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Why the Tory party is becoming more like the Lib Dems – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,992
edited 8:04AM in General
Why the Tory party is becoming more like the Lib Dems – politicalbetting.com

?Speculation about Tory reshuffle means its worth looking at whether there has been any Badenoch bounce? The data I think unambiguously shows there has, the fact it is not translating into change in party ratings is arguably a worse sign for Tories than if there hadn't been one

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Comments

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,254
    Primus inter pares. Like Mojtaba Khamenei
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,494
    More bullshit from the publicity hungry Luke Tryl.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,839
    Seeing lots of stories like this ahead of the Renters Rights Act becoming law in May. Law of unintended consequences and all that.

    Also it appears quite a few private landlords moving to short term lets.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jw3qxnd2o
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,905
    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,991
    We are all Tel Aviv.
    Literally, according to Grok.

    Grok is claiming a video from the central fire in Glasgow, Scotland is actually Tel Aviv.

    Stop putting any faith into this hallucinatory software.

    https://x.com/juliamacfarlane/status/2030805594454503866?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,458
    Good morning

    I think Kemi and the party will be pleased with those ratings overall especially with 3 years to go

    I do not think any of us can foretell the next GE, but more immediately I think Starmer has cemented his position, as bad as he is, as simply anyone else would be worse

    Indeed Starmer and Kemi have that in common
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,458

    We are all Tel Aviv.
    Literally, according to Grok.

    Grok is claiming a video from the central fire in Glasgow, Scotland is actually Tel Aviv.

    Stop putting any faith into this hallucinatory software.

    https://x.com/juliamacfarlane/status/2030805594454503866?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That fire looks like serious rail travel disruption and for some time
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,625
    Taz said:

    Seeing lots of stories like this ahead of the Renters Rights Act becoming law in May. Law of unintended consequences and all that.

    Also it appears quite a few private landlords moving to short term lets.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jw3qxnd2o

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind

    Having helped quite a few with s21's, the demise will help quite a few from the churn of having to move from place to place. Landlords like any business, need to adjust to market changes in the same way as all UK industry has. Their constant moaning over the years that they are 'special' borders on Trump levels of delusion.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,725
    ohnotnow said:

    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    Thoughts and prayers for the insurers, particularly the business interruption insurers.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,086
    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    I am in favour of stocking, but not using, coal in dual fuel gas powered electricity station

    We should continue to extract from the North Sea although it's marginal given the exhaustion of supply. In principle the difference is the thin red line on this chart, although it may be more than that

    https://bsky.app/profile/drsimevans.carbonbrief.org/post/3kdj4ec4lai2h
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,214
    The poll is old news and conducted before the war in Iran .

    Hitching your wagon to Trump and telling the public UK foreign policy will now be decided by Washington isn’t a good look .
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,725
    Roger said:

    More bullshit from the publicity hungry Luke Tryl.

    Why is it bullshit?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,458
    Roger said:

    More bullshit from the publicity hungry Luke Tryl.

    Just throwing out comments because you do not like them doesn't make them untrue
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550
    edited 8:25AM
    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. The LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets in LD held and target seats eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in a similar way in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,965
    Taz said:

    Seeing lots of stories like this ahead of the Renters Rights Act becoming law in May. Law of unintended consequences and all that.

    Also it appears quite a few private landlords moving to short term lets.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jw3qxnd2o

    Taz, thing is a jellyfish could have worked out what these things would do, these clowns seem to have no brains whatsoever and they keep coming up with stupid new rules all over the place.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,998
    nico67 said:

    The poll is old news and conducted before the war in Iran .

    Hitching your wagon to Trump and telling the public UK foreign policy will now be decided by Washington isn’t a good look .

    It's what British governments have always done. Since Suez, anyway. Not Trump, but Uncle Sam.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,965
    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    I am in favour of stocking, but not using, coal in dual fuel gas powered electricity station

    We should continue to extract from the North Sea although it's marginal given the exhaustion of supply. In principle the difference is the thin red line on this chart, although it may be more than that

    https://bsky.app/profile/drsimevans.carbonbrief.org/post/3kdj4ec4lai2h
    Why would we buy and stock it if never going to use it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,494
    edited 8:24AM
    Have A Long Terrm Vision For Britain

    Farage-40
    Badenoch-41
    Starmer-37

    Do you think he makes up these figures in the bath?

    Can you imagine anyone saying any of those three have a long term vision for Britain?

    Or answering yes to the question?

    I can't
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,998

    ohnotnow said:

    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    Thoughts and prayers for the insurers, particularly the business interruption insurers.
    Why? They should have the risk laid off.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,294
    While the Greens have narrowly held on in the 2026 Baden-Württemberg state election, they did lose seats. The big stories are the big gains by the CDU and AfD and big losses by the SPD and FDP.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,685
    Reform may have to visibly fail before the Conservatives meaningfully come back.

