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Cutting taxes can be not putting them up as much says Nigel Farage – politicalbetting.com

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  • glwglw Posts: 10,815

    eek said:

    Brixian59 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I’ll be honest I’m very supportive of the government’s changes to jury trials.

    It makes sense to me. And the criticisms seem very bad faith.
    Who created the backlog
    Who closed the Courts
    Who reduced Prison spaces
    Why is there a log jam

    Which Tory Minister or Reform Minister if they have jumped ship would like to answer

    Crisis of Tory making

    Pragmatic solutions required
    The delays have nothing to do with juries, according to a number of judges and lawyers.
    The delays are the typical story of everything running at capacity so when things go wrong, there is a delay of months until the combination of lawyers and judges are available again.

    See https://bsky.app/profile/lizziedearden.bsky.social/post/3mg32x5thxs2e for an story from last week.
    I propose a trial run.

    Withdraw the right to a jury trial from

    1) Members of The House Of Commons
    2) Any permanent official who had received and accepted an honour.
    3) All Kings Council

    Beyond satire that a former DPP and someone who literally seems to run his entire government based on international law is the one PM in hundreds of years who plans to get rid of ancient right of jury.
    I don't think Starmer really beleives in anything other than following rules. As long as the rules are followed it doesn't actually matter what the rules are, what values they embody, or why the exist. He's not a bad person per se, but I wouldn't trust him at all in a crisis.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,519
    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    She said the RAF should take out Iranian missile launchers which is perfectly reasonable
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    She denied calling for boots on grounds LIE

    She wittered on about catching arrows

    She then said UK should attack Iran

    So she ended where she claimed she hadn't started

    Confused or what
    You do not understand the catching arrows so make up a story about boots on the ground

    Both Kemi and Debs Haynes, the Sky news defence correspondent uses it as an expression that the launchers need to be eliminated from the air

    Your posts on this are malign and fake
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,442

    One of the main consequences of Trump's decision to attack Iran might be to kick-start Ukraine's defence industry and allow them to monetise the expertise they've gained over the last four years.

    https://x.com/KyivIndependent/status/2031329316416430284

    A Saudi Arabian arms company has signed a deal to buy Ukrainian-made interceptor missiles, the Kyiv Independent has learned, with one source within Ukraine's defense industry saying that Riyadh and Kyiv are negotiating a separate "huge deal" for arms that could be finalized this week.

    More 12D chess from Trump?
    I wonder what Karl Popper would make of Trumpism given it is basically unfalsifiable.
    "Yet instead of accepting the refutations", Popper wrote, "the followers of Marx re-interpreted both the theory and the evidence in order to make them agree. ... They thus gave a 'conventionalist twist' to the theory; and by this stratagem, they destroyed its much advertised claim to scientific status."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,473
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments
    She has been quoted by multiple sources referring to aggressive action and boots on the ground
    None of which you can quote.

    "Malign" doesn't begin to cover it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,023

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,379
    edited 8:25PM
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Why on earth would she even think of those two idiots
    Is HY doing satire?
    Sadly he is not

    Why he thinks Kemi should be chasing little englander right wing votes I do not know.

    Plague on reform - end off
    It isn't Little Englander especially, they tend to be isolationist but being a tough hawklike leader fighting the evil Mullahs and their regime
    I think HY is busy doing something, like out canvassing, unaware his account has been hacked 😕

    What’s being described is Kemi as super heroine in a Manga movie.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    She said the RAF should take out Iranian missile launchers which is perfectly reasonable
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    She denied calling for boots on grounds LIE

    She wittered on about catching arrows

    She then said UK should attack Iran

    So she ended where she claimed she hadn't started

    Confused or what
    You do not understand the catching arrows so make up a story about boots on the ground

    Both Kemi and Debs Haynes, the Sky news defence correspondent uses it as an expression that the launchers need to be eliminated from the air

    Your posts on this are malign and fake
    Motes and beams.

    Remember when you disgracefully misrepresented Sky News and what they said about Starmer and Ukraine.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765
    Poor Antonin Kinsky.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,972
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,347

    One of the main consequences of Trump's decision to attack Iran might be to kick-start Ukraine's defence industry and allow them to monetise the expertise they've gained over the last four years.

    https://x.com/KyivIndependent/status/2031329316416430284

    A Saudi Arabian arms company has signed a deal to buy Ukrainian-made interceptor missiles, the Kyiv Independent has learned, with one source within Ukraine's defense industry saying that Riyadh and Kyiv are negotiating a separate "huge deal" for arms that could be finalized this week.

    More 12D chess from Trump?
    He's remarkable, isn't he. Moving pieces around that ordinary mortals didn't even realise were on the board.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,972
    CatMan said:

    Bloody hell

    "US weighs sending forces into Iran to secure nuclear stockpile, reports say"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/10/us-weighs-sending-forces-into-iran-to-secure-nuclear-stockpile-reports-say

    STARMER- NO!

    It's not your rodeo.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,519
    edited 8:24PM

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    She said the RAF should take out Iranian missile launchers which is perfectly reasonable
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    She denied calling for boots on grounds LIE

    She wittered on about catching arrows

    She then said UK should attack Iran

    So she ended where she claimed she hadn't started

    Confused or what
    You do not understand the catching arrows so make up a story about boots on the ground

    Both Kemi and Debs Haynes, the Sky news defence correspondent uses it as an expression that the launchers need to be eliminated from the air

    Your posts on this are malign and fake
    Motes and beams.

    Remember when you disgracefully misrepresented Sky News and what they said about Starmer and Ukraine.
    You see the difference is I made a full apology for that misunderstanding and when I am wrong I do the right thing

    Not sure why you even raise it without also refering to my apology to be fair
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,466
    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,719
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,354

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Why on earth would she even think of those two idiots
    Is HY doing satire?
    Sadly he is not

    Why he thinks Kemi should be chasing little englander right wing votes I do not know.

