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There’s a new poll in Gorton & Denton – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,959
edited 4:54PM in General
There’s a new poll in Gorton & Denton – politicalbetting.com

I’ve not been able to analyse this poll in detail but it does appear to be more statistically significant that the Find Out Now poll. I think this poll is a good poll for Reform.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,915
    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,584

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    Is that because the Greens might get a Gorton MP, the Prince formerly known as Andrew or Constitution Hill's race at Southwell tonight :naughty:
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,915
    Pulpstar said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    Is that because the Greens might get a Gorton MP, the Prince formerly known as Andrew or Constitution Hill's race at Southwell tonight :naughty:
    Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is just too much to type.

    He should be officially retitled as Ponce Andrew.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,674

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    Agreed. The tariff decision is a major blow for him and, for once, seriously trims his wings in terms of executive power. He will be desperate to show he still has sufficient executive power to make a difference.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,880

    Pulpstar said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    Is that because the Greens might get a Gorton MP, the Prince formerly known as Andrew or Constitution Hill's race at Southwell tonight :naughty:
    Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is just too much to type.

    He should be officially retitled as Ponce Andrew.

    Duke of Dork.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649
    The number of Don't Knows makes it a genuine 3 horse race which Labour would not have believed possible 10 days ago.

    Key factors

    Weather
    Ground Forces

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219

    Pulpstar said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    Is that because the Greens might get a Gorton MP, the Prince formerly known as Andrew or Constitution Hill's race at Southwell tonight :naughty:
    Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is just too much to type.

    He should be officially retitled as Ponce Andrew.

    He should be known as the Andrew formerly known as Prince.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,452

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,452
    Brixian59 said:

    Key factors

    Weather
    Ground Forces

    Are we talking about Gorton or Iran?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,615
    Fpt for @MoonRabbit on my CHINESE PICTURE QUIZ


    “It’s a dragon.

    Special because it made in ancient times? By the Xiongnu?

    Or special because it’s from Europe?”

    You are a third and a bit right. 40% right

    The correct answer is quite mind blowing
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,405
    FPT @turbotubbs Re Horizon...

    That was no doubt a factor, Turbo, and I strongly suspect that back in pre-Horizon days a lot of pilfering went on. The Post Offices were pre-eminenty cash businesses and may well have been a soft touch for dishonest owners. The PO management clearly believed this, and when Horizon was introduced their reaction would have been a perfectly understandable 'gotcha'.

    That however was only one factor in a perfect storm of misapprehensions and misdeeds contributing to this appalling scandal.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,519
    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649

    Brixian59 said:

    Key factors

    Weather
    Ground Forces

    Are we talking about Gorton or Iran?
    Could be both
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362
    edited 5:16PM

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    I don't see how that helps Reform get that extra 5% they need in Gorton though.

    (Yes, I know others have made the joke, won't stop me).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,057
    Leon said:

    Fpt for @MoonRabbit on my CHINESE PICTURE QUIZ


    “It’s a dragon.

    Special because it made in ancient times? By the Xiongnu?

    Or special because it’s from Europe?”

    You are a third and a bit right. 40% right

    The correct answer is quite mind blowing

    It's an alien artifaact?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,057
    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMbulence for Donald?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362
    Tories hold desposit a tremendous success for Gorton.

    LDs continuing their shit or bust approach to by-elections.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362
    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,824

    Pulpstar said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    Is that because the Greens might get a Gorton MP, the Prince formerly known as Andrew or Constitution Hill's race at Southwell tonight :naughty:
    Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is just too much to type.

    He should be officially retitled as Ponce Andrew.

    Duke of Dork.
    Duke of Yuk.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,179

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,868

    FPT @turbotubbs Re Horizon...

    That was no doubt a factor, Turbo, and I strongly suspect that back in pre-Horizon days a lot of pilfering went on. The Post Offices were pre-eminenty cash businesses and may well have been a soft touch for dishonest owners. The PO management clearly believed this, and when Horizon was introduced their reaction would have been a perfectly understandable 'gotcha'.

    That however was only one factor in a perfect storm of misapprehensions and misdeeds contributing to this appalling scandal.

