a TV programme. Showbusiness and sometimes proven con-trickery. Wanting Christ to return pronto, so keen on the recreation of Israel (as in eg the Book of Revelation). White is Trump's adviser, so controls who gets to see him.

    3 - JD Vance. Born again Roman Catholic with his own strange opinions (disagrees with the Pope and the Bishops). Is hankering after Traditionalist Roman Catholicism, as in pre-1960 (clericalism, Latin Mass, perhaps more Papacy if he gets one he likes). Linked to that is a desire for Roman Catholic political power - remember the Papal States and Constantine, which is the 'integralist' angle. This stream has focussed on the Supreme Court via Leonard Leo (Federalist Society). 6 from 9 Scotus Judges are Roman Catholic - compared to 20% of the population.

    I'm not entirely with it (I've added a bit of my own to point 3), but it seems to be a sound basic yardstick. That uneasy alliance may break down.

    About 10-20 minutes depending how much you follow. Trigger warning: picture of Hegseth tattoos.

    https://youtu.be/LFUj105fPhc?t=112

    Hesgeth will win it. Significant number of US Presidents have links to Scots Irish from the North.

    It’s the way they tell’em
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880
    edited April 8
    RFM: 30% (=)
    LAB: 20% (+1)
    CON: 19% (-2)
    GRN: 12% (=)
    LDM: 12% (+1)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via
    @Moreincommon_
    , 2-7 Apr.
    Changes w/ 28-30 Mar.

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/2041791751099187693?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689

    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/rosskempsell/status/2041790882895011986

    Starmer has immediately flown to the Middle East to emphasise his crucial role in the US-Iran ceasefire, which he didn’t broker, didn’t know was coming, didn’t participate in shaping and had absolutely no part in whatsoever

    Fake news. The visit was planned beforehand.
    Link?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,880
    'Before you cheer for this so called ceasefire, consider this:

    As an Iranian, I would genuinely feel much better waking up tomorrow to absolutely no water, no power, and no gas, than waking up to a perfectly functioning grid just to realize we still have the mullahs alongside it.

    That is how vile our captors are. We can survive the dark. We cannot survive your "peace."'

    https://x.com/ItsDecado/status/2041747071066165553?s=20
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,446
    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    A long but significant post from a Ukranian journalist, about multiculturalism in their country.

    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1928486620736717289

    Closing paragraphs:

    The more you look at the world, the more often you realize how much healthier Ukrainian society has become when it comes to coexistence between nationalities and faiths.

    We weren’t always like this. We are becoming this now — as the country is being radically transformed by revolution and by the defense against imperial Russia.

    We are shedding the weight of so many remnants of the past — really fast.

    Thank you, that's inspiring. Nothing like a common enemy for drawing people together.
    It’s remarkably similar to what’s been seen in the UAE in recent weeks.

    Also the Artemis moon flyby, which briefly united the world (apart from one Guardian hack) in seeing what humanity can do.
    Yes, I remember when the Apollo mission was in trouble (was it 13) it was as if the whole world was praying or wishing them a safe return.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/rosskempsell/status/2041790882895011986

    Starmer has immediately flown to the Middle East to emphasise his crucial role in the US-Iran ceasefire, which he didn’t broker, didn’t know was coming, didn’t participate in shaping and had absolutely no part in whatsoever

    Fake news. The visit was planned beforehand.
    Link?
    There’s one given in the Twitter thread.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,904
    Actually quite convincing if a little short arsed.

    🇾🇪 Yemeni couples are now hiring Trump impersonators for their weddings.🤣🤣🤣🤣

    https://x.com/dd_geopolitics/status/2041607191380082793?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,961
    Will Starmer be waving a piece of paper saying Peace in our Time?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,883
    Sandpit said:

    Ceasefire, what ceasefire?

    https://x.com/sajwani/status/2041818588307497415

    UAE air alarms active this afternoon.

    Will everyone pretend the ceasefire is still in effect while continuing to bomb each other, defensively of course?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,159
    HYUFD said:

    'Before you cheer for this so called ceasefire, consider this:

    As an Iranian, I would genuinely feel much better waking up tomorrow to absolutely no water, no power, and no gas, than waking up to a perfectly functioning grid just to realize we still have the mullahs alongside it.

