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Punters continue have more faith in Zack Polanski than Kemi Badenoch – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,973
edited 3:22PM in General
Punters continue have more faith in Zack Polanski than Kemi Badenoch – politicalbetting.com

The Greens are now shorter in the betting than the Conservatives to win the most seats at the next GE.Following last night's by-election, here's how we bet:Reform UK – 7/4Labour – 2/1Greens – 11/2Conservatives – 6/1Restore Britain – 16/1Lib Dems – 33/1Your Party – 200/1

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Comments

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,708
    First?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,547
    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,262
    edited 3:28PM
    Third like Labour, and the class of politician that Keir Starmer is.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,078
    Clearly the trading bet is on the LibDems!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.

    Just curious. Have you, ah, "converted" to the Green Party yet?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,547
    edited 3:39PM

    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.

    Just curious. Have you, ah, "converted" to the Green Party yet?
    No, I’m a fiscal Conservative, I’m not voting for these economic illiterates.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,079
    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,816

    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.

    Just curious. Have you, ah, "converted" to the Green Party yet?
    No, I’m a fiscal Conservative, I’m not voting for these economic illiterates.
    Fiscal conservatives should prefer being in the green to being in the red.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,810
    FPT
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    This was on the Times News yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2t5r7xeUo

    The helicopter they are working on (amongst others) is the Proteus helicopter: a full-on drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsghRo7yfDE

    And they are going to f*** it up because Starmer is an idiot.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,708
    edited 3:46PM
    The 'most seats' market feels an odd one; like a race where for every candidate the great majority of people want it to lose. It's a market, like a maths problem, where the working out of your solution is more informative than whether the answer is right.

    A related interesting question is what in practice is the lowest thinkable (mathematically I suppose the answer is two) number for 'most seats'. At a guess it isn't much more than 125. (Whether the LDs are in fact in play rather depends on your answer. I think they are not.)

    Of the parties listed for 'most seats' IMHO the bottom 3 can be united below the label 'impossible', and the Greens as 'highly unlikely'. If there is value I think it's with the Tories, but the route from here to July 2029 ending with Tories 'most seats' while thinkable is littered with obstacles. Essentially the case for it is that in the end 'most seats' will go to centre right or centre left, and while the Tories have yet to make up their mind about it, they will probably decide that the currently unoccupied territory of 'centre right' is theirs for the taking. I think I want better than 6/1.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,355
    One thing the Tories should be looking at is filling the gap in the centre as Labour try and head off further left to contain leakage to the Greens and with Reform already occupying the centre ground. The LDs are just seen as the party of upper middle class anti Brexit Nimbys by most voters too
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,089

    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.

    Form is temporary, class is permanent.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,985
    edited 3:50PM
    In honour of the Greens' victory, I'm going to cook lentils and chicken.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,435
    edited 3:50PM
    Do most of the people who voted Green in Gorton & Denton support their policy to legalise all drugs?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,364

    In honour of the Greens' victory, I'm going to cook lentils and chicken.

    Surely eating Watermelon would be the most appropriate food choice?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,956

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,567

    In honour of the Greens' victory, I'm going to cook lentils and chicken.

    It had better be halal chicken.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,708

    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.

    Just curious. Have you, ah, "converted" to the Green Party yet?
    No, I’m a fiscal Conservative, I’m not voting for these economic illiterates.
    The particular peak the Greens are at in this moment is peak mixture of popularity because they are not some other party, peak popularity due to the infinity of free money on offer, ditto simplistic policies, and peak non-intensive examination of their version of MMT.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380
    Andy_JS said:

    Do most of the people who voted Green in Gorton & Denton support their policy to legalise all drugs?

    The policy is to decriminalise and to treat as a medical issue, pretty much as what Portugal has done, not legalise.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.

    Just curious. Have you, ah, "converted" to the Green Party yet?
    No, I’m a fiscal Conservative, I’m not voting for these economic illiterates.
    Ah, of course! Just in the previous thread header you seemed quite enthusiastic about them...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,172

    In honour of the Greens' victory, I'm going to cook lentils and chicken.

    Quite sandalous...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    In honour of the Greens' victory, I'm going to cook lentils and chicken.

    It had better be halal chicken.
    Halal backwards is la-lah...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,172

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    Give Ukraine a couple of years!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,444
    algarkirk said:

    The 'most seats' market feels an odd one; like a race where for every candidate the great majority of people want it to lose. It's a market, like a maths problem, where the working out of your solution is more informative than whether the answer is right.

    A related interesting question is what in practice is the lowest thinkable (mathematically I suppose the answer is two) number for 'most seats'. At a guess it isn't much more than 125. (Whether the LDs are in fact in play rather depends on your answer. I think they are not.)

    Of the parties listed for 'most seats' IMHO the bottom 3 can be united below the label 'impossible', and the Greens as 'highly unlikely'. If there is value I think it's with the Tories, but the route from here to July 2029 ending with Tories 'most seats' while thinkable is littered with obstacles. Essentially the case for it is that in the end 'most seats' will go to centre right or centre left, and while the Tories have yet to make up their mind about it, they will probably decide that the currently unoccupied territory of 'centre right' is theirs for the taking. I think I want better than 6/1.