    More that the SPMs were less educated and often guilty of being a bit working class.

    So they were guilty, just by their existence.

    Much like the expats in Spain - who are all armed robbers/drug dealers from the Sweeney, so we are told.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,615

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @MoonRabbit on my CHINESE PICTURE QUIZ


    “It’s a dragon.

    Special because it made in ancient times? By the Xiongnu?

    Or special because it’s from Europe?”

    You are a third and a bit right. 40% right

    The correct answer is quite mind blowing

    It's an alien artifaact?
    It feels a bit that way
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,880
    edited 5:21PM
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do if I actually caught one. I just DO things!"
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,674
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    I think that the intention is for these tariffs to be reimposed under some other statute but the general principle of the SC decision, that this is a matter for Congress, not the President, makes this difficult.

    Its more than a bit humiliating for the GOP in Congress, many of whom had reservations but did not have the courage to take on Trump.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing automobiles. I wouldn't know what to do if I actually caught one. I just DO things!"
    He was a liar, he had some very detailed plans!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,673
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    Eleventy trillion percent tariff on gavels.

    (More likely- a fancy legalese version of "you can't stop me, I'm doing it anyway"? After all, the mechanisms that ought to stop a President in these circumstances- impeachment or the 25th- don't seem to be worth the vellum they are presumably written on.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,306
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    I think that the intention is for these tariffs to be reimposed under some other statute but the general principle of the SC decision, that this is a matter for Congress, not the President, makes this difficult.

    Its more than a bit humiliating for the GOP in Congress, many of whom had reservations but did not have the courage to take on Trump.
    Like with abortion, elected politicians wanted difficult decisions taken out of their hands.

    (There's probably a parallel with the EU in the UK too.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    I think that the intention is for these tariffs to be reimposed under some other statute but the general principle of the SC decision, that this is a matter for Congress, not the President, makes this difficult.

    Its more than a bit humiliating for the GOP in Congress, many of whom had reservations but did not have the courage to take on Trump.
    Like with abortion, elected politicians wanted difficult decisions taken out of their hands.

    (There's probably a parallel with the EU in the UK too.)
    The public weirdly support that premise, there's lots of things regarded as too important or controversial to be done by politicians (or at least which some argue should not be done by them), or else delegated out to agencies, citizen assemblies, and other unaccountable bodies.

    I shocked some people recently by saying that despite problems I trust the system and politicians to do things rather than decide things are too important for them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,615
    Fpt. I’ll answer myself as it came awkwardly at the end of a thread


    “PICTURE QUIZ

    Seen at the National Palace Museum in Taipei, today. The place whereto the Nationalists smuggled much of China’s great treasure in 1949

    It’s a pretty, typically Chinese piece of jade ornament. Why is special?”

    (You can go back and look at it to see)

    Here’s the thing. It is recognisably Chinese. It is obviously a stylised Chinese dragon. It is made of jade. It could have been made yesterday or in 1700 or 1300

    In actuality, it was made in 3500BC

    THAT is how far Chinese culture stretches back. That’s how ancient and continuous it is. It goes back, unbroken, to before the pyramids.

    Imagine looking at an artefact from Western Europe made in 3500BC and thinking “oh yeah, that’s French”’. Or “yup, typically English”. 5,500 years old

    No wonder other Asian cultures have an inferiority complex vis a vis China. They are all parvenus. Even the Japanese


  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,179
    According to the above poll Greens are a nailed on certainty.

    The Futures Bright. The Future's Eau de Nil
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649
    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219
    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    Bombing, missiles and drones are relatively easy, but when have they felled a regime on their own?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,519
    @joshuaerlich.bsky.social‬

    i have to say, i can't wait to listen to this big wet idiot call his arch conservative supermajority on the supreme court a bunch of leftist cucks

    https://bsky.app/profile/joshuaerlich.bsky.social/post/3mfcmwr2y2s23
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,253
    MikeL said:

    Mike Pence tweet:

    "Today’s 6-3 ruling by the Supreme Court is a Victory for the American People and a Win for the Separation of Powers enshrined in the Constitution of the United States.

