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Why the Tory party is becoming more like the Lib Dems – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,475
    edited 12:41PM
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334
    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,248

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,294
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    Calling the people who threw the bombs "supporters of the mayor" and calling the violent nutcase a "moron" shows your biases.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,852

    Brixian59 said:

    Miliband is a Cnut.

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2030905119273816421

    Ministers are discussing the possibility of intervening to protect the public against soaring household energy bills if the Middle East conflict drags on.

    The energy secretary, Ed Miliband, is understood to believe that prices cannot be allowed to rise substantially.

    Oh really? Just watch them. Mr Market has deeper pockets than you, Ed.

    Iraq has become the first country to start shutting in oilfields because it can't export through the Straits of Hormuz. "It won't be the last."

    Any plan to take on Iran without a detailed plan to secure the Straits was bobbins. And that plan would have been HARD to implement.
    Strange how Tories seem to think trying to cut energy prices makes someone a cnut.

    Meanwhile Kemi wants a debate on implementation of petrol price cap in September.

    Yes September... Playground politics
    It's curious that Kemi wants to implement policies to mitigate a situation that she asserts was a spectacularly good idea. I think the British Right will have to pivot quite shortly - they can't really get their teeth into Sir Keir while continually trumpeting the supposed flawless judgement of Donald. Something will have to be jettisoned.
    Agreed, Trump and his useful idiots supporting this war needs to own the consequences.

    And the rising energy prices are extremely fucking obvious consequences of invading Iran from the sky, given they were always bound to retaliate and close the Hormuz strait. And the only realistic way to stop them is to 'win' the war, whatever that means.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,475

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    Calling the people who threw the bombs "supporters of the mayor" and calling the violent nutcase a "moron" shows your biases.
    So who threw the bombs?

    https://abcnews.com/US/4-arrested-after-suspicious-device-thrown-protest-nyc/story?id=130863389

    Two Pennsylvania men arrested outside the residence of New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani during a counterprotest on Saturday told investigators they watched ISIS videos and confronted the far-right, anti-immigrant provocateur Jake Lang, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

    Emir Balat of Langhorne, Pennsylvania, and Ibrahim Kayumi of Newton, Pennsylvania, are expected to face federal charges after they allegedly threw possible explosive devices during the counterprotest, the sources said.

    The devices they allegedly threw, at first thought to be smoke bombs, were tested by the New York Police Department's bomb squad and determined to have been possible explosive devices, according to the sources.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    Calling the people who threw the bombs "supporters of the mayor" and calling the violent nutcase a "moron" shows your biases.
    So who threw the bombs?

    https://abcnews.com/US/4-arrested-after-suspicious-device-thrown-protest-nyc/story?id=130863389

    Two Pennsylvania men arrested outside the residence of New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani during a counterprotest on Saturday told investigators they watched ISIS videos and confronted the far-right, anti-immigrant provocateur Jake Lang, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

    Emir Balat of Langhorne, Pennsylvania, and Ibrahim Kayumi of Newton, Pennsylvania, are expected to face federal charges after they allegedly threw possible explosive devices during the counterprotest, the sources said.

    The devices they allegedly threw, at first thought to be smoke bombs, were tested by the New York Police Department's bomb squad and determined to have been possible explosive devices, according to the sources.
    And your evidence for calling them "supporters of the mayor" is ?
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,052

    Miliband is a Cnut.

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2030905119273816421

    Ministers are discussing the possibility of intervening to protect the public against soaring household energy bills if the Middle East conflict drags on.

    The energy secretary, Ed Miliband, is understood to believe that prices cannot be allowed to rise substantially.

    Where is the money coming from ?
    The bond markets.

    Oh...
    Quantitive Easing is free money!!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,320

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Britain is heavily anti-Trump.

    Reform UK and Tories allying with him is a very big mistake.

    Allying with the person whose war is about to create a Depression probably wasn’t their wisest move.

    There were reasons why saner Presidents left Iran alone even though they really didn’t like Iran, I think we are going to see why that was the case

    The irony is Trump sold himself as the GOP candidate who was NOT going to bomb Iran unlike the likes of Bolton & Haley. 5 minutes into his second term with Netanyahu in his ear and...

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian

    Let me predict the future for you.

    Oil Stays >$100 for a few more days.

    Trump panics as he sees his Poll Numbers collapse further.

    Trump makes some schizophrenic truth social post that the U.S. won this war.

    U.S. soldiers leave Iran.

    The Ayatollah’s Son just got a 40 year reign courtesy of the Red White & Blue.

    Trump & Hegseth bomb Cuba next.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/2030825072194097219
    You're Havana laugh!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
    Your interpretation of it is technically and factually bollocks.
    It's entirely clear, as is the story below, which doesn't adopt the right wing media habit of burying the essential details in the last paragraph.

    "libsofticktock". Please.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,213
    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    Most UK oil is exported and you’d have to build more refineries to deal with the type that’s extracted from the North Sea if you want more of that kept in the UK .

    And oil is traded internationally so you’d still get energy price spikes . Look at the USA which produces vast amounts and prices there have gone up significantly in a week .
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,349

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    I'm surprised Kemi and Nigel aren't wearing blinkers if they have to lick Trumps oily arse.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,457
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Perhaps a good time to announce help on energy bills is early May !

    Never let a crisis go to waste . At the same time nail Farage and Badenoch to the wall on their support for the war and its economic impact on the UK .

    Job done and the elections in May might not be such a horror show for Labour !

    Needs to explain where the money is coming from not least with bond rates soaring and huge increases needed now in defence spending
    Many countries are likely to have to step in and so like Covid the money markets won’t just be using the UK as a punchbag .

    Agreed but that doesn't help the UK government

    It is not so long ago that this happened due to Ukraine war and as then so now the government will be held responsible

    It is ironic that history seems to be repeating itself
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,475
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
    Your interpretation of it is technically and factually bollocks.
    It's entirely clear, as is the story below, which doesn't adopt the right wing media habit of burying the essential details in the last paragraph.

    "libsofticktock". Please.
    Really? All “libsoftiktok” has done is pulled headlines from newspapers that are deliberately distorting the incident.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,416
    Trumps going to do a total Pierre P on Nigel
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,630
    edited 12:58PM
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    Grangemouth has been doomed since 2023 when the hydrocracker failed and Ineos didn't fix it. I don't think there's any way to lay that on Miliband tbh.

    I agree that we shouldn't have restrictions on the North Sea but people suggesting it would have any material impact on the current crisis are taking the piss or have an ulterior motive. The only sane response to this is to accelerate the transition of our consumption to electricity (and thereby domestic renewables) - a lesson we should have learnt in 2022.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,457
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
    Are you really so stupid that you ignore the billions of tax revenue the government would and should receive over the next 20 years

    Explain why Norway good - UK bad
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,589
    Before the panic buying gets completely out of hand:


    "The United States should coordinate its petroleum reserve release with the International Energy Agency’s member countries, which collectively hold 1.2 billion barrels in government stockpiles. Combined global oil inventories, which include government stocks and those held by private companies, stand at 8.2 billion barrels — theoretically enough to compensate for a complete Hormuz closure for over a year. The current energy crisis is manageable, whether or not the U.S. Navy intervenes in Hormuz, particularly if governments act together."

    NY Times
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,991
    edited 12:57PM
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    Is the far right protestor the one who brought a whole roast pig to Mamdani's residence? He likes a Hitler salute I believe, let's hope he doesn't do the pig thing at a synagogue or home of a Jewish politician, too many exploding Maga heads.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,633
    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    Yep. But not happening while the fundamentalist zealot Miliband holds sway over such things. Many of the proletariat may freeze, but that's a price he's willing to pay, a righteous hairshirt by which he can prove the integrity of his beliefs.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,475
    edited 12:58PM

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    Is the far right protestor the one who brought a whole roast pig to Mamdani's residence? He likes a Hitler salute I believe, let's hope he doesn't do the pig thing at a synagogue or home of a Jewish politician, too many exploding Maga heads.
    Yes, that’s him. Total scumbag.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,457
    edited 1:00PM
    Brixian59 said:

    nico67 said:

    Perhaps a good time to announce help on energy bills is early May !

    Never let a crisis go to waste . At the same time nail Farage and Badenoch to the wall on their support for the war and its economic impact on the UK .

    Job done and the elections in May might not be such a horror show for Labour !