    “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” - Sherlock Homes”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380
    algarkirk said:

    The 'most seats' market feels an odd one; like a race where for every candidate the great majority of people want it to lose. It's a market, like a maths problem, where the working out of your solution is more informative than whether the answer is right.

    A related interesting question is what in practice is the lowest thinkable (mathematically I suppose the answer is two) number for 'most seats'. At a guess it isn't much more than 125. (Whether the LDs are in fact in play rather depends on your answer. I think they are not.)

    Of the parties listed for 'most seats' IMHO the bottom 3 can be united below the label 'impossible', and the Greens as 'highly unlikely'. If there is value I think it's with the Tories, but the route from here to July 2029 ending with Tories 'most seats' while thinkable is littered with obstacles. Essentially the case for it is that in the end 'most seats' will go to centre right or centre left, and while the Tories have yet to make up their mind about it, they will probably decide that the currently unoccupied territory of 'centre right' is theirs for the taking. I think I want better than 6/1.

    The problem is that someone has to win most seats, no matter how unlikely and unlikeable the party is. It is possible to see for Reform, but hard to see how anyone else can manage it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,567
    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,547

    This is so sad to see with Jos Buttler, he is England's greatest ever white ball batter.

    Just curious. Have you, ah, "converted" to the Green Party yet?
    No, I’m a fiscal Conservative, I’m not voting for these economic illiterates.
    Ah, of course! Just in the previous thread header you seemed quite enthusiastic about them...
    Only because I won a decent amount of money on them winning the by-election.

    I also enjoyed the fact that Matt Goodwin lost.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,364

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    Unless Brixian59 flies RAF Atlas planes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    1983/1987 redux?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,632
    HYUFD said:

    One thing the Tories should be looking at is filling the gap in the centre as Labour try and head off further left to contain leakage to the Greens and with Reform already occupying the centre ground. The LDs are just seen as the party of upper middle class anti Brexit Nimbys by most voters too

    One of Starmer Labour's manifold problems is they are continuity Sunak Conservatives. I can't find the pages for beating up on old ladies WFA and the disabled and their welfare benefits in either Das Kapital or the Communist Manifesto.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,567

    https://x.com/zackpolanski/status/2027401329920848311

    Dear Lucy Powell,

    I have enjoyed our exchange of letters about which of our parties is best placed to stop Reform.

    Hannah Spencer MP and I trust that you agree that this question has now been resolved once and for all.

    Thanks,
    Zack Polanski

    When the combined Green + Labour vote is more than double the Reform vote, it is academic.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,057

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    "He will make an excellent drone!"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,632

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    I am not entirely sure Labour would be the majority coalition partner in this scenario.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380
    So who had the most effective GOTV in G and D?

    It does seem all that dope-smoking and tantric sex didn't hold them back at all.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,283
    edited 4:08PM
    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can see only one winner

  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,593
    viewcode said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    This was on the Times News yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2t5r7xeUo

    The helicopter they are working on (amongst others) is the Proteus helicopter: a full-on drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsghRo7yfDE

    And they are going to f*** it up because Starmer is an idiot.
    The Beeb think it's going ahead

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75e14k64dvo
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,816
    Zac Goldsmith compares the Green Party to an insect that has been taken over by a parasite.

    https://x.com/zacgoldsmith/status/2027405001967177741
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 506
    Andy_JS said:

    Do most of the people who voted Green in Gorton & Denton support their policy to legalise all drugs?

    question made to feed AI idiots?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    I am not entirely sure Labour would be the majority coalition partner in this scenario.
    I think it very possible that Labour and Tories will have about 100 seats between them. The odds above have a very strong Normalcy Bias.

    Reform is the only plausible candidate for most seats and at 2.94 on Betfair is good value.

    5.6 for Refom majority less so.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,452

    Zac Goldsmith compares the Green Party to an insect that has been taken over by a parasite.

    https://x.com/zacgoldsmith/status/2027405001967177741

    Similar to Brixian here.

    Are the main parties waking up to the threat of the greens.

    They’re not friends.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,684
    edited 4:15PM
    tpfkar said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    This was on the Times News yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2t5r7xeUo

    The helicopter they are working on (amongst others) is the Proteus helicopter: a full-on drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsghRo7yfDE

    And they are going to f*** it up because Starmer is an idiot.
    The Beeb think it's going ahead

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75e14k64dvo
    Seems official.

    I was right to be a bit wary of the Telegraph story; according to the Beeb, the Telegraph has it 100% the wrong way round.
    So order approved by Reeves, overruling the MoD.