    In Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump, our Supreme Court has reaffirmed that the Constitution grants Congress - not the President - the power to tax.

    American families and American businesses pay American tariffs - not foreign countries. With this decision, American families and businesses can breathe a sigh of relief.

    I’m proud of the work our organization @AmericanFreedom has done on this case through our robust amicus brief program to advance economic freedom and defend the Constitution.

    With this historic decision, America can now return to the pursuit of Free Trade with Free Nations under the Constitution of the United States!"

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/2024875315068014594?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^2024875315068014594|twgr^528641cd6d855ac5751d56d3c55ff18d3f5b603f|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/02/20/trump-tariffs-ruled-illegal-us-supreme-court-china-britain/

    DoJ to launch investigation into Pence by end of the weekend?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    I think that the intention is for these tariffs to be reimposed under some other statute but the general principle of the SC decision, that this is a matter for Congress, not the President, makes this difficult.

    Its more than a bit humiliating for the GOP in Congress, many of whom had reservations but did not have the courage to take on Trump.
    Humiliation doesn't work on them anymore however.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,057

    MikeL said:

    Mike Pence tweet:

    "Today’s 6-3 ruling by the Supreme Court is a Victory for the American People and a Win for the Separation of Powers enshrined in the Constitution of the United States.

    In Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump, our Supreme Court has reaffirmed that the Constitution grants Congress - not the President - the power to tax.

    American families and American businesses pay American tariffs - not foreign countries. With this decision, American families and businesses can breathe a sigh of relief.

    I’m proud of the work our organization @AmericanFreedom has done on this case through our robust amicus brief program to advance economic freedom and defend the Constitution.

    With this historic decision, America can now return to the pursuit of Free Trade with Free Nations under the Constitution of the United States!"

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/2024875315068014594?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^2024875315068014594|twgr^528641cd6d855ac5751d56d3c55ff18d3f5b603f|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/02/20/trump-tariffs-ruled-illegal-us-supreme-court-china-britain/

    DoJ to launch investigation into Pence by end of the weekend?
    Hang him high....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,688
    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,508
    edited 5:39PM
    I think this is a terrible poll for Reform. The combined Labour and Green vote is just large enough to put Reform into third place if it was perfectly split between them. This means the Reform path to victory relies on a perfect split in the vote and more squeezing of the residual Tory vote.

    Reform are left hoping that differential turnout will see them home. 29% isn't enough to win in a three-way split.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,057
    Leon said:

    Fpt. I’ll answer myself as it came awkwardly at the end of a thread


    “PICTURE QUIZ

    Seen at the National Palace Museum in Taipei, today. The place whereto the Nationalists smuggled much of China’s great treasure in 1949

    It’s a pretty, typically Chinese piece of jade ornament. Why is special?”

    (You can go back and look at it to see)

    Here’s the thing. It is recognisably Chinese. It is obviously a stylised Chinese dragon. It is made of jade. It could have been made yesterday or in 1700 or 1300

    In actuality, it was made in 3500BC

    THAT is how far Chinese culture stretches back. That’s how ancient and continuous it is. It goes back, unbroken, to before the pyramids.

    Imagine looking at an artefact from Western Europe made in 3500BC and thinking “oh yeah, that’s French”’. Or “yup, typically English”. 5,500 years old

    No wonder other Asian cultures have an inferiority complex vis a vis China. They are all parvenus. Even the Japanese


    It would probably have taken a million man hours to craft. Jade being 6-7 on the Mohs scale (top toughness diamond being 10).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,525

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    I don't believe regime change is on the agenda just lots of dead Iranian civilians.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,917

    I think this is a terrible poll for Reform. The combined Labour and Green vote is just large enough to put Reform into third place if it was perfectly split between them. This means the Reform path to victory relies on a perfect split in the vote and more squeezing of the residual Tory vote.

    Reform are left hoping that differential turnout will see them home. 29% isn't enough to win in a three-way split.

    Agreed. Reform are the Condorcet losers among the contenders. I think the voters will work out how to make sure they don't win.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,549

    I think this is a terrible poll for Reform. The combined Labour and Green vote is just large enough to put Reform into third place if it was perfectly split between them. This means the Reform path to victory relies on a perfect split in the vote and more squeezing of the residual Tory vote.