    Plague on reform - end off
    It isn't Little Englander especially, they tend to be isolationist but being a tough hawklike leader fighting the evil Mullahs and their regime
    I think HY is busy doing something, like out canvassing, unaware his account has been hacked 😕
    Little Mr Angry?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,107

    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
    You have a much higher tolerance of inanity than I do. Badenoch is highly disingenuous.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765

    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
    It's amusing, it's the kind of technicalities I thrive on professionally.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,347
    edited 8:29PM

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Yes, it's an 'Epic Fury' computer game as per the stuff they're putting out. So far missing the bit where the girls school was obliterated with maximum intensity but I suppose it will be in the next release. I wonder what the music will be for that. Very stirring no doubt.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,354

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Were Hegseth and Max Headroom separated at birth?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,023

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
    interesting - genuinely - thankyou

    It seems to me we need a rethink of our defence spend from first principles, in the light of all recent events, especially Ukraine, Iran etc

    Non-negotiable: independent nuclear deterrent. We could usefully link with maybe Germany or Japan on creating missiles to carry our warheads so that we don't have to rely on the USA

    Special forces

    Military intelligence

    All forms of autonomous drones, they are the future.....

    But beyond that, we need to question everything. Do piloted jets have a future? Likewise tanks with drivers? Aircraft carriers? Maybe admit they were a terrible error? Or adapt them for robot jets

    Robotics is about to render much present military thinking absurd, the way tanks rendered cavalry and trenches redundant, or the way machine guns and barbed wire overtook Napoleonic war
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,354
    edited 8:34PM

    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
    It's amusing, it's the kind of technicalities I thrive on professionally.
    "We're going to make a fortune with this place!"
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,466

    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
    It's amusing, it's the kind of technicalities I thrive on professionally.
    The intent behind standing with US and Israel depends on whether you are the leader of the UK Conservatives, a privileged white male banker in charge of Canada, Herr Mackey from South Park or that Australian twat
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,473

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Were Hegseth and Max Headroom separated at birth?
    Max Headroom's hair has greater reality.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765
    Scoop: White House tells House Republicans to stop talking about mass deportations

    White House Deputy Chief of Staff James Blair privately urged House Republicans on Tuesday to stop emphasizing "mass deportations" and instead focus their messaging on removing violent criminals, according to sources in the closed-door briefing.

    Why it matters: Mass deportations were central to the GOP's 2024 campaign message.

    Nearly half — 49% — of Americans say Trump's mass deportation campaign is too aggressive, including 1 in 5 voters who backed the president in 2024, a Politico poll from January found.
    State of play: Blair delivered the message during a policy listening session with House Republicans at their annual retreat in Doral, Florida.

    He encouraged members to focus on deporting violent offenders rather than defending the broader concept of mass removals.
    The advice signals a recalibration by the White House — and reflects growing concern among some Republicans that Democrats are successfully framing Trump's immigration policy as overly sweeping and indiscriminate.


    https://www.axios.com/2026/03/10/white-house-house-republicans-mass-deportations
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,313

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments
    She has been quoted by multiple sources referring to aggressive action and boots on the ground
    Show these sources with their links

    You are shameless and malign
    I'm not your secretary

    She's said it

    It's been reported

    Her attempt to wriggle out of it today are being laughed at.

    She's not the pussy little perfect missy you are obsessed by.

    She's dug herself a huge hole with her mouth way ahead of what few brain cells she has.

    You can throw sticks and stones.

    Makes no difference to me.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,379

    AND THERE IT IS: Pentagon is cannibalizing THAAD parts from South Korea and Patriot interceptors from the Indo-Pacific

    It only took one week to dramatically lower US defense capabilities in Asia


    https://x.com/esaagar/status/2031348602992312537

    Want Trump supposed to be the President who was strongest on confronting the threat from China?

    This is such a dangerous moment now. The extent to which Trump is weakening the US is dramatic and it invites China to take advantage.
    Exactly. Imagine Winnie the Pooh boasting about appointing the leader of Taiwan.

    Might is always right - without any leading by example to a better world - is just encouraging every bully, and will give the world more bullying.

    Barty Bobbin’s please explain.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,544
    edited 8:42PM
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    Part of the answer is what counts as defence spending. For example, military pensions count as defence spending, and with UK’s final salary scheme, a big chunk of spending goes on supporting veterans now long retired. In the US, veteran’s medical healthcare - an immensely expensive scheme - counts as defence spending; in France the entire cost of the Gendarmarie and in Italy the Carabinieri is counted as defence spending, as these are nominally military outfits despite spending most of their time on traffic checking duties and the like. Then there’s all the admin and desk jobs and property costs and overheads, service housing, military colleges, etc. to pay for. Plus a whole stack of science and R&D that might conceivably be of military use. And our contributions to NATO’s overheads. If towards the end of the year there’s any money left in the budget, I guess they go and buy a few bullets.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,972

    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
    It's amusing, it's the kind of technicalities I thrive on professionally.
    The intent behind standing with US and Israel depends on whether you are the leader of the UK Conservatives, a privileged white male banker in charge of Canada, Herr Mackey from South Park or that Australian twat
    Carney had to row back on his early doors support for the initial attack.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,233

    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2031455260355493949

    Israel’s Prime Minister’s Office says that in the coming days conditions will be created for the Iranian people to “grasp your destiny,” adding that when “the time is right, and that time is fast approaching,” the torch will be passed to them to “seize the moment.”

    What a load of guff ! The regime will just massacre the protesters like last time .
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,461
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Yes, it's an 'Epic Fury' computer game as per the stuff they're putting out. So far missing the bit where the girls school was obliterated with maximum intensity but I suppose it will be in the next release. I wonder what the music will be for that. Very stirring no doubt.
    According to Rest is Politics US it was a "double tap", 2nd missile 20 minutes later which killed desperate parents.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,617
    Absolute mad at the Spurs champions league game.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,466

    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
    It's amusing, it's the kind of technicalities I thrive on professionally.
    The intent behind standing with US and Israel depends on whether you are the leader of the UK Conservatives, a privileged white male banker in charge of Canada, Herr Mackey from South Park or that Australian twat
    Carney had to row back on his early doors support for the initial attack.
    But still supports them 'with regret'
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,519
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments
    She has been quoted by multiple sources referring to aggressive action and boots on the ground
    Show these sources with their links

    You are shameless and malign
    I'm not your secretary

    She's said it

    It's been reported

    Her attempt to wriggle out of it today are being laughed at.

