Sky News, Jon Craig: Green victory most likely. Greens beating Labour in Gorton, Reform winning in Denton with neck-and-neck for second place between Greens and Labour in that part of the constituency.
Both Green and Labour insiders saying Greens have probably won.
assuming the Greens have won,this would be their first proper northern English seat in the Commons. Long term, I think they are in a good position to challenge for a lot of inner city constituencies.
Labour should be quite worried about the defence of any urban seat which has a high population of students/graduates, and ethnic minorities. In working class seats they have the opposite problem, being tackled by Reform. Of course in the shires, Lab have generally been weaker and the Lib Dems and Tories stronger.
I don't think it can be underplayed, long term the UK is fast moving away from the two party system dominating politics. I get the impression that this time it will be very difficult for Ms Badenoch and Mr Starmer to entice voters back to their causes
The next question will be, when will FPTP break? I think we will be pretty close to this within a decade
Another point - in the event of a Green win, I think the Greens winning a constituency at Holyrood becomes very plausible.
Long term, UK Labour should be more worried about the Greens than Reform
In their heartland city seats yes the Greens are the threat but in swing seat towns and outer suburbs it is Reform the threat now, Labour are being squeezed at both ends. If the early reports are true tonight will be an absolute disaster of a result for Starmer and Labour and partly their fault, Burnham may well have held the seat
I’m not sure the Greens are guaranteed to be a threat in the next GE?
Their policies are insane but parties can survive that for a while. What they can’t survive is their entire voter base being cleanly split and totally incoherent from top to bottom
On the one hand they are the party of hugely woke irreligious young people obsessed with gay rights and saving badgers, on the other hand they are the party of very unwoke very religious older Muslims who tend to be quite homophobic and sometimes murderously so, who don’t give a fuck about badgers
It’s ridiculous. It cannot last. Just shouting “Gaza” will not be enough. At some point they will implode - that could be the general election if they come under scrutiny as a serious party
Evening everyone. I've just got back from an unexpected evening out with a mate of mine, his mother in law, his brother in law and his brother in law's partner. There was a quiz, and we won, so I am feeling quite triumphant. While we are waiting for the result, I shall favour you with all my memories of the Gorton and Denton constituency.
Denton: it's not the Denton out of Frost, but it feels like it. Functional and hard-edged. I had a friend from school from Denton, which seemed improbable at the time. I remember my 15 year old self asking incredulously 'are you really from Denton'? It was far from the roughest place in Greater Manchester, and indeed there are some big houses there amongst a lot of red-brick terraces, but it had an unupholsterness to it which seemed jarring to the suburban child that I was. My Dad had friends who had started out from there as bouncers or market traders before moving to better paid but still slightly chancy careers like insurance brokerage or sports journalism. I once saw Lancashire play a 'celebrity' (in a low level North West sense) XI at Denton Cricket Club.
Gorton: While I have nothing positive to say about Gorton itself, it bleeds into Fairfield (which could look quite pleasant if you blur your eyes) and also into Belle Vue. Belle Vue once upon a time was Manchester's Las Vegas - it had a zoo, and a circus - both of which had closed down by the time I was around - and also a speedway team, a greyhound track, and a bowling alley (when such things were exotic). I remember going bowling there a lot in my too-young-to-have-any-chance-of-getting-served-in-pubs days. Always a slight edge to it; always a feeling there could be a fight around the corner. I remember Gary Pallister in the adjacent lane once. Outside (this was the late 80s), there was a multiplex cinema in the days when it was a novelty to have one, various fast food options, and an air of menace. Once the bowling alley opened in Stockport in 1990 I never went to Belle Vue again, and slightly lamented the lack of danger.
Levenshulme: My grandmother, it strikes me now, was born in Levenshulme in 1914. It was threatening upward mobility without ever achieving it then, and that has also been its status for the last 25 years. Levenshulme will be the next Didsbury. Levenshulme will be the next Chorlton. Levenshulme will be the next Heaton Moor. It never quite makes it, it never will. There is some really quite edifying housing there. But the main drag is depressing. My mental image of Levenshulme is a traffic jam on the A6 through businesses which appeal in no way. Always bypassed by fashion; never bypassed by an actual bypass (which might actually benefit it). The train line through Levenshulme, however, for those commuting in to Manchester from the comfortable suburbs of Stockport, at the right time of year, affords a rather glorious sunrise over the Pennines and sunset over the South Manchester plain. So that's something.
I saw the Michael Keaton Batman at the cinema in Levenshulme with my little sister back in... ohhh... 1988?
Can I get in early with an 'Andy Burnham would have won'?
He may have just dodged a bullet here. The best situation for any potential challenge for Starmer is for SKS to limp on to the inevitable drubbings in May.
Then we will see who really wants the job, assuming the hierarchy don't all chicken out.
How exactly Burnham engineers a return to the Commons pre July 2029, I don't know
He may not have won
What is certain is Labour would have lost Mayoral election
Evening everyone. I've just got back from an unexpected evening out with a mate of mine, his mother in law, his brother in law and his brother in law's partner. There was a quiz, and we won, so I am feeling quite triumphant. While we are waiting for the result, I shall favour you with all my memories of the Gorton and Denton constituency.
Denton: it's not the Denton out of Frost, but it feels like it. Functional and hard-edged. I had a friend from school from Denton, which seemed improbable at the time. I remember my 15 year old self asking incredulously 'are you really from Denton'? It was far from the roughest place in Greater Manchester, and indeed there are some big houses there amongst a lot of red-brick terraces, but it had an unupholsterness to it which seemed jarring to the suburban child that I was. My Dad had friends who had started out from there as bouncers or market traders before moving to better paid but still slightly chancy careers like insurance brokerage or sports journalism. I once saw Lancashire play a 'celebrity' (in a low level North West sense) XI at Denton Cricket Club.
Gorton: While I have nothing positive to say about Gorton itself, it bleeds into Fairfield (which could look quite pleasant if you blur your eyes) and also into Belle Vue. Belle Vue once upon a time was Manchester's Las Vegas - it had a zoo, and a circus - both of which had closed down by the time I was around - and also a speedway team, a greyhound track, and a bowling alley (when such things were exotic). I remember going bowling there a lot in my too-young-to-have-any-chance-of-getting-served-in-pubs days. Always a slight edge to it; always a feeling there could be a fight around the corner. I remember Gary Pallister in the adjacent lane once. Outside (this was the late 80s), there was a multiplex cinema in the days when it was a novelty to have one, various fast food options, and an air of menace. Once the bowling alley opened in Stockport in 1990 I never went to Belle Vue again, and slightly lamented the lack of danger.