    Reform are left hoping that differential turnout will see them home. 29% isn't enough to win in a three-way split.

    A split left wing vote is what Reform needs, and I doubt if the Tory vote will reach four figures.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,824

    It's a strange old world where I find myself agreeing with Mike Pence.
    Politics is just utterly bizarre these days.

    Mike Pence and Liz Cheyney are our new pinups.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219

    It's a strange old world where I find myself agreeing with Mike Pence.
    Politics is just utterly bizarre these days.

    Pence is an old school Rebublican. Right wing but constitutional, which was exactly Trump's problem with him during the Jan 6 riot.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,452

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do if I actually caught one. I just DO things!"
    One is a deranged psychopathic lunatic with the blood of many on his hands, the other is the Joker.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,128
    Late afternoon all :)

    It's an interesting poll and remember with an MoE of 3.2%, it's effectively a 3-way dead-heat (bit like the 6.45 at Newcastle last Saturday when the first three home were split by two noses).

    The Greens are probably in the best position as they can now play the squeeze on Labour and Reform just haven't got the same numbers in terms of possible squeeze vote from the Conservatives.

    Plenty of undecided voters as well - Omnisis have done a Ward breakdown of their numbers which again provides campaigning material for squeeze letters, emails etc.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,615

    Leon said:

    Fpt. I’ll answer myself as it came awkwardly at the end of a thread


    “PICTURE QUIZ

    Seen at the National Palace Museum in Taipei, today. The place whereto the Nationalists smuggled much of China’s great treasure in 1949

    It’s a pretty, typically Chinese piece of jade ornament. Why is special?”

    (You can go back and look at it to see)

    Here’s the thing. It is recognisably Chinese. It is obviously a stylised Chinese dragon. It is made of jade. It could have been made yesterday or in 1700 or 1300

    In actuality, it was made in 3500BC

    THAT is how far Chinese culture stretches back. That’s how ancient and continuous it is. It goes back, unbroken, to before the pyramids.

    Imagine looking at an artefact from Western Europe made in 3500BC and thinking “oh yeah, that’s French”’. Or “yup, typically English”. 5,500 years old

    No wonder other Asian cultures have an inferiority complex vis a vis China. They are all parvenus. Even the Japanese


    It would probably have taken a million man hours to craft. Jade being 6-7 on the Mohs scale (top toughness diamond being 10).
    Yes, they emphasise that in the truly SPECTACULAR Jade galleries (I now wish I’d bought more cheap Jade in Myanmar)

    They have a Jade tri link. It’s three concentric circles of Jade so perfectly carved they all naturally swivel inside of each other without falling apart (yet not connected by any screws or metal, just perfectly carved to the nano metre). They were carved from ONE piece of Jade. Like a kind of orrery

    Made for a great emperor. Probably took craftsmen months or even years to fashion. That’s the display of wealth. Jade is so hard to work “yet I can employ men for years to make this one toy” (in pre industrial times)

    It’s a bloody brilliant museum
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,306
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    President Trump will hold a press briefing on the Supreme Court’s tariff decision at 12:45PM ET

    He'll have known about the decision for some time, I'm sure, or at least guessed it, so even he'd be a fool not to have a plan for next steps. Could be a mad plan, but a plan.
    I think that the intention is for these tariffs to be reimposed under some other statute but the general principle of the SC decision, that this is a matter for Congress, not the President, makes this difficult.

    Its more than a bit humiliating for the GOP in Congress, many of whom had reservations but did not have the courage to take on Trump.
    Like with abortion, elected politicians wanted difficult decisions taken out of their hands.

    (There's probably a parallel with the EU in the UK too.)
    I find myself wondering what’s the point of politicians, spending years climbing the greasy pole, only to avoid taking decisions.

    The point of politics is leadership.
    Surely the point of politics is to satisfy the human desire for adulation.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,868
    The margin of error is 3.2%

    Which means that we are looking, quite possibly at a three way tie.