    If confirmed, that's the last time I repost anything from the Telegraph.
    It used to be a genuine newspaper.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,749
    edited 4:16PM
    tpfkar said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    This was on the Times News yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2t5r7xeUo

    The helicopter they are working on (amongst others) is the Proteus helicopter: a full-on drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsghRo7yfDE

    And they are going to f*** it up because Starmer is an idiot.
    The Beeb think it's going ahead

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75e14k64dvo
    Given their love of a u-turn, is it more likely to happen if they go ahead or if its cancelled......
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,632
    Roger said:

    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can only see one winner

    I saw her on Iain Dale on the LBC YouTube channel. She was smirking and looking extremely smug about her "people on the doorstep are telling me Labour is the party of Paedo enablers". David Amess' daughter and Natalie Fleet (who was groomed and raped as a child) condemned this and she basically told them to stfu as Labour started it on Sunak's watch (true- they did) and she didn't intend to stop.

    Maybe she is onto a winner.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,600
    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    TBF, in most seats where Reform seriously threaten Labour, the Greens do not feature. Labour already has the left-leaning vote in the Red Wall.

    What I expect is a lot of sorting. The Greens do well in student ghettos, and places with lots of poorly paid graduates. The Lib Dem’s do well in posh Britain.

    Labour and Reform fight it out in the Red Wall, and the M1 and M6 corridors. Reform sweep East Anglia and the Thames Estuary. The Tory vote holds up well in posh London, and rural strongholds.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 896
    Nigelb said:

    tpfkar said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    This was on the Times News yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2t5r7xeUo

    The helicopter they are working on (amongst others) is the Proteus helicopter: a full-on drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsghRo7yfDE

    And they are going to f*** it up because Starmer is an idiot.
    The Beeb think it's going ahead

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75e14k64dvo
    Seems official.

    I was right to be a bit wary of the Telegraph story; according to the Beeb, the Telegraph has it 100% the wrong way round.
    So order approved by Reeves, overruling the MoD.

    If confirmed, that's the last time I repost anything from the Telegraph.
    It used to be a genuine newspaper.
    Telegraph now is as bad as the Mail and Express.

    The Times is rarely wrong.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,079

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    Give Ukraine a couple of years!
    A drone big enough to lift tons.... is a helicopter without a pilot.

    Unmanned helicopters are in testing now - https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/s-70uas-u-hawk-fully-autonomous-helicopter.html

    In the UK https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news/2026/january/16/20260116-new-royal-navy-autonomous-helicopter-makes-history-with-first-flight

    Guess where it is made. Go on. Guess.

    Yup

    "Designed and manufactured at the home of British helicopters in Yeovil, the Proteus Technology Demonstrator is being developed by Leonardo..."

  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 506
    While the faith in Kemi can grow Starmer is already failing to adapt to a new landscape.

    I wonder how well a small c - green arrangement would work?

    I’ve been a member of the Conservative Environment Network since its inception and they have people that we would work with. They are definitely better than Labour on a lot of issues.

    Interesting times
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,057
    Sean_F said:

    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    TBF, in most seats where Reform seriously threaten Labour, the Greens do not feature. Labour already has the left-leaning vote in the Red Wall.

    What I expect is a lot of sorting. The Greens do well in student ghettos, and places with lots of poorly paid graduates. The Lib Dem’s do well in posh Britain.

    Labour and Reform fight it out in the Red Wall, and the M1 and M6 corridors. Reform sweep East Anglia and the Thames Estuary. The Tory vote holds up well in posh London, and rural strongholds.
    I had to laugh at your characterisation of “ student ghettos” !
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,290

    While the faith in Kemi can grow Starmer is already failing to adapt to a new landscape.

    I wonder how well a small c - green arrangement would work?

    I’ve been a member of the Conservative Environment Network since its inception and they have people that we would work with. They are definitely better than Labour on a lot of issues.

    Interesting times

    That would make me vote Reform. If the Tories get into bed with the new islamist party then they're finished for good.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,079
    nico67 said:

    Sean_F said:

    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    TBF, in most seats where Reform seriously threaten Labour, the Greens do not feature. Labour already has the left-leaning vote in the Red Wall.

    What I expect is a lot of sorting. The Greens do well in student ghettos, and places with lots of poorly paid graduates. The Lib Dem’s do well in posh Britain.

    Labour and Reform fight it out in the Red Wall, and the M1 and M6 corridors. Reform sweep East Anglia and the Thames Estuary. The Tory vote holds up well in posh London, and rural strongholds.
    I had to laugh at your characterisation of “ student ghettos” !
    The Tooting Popular Front will be based in one of the "student ghettos". Think Banlieue 13.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,684

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,079
    edited 4:27PM
    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 896
    I think that last night's result means that the chances of Wes Streeting nd Shabana Mahmood ever becoming Labour Leader are gone, Streeting may have time if he can remain an MP. Mahmood is doing an excellent job but Labour pragmatically need a 20 to 30 degree left turn

    A ticket of Rayner, Miliband and Thornberry would provide that direction.

    The likes of Cooper, Streeting and Mahmood can stay in roles with Healy, Mcfadden, Phillipson etc

    Jones is a Chancellor in waiting, would be more politically savvy than Reeves as Chancellor. Rachel's ability to convince the markets can't be overstated, it's just her lack of political awareness, if the economy continues to improve she may deserve an extention under the control of Rayner.