Levenshulme: My grandmother, it strikes me now, was born in Levenshulme in 1914. It was threatening upward mobility without ever achieving it then, and that has also been its status for the last 25 years. Levenshulme will be the next Didsbury. Levenshulme will be the next Chorlton. Levenshulme will be the next Heaton Moor. It never quite makes it, it never will. There is some really quite edifying housing there. But the main drag is depressing. My mental image of Levenshulme is a traffic jam on the A6 through businesses which appeal in no way. Always bypassed by fashion; never bypassed by an actual bypass (which might actually benefit it). The train line through Levenshulme, however, for those commuting in to Manchester from the comfortable suburbs of Stockport, at the right time of year, affords a rather glorious sunrise over the Pennines and sunset over the South Manchester plain. So that's something.
I saw the Michael Keaton Batman at the cinema in Levenshulme with my little sister back in... ohhh... 1988?
I used to visit my granny in her 2 up 2 down terrace in Levenshume in the 1940s and 50s
Sky News, Jon Craig: Green victory most likely. Greens beating Labour in Gorton, Reform winning in Denton with neck-and-neck for second place between Greens and Labour in that part of the constituency.
Both Green and Labour insiders saying Greens have probably won.
assuming the Greens have won,this would be their first proper northern English seat in the Commons. Long term, I think they are in a good position to challenge for a lot of inner city constituencies.
Labour should be quite worried about the defence of any urban seat which has a high population of students/graduates, and ethnic minorities. In working class seats they have the opposite problem, being tackled by Reform. Of course in the shires, Lab have generally been weaker and the Lib Dems and Tories stronger.
I don't think it can be underplayed, long term the UK is fast moving away from the two party system dominating politics. I get the impression that this time it will be very difficult for Ms Badenoch and Mr Starmer to entice voters back to their causes
The next question will be, when will FPTP break? I think we will be pretty close to this within a decade
Another point - in the event of a Green win, I think the Greens winning a constituency at Holyrood becomes very plausible.
Long term, UK Labour should be more worried about the Greens than Reform
In their heartland city seats yes the Greens are the threat but in swing seat towns and outer suburbs it is Reform the threat now, Labour are being squeezed at both ends. If the early reports are true tonight will be an absolute disaster of a result for Starmer and Labour and partly their fault, Burnham may well have held the seat
I’m not sure the Greens are guaranteed to be a threat in the next GE?
Their policies are insane but parties can survive that for a while. What they can’t survive is their entire voter base being cleanly split and totally incoherent from top to bottom
On the one hand they are the party of hugely woke irreligious young people obsessed with gay rights and saving badgers, on the other hand they are the party of very unwoke very religious older Muslims who tend to be quite homophobic and sometimes murderously so, who don’t give a fuck about badgers
It’s ridiculous. It cannot last. Just shouting “Gaza” will not be enough. At some point they will implode - that could be the general election if they come under scrutiny as a serious party
In inner cities, yes they will become a threat. They'll carry more votes from graduates than they will from young adults doing manual jobs with no degree living and working in the suburbs and county towns.
Long term, I don't think they'll do so well in North Hereford, Waveney and other large rural seats. Where they'll really come to the fore are in seats like Starmers, and Corbyns once he retires. I don't think they can be put back in the box.
Why would inner city grads want to vote for a government who prioritised the triple lock over abolishing tuition fees in England
Sky News, Jon Craig: Green victory most likely. Greens beating Labour in Gorton, Reform winning in Denton with neck-and-neck for second place between Greens and Labour in that part of the constituency.
Both Green and Labour insiders saying Greens have probably won.
assuming the Greens have won,this would be their first proper northern English seat in the Commons. Long term, I think they are in a good position to challenge for a lot of inner city constituencies.
Labour should be quite worried about the defence of any urban seat which has a high population of students/graduates, and ethnic minorities. In working class seats they have the opposite problem, being tackled by Reform. Of course in the shires, Lab have generally been weaker and the Lib Dems and Tories stronger.
I don't think it can be underplayed, long term the UK is fast moving away from the two party system dominating politics. I get the impression that this time it will be very difficult for Ms Badenoch and Mr Starmer to entice voters back to their causes
The next question will be, when will FPTP break? I think we will be pretty close to this within a decade
Another point - in the event of a Green win, I think the Greens winning a constituency at Holyrood becomes very plausible.
Long term, UK Labour should be more worried about the Greens than Reform
Which is probably good news for Reform, and bad news for the country.
If Labour swivel to chasing Green votes, it's going to ramp up the slow moving economic disaster they are currently visiting on the country to the power 10. Their back benches will like it, the general population will probably be less keen, especially when it turns out that soaking the "rich" doesn't raise very much money, but does create lots of unemployment.
Also, by doing this, they'll completely abandon the WWC vote to Reform, at which point Ref winning the next election is probably nailed on.
Sky News, Jon Craig: Green victory most likely. Greens beating Labour in Gorton, Reform winning in Denton with neck-and-neck for second place between Greens and Labour in that part of the constituency.
Both Green and Labour insiders saying Greens have probably won.
assuming the Greens have won,this would be their first proper northern English seat in the Commons. Long term, I think they are in a good position to challenge for a lot of inner city constituencies.
Labour should be quite worried about the defence of any urban seat which has a high population of students/graduates, and ethnic minorities. In working class seats they have the opposite problem, being tackled by Reform. Of course in the shires, Lab have generally been weaker and the Lib Dems and Tories stronger.
I don't think it can be underplayed, long term the UK is fast moving away from the two party system dominating politics. I get the impression that this time it will be very difficult for Ms Badenoch and Mr Starmer to entice voters back to their causes
The next question will be, when will FPTP break? I think we will be pretty close to this within a decade
Another point - in the event of a Green win, I think the Greens winning a constituency at Holyrood becomes very plausible.
Long term, UK Labour should be more worried about the Greens than Reform
In their heartland city seats yes the Greens are the threat but in swing seat towns and outer suburbs it is Reform the threat now, Labour are being squeezed at both ends. If the early reports are true tonight will be an absolute disaster of a result for Starmer and Labour and partly their fault, Burnham may well have held the seat
I’m not sure the Greens are guaranteed to be a threat in the next GE?
Their policies are insane but parties can survive that for a while. What they can’t survive is their entire voter base being cleanly split and totally incoherent from top to bottom
On the one hand they are the party of hugely woke irreligious young people obsessed with gay rights and saving badgers, on the other hand they are the party of very unwoke very religious older Muslims who tend to be quite homophobic and sometimes murderously so, who don’t give a fuck about badgers
It’s ridiculous. It cannot last. Just shouting “Gaza” will not be enough. At some point they will implode - that could be the general election if they come under scrutiny as a serious party
It worked for Labour for, literally, decades.
