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By the pricking of my thumbs something wicked this way comes – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,838
    HYUFD said:

    '@JohnHealey_MP
    The British public gave Keir a huge mandate only 18 months ago.

    They wanted a Labour government. They want us to deliver the change we promised. They expect us to get on with the job.

    The PM has my fullest support in leading this government and this country.'
    https://x.com/JohnHealey_MP/status/2020871328681631953?s=20

    Same hymn sheet…

    “Keir Starmer won a massive mandate 18 months ago, for five years to deliver on Labour’s manifesto that we all stood on.

    “We should let nothing distract us from our mission to change Britain and we support the Prime Minister in doing that.”

    https://x.com/davidlammy/status/2020867529065779297
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    Anything from Liz Kendall? Her twitter hss been silent for 5 days and she did get demoted after not kicking enough disabled in the head
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,544
    edited 3:27PM
    nico67 said:

    If Starmer doesn’t go now then Sarwar has just delivered an even worse result in May for Scottish Labour .

    Assuming the disaffected in his sub branch don’t take action. If Sarwar went Tonto on his own initiative without checking what backing he had, he really is more of a fckwit than I thought (and I already thought he was mucho fckwit).


  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,470
    edited 3:26PM
    Has Sarwar even made his speech?

    For the ultimate lols he should turn around now and say “I have always supported Skyr 100%, I deeply respect his work in the Kievan male modelling charity sector, it’s just malicious gossip about my speech, I was simply going to express my total reverence for our brilliant free-designer-spectacles-wearing PM”
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,594
    PMQs should be fun
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    Leon said:

    Has Sarwar even made his speech?

    For the ultimate lols he should turn around now and say “I always supported Skyr, I deeply respect his work in the Kievan male modelling charity sector, it’s just malicious gossip about my speech, I was always going to express my total reverence for our brilliant free-designer-spectacles-wearing PM”

    He has. He did call for change
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 272

    Anything from Liz Kendall? Her twitter hss been silent for 5 days and she did get demoted after not kicking enough disabled in the head

    Kendell
    D Jones
    Alexander D and a rebuke for a Sarwar latest to support
    Williams - Symonds too
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,782
    Brixian59 said:

    Crucial support from Hilary Benn together with Reed, Heidi Alexander and others.

    Verbal support from Streeting

    Nandy remains silent

    Nandy not yet strapping herself to the ACME anvil with Wile E Coyote in Number 10.

    She sees it s a LONG WAY DOWN to the bottom of that canyon.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 272
    eek said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    If Starmer goes who becomes Leader ?

    Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .

    The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
    You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
    A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
    I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
    Angela's future is in the hands of one unnamed individual in HMRC who decides whether her error was understandable, careless or deliberate. It's a judgement call. If it were clear cut it would be declared by now.

    Will the political leaning of this unnamed individual colour their judgement? They can decide who is next PM and the future of this country. What a responsibility.
    Once again we have people posting about they think HMRC works without knowing how HMRC actually works.

    Reality is HMRC are just waiting for the issue to go away which it does the day Angela Rayner’s son turns 18.
    That aside HMRC found against Boris and Sunak twice

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,468

    Leon said:

    Has Sarwar even made his speech?

    For the ultimate lols he should turn around now and say “I always supported Skyr, I deeply respect his work in the Kievan male modelling charity sector, it’s just malicious gossip about my speech, I was always going to express my total reverence for our brilliant free-designer-spectacles-wearing PM”

    He has. He did call for change
    If you've ever been to Glasgow, you'll hear that a lot - usually for a cup of tea.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 589

    nico67 said:

    If Starmer doesn’t go now then Sarwar has just delivered an even worse result in May for Scottish Labour .

    Assuming the disaffected in his sub branch don’t take action. If Sarwar went Tonto on his own initiative without checking what backing he had, he really is more of a fckwit than I thought (and I already thought he was mucho fckwit).