    Needs to explain where the money is coming from not least with bond rates soaring and huge increases needed now in defence spending
    Fuck defence spending until Trump and Bibi have stopped their shit show.

    A plane in 6 years not 5 or a shop in 11 years not 10 stops no one from freezing or petrol rising.

    Bomb Trumps oilfields that'll stop the cnut
    Bomb Trump's oilfields after bomb Tel Aviv and do not spend on our defence to keep us safe sounds like the far left

    Then you are the far left

    You and Farage are at the opposite ends of the horseshoe and bad as each other
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,213
    edited 1:01PM

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Perhaps a good time to announce help on energy bills is early May !

    Never let a crisis go to waste . At the same time nail Farage and Badenoch to the wall on their support for the war and its economic impact on the UK .

    Job done and the elections in May might not be such a horror show for Labour !

    Needs to explain where the money is coming from not least with bond rates soaring and huge increases needed now in defence spending
    Many countries are likely to have to step in and so like Covid the money markets won’t just be using the UK as a punchbag .

    Agreed but that doesn't help the UK government

    It is not so long ago that this happened due to Ukraine war and as then so now the government will be held responsible

    It is ironic that history seems to be repeating itself
    You didn’t though have two parties supporting a war which will cause a big economic impact on the UK. The more I see of the war the more it looks like an absolute disaster. Iran is likely holding back some missiles and drones so that it can do just enough to prolong the war and cause maximum economic pain globally.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,822
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    Grangemouth has been doomed since 2023 when the hydrocracker failed and Ineos didn't fix it. I don't think there's any way to lay that on Miliband tbh.
    And why didn't they fix it? Because the direction of travel in the UK was already clear, the incoming government was going to do what it could to discourage North Sea exploration and even the SNP ( trademark "It's Scotland's Oil!) were playing along. We shot ourselves in the foot on the basis of a frankly bizarre theory that not exploiting the North Sea would increase oil prices and reduce world consumption. Utterly delusional.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334
    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    Most UK oil is exported and you’d have to build more refineries to deal with the type that’s extracted from the North Sea if you want more of that kept in the UK .

    And oil is traded internationally so you’d still get energy price spikes . Look at the USA which produces vast amounts and prices there have gone up significantly in a week .
    I think selling safe $120 per barrel oil would be pretty good for our economy, don't you?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,494
    edited 1:06PM
    BBC opening on US killing 160 girls in a school in Iran. We all knew the Americans did it but Trump said it was an Iranian bomb that went wrong. Apparently this isn't going down well in the US. You know what they're like for finding goodies and baddies and it's unlikely that other leaders wont be affected.

    'BBC verify' have verified.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,294
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    You write, "whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East". Are we?

    UK gas supply (domestic supply and imports), 2024 data https://www.sunsave.energy/blog/uk-gas-sources
    Qatar 8.6%
    Egypt 0.14%
    Non-Middle East 91.26%

    UK oil supply, https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/trendsinukimportsandexportsoffuels/2022-06-29#a-closer-look-at-oil - again, very little from the Middle East.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,152



    There isn't necessarily always going to be a cold, dark, still week in January that we are never able to cover with renewables. Tidal and geothermal continue regardless of the weather. Hydroelectric is less connected to the weather and pumped-storage hydroelectricity is unaffected by the weather. More efficient solar and more solar means you make the most of whatever the weather conditions are. Better interconnectivity means you can rely on somewhere where it's windier and brighter.

    If you are going to burn carbon, it can be domestically produced biofuels, biogas and waste-to-energy.

    So, should we be spending money on a big investment in methane storage capacity, or could we spend it better on nuclear, wave, geothermal, biofuels, solar...?

    I was curious what the current figures are for UK gas imports. 2024 figures are...

    Norway 50.2%
    Domestic (North Sea) 33.8%
    US 11%
    Qatar 1.2%
    Trinidad and Tobago 1.1%
    others less than 1% each

    And then I thought, what would Trump do? Presumably invade Trinidad and Tobago. How quickly can we get an aircraft carrier to the Caribbean?

    As I said earlier, remember Norway already proposed cutting the supply of gas to the UK last year.

    And a few other points:

    Current hydro capacity is about 1 percent of demand.
    Pumped Storage is not generation. It is simply a liquid battery.
    Tidal and geothermal are almost non existent in the UK and successive governments have refused to invest in them, which is criminal to my mind.
    Interconnectvity can only provide about 9GW of power total. Peak demand in the UK is around 60GW.

    All of these things are important and on a decades level, if we get a government with any sense (no laughing at the back please), then tidal, geothermal and nuclear could be a huge leap forward for us. But that is a very very long way away. Even further with the sorts of governments we seem to get these days.
    It's worth a mention that the UK's first geothermal power plant has just been turned on:

    Earth's heat to power 10,000 homes in renewable energy first for UK

    It's not much and it's been a long time coming, but it's a start.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,113
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Perhaps a good time to announce help on energy bills is early May !

    Never let a crisis go to waste . At the same time nail Farage and Badenoch to the wall on their support for the war and its economic impact on the UK .

    Job done and the elections in May might not be such a horror show for Labour !

    Needs to explain where the money is coming from not least with bond rates soaring and huge increases needed now in defence spending
    Many countries are likely to have to step in and so like Covid the money markets won’t just be using the UK as a punchbag .

    Agreed but that doesn't help the UK government

    It is not so long ago that this happened due to Ukraine war and as then so now the government will be held responsible

    It is ironic that history seems to be repeating itself
    You didn’t though have two parties supporting a war which will cause a big economic impact on the UK. The more I see of the war the more it looks like an absolute disaster. Iran is likely holding back some missiles and drones so that it can do just enough to prolong the war and cause maximum economic pain globally.
    We'll all end up as supporters of the war if the only way to get things back to normal is to defeat the Iranian regime.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,457

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
    If we buy oil and gas abroad, the money goes abroad

    If we use oil and gas produced in the U.K. North Sea, the money goes to the U.K. and is taxed. It also supports a number of jobs in the U.K.

    If we sell North Sea oil on the international market at a high price, the oil companies can then buy the expensive, overseas oil that suits our refineries, with the profits.

    It’s almost as if producing oil and gas during a time of high prices makes money or something.
    Norway is the prime example

    There should be no argument other than generate billions of tax receipts
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,648
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    Grangemouth has been doomed since 2023 when the hydrocracker failed and Ineos didn't fix it. I don't think there's any way to lay that on Miliband tbh.

    I agree that we shouldn't have restrictions on the North Sea but people suggesting it would have any material impact on the current crisis are taking the piss or have an ulterior motive. The only sane response to this is to accelerate the transition of our consumption to electricity (and thereby domestic renewables) - a lesson we should have learnt in 2022.
    In the short term we should increase production from existing wells as far as possible. Although it will have a minimal effect on global production and prices, it will help our balance of payments and provide a short term increase in tax revenues when most needed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,822
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    Grangemouth has been doomed since 2023 when the hydrocracker failed and Ineos didn't fix it. I don't think there's any way to lay that on Miliband tbh.

    I agree that we shouldn't have restrictions on the North Sea but people suggesting it would have any material impact on the current crisis are taking the piss or have an ulterior motive. The only sane response to this is to accelerate the transition of our consumption to electricity (and thereby domestic renewables) - a lesson we should have learnt in 2022.
    But we have been doing that as one offshore wind farm after another comes on line and increasing solar production. And if we were still producing meaningful quantities of oil we could at least have insulated our economy from the really nasty shock we are suffering now. It's not as if we have done nothing in recent years.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    Grangemouth has been doomed since 2023 when the hydrocracker failed and Ineos didn't fix it. I don't think there's any way to lay that on Miliband tbh.

    I agree that we shouldn't have restrictions on the North Sea but people suggesting it would have any material impact on the current crisis are taking the piss or have an ulterior motive. The only sane response to this is to accelerate the transition of our consumption to electricity (and thereby domestic renewables) - a lesson we should have learnt in 2022.
    But why didn't they fix it? Which fool would invest hundreds of millions into an oil refinery when the incoming government had a very clear pledge to kill all new licences?

    I think if we had more production of oil and gas from our own reserves it would hugely benefit the economy at times like these. There would be a huge tax windfall from selling the oil on the open market that we could use to invest in renewables or nuclear etc...