Hard disagree
At their core Labour voters - whatever their feelings about everything they else - had a fundamental commitment to more equality and a better outcome/more opportunity for the working and lower middle classes
Yes they were badly divided on so much else but that was their overriding mission. It’s only in recent years when they’ve allowed woke issues to overtake this that they’ve fallen apart
Same for the Tories. Patriotic capitalism. That was their overriding mission. Yes they contained social conservatives and libertine libertarians but they agreed on those core values. Then they allowed Brexit to split them completely and now they too are fucked
On this basic level the only coherent national party at the moment is reform: anti immigration, cultural cohesion and patriotic nationalism
All their supporters agree on that even if they have wildly different views on foreign policy or economic matters
This coherence matters and it is potent. The SNP have managed to stay in power for decades despite total incompetence because they have one coherent overwhelming objective which unites them all
Sky News, Jon Craig: Green victory most likely. Greens beating Labour in Gorton, Reform winning in Denton with neck-and-neck for second place between Greens and Labour in that part of the constituency.
Both Green and Labour insiders saying Greens have probably won.
assuming the Greens have won,this would be their first proper northern English seat in the Commons. Long term, I think they are in a good position to challenge for a lot of inner city constituencies.
Labour should be quite worried about the defence of any urban seat which has a high population of students/graduates, and ethnic minorities. In working class seats they have the opposite problem, being tackled by Reform. Of course in the shires, Lab have generally been weaker and the Lib Dems and Tories stronger.
I don't think it can be underplayed, long term the UK is fast moving away from the two party system dominating politics. I get the impression that this time it will be very difficult for Ms Badenoch and Mr Starmer to entice voters back to their causes
The next question will be, when will FPTP break? I think we will be pretty close to this within a decade
Another point - in the event of a Green win, I think the Greens winning a constituency at Holyrood becomes very plausible.
Long term, UK Labour should be more worried about the Greens than Reform
In their heartland city seats yes the Greens are the threat but in swing seat towns and outer suburbs it is Reform the threat now, Labour are being squeezed at both ends. If the early reports are true tonight will be an absolute disaster of a result for Starmer and Labour and partly their fault, Burnham may well have held the seat
I’m not sure the Greens are guaranteed to be a threat in the next GE?
Their policies are insane but parties can survive that for a while. What they can’t survive is their entire voter base being cleanly split and totally incoherent from top to bottom
On the one hand they are the party of hugely woke irreligious young people obsessed with gay rights and saving badgers, on the other hand they are the party of very unwoke very religious older Muslims who tend to be quite homophobic and sometimes murderously so, who don’t give a fuck about badgers
It’s ridiculous. It cannot last. Just shouting “Gaza” will not be enough. At some point they will implode - that could be the general election if they come under scrutiny as a serious party
In inner cities, yes they will become a threat. They'll carry more votes from graduates than they will from young adults doing manual jobs with no degree living and working in the suburbs and county towns.
Long term, I don't think they'll do so well in North Hereford, Waveney and other large rural seats. Where they'll really come to the fore are in seats like Starmers, and Corbyns once he retires. I don't think they can be put back in the box.
Why would inner city grads want to vote for a government who prioritised the triple lock over abolishing tuition fees in England
Fair points. I agree on the young people/tuition fees issue - it is going to hurt Labour horribly, Tories are as tainted, reform don’t really appeal to young graduates, yet
The issue will only grow in salience
But at some point the Muslim bloc will desert greens as their values are so contradictory. That might not be the next GE (as I said). Perhaps the one after that, if we haven’t been turned into techno-goo
Good economic news keeps on coming, cost of living improvement with it, this is the bottom of the dip.
The Greens have been able to out Reform Reform, the Tories are no where and the focus now on Green policy will see them melt.
Doesn't a lot depends on how poor a third they are?
If its 30/29/28, then that's fairly sellable as a narrow miss. In very difficult circumstances. If it's 34/32/21 that's going to take some explaining, even in the context of their prior expectation management.
Good economic news keeps on coming, cost of living improvement with it, this is the bottom of the dip.
The Greens have been able to out Reform Reform, the Tories are no where and the focus now on Green policy will see them melt.
Doesn't a lot depends on how poor a third they are?
If its 30/29/28, then that's fairly sellable as a narrow miss. In very difficult circumstances. If it's 34/32/21 that's going to take some explaining, even in the context of their prior expectation management.
A bad third would destroy the framing they want to run with of being the only party that can stop Farage.
Can I get in early with an 'Andy Burnham would have won'?
He may have just dodged a bullet here. The best situation for any potential challenge for Starmer is for SKS to limp on to the inevitable drubbings in May.
Then we will see who really wants the job, assuming the hierarchy don't all chicken out.
How exactly Burnham engineers a return to the Commons pre July 2029, I don't know
He may not have won
What is certain is Labour would have lost Mayoral election
The end of Burnham
He needs to thank Starmer
Some say he already has.
Did we establish there HAD to be a Mayoral election? Labour insisted under MRD applies, but legally is it not in government gift to appoint Mayors deputy for rest of the term?
With Labour crushed by Reform in the White half of this constituency, and trailing badly in third tonight, would Burnham really have made a huge dent in that deficit? If Burnham had narrowly lost, it would have been a huge if not fatal blow to his “I can save Labour” USP, wouldn’t it?
Another Labour MP tears into Keir Starmer's strategy so far
"We can’t out right wing Reform whilst at the same time try out left winging the Greens. Labour should perhaps just be Labour. Truth is McSweeney forced Starmer into the room with the NEC to block the most popular Labour politician in England in Andy Burnham. That showed weakness not strength. Keir has got away, for too long, with saying he hadn’t been involved when decisions taken have gone wrong. This time he, Keir, must own this catastrophe. The Greens with a foothold in Manchester is nothing less than a disaster for the Party. We can fight Reform on policy but we cannot appear more progressive than the Greens. Not under this leadership."
Strange, I feel almost as motivated to stay up for this as for a general election.
I normally bail out quite early on nearly all Council. and by-elections, but perhaps it's because this one seems so much of a bellwether and pointer.
Sometimes too much can be read into by-elections . The demographics of the seat and the Gaza issue were really ripe for the Greens to do well .
It's true, but it will still tell us something inportant about the prosoects of thf new versus old parties at least, I feel.