    She's not the pussy little perfect missy you are obsessed by.

    She's dug herself a huge hole with her mouth way ahead of what few brain cells she has.

    You can throw sticks and stones.

    Makes no difference to me.
    Your response says it all

    You make malign accusations with no links

    Your posts wiĺl be judged accordingly
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,354
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    She's tried to backtrack on BBC this afternoon

    Soectacular failure
    I agree with BigG, where is evidence Kemi ever said "I want our Armed Forces to have boots on the ground, we must support the US and Israel in attacking Iran"
    Absolutely none and it is a malicious slur
    According to Badenoch today when she said she stood with the US and Israel and their first strikes against Iran, it didn't mean we should join in.

    To think people here complained about Starmer dancing on a head of a pin!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/badenoch-denies-calling-for-uk-to-join-us-israeli-war-on-iran
    Its not quite denying use of bases by allowing the use of bases inane
    You have a much higher tolerance of inanity than I do. Badenoch is highly disingenuous.
    With apologies to Boris:

    The Tories aren't just empty. They're a void within a vacuum, surrounded by a vast inanition.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,519

    Absolute mad at the Spurs champions league game.

    Hopeless and heading to relegation
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,387
    glw said:

    eek said:

    Brixian59 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I’ll be honest I’m very supportive of the government’s changes to jury trials.

    It makes sense to me. And the criticisms seem very bad faith.
    Who created the backlog
    Who closed the Courts
    Who reduced Prison spaces
    Why is there a log jam

    Which Tory Minister or Reform Minister if they have jumped ship would like to answer

    Crisis of Tory making

    Pragmatic solutions required
    The delays have nothing to do with juries, according to a number of judges and lawyers.
    The delays are the typical story of everything running at capacity so when things go wrong, there is a delay of months until the combination of lawyers and judges are available again.

    See https://bsky.app/profile/lizziedearden.bsky.social/post/3mg32x5thxs2e for an story from last week.
    I propose a trial run.

    Withdraw the right to a jury trial from

    1) Members of The House Of Commons
    2) Any permanent official who had received and accepted an honour.
    3) All Kings Council

    Beyond satire that a former DPP and someone who literally seems to run his entire government based on international law is the one PM in hundreds of years who plans to get rid of ancient right of jury.
    I don't think Starmer really beleives in anything other than following rules. As long as the rules are followed it doesn't actually matter what the rules are, what values they embody, or why the exist. He's not a bad person per se, but I wouldn't trust him at all in a crisis.
    That’s the Process State.

    Worshipping the process not the result. And it is the result that has the moral value.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,920
    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,617
    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien

    Good Lord, Trump seems to have forgotten that in war, your enemy gets a vote. If the Iranians read this, they will understand he is terrified and desperate, and probably speed up the mining of the straits. Worst war leader in US history.

    https://x.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/2031462983981764872
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,259
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2031455260355493949

    Israel’s Prime Minister’s Office says that in the coming days conditions will be created for the Iranian people to “grasp your destiny,” adding that when “the time is right, and that time is fast approaching,” the torch will be passed to them to “seize the moment.”

    Trump and Bibi are learning slowly that your enemy’s enemy is not always your friend.
    Are they? How?
    There is significant disappointment in Washington at the failure of the populace to remove a weakened regime. An issue is that while the murderous dictators in Tehran are reviled, the reasons for their installation, in great part the legacy of Operation Ajax, haven’t been forgotten either.
  • Farage is a shameless liar.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765
    edited 8:52PM
    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    I think I was far too subtle for most PBers.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,461
    nico67 said:

    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2031455260355493949

    Israel’s Prime Minister’s Office says that in the coming days conditions will be created for the Iranian people to “grasp your destiny,” adding that when “the time is right, and that time is fast approaching,” the torch will be passed to them to “seize the moment.”

    What a load of guff ! The regime will just massacre the protesters like last time .
    I'd have thought they're more at risk of being bombed by the US and Israel
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
    interesting - genuinely - thankyou

    It seems to me we need a rethink of our defence spend from first principles, in the light of all recent events, especially Ukraine, Iran etc

    Non-negotiable: independent nuclear deterrent. We could usefully link with maybe Germany or Japan on creating missiles to carry our warheads so that we don't have to rely on the USA

    Special forces

    Military intelligence

    All forms of autonomous drones, they are the future.....

    But beyond that, we need to question everything. Do piloted jets have a future? Likewise tanks with drivers? Aircraft carriers? Maybe admit they were a terrible error? Or adapt them for robot jets

    Robotics is about to render much present military thinking absurd, the way tanks rendered cavalry and trenches redundant, or the way machine guns and barbed wire overtook Napoleonic war
    Presumably the subs are built around the Trident missile, so any new missile would have to have the same critical parameters otherwise you're just pissing more £bns up the wall of the BaE/Babcock sub facility.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,719
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
    interesting - genuinely - thankyou

    It seems to me we need a rethink of our defence spend from first principles, in the light of all recent events, especially Ukraine, Iran etc

    Non-negotiable: independent nuclear deterrent. We could usefully link with maybe Germany or Japan on creating missiles to carry our warheads so that we don't have to rely on the USA

    Special forces

    Military intelligence

    All forms of autonomous drones, they are the future.....

    But beyond that, we need to question everything. Do piloted jets have a future? Likewise tanks with drivers? Aircraft carriers? Maybe admit they were a terrible error? Or adapt them for robot jets

    Robotics is about to render much present military thinking absurd, the way tanks rendered cavalry and trenches redundant, or the way machine guns and barbed wire overtook Napoleonic war
    There's all of that, but then I think there's just a fundamental truth that for an island trading nation, no longer able to rely on leadership from the US, 2.x% of GDP is not enough to defend British interests.