    Can we now start postulating the imminent demise of Sarwar? Will he last longer than Starmer?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,400
    Looks like Sarwar, who few voters outside of Scotland have heard of, has made an early entry into the biggest plonker of the year competition.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,737
    edited 3:32PM
    eek said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    If Starmer goes who becomes Leader ?

    Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .

    The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
    You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
    A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
    I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
    Angela's future is in the hands of one unnamed individual in HMRC who decides whether her error was understandable, careless or deliberate. It's a judgement call. If it were clear cut it would be declared by now.

    Will the political leaning of this unnamed individual colour their judgement? They can decide who is next PM and the future of this country. What a responsibility.
    Once again we have people posting about they think HMRC works without knowing how HMRC actually works.

    Reality is HMRC are just waiting for the issue to go away which it does the day Angela Rayner’s son turns 18.
    Charlie Rayner’s 18th birthday is 9 April 2026 so we'll soon know.
    I'm not sure it does go away. There are conflicting views on this.
    On what basis do you think it will go away? With links if possible because this is important.
  • Urgh the cabinet are insane.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,262
    I'm not sure 33.7% of the vote at 60% turnout is a "massive mandate". It's actually a pretty poor result given how clapped out the government was after 14 years and 5 PMs (including lettuce Liz). I guess it helps these Labour people sleep at night...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,724
    Nandy backs Starmer.

    It’s over.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,262

    Urgh the cabinet are insane.

    Enough of them rely on Starmer's patronage and would return to the back benches under a new PM. Boris mastered the art of this too until it wasn't enough, and I think this is probably worse than being ambushed with cake.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,872

    Urgh the cabinet are insane.

    There weren't given a choice.

    They are all weak
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,064
    edited 3:33PM
    Sarwar was right however tactically why didn’t he gauge support? I assumed he was moving with support behind him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,394
    @PippaCrerar

    EXCL: An website claiming to launch Angela Rayner’s Labour leadership campaign was published temporarily last month, prompting further speculation the former deputy PM is gearing up for contest to replace Keir Starmer.

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2020883603958198394?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916
    Only senior Cabinet Minister not to show their support for Starmer so far online or in person is Mahmood.

    Nothing from Rayner or Burnham yet either
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916

    'Lucy Powell MP
    @LucyMPowell
    I will be sitting alongside Keir Starmer at the PLP this evening as Deputy Leader with my full support.

    He and I have been discussing in recent days, and before, how we need to do better to take the fight to Reform (as we are doing in Gorton & Denton) and by showing we are on the side of ordinary people. That also means being more inclusive and collaborative in the way we work. Keir gets that.

    I very much look forward to continuing that work together as one Labour team, with Keir as our leader. I know most colleagues feel the same.'
    https://x.com/LucyMPowell/status/2020883132728135990?s=20
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 272
    Phillipson latest to support
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,274
    It was the most predictable thing in the world that every member of the cabinet would support Starmer.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,400
    HYUFD said:


    'Lucy Powell MP
    @LucyMPowell
    I will be sitting alongside Keir Starmer at the PLP this evening as Deputy Leader with my full support.

    He and I have been discussing in recent days, and before, how we need to do better to take the fight to Reform (as we are doing in Gorton & Denton) and by showing we are on the side of ordinary people. That also means being more inclusive and collaborative in the way we work. Keir gets that.

    I very much look forward to continuing that work together as one Labour team, with Keir as our leader. I know most colleagues feel the same.'
    https://x.com/LucyMPowell/status/2020883132728135990?s=20

    That's the most important endorsement yet. It was the members who voted for Lucy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,823

    Nandy backs Starmer.

    It’s over.

    Remember, this is SKS - he will always manage to do things in the clunkiest and most reputationally damaging way possible. If it is a choice between go cleanly, cling grimly on, or wait until his colleagues have backed him and then resign, making everyone look daft, you know what he'll somehow end up doing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916

    Nandy backs Starmer.