    Those who don't know her knock her, do not underestimate Ange, she is politically astute, a street fighter, very fast on her feet, just ask any Tory equivalent she has minced, she's not perfect, who is.

    She'd hammer Badenoch’s arrogance, banter with Cleverly, deal with Ed and mince Farage, her clashes with Flynn, who is an excellent parliamentary performer would be box office.

    Those who say she could not handle the international stage only have to look at Meloni to see how someone from the wider regions of politics with a degree of straight talking and charm can succeed.

    She would have Union support, appeal to Greens and has been very loyal to Starmer unlike some.

    Her time is coming
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,684

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
    Not necessarily. There's likely to be a large niche for electric powered, with a large amount of that power provided by on onboard turbine/generator.
    There are advantages in having multiple rotors powered by electric motors (which are getting more efficient and lighter as they are optimised for flight).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380
    Hannah Spencer walking into Westminster, sucking her teeth, tutting, and muttering "tell you what, you've had some cowboys in here."

    https://bsky.app/profile/tpgroberts.bsky.social/post/3mft33njvdc22

    How much did they charge you for that? It will all have to come out, but don't worry dear, I can fix you a new one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,078
    algarkirk said:

    The 'most seats' market feels an odd one; like a race where for every candidate the great majority of people want it to lose. It's a market, like a maths problem, where the working out of your solution is more informative than whether the answer is right.

    A related interesting question is what in practice is the lowest thinkable (mathematically I suppose the answer is two) number for 'most seats'. At a guess it isn't much more than 125. (Whether the LDs are in fact in play rather depends on your answer. I think they are not.)

    Of the parties listed for 'most seats' IMHO the bottom 3 can be united below the label 'impossible', and the Greens as 'highly unlikely'. If there is value I think it's with the Tories, but the route from here to July 2029 ending with Tories 'most seats' while thinkable is littered with obstacles. Essentially the case for it is that in the end 'most seats' will go to centre right or centre left, and while the Tories have yet to make up their mind about it, they will probably decide that the currently unoccupied territory of 'centre right' is theirs for the taking. I think I want better than 6/1.

    If the SNP does great, say 55 seats, and Plaid have a breakthrough and get 16 seats, and we add in Northern Ireland (18), and then there's the Speaker... that leaves 560 seats. Maybe another 5 go Your Party or independent, that leaves 555. If Lab, Con, LD, Ref and the Greens are all winning seats, and they split evenly, you can get down to 112 seats as the lowest most seats that's vaguely plausible?

    What is the lowest most seats in the past? Cameron got 306/650 (47%) in 2010. Wilson got 301 in the first 1974 election, but that was only out of 635, so a slightly higher percentage than Cameron. Then we can go back to Baldwin in 1923 with 258/615 (42%), but I think the lowest ever in terms of a proportion is Asquith in Dec 1910 with 272/670, which is 41%.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,684
    Buttler fails again.

    Down to Banton and Jacks (aka Bants ?).
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 896

    Roger said:

    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can only see one winner

    I saw her on Iain Dale on the LBC YouTube channel. She was smirking and looking extremely smug about her "people on the doorstep are telling me Labour is the party of Paedo enablers". David Amess' daughter and Natalie Fleet (who was groomed and raped as a child) condemned this and she basically told them to stfu as Labour started it on Sunak's watch (true- they did) and she didn't intend to stop.

    Maybe she is onto a winner.
    Telling David Amess daughter to shut the feck up is disgusting. How any Tory can have anything but contempt for that given the circumstances is baffling

    I'm glad others have noticed that sly arrogant smirk.

  • Starmer looked broken.

    Resigns after May elections is possible. I stand by what I said, there won’t be a challenge. He will just go.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,816
    Brixian59 said:

    I think that last night's result means that the chances of Wes Streeting nd Shabana Mahmood ever becoming Labour Leader are gone, Streeting may have time if he can remain an MP. Mahmood is doing an excellent job but Labour pragmatically need a 20 to 30 degree left turn

    Given the likely end point of the ongoing realignment, Streeting and Mahmood really belong in Badenoch's Tory party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,079
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
    Not necessarily. There's likely to be a large niche for electric powered, with a large amount of that power provided by on onboard turbine/generator.
    There are advantages in having multiple rotors powered by electric motors (which are getting more efficient and lighter as they are optimised for flight).
    Physics says that large rotors are always more efficient. The larger and slower turning the better.

    Proteus (built guess where?) is already helicopter sized.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,078
    edited 4:38PM

    https://x.com/zackpolanski/status/2027401329920848311

    Dear Lucy Powell,

    I have enjoyed our exchange of letters about which of our parties is best placed to stop Reform.

    Hannah Spencer MP and I trust that you agree that this question has now been resolved once and for all.

    Thanks,
    Zack Polanski

    When the combined Green + Labour vote is more than double the Reform vote, it is academic.
    Two of the candidates in G&D have PhDs. One did a lot better than the other!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,684
    Today's SMO report; Russia bombing civilians indiscriminately with phosphorus incendiaries.

    It's like the beginning of an apocalypse: Russia has attacked Kostyantynivka with banned phosphorus, which incinerates all living things, and dropped a FAB-1500 bomb on the city.