    Now we're not going to get that because the government has decided to throw away that GDP to other countries who haven't stopped exploration and drilling.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,958

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Britain is heavily anti-Trump.

    Reform UK and Tories allying with him is a very big mistake.

    Allying with the person whose war is about to create a Depression probably wasn’t their wisest move.

    There were reasons why saner Presidents left Iran alone even though they really didn’t like Iran, I think we are going to see why that was the case

    The irony is Trump sold himself as the GOP candidate who was NOT going to bomb Iran unlike the likes of Bolton & Haley. 5 minutes into his second term with Netanyahu in his ear and...

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian

    Let me predict the future for you.

    Oil Stays >$100 for a few more days.

    Trump panics as he sees his Poll Numbers collapse further.

    Trump makes some schizophrenic truth social post that the U.S. won this war.

    U.S. soldiers leave Iran.

    The Ayatollah’s Son just got a 40 year reign courtesy of the Red White & Blue.

    Trump & Hegseth bomb Cuba next.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/2030825072194097219
    You're Havana laugh!
    Trump: it got scary and Iran away.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,113
    Fuel crisis here we come:

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2030985225883300274

    The AA and RAC are advising drivers to conserve fuel and cut back on non-essential journeys amid fears soaring oil prices will increase petrol costs
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,822

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    You write, "whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East". Are we?

    UK gas supply (domestic supply and imports), 2024 data https://www.sunsave.energy/blog/uk-gas-sources
    Qatar 8.6%
    Egypt 0.14%
    Non-Middle East 91.26%

    UK oil supply, https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/trendsinukimportsandexportsoffuels/2022-06-29#a-closer-look-at-oil - again, very little from the Middle East.
    Interesting. Thank goodness Norway doesn't have a Miliband equivalent.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,494
    PS It was US not Israeli. It's on film and only the US use Tomahawks
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,294
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
    Your interpretation of it is technically and factually bollocks.
    It's entirely clear, as is the story below, which doesn't adopt the right wing media habit of burying the essential details in the last paragraph.

    "libsofticktock". Please.
    Really? All “libsoftiktok” has done is pulled headlines from newspapers that are deliberately distorting the incident.
    Is that all libsoftiktok has done? Let's check their Wikipedia page:

    Libs of TikTok is the username of various American anti-LGBTQ[b] and far-right[a] social-media accounts operated by Chaya Raichik (/ˈxɑːjə ˈraɪtʃɪk/ KHAH-yə RY-chik),[10] [...]

    Raichik's posts have resulted in threats, harassment, and doxing perpetuated by her followers against teachers, medical providers, children's hospitals, libraries, LGBTQ venues, and educational facilities.[22][23][24] At least 60 bomb threats have been linked to Libs of TikTok posts.[24][25][26]

    [...]

    On November 20, 2022, Libs of TikTok received renewed media attention following the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting,[116][22][117] a mass killing that took place at an LGBTQ venue in which five people were killed and dozens more were injured. Club Q, the venue targeted by the shooter, frequently hosts drag events, including those advertised to an all-ages audience. The Independent noted that Libs of TikTok often attracts negative attention to such events with her social media accounts and that harassment and threats are often sent by her followers against patrons and performers following her postings.[22] Hours after the shooting, Raichik used her Twitter account to target a "drag organization" in the same state where the massacre took place, underlining the names of two Colorado state legislators, one of whom was trans, for supporting it.[116][118][119] The Advocate criticized the post, saying that: "In the hours after news of the Club Q shooting spread, Raichik, for example, doubled down on her anti-LGBTQ+ messaging by posting about other drag-inclusive events in the state."[120] They drew attention to an interview previously published on their website with Juliette Kayyem, a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security, in which she stated that social media accounts such as Libs of TikTok practice stochastic terrorism by provoking extremist outrage against marginalized groups, but using "vague language that allows the agitator to deny responsibility for the act".[120]
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Perhaps a good time to announce help on energy bills is early May !

    Never let a crisis go to waste . At the same time nail Farage and Badenoch to the wall on their support for the war and its economic impact on the UK .

    Job done and the elections in May might not be such a horror show for Labour !

    Needs to explain where the money is coming from not least with bond rates soaring and huge increases needed now in defence spending
    Many countries are likely to have to step in and so like Covid the money markets won’t just be using the UK as a punchbag .

    Agreed but that doesn't help the UK government

    It is not so long ago that this happened due to Ukraine war and as then so now the government will be held responsible

    It is ironic that history seems to be repeating itself
    You didn’t though have two parties supporting a war which will cause a big economic impact on the UK. The more I see of the war the more it looks like an absolute disaster. Iran is likely holding back some missiles and drones so that it can do just enough to prolong the war and cause maximum economic pain globally.
    We'll all end up as supporters of the war if the only way to get things back to normal is to defeat the Iranian regime.
    That is going to mean boots on the ground, at least on Kharg Island. That way we can have control over what Iran can export, and to where. Any tankers being attacked, then Iran gets to export no oil and reparations come out of frozen bank accounts of the regime held in the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain etc.

    Probably best if the boots on the ground ar Kharg Island are GCC countries rather than than US. The sooner the US gets stood down from this fight, the safer the world's economy looks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334
    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surely now is the time to grant as many new oil and gas licences as possible.

    There simply wasn't a time where that was not the case. It was madness to allow North Sea production to fall away faster than it needed to whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East. Let's face it, although this particular madness by Trump was not on any sane person's radar, some trouble in that region is hardly a surprise.

    Restricting our own production and allowing some of the infrastructure needed for production of new small fields in the North Sea to fall into disuse was not required by our carbon targets nor was the opposite incompatible. We want to replace oil and gas with renewables as much as we can, we want to reduce our carbon footprint but importing what we could have produced ourselves keeping the likes of Grangemouth, which closed last year, supplied with feedstock was simply a no brainer. Miliband is profoundly stupid and dangerous and now we pay the price.
    You write, "whilst we are importing oil and gas from the Middle East". Are we?

    UK gas supply (domestic supply and imports), 2024 data https://www.sunsave.energy/blog/uk-gas-sources
    Qatar 8.6%
    Egypt 0.14%
    Non-Middle East 91.26%

    UK oil supply, https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/trendsinukimportsandexportsoffuels/2022-06-29#a-closer-look-at-oil - again, very little from the Middle East.
    Interesting. Thank goodness Norway doesn't have a Miliband equivalent.
    The issue is that everyone and his dog is now buying LNG from non Middle Eastern sources and there just isn't enough of it available to meet global demand. It's a massive fuck up by the government not to have domestic oil and gas running at absolute maximum.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445
    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Do we actually have any mothballed coal power generation plants? I seem to recall lots of high-profile coverage of cooling towers being blown up.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,958
    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Price goes up, demand goes down. Supply=demand in equilibrium.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,475
    edited 1:22PM

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
    Your interpretation of it is technically and factually bollocks.
    It's entirely clear, as is the story below, which doesn't adopt the right wing media habit of burying the essential details in the last paragraph.

    "libsofticktock". Please.
    Really? All “libsoftiktok” has done is pulled headlines from newspapers that are deliberately distorting the incident.
    Is that all libsoftiktok has done? Let's check their Wikipedia page:
    If that’s your reaction to someone posting a compilation of misleading MSM headlines, then there’s no saving you. Play the ball.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HC6hhhlbEAA_8TA?format=jpg&name=large

    How many of these headlines do you think make it clear, that the protestors outside the mayor’s residence were the *victims* of the terrorist bomb attack rather than the perpetrators of it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445



    There isn't necessarily always going to be a cold, dark, still week in January that we are never able to cover with renewables. Tidal and geothermal continue regardless of the weather. Hydroelectric is less connected to the weather and pumped-storage hydroelectricity is unaffected by the weather. More efficient solar and more solar means you make the most of whatever the weather conditions are. Better interconnectivity means you can rely on somewhere where it's windier and brighter.

    If you are going to burn carbon, it can be domestically produced biofuels, biogas and waste-to-energy.

    So, should we be spending money on a big investment in methane storage capacity, or could we spend it better on nuclear, wave, geothermal, biofuels, solar...?

    I was curious what the current figures are for UK gas imports. 2024 figures are...

    Norway 50.2%
    Domestic (North Sea) 33.8%
    US 11%
    Qatar 1.2%
    Trinidad and Tobago 1.1%
    others less than 1% each

    And then I thought, what would Trump do? Presumably invade Trinidad and Tobago. How quickly can we get an aircraft carrier to the Caribbean?