    And even then, it's probably through a merger.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,458
    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, so the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Your first paragraph is your usual nonsense and predictably all about Cleverly which begs the question why are you so obsesssd by him ?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,685
    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Cleverly is a nice guy who doesn't offend anyone, but that's all he is.

    I think the Conservatives should stick with Kemi.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,725

    ohnotnow said:

    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    Thoughts and prayers for the insurers, particularly the business interruption insurers.
    Why? They should have the risk laid off.
    It's more the paperwork that's the killer.

    Wasn't a great day in Glasgow overrall yesterday.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4w22znlyvo
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,440

    We are all Tel Aviv.
    Literally, according to Grok.

    Grok is claiming a video from the central fire in Glasgow, Scotland is actually Tel Aviv.

    Stop putting any faith into this hallucinatory software.

    https://x.com/juliamacfarlane/status/2030805594454503866?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Interesting it chose Tel Aviv not Tehran or Beirut. It must take a lot more effort to write a propaganda aggregating tool than one with no deliberate bias.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,086
    You can't argue with the numbers. People see something in Badenoch that completely bypasses me. But then many happily support Farage who is quite obviously a charlatan (which Badenoch to be clear isn't). Unserious politics is the order of the day I suppose. The awful example of Trump doesn't put them off.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,086
    DougSeal said:

    Primus inter pares. Like Mojtaba Khamenei

    Primus post parente in that case I think
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Cleverly is a nice guy who doesn't offend anyone, but that's all he is.

    I think the Conservatives should stick with Kemi.
    For now, if the Conservatives are third or worse on NEV after the May local and devolved elections though Kemi is gone. Tory MPs would likely VONC and replace her with former Home and Foreign Secretary Cleverly by coronation. Cleverly would the Michael Howard to her IDS, the Sunak to her Truss
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,248
    FF43 said:

    You can't argue with the numbers. People see something in Badenoch that completely bypasses me. But then many happily support Farage who is quite obviously a charlatan (which Badenoch to be clear isn't). Unserious politics is the order of the day I suppose. The awful example of Trump doesn't put them off.

    Her aggressive style has quickly waned

    OK when attacking individuals and panto like but in a global crisis she has shown herself as totally unfit for her position.

    Focus groups are not always reflective of the wider public.

    Right now she is not only irrelevant but as she aligns more and more to Trump and let's Pritti direct and control foreign policy then her ratings will quickly go south again.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,685
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Cleverly is a nice guy who doesn't offend anyone, but that's all he is.

    I think the Conservatives should stick with Kemi.
    For now, if the Conservatives are third or worse on NEV after the May local and devolved elections though Kemi is gone. Tory MPs would likely VONC and replace her with former Home and Foreign Secretary Cleverly by coronation. Cleverly would the Michael Howard to her IDS, the Sunak to her Truss
    That's just an assertion, though.

    There's no evidence for it, and nor is that path certain to follow.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550
    edited 8:39AM

    Reform may have to visibly fail before the Conservatives meaningfully come back.

    And even then, it's probably through a merger.

    In which case the Conservatives would not exist anyway, they would have been taken over and incorporated into Reform with a few of the remaining One Nation Tories going LD. Much as today’s Conservative Party of Canada was formed in 2003 by a takeover by the Canadian Reform party, by then called the Canadian Alliance, of the Progressive Conservatives with a few Progressive Conservatives going Liberal. If Reform won more seats than the Conservatives that scenario would likely be repeated here, only PR could keep the Conservatives as a separate party not FPTP.

    If however the Conservatives still win more seats than Reform at the next general election Farage will probably resign and it is the Conservatives who can retake over most of Reform again except the hardest right anti immigration element of Reform who would likely merge into Restore
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,086
    edited 8:35AM
    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    I am in favour of stocking, but not using, coal in dual fuel gas powered electricity station

    We should continue to extract from the North Sea although it's marginal given the exhaustion of supply. In principle the difference is the thin red line on this chart, although it may be more than that

    https://bsky.app/profile/drsimevans.carbonbrief.org/post/3kdj4ec4lai2h
    Why would we buy and stock it if never going to use it.
    Strategic reserve to be used only in times of stress. I don't want coal as a regular fuel.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,839
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Seeing lots of stories like this ahead of the Renters Rights Act becoming law in May. Law of unintended consequences and all that.

    Also it appears quite a few private landlords moving to short term lets.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jw3qxnd2o

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind

    Having helped quite a few with s21's, the demise will help quite a few from the churn of having to move from place to place. Landlords like any business, need to adjust to market changes in the same way as all UK industry has. Their constant moaning over the years that they are 'special' borders on Trump levels of delusion.

    Yes, the story highlights someone whining at the consequences of renters lobbyists actions. Oh dear.

    Indeed they will adapt. I know a couple of landlords who booted out good tenants and have gone short term let due to the law change.

    We will also see a growth in businesses managing rentals, build to rent will become more prevalent.