    It’s over.

    'We were elected just eighteen months ago to fundamentally change this country and improve lives after more than a decade of decline.

    The Prime Minister is right to take that obligation seriously and he has my full support as he works in difficult circumstances to deliver.'
    https://x.com/lisanandy/status/2020881389009199126?s=20
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,724
    HYUFD said:

    Only senior Cabinet Minister not to show their support for Starmer so far online or in person is Mahmood.

    Nothing from Rayner or Burnham yet either

    They ain’t coming out now, even if they had everything ready to go over the top. A united cabinet keeps him safe, while leaving Sarwar out in the cold.

    I think he is safe til May, unless the release of the vetting documents causes more problems (which it could). Even then, the cabinet are going to look pretty ridiculous if they do an about face so quickly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,394
    @PippaCrerar
    The Guardian was alerted to the website, which appeared to be under construction, by source in IT sector. It was published, seemingly by accident, on a “staging site”, before being removed from internet.

    It featured pictures of the senior Labour politician along with the words: “Angela Rayner is running for Leader to fight for working-class Britain.” It had an endorsements page, as well as a form for party members to join her campaign and list their local constituency party.

    The domain name http://angelaforleader.co.uk was registered within minutes of the apparent publishing error, at 9.48am on 27 January, with same company – Webfusion – as her official parliamentary site.

    Rayner has denied any links to the website, with her team dismissing it as a “fake” that had neither been commissioned by her, nor with her knowledge, while one ally described it as a “false flag” operation.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    We can all rest easy that the voters will now reassess their opinion of Sir Keir given his cabinets full throated support
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,379
    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    EXCL: An website claiming to launch Angela Rayner’s Labour leadership campaign was published temporarily last month, prompting further speculation the former deputy PM is gearing up for contest to replace Keir Starmer.

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2020883603958198394?s=20

    The modern equivalent of having phone lines installed. The Wayback Machine doesn't appear to have a functional copy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,470
    Brixian59 said:

    Phillipson latest to support

    It’s like Ceaucescu seeing who is the first of his comrades to sit down during the 7 hour standing ovation for the Dear Leader
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,722

    Looks like Sarwar, who few voters outside of Scotland have heard of, has made an early entry into the biggest plonker of the year competition.

    Might not be bad for him to create a breach with London ahead of the Scottish elections even if Starmer stays.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,522
    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar
    The Guardian was alerted to the website, which appeared to be under construction, by source in IT sector. It was published, seemingly by accident, on a “staging site”, before being removed from internet.

    It featured pictures of the senior Labour politician along with the words: “Angela Rayner is running for Leader to fight for working-class Britain.” It had an endorsements page, as well as a form for party members to join her campaign and list their local constituency party.

    The domain name http://angelaforleader.co.uk was registered within minutes of the apparent publishing error, at 9.48am on 27 January, with same company – Webfusion – as her official parliamentary site.

    Rayner has denied any links to the website, with her team dismissing it as a “fake” that had neither been commissioned by her, nor with her knowledge, while one ally described it as a “false flag” operation.

    The only thing Angela has done there (assuming this story is a pack of lies) is fail to forward plan her eventual campaign website
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,394
    GuidoFawkes

    Rayner comes out for Starmer as well.
    Everyone has to do it today or they look stupid.
    See how long it lasts.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,394
    @jim.londoncentric.media‬

    Sadiq Khan: "Keir Starmer was elected with a huge majority and needs to be given the time to deliver, especially given the extremely challenging circumstances he inherited after 14 years of Tory governments."
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    Ange caves
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,594

    HYUFD said:

    Only senior Cabinet Minister not to show their support for Starmer so far online or in person is Mahmood.

    Nothing from Rayner or Burnham yet either

    They ain’t coming out now, even if they had everything ready to go over the top. A united cabinet keeps him safe, while leaving Sarwar out in the cold.