    With added fun of differential turnout - and we don’t have a track record for Reform or the Greens to work that out.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,143
    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    It’s only a few specific tariffs overturned including the reciprocal 10% tariffs.

    I do think we did play a good hand on tariffs.

    The Lib Dem leader stupidly demanded we impose tariffs on US goods to get Trump back. It would be us picking up the tab.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649
    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,659
    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    History suggests two likely origins - Byzantium or Rome.

    (For Byzantium's last crack at this one, see James Howard-Johnston's recent masterpiece of historical reconstruction: The Last Great War of Antiquity.)

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649
    Brixian59 said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
    Next Gibraltar

    Shut the little Englanders up.

    What use is Gibraltar to us?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219
    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    It's an interesting poll and remember with an MoE of 3.2%, it's effectively a 3-way dead-heat (bit like the 6.45 at Newcastle last Saturday when the first three home were split by two noses).

    The Greens are probably in the best position as they can now play the squeeze on Labour and Reform just haven't got the same numbers in terms of possible squeeze vote from the Conservatives.

    Plenty of undecided voters as well - Omnisis have done a Ward breakdown of their numbers which again provides campaigning material for squeeze letters, emails etc.

    It isn't a dead heat, and on these numbers the MOE is 6% or so:

    Greens are 26-38%
    Reform are 23-35%
    Labour are 20-32%

    The probabilities are not equally distributed in those ranges too.

    I am a bit suspicious of some of the other figures too. Are Rejoin EU really on 2%? 9 votes in total maybe, not 9/271!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,112

    It's a strange old world where I find myself agreeing with Mike Pence.
    Politics is just utterly bizarre these days.

    The old social reactionary, war mongering, market fetishising conservative right shine like crazy diamonds compared to Donald Trump and his MAGA movement.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,688
    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,549
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt. I’ll answer myself as it came awkwardly at the end of a thread


    “PICTURE QUIZ

    Seen at the National Palace Museum in Taipei, today. The place whereto the Nationalists smuggled much of China’s great treasure in 1949

    It’s a pretty, typically Chinese piece of jade ornament. Why is special?”

    (You can go back and look at it to see)

    Here’s the thing. It is recognisably Chinese. It is obviously a stylised Chinese dragon. It is made of jade. It could have been made yesterday or in 1700 or 1300

    In actuality, it was made in 3500BC

    THAT is how far Chinese culture stretches back. That’s how ancient and continuous it is. It goes back, unbroken, to before the pyramids.

    Imagine looking at an artefact from Western Europe made in 3500BC and thinking “oh yeah, that’s French”’. Or “yup, typically English”. 5,500 years old

    No wonder other Asian cultures have an inferiority complex vis a vis China. They are all parvenus. Even the Japanese


    It would probably have taken a million man hours to craft. Jade being 6-7 on the Mohs scale (top toughness diamond being 10).
    Yes, they emphasise that in the truly SPECTACULAR Jade galleries (I now wish I’d bought more cheap Jade in Myanmar)

    They have a Jade tri link. It’s three concentric circles of Jade so perfectly carved they all naturally swivel inside of each other without falling apart (yet not connected by any screws or metal, just perfectly carved to the nano metre). They were carved from ONE piece of Jade. Like a kind of orrery

    Made for a great emperor. Probably took craftsmen months or even years to fashion. That’s the display of wealth. Jade is so hard to work “yet I can employ men for years to make this one toy” (in pre industrial times)

    It’s a bloody brilliant museum
    It’s remarkable to consider just how much the 0.1% were able to extract from the rest, once the State came into being. Most of it was spent on war, but some on incredible buildings and artworks, and yet, most of those have been destroyed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219
    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    History suggests two likely origins - Byzantium or Rome.

    (For Byzantium's last crack at this one, see James Howard-Johnston's recent masterpiece of historical reconstruction: The Last Great War of Antiquity.)

    Surely the Rashidun Caliphate?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,868
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
    Next Gibraltar

    Shut the little Englanders up.

    What use is Gibraltar to us?
    You are aware that transferring territory without the consent of the inhabitants would breach… drum roll.. International Law?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,405

    FPT @turbotubbs Re Horizon...