Labour chasing after Reform voters has been a disaster. Labours coalition has fragmented and they can no longer ride two horses . The 2024 election masked this because of the huge get the Tories out view of most voters .
Photocopy Reform policy and rhetoric, and find your votes going there and not staying with you - Kemi please note.
Looking at the Conservative Website this evening, the successful ICE work across the pond, is nice for us too under Conservative government.
“Removals Force established, to remove 150,000 per year” It’s the questions about details on the soundbite like this I am sure can undermine any Conservative recovery when the General Election comes. Will the Conservatives have to legislate through Parliament to leave the ECHR, end the Immigration Tribunal, end Judicial Review and legal aid for immigration cases, in order to set up a workable UK ICE?
If Maria is deported, my mum could be deported back to HK for stepping out of line just a little bit, as they desperately look to remove 150,000 with funny skin colour each year. And once there, she is so mouthy she will soon be imprisoned for decades.
Okay. On a purely personal level, this is a huge selling point of the policy to me. 🤣
But I’m still right in the point I’m making. This Badenoch policy has to go before the GE manifesto is written.
Apologies for getting the turnout prediction wrong this time. 47.6%.
Looking at the Green policies that have won tonight
100% Tax on "Super-Rich" Assets Scrapping Trident & Removing Foreign Nukes A "Tenants' Right to Demand" Energy Upgrades Phasing Out Private Landlords Radical Drug Law Reform And, last but not least, Abolishing the Home Office for a department that dismantles our borders and treats all migrants as "citizens in waiting".
How could anyone have guessed a huge Green Wave carrying them home. 🤦♀️
Apologies for getting the turnout prediction wrong this time. 47.6%.
You’re still the go to guy for predictions. Have you now updated your overall prediction?
I’ve recalibrated mine. Not the order but the division of the votes
I think this is a pretty robust green win. Reform 2nd but not that close. Labour a definite third and quite well behind
That’s brilliant for the greens, satisfying for reform and disastrous for Labour (and the Tories and Lib Dems who now barely count in many parts of the country)
If Labour really have come a distant third (and I’m now suspicious of expectations management (hereafter knows as speccymang)) then that is properly disastrous for them
That the GE turnout was sadly but typically that low is only of note in this uber Labour heartland constituency because it makes the turnout in this by-election absolutely incredible?! I have listened to some Spaces and followed reports on X about the on the ground campaign and feedback and one of the most common reports was of clear typical voter apathy in a seat like this so I was expecting the turn out to match that by being much lower as a result.
I was listening to a Spaces a couple of days ago and I was struck by three different contributers who had been campaigning on the ground in different parts of this constituency for Reform and were all being brutally honest and who all predicted either a more likely Green win or Labour just hanging on by the skin of their teeth. Interestingly one of them said that part of the problem for Reform was their choice of candidate and that Matt Goodwin was simple not a good fit for this constituency and that someone with a more local high profile might have performed better.
If Labour really have come a distant third (and I’m now suspicious of expectations management (hereafter knows as speccymang)) then that is properly disastrous for them
Hahahahahaha
The honest flip side of that, if Reform can perform as strongly as this in one of their least favourable challenges in the entire nation, it’s been a bloody good night for Reform, to be fair.
I can’t believe you’ve all gone to bed. I’m up and at it, ready for wild speculation and insider gossip
This is not the PB I remember when we would sit through the night together, waiting for news at the council elex in Powys
I am here and I do remember nights like this over the years when I would be absolute mince in the morning as a result! I always had the best intentions and set myself a clear bedtime if a by-election result was going to be really late, but I always was broke it.
Evening everyone. I've just got back from an unexpected evening out with a mate of mine, his mother in law, his brother in law and his brother in law's partner. There was a quiz, and we won, so I am feeling quite triumphant. While we are waiting for the result, I shall favour you with all my memories of the Gorton and Denton constituency.
Denton: it's not the Denton out of Frost, but it feels like it. Functional and hard-edged. I had a friend from school from Denton, which seemed improbable at the time. I remember my 15 year old self asking incredulously 'are you really from Denton'? It was far from the roughest place in Greater Manchester, and indeed there are some big houses there amongst a lot of red-brick terraces, but it had an unupholsterness to it which seemed jarring to the suburban child that I was. My Dad had friends who had started out from there as bouncers or market traders before moving to better paid but still slightly chancy careers like insurance brokerage or sports journalism. I once saw Lancashire play a 'celebrity' (in a low level North West sense) XI at Denton Cricket Club.
Gorton: While I have nothing positive to say about Gorton itself, it bleeds into Fairfield (which could look quite pleasant if you blur your eyes) and also into Belle Vue. Belle Vue once upon a time was Manchester's Las Vegas - it had a zoo, and a circus - both of which had closed down by the time I was around - and also a speedway team, a greyhound track, and a bowling alley (when such things were exotic). I remember going bowling there a lot in my too-young-to-have-any-chance-of-getting-served-in-pubs days. Always a slight edge to it; always a feeling there could be a fight around the corner. I remember Gary Pallister in the adjacent lane once. Outside (this was the late 80s), there was a multiplex cinema in the days when it was a novelty to have one, various fast food options, and an air of menace. Once the bowling alley opened in Stockport in 1990 I never went to Belle Vue again, and slightly lamented the lack of danger.
Levenshulme: My grandmother, it strikes me now, was born in Levenshulme in 1914. It was threatening upward mobility without ever achieving it then, and that has also been its status for the last 25 years. Levenshulme will be the next Didsbury. Levenshulme will be the next Chorlton. Levenshulme will be the next Heaton Moor. It never quite makes it, it never will. There is some really quite edifying housing there. But the main drag is depressing. My mental image of Levenshulme is a traffic jam on the A6 through businesses which appeal in no way. Always bypassed by fashion; never bypassed by an actual bypass (which might actually benefit it). The train line through Levenshulme, however, for those commuting in to Manchester from the comfortable suburbs of Stockport, at the right time of year, affords a rather glorious sunrise over the Pennines and sunset over the South Manchester plain. So that's something.
I saw the Michael Keaton Batman at the cinema in Levenshulme with my little sister back in... ohhh... 1988?
The next Labour leader does have to do one thing that all the Labour Party apart from the Zionist clique want.
Calling for a 2 state solution is not enough Kier.
Cut all trade with Israel until regime change there
Ban Israeli imports and exports.
Seek the arrest of Israeli Government for war crimes.
Do the right and honourable thing. Track down the war criminals.
Treat Netanyahu like Putin, that's what he is.
You will unite the centre left.