    That is how vile our captors are. We can survive the dark. We cannot survive your "peace."'

    https://x.com/ItsDecado/status/2041747071066165553?s=20

    And the global economy can survive the war ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,904
    HYUFD said:

    'Before you cheer for this so called ceasefire, consider this:

    As an Iranian, I would genuinely feel much better waking up tomorrow to absolutely no water, no power, and no gas, than waking up to a perfectly functioning grid just to realize we still have the mullahs alongside it.

    That is how vile our captors are. We can survive the dark. We cannot survive your "peace."'

    https://x.com/ItsDecado/status/2041747071066165553?s=20

    Since Mr Decado resides in Germany I don’t think there’s much chance of him waking up to absolutely no water, no power, and no gas.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,357
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    A long but significant post from a Ukranian journalist, about multiculturalism in their country.

    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1928486620736717289

    Closing paragraphs:

    The more you look at the world, the more often you realize how much healthier Ukrainian society has become when it comes to coexistence between nationalities and faiths.

    We weren’t always like this. We are becoming this now — as the country is being radically transformed by revolution and by the defense against imperial Russia.

    We are shedding the weight of so many remnants of the past — really fast.

    Thank you, that's inspiring. Nothing like a common enemy for drawing people together.
    It’s remarkably similar to what’s been seen in the UAE in recent weeks.

    Also the Artemis moon flyby, which briefly united the world (apart from one Guardian hack) in seeing what humanity can do.
    Yes, I remember when the Apollo mission was in trouble (was it 13) it was as if the whole world was praying or wishing them a safe return.
    I'm not sure that many people care about Artemis. It's just another rocket when we've become used to watching Elon's launches every few weeks. It will be interesting to see the ratings.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,357

    Will Starmer be waving a piece of paper saying Peace in our Time?

    Chamberlain significantly boosted defence spending while working for peace – everything from Spitfires to gas masks. Starmer talked about it once.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,523
    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    Off out in the sun, but one subcurrent from the Christian Nationalist side.

    A fascinating analysis of the structure of the Christian Nationalists, and the rivalry for what comes after Trump. There are three streams:

    1 - Hegseth, founded in a Reformed type doctrine. Think South Africa Dutch Reformed Church / Northern Ireland Protestant for the style. They want to build a "Christian Society" on their pattern, over the very long term. Racism, male headship.

    2 - Paula White - Trump's faith adviser. Independent charismatic (miracles, prophecy, speaking in tongues) church leaders with many thousands of people, and perhaps a TV programme. Showbusiness and sometimes proven con-trickery. Wanting Christ to return pronto, so keen on the recreation of Israel (as in eg the Book of Revelation). White is Trump's adviser, so controls who gets to see him.

    3 - JD Vance. Born again Roman Catholic with his own strange opinions (disagrees with the Pope and the Bishops). Is hankering after Traditionalist Roman Catholicism, as in pre-1960 (clericalism, Latin Mass, perhaps more Papacy if he gets one he likes). Linked to that is a desire for Roman Catholic political power - remember the Papal States and Constantine, which is the 'integralist' angle. This stream has focussed on the Supreme Court via Leonard Leo (Federalist Society). 6 from 9 Scotus Judges are Roman Catholic - compared to 20% of the population.

    I'm not entirely with it (I've added a bit of my own to point 3), but it seems to be a sound basic yardstick. That uneasy alliance may break down.

    About 10-20 minutes depending how much you follow. Trigger warning: picture of Hegseth tattoos.

    https://youtu.be/LFUj105fPhc?t=112

    Hesgeth will win it. Significant number of US Presidents have links to Scots Irish from the North.

    It’s the way they tell’em
    Hardcore Christian Nationalists are put at 10-15% in polling - the rest are more "God Bless America" types, rather than going beyond the slogan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,689
    edited April 8
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    A long but significant post from a Ukranian journalist, about multiculturalism in their country.

    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1928486620736717289

    Closing paragraphs:

    The more you look at the world, the more often you realize how much healthier Ukrainian society has become when it comes to coexistence between nationalities and faiths.

    We weren’t always like this. We are becoming this now — as the country is being radically transformed by revolution and by the defense against imperial Russia.

    We are shedding the weight of so many remnants of the past — really fast.