    That was no doubt a factor, Turbo, and I strongly suspect that back in pre-Horizon days a lot of pilfering went on. The Post Offices were pre-eminenty cash businesses and may well have been a soft touch for dishonest owners. The PO management clearly believed this, and when Horizon was introduced their reaction would have been a perfectly understandable 'gotcha'.

    That however was only one factor in a perfect storm of misapprehensions and misdeeds contributing to this appalling scandal.

    More that the SPMs were less educated and often guilty of being a bit working class.

    So they were guilty, just by their existence.

    Much like the expats in Spain - who are all armed robbers/drug dealers from the Sweeney, so we are told.
    One or two are, which enables some people to tar them all with the same brush. This was a root cause of the Horizon scandal. There were many other causes though, as we now know.

    Sir Wyn Nice-old-thing is due to report soon. Should be a corker. I don't think he will hold back.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219

    The margin of error is 3.2%

    Which means that we are looking, quite possibly at a three way tie.

    With added fun of differential turnout - and we don’t have a track record for Reform or the Greens to work that out.

    I would put the MOE at around 6% as only 271 expressed a preference.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,112

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,549
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    History suggests two likely origins - Byzantium or Rome.

    (For Byzantium's last crack at this one, see James Howard-Johnston's recent masterpiece of historical reconstruction: The Last Great War of Antiquity.)

    Surely the Rashidun Caliphate?
    Hulagu Khan, Timur, as well.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,508
    edited 6:03PM
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
    Like all mafia bosses they are offering not to break our legs and to protect us from the other mafia bosses if we make it worth their while.

    You didn't think a deal was going to be made on the basis of a level playing field now did you?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,056
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    Moonrabbit, please desist.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,519
    @drewharwell.com‬

    They're having trouble getting jurors in one of the cases against Elon Musk because "so many people hate him so much"

    https://bsky.app/profile/drewharwell.com/post/3mfcogeqo5s2i
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,659
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    History suggests two likely origins - Byzantium or Rome.

    (For Byzantium's last crack at this one, see James Howard-Johnston's recent masterpiece of historical reconstruction: The Last Great War of Antiquity.)

    Surely the Rashidun Caliphate?
    Or the Mongols.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,420
    The significant thing about the poll in the header, regardless of its accuracy, is that it gives the Greens the ammunition to spend the next week sending out a simple message: Don't want Goodwin/Reform? Vote Green, not Labour.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
    Next Gibraltar

    Shut the little Englanders up.

    What use is Gibraltar to us?
    You are aware that transferring territory without the consent of the inhabitants would breach… drum roll.. International Law?
    Who said they wouldn't be consulted

    The question is, if all your bungs from UK Exchequer are ceasing, you have a choice to make, stand on your own 2 feet, return to the UK or adapt under a new flag.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,508

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
    Like all mafia bosses they are offering not to break our legs and to protect us from the other mafia bosses if we make it worth their while.

    You didn't think a deal was going to be made on the basis of a level playing field now did you?
    The thing about this is that the same deal is also on offer from China, so cosying up to them isn't going to help us.

    The only way out that preserves British (or European) independence and freedom is to get serious about defending ourselves. Starmer is not remotely serious about that. His funding plans would see spending on British conventional military capability fall. It's a major dereliction of duty in the circumstances.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,674
    Looks set up for a serious squeeze on the Labour vote to stop Reform to me. Pretty much perfect for the Greens.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,868
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
    Next Gibraltar

    Shut the little Englanders up.

    What use is Gibraltar to us?
    You are aware that transferring territory without the consent of the inhabitants would breach… drum roll.. International Law?
    Who said they wouldn't be consulted

    The question is, if all your bungs from UK Exchequer are ceasing, you have a choice to make, stand on your own 2 feet, return to the UK or adapt under a new flag.
    The Falklands actually turn a profit at the moment - fishery licences. So that wouldn't work.

    Gibraltar is also self sustaining.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,519
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Trump is planning to “invoke new trade authorities” to bypass the Supreme Court decision on tariffs
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
    Like all mafia bosses they are offering not to break our legs and to protect us from the other mafia bosses if we make it worth their while.