    As I said earlier, remember Norway already proposed cutting the supply of gas to the UK last year.

    And a few other points:

    Current hydro capacity is about 1 percent of demand.
    Pumped Storage is not generation. It is simply a liquid battery.
    Tidal and geothermal are almost non existent in the UK and successive governments have refused to invest in them, which is criminal to my mind.
    Interconnectvity can only provide about 9GW of power total. Peak demand in the UK is around 60GW.

    All of these things are important and on a decades level, if we get a government with any sense (no laughing at the back please), then tidal, geothermal and nuclear could be a huge leap forward for us. But that is a very very long way away. Even further with the sorts of governments we seem to get these days.
    It's worth a mention that the UK's first geothermal power plant has just been turned on:

    Earth's heat to power 10,000 homes in renewable energy first for UK

    It's not much and it's been a long time coming, but it's a start.
    A pitiful start A Cardiff tidal lagoon power station could power north of 1.4 million homes.

    Just sayin'...
  • eekeek Posts: 32,803

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Price goes up, demand goes down. Supply=demand in equilibrium.
    Energy prices are remarkable price inelastic - after all most people don’t want to freeze to death and food needs to be delivered
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,476
    There are lots of ways in which the West can turn $100 oil to its advantage.
  • MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Starmer may have the misfortune to be in power when multiple mistakes made by previous administrations start coming home to roost. The state of the Royal Navy is the current one, but you're right that energy is probably the next.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,998
    kinabalu said:

    We non drivers with bus passes are unconcerned by the oil crisis.
    *smug*

    Good thing you don't use electricity or gas. Or eat food. Or buys things.

    There's a reason why price shocks like this lead to recessions.
    A recession is perfectly possible. Nobody knows. It depends on the actions of people outside these shores. We have zero control over things.

    I’m livid about it. How are we meant to have a decade of national renewal with Donald Trump constantly blundering around screwing life up for everybody. There's a sovereignty issue here when you think about it. The US has an enormous impact, economy, culture, mood, on us. Who their president is is actually more important to the UK than who sits in Downing St. That's a fact. Yet we have no vote on it. We have no say whatsoever in their elections.

    The term, I believe, is democratic deficit and it’s a whopping big one. Far bigger than the one frequently complained about in the EU. There we had a vote and a veto and (unlike with Trump’s USA) we benefited from most of what was done. Given even that arrangement proved intolerable to us the same in spades must apply to this relationship with America. Special? Yes it’s ‘special’ alright. I don’t know what the answer is – it's a tricky one - but a good start would be to join me in being livid.
    If we were a net oil and gas exporter, as we should be, then we would be profiting off high prices and the taxes from that would be slashing our deficit.

    It is only pigheaded ignorance that is the reason why we are not a net exporter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976
    US possibly pulling air defence out of S Korea to send to the Gulf.

    Korea, US kick off major spring drills amid speculation over Patriot redeployment
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/southkorea/defense/20260309/s-korea-us-kick-off-major-spring-drills-amid-speculation-over-patriot-redeployment
    ..The exercise comes amid rising indications that Patriot missile systems operated by USFK have been redeployed to the Middle East, as demand for interceptor missiles and air defense systems grows following the Feb. 28 U.S.-Israeli strikes on Iran.

    Several U.S. military transport aircraft have been seen arriving at and departing from a U.S. air base in Pyeongtaek, just south of Seoul, in recent days, fueling speculation that USFK may be preparing to move missile defense systems to other regions.

    USFK has not confirmed the deployment, citing operational security..
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,947
    Andy_JS said:

    There are lots of ways in which the West can turn $100 oil to its advantage.

    Further motivating the move to renewables, hopefully.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,113
    https://x.com/trussliz/status/2030975192256655720

    My plan in 2022 was to lower the cost of domestic energy in Britain (relative to the international market) by:

    - abolishing windfall tax on North Sea
    - licensing new North Sea production
    - allowing fracking
    - abolishing green taxes and subsidies

    This would have lowered Britain's domestic energy costs relative to the international market.

    At the same time we would guarantee that energy bills would not go above £2,500 - recognising the prior state failure in ensuring security of energy and the necessity of energy for the economy.

    Because this only paid out when energy prices were high- its cost would be quickly reduced/eliminated by falling domestic energy prices thanks to supply side policy.

    Needless to say the Treasury was unable/unwilling to model this and the policy was missrepresented by the media who simply don't understand this stuff.

    My successors continued with the price guarantee but failed to implement the supply side measures.

    Thus we are back to square one.

    It's still the right policy.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Price goes up, demand goes down. Supply=demand in equilibrium.
    Demand going down will lead to blackouts, which was my point. There just won't be enough LNG to keep all the lights on for all of the people. Richer countries like the UK might be ok, other countries might not and could be in for months of rolling blackouts. We might be if the government decides that the cost of doing business is too high and doesn't subsidise purchases.

    The government seems completely frozen. By now they should have begun recommissioning coal plants ready for use just in case. I'd rather burn a bit of coal for the next few months than have economy crippling rolling blackouts.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,334
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    There are lots of ways in which the West can turn $100 oil to its advantage.

    Further motivating the move to renewables, hopefully.
    If only we had a huge tax windfall from $120 oil to fund extra subsidies to get renewables and nuclear up and running faster.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,998
    Oil and gas will be needed forever. Even once we completely transition to renewable energy, there will still be uses for oil and gas.

    We should as a matter of policy be seeking to be a net exporter, not an importer, of the stuff. It is something we have a practical, competitive advantage in for international trade.

    Instead we "model" the "emissions" of extraction but model zero emissions for extraction abroad and don't tax the emissions abroad, so we are just off-shoring pollution and thus foregoing all the economic advantages and taxes while doing diddly squat to help the environment.

    Ignorant, stupid policy.

    We should be cutting consumption of oil and gas for environmental reasons, where possible, but not production for which we should be net exporters.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976
    Now this is the kind of media reporting which does infuriate me.
    Nobody with sufficient intelligence to become a reported can be stupid enough to actually believe this.

    I asked President Trump about Ukraine during our phone call Thursday.

    His answer surprised me.

    He said Putin is ready to make a deal — but Zelenskyy isn’t..

    https://x.com/DashaBurns/status/2030793061568233824
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,998
    Nigelb said:

    Now this is the kind of media reporting which does infuriate me.
    Nobody with sufficient intelligence to become a reported can be stupid enough to actually believe this.

    I asked President Trump about Ukraine during our phone call Thursday.

    His answer surprised me.

    He said Putin is ready to make a deal — but Zelenskyy isn’t..

    https://x.com/DashaBurns/status/2030793061568233824

    He's been a dipshit on this since the invasion began.

    His idea of a "deal" is Putin gets everything he wants, and Zelenskyy surrenders totally.

    If Zelenskyy isn't prepared to surrender unconditionally, then he's not willing to make a deal.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,887
    edited 1:35PM

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Starmer may have the misfortune to be in power when multiple mistakes made by previous administrations start coming home to roost. The state of the Royal Navy is the current one, but you're right that energy is probably the next.
    Food is another. We should have a strategic reserve of calories to last the full population a year but we do not. Western Europeans have started building out storage depots but the UK is lagging. And unsurprisingly the Chinese are far ahead of the game on this.

    IMO we lost so much national resilience because of the Thatcherite consensus on state owned strategic industries.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,976
    Thoughts and prayers for JD.

    Vance: "When people like Kamala Harris send our sons and daughters, our young people, to fight in stupid wars, it is the young generation that carries the burden of that. We're gonna stop sending our young people to far away lands. We are not the policemen of the world." (Aug 2024)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,998

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Perhaps a good time to announce help on energy bills is early May !

    Never let a crisis go to waste . At the same time nail Farage and Badenoch to the wall on their support for the war and its economic impact on the UK .

    Job done and the elections in May might not be such a horror show for Labour !

    Needs to explain where the money is coming from not least with bond rates soaring and huge increases needed now in defence spending
    Many countries are likely to have to step in and so like Covid the money markets won’t just be using the UK as a punchbag .