The middle east received just 4% in the recent poll as the most important issue facing the country
Amongst under 25s it's a big issue.
They view Ukraine as an army v an army A good army v a nasty army but a war of 2 equals
They view Gaza as something very differnt An army v a disadvantaged down trodden people, barbarism and in their eyes a form of genocide.
Labour has misread that badly is seen as bad as the Tories and Reform in being complicit in support of Netanyahu.
A generation will not forgive this
The next Labour leader Must renounce zionism. It is the one word educated underv25s use more than any other.
Gaza.
Thats what Polanski, an anti zionist Jew has tapped in to.
Labour are terrified of the anti semitism slur. Polanski has defined that a jew can be anti zionist in a way none in the progressive Labour movement has been able to. Be has motivated the Muslim base and the liberal way base.
He deserves credit for this. Labour is as beholden to the zionists as the tories.
I can’t believe you’ve all gone to bed. I’m up and at it, ready for wild speculation and insider gossip
This is not the PB I remember when we would sit through the night together, waiting for news at the council elex in Powys
I am here and I do remember nights like this over the years when I would be absolute mince in the morning as a result! I always had the best intentions and set myself a clear bedtime if a by-election result was going to be really late, but I always was broke it.
The next Labour leader does have to do one thing that all the Labour Party apart from the Zionist clique want.
Calling for a 2 state solution is not enough Kier.
Cut all trade with Israel until regime change there
Ban Israeli imports and exports.
Seek the arrest of Israeli Government for war crimes.
Do the right and honourable thing. Track down the war criminals.
Treat Netanyahu like Putin, that's what he is.
You will unite the centre left.
The middle east received just 4% in the recent poll as the most important issue facing the country
Amongst under 25s it's a big issue.
They view Ukraine as an army v an army A good army v a nasty army but a war of 2 equals
They view Gaza as something very differnt An army v a disadvantaged down trodden people, barbarism and in their eyes a form of genocide.
Labour has misread that badly is seen as bad as the Tories and Reform in being complicit in support of Netanyahu.
A generation will not forgive this
The next Labour leader Must renounce zionism. It is the one word educated underv25s use more than any other.
Gaza.
Thats what Polanski, an anti zionist Jew has tapped in to.
Labour are terrified of the anti semitism slur. Polanski has defined that a jew can be anti zionist in a way none in the progressive Labour movement has been able to. Be has motivated the Muslim base and the liberal way base.
He deserves credit for this. Labour is as beholden to the zionists as the tories.
It has cost them dear here clearly.
You do know that no-one normal gives a flying fuck about "Zionism" and Gaza, right?
Still up but getting very tired. Not sure I'll make it to the result.
Man up!
I keep nodding off and waking up. Tiredness vs pain, round X of lots. Can't have telly on cos in B&B. It's very quiet, which is odd cos next to main road. Traffic will rise as morning progresses, waking me up again. Up and down like a w****s drawers as they used to say. Still may make it to 4pm. So it goes...
Evening everyone. I've just got back from an unexpected evening out with a mate of mine, his mother in law, his brother in law and his brother in law's partner. There was a quiz, and we won, so I am feeling quite triumphant. While we are waiting for the result, I shall favour you with all my memories of the Gorton and Denton constituency.
Denton: it's not the Denton out of Frost, but it feels like it. Functional and hard-edged. I had a friend from school from Denton, which seemed improbable at the time. I remember my 15 year old self asking incredulously 'are you really from Denton'? It was far from the roughest place in Greater Manchester, and indeed there are some big houses there amongst a lot of red-brick terraces, but it had an unupholsterness to it which seemed jarring to the suburban child that I was. My Dad had friends who had started out from there as bouncers or market traders before moving to better paid but still slightly chancy careers like insurance brokerage or sports journalism. I once saw Lancashire play a 'celebrity' (in a low level North West sense) XI at Denton Cricket Club.
Gorton: While I have nothing positive to say about Gorton itself, it bleeds into Fairfield (which could look quite pleasant if you blur your eyes) and also into Belle Vue. Belle Vue once upon a time was Manchester's Las Vegas - it had a zoo, and a circus - both of which had closed down by the time I was around - and also a speedway team, a greyhound track, and a bowling alley (when such things were exotic). I remember going bowling there a lot in my too-young-to-have-any-chance-of-getting-served-in-pubs days. Always a slight edge to it; always a feeling there could be a fight around the corner. I remember Gary Pallister in the adjacent lane once. Outside (this was the late 80s), there was a multiplex cinema in the days when it was a novelty to have one, various fast food options, and an air of menace. Once the bowling alley opened in Stockport in 1990 I never went to Belle Vue again, and slightly lamented the lack of danger.
Levenshulme: My grandmother, it strikes me now, was born in Levenshulme in 1914. It was threatening upward mobility without ever achieving it then, and that has also been its status for the last 25 years. Levenshulme will be the next Didsbury. Levenshulme will be the next Chorlton. Levenshulme will be the next Heaton Moor. It never quite makes it, it never will. There is some really quite edifying housing there. But the main drag is depressing. My mental image of Levenshulme is a traffic jam on the A6 through businesses which appeal in no way. Always bypassed by fashion; never bypassed by an actual bypass (which might actually benefit it). The train line through Levenshulme, however, for those commuting in to Manchester from the comfortable suburbs of Stockport, at the right time of year, affords a rather glorious sunrise over the Pennines and sunset over the South Manchester plain. So that's something.
I saw the Michael Keaton Batman at the cinema in Levenshulme with my little sister back in... ohhh... 1988?
Moments you wish you could have been there, #37 in a series:
A friend of ours was dating Keaton back then.
They went to an American equivalent of Levenshulme to watch the movie. For a laugh. When somebody in front of them started talking, "Batman" stood up behind them and told them to be quiet...
The next Labour leader does have to do one thing that all the Labour Party apart from the Zionist clique want.
Calling for a 2 state solution is not enough Kier.
Cut all trade with Israel until regime change there
Ban Israeli imports and exports.
Seek the arrest of Israeli Government for war crimes.
Do the right and honourable thing. Track down the war criminals.
Treat Netanyahu like Putin, that's what he is.
You will unite the centre left.
The middle east received just 4% in the recent poll as the most important issue facing the country
Amongst under 25s it's a big issue.
They view Ukraine as an army v an army A good army v a nasty army but a war of 2 equals
They view Gaza as something very differnt An army v a disadvantaged down trodden people, barbarism and in their eyes a form of genocide.
Labour has misread that badly is seen as bad as the Tories and Reform in being complicit in support of Netanyahu.