    You didn't think a deal was going to be made on the basis of a level playing field now did you?
    The thing about this is that the same deal is also on offer from China, so cosying up to them isn't going to help us.

    The only way out that preserves British (or European) independence and freedom is to get serious about defending ourselves. Starmer is not remotely serious about that. His funding plans would see spending on British conventional military capability fall. It's a major dereliction of duty in the circumstances.
    Who reduced the defence budget from 2.5% to 2% and ran our Armed Services down, hollowed out to the bone for 14 years

    The Tory Party funded by Russians, PNs prostituting themselves to play tennis with Putins Oligarchs
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,519
    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    🚨 Hungary blocks the final legislative steps of the €90 billion loan for Ukraine in response to the energy dispute between the two countries.

    Reminder: Budapest agreed to exempt itself from the loan through enhanced cooperation.

    Kyiv needs fresh assistance as early as April.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 649
    DavidL said:

    Looks set up for a serious squeeze on the Labour vote to stop Reform to me. Pretty much perfect for the Greens.

    Ideal opportunity for the Labour ground battalions to get the core vote out
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,534
    If you have nothing better to do .....

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,717

    I think this is a terrible poll for Reform. The combined Labour and Green vote is just large enough to put Reform into third place if it was perfectly split between them. This means the Reform path to victory relies on a perfect split in the vote and more squeezing of the residual Tory vote.

    Reform are left hoping that differential turnout will see them home. 29% isn't enough to win in a three-way split.

    It's not quite that simple, depends on how many of the undecideds vote. As I read it, based on the head to heads, if the *NotRef undecideds split 50-50 Lab/Grn, Ref puts on votes faster than either of them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,179
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    I suspect that the chances of Trump launching military action against Iran have significantly increased.

    There's a silver lining to every cloud and if Trump can overthrow the Mullahs then at least some good will have happened from his awful time in office.
    Which country's army would you expect to march into Tehran?
    Bombing, missiles and drones are relatively easy, but when have they felled a regime on their own?
    They have a million strong army apparently.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,928
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
    Next Gibraltar

    Shut the little Englanders up.

    What use is Gibraltar to us?
    It's got secret squirrel military comms stuff on the Rock. Now mostly RAF rather than RN
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,112
    edited 6:20PM

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
    Like all mafia bosses they are offering not to break our legs and to protect us from the other mafia bosses if we make it worth their while.

    You didn't think a deal was going to be made on the basis of a level playing field now did you?
    And the other key feature - any agreement can be ditched at any time for any reason or for no reason by Donald Trump.

    He just likes saying 'make a deal' because it plays into the 'tough business shrewdie' brand he's somehow got established.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,219

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
    Next Gibraltar

    Shut the little Englanders up.

    What use is Gibraltar to us?
    You are aware that transferring territory without the consent of the inhabitants would breach… drum roll.. International Law?
    Well that would be a novelty to us as an Empire.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,508
    Brixian59 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
    Like all mafia bosses they are offering not to break our legs and to protect us from the other mafia bosses if we make it worth their while.

    You didn't think a deal was going to be made on the basis of a level playing field now did you?
    The thing about this is that the same deal is also on offer from China, so cosying up to them isn't going to help us.

    The only way out that preserves British (or European) independence and freedom is to get serious about defending ourselves. Starmer is not remotely serious about that. His funding plans would see spending on British conventional military capability fall. It's a major dereliction of duty in the circumstances.
    Who reduced the defence budget from 2.5% to 2% and ran our Armed Services down, hollowed out to the bone for 14 years

    The Tory Party funded by Russians, PNs prostituting themselves to play tennis with Putins Oligarchs
    Yes. The Tories in government let down Britain too.

    What's that got to do with it? Just because I criticise Starmer doesn't make me a Tory.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,928
    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    It is, it's still the British Indian Ocean Territory
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362
    Scott_xP said:

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    🚨 Hungary blocks the final legislative steps of the €90 billion loan for Ukraine in response to the energy dispute between the two countries.

    Reminder: Budapest agreed to exempt itself from the loan through enhanced cooperation.

    Kyiv needs fresh assistance as early as April.