    Terrible.

    https://x.com/jurgen_nauditt/status/2027397579160318128
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,600
    nico67 said:

    Sean_F said:

    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    nico67 said:

    In a hung parliament, the Green MPs will ultimately support a Labour government one way or another, not the Ref-Cons.

    However, if they split the left of centre vote across the country as they did yesterday, Reform will successfully "come through the middle" more often than not, and we're all buggered.

    Yes this is what many anti-Reformers fear . In this seat we got away with it but there are loads of seats where it could end in tears .
    TBF, in most seats where Reform seriously threaten Labour, the Greens do not feature. Labour already has the left-leaning vote in the Red Wall.

    What I expect is a lot of sorting. The Greens do well in student ghettos, and places with lots of poorly paid graduates. The Lib Dem’s do well in posh Britain.

    Labour and Reform fight it out in the Red Wall, and the M1 and M6 corridors. Reform sweep East Anglia and the Thames Estuary. The Tory vote holds up well in posh London, and rural strongholds.
    I had to laugh at your characterisation of “ student ghettos” !
    You know the absolute grotty flats, with curtains nailed to the pelmets, running damp, and a thriving insect population.
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 506
    MaxPB said:

    While the faith in Kemi can grow Starmer is already failing to adapt to a new landscape.

    I wonder how well a small c - green arrangement would work?

    I’ve been a member of the Conservative Environment Network since its inception and they have people that we would work with. They are definitely better than Labour on a lot of issues.

    Interesting times

    That would make me vote Reform. If the Tories get into bed with the new islamist party then they're finished for good.

    We ain’t Islamist. But not global majority averse.
  • kenoughkenough Posts: 20

    Roger said:

    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can only see one winner

    I saw her on Iain Dale on the LBC YouTube channel. She was smirking and looking extremely smug about her "people on the doorstep are telling me Labour is the party of Paedo enablers". David Amess' daughter and Natalie Fleet (who was groomed and raped as a child) condemned this and she basically told them to stfu as Labour started it on Sunak's watch (true- they did) and she didn't intend to stop.

    Maybe she is onto a winner.
    It might work for some Reform voters but I think most decent voters abhor it.

    And they would have found the Labour advert about Sunak just as distasteful.

    Arguably that moral role model Boris Johnson started this.

    It plays into the narrative "they are all the same", so arguably the biggest winners would be the outsider parties.



  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,600
    Foxy said:

    Hannah Spencer walking into Westminster, sucking her teeth, tutting, and muttering "tell you what, you've had some cowboys in here."

    https://bsky.app/profile/tpgroberts.bsky.social/post/3mft33njvdc22

    How much did they charge you for that? It will all have to come out, but don't worry dear, I can fix you a new one.

    “But, it’s going to cost you …”
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,547
    Activists target lawyers with book: 'Why Daddy’s Law Firm Works With The Nice Oil Men’

    A climate change pressure group has targeted lawyers with a satirical children’s book intended to make them rethink their evil career choices.

    Serious People is sending copies of Why Daddy’s Law Firm Works With The Nice Oil Men to "top oil and gas lawyers across London" today, it told RollOnFriday.

    ROF’s been treated to a preview copy and can confirm it’s guaranteed to delight every child of a solicitor in the energy sector. Though mums may feel slighted by the insinuation they don’t get instructions from BP as well.

    Recipients expecting a valedictory story of a heroic energy lawyer earning the respect of his offspring will be disappointed. As the blurb explains, “On a chilly winter night, a little penguin dared to wonder: if Daddy loves me, why does his law firm facilitate fossil fuel expansion?”

    The book depicts a solicitor penguin getting badgered to change his ways by his idealistic brat of a child, who doesn’t appreciate that although their antarctic habitat may get wiped out if dad carries on taking the oily dollar, the family can afford to relocate thanks to his hard work.


    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-activists-target-lawyers-book-why-daddys-law-firm-works-nice-oil-men
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,154
    algarkirk said:

    The 'most seats' market feels an odd one; like a race where for every candidate the great majority of people want it to lose. It's a market, like a maths problem, where the working out of your solution is more informative than whether the answer is right.

    A related interesting question is what in practice is the lowest thinkable (mathematically I suppose the answer is two) number for 'most seats'. At a guess it isn't much more than 125. (Whether the LDs are in fact in play rather depends on your answer. I think they are not.)

    Of the parties listed for 'most seats' IMHO the bottom 3 can be united below the label 'impossible', and the Greens as 'highly unlikely'. If there is value I think it's with the Tories, but the route from here to July 2029 ending with Tories 'most seats' while thinkable is littered with obstacles. Essentially the case for it is that in the end 'most seats' will go to centre right or centre left, and while the Tories have yet to make up their mind about it, they will probably decide that the currently unoccupied territory of 'centre right' is theirs for the taking. I think I want better than 6/1.