    Thank you, that's inspiring. Nothing like a common enemy for drawing people together.
    It’s remarkably similar to what’s been seen in the UAE in recent weeks.

    Also the Artemis moon flyby, which briefly united the world (apart from one Guardian hack) in seeing what humanity can do.
    Yes, I remember when the Apollo mission was in trouble (was it 13) it was as if the whole world was praying or wishing them a safe return.
    Yes Apollo 13, in 1970.

    I was born in 1977, only five years after Apollo but might as well have been 50 years given my lack of cultural references to it.

    I do however remember the Challenger disaster in 1986, when I was eight years old. John Craven’s Newsround, which was a lot better than the hundreds of thousands of American kids who watched it live in schools thanks to the ‘teacher in space’ programme, that had spent months looking forward to Christina McAuliffe’s lessons from space.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,261
    I'm having problems viewing PB on Chrome for Android. This morning there were 0 comments and I had to view on Vanilla, and now that is fixed but I have had problems scrolling for the last couple of days, the site seems "sticky" and I can scroll one or two times and it gets stuck. This may be connected with a recent Android update which caused other problems including deleting all my pinned web shortcuts apart from those that identify as apps
  • I assume I'm not the only one having problems with the normal PB.com site
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,342

    I'm having problems viewing PB on Chrome for Android. This morning there were 0 comments and I had to view on Vanilla, and now that is fixed but I have had problems scrolling for the last couple of days, the site seems "sticky" and I can scroll one or two times and it gets stuck. This may be connected with a recent Android update which caused other problems including deleting all my pinned web shortcuts apart from those that identify as apps

    We're having increasing issues with Android. Multiple occasions where apps like Sumup or Shopify abruptly stop working properly on Android tablets but work fine on iPad...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380

    I assume I'm not the only one having problems with the normal PB.com site

    No - me also.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    Trouble brewing in Israel?



    5) Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are already threatening that they will collapse the government if the two-week pause transitions into a permanent arrangement without the full dismantling of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure.

    https://x.com/academic_la/status/2041787798437687370
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,342
    I can't see how this "ceasefire" holds when all sides have a different view as to what it covers...
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,159

    Trouble brewing in Israel?



    5) Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are already threatening that they will collapse the government if the two-week pause transitions into a permanent arrangement without the full dismantling of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure.

    https://x.com/academic_la/status/2041787798437687370

    Warmongers gonna warmonger.

    Fuck them

    Let them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,380
    Phil Stewart
    @phildstewart

    Vance described the situation as a "fragile truce":

    https://x.com/phildstewart/status/2041834717394121067
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,671
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Perhaps to no one's great surprise, Washington and Tehran looked over the edge, into the abyss, and didn't much like what they saw.

    Should we also note the role of China in all this? The Chinese were set to be big losers from a prolonged disruption of oil supplies or rather from having to buy oil intended for other countries at higher prices.

    To save face, China gets its one of its allies to propose the ceasefire but at a point when enough people wanted and needed all this to stop.

    And so, it seems, it has - for now and it will be interesting to see if oil prices return to what they were or whether the $90 a barrel world has arrived.

    Everyone will claim victory and in a sense everybody has won something - well, not the dead Iranian, Israeli, Lebanese and others but everyone who matters -or at least has won enough to save face in the eyes of the world community and their electorates (delete as applicable).

    The longer term implications are the tough ones - the Iranian regime, hated as it is, has endured, seemingly. The hawks have missed their victory but relations between America and the rest of the world and Israel and the rest of the world and perhaps between America and Israel will not be the same.

    I suspect when the European media gets back into Iran and is shown the destruction wrought by Washington and Tel Aviv, this will accelerate the increasing estrangement of the Old World (parts of it) from the New (also parts of it).

    The missing relationship from your list, is that between Iran and the GCC States which surround it.

    These States were not part of any war, until Iran started randomly bombing them on 28th Feb, and are determined to prevent this situation recurring in future.

    Until very recently, Qatar was an Iranian ally, and the source of significant funds that ended up funding various Iranian proxies around the region, much to the disdain of their fellow GCC members. The World Cup very nearly didn’t happen, and forced the Qaratis to compromise. Now Iran is very much the enemy of everyone else in the region. Now Qatar has to rebuild significant O&G facilities.