    They have to protect themselves. Nothing wrong with S21. Tenants rent they do not own. This govt would be better served sorting out lease charges

    There’s votes in bashing landlords, as there is bankers and other groups that offer a service. But I’ve never seen them compared to the Trumpdozer before.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,625
    FF43 said:

    You can't argue with the numbers. People see something in Badenoch that completely bypasses me. But then many happily support Farage who is quite obviously a charlatan (which Badenoch to be clear isn't). Unserious politics is the order of the day I suppose. The awful example of Trump doesn't put them off.

    Suppose it's the bounce from opposing a seriously unpopular PM, but it doesn't mean she's any good. Will be interesting to see who she brings in (and dumps) in any reshuffle.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,815

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Cleverly is a nice guy who doesn't offend anyone, but that's all he is.

    I think the Conservatives should stick with Kemi.
    Depends what the Conservatives are hoping to achieve in 2029.

    If it's to lead the next government, fuhgeddit. She's not up to it and isn't learning. Her studs-up attacks on Starmer in the last week show that. She will go loud on an issue without thinking through her opponent's move, and that always ends in disaster.

    If it's to keep some sort of Conservative show on the road until Farage collapses due to a combination of anger, fags, boredom and old age, why not? Someone has to do it and her determination to express loud opinions on everything is as good an idea as any.

    But yes, survival depends on bar charts. And a good answer to the "would you back a Reform minority?" question? And that question has dogged the Liberals/Alliance/Lib Dems forever.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,086
    Battlebus said:

    FF43 said:

    You can't argue with the numbers. People see something in Badenoch that completely bypasses me. But then many happily support Farage who is quite obviously a charlatan (which Badenoch to be clear isn't). Unserious politics is the order of the day I suppose. The awful example of Trump doesn't put them off.

    Suppose it's the bounce from opposing a seriously unpopular PM, but it doesn't mean she's any good. Will be interesting to see who she brings in (and dumps) in any reshuffle.
    Badenoch has energy against an enervated government. That does distinguish her.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550

    While the Greens have narrowly held on in the 2026 Baden-Württemberg state election, they did lose seats. The big stories are the big gains by the CDU and AfD and big losses by the SPD and FDP.

    Encouraging for Merz despite the AfD also gaining
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,996
    edited 8:43AM
    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Cleverly is a nice guy who doesn't offend anyone, but that's all he is.

    I think the Conservatives should stick with Kemi.
    For now, if the Conservatives are third or worse on NEV after the May local and devolved elections though Kemi is gone. Tory MPs would likely VONC and replace her with former Home and Foreign Secretary Cleverly by coronation. Cleverly would the Michael Howard to her IDS, the Sunak to her Truss
    That's just an assertion, though.

    There's no evidence for it, and nor is that path certain to follow.
    There is, if the Tories are third or worse in May most Tory MPs would face losing their seats and be in full on panic mode. A heavyweight ex holder of a great office of state like Cleverly who could get more anti Reform tactical votes from Labour and the LDs in Tory held seats would then be their best bet
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,475
    That’s quite the fire in Glasgow, hope everyone’s okay there.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,887
    DavidL said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    Glasgow student:

    ""It was horrible, I was on the bus with my friend at the front and suddenly we turned a corner and the whole sky was orange," she said.

    Clearly a Celtic supporter.
    Cheap vapes are a fire hazard.

    They should be stored in metal containers with no more than a few in each box.

    It won't affect the "business model"...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,911
    Roger said:

    More bullshit from the publicity hungry Luke Tryl.

    Old-school pollsters do political polling as a loss-leader: it brings clients into their main business of consumer research/whatevs. You can't blame them for constantly generating interesting output, as it's their actual job to do so.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,911
    HYUFD said:

    Reform may have to visibly fail before the Conservatives meaningfully come back.

    And even then, it's probably through a merger.

    In which case the Conservatives would not exist anyway, they would have been taken over and incorporated into Reform with a few of the remaining One Nation Tories going LD. Much as today’s Conservative Party of Canada was formed in 2003 by a takeover by the Canadian Reform party, by then called the Canadian Alliance, of the Progressive Conservatives with a few Progressive Conservatives going Liberal. If Reform won more seats than the Conservatives that scenario would likely be repeated here, only PR could keep the Conservatives as a separate party not FPTP.

    If however the Conservatives still win more seats than Reform at the next general election Farage will probably resign and it is the Conservatives who can retake over most of Reform again except the hardest right anti immigration element of Reform who would likely merge into Restore
    If we believe we know that this will end with a Reform/Conservative merger, then why don't you do it now?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,768
    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,214
    edited 8:56AM
    Tomorrow in the US there’s a special election in Georgia to replace MTG .

    In 2024 MTG beat the Dem Harris by 64 to 35 .

    The election is a free for all with the top 2 going through to a run off if no one gets above 50% .

    There are 3 Dem candidates and 12 from the GOP .

    It’s very likely it will go to a run off but the interest is the vote margins . It would be a huge shock if the Dems win a run off given the seat is classed as Ruby Red .