A generation will not forgive this
The next Labour leader Must renounce zionism. It is the one word educated underv25s use more than any other.
Gaza.
Thats what Polanski, an anti zionist Jew has tapped in to.
Labour are terrified of the anti semitism slur. Polanski has defined that a jew can be anti zionist in a way none in the progressive Labour movement has been able to. Be has motivated the Muslim base and the liberal way base.
He deserves credit for this. Labour is as beholden to the zionists as the tories.
It has cost them dear here clearly.
You do know that no-one normal gives a flying fuck about "Zionism" and Gaza, right?
And anyone that uses the phrase “Zionist clique” is an anti semite. End of
Labour source at the Gorton and Denton by-election count saying, if you look at the ballots on the tables it’s clear ‘the progressives have won’ over Reform UK, but they added they just hoped Labour hasn’t been ‘smashed’.
Labour source at the Gorton and Denton by-election count saying, if you look at the ballots on the tables it’s clear ‘the progressives have won’ over Reform UK, but they added they just hoped Labour hasn’t been ‘smashed’.
Looks rather like a concession of the 1-2-3 there. Modest Labour contribution to "the progressives' vote"?
Prettty much every Labour will see Downhill Skyr loses them their seat.
Labour source at the Gorton and Denton by-election count saying, if you look at the ballots on the tables it’s clear ‘the progressives have won’ over Reform UK, but they added they just hoped Labour hasn’t been ‘smashed’.
This is a ludicrous talking point in a seat where in 2024 the progressive parties beat Reform/Tories 78:22.
Labour source at the Gorton and Denton by-election count saying, if you look at the ballots on the tables it’s clear ‘the progressives have won’ over Reform UK, but they added they just hoped Labour hasn’t been ‘smashed’.
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
Still up but getting very tired. Not sure I'll make it to the result.
Man up!
I keep nodding off and waking up. Tiredness vs pain, round X of lots. Can't have telly on cos in B&B. It's very quiet, which is odd cos next to main road. Traffic will rise as morning progresses, waking me up again. Up and down like a w****s drawers as they used to say. Still may make it to 4pm. So it goes...
Labour source at the Gorton and Denton by-election count saying, if you look at the ballots on the tables it’s clear ‘the progressives have won’ over Reform UK, but they added they just hoped Labour hasn’t been ‘smashed’.
This is a ludicrous talking point in a seat where in 2024 the progressive parties beat Reform/Tories 78:22.
....and we're live from the Straw-clutching Olympics in Manchester, where the Labour contestant has failed to clear the bar at the first attempt...
The next Labour leader does have to do one thing that all the Labour Party apart from the Zionist clique want.
Calling for a 2 state solution is not enough Kier.
Cut all trade with Israel until regime change there
Ban Israeli imports and exports.
Seek the arrest of Israeli Government for war crimes.
Do the right and honourable thing. Track down the war criminals.
Treat Netanyahu like Putin, that's what he is.
You will unite the centre left.
The middle east received just 4% in the recent poll as the most important issue facing the country
4% is a big deal in a close election.
Every single bloody war is by inches. There's a speech by Al Pacino in Any Given Sunday about fighting for that inch, day in, day out, complete with strings on the soundtrack. And if I was on the laptop not the tablet then I could post a link and this post would be a lot more interesting...
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
Concerning, but the real family voting happens when the head of the household fills in all the postal votes without anyone else seeing them. That's why postal votes on demand needs to end. But both main parties think on balance they benefit, so they won't do it.
How can you have both strict Voter ID in person and postal votes where the only ID is at the point of application? Makes no sense.
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
Concerning, but the real family voting happens when the head of the household fills in all the postal votes without anyone else seeing them. That's why postal votes on demand needs to end. But both main parties think on balance they benefit, so they won't do it.
How can you have both strict Voter ID in person and postal votes where the only ID is at the point of application? Makes no sense.
Yes, there’s at least as much family collusion happening with postal votes as in-person voting,
I agree that postal votes should be limited and require a reason.
It would have be really ironic if Keir Starmer's position as PM and leader of the Labour party might have been shored up for a bit longer if he and his team had allowed Andy Burnham to run as the Labour candidate in this by-election, and if selected he had gone onto hold this uber safe Labour seat for the governing Labour up against the Greens and Reform in one of the most historically uber safe Labour seats. Just a thought...
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
Concerning, but the real family voting happens when the head of the household fills in all the postal votes without anyone else seeing them. That's why postal votes on demand needs to end. But both main parties think on balance they benefit, so they won't do it.
How can you have both strict Voter ID in person and postal votes where the only ID is at the point of application? Makes no sense.
People are taking photos of their ballot papers under threat of intimidation from the head of their household if they don't.
Let's call it what it is: fraud, and a violation of the Secret Ballot Act.
Will anything be done? Absolutely not, because it will be seen as a "cultural matter".
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
Concerning, but the real family voting happens when the head of the household fills in all the postal votes without anyone else seeing them. That's why postal votes on demand needs to end. But both main parties think on balance they benefit, so they won't do it.
How can you have both strict Voter ID in person and postal votes where the only ID is at the point of application? Makes no sense.
People are taking photos of their ballot papers under threat of intimidation from the head of their household if they don't.
Let's call it what it is: fraud, and a violation of the Secret Ballot Act.
Will anything be done? Absolutely not, because it will be seen as a "cultural matter".
You could still take a photo of your ballot paper with a cross against the Greens - then spoiled your ballot with a subsequent cross against Labour too.
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
Concerning, but the real family voting happens when the head of the household fills in all the postal votes without anyone else seeing them. That's why postal votes on demand needs to end. But both main parties think on balance they benefit, so they won't do it.
How can you have both strict Voter ID in person and postal votes where the only ID is at the point of application? Makes no sense.
People are taking photos of their ballot papers under threat of intimidation from the head of their household if they don't.
Let's call it what it is: fraud, and a violation of the Secret Ballot Act.
Will anything be done? Absolutely not, because it will be seen as a "cultural matter".
Perhaps the answer is segregated voting at the polling station, men go one way and women go the other way…
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
It's a great relief to contemplate the end of Labour if they follow the path of the hard left now and try to win a GE where the central message is based on sectarian hatred of the existence of Israel
Congratulations to the Greens. I called this very wrong.
However, I am still 100% of the view that a party who opposes NATO and wants to leave it has no business being near anywhere government. This is something that will come under a lot more scrutiny now.
I’ve said it before but I’m very glad we never elected Corbyn even though I supported him. Because of Ukraine it was better we had Johnson.