    My suspicion is that, if Iran tries to toll the Straight, the GCC will use military force to avoid the tolls.
    Iran didn't start "randomly bombing them". The US attacked Iran and Iran bombed countries with US bases (Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan) or supporting the US. Iran didn't bomb Yemen!
    But they didn’t target the US bases. They targeted energy and civilian infrastructure.

    Target US bases. Fair enough. The US was the aggressor after all. Civilian infrastructure less so, but then the US and Israel does that too.
    If you're talking international law, sure.

    But what brought Trump to the ceasefire table was the targeting of the world economy via the Gulf states' energy infrastructure. "Fair" isn't a concept recognised by Iran's regime.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,883

    Phil Stewart
    @phildstewart

    Vance described the situation as a "fragile truce":

    https://x.com/phildstewart/status/2041834717394121067

    The stretched twig of peace is at breaking point.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/2041826268392374459

    Strikes hit an Iranian oil refinery on Lavan Island today.

    Iran is now retaliating with strikes on targets in Kuwait, Bahrain, and the UAE.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,259

    Trouble brewing in Israel?



    5) Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are already threatening that they will collapse the government if the two-week pause transitions into a permanent arrangement without the full dismantling of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure.

    https://x.com/academic_la/status/2041787798437687370

    Since these two are unlikely to be in the next government then they are playing on Netanyahu’s fears of being prosecuted
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,671
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    A long but significant post from a Ukranian journalist, about multiculturalism in their country.

    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1928486620736717289

    Closing paragraphs:

    The more you look at the world, the more often you realize how much healthier Ukrainian society has become when it comes to coexistence between nationalities and faiths.

    We weren’t always like this. We are becoming this now — as the country is being radically transformed by revolution and by the defense against imperial Russia.

    We are shedding the weight of so many remnants of the past — really fast.

    Thank you, that's inspiring. Nothing like a common enemy for drawing people together.
    It’s remarkably similar to what’s been seen in the UAE in recent weeks.

    Also the Artemis moon flyby, which briefly united the world (apart from one Guardian hack) in seeing what humanity can do.
    Yes, I remember when the Apollo mission was in trouble (was it 13) it was as if the whole world was praying or wishing them a safe return.
    I remember watching the first moon landing in glorious, fuzzy black and white.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,305

    I assume I'm not the only one having problems with the normal PB.com site

    No - me also.
    Me three.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,784

    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/rosskempsell/status/2041790882895011986

    Starmer has immediately flown to the Middle East to emphasise his crucial role in the US-Iran ceasefire, which he didn’t broker, didn’t know was coming, didn’t participate in shaping and had absolutely no part in whatsoever

    Fake news. The visit was planned beforehand.
    I believe you. He likes flying to foreign countries to speak to foreign people about issues he can't control and isn't held responsible for. So much better than working.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/rosskempsell/status/2041790882895011986

    Starmer has immediately flown to the Middle East to emphasise his crucial role in the US-Iran ceasefire, which he didn’t broker, didn’t know was coming, didn’t participate in shaping and had absolutely no part in whatsoever

    Fake news. The visit was planned beforehand.
    I believe you. He likes flying to foreign countries to speak to foreign people about issues he can't control and isn't held responsible for. So much better than working.
    I would assume there is going to be a bit of a scramble for shipping priority over the next two weeks? In that he can probably make a difference, at the margins, and probably should be trying to.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,181

    I assume I'm not the only one having problems with the normal PB.com site

    No - me also.
    And me
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467
    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tres said:

    vanilla forums don't like my phone browser of choice no more, gets stuck on infinite cloudfare are you a BOT? loop

    I'll flag this up to Robert.

    Which browser and OS are you using?
    I got one this morning, first time ever, on vf.pb.com

    iPad OS 26.4 beta, with one of those not-physical and not-public networks enabled.

    The same has happened on a number of other websites in recent days, it’s a general Cloudflare thing rather than anything specifically Vanilla-related.
    You may be right. I remember now I got in a loop trying to access archive.is last week too.
    I have had it on various sites last week or so , just says checking not a robot and takes 5 seconds or so and goes ahead
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,593
    MelonB said:

    I assume with 2 weeks of ceasefire and open straits we’re going to get a huge flotilla of tankers out of the Gulf, as exporters make up for lost time and ship out as much as humanly possible. Interesting to see to what extent production can be accelerated during this window too.