    But if there’s a time for a huge shock it might be now with the run off on 7th April . What happens with the Iran War , especially gas prices in the USA which have already climbed 50 cents a gallon over the last week .
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,052
    About 500,000 voters die every year - perhaps 80% of them are Conservative and they tend to actually vote.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,803
    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,475
    viewcode said:

    Roger said:

    More bullshit from the publicity hungry Luke Tryl.

    Old-school pollsters do political polling as a loss-leader: it brings clients into their main business of consumer research/whatevs. You can't blame them for constantly generating interesting output, as it's their actual job to do so.
    Indeed, political polls are mostly marketing for pollsters and newspapers. No-one’s making any money from them.

    But if you need some market research done for your business, the first names off the top of your head are likely to be the companies who do political polls.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,768
    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Two reasons why people won't let go. Firstly, stating a conspiracy theory is easier than refuting it and requires next to no effort. Secondly, unlike many conspiracy theories (flat earth, no moon landings etc) it is not impossible to think it might be true. And we don't have reasons for thinking this USA regime is deeply wedded to the idea of transparent truthfulness.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550
    edited 8:59AM
    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    A Cleverly led Tories ruling out a deal with Reform could though get Labour and LD tactical votes in Tory held seats in a way a Kemi led Tories could not
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,101
    FPT
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,101

    DavidL said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    Glasgow student:

    ""It was horrible, I was on the bus with my friend at the front and suddenly we turned a corner and the whole sky was orange," she said.

    Clearly a Celtic supporter.
    Cheap vapes are a fire hazard.

    They should be stored in metal containers with no more than a few in each box.

    It won't affect the "business model"...
    I can see railway stations deciding to ban vape shops on their premises after this.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445
    Icarus said:

    About 500,000 voters die every year - perhaps 80% of them are Conservative and they tend to actually vote.

    But the hopper gets filled up with new pensioners.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,803
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    A Cleverly led Tories ruling out a deal with Reform could though get Labour and LD tactical votes in Tory held seats in a way a Kemi led Tories could not
    And what happens if Reform need 10 seats and offer a couple of cabinet positions to Cleverly.

    As a never Reform voter it’s not worth the risk
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,344

    FPT

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
    Sadly, creating storage caverns with large nuclear weapons doesn't work either.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,101
    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550
    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,101

    FPT

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
    Sadly, creating storage caverns with large nuclear weapons doesn't work either.
    As the Russians know only too well.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550
    Icarus said:

    About 500,000 voters die every year - perhaps 80% of them are Conservative and they tend to actually vote.

    Reform now lead with pensioners though Kemi is doing a little better with under 35s
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,458

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Cleverly is a nice guy who doesn't offend anyone, but that's all he is.

    I think the Conservatives should stick with Kemi.
    For now, if the Conservatives are third or worse on NEV after the May local and devolved elections though Kemi is gone. Tory MPs would likely VONC and replace her with former Home and Foreign Secretary Cleverly by coronation. Cleverly would the Michael Howard to her IDS, the Sunak to her Truss
    That's just an assertion, though.

    There's no evidence for it, and nor is that path certain to follow.
    @HYUFD is never wrong until he is !!!
  • eekeek Posts: 32,803
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform may have to visibly fail before the Conservatives meaningfully come back.

    And even then, it's probably through a merger.

    In which case the Conservatives would not exist anyway, they would have been taken over and incorporated into Reform with a few of the remaining One Nation Tories going LD. Much as today’s Conservative Party of Canada was formed in 2003 by a takeover by the Canadian Reform party, by then called the Canadian Alliance, of the Progressive Conservatives with a few Progressive Conservatives going Liberal. If Reform won more seats than the Conservatives that scenario would likely be repeated here, only PR could keep the Conservatives as a separate party not FPTP.

    If however the Conservatives still win more seats than Reform at the next general election Farage will probably resign and it is the Conservatives who can retake over most of Reform again except the hardest right anti immigration element of Reform who would likely merge into Restore
    If we believe we know that this will end with a Reform/Conservative merger, then why don't you do it now?
    As it depends on which of Reform or the Conservatives wins more seats at the next general election who does the takeover. The Conservatives are also more likely to win centrist swing voters than Reform
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976
    Icarus said:

    About 500,000 voters die every year - perhaps 80% of them are Conservative and they tend to actually vote.

    Actually the ones that die each year tend quite strongly not to vote.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the Conservatives have still lost about 4-6% since even their 2024 general election low on the latest polls under Kemi relative to what they got under Rishi. Kemi has done some good policy work and shored up party finances but would Cleverly, who at the time of the 2024 leadership election polled best with voters as a whole of the Conservative leadership contenders and with 2024 Tories have lost as many 2024 Tories? I doubt it. Cleverly would also likely get more Labour and LD tactical votes for the Tories in Tory held seats to beat Reform.