    Somewhere the money needs to be found to increase that to 4%.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,618
    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    I did.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,007
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I’ll be honest I’m very supportive of the government’s changes to jury trials.

    It makes sense to me. And the criticisms seem very bad faith.
    Who created the backlog
    Who closed the Courts
    Who reduced Prison spaces
    Why is there a log jam

    Which Tory Minister or Reform Minister if they have jumped ship would like to answer

    Crisis of Tory making

    Pragmatic solutions required
    Sure, the previous Tory government created loads of problems, a mess that is so big, and so deep and so tall that it feels impossible to fix, there is no way at all.

    But Labour are making things worse.

    So much so you could forgive people for thinking they might need the Tories back to fix it.
    Thats like bringing back the guy who chopped somebody's head off to glue it back on

    Tories in utter denial to the extent of the shit show they left behind after 14 years of under investment

    Refuse to back any measure to fix anything, because the Tory Leader has an issue with agreeing with anyone and has to argue about everything.
    I voted Labour in 2024, and they need to be a lot more persuasive to convince me about this - the Tories having done a bad job is not reason enough in itself to be compelling.
    Likewise, I voted Labour in 2024 and - this will come as a shock to the site - I am genuinely unsure I will repeat that vote in 2029. So they've possibly lost the d'Annunzio-esque libertarian bohosexual kink-friendly voter in Primrose Hill borders
    Not quite Mondeo man or left behind patriots or whatever, is it?
    Brave of a self confessed’ ‘24 Starmer man to berate the smarts of another PBer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,382
    Missing money, shipped chips and a 350,000% profit: key takeaways on AI ‘phantom investments’. A Guardian investigation has put the UK government’s AI plans under the microscope. Here are the key details

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/09/key-takeaways-on-ai-phantom-investments-uk

    After the AI Education Hub "scam", I wouldn't surprised at this stage if the government doesn't buy some magic beans off somebody who promises that if they plant them they will grow AI
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 23,095

    Farage is a shameless liar.

    He is, but in politics he's hardly unique for that... He just happens to be better at it than many others.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,806
    @shipwreck75.bsky.social‬

    The mining is not extensive yet, with a few dozen having been laid in recent days, the sources said. But Iran still retains upward of 80% to 90% of its small boats and mine layers, one of the sources said, so its forces could feasibly lay hundreds of mines in the waterway.-CNN

    I mentioned it earlier but minesweeping is a pain in the ass. You need mine clearing ships, constant ISR, helo cover, CAP, all the while trying to stop small boats that can converge from any number of locations/direction from laying additional mines

    https://bsky.app/profile/sodrock.bsky.social/post/3mgq5qcxdws2z
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,719

    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien

    Good Lord, Trump seems to have forgotten that in war, your enemy gets a vote. If the Iranians read this, they will understand he is terrified and desperate, and probably speed up the mining of the straits. Worst war leader in US history.

    https://x.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/2031462983981764872

    The question arises then: what are the Iranian war aims? What will constitute acceptable terms for an end to the war and reopening the Strait?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,920
    edited 8:59PM

    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    I think I was far too subtle for most PBers.
    Insofar as subtlety can be legendary, your subtlety is legendary
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,618
    So while I've been gone Badenoch and Farage are holding hands singing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance?
    Am I right?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,669
    https://x.com/jamesbenge/status/2031465349229478119

    @jamesbenge

    The most disastrous Tudor campaign on the continent since they lost Calais
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,618
    dixiedean said:

    So while I've been gone Badenoch and Farage are holding hands singing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance?
    Am I right?

    And Sheffield Wednesday are winning.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,592
    dixiedean said:

    So while I've been gone Badenoch and Farage are holding hands singing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance?
    Am I right?

    No, Kemi has said the RAF should bomb Iranian missile sites, it is Farage who has gone wobbly
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,502
    edited 9:06PM
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Brixian59 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I’ll be honest I’m very supportive of the government’s changes to jury trials.

    It makes sense to me. And the criticisms seem very bad faith.
    Who created the backlog
    Who closed the Courts
    Who reduced Prison spaces
    Why is there a log jam

    Which Tory Minister or Reform Minister if they have jumped ship would like to answer

    Crisis of Tory making

    Pragmatic solutions required
    The delays have nothing to do with juries, according to a number of judges and lawyers.
    The delays are the typical story of everything running at capacity so when things go wrong, there is a delay of months until the combination of lawyers and judges are available again.

    See https://bsky.app/profile/lizziedearden.bsky.social/post/3mg32x5thxs2e for an story from last week.
    I propose a trial run.

    Withdraw the right to a jury trial from

    1) Members of The House Of Commons
    2) Any permanent official who had received and accepted an honour.
    3) All Kings Council

    Beyond satire that a former DPP and someone who literally seems to run his entire government based on international law is the one PM in hundreds of years who plans to get rid of ancient right of jury.
    Not get rid, restrict to crimes with a 3 years or more sentence. As recommended (amongst other things) by the Leveson review set up to look at ways of unblocking a criminal justice system which has been brought to crisis point by years of underfunding principally under the tories.
    Yes, there's quite a lot of bad faith going on here, epitomised by the 'end of trial by jury' hysteria. Currently, trial by jury is already restricted to around 2-3% of criminal cases. The proposals will reduce that further, as you say to offences that carry a 3 year+ sentence.

    The right to trial by jury is not being abolished. It's already heavily restricted, and the proposal is to restrict it further. It's arguable whether this is a good idea or not, but what's not arguable is that 'they are abolishing the ancient right of trial by jury' is an untrue, bad faith argument.
    The sheer incometence of this government means anyone sensible opposes their mindless tinkering.

    They never think anything through.
    Mind you the Colston vandals would have been convicted by a judge I expect
    That is the real motivation. To lock up the Palestine Action protestors too, without the inconvenience of having to convince a jury.