    Yes, you can slice and dice in a variety of ways. Here's one that occurs to me:

    Consider us like America to be in two camps. We won't say Left and Right - hackneyed - we'll say GOP and DEM. There are various tribes within each but, push to shove, people fall into one camp or the other. It isn't really binary, when considering individuals, but when macro'd up to population level, it kind of is.

    Now, this new politics of ours, Britain wide we have 7 parties in there fighting realistically for seats and they do not split evenly into the umbrella GOP and DEM camps. There are 5 in DEM and only 2 in GOP.

    This means contradictory things. It gives an advantage to the GOP parties (Ref and Con) on becoming largest single party. But it makes the most likely government a coalition (or similar but looser arrangement) of the DEM parties.

    So, despite using the US as a way into this proposition, we could be looking at something more like you see in those European (and elsewhere) countries which have PR voting systems. Perhaps we ought to consider that ourselves. For all its charms, FPTP is going to struggle with all this.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Hannah Spencer walking into Westminster, sucking her teeth, tutting, and muttering "tell you what, you've had some cowboys in here."

    https://bsky.app/profile/tpgroberts.bsky.social/post/3mft33njvdc22

    How much did they charge you for that? It will all have to come out, but don't worry dear, I can fix you a new one.

    “But, it’s going to cost you …”
    You can't get the spare parts any more...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,175
    Roger said:

    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can see only one winner

    How rude, it's all muscle.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,170
    edited 4:44PM
    Is Burnham broadly for more immigration or in favour of the current Labour policy?
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,452

    Activists target lawyers with book: 'Why Daddy’s Law Firm Works With The Nice Oil Men’

    A climate change pressure group has targeted lawyers with a satirical children’s book intended to make them rethink their evil career choices.

    Serious People is sending copies of Why Daddy’s Law Firm Works With The Nice Oil Men to "top oil and gas lawyers across London" today, it told RollOnFriday.

    ROF’s been treated to a preview copy and can confirm it’s guaranteed to delight every child of a solicitor in the energy sector. Though mums may feel slighted by the insinuation they don’t get instructions from BP as well.

    Recipients expecting a valedictory story of a heroic energy lawyer earning the respect of his offspring will be disappointed. As the blurb explains, “On a chilly winter night, a little penguin dared to wonder: if Daddy loves me, why does his law firm facilitate fossil fuel expansion?”

    The book depicts a solicitor penguin getting badgered to change his ways by his idealistic brat of a child, who doesn’t appreciate that although their antarctic habitat may get wiped out if dad carries on taking the oily dollar, the family can afford to relocate thanks to his hard work.


    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-activists-target-lawyers-book-why-daddys-law-firm-works-nice-oil-men

    Care in the Community in action
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,632
    edited 4:48PM
    Brixian59 said:

    Roger said:

    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can only see one winner

    I saw her on Iain Dale on the LBC YouTube channel. She was smirking and looking extremely smug about her "people on the doorstep are telling me Labour is the party of Paedo enablers". David Amess' daughter and Natalie Fleet (who was groomed and raped as a child) condemned this and she basically told them to stfu as Labour started it on Sunak's watch (true- they did) and she didn't intend to stop.

    Maybe she is onto a winner.
    Telling David Amess daughter to shut the feck up is disgusting. How any Tory can have anything but contempt for that given the circumstances is baffling

    I'm glad others have noticed that sly arrogant smirk.

    It is an interesting watch. Dale said Ames's daughter asked her to apologise and she said no.

    She seems very pleased with herself and she is correct that Labour started it by the Sunak ads before the last election, which were widely and correctly condemned at the time.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,364

    Is Burnham broadly for more immigration or in favour of the current Labour policy?

    It will depend on what gives him the best chances of being leader.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,816
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Hannah Spencer walking into Westminster, sucking her teeth, tutting, and muttering "tell you what, you've had some cowboys in here."

    https://bsky.app/profile/tpgroberts.bsky.social/post/3mft33njvdc22

    How much did they charge you for that? It will all have to come out, but don't worry dear, I can fix you a new one.

    “But, it’s going to cost you …”
    You can't get the spare parts any more...
    "Retrofitting is asking for trouble. You're better off demolishing it and starting from scratch with a more modern design."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,684

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
    Not necessarily. There's likely to be a large niche for electric powered, with a large amount of that power provided by on onboard turbine/generator.
    There are advantages in having multiple rotors powered by electric motors (which are getting more efficient and lighter as they are optimised for flight).
    Physics says that large rotors are always more efficient. The larger and slower turning the better.

    Proteus (built guess where?) is already helicopter sized.
    Sure - but multiple rotors means redundancy, with controllable flight even if you lose a couple.
    It's also potentially a cheaper platform to mass produce, and makes tiltrotors potentially much cheaper than their current conventionally powered equivalents.

    Unlikely to replace helicopters, but they will find their own niche.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
    Not necessarily. There's likely to be a large niche for electric powered, with a large amount of that power provided by on onboard turbine/generator.
    There are advantages in having multiple rotors powered by electric motors (which are getting more efficient and lighter as they are optimised for flight).
    Physics says that large rotors are always more efficient. The larger and slower turning the better.