    I think he is safe til May, unless the release of the vetting documents causes more problems (which it could). Even then, the cabinet are going to look pretty ridiculous if they do an about face so quickly.
    The uncertainty about revelations in the e mails and whats app messages from Mandelson's time in Washington is a ticking clock

    I would not like to be canvassing for labour anywhere at present
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,786
    edited 3:43PM
    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar
    The Guardian was alerted to the website, which appeared to be under construction, by source in IT sector. It was published, seemingly by accident, on a “staging site”, before being removed from internet.

    It featured pictures of the senior Labour politician along with the words: “Angela Rayner is running for Leader to fight for working-class Britain.” It had an endorsements page, as well as a form for party members to join her campaign and list their local constituency party.

    The domain name http://angelaforleader.co.uk was registered within minutes of the apparent publishing error, at 9.48am on 27 January, with same company – Webfusion – as her official parliamentary site.

    Rayner has denied any links to the website, with her team dismissing it as a “fake” that had neither been commissioned by her, nor with her knowledge, while one ally described it as a “false flag” operation.

    All I can see is the registration time:
    2026-01-27 09:48:23 UTC

    and the registration company:
    123-Reg Limited t/a 123-reg

    Other details are hidden. Pity.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,394
    @PippaCrerar

    Putsch appears to be over... for now
  • eekeek Posts: 32,522
    Barnesian said:

    eek said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    If Starmer goes who becomes Leader ?

    Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .

    The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
    You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
    A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
    I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
    Angela's future is in the hands of one unnamed individual in HMRC who decides whether her error was understandable, careless or deliberate. It's a judgement call. If it were clear cut it would be declared by now.

    Will the political leaning of this unnamed individual colour their judgement? They can decide who is next PM and the future of this country. What a responsibility.
    Once again we have people posting about they think HMRC works without knowing how HMRC actually works.

    Reality is HMRC are just waiting for the issue to go away which it does the day Angela Rayner’s son turns 18.
    Charlie Rayner’s 18th birthday is 9 April 2026 so we'll soon know.
    I'm not sure it does go away. There are conflicting views on this.
    On what basis do you think it will go away? With links if possible because this is important.
    Had the tax been paid it would be reclaimable on April 9th.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,400
    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    Putsch appears to be over... for now

    It wasn't a putsch. It was a random Scotsman losing the plot.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 272

    HYUFD said:

    Only senior Cabinet Minister not to show their support for Starmer so far online or in person is Mahmood.

    Nothing from Rayner or Burnham yet either

    They ain’t coming out now, even if they had everything ready to go over the top. A united cabinet keeps him safe, while leaving Sarwar out in the cold.

    I think he is safe til May, unless the release of the vetting documents causes more problems (which it could). Even then, the cabinet are going to look pretty ridiculous if they do an about face so quickly.
    Pretty sure Mahmood was down to take questions in the House early afternoon
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,663
    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar
    The Guardian was alerted to the website, which appeared to be under construction, by source in IT sector. It was published, seemingly by accident, on a “staging site”, before being removed from internet.

    It featured pictures of the senior Labour politician along with the words: “Angela Rayner is running for Leader to fight for working-class Britain.” It had an endorsements page, as well as a form for party members to join her campaign and list their local constituency party.

    The domain name http://angelaforleader.co.uk was registered within minutes of the apparent publishing error, at 9.48am on 27 January, with same company – Webfusion – as her official parliamentary site.

    Rayner has denied any links to the website, with her team dismissing it as a “fake” that had neither been commissioned by her, nor with her knowledge, while one ally described it as a “false flag” operation.

    If it's a fake then it can only have been the work of one of Sir Keir's foot soldiers, with the intention of smearing Ange as a disloyal, vain and ambitious vulture. Would they really have had the time, inclination and resources to do that?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,394
    @siennamarla

    It was in Anas Sarwar's interest to make the call now. It is probably in the interests of the PM's potential successors in Westminster not to make that call right now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,445

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    Has the newly spawned man of mystery Al Carns tweeted in support yet??
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916
    'The PM won a five year mandate from the British people just 18 months ago.