    If the ceasefire then holds and the straits stay open, we’re possibly going to see surplus oil bunkered up in tankers and quite a rapid price drop.

    I suspect we will also now see a glut of new proposed pipeline projects across the Arabian peninsula.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467

    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    9 wars stopped as well, Nobel Peace prize a certainty
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    malcolmg said:

    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    9 wars stopped as well, Nobel Peace prize a certainty
    I feel a Nobel Peace Prize is not enough. Maybe they could create a new Hall of Fame Lifetime Achievement Nobel/FIFA Peace Prize just for him?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    A long but significant post from a Ukranian journalist, about multiculturalism in their country.

    https://x.com/iaponomarenko/status/1928486620736717289

    Closing paragraphs:

    The more you look at the world, the more often you realize how much healthier Ukrainian society has become when it comes to coexistence between nationalities and faiths.

    We weren’t always like this. We are becoming this now — as the country is being radically transformed by revolution and by the defense against imperial Russia.

    We are shedding the weight of so many remnants of the past — really fast.

    Thank you, that's inspiring. Nothing like a common enemy for drawing people together.
    It’s remarkably similar to what’s been seen in the UAE in recent weeks.

    Also the Artemis moon flyby, which briefly united the world (apart from one Guardian hack) in seeing what humanity can do.
    Yes, I remember when the Apollo mission was in trouble (was it 13) it was as if the whole world was praying or wishing them a safe return.
    I'm not sure that many people care about Artemis. It's just another rocket when we've become used to watching Elon's launches every few weeks. It will be interesting to see the ratings.
    the one where they land people on moon will be of great interest for sure.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,904
    The White House staff seem rather tetchy. I get that Owen can be a bit irritating but I would have thought that traditionally the WH director of comms should be above screeching obscenities at him.

    You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about you loser. Go back to whatever hole you crawled out of because you clearly can’t read

    https://x.com/stevencheung47/status/2041672624866996635?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 931

    Battlebus said:

    Has the world been destroyed yet?

    Yes but PB survived.
    Outstanding!
    Online cockroaches....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467

    Actually quite convincing if a little short arsed.

    🇾🇪 Yemeni couples are now hiring Trump impersonators for their weddings.🤣🤣🤣🤣

    https://x.com/dd_geopolitics/status/2041607191380082793?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    https://www.tiktok.com/@stevengalloni/video/7514264774742428950
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,784

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/rosskempsell/status/2041790882895011986

    Starmer has immediately flown to the Middle East to emphasise his crucial role in the US-Iran ceasefire, which he didn’t broker, didn’t know was coming, didn’t participate in shaping and had absolutely no part in whatsoever

    Fake news. The visit was planned beforehand.
    I believe you. He likes flying to foreign countries to speak to foreign people about issues he can't control and isn't held responsible for. So much better than working.
    I would assume there is going to be a bit of a scramble for shipping priority over the next two weeks? In that he can probably make a difference, at the margins, and probably should be trying to.
    Oh, fair point. I was responding to bondegezou's point that the trip had been planned beforehand.

    Plus I have to point out that that's the job of the Foreign Secretary, surely. Elsewise what is Yvette Cooper for exactly?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,965
    Penddu2 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Has the world been destroyed yet?

    Yes but PB survived.
    Outstanding!
    Online cockroaches....
    With threads like, “How will the death of 90% of the population affect the forthcoming Mayoral elections?”
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,467
    Leon said:

    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    The war has been largely a debacle but I’m not sure we can conclude America is now worse off vis a vis Iran. We don’t know how much America and Israel have degraded Iranian military and infrastructure. It may be very substantial and it’s set back Iran’s nuclear programme by a decade

    What we can say is that Trump’s insane behaviour and speech has degraded American standing in the world, and seriously eroded the goodwill of its allies

    And again China comes out looking like the more serious and powerful player, enabling peace. As it was apparently China which persuaded Iran to accept the ceasefire and open the Straits
    Has shown that USA are all talk and cannot beat a small middle east country. China must be laughing up their cuffs.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,181
    Trump all over the place

    I am not at all sure this ceasefire will hold

    There are malign actors in Iran and Israel that seem to want it to fail and continue hostilities


    No enrichment of uranium in Iran, Trump says - as he reveals extended 15-point plan

    Donald Trump has rejected one of Iran's key points for the ceasefire agreement.