    Agreed but that doesn't help the UK government

    It is not so long ago that this happened due to Ukraine war and as then so now the government will be held responsible

    It is ironic that history seems to be repeating itself
    You didn’t though have two parties supporting a war which will cause a big economic impact on the UK. The more I see of the war the more it looks like an absolute disaster. Iran is likely holding back some missiles and drones so that it can do just enough to prolong the war and cause maximum economic pain globally.
    We'll all end up as supporters of the war if the only way to get things back to normal is to defeat the Iranian regime.
    That is going to mean boots on the ground, at least on Kharg Island. That way we can have control over what Iran can export, and to where. Any tankers being attacked, then Iran gets to export no oil and reparations come out of frozen bank accounts of the regime held in the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain etc.

    Probably best if the boots on the ground ar Kharg Island are GCC countries rather than than US. The sooner the US gets stood down from this fight, the safer the world's economy looks.
    Boots on the ground in Tehran and Kharg Island would be my recommendation. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

    Maybe after Little Khameini joins his father with his virgins in the afterlife.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,248
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Price goes up, demand goes down. Supply=demand in equilibrium.
    Demand going down will lead to blackouts, which was my point. There just won't be enough LNG to keep all the lights on for all of the people. Richer countries like the UK might be ok, other countries might not and could be in for months of rolling blackouts. We might be if the government decides that the cost of doing business is too high and doesn't subsidise purchases.

    The government seems completely frozen. By now they should have begun recommissioning coal plants ready for use just in case. I'd rather burn a bit of coal for the next few months than have economy crippling rolling blackouts.
    They could send Farage and Kemi down to pump out the water Thatcher let flood in to them

    One good blow each there would be enough hot air to heat unlimited geyser plumes
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,991

    Trumps going to do a total Pierre P on Nigel

    And then a respected politician of comparative gravity cleans up with the voters.

    Oh.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,248

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Starmer may have the misfortune to be in power when multiple mistakes made by previous administrations start coming home to roost. The state of the Royal Navy is the current one, but you're right that energy is probably the next.
    Yet unbridled glee from right wing posters desperate for the UK to go in to recession.

    Unpatriotic traitors
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,248
    kinabalu said:

    We non drivers with bus passes are unconcerned by the oil crisis.
    *smug*

    Good thing you don't use electricity or gas. Or eat food. Or buys things.

    There's a reason why price shocks like this lead to recessions.
    A recession is perfectly possible. Nobody knows. It depends on the actions of people outside these shores. We have zero control over things.

    I’m livid about it. How are we meant to have a decade of national renewal with Donald Trump constantly blundering around screwing life up for everybody. There's a sovereignty issue here when you think about it. The US has an enormous impact, economy, culture, mood, on us. Who their president is is actually more important to the UK than who sits in Downing St. That's a fact. Yet we have no vote on it. We have no say whatsoever in their elections.

    The term, I believe, is democratic deficit and it’s a whopping big one. Far bigger than the one frequently complained about in the EU. There we had a vote and a veto and (unlike with Trump’s USA) we benefited from most of what was done. Given even that arrangement proved intolerable to us the same in spades must apply to this relationship with America. Special? Yes it’s ‘special’ alright. I don’t know what the answer is – it's a tricky one - but a good start would be to join me in being livid.
    Bomb his golf courses
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,294

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
    If we buy oil and gas abroad, the money goes abroad

    If we use oil and gas produced in the U.K. North Sea, the money goes to the U.K. and is taxed. It also supports a number of jobs in the U.K.

    If we sell North Sea oil on the international market at a high price, the oil companies can then buy the expensive, overseas oil that suits our refineries, with the profits.

    It’s almost as if producing oil and gas during a time of high prices makes money or something.
    Norway is the prime example

    There should be no argument other than generate billions of tax receipts
    And that hasn't stopped Norway investing in renewables. Norway's electricity generation comes from...

    Hydro 90.3%
    Wind 8.5%
    Gas 0.7%
    Biofuels 0.2%
    Misc renewables 0.3%
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,457
    Brixian59 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Price goes up, demand goes down. Supply=demand in equilibrium.
    Demand going down will lead to blackouts, which was my point. There just won't be enough LNG to keep all the lights on for all of the people. Richer countries like the UK might be ok, other countries might not and could be in for months of rolling blackouts. We might be if the government decides that the cost of doing business is too high and doesn't subsidise purchases.

    The government seems completely frozen. By now they should have begun recommissioning coal plants ready for use just in case. I'd rather burn a bit of coal for the next few months than have economy crippling rolling blackouts.
    They could send Farage and Kemi down to pump out the water Thatcher let flood in to them

    One good blow each there would be enough hot air to heat unlimited geyser plumes
    Why don't you try to make a decent argument then just embarrassing yourself
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,152

    Oil and gas will be needed forever. Even once we completely transition to renewable energy, there will still be uses for oil and gas.

    We should as a matter of policy be seeking to be a net exporter, not an importer, of the stuff. It is something we have a practical, competitive advantage in for international trade.

    Instead we "model" the "emissions" of extraction but model zero emissions for extraction abroad and don't tax the emissions abroad, so we are just off-shoring pollution and thus foregoing all the economic advantages and taxes while doing diddly squat to help the environment.

    Ignorant, stupid policy.

    We should be cutting consumption of oil and gas for environmental reasons, where possible, but not production for which we should be net exporters.

    If oil and gas are going to be needed forever, then the rational thing to do is to eke out our remaining finite reserves as carefully as possible so that we still have some left when they are really needed rather than selling them off as fast as possible at the first hint of rising prices.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,994
    True story. In doing up my flat I’ve bought lots of emotionally charged objects to add to my own collection of weird noomy things

    Just last week I bought a “first edition” of Mao’s Little Red Book, cheap red vinyl and all, with actual annotations inside. Maybe made by some young Red Guard in 1966, just before he beat his teacher to death

    Until now not many objects have given me collywobbles. And I’ve got some seriously dark things, now. From slave currency to trench art to genuine bilbos

    But today I got something that totally threw me

    A trilobite. A big one. A really big one. It stares at me with these primitive compound eyes from 500 millions years ago and for some reason it feels intensely evil. Why? Is it just the vertigo of deep time? Making me queasy? Or the fact it could be a monster in a dream?

    Here he is. The mofo


  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,958
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Price goes up, demand goes down. Supply=demand in equilibrium.
    Demand going down will lead to blackouts, which was my point. There just won't be enough LNG to keep all the lights on for all of the people. Richer countries like the UK might be ok, other countries might not and could be in for months of rolling blackouts. We might be if the government decides that the cost of doing business is too high and doesn't subsidise purchases.

    The government seems completely frozen. By now they should have begun recommissioning coal plants ready for use just in case. I'd rather burn a bit of coal for the next few months than have economy crippling rolling blackouts.
    If there weren't blackouts in 2022 when gas prices were 3-6 times current levels I'd be surprised to see them now. As prices go up more marginal demand will go down.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,457

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
    If we buy oil and gas abroad, the money goes abroad

    If we use oil and gas produced in the U.K. North Sea, the money goes to the U.K. and is taxed. It also supports a number of jobs in the U.K.

    If we sell North Sea oil on the international market at a high price, the oil companies can then buy the expensive, overseas oil that suits our refineries, with the profits.

    It’s almost as if producing oil and gas during a time of high prices makes money or something.
    Norway is the prime example

    There should be no argument other than generate billions of tax receipts
    And that hasn't stopped Norway investing in renewables. Norway's electricity generation comes from...

    Hydro 90.3%
    Wind 8.5%
    Gas 0.7%
    Biofuels 0.2%
    Misc renewables 0.3%
    Absolutely I have no problem doing that, but in this crisis our treatment of the North Sea is being shown up as economic vandalism of the worst sort born out of dogma
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,349

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
    Are you really so stupid that you ignore the billions of tax revenue the government would and should receive over the next 20 years

    Explain why Norway good - UK bad
    So this isn't about the energy supply crisis then?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,113

    There's been some interesting moral positioning by elements of the Right. They've always asserted that the ultimate responsibility for the bloodshed caused by the war in Gaza was with Hamas, because they started it. But we now learn that ultimate responsibility for soaring fuel prices caused by the war in Iran is with Ed Miliband.

    He's resposible for a lot that's gone wrong:

    - Setting long-term energy strategy going back to the Blair government
    - Preventing his more talented brother from becoming leader
    - Creating the system that allowed Corbyn to take over
    - Keeping Assad in power
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,630
    edited 1:52PM

    Oil and gas will be needed forever. Even once we completely transition to renewable energy, there will still be uses for oil and gas.