    Putin's man in the EU rarely lets him down.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,549
    Scott_xP said:

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    🚨 Hungary blocks the final legislative steps of the €90 billion loan for Ukraine in response to the energy dispute between the two countries.

    Reminder: Budapest agreed to exempt itself from the loan through enhanced cooperation.

    Kyiv needs fresh assistance as early as April.

    It is my earnest wish that Orban should die in extreme agony.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,519
    @JakeSherman

    TRUMP IS UP .... On tariffs:

    The decision is "deeply disappointing and i'm ashamed of certain members of the court -- absolutely ashamed -- of not having the courage to do what's right for our country."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
    Like all mafia bosses they are offering not to break our legs and to protect us from the other mafia bosses if we make it worth their while.

    You didn't think a deal was going to be made on the basis of a level playing field now did you?
    And the other key feature - any agreement can be ditched at any time for any reason or for no reason by Donald Trump.

    He just likes saying 'make a deal' because it plays into the 'tough business shrewdie' brand he's somehow got established.
    Yes, yet his deals never seem to stick as you note, thus making them not particularly useful and him not particularly good to do business with. Many a person in politics and elsewhere has humiliated themselves as the price for a deal with him, and gotten nothing out of it. You'd want at least something concrete after sacrificing dignity.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,549
    Brixian59 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    So we have no right to tell the US not to use it to bomb Iran?
    I understand it's all 'transactional' now. Everything is about 'making deals'.

    So what is the US offering?
    Like all mafia bosses they are offering not to break our legs and to protect us from the other mafia bosses if we make it worth their while.

    You didn't think a deal was going to be made on the basis of a level playing field now did you?
    The thing about this is that the same deal is also on offer from China, so cosying up to them isn't going to help us.

    The only way out that preserves British (or European) independence and freedom is to get serious about defending ourselves. Starmer is not remotely serious about that. His funding plans would see spending on British conventional military capability fall. It's a major dereliction of duty in the circumstances.
    Who reduced the defence budget from 2.5% to 2% and ran our Armed Services down, hollowed out to the bone for 14 years

    The Tory Party funded by Russians, PNs prostituting themselves to play tennis with Putins Oligarchs
    Just because the Conservatives did not believe in defending the UK is no reason for Labour to follow their example.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,519
    @AllieRenison

    Christ Trump saying that justices on the Supreme Court have been swayed by foreign interests

    Ye gods
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,362

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Starmer's calculated if the dick can't tariff me he can feck off if he thinks he's using our Air fields.

    Tariffs were he's weapon

    Without them he's neutered.

    UK has played a blinder on tariffs, might just be about to turn diplomacy on him rather than defence mode.

    Trump can retaliate by hitting Starmer where it hurts:

    "If you think you can give away British territory, think again."
    Starmer is following the Tory plans on Chagos.

    He didn't want to throw away 12 rounds of negotiations.

    Chagos has no military significance for the UK

    It has massive significance for America, India, China.

    He should sell to the highest bidder.

    If you have something that is worthless to UK defence

    Sell it

    What military use is it to specifically the UK?
    The Chagos isn't British territory.
    We should walk away then

    Useless to us

    While we're at it

    Lease the Malvinas to the Argies with a deal on a 50% share on mineral and oil rights.

    Another useless money put on our debit sheet
    Next Gibraltar

    Shut the little Englanders up.

    What use is Gibraltar to us?
    You are aware that transferring territory without the consent of the inhabitants would breach… drum roll.. International Law?
    Who said they wouldn't be consulted

    The question is, if all your bungs from UK Exchequer are ceasing, you have a choice to make, stand on your own 2 feet, return to the UK or adapt under a new flag.
    The Falklands actually turn a profit at the moment - fishery licences. So that wouldn't work.

    Gibraltar is also self sustaining.
    Thus making 'giving' them away against their will (sorry, after 'consultation') even more pointless, since it would just turn friendly areas with legal connection into unfriendly ones without.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 1,017
    Does anyone know anything useful about greyhound racing? Or more helpfully, know a good resource (e.g. book) for me to edumicate meself? Entertaining rather than dry preferred.
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