    Regardless who leads them though one thing the Tories will need to learn while they are out of the top 2 nationally is the importance of the barchart. Just as the LDs as a party not in the top 2 in the polls often won more seats than their national poll rating suggested locally and indeed sometimes nationally like in 2024 with the barchart in their leaflets eg only the LDs can beat the Conservatives (or occasionally Labour) here, Labour can't win here etc. So the Tories will need barcharts in their seats saying only the Conservatives can beat Reform here (and the same in a few posher now Labour held seats like Chelsea and Fulham and Kensington and Bayswater and Finchley and Golders Green and Welwyn Hatfield ie Reform can't win here, only the Conservatives can beat Labour in this seat)

    Cleverly is a nice guy who doesn't offend anyone, but that's all he is.

    I think the Conservatives should stick with Kemi.
    For now, if the Conservatives are third or worse on NEV after the May local and devolved elections though Kemi is gone. Tory MPs would likely VONC and replace her with former Home and Foreign Secretary Cleverly by coronation. Cleverly would the Michael Howard to her IDS, the Sunak to her Truss
    That's just an assertion, though.

    There's no evidence for it, and nor is that path certain to follow.
    @HYUFD is never wrong until he is !!!
    But in the meantime he's a broken record...a broken record...a broken record...a broken record...a broken record...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,294

    FPT

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
    Sadly, creating storage caverns with large nuclear weapons doesn't work either.
    UK gas consumption has been falling for 20 years. 2024 saw the lowest consumption since 1992, I believe. Big investment in storage capacity does not seem like a priority.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,300

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    Isn't the point that he does believe it but doesn't want to say?
  • eekeek Posts: 32,803
    Nigelb said:

    Icarus said:

    About 500,000 voters die every year - perhaps 80% of them are Conservative and they tend to actually vote.

    Actually the ones that die each year tend quite strongly not to vote.
    That’s the problem - come December 31st the Tories have 500,000 fewer votes than the previous year
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    Only if you think he means it and isn't being ironic.

    Or was it Byronic?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    He might just be trolling for readers ?

    I doubt the Telegraph can shed much light on the business either way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550
    edited 9:11AM
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
    Which is bullshit. Yougov had 45%
    of LDs and a third of Labour voters
    and even a quarter of Greens willing to tactically vote Conservative in a Conservative held seat to beat Reform
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,344

    DavidL said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    Glasgow student:

    ""It was horrible, I was on the bus with my friend at the front and suddenly we turned a corner and the whole sky was orange," she said.

    Clearly a Celtic supporter.
    Cheap vapes are a fire hazard.

    They should be stored in metal containers with no more than a few in each box.

    It won't affect the "business model"...
    Wet storage.

    The UK military discovered , in WWI that the way to stop volcanic stank fires was to store the ammunition in a rack which is actually a water container. Think pigeonholes in a water tank - dry normally, but if the tank is damaged next to the stored item, its smothered in water.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976

    FPT

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
    Sadly, creating storage caverns with large nuclear weapons doesn't work either.
    UK gas consumption has been falling for 20 years. 2024 saw the lowest consumption since 1992, I believe. Big investment in storage capacity does not seem like a priority.
    It's not going away any time soon.
    And the marginal cost of gas effectively sets the price for electricity.

    Until we can confidently predict no more major disruptions to the global gas market, it would likely be a far cheaper hedge than (say) investing heavily in nuclear power.

    But you're right that in the long term it's a redundant solution.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,923
    edited 9:14AM

    Icarus said:

    About 500,000 voters die every year - perhaps 80% of them are Conservative and they tend to actually vote.

    But the hopper gets filled up with new pensioners.
    Well isn't that the problem? The hopper isn't being loaded with old school Tories. People of my age who missed the war and rationing are becoming more fash inquisitive.

    And with OfCom being so toothless with the pro Reform bullshit spouted 24/7 on CeeBeebies which is now standard breakfast fare in the Holiday Inn, Basingstoke what is to stop them?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,458
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
    He lives in his own world unable to believe he could just be wrong
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,550

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
    He lives in his own world unable to believe he could just be wrong
    I am right

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54117-what-is-the-tactical-voting-landscape-in-february-2026
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,996

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    Because it’s simply ridiculous. Yes every single camera that was trained on Epstein malfunctioned at the same time meaning there is no footage of him killing himself, but this happens all the time with inmates who, if they remain alive, will embarrass US presidents, British princes and thousands of highly powerful men. It’s a known electrical phenomenon

    They emit a kind of weird gamma frequency which interferes with any cameras nearby. Photographers have known of this for years. It’s why there’s no proper images of Bigfoot
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,101

    FPT

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
    Sadly, creating storage caverns with large nuclear weapons doesn't work either.
    UK gas consumption has been falling for 20 years. 2024 saw the lowest consumption since 1992, I believe. Big investment in storage capacity does not seem like a priority.
    There is little prospect that we won't need some form of gas backup for decades to come. No matter what the Greens try to claim, renewables are not reliable enough at present to provide security of supply. And since we are dragging our feet over those non-hydrocarbon fuel sources which are reliable - nuclear and wave power - gas is really the only viable alternative. If you believe, as I do, that the world is becoming less secure for the foreseeable future then we do need some form of storage that will help assure our supply.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,768
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    That's another Tory problem. Even if (unlikely) left of centre voters believe that a lent Tory vote is truly an anti Reform vote, there are only 120 or so seats where as things stand voting Tory is the tactical voter anti Reform option - current Tory + Reform seats. Leaving 500+ where this is not the case.