    We should as a matter of policy be seeking to be a net exporter, not an importer, of the stuff. It is something we have a practical, competitive advantage in for international trade.

    Instead we "model" the "emissions" of extraction but model zero emissions for extraction abroad and don't tax the emissions abroad, so we are just off-shoring pollution and thus foregoing all the economic advantages and taxes while doing diddly squat to help the environment.

    Ignorant, stupid policy.

    We should be cutting consumption of oil and gas for environmental reasons, where possible, but not production for which we should be net exporters.

    I agree with this but it doesn't help the argument claiming that we could be net exporter of gas.

    We'd have to increase production by 3x, or reduce consumption by 2/3rds, and as much as government policy (over multiple governments) has harmed production to an extent, it's simply not credible to suggest that's possible in the short-medium term.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,484

    Oil and gas will be needed forever. Even once we completely transition to renewable energy, there will still be uses for oil and gas.

    We should as a matter of policy be seeking to be a net exporter, not an importer, of the stuff. It is something we have a practical, competitive advantage in for international trade.

    Instead we "model" the "emissions" of extraction but model zero emissions for extraction abroad and don't tax the emissions abroad, so we are just off-shoring pollution and thus foregoing all the economic advantages and taxes while doing diddly squat to help the environment.

    Ignorant, stupid policy.

    We should be cutting consumption of oil and gas for environmental reasons, where possible, but not production for which we should be net exporters.

    If oil and gas are going to be needed forever, then the rational thing to do is to eke out our remaining finite reserves as carefully as possible so that we still have some left when they are really needed rather than selling them off as fast as possible at the first hint of rising prices.
    Conserving them as feedstocks for the chemical industry rather than burning them too.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 435

    Fuel crisis here we come:

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2030985225883300274

    The AA and RAC are advising drivers to conserve fuel and cut back on non-essential journeys amid fears soaring oil prices will increase petrol costs

    Fuel crisis here we come:

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2030985225883300274

    The AA and RAC are advising drivers to conserve fuel and cut back on non-essential journeys amid fears soaring oil prices will increase petrol costs

    Why don't they just say "don't panic Mr Mainwaring, don't panic!”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,484
    I see Farage's big date with Trump was a bit of a "pick me" moment:


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,329

    There's been some interesting moral positioning by elements of the Right. They've always asserted that the ultimate responsibility for the bloodshed caused by the war in Gaza was with Hamas, because they started it. But we now learn that ultimate responsibility for soaring fuel prices caused by the war in Iran is with Ed Miliband.

    Yes if it wasn't for him we could be cleaning up here apparently.

    And I'll tell you another oddity.

    On carbon emissions there's no point us doing much because our contribution doesn't make any difference to the overall outcome. We're just a pin prick.

    But with bombing Iran although us joining in would make no difference to the outcome that is irrelevant and we need to stop being such pussies and get in there!
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,152
    edited 1:56PM
    Foxy said:

    Oil and gas will be needed forever. Even once we completely transition to renewable energy, there will still be uses for oil and gas.

    We should as a matter of policy be seeking to be a net exporter, not an importer, of the stuff. It is something we have a practical, competitive advantage in for international trade.

    Instead we "model" the "emissions" of extraction but model zero emissions for extraction abroad and don't tax the emissions abroad, so we are just off-shoring pollution and thus foregoing all the economic advantages and taxes while doing diddly squat to help the environment.

    Ignorant, stupid policy.

    We should be cutting consumption of oil and gas for environmental reasons, where possible, but not production for which we should be net exporters.

    If oil and gas are going to be needed forever, then the rational thing to do is to eke out our remaining finite reserves as carefully as possible so that we still have some left when they are really needed rather than selling them off as fast as possible at the first hint of rising prices.
    Conserving them as feedstocks for the chemical industry rather than burning them too.
    Exactly. Our grandchildren may well end up cursing our stupidity for burning so much of our fossil fuel reserves, not only for its effect on the climate but also because of the precious little left remaining for really essential purposes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,994
    edited 1:59PM

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
    Your interpretation of it is technically and factually bollocks.
    It's entirely clear, as is the story below, which doesn't adopt the right wing media habit of burying the essential details in the last paragraph.

    "libsofticktock". Please.
    Really? All “libsoftiktok” has done is pulled headlines from newspapers that are deliberately distorting the incident.
    Is that all libsoftiktok has done? Let's check their Wikipedia page:

    Libs of TikTok is the username of various American anti-LGBTQ[b] and far-right[a] social-media accounts operated by Chaya Raichik (/ˈxɑːjə ˈraɪtʃɪk/ KHAH-yə RY-chik),[10] [...]

    Raichik's posts have resulted in threats, harassment, and doxing perpetuated by her followers against teachers, medical providers, children's hospitals, libraries, LGBTQ venues, and educational facilities.[22][23][24] At least 60 bomb threats have been linked to Libs of TikTok posts.[24][25][26]

    [...]

    On November 20, 2022, Libs of TikTok received renewed media attention following the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting,[116][22][117] a mass killing that took place at an LGBTQ venue in which five people were killed and dozens more were injured. Club Q, the venue targeted by the shooter, frequently hosts drag events, including those advertised to an all-ages audience. The Independent noted that Libs of TikTok often attracts negative attention to such events with her social media accounts and that harassment and threats are often sent by her followers against patrons and performers following her postings.[22] Hours after the shooting, Raichik used her Twitter account to target a "drag organization" in the same state where the massacre took place, underlining the names of two Colorado state legislators, one of whom was trans, for supporting it.[116][118][119] The Advocate criticized the post, saying that: "In the hours after news of the Club Q shooting spread, Raichik, for example, doubled down on her anti-LGBTQ+ messaging by posting about other drag-inclusive events in the state."[120] They drew attention to an interview previously published on their website with Juliette Kayyem, a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security, in which she stated that social media accounts such as Libs of TikTok practice stochastic terrorism by provoking extremist outrage against marginalized groups, but using "vague language that allows the agitator to deny responsibility for the act".[120]
    Yes, because "Wikipedia" is so famously accurate and unbiased? That's presumably why one of its co-creators has abandoned it, and admits it has been destroyed by leftist editors

    "Nobody should trust Wikipedia, says man who invented Wikipedia"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/wikipedia-founder-larry-sanger-democrats-b1885138.html
  • eekeek Posts: 32,803

    Brixian59 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've heard suggestions that there simply won't be enough LNG in the world to meet global needs without Qatar if warmer weather doesn't arrive in Europe and North America within the next couple of weeks. There will be blackouts as countries are simply unable to get enough supply for energy generation.

    I think we may need to turn the coal power back on, the government needs to start contingency planning to have coal energy back online within weeks, even if the war ends and shipments restart by the end of March there is going to be a shortages everywhere for months.

    Price goes up, demand goes down. Supply=demand in equilibrium.
    Demand going down will lead to blackouts, which was my point. There just won't be enough LNG to keep all the lights on for all of the people. Richer countries like the UK might be ok, other countries might not and could be in for months of rolling blackouts. We might be if the government decides that the cost of doing business is too high and doesn't subsidise purchases.

    The government seems completely frozen. By now they should have begun recommissioning coal plants ready for use just in case. I'd rather burn a bit of coal for the next few months than have economy crippling rolling blackouts.
    They could send Farage and Kemi down to pump out the water Thatcher let flood in to them

    One good blow each there would be enough hot air to heat unlimited geyser plumes
    Why don't you try to make a decent argument then just embarrassing yourself
    All he’s done is pointed out we don’t mine for coal anymore.

    What I suspect is happening is the Government is going through the playbooks as written and going - that works, oops that hasn’t played out as expected, opens next playbook and discovers similar issues.

    Reality is with no gas coming from the Middle East we have problems which can’t be quickly fixed and have been created by decisions some of which were made 30+ years ago
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445
    Foxy said:

    I see Farage's big date with Trump was a bit of a "pick me" moment:


    So Trump getting a kicking form the voters for being tied to a Trump who can't be arsed to see him?

    Poetic justice.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,183
    Eabhal said:

    Miliband is a Cnut.

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2030905119273816421

    Ministers are discussing the possibility of intervening to protect the public against soaring household energy bills if the Middle East conflict drags on.

    The energy secretary, Ed Miliband, is understood to believe that prices cannot be allowed to rise substantially.