    Proteus (built guess where?) is already helicopter sized.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_V-12
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,283

    Roger said:

    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can only see one winner

    I saw her on Iain Dale on the LBC YouTube channel. She was smirking and looking extremely smug about her "people on the doorstep are telling me Labour is the party of Paedo enablers". David Amess' daughter and Natalie Fleet (who was groomed and raped as a child) condemned this and she basically told them to stfu as Labour started it on Sunak's watch (true- they did) and she didn't intend to stop.

    Maybe she is onto a winner.
    I didn't see that but there's a childish element to her which grates badly. Truss also had it though not so obviously. I've just seen Zack answer a load of quite aggressive questions from -I think Sky-and he was good. There's no doubt if she doesn't want to be shown the door she'll have to stop being a smart arse and start looking like a leader.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    MaxPB said:

    While the faith in Kemi can grow Starmer is already failing to adapt to a new landscape.

    I wonder how well a small c - green arrangement would work?

    I’ve been a member of the Conservative Environment Network since its inception and they have people that we would work with. They are definitely better than Labour on a lot of issues.

    Interesting times

    That would make me vote Reform. If the Tories get into bed with the new islamist party then they're finished for good.

    We ain’t Islamist. But not global majority averse.
    The global majority is not Muslim...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,364
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I'm struggling to see what Kemi offers that is new. She's the end of a line that starts with May and goes through Boris Truss and Sunak and however you look at it there's nothing that suggests she's an upgrade.


    On the contrary. She looks like a lightweight. The odd thing is that unlike Labour I can think of two or possibly three heavyweights who are standing in the wings.

    If 2029 comes round and somehow she and Farage are competing for the right wing leadership I can only see one winner

    I saw her on Iain Dale on the LBC YouTube channel. She was smirking and looking extremely smug about her "people on the doorstep are telling me Labour is the party of Paedo enablers". David Amess' daughter and Natalie Fleet (who was groomed and raped as a child) condemned this and she basically told them to stfu as Labour started it on Sunak's watch (true- they did) and she didn't intend to stop.

    Maybe she is onto a winner.
    I didn't see that but there's a childish element to her which grates badly. Truss also had it though not so obviously. I've just seen Zack answer a load of quite aggressive questions from -I think Sky-and he was good. There's no doubt if she doesn't want to be shown the door she'll have to stop being a smart arse and start looking like a leader.
    She has time to moderate her attitude before an election, Zack however is stuck with his batshit policies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380
    edited 4:54PM
    What should worry Labour most is that Hannah Spencer looks a lot like what the Median Labour voter used to be: Young, female, aspirational, motivated, compassionate and comfortable with different cultures.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,635
    It's an odd market, this one. As the Greens rise, so should Reform. For the Greens to come first, they basically have to take over from Labour, but the journey to that point means making it much more likely that Reform wins the most seats.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,079

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
    Not necessarily. There's likely to be a large niche for electric powered, with a large amount of that power provided by on onboard turbine/generator.
    There are advantages in having multiple rotors powered by electric motors (which are getting more efficient and lighter as they are optimised for flight).
    Physics says that large rotors are always more efficient. The larger and slower turning the better.

    Proteus (built guess where?) is already helicopter sized.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_V-12
    That's a helicopter for the kids.

    Real Men (TM) have one of these - https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3741/1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,684
    Never in doubt.
    England smack NZ.

    Jacks is an inadequate in the long format, but world class in T20.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,851
    Good job England bat deep...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,816
    Foxy said:

    What should worry Labour most is that Hannah Spencer looks a lot like what the Median Labour voter used to be: Young, female, aspirational, motivated, compassionate and comfortable with different cultures.

    Contrary to the Labour line this morning, I think she'll also start as the favourite to retain the seat at the next election as well.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,364

    Foxy said:

    What should worry Labour most is that Hannah Spencer looks a lot like what the Median Labour voter used to be: Young, female, aspirational, motivated, compassionate and comfortable with different cultures.

    Contrary to the Labour line this morning, I think she'll also start as the favourite to retain the seat at the next election as well.
    I bet Labour wish she was one of theirs.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,088

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
    Not necessarily. There's likely to be a large niche for electric powered, with a large amount of that power provided by on onboard turbine/generator.
    There are advantages in having multiple rotors powered by electric motors (which are getting more efficient and lighter as they are optimised for flight).
    Physics says that large rotors are always more efficient. The larger and slower turning the better.

    Proteus (built guess where?) is already helicopter sized.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_V-12
    That's a helicopter for the kids.

    Real Men (TM) have one of these - https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3741/1
    Was he on drugs???
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,717
    Nigelb said:

    tpfkar said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    This was on the Times News yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2t5r7xeUo

    The helicopter they are working on (amongst others) is the Proteus helicopter: a full-on drone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsghRo7yfDE

    And they are going to f*** it up because Starmer is an idiot.
    The Beeb think it's going ahead

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75e14k64dvo
    Seems official.

    I was right to be a bit wary of the Telegraph story; according to the Beeb, the Telegraph has it 100% the wrong way round.
    So order approved by Reeves, overruling the MoD.