    No Jury, no nullification by Jury. Simples.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,033

    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien

    Good Lord, Trump seems to have forgotten that in war, your enemy gets a vote. If the Iranians read this, they will understand he is terrified and desperate, and probably speed up the mining of the straits. Worst war leader in US history.

    https://x.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/2031462983981764872

    The question arises then: what are the Iranian war aims? What will constitute acceptable terms for an end to the war and reopening the Strait?
    Since mines are a bastard to get rid of even in peace time, mining the straits will block them for years, including for Iranian vessels (and not just oil tankers). That doesn’t suggest they are entirely optimistic about ‘winning’ this war. It’s more reminiscent of a ‘salt the earth’ strategy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,592
    edited 9:09PM
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Brixian59 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I’ll be honest I’m very supportive of the government’s changes to jury trials.

    It makes sense to me. And the criticisms seem very bad faith.
    Who created the backlog
    Who closed the Courts
    Who reduced Prison spaces
    Why is there a log jam

    Which Tory Minister or Reform Minister if they have jumped ship would like to answer

    Crisis of Tory making

    Pragmatic solutions required
    The delays have nothing to do with juries, according to a number of judges and lawyers.
    The delays are the typical story of everything running at capacity so when things go wrong, there is a delay of months until the combination of lawyers and judges are available again.

    See https://bsky.app/profile/lizziedearden.bsky.social/post/3mg32x5thxs2e for an story from last week.
    I propose a trial run.

    Withdraw the right to a jury trial from

    1) Members of The House Of Commons
    2) Any permanent official who had received and accepted an honour.
    3) All Kings Council

    Beyond satire that a former DPP and someone who literally seems to run his entire government based on international law is the one PM in hundreds of years who plans to get rid of ancient right of jury.
    Not get rid, restrict to crimes with a 3 years or more sentence. As recommended (amongst other things) by the Leveson review set up to look at ways of unblocking a criminal justice system which has been brought to crisis point by years of underfunding principally under the tories.
    Yes, there's quite a lot of bad faith going on here, epitomised by the 'end of trial by jury' hysteria. Currently, trial by jury is already restricted to around 2-3% of criminal cases. The proposals will reduce that further, as you say to offences that carry a 3 year+ sentence.

    The right to trial by jury is not being abolished. It's already heavily restricted, and the proposal is to restrict it further. It's arguable whether this is a good idea or not, but what's not arguable is that 'they are abolishing the ancient right of trial by jury' is an untrue, bad faith argument.
    The sheer incometence of this government means anyone sensible opposes their mindless tinkering.

    They never think anything through.
    Mind you the Colston vandals would have been convicted by a judge I expect
    That is the real motivation. To lock up the Palestine Action protestors too.
    If they locked up some of the Republic oiks for harassment and Public Order offences would be good too. Extinction Rebellion road blockers and the Just Stop Oil paint throwers in galleries and of course some of the nationalist right asylum hotel protestors could be convicted more easily as well
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,618
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    So while I've been gone Badenoch and Farage are holding hands singing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance?
    Am I right?

    No, Kemi has said the RAF should bomb Iranian missile sites, it is Farage who has gone wobbly
    If "gone wobbly" means "seen sense"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765
    dixiedean said:

    So while I've been gone Badenoch and Farage are holding hands singing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance?
    Am I right?

    Yes, turns out we all misunderstood her comments last week, she's joining the Stop The War Coalition.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,698
    edited 9:07PM
    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    Well I got it :smirk:

    (And why is my smiley so big?)
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,546
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    So while I've been gone Badenoch and Farage are holding hands singing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance?
    Am I right?

    And Sheffield Wednesday are winning.
    If they can hold on, they'll move onto -4 points. At this rate they could end the season with a positive points total.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765
    edited 9:14PM
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    I think I was far too subtle for most PBers.
    Insofar as subtlety can be legendary, your subtlety is legendary
    One of the reasons OGH asked me to edit PB was he was impressed by my directness, nobody is ever left wondering what I say/mean.

    I have always lived by the motto '"In my experience, if you cannot say what you mean, you can never mean what you say."

    #CanYouSpotTheSubtleBabylon5Reference
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,909
    Scott_xP said:

    @shipwreck75.bsky.social‬

    The mining is not extensive yet, with a few dozen having been laid in recent days, the sources said. But Iran still retains upward of 80% to 90% of its small boats and mine layers, one of the sources said, so its forces could feasibly lay hundreds of mines in the waterway.-CNN

    I mentioned it earlier but minesweeping is a pain in the ass. You need mine clearing ships, constant ISR, helo cover, CAP, all the while trying to stop small boats that can converge from any number of locations/direction from laying additional mines

    https://bsky.app/profile/sodrock.bsky.social/post/3mgq5qcxdws2z

    I think Rupert Lowe has a solution to the dual problem of mines and small boats... Not sure what title he'll give it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765
    CatMan said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    Well I got it :smirk:

    (And why is my smiley so big?)
    Vanilla 'upgrade'.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,698

    CatMan said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    Well I got it :smirk:

    (And why is my smiley so big?)
    Vanilla 'upgrade'.
    But I'm sure I've seen some people with the regular sized ones?!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,502

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
    We often hear that the British forces "punch motmre than their weight" which is a euphemism for not having the neccesary strength in depth.
  • Starmer seems to have managed the jury trials rebellion much more smoothly than previous attempts.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765
    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    Well I got it :smirk:

    (And why is my smiley so big?)
    Vanilla 'upgrade'.
    But I'm sure I've seen some people with the regular sized ones?!
    I think you big the smileys if you post via the Vanilla forums and the smaller ones if you post through the main site.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,805

    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2031455260355493949

    Israel’s Prime Minister’s Office says that in the coming days conditions will be created for the Iranian people to “grasp your destiny,” adding that when “the time is right, and that time is fast approaching,” the torch will be passed to them to “seize the moment.”

    Rolling the pitch
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,920

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    I think I was far too subtle for most PBers.
    Insofar as subtlety can be legendary, your subtlety is legendary
    One of the reasons OGH asked me to edit PB was he was impressed by my directness, nobody is ever left wondering what I say/mean.