    Not sure why people who have shifted to EVs, cycling, solar, public transport, heat pumps should be bailing out those who haven't.
    Same reason those many pay more in taxes than they receive back in benefits, schooling, healthcare. We are a society and spread the load. Not everyone can afford to buy an EV, or install heat pumps, or can cycle to work.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,183
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
    If you think there will be no market for oil in 5 years I have a bridge to sell you.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,101



    There isn't necessarily always going to be a cold, dark, still week in January that we are never able to cover with renewables. Tidal and geothermal continue regardless of the weather. Hydroelectric is less connected to the weather and pumped-storage hydroelectricity is unaffected by the weather. More efficient solar and more solar means you make the most of whatever the weather conditions are. Better interconnectivity means you can rely on somewhere where it's windier and brighter.

    If you are going to burn carbon, it can be domestically produced biofuels, biogas and waste-to-energy.

    So, should we be spending money on a big investment in methane storage capacity, or could we spend it better on nuclear, wave, geothermal, biofuels, solar...?

    I was curious what the current figures are for UK gas imports. 2024 figures are...

    Norway 50.2%
    Domestic (North Sea) 33.8%
    US 11%
    Qatar 1.2%
    Trinidad and Tobago 1.1%
    others less than 1% each

    And then I thought, what would Trump do? Presumably invade Trinidad and Tobago. How quickly can we get an aircraft carrier to the Caribbean?

    As I said earlier, remember Norway already proposed cutting the supply of gas to the UK last year.

    And a few other points:

    Current hydro capacity is about 1 percent of demand.
    Pumped Storage is not generation. It is simply a liquid battery.
    Tidal and geothermal are almost non existent in the UK and successive governments have refused to invest in them, which is criminal to my mind.
    Interconnectvity can only provide about 9GW of power total. Peak demand in the UK is around 60GW.

    All of these things are important and on a decades level, if we get a government with any sense (no laughing at the back please), then tidal, geothermal and nuclear could be a huge leap forward for us. But that is a very very long way away. Even further with the sorts of governments we seem to get these days.
    It's worth a mention that the UK's first geothermal power plant has just been turned on:

    Earth's heat to power 10,000 homes in renewable energy first for UK

    It's not much and it's been a long time coming, but it's a start.
    Its brilliant and we should be doing far more like this. There have been geothermal projects running in the Hampshre Basin for decades but they have never been commercialised/adopted because the Government isn't interested in them.

    The average temperature gradient for the North Sea is 25 degrees C per 1000m. This is even higher in some places onshore. The scope for geothermal is huge even though we don't have the vulcanism like Iceland.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,329
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
    Your interpretation of it is technically and factually bollocks.
    It's entirely clear, as is the story below, which doesn't adopt the right wing media habit of burying the essential details in the last paragraph.

    "libsofticktock". Please.
    Really? All “libsoftiktok” has done is pulled headlines from newspapers that are deliberately distorting the incident.
    Is that all libsoftiktok has done? Let's check their Wikipedia page:

    Libs of TikTok is the username of various American anti-LGBTQ[b] and far-right[a] social-media accounts operated by Chaya Raichik (/ˈxɑːjə ˈraɪtʃɪk/ KHAH-yə RY-chik),[10] [...]

    Raichik's posts have resulted in threats, harassment, and doxing perpetuated by her followers against teachers, medical providers, children's hospitals, libraries, LGBTQ venues, and educational facilities.[22][23][24] At least 60 bomb threats have been linked to Libs of TikTok posts.[24][25][26]

    [...]

    On November 20, 2022, Libs of TikTok received renewed media attention following the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting,[116][22][117] a mass killing that took place at an LGBTQ venue in which five people were killed and dozens more were injured. Club Q, the venue targeted by the shooter, frequently hosts drag events, including those advertised to an all-ages audience. The Independent noted that Libs of TikTok often attracts negative attention to such events with her social media accounts and that harassment and threats are often sent by her followers against patrons and performers following her postings.[22] Hours after the shooting, Raichik used her Twitter account to target a "drag organization" in the same state where the massacre took place, underlining the names of two Colorado state legislators, one of whom was trans, for supporting it.[116][118][119] The Advocate criticized the post, saying that: "In the hours after news of the Club Q shooting spread, Raichik, for example, doubled down on her anti-LGBTQ+ messaging by posting about other drag-inclusive events in the state."[120] They drew attention to an interview previously published on their website with Juliette Kayyem, a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security, in which she stated that social media accounts such as Libs of TikTok practice stochastic terrorism by provoking extremist outrage against marginalized groups, but using "vague language that allows the agitator to deny responsibility for the act".[120]
    Yes, because "Wikipedia" is so famously accurate and unbiased? That's presumably why one of its co-creators has abandoned it, and admits it has been destroyred by leftist editors

    "Nobody should trust Wikipedia, says man who invented Wikipedia"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/wikipedia-founder-larry-sanger-democrats-b1885138.html
    It's more accurate and unbiased than most sources you link to.

    I mean, if we're going to have a rule whereby only sources more trustworthy than Wikipedia can be referenced on here it's you and ilk who would be most inconvenienced.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,630
    edited 2:04PM

    Eabhal said:

    Miliband is a Cnut.

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2030905119273816421

    Ministers are discussing the possibility of intervening to protect the public against soaring household energy bills if the Middle East conflict drags on.

    The energy secretary, Ed Miliband, is understood to believe that prices cannot be allowed to rise substantially.

    Not sure why people who have shifted to EVs, cycling, solar, public transport, heat pumps should be bailing out those who haven't.
    Same reason those many pay more in taxes than they receive back in benefits, schooling, healthcare. We are a society and spread the load. Not everyone can afford to buy an EV, or install heat pumps, or can cycle to work.
    I know, I know. But there isn't much of an incentive to do these things while fossil fuel consumers are bailed out every time there is a crisis.

    We spent £40 billion on reducing energy bills in 2022. That's a lot of solar panels/EV chargers.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,532
    Brains Trust: Does anyone have advice for a good outside microphone for use with mobile phone clips?

    I'm having a DJI Mic Mini, or Mic 2 or Mic 3 suggested.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,294
    Foxy said:

    I see Farage's big date with Trump was a bit of a "pick me" moment:


    Ouch.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,248

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Inspiring stuff.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/2030952994733179302

    Keir Starmer warns that the longer the Iran conflict goes on, the greater the impact on the domestic economy.

    "You will sense I think, that the longer this goes on, the more likely the potential for an impact on our economy, impact into the lives and households of everybody and every business.

    “And our job is to get ahead of that, to look around the corner, assess the risk, monitor the risks, and work with others in relation to that.”

    File under "PM Insights: No Shit, Sherlock..."

    "Get ahead of that". Try firing Ed Miliband. Oh you can't, because then he'd be working to unseat you as PM.
    Why would he fire Ed Miliband whose renewables vision will save the UK whilst Kemi and Farage lick Trumps oily ass
    Ed is ridiculously blinkered.
    It's the oil and gas dinosaurs who are blinkered.

    Yep let's start drilling... Wait 5 years and sell it where?

    International market

    Oh hang on.
    If you think there will be no market for oil in 5 years I have a bridge to sell you.
    You completely missed the point.

    Drill baby Drill

    But you've still got to pay

    INTERNATIONAL market prices.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445
    Nigelb said:

    US possibly pulling air defence out of S Korea to send to the Gulf.

    Korea, US kick off major spring drills amid speculation over Patriot redeployment
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/southkorea/defense/20260309/s-korea-us-kick-off-major-spring-drills-amid-speculation-over-patriot-redeployment
    ..The exercise comes amid rising indications that Patriot missile systems operated by USFK have been redeployed to the Middle East, as demand for interceptor missiles and air defense systems grows following the Feb. 28 U.S.-Israeli strikes on Iran.

    Several U.S. military transport aircraft have been seen arriving at and departing from a U.S. air base in Pyeongtaek, just south of Seoul, in recent days, fueling speculation that USFK may be preparing to move missile defense systems to other regions.

    USFK has not confirmed the deployment, citing operational security..

    Just the sign the North Koreans need...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,994
    Dubai Latest

    "Moved to Dubai a month ago…

    "Then two drones exploded next to our building, I was listed #3 on the UAE public prosecutor’s list for “publishing illegal content” (the video of the Fairmont on fire that got 1.7m views) resulting in my X account being banned across the country, followed by another week of hiding in the basement due to constant barrages of missiles and drones.