    Posting on Truth Social, the Trump says the US will "work closely" with Iran but "There will be no enrichment of Uranium".

    One of the features of 10-point peace plan previously reported by Iranian state media was the country's right to enrich.

    The US president does agree with some of the other points, however, saying Washington will be "talking Tariff and Sanctions relief" with Tehran.

    In a variation to what's been reported already, Trump says many of the "15" points have already been agreed to.

    Minutes later, Trump outlines a punishment from the US for supplying Iran with military weapons in a follow-up post

    50% tariff on all goods, "effective immediately".

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,547
    a

    Penddu2 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Has the world been destroyed yet?

    Yes but PB survived.
    Outstanding!
    Online cockroaches....
    With threads like, “How will the death of 90% of the population affect the forthcoming Mayoral elections?”
    Fake news.

    It would be 99.98%
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,159
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Morning all,

    After two weeks of negotiations the US is going to end up with a deal that is no better and likely to be substantially worse than the situation that pertained before Trump and Isreal kicked off this madness would be my prediction.

    Still the Aberdeen hotelier will be happy as his aides have told him it is a peace deal for the ages.

    The war has been largely a debacle but I’m not sure we can conclude America is now worse off vis a vis Iran. We don’t know how much America and Israel have degraded Iranian military and infrastructure. It may be very substantial and it’s set back Iran’s nuclear programme by a decade

    What we can say is that Trump’s insane behaviour and speech has degraded American standing in the world, and seriously eroded the goodwill of its allies

    And again China comes out looking like the more serious and powerful player, enabling peace. As it was apparently China which persuaded Iran to accept the ceasefire and open the Straits
    Has shown that USA are all talk and cannot beat a small middle east country. China must be laughing up their cuffs.
    Israel too are struggling. They wouldn’t commit to boots on the ground in Iran, the US needs to do their bidding.

    They’re also struggling to go further in Lebanon.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 931
    Is there a betting market yet on whether Trump will win the Nobel peace prize ? Possibly shared with Bibi (posthumously ?)
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 931

    a

    Penddu2 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Has the world been destroyed yet?

    Yes but PB survived.
    Outstanding!
    Online cockroaches....
    With threads like, “How will the death of 90% of the population affect the forthcoming Mayoral elections?”
    Fake news.

    It would be 99.98%
    The remaining 0.02% representing a Welsh subsample
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,523
    Canadian View: (Tod Maffin):

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8GJrkEqAdLY

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958

    The White House staff seem rather tetchy. I get that Owen can be a bit irritating but I would have thought that traditionally the WH director of comms should be above screeching obscenities at him.

    You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about you loser. Go back to whatever hole you crawled out of because you clearly can’t read

    https://x.com/stevencheung47/status/2041672624866996635?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Had to check it wasnt a parody account, really, this is a WH comms director? May as well just let angry teenage boys take turns as work experience and ask them to be as annoying as possible.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,659
    Sandpit said:

    From the FT...

    One in eight British residents of the United Arab Emirates has left since Iran launched retaliatory strikes on neighbouring countries in February. Official estimates obtained by the FT show 30,000 British residents — or between 10-15 per cent of the prewar, long-term population — are outside the UAE, raising concerns among school operators banking on growth in student numbers.

    The schools are all doing remote learning, quite a few people are taking advantage of this to book time abroad.
    it's the teachers I heard that are deciding to leave
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,180
    "Jake Wallis Simons
    Trump gambled on Iran and he won
    The US president used the wiles of a street fighter to pull a ceasefire deal out of the bag" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/08/iran-is-still-too-dangerous-to-accept-a-permanent-ceasefire/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,883
    https://x.com/kelliemeyernews/status/2041841545628787115

    President Trump says any country supplying weapons to Iran will be “immediately tariffed on any and all goods sold to the United States of America, 50%, effective immediately.”
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    Penddu2 said:

    Is there a betting market yet on whether Trump will win the Nobel peace prize ? Possibly shared with Bibi (posthumously ?)

    Of course:

    https://kalshi.com/markets/kxnobelpeace/nobel-peace-prize/kxnobelpeace-26

    Trading at 5-6% chance.
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