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
It's a great relief to contemplate the end of Labour if they follow the path of the hard left now and try to win a GE where the central message is based on sectarian hatred of the existence of Israel
There is little support for apartheid except among the racist right
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
Which has absolutely nothing to do with anyone in Britain, we're not responsible for, we can't influence or control anyway, and is just one of many challenging issues in world affairs right now, and not even the biggest one.
It's entirely perfomative and irrelevant to any of rhe real issues.
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
The Iranian regime you support killed lots of people too!
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
Which has absolutely nothing to do with anyone in Britain, we're not responsible for, we can't influence or control anyway, and is just one of many challenging issues in world affairs right now, and not even the biggest one.
It's entirely perfomative and irrelevant to any of rhe real issues.
Did you support aparthed in South Africa? Yes of course you did. I forgot. Most Tories did. For most on the left if was the defining issue of the time. It's what politicised a generation. Maybe you are too young?
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
Which has absolutely nothing to do with anyone in Britain, we're not responsible for, we can't influence or control anyway, and is just one of many challenging issues in world affairs right now, and not even the biggest one.
It's entirely perfomative and irrelevant to any of rhe real issues.
SeanT called it a few years ago: everybody lives online (well, his definition of "everybody"). If you live in the real world and you see the crumbling architecture and deterioration of services, you vote one way. If you spend all day doomscrolling thru your algorithmic feed, it's all Gaza! Trans! Immigrants! Charlie Kirk! and you vote another way. People have become disconnected.
I am also still of the view that this blunts Reform’s momentum. They are already going Trump and implying the election has been stolen.
Labour though, caught in the worst of all worlds. Hung Parliament or Reform victory because of a split vote has to be likely.
Definitely good for Labour. Labour's only enemy here is the right and if they can't win when the left are split in half they are on the way down. But they always were. No Fascist Party will win here!
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
Which has absolutely nothing to do with anyone in Britain, we're not responsible for, we can't influence or control anyway, and is just one of many challenging issues in world affairs right now, and not even the biggest one.
It's entirely perfomative and irrelevant to any of rhe real issues.
Did you support aparthed in South Africa? Yes of course you did. I forgot. Most Tories did. For most on the left if was the defining issue of the time. It's what politicised a generation. Maybe you are too young?
If memory serves, @Casino_Royale is too young to have been politically active during the apartheid years.
I don't think campaigning on Gaza is going to win many seats for the Greens at a general election. I hope the posters on here talking about it aren't representative of the Greens.
Great candidate and the Party Labour should have been. The left won't support a genocide. Even the centre left. I hope Diane Abbott laughs herself to sleep
The Iranian regime you support killed lots of people too!
I don't think campaigning on Gaza is going to win many seats for the Greens at a general election. I hope the posters on here talking about it aren't representative of the Greens.
I can’t help but think we’re at 2017 Labour equivalent for the Greens. I just cannot see their policy platform surviving scrutiny.
I am also still of the view that this blunts Reform’s momentum. They are already going Trump and implying the election has been stolen.
Labour though, caught in the worst of all worlds. Hung Parliament or Reform victory because of a split vote has to be likely.
Definitely good for Labour. Labour's only enemy here is the right and if they can't win when the left are split in half they are on the way down. But they always were. No Fascist Party will win here!
That said, one of the things about Gaza as an issue is that for many people it has a moral simplicity that domestic issues lack, precisely because it has nothing to do with Britain and so the complexities and tradeoffs can be ignored.
I don't think it's the most important issue for many people, but many people see it as a simple one that Starmer is on the wrong side of.
I think it has a lot of similarities to immigration as an issue in those respects.
Comments
What is certain is Labour would have lost Mayoral election
The end of Burnham
He needs to thank Starmer
Some say he already has.
If Labour lose the seat.
It will be the 11th successive By Election that the defending Party has lost
Long term, I don't think they'll do so well in North Hereford, Waveney and other large rural seats. Where they'll really come to the fore are in seats like Starmers, and Corbyns once he retires. I don't think they can be put back in the box.
Why would inner city grads want to vote for a government who prioritised the triple lock over abolishing tuition fees in England
If Labour swivel to chasing Green votes, it's going to ramp up the slow moving economic disaster they are currently visiting on the country to the power 10. Their back benches will like it, the general population will probably be less keen, especially when it turns out that soaking the "rich" doesn't raise very much money, but does create lots of unemployment.
Also, by doing this, they'll completely abandon the WWC vote to Reform, at which point Ref winning the next election is probably nailed on.
At their core Labour voters - whatever their feelings about everything they else - had a fundamental commitment to more equality and a better outcome/more opportunity for the working and lower middle classes
Yes they were badly divided on so much else but that was their overriding mission. It’s only in recent years when they’ve allowed woke issues to overtake this that they’ve fallen apart
Same for the Tories. Patriotic capitalism. That was their overriding mission. Yes they contained social conservatives and libertine libertarians but they agreed on those core values. Then they allowed Brexit to split them completely and now they too are fucked
On this basic level the only coherent national party at the moment is reform: anti immigration, cultural cohesion and patriotic nationalism
All their supporters agree on that even if they have wildly different views on foreign policy or economic matters
This coherence matters and it is potent. The SNP have managed to stay in power for decades despite total incompetence because they have one coherent overwhelming objective which unites them all
Only 46.8% at the GE 2024!
3rd was factored in.
Good economic news keeps on coming, cost of living improvement with it, this is the bottom of the dip.
The Greens have been able to out Reform Reform, the Tories are no where and the focus now on Green policy will see them melt.
The issue will only grow in salience
But at some point the Muslim bloc will desert greens as their values are so contradictory. That might not be the next GE (as I said). Perhaps the one after that, if we haven’t been turned into techno-goo
The result seems pretty clear, so I'll head for bed. Night all!
A labour mp has already text Sam Coates questioning Starmer's future
Labour mps must be watching in horror - this is their 6th safest seat
If its 30/29/28, then that's fairly sellable as a narrow miss. In very difficult circumstances.
If it's 34/32/21 that's going to take some explaining, even in the context of their prior expectation management.
Now 4th otoh...
With Labour crushed by Reform in the White half of this constituency, and trailing badly in third tonight, would Burnham really have made a huge dent in that deficit? If Burnham had narrowly lost, it would have been a huge if not fatal blow to his “I can save Labour” USP, wouldn’t it?