    I have always lived by the motto '"In my experience, if you cannot say what you mean, you can never mean what you say."

    #CanYouSpotTheSubtleBabylon5Reference
    https://a1bert.kapsi.fi/Quotes/NoRobots/B5/072.html
  • glwglw Posts: 10,815

    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien

    Good Lord, Trump seems to have forgotten that in war, your enemy gets a vote. If the Iranians read this, they will understand he is terrified and desperate, and probably speed up the mining of the straits. Worst war leader in US history.

    https://x.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/2031462983981764872

    The question arises then: what are the Iranian war aims? What will constitute acceptable terms for an end to the war and reopening the Strait?
    I would guess that Iran will accept America's unconditional surrender.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,033

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Am I the only person who got the "epistimological..." Yes Minister reference in the article? Or did everybody get it and you were too shy to admit it?

    I think I was far too subtle for most PBers.
    Insofar as subtlety can be legendary, your subtlety is legendary
    One of the reasons OGH asked me to edit PB was he was impressed by my directness, nobody is ever left wondering what I say/mean.

    I have always lived by the motto '"In my experience, if you cannot say what you mean, you can never mean what you say."

    #CanYouSpotTheSubtleBabylon5Reference
    No.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,805
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments
    She has been quoted by multiple sources referring to aggressive action and boots on the ground
    Do provide a link to a credible source then
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,012
    As we're on the subject of how Britain spends the defence budget perhaps all the prancing around in fancy dress for the tourists and royals should be stopped until the military is capable of fulfilling its defence duties.

    I'm not sure how much money and man hours would be saved but it would be a nice 'all in it together' symbolic gesture.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,618
    5-1.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,617
    Robert Peston
    @Peston

    Government sources are taking seriously the possibility that Iran has placed mines in the Straits of Hormuz. They are not saying it has happened. But they pointed me to what they call open source intelligence - which turns out to be a euphemism for the American president (see attached).

    If there is confirmation of mines in the Straits, the oil price would soar again. Because that waterway - which is a passage for 25% of all seaborne oil - would be shut for a prolonged period. And the cost to the prosperity of the world would be very significant.

    For what it’s worth, the government is putting in place plans to deal with a significant economic shock, if the worst were to materialise.

    https://x.com/Peston/status/2031468208830472548
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,972

    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2031455260355493949

    Israel’s Prime Minister’s Office says that in the coming days conditions will be created for the Iranian people to “grasp your destiny,” adding that when “the time is right, and that time is fast approaching,” the torch will be passed to them to “seize the moment.”

    Rolling the pitch
    But, for what exactly?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,617
    dixiedean said:

    5-1.

    Spurs could literally be decimated at this rate.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,012

    As we're on the subject of how Britain spends the defence budget perhaps all the prancing around in fancy dress for the tourists and royals should be stopped until the military is capable of fulfilling its defence duties.

    I'm not sure how much money and man hours would be saved but it would be a nice 'all in it together' symbolic gesture.

    This is the first fancy dress distraction which should be stopped:

    In June each year Trooping the Colour, also known as 'The King's Birthday Parade', takes place on Horse Guards Parade in London.

    With His Majesty the King taking the salute Trooping the Colour is the highlight of the ceremonial calendar with over 1400 officers and men, two hundred horses and the Massed Bands of the Household Division on parade.

    Prior to the King's Birthday Parade two Trooping the Colour Reviews take place, the first is 'The Major General's Review' and then 'The Colonel's Review'.


    https://changing-guard.com/ceremonial/trooping-the-colour.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,617

    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien

    Good Lord, Trump seems to have forgotten that in war, your enemy gets a vote. If the Iranians read this, they will understand he is terrified and desperate, and probably speed up the mining of the straits. Worst war leader in US history.

    https://x.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/2031462983981764872

    The question arises then: what are the Iranian war aims? What will constitute acceptable terms for an end to the war and reopening the Strait?
    The survival of the regime is their war aim.

    Out last what Trump can cope with as far as decimating the world economy goes.

    That and keep hold of the 60% processed uranium they apparently have.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,972
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    I’m hoping this helps reinforce the very real risks of supporting untested parties (in the same way Zack is now telling us he’s going to be nice to Mr Putin and that will solve everything).

    Sadly, Kemi has badly miscalculated this one. It would have been a proper sensible dividing line and she’s missed that opportunity, badly.
    Well I don't see why Kemi can't say she was against the war all along if Farage can get away with it.
    25% of UK voters support strikes on Iran with Yougov, that is higher than the current Tory poll rating, so why shouldn't she try and get most of them voting Tory and fill the gap left by a less hawkish Farage?
    Some percentage of those will be diehard Reform, or even some other party. And if a larger pool are against, isn't that a better place to seek to swim?
    Setting out your stall based on YouGov polling on Iran is not how a serious politician acts.
    Sometimes you have to take a hit when yiu are not in tune with majority opinion else be a pathetic weather vane.
    You also need to follow your own party's voters above all, most Reform voters back the strikes, so Farage is now more out of touch with his own voters than Starmer, Kemi, Polanski and Davey are with theirs.

    Perhaps the Don should invite Kemi to Mar a Lago given he was absent when Farage tried to pay homage this week?
    I thought Tiny Tom was Trump's new bezzie.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,701

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
    interesting - genuinely - thankyou

    It seems to me we need a rethink of our defence spend from first principles, in the light of all recent events, especially Ukraine, Iran etc

    Non-negotiable: independent nuclear deterrent. We could usefully link with maybe Germany or Japan on creating missiles to carry our warheads so that we don't have to rely on the USA

    Special forces

    Military intelligence

    All forms of autonomous drones, they are the future.....

    But beyond that, we need to question everything. Do piloted jets have a future? Likewise tanks with drivers? Aircraft carriers? Maybe admit they were a terrible error? Or adapt them for robot jets

    Robotics is about to render much present military thinking absurd, the way tanks rendered cavalry and trenches redundant, or the way machine guns and barbed wire overtook Napoleonic war
    There's all of that, but then I think there's just a fundamental truth that for an island trading nation, no longer able to rely on leadership from the US, 2.x% of GDP is not enough to defend British interests.