    If confirmed, that's the last time I repost anything from the Telegraph.
    It used to be a genuine newspaper.
    I think it happened like this:

    Treasury: have you finished your defence spending plan?

    Mod: no

    T: then you can’t have any new toys until you’ve eaten your greens

    M: but Rachel!

    T: no

    Unite: what the bloody hell are you playing at?

    T: ok then
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,605
    Pakistan need to beat Sri Lanka by 65 runs tommorow. That's the simpler one to work out...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,283
    edited 5:07PM
    Foxy said:

    Hannah Spencer walking into Westminster, sucking her teeth, tutting, and muttering "tell you what, you've had some cowboys in here."

    https://bsky.app/profile/tpgroberts.bsky.social/post/3mft33njvdc22

    How much did they charge you for that? It will all have to come out, but don't worry dear, I can fix you a new one.

    That's very funny! If Blair was PM he could do a very funny welcoming speech. Starmer hasn't got it unfortunately
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,079

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Absolutely effing mental.
    Its the Telegraph, so we can't be 100% sure, but this has the ring of truth.

    The Chancellor @RachelReevesMP has refused to sign off on the New Medium Helicopter contract.

    @LDO_Helicopters had set today as the deadline for a decision otherwise the Yeovil factory to be closed with the loss of at least 3,000 jobs, ending UK helicopter manufacturing.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/2027377505871544432
    Nigelb said:

    Our weapons procurement budget has actually fallen.
    Whether or not this particular decision os justified, it is one of the consequences of that.

    Thousands of jobs at Leonardo's Yeovil helicopter factory feared to be at risk after Treasury officials this morning refused to sign off £1bn medium helicopters deal.

    Source familiar with the discussions says: "It's over."

    Warns of "biblical" impact on jobs 1/2

    https://x.com/mattotele/status/2027347073863950458

    The defence industrial strategy happening in Europe just isn't over here.

    Maybe they should transfer skills and production to drones and drone technology.

    Any form of military helicopter is just a great big sitting duck.

    One nick on a rotor and it's down
    Except that

    1) They are working on drone technology there
    2) The Ukrainians, who are at the forefront of drone warfare, haven't got rid of helicopters. They use them, quite actively.
    You can't exactly transport soldiers by drone
    It will be a some time before a drone can match the range/speed/payload capability of a helicopter.

    Although hybrid designs, with small turbines producing power, show some potential.
    As an example, here's a 10kW microturbine generator you can already buy off the shelf. The kit plus tank of diesel has around 3x the energy density of an equivalent weight battery.
    https://fusionflight.com/arc/?srsltid=AfmBOoofN_RdvlP0oAbcPZ3TUew900Y3aQf6kcOhDowzxl9G4mQSk_9J
    So a large drone, powered by a gas turbine, burning jet fuel.

    For aerodynamic efficiency, have a single large rotor on top.....

    You can make a drone that can the payload of any helicopter. It will just be the size of.... the helicopter.
    Not necessarily. There's likely to be a large niche for electric powered, with a large amount of that power provided by on onboard turbine/generator.
    There are advantages in having multiple rotors powered by electric motors (which are getting more efficient and lighter as they are optimised for flight).
    Physics says that large rotors are always more efficient. The larger and slower turning the better.

    Proteus (built guess where?) is already helicopter sized.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_V-12
    That's a helicopter for the kids.

    Real Men (TM) have one of these - https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3741/1
    Was he on drugs???
    It's actually a less silly design than the Mil above - which had insane harmonic vibration and airframe flexure issues.

    By comparison, a 120 meter rotor with tip jets, turning once a minute, would be simple to debug....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,380

    Foxy said:

    What should worry Labour most is that Hannah Spencer looks a lot like what the Median Labour voter used to be: Young, female, aspirational, motivated, compassionate and comfortable with different cultures.

    Contrary to the Labour line this morning, I think she'll also start as the favourite to retain the seat at the next election as well.
    I think so too.

    We know that had Reform won Starmer would have said "we need to listen to these neglected communities and hear their legitimate concerns".

    Yet when Greens win, by taking half the former Labour vote, there is no interest from Starmer in their concerns.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,389
    3 from 3, Pakistan need to batter SL to go through and WIndies could eliminate India on Sunday
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 626
    Foxy said:

    What should worry Labour most is that Hannah Spencer looks a lot like what the Median Labour voter used to be: Young, female, aspirational, motivated, compassionate and comfortable with different cultures.

    There was nothing she said at the count last night that most Labour members and activists would disagree with.

    I can't imagine Labour throwing resources at defeating her next time, when there are Reform challengers in less diverse seats all over Greater Manchester.

    Ultimately she'll vote with Labour on most things in Parliament and Is she that different to a Campaign group Labour MP ?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,609
    As a usual non betting person are there odds quoted for the Greens not to get the highest no of seats. I'd like some of that.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,609
    Foxy said:

    What should worry Labour most is that Hannah Spencer looks a lot like what the Median Labour voter used to be: Young, female, aspirational, motivated, compassionate and comfortable with different cultures.

    Problem is the loony policies.
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