Another Labour MP tears into Keir Starmer's strategy so far
"We can’t out right wing Reform whilst at the same time try out left winging the Greens. Labour should perhaps just be Labour. Truth is McSweeney forced Starmer into the room with the NEC to block the most popular Labour politician in England in Andy Burnham. That showed weakness not strength. Keir has got away, for too long, with saying he hadn’t been involved when decisions taken have gone wrong. This time he, Keir, must own this catastrophe. The Greens with a foothold in Manchester is nothing less than a disaster for the Party. We can fight Reform on policy but we cannot appear more progressive than the Greens. Not under this leadership."
Looking at the Conservative Website this evening, the successful ICE work across the pond, is nice for us too under Conservative government.
“Removals Force established, to remove 150,000 per year”
It’s the questions about details on the soundbite like this I am sure can undermine any Conservative recovery when the General Election comes.
Will the Conservatives have to legislate through Parliament to leave the ECHR, end the Immigration Tribunal, end Judicial Review and legal aid for immigration cases, in order to set up a workable UK ICE?
And how does it play out in practice? For example, is Badenoch’s Tory party more than happy to do things like this example over and over on an industrial scale?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/feb/26/how-can-i-start-again-at-68-maria-has-spent-50-years-in-the-uk-and-is-fighting-deportation
If Maria is deported, my mum could be deported back to HK for stepping out of line just a little bit, as they desperately look to remove 150,000 with funny skin colour each year. And once there, she is so mouthy she will soon be imprisoned for decades.
Okay. On a purely personal level, this is a huge selling point of the policy to me. 🤣
But I’m still right in the point I’m making. This Badenoch policy has to go before the GE manifesto is written.
100% Tax on "Super-Rich" Assets
Scrapping Trident & Removing Foreign Nukes
A "Tenants' Right to Demand" Energy Upgrades
Phasing Out Private Landlords
Radical Drug Law Reform
And, last but not least, Abolishing the Home Office for a department that dismantles our borders and treats all migrants as "citizens in waiting".
How could anyone have guessed a huge Green Wave carrying them home. 🤦♀️
You are absolutely forgiven.
I’ve recalibrated mine. Not the order but the division of the votes
I think this is a pretty robust green win. Reform 2nd but not that close. Labour a definite third and quite well behind
That’s brilliant for the greens, satisfying for reform and disastrous for Labour (and the Tories and Lib Dems who now barely count in many parts of the country)
Calling for a 2 state solution is not enough Kier.
Cut all trade with Israel until regime change there
Ban Israeli imports and exports.
Seek the arrest of Israeli Government for war crimes.
Do the right and honourable thing. Track down the war criminals.
Treat Netanyahu like Putin, that's what he is.
You will unite the centre left.
“The Zionist clique”
Took a while but, kerplunk, your mask falls
"Greens have won, if they have, by fighting a really divisive, sectarian campaign".
Hahahahahaha
This is not the PB I remember when we would sit through the night together, waiting for news at the council elex in Powys
I was listening to a Spaces a couple of days ago and I was struck by three different contributers who had been campaigning on the ground in different parts of this constituency for Reform and were all being brutally honest and who all predicted either a more likely Green win or Labour just hanging on by the skin of their teeth. Interestingly one of them said that part of the problem for Reform was their choice of candidate and that Matt Goodwin was simple not a good fit for this constituency and that someone with a more local high profile might have performed better.
Unfortunately. 🤬
They view Ukraine as an army v an army A good army v a nasty army but a war of 2 equals
They view Gaza as something very differnt
An army v a disadvantaged down trodden people, barbarism and in their eyes a form of genocide.
Labour has misread that badly is seen as bad as the Tories and Reform in being complicit in support of Netanyahu.
A generation will not forgive this
The next Labour leader Must renounce zionism. It is the one word educated underv25s use more than any other.
Gaza.
Thats what Polanski, an anti zionist Jew has tapped in to.
Labour are terrified of the anti semitism slur. Polanski has defined that a jew can be anti zionist in a way none in the progressive Labour movement has been able to. Be has motivated the Muslim base and the liberal way base.
He deserves credit for this. Labour is as beholden to the zionists as the tories.
It has cost them dear here clearly.
Israel = 22,000 sq. km. (roughly the same size as Wales)
Clearly voters really motivated to give Labour a kicking.
I expect the Greens have very clearly won, and it won't be close.
A friend of ours was dating Keaton back then.
They went to an American equivalent of Levenshulme to watch the movie. For a laugh. When somebody in front of them started talking, "Batman" stood up behind them and told them to be quiet...
Labour source at the Gorton and Denton by-election count saying, if you look at the ballots on the tables it’s clear ‘the progressives have won’ over Reform UK, but they added they just hoped Labour hasn’t been ‘smashed’.
Prettty much every Labour will see Downhill Skyr loses them their seat.
And how we laughed.
John Loony of this parish is on vote-2012.
https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19858/gorton-denton?page=136
https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2027142542685311359
‘Today we have seen concerningly high levels of family voting in Gorton and Denton. Based on our assessment of today’s observations, we have seen the highest levels of family voting at any election in our 10 year history of observing elections in the UK.’
‘We rarely issue a report on the night of an election, but the data we have collected today on family voting, when compared to other recent by-elections, is extremely high.’
The team also saw a number of voters taking photographs of their ballot papers and one voter being authorised to vote despite them already having been marked as voted earlier in the day.
If Labour had fielded an Andy Burnham they'd've won
If, if, if...
We all know what that means.
How can you have both strict Voter ID in person and postal votes where the only ID is at the point of application? Makes no sense.
But the Burnham Fan Club will be quite clear in their minds that the fault lies with Starmer for not letting their man stand.
I agree that postal votes should be limited and require a reason.
*How small does a collective have to be before it fails to be a "Club"?
Let's call it what it is: fraud, and a violation of the Secret Ballot Act.
Will anything be done? Absolutely not, because it will be seen as a "cultural matter".
As will the wasp-chewing look on the face of Nigel Farage as he trots out "South Asian voting practices..."
That’s only half joking.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cp8rjk02r0jt
https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-mandelson-starmer-labour-farage-badenoch-12593360
However, I am still 100% of the view that a party who opposes NATO and wants to leave it has no business being near anywhere government. This is something that will come under a lot more scrutiny now.
I’ve said it before but I’m very glad we never elected Corbyn even though I supported him. Because of Ukraine it was better we had Johnson.
It's entirely perfomative and irrelevant to any of rhe real issues.
Labour though, caught in the worst of all worlds. Hung Parliament or Reform victory because of a split vote has to be likely.
You're too smart for posts like that.
I don't think it's the most important issue for many people, but many people see it as a simple one that Starmer is on the wrong side of.
I think it has a lot of similarities to immigration as an issue in those respects.