    Somewhere the money needs to be found to increase that to 4%.
    We need to spend much more on Defence.

    There is no getting around it.

    And that means more spending cuts or tax rises.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,972
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Yes, it's an 'Epic Fury' computer game as per the stuff they're putting out. So far missing the bit where the girls school was obliterated with maximum intensity but I suppose it will be in the next release. I wonder what the music will be for that. Very stirring no doubt.
    Earlier today, writers in both the Guardian and- wait for it- the Telegraph referred to the current adventure as "Operation Epic Failure".
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,638

    As we're on the subject of how Britain spends the defence budget perhaps all the prancing around in fancy dress for the tourists and royals should be stopped until the military is capable of fulfilling its defence duties.

    I'm not sure how much money and man hours would be saved but it would be a nice 'all in it together' symbolic gesture.

    We should double the defence budget, but spend the whole lot on getting off fossil fuels as quickly as possible. That's what actual security looks like.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,618
    This is turning into a complete clusterf--k isn't it?

    Bombing and the killing of most of the leadership hasn't caused capitulation.
    US and Israel don't seem to be on the same page re war aims.
    Straits closed meaning economic chaos.
    No rally around the flag in US. Quite the opposite.
    A senile President. A psychopath in the State Department.
    Israeli focus shifting to Lebanon.
    Nuclear materials still at large under Regime control.

    Logical next step is invasion. Isn't it? Or declare a victory which no-one is willing to buy.

    Still. Epstein, eh?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,701
    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    We are Belgium with nukes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Yes, it's an 'Epic Fury' computer game as per the stuff they're putting out. So far missing the bit where the girls school was obliterated with maximum intensity but I suppose it will be in the next release. I wonder what the music will be for that. Very stirring no doubt.
    Earlier today, writers in both the Guardian and- wait for it- the Telegraph referred to the current adventure as "Operation Epic Failure".
    Have you got a link to the Telegraph one, I'd like to add it for the morning thread, please.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,701
    CatMan said:

    Bloody hell

    "US weighs sending forces into Iran to secure nuclear stockpile, reports say"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/10/us-weighs-sending-forces-into-iran-to-secure-nuclear-stockpile-reports-say

    Good.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,805

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    Have you had dinner yet? You’re drinking on an empty stomach.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage has seen the polling.

    Nigel Farage accused of U-turning on Middle East crisis after he said Britain should not get involved in Donald Trump’s war with Iran.

    He previously said the “gloves need to come off” when dealing with Iran and that “we should do all we can to support the operation.”

    Story from @BenQuinn75


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/10/nigel-farage-u-turn-uk-iran-war

    He's not stupid.

    What do the Tory Turncoats think?
    Over half of current Reform voters back the US strikes on Iran according to Yougov, so while Farage and Jenrick go wobbly on Iran, Kemi should arguably step up her bomb Tehran and the regime to bits line and hope to squeeze back to the Tories some rightwingers lost to Reform
    No.
    Kemi can show she is raw steak to Farage and Jenrick's soggy wet lettuces
    She's tried backtracking this afternoon

    BBC

    Failed spectacularly
    You owe Kemi an apology over yet more fake made up comments
    She has been quoted by multiple sources referring to aggressive action and boots on the ground
    Show these sources with their links

    You are shameless and malign
    I'm not your secretary

    She's said it

    It's been reported

    Her attempt to wriggle out of it today are being laughed at.

    She's not the pussy little perfect missy you are obsessed by.

    She's dug herself a huge hole with her mouth way ahead of what few brain cells she has.

    You can throw sticks and stones.

    Makes no difference to me.
    Your response says it all

    You make malign accusations with no links

    Your posts wiĺl be judged accordingly
    Mene mene tekel upharsin
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,592

    As we're on the subject of how Britain spends the defence budget perhaps all the prancing around in fancy dress for the tourists and royals should be stopped until the military is capable of fulfilling its defence duties.

    I'm not sure how much money and man hours would be saved but it would be a nice 'all in it together' symbolic gesture.

    Given even Kemi isn't proposing British boots on the ground in Iran or Ukraine that isn't really the problem, building our navy and bombers and fighter jets and cyber security is
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,972

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Yes, it's an 'Epic Fury' computer game as per the stuff they're putting out. So far missing the bit where the girls school was obliterated with maximum intensity but I suppose it will be in the next release. I wonder what the music will be for that. Very stirring no doubt.
    Earlier today, writers in both the Guardian and- wait for it- the Telegraph referred to the current adventure as "Operation Epic Failure".
    Have you got a link to the Telegraph one, I'd like to add it for the morning thread, please.
    It was referred to by James O'Brexit on LBC this morning, but I'll have a look.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,617
    Professor Jeffrey Sachs tells Piers Morgan tonight that "We’re heading to World War III..."


    Full clip: https://x.com/PiersUncensored/status/2031448502879003074

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,765

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Channel 4 have found an Iranian spokesperson who is a University professor. A wise old man who sits in a chair and opines. He reminds me of my late Grandfather! He's even got his accent! A very impressive man. Quite a contrast to the juveniles who are speaking for the US at the moment. I think he could become a bit of a cult figure. He's like the old man in the old man and the sea.

    I think it was the beard. If Pete Hegseth had a beard he'd look older and wiser too - until he opened his mouth. But, yes, Hegseth with a beard and not saying anything, that would be a huge improvement on the US war comms front.
    Hegseth comes across as very excited by the carnage. Like a kindergarten kid receiving his first GI Joe doll.
    Yes, it's an 'Epic Fury' computer game as per the stuff they're putting out. So far missing the bit where the girls school was obliterated with maximum intensity but I suppose it will be in the next release. I wonder what the music will be for that. Very stirring no doubt.
    Earlier today, writers in both the Guardian and- wait for it- the Telegraph referred to the current adventure as "Operation Epic Failure".
    Have you got a link to the Telegraph one, I'd like to add it for the morning thread, please.
    It was referred to by James O'Brexit on LBC this morning, but I'll have a look.
    It's fine, I'll try and find it myself.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,701
    Leon said:

    Do the powers that be genuinely not see where this ends?