    Labour governments don't come along often. It is a privilege to serve in one and we must not waste a second.

    The PM has my full support. Let's get on with changing the country for the better.'

    https://x.com/ShabanaMahmood/status/2020884884680552886?s=20
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,594
    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Only senior Cabinet Minister not to show their support for Starmer so far online or in person is Mahmood.

    Nothing from Rayner or Burnham yet either

    They ain’t coming out now, even if they had everything ready to go over the top. A united cabinet keeps him safe, while leaving Sarwar out in the cold.

    I think he is safe til May, unless the release of the vetting documents causes more problems (which it could). Even then, the cabinet are going to look pretty ridiculous if they do an about face so quickly.
    Pretty sure Mahmood was down to take questions in the House early afternoon
    Just committed support for Starmer
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Or the documents will claim more victims and theyve decided it all happens at once
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916

    Has the newly spawned man of mystery Al Carns tweeted in support yet??

    'Keir Starmer has spent his career serving our country. Being the Prime Minister is the hardest job in politics - there are no easy days but our country needs stability.

    Integrity, duty and resilience are the foundations of serious leadership.

    The PM is a genuinely good man and has my support - and my loyalty.'
    https://x.com/AlistairCarns/status/2020882152322159069?s=20
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 272
    Leon said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Phillipson latest to support

    It’s like Ceaucescu seeing who is the first of his comrades to sit down during the 7 hour standing ovation for the Dear Leader
    No this is Starmers Istanbul moment

    3 nil down

    No surrender

    What he needs to do now is walk in to that meeting at 6pm and call out the Burgon, Long Bailey McDonnell cabal, back me or you're suspended

    Labour or not

    If he cills 20 do it now, take the hit

    Starmer purge
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,594

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Or the documents will claim more victims and theyve decided it all happens at once
    Gavin Barwell just made that point
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916
    'The recent scandal around Peter Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein was shocking - and demands that both this government and our party learn the lessons, and act on them.But the worst possible response would be to play party politics or factional games. Labour is only getting started on changing things for the better - our Employment Rights Act, renters’ rights, leasehold reform, free school meals and lifting kids out of poverty.I urge all my colleagues to come together, remember our values and put them into practice as a team. The Prime Minister has my full support in leading us to that end. '
    https://x.com/AngelaRayner/status/2020884870684094609?s=20
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 272
    Brixian59 said:

    Leon said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Phillipson latest to support

    It’s like Ceaucescu seeing who is the first of his comrades to sit down during the 7 hour standing ovation for the Dear Leader
    No this is Starmers Istanbul moment

    3 nil down

    No surrender

    What he needs to do now is walk in to that meeting at 6pm and call out the Burgon, Long Bailey McDonnell cabal, back me or you're suspended

    Labour or not

    If he cills 20 do it now, take the hit

    Starmer purge
    Culls
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    If Dicky Burgon tweets out support im calling foul
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Or the documents will claim more victims and theyve decided it all happens at once
    Gavin Barwell just made that point
    Oh God im not in tune with Barwell?!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    Brixian59 said:

    Leon said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Phillipson latest to support

    It’s like Ceaucescu seeing who is the first of his comrades to sit down during the 7 hour standing ovation for the Dear Leader
    No this is Starmers Istanbul moment

    3 nil down

    No surrender

    What he needs to do now is walk in to that meeting at 6pm and call out the Burgon, Long Bailey McDonnell cabal, back me or you're suspended