    "Then a couple days ago after Marina 23 and the airport got hit I decided we’ve pushed our luck far enough.

    "Made our way over the border into Oman the night before last and flew out this morning.

    "Good luck to everyone in the GCC. But if you have the means to get out – I suggest you do so. Don’t FAFO."

    https://x.com/ElonTrades/status/2030929933682262280?s=20
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,991
    Foxy said:

    Oil and gas will be needed forever. Even once we completely transition to renewable energy, there will still be uses for oil and gas.

    We should as a matter of policy be seeking to be a net exporter, not an importer, of the stuff. It is something we have a practical, competitive advantage in for international trade.

    Instead we "model" the "emissions" of extraction but model zero emissions for extraction abroad and don't tax the emissions abroad, so we are just off-shoring pollution and thus foregoing all the economic advantages and taxes while doing diddly squat to help the environment.

    Ignorant, stupid policy.

    We should be cutting consumption of oil and gas for environmental reasons, where possible, but not production for which we should be net exporters.

    If oil and gas are going to be needed forever, then the rational thing to do is to eke out our remaining finite reserves as carefully as possible so that we still have some left when they are really needed rather than selling them off as fast as possible at the first hint of rising prices.
    Conserving them as feedstocks for the chemical industry rather than burning them too.
    Cough.
    I can think of another reason to conserve them for possible future contingencies.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,101
    edited 2:10PM
    Foxy said:

    Oil and gas will be needed forever. Even once we completely transition to renewable energy, there will still be uses for oil and gas.

    We should as a matter of policy be seeking to be a net exporter, not an importer, of the stuff. It is something we have a practical, competitive advantage in for international trade.

    Instead we "model" the "emissions" of extraction but model zero emissions for extraction abroad and don't tax the emissions abroad, so we are just off-shoring pollution and thus foregoing all the economic advantages and taxes while doing diddly squat to help the environment.

    Ignorant, stupid policy.

    We should be cutting consumption of oil and gas for environmental reasons, where possible, but not production for which we should be net exporters.

    If oil and gas are going to be needed forever, then the rational thing to do is to eke out our remaining finite reserves as carefully as possible so that we still have some left when they are really needed rather than selling them off as fast as possible at the first hint of rising prices.
    Conserving them as feedstocks for the chemical industry rather than burning them too.
    Something a lot of geologists in the business have been saying for the last 40 years or more. In spite of my well known scorn about the AGW stuff I still don't think we should be burning hydrocarbons. But by the same token we shouldn't be shutting down the North Sea and relying on external sources. Once we have closed own the North Sea it won't be coming back. It simply won't be economic to start again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,994
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Has anyone used the governments new petrol price finder website? Perhaps it also has a code for "no fuel available..."



    Some sites have new functionality...
    Is this going to be like that incident from a few years ago, when a couple of stations in a specific area ran out of petrol, but Radio 5 Live could talk about nothing else for six hours, treating it as a national emergency and setting off panic buying among all the road warriors who spend their days listening to the radio.
    Why should journalists learn from mistakes?
    The US are doing a great job today of proving “No matter how much you hate the media, it’s never enough”

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2030738086116642999

    What actually happened is there was a demonstration outside Mamdani’s official residence, led by a guy who’s best described as an American Tommy Robinson.

    Two jihadis threw bombs into the crowd of demonstrators, which the NYPD have confirmed were viable explosive devices. They were arrested at the scene.

    If you only read the headlines, you’d be pretty sure that the people with the bombs were the people protesting Mamdani. The Mayor’s statement also deliberately confuses the situation.
    The American Tommy Robinson is described by Sky News thus:

    “Mr Lang was previously charged with assaulting an officer with a baseball bat, civil disorder and other crimes before being pardoned as part of President Donald Trump's sweeping act of clemency for defendants connected to the January 6 riots in Washington DC.”

    I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that we don’t pardon Tommy Robinson.
    The problem isn’t that this guy was a moron, he’s clearly a moron, it’s that the media are being very careful to avoid saying that the bombs were from those opposing him.
    No, I think part of the problem is that this guy is a violent nutcase. And part of the problem is that there are some other violent nutcases who chucked a bomb at the first violent nutcase.

    The media taking a bit of time to work out what happened and meanwhile just regurgitating bland police reports… not a huge problem, no.
    Oh dear.

    So the headline is “bomb… far-right protest…. Mamdani residence…”

    The actuality is that far-left Islamists, supporters of the mayor, threw bombs at the right-wing protestors.
    No, the headline in the UK's leading liberal newspaper is:
    "Explosive device thrown outside of Zohran Mamdani’s residence at anti-Islam protest"

    Which is what happened.
    Not 'by' or 'during'. At.
    Which any regular human would think to mean that the anti-Islam protestors threw a bomb at the residence.

    What actually happened is that the protesters were the *victims* of a couple of pro-Mamdani jihadis.

    The headline is technically accurate but factually bollocks.
    Your interpretation of it is technically and factually bollocks.
    It's entirely clear, as is the story below, which doesn't adopt the right wing media habit of burying the essential details in the last paragraph.

    "libsofticktock". Please.
    Really? All “libsoftiktok” has done is pulled headlines from newspapers that are deliberately distorting the incident.
    Is that all libsoftiktok has done? Let's check their Wikipedia page:

    Libs of TikTok is the username of various American anti-LGBTQ[b] and far-right[a] social-media accounts operated by Chaya Raichik (/ˈxɑːjə ˈraɪtʃɪk/ KHAH-yə RY-chik),[10] [...]

    Raichik's posts have resulted in threats, harassment, and doxing perpetuated by her followers against teachers, medical providers, children's hospitals, libraries, LGBTQ venues, and educational facilities.[22][23][24] At least 60 bomb threats have been linked to Libs of TikTok posts.[24][25][26]

    [...]

    On November 20, 2022, Libs of TikTok received renewed media attention following the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting,[116][22][117] a mass killing that took place at an LGBTQ venue in which five people were killed and dozens more were injured. Club Q, the venue targeted by the shooter, frequently hosts drag events, including those advertised to an all-ages audience. The Independent noted that Libs of TikTok often attracts negative attention to such events with her social media accounts and that harassment and threats are often sent by her followers against patrons and performers following her postings.[22] Hours after the shooting, Raichik used her Twitter account to target a "drag organization" in the same state where the massacre took place, underlining the names of two Colorado state legislators, one of whom was trans, for supporting it.[116][118][119] The Advocate criticized the post, saying that: "In the hours after news of the Club Q shooting spread, Raichik, for example, doubled down on her anti-LGBTQ+ messaging by posting about other drag-inclusive events in the state."[120] They drew attention to an interview previously published on their website with Juliette Kayyem, a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security, in which she stated that social media accounts such as Libs of TikTok practice stochastic terrorism by provoking extremist outrage against marginalized groups, but using "vague language that allows the agitator to deny responsibility for the act".[120]
    Yes, because "Wikipedia" is so famously accurate and unbiased? That's presumably why one of its co-creators has abandoned it, and admits it has been destroyred by leftist editors

    "Nobody should trust Wikipedia, says man who invented Wikipedia"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/wikipedia-founder-larry-sanger-democrats-b1885138.html
    It's more accurate and unbiased than most sources you link to.

    I mean, if we're going to have a rule whereby only sources more trustworthy than Wikipedia can be referenced on here it's you and ilk who would be most inconvenienced.
    Do you ever say interesting things? You should try it
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,445
    edited 2:07PM
    Leon said:

    Dubai Latest

    "Moved to Dubai a month ago…

    "Then two drones exploded next to our building, I was listed #3 on the UAE public prosecutor’s list for “publishing illegal content” (the video of the Fairmont on fire that got 1.7m views) resulting in my X account being banned across the country, followed by another week of hiding in the basement due to constant barrages of missiles and drones.

    "Then a couple days ago after Marina 23 and the airport got hit I decided we’ve pushed our luck far enough.

    "Made our way over the border into Oman the night before last and flew out this morning.

    "Good luck to everyone in the GCC. But if you have the means to get out – I suggest you do so. Don’t FAFO."

    https://x.com/ElonTrades/status/2030929933682262280?s=20

    I'm reminded of Brendan Behan being told that every hangover killed ten million brain cells.

    "Yeah, but only the weak ones..."
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