    "White males will have ‘fewer board seats’ in future, says UK diversity chair"

    Financial Times

    https://x.com/FT/status/2031160714484674567?s=20

    Let me tell them. The end result of all this is the creation of an aggressive "white" identity in the UK. If you are white, you will vote for the "White People's Party", so you are not crushed, nor your kids, by official "anti-white-racism". Thus Britain will become a new South Africa

    I am genuinely confused as to why so many erstwhile intelligent people fail to see that playing identity politics drives, err, identity politics.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,012

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
    interesting - genuinely - thankyou

    It seems to me we need a rethink of our defence spend from first principles, in the light of all recent events, especially Ukraine, Iran etc

    Non-negotiable: independent nuclear deterrent. We could usefully link with maybe Germany or Japan on creating missiles to carry our warheads so that we don't have to rely on the USA

    Special forces

    Military intelligence

    All forms of autonomous drones, they are the future.....

    But beyond that, we need to question everything. Do piloted jets have a future? Likewise tanks with drivers? Aircraft carriers? Maybe admit they were a terrible error? Or adapt them for robot jets

    Robotics is about to render much present military thinking absurd, the way tanks rendered cavalry and trenches redundant, or the way machine guns and barbed wire overtook Napoleonic war
    There's all of that, but then I think there's just a fundamental truth that for an island trading nation, no longer able to rely on leadership from the US, 2.x% of GDP is not enough to defend British interests.

    Somewhere the money needs to be found to increase that to 4%.
    We need to spend much more on Defence.

    There is no getting around it.

    And that means more spending cuts or tax rises.
    There needs to be spending cuts AND tax rises.

    Everyone needs to lose out with no exceptions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,592

    Professor Jeffrey Sachs tells Piers Morgan tonight that "We’re heading to World War III..."


    Full clip: https://x.com/PiersUncensored/status/2031448502879003074

    Now the biggest cliche in foreign policy analysis
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,618

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    So today the Royal Navy managed, after 6 days of truly extraordinary work, to put a vessel to sea. The reality is that almost all of the proposed increase in public spending on defence being planned by the government will achieve very little more than giving us the defence forces that we allegedly had, at least on paper, plus, if we are lucky, enough ammunition to fight a war of more than 2 weeks duration.

    The extent to which our defence forces have been allowed to fall into desuetude whilst almost unlimited sums are spent on the likes of Ajax is a national disgrace, not just for this government (although they are not excused) but for all of our governments of the last 20 odd years since Gulf War 2 was finished. So much money wasted on a system with more admirals than ships, more generals than tanks and more Air Commanders than deployable aircraft.

    Sadly not the case. The planned increase in spend on the nuclear deterrent (necessary to renew it) means that spending on the conventional forces will fall. The state of Britain's conventional forces can be expected to deteriorate further, despite the best efforts of the poor sods at the sharp end.

    Britain has reached the stage where ragged holes have now suddenly appeared in what was a threadbare garment and Labour aren't even proposing to start the repair job.
    But why?

    Britain still spends - relatively and globally - a fuck of a lot of money on defence. We are I think the fifth or biggest military spender in the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

    Where is it going? How can they spunk all this money up the wall, to the extent we can only get one ship out to defend sovereign bases, after a fortnight's delay, when some guy nips down to Smiths for half a ton of blu-tak?

    It don't make sense
    It's because Britain is trying to do more than it is willing to spend.

    So there are two aircraft carriers which soaks up huge amounts of money and manpower. There are foreign bases all over the place, which ties up capability and manpower in defending them. There is the commitment to NATO's enhanced forward presence, which means deploying most of Britain's operational army capability to Estonia. There is the commitment to JEF, which uses up more capability.

    And then there's procurement, where everything has to be designed bespoke for Britain at enormous cost and sometimes questionable efficacy.
    interesting - genuinely - thankyou

    It seems to me we need a rethink of our defence spend from first principles, in the light of all recent events, especially Ukraine, Iran etc

    Non-negotiable: independent nuclear deterrent. We could usefully link with maybe Germany or Japan on creating missiles to carry our warheads so that we don't have to rely on the USA

    Special forces

    Military intelligence

    All forms of autonomous drones, they are the future.....

    But beyond that, we need to question everything. Do piloted jets have a future? Likewise tanks with drivers? Aircraft carriers? Maybe admit they were a terrible error? Or adapt them for robot jets

    Robotics is about to render much present military thinking absurd, the way tanks rendered cavalry and trenches redundant, or the way machine guns and barbed wire overtook Napoleonic war
    There's all of that, but then I think there's just a fundamental truth that for an island trading nation, no longer able to rely on leadership from the US, 2.x% of GDP is not enough to defend British interests.

    Somewhere the money needs to be found to increase that to 4%.
    We need to spend much more on Defence.

    There is no getting around it.

    And that means more spending cuts or tax rises.
    There needs to be spending cuts AND tax rises.

    Everyone needs to lose out with no exceptions.
    Good luck with that on the front of a manifesto.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,805

    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien

    Good Lord, Trump seems to have forgotten that in war, your enemy gets a vote. If the Iranians read this, they will understand he is terrified and desperate, and probably speed up the mining of the straits. Worst war leader in US history.

    https://x.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/2031462983981764872

    The question arises then: what are the Iranian war aims? What will constitute acceptable terms for an end to the war and reopening the Strait?
    Regime change?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,012
    Eabhal said:

    As we're on the subject of how Britain spends the defence budget perhaps all the prancing around in fancy dress for the tourists and royals should be stopped until the military is capable of fulfilling its defence duties.

    I'm not sure how much money and man hours would be saved but it would be a nice 'all in it together' symbolic gesture.

    We should double the defence budget, but spend the whole lot on getting off fossil fuels as quickly as possible. That's what actual security looks like.
    We should have a separate 'security' budget for general economic and energy requirements.
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