    I think most tactical voters will start their calculations from the perspective of the party of the current MP and that it is the front runner.

  • eekeek Posts: 32,803
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
    Which is bullshit. Yougov had 45%
    of LDs and a third of Labour voters
    and even a quarter of Greens willing to tactically vote Conservative in a Conservative held seat to beat Reform
    Notice one thing about all those figures it’s less than half of all voters.

    Now let’s move on to the next issue - where are those seats where the Tories are the clear opposition to Reform, as there are only 116 such seats.

    Basically the Tories are fighting to keep the seats they have at the next election
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,991

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    I think Leon is having a little joke.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,923
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
    Which is bullshit. Yougov had 45%
    of LDs and a third of Labour voters
    and even a quarter of Greens willing to tactically vote Conservative in a Conservative held seat to beat Reform
    At present I have no particular desire to vote for any of them. But I can confirm I won't be lending my vote to right wing Tories to throw their lot in with the fascists.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334
    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    He can't have been murdered because he's not dead.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,236
    Morning all :)

    From the other side of the argument...

    My perception is the Conservatives are now like the Liberal Democrats - both have ceased to be national campaigning parties (the LDs stopped a long time ago) and instead operate out of islands of strength surrounded by vast areas of weakness.

    There was a time if you didn't vote Labour, you voted Conservative and vice versa. Yes, a handful voted Liberal but not enough to matter in more than 20-25 seats.

    Now, we have Reform and the Greens so the choice for the large number of both anti-Labour and anti-Conservative voters is considerable. The Conservatives have largely been driven out of the cities and at the last election large parts of the prosperous south and south west turned against them as well. Apart from where Conservatives and LDs are in direct competition, the Conservatives still have areas which work for them and we'll see this in May.

    In London, for example, 19 Boroughs currently have no LD representation, 8 have no Conservative representation while only 2 have no Labour Councillors. I expect the number of Councils with no Conservatives to increase even if the actual number of Conservative Councillors stays much the same or increases.

    The next GE could be the most fragmented ever - whether it's analogous to the 1973 Danish election which saw insurgent parties rout the established parties remains to be seen but it's likely the Conservatives will only be competitive in 150 seats at best - in the others, while there will be a name on the ballot paper, what else will there be? The LDs will be active in 100 seats I would guess, the Greens in 50 while Labour have nominally 400 seats to defend - will they defend them all or effectively cede some to Reform or the Conservatives or the Greens or even the LDs? We'll see.

    On a personal note, I think Badenoch has been doing a good job overall - I find her constant complaining about issues which the Government of which she was a senior member had little or nothing to mitigate or resolve undermines her credibility considerably and a mea culpa from her for aspects of the 2019-24 period would be welcome. If the Welsh Conservative manifesto for the Senedd elections is, however, indicative of what will be in the Conservative manifesto at the next GE, 50 seats is all the party will get and deserve.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,630

    DavidL said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Some drone footage of the aftermath of last nights fire next to Glasgow Central station :

    https://www.tiktok.com/@vyromedia_/video/7615156447374085398?_r=1&_t=ZN-94XVQz5Y2II

    All trains cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    Glasgow student:

    ""It was horrible, I was on the bus with my friend at the front and suddenly we turned a corner and the whole sky was orange," she said.

    Clearly a Celtic supporter.
    Cheap vapes are a fire hazard.

    They should be stored in metal containers with no more than a few in each box.

    It won't affect the "business model"...
    I can see railway stations deciding to ban vape shops on their premises after this.
    You wouldn't want to live in a tenement above one certainly.

    (It might well be the vapes but it's an old, neglected Victorian building with endless cowboy electrics and loads of flammable material. At SFRS rates we'll find out in about 7 years)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,384

    We are all Tel Aviv.
    Literally, according to Grok.

    Grok is claiming a video from the central fire in Glasgow, Scotland is actually Tel Aviv.

    Stop putting any faith into this hallucinatory software.

    https://x.com/juliamacfarlane/status/2030805594454503866?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That fire looks like serious rail travel disruption and for some time
    Trains look all right.
    https://railway.co.il/en/train-schedule-tel-aviv-hahagana-to-tel-aviv-university-expo?time=12:18
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,630
    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    It's such a ludicrously small amount of cash it has the ring of truth to it. Always surprising how little it takes for someone to do something like that.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,248

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
    Which is bullshit. Yougov had 45%
    of LDs and a third of Labour voters
    and even a quarter of Greens willing to tactically vote Conservative in a Conservative held seat to beat Reform
    At present I have no particular desire to vote for any of them. But I can confirm I won't be lending my vote to right wing Tories to throw their lot in with the fascists.
    I think Kemi support for Trump will neuter many many people from tactically voting Tory to beat Reform

    If the tactical option is in the same hated bed as the Party you want defeated, basically you want both defeated surely?

    This is why Tories WILL change leader after May.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,996

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    I think Leon is having a little joke.
    A joke vastly improved by most of PB not getting it
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,120

    FPT

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
    Sadly, creating storage caverns with large nuclear weapons doesn't work either.
    UK gas consumption has been falling for 20 years. 2024 saw the lowest consumption since 1992, I believe. Big investment in storage capacity does not seem like a priority.
    There is little prospect that we won't need some form of gas backup for decades to come. No matter what the Greens try to claim, renewables are not reliable enough at present to provide security of supply. And since we are dragging our feet over those non-hydrocarbon fuel sources which are reliable - nuclear and wave power - gas is really the only viable alternative. If you believe, as I do, that the world is becoming less secure for the foreseeable future then we do need some form of storage that will help assure our supply.
    We should also build far more coal fired power stations. It generated our electricity for decades, it's abundant globally, it's easy to store and it's relatively cheap. The Chinese are building dozens.

    That, reopening the North Sea, axing the green crap and abandoning the insane marginal pricing rule would start to bring our energy prices down to competitive levels.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,923
    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    At the next general election Reform voters will vote Reform, the Tories will win very few back while Farage leads Reform. Hence Tory MPs and councillors need anti Reform Labour and LD tactical votes
    And as I’ve said no Labour or LD is going to tactically vote for them - for the reasons in my previous reply.

    You can say all you want - it simply isn’t going to happen
    Which is bullshit. Yougov had 45%
    of LDs and a third of Labour voters
    and even a quarter of Greens willing to tactically vote Conservative in a Conservative held seat to beat Reform
    At present I have no particular desire to vote for any of them. But I can confirm I won't be lending my vote to right wing Tories to throw their lot in with the fascists.
    I think Kemi support for Trump will neuter many many people from tactically voting Tory to beat Reform

    If the tactical option is in the same hated bed as the Party you want defeated, basically you want both defeated surely?

    This is why Tories WILL change leader after May.
    I'd rather they kept her. At least her replacement won't be Jenrick.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,236
    The overnight move on oil came as no real surprise and it could be serious if this is a long term change rather than short term volatility.

    I see the G7 is going to release 400 million barrels from reserves - that has steadied nerves a little but as the world uses 100 million barrels a day, it's basically a drop in the ocean.

    The pressure to reopen Hormuz and get the Gulf States oil production facilities back up to capacity will be growing - yes, we're moving into summer but that doesn't slow demand completely.

    I've heard nothing on supplies and reserves over here - we know how febrile the car driving population is (we saw that in 2022) so everyone will be reassuring supplies are still coming through and everyone will (albeit at a higher price) be able to keep their tanks filled.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,214
    If Cleverly was leader I think the Tories might have a better chance of gaining tactical voters .

    My biggest problem with a tactical vote for them is their policy on the ECHR and the EU . It’s currently a straight fight down here between the Lib Dem’s and the Tories so the issue of whether to vote tactically isn’t an issue here .
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,236
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    I think Leon is having a little joke.
    A joke vastly improved by most of PB not getting it
    You oversell yourself, sir.

    It was about as subtle as one of @TSE's thread headers.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,630

    FPT

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Surely this latest war is just more evidence we need to stop importing energy which surely means more renewables? How can anyone disagree.

    There are some alternatives. We could have massive strategic reserves of gas and oil that the government can release in an emergency (see Japan). We could nationalise and massively subsidise O&G production to isolate the industry from global energy prices and boost domestic production. Coal in theory could work because it's easy to store, we'd just need to import lots of it and, again, nationalise it in preperation for a period like this.

    These aren't cost-free options though.
    The massive gas storage facility which Conservative governments decided wasn't worth the cost of subsidising would have probably been the most cost effective mitigation.
    As a I understand it the North Sea would make an excellent gas storage facility, if we hadn't drilled it so extensively. That's why Rough is unusual for being a decent UK option, neglected until 2022 and the Ukraine invasion.

    Richard_Tyndall is online however so he can put me straight.
    The problem is not how much we have drilled. Indeed drilling/producing a field is a pre-requisite to reduce the existing volumes/pressures in the formation so you can then use it to store gas. And the cement we use to abandon wells is, by necessity, stronger than the surrounding formations. This is my job these days, abandoning hundreds of wells across the North Sea and Denmark. As long as it is done properly then it has no impact on the storage capabilities.

    The problem with the gas storage is that continualy pumping gas into and out of the formation weakens it over time. Rough has no where near the capacity it had at the start of its storage life because of this. And suprisingly the number of fields suitable for such storage are vanishingly small. I am not aware currently of any other serious contenders for gas storage in the UK sector - although some of those being looked at for CCS might be suitable. Germany generally uses salt as the storage formation for its gas reserves which is much more stable but in the North Sea the Zechstein Salts are much deeper which causes a lot of additional problems as the pressures are higher and salt under pressure acts like a fluid and flows.

    I am sure there are suitable targets but successive governments over the last 40 years have not really invested in looking for or apppraising them.
    Sadly, creating storage caverns with large nuclear weapons doesn't work either.
    UK gas consumption has been falling for 20 years. 2024 saw the lowest consumption since 1992, I believe. Big investment in storage capacity does not seem like a priority.
    There is little prospect that we won't need some form of gas backup for decades to come. No matter what the Greens try to claim, renewables are not reliable enough at present to provide security of supply. And since we are dragging our feet over those non-hydrocarbon fuel sources which are reliable - nuclear and wave power - gas is really the only viable alternative. If you believe, as I do, that the world is becoming less secure for the foreseeable future then we do need some form of storage that will help assure our supply.
    There is always going to be a cold, dark, still week in January which we never be able to cover with renewables. Storage + CCGT is the answer.

    I do note however that Scotland is currently operating at 100% renewables + nuclear. That means my electricity bill will be unaffected, right?!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,384
    Britain’s aircraft carrier may need French escort
    Lack of available warships in the Royal Navy could force UK to rely on close Nato allies

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/08/britains-aircraft-carrier-may-need-french-escort/ (£££)

    Naval clickbait from the Telegraph. It doesn't have to be the French navy; it could be America, or anyone really. But not us because with the MoD's usual joined-up thinking we've sent our only available (nearly) destroyer to Cyprus.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,996
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Funny. Of all the conspiracy theories you buy into and THIS is the one that is a step too far?
    I think Leon is having a little joke.
    A joke vastly improved by most of PB not getting it
    You oversell yourself, sir.

    It was about as subtle as one of @TSE's thread headers.
    And yet it seemed to mystify most of PB, who took it at face value. Unless they were double bluffing with meta-sarcasm

    Either way, it’s given me a chuckle. Which is what counts on a slightly grey Monday morning
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,958
    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think the Tory problem is simple. If you want a Reform government you vote Reform. If you don't, you vote for the party that can beat Reform in your seat AND certainly won't help them govern. It doesn't matter what they say, people will believe the Tories might sustain a Reform government.

    If (like me) you want an old fashioned One Nation Tory government, tough.

    The Tory dilemma may be insoluble for now.

    The problem is if the Tories rule out supporting Reform the follow up questions are likely to result in the Tories calling Reform out as the racists they are.

    And you can’t call your potential voters racist.
    More than half of Reform voters want to deport my kids. I'm not sure what I'm meant to do with this information, other than doing everything I can to ensure they don't get to run the country.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,540
    edited 9:30AM
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Why are people still pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theories about Epstein “being murdered”, or whatever. I’m sick and tired of it. This is just the latest vapid bilge from the Telegraph


    “The last prison guard to see Jeffrey Epstein alive made suspicious cash deposits in the 12 months before his death, US Department of Justice (DoJ) files reveal.

    “Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York on Aug 10, 2019. His death was ruled a suicide.

    “Tova Noel, 37, one of two officers accused of falsifying prisoner record checks that night, made a final cash deposit of $5,000 (£3,729) into her bank account less than a fortnight earlier on July 30.

    “A total of 12 ATM cash deposits, beginning in October 2018, were flagged by her bank to the FBI in a “suspicious activity report” in November 2019.

    “Ms Noel and her colleague Michael Thomas were fired after being accused of falsifying records to claim they checked on Epstein during the night before his suicide on Aug 10 that year.

    “CCTV footage revealed the pair did not check on Epstein for eight hours, despite his cell being just 15 feet from the guards’ desk.

    Criminal charges against them were later dropped.”


    Why can’t people just let it go? Jeffrey Epstein was a nasty criminal but in the end he was better and he realised he’d done bad things and stuff, and decided to off himself as a punishment to himself. Indeed he was so honourable at the end he killed himself when it wouldn’t be too upsetting because all the guards were asleep. Just accept it and stop talking about it.

    Two reasons why people won't let go. Firstly, stating a conspiracy theory is easier than refuting it and requires next to no effort. Secondly, unlike many conspiracy theories (flat earth, no moon landings etc) it is not impossible to think it might be true. And we don't have reasons for thinking this USA regime is deeply wedded to the idea of transparent truthfulness.

    If credulous Leon is rejecting a conspiracy theory, is one to assume that there might actually be something in it?
  • isamisam Posts: 43,817
    edited 9:34AM
    98 brand new luxury apartments in Chelmsford.

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    Welcome to King William Court Modern Britain in a nutshell

    SERIOUS QUESTION How is this FAIR!


    https://x.com/benonwine/status/2030674303511822682?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    King William Court is an outstanding development combining Studios, 1 & 2 bedroom contemporary apartments, featuring spacious interiors designed to make the most of light, space and clean lines wherever you turn located right in the heart of Chelmsford City Centre.

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    https://www.haart.co.uk/land-new-homes/king-william-court/
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