    Labour or not

    If he cills 20 do it now, take the hit

    Starmer purge
    The beatings will continue until morale improves
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916
    There's always one though....'@RichardBurgon
    As I told the BBC this weekend, what should concern the Prime Minister greatly is that it's not just MPs on the left, but it's a growing view across the Labour Party, that his position is now untenable.'
    https://x.com/RichardBurgon/status/2020869538527547424?s=20
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    HYUFD said:

    There's always one though....'@RichardBurgon
    As I told the BBC this weekend, what should concern the Prime Minister greatly is that it's not just MPs on the left, but it's a growing view across the Labour Party, that his position is now untenable.'
    https://x.com/RichardBurgon/status/2020869538527547424?s=20

    Yay Dicky!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,400

    If Dicky Burgon tweets out support im calling foul

    Apparently, Farage has beaten him to it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,782

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    May is now going to be REALLY bad. But none of them will take any responsibility.

    "It was Starmer. He did it. All of it. On his own..."
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,823
    Leon said:

    Brixian59 said:

    There has to be a very uneasy feeling, when just like with Boris, Truss, Rishi and now Starmer a view that in the 24 hour media age, media drives the narrative not the elected politicians

    It didn't used to be like this.

    Will we ever see another 5 year term for any Party Leader as PM again.

    Like sports journalists bating for a goal, a wicket, a knock out, an eagle a try, they seek to make to force the agenda not report it.

    It is very frightening and getting worse.

    It will blight all party's and all politicians unless it is curbed.

    There is a fine line between free speech and anarchy

    It's not a game.

    Er, you’re new here, so we will forgive you

    But be in no doubt, we LIVE for days like this, on PB. Days like this are what make the boring days bearable, the days when we get up and the biggest news is a narrow Lib Dem council by election loss in Ebbw Vale (south)

    Every so often we get a UK general election, a US prez election, or a UK leader putsch. And in that order those are the things that turn us on, here in the snug at Ye Olde PB Arms

    Personally I find the boring days delightfully bearable. The days when we argue about which county had the best flag or lament the declining quality of supermarket tannoy announcements or get stuck yet again in the (Trains U Sex) bit of the Venn diagram. Vignettes on architecture, urban planning, cricket. Incredibly precise points of detail on the English language.

    ISTR my first foray BTL was on the subject of cheese.

    OTOH, until this afternoon I was unaware of that quote from Macbeth. I've been to Birnam Wood. Once you got away from the railway line it felt like something from fantasy; deer frolicking away from you, birds of prey circling. I had no idea it was in Shakespeare but it seems apt.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,916
    'Child poverty, soaring rents and endless war.

    Yes, Keir Starmer should resign, but unless we replace our rotten political system, nothing will change.

    We need a new kind of politics. One that takes on the rich and powerful to build a dignified society for all.'
    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/2020880873537560883?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,262

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Maybe but they've all just said he won a "five year" mandate which will be just as true after a shitty set of results in the locals.

    He's here until 2029 and will lead Labour into the next election IMO.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,724
    So, "where do we go from here? The battle's done and we kinda won, so we sound our victory cheer"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,274
    Brixian59 said:

    There has to be a very uneasy feeling, when just like with Boris, Truss, Rishi and now Starmer a view that in the 24 hour media age, media drives the narrative not the elected politicians

    It didn't used to be like this.

    Will we ever see another 5 year term for any Party Leader as PM again.

    Like sports journalists bating for a goal, a wicket, a knock out, an eagle a try, they seek to make to force the agenda not report it.

    It is very frightening and getting worse.

    It will blight all party's and all politicians unless it is curbed.

    There is a fine line between free speech and anarchy

    It's not a game.

    A country gets the political culture it deserves. Many PMs in a short time is probably happening because it reflects the general impatience of the population today compared to 30 or 40 years ago.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    edited 3:57PM
    Minister briefs off record to Hodges that theyve all been instructed to tweet support
    Nooooooo, surely not
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,394
    Labour stared into the abyss, and lost their bottle...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,262
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour stared into the abyss, and lost their bottle...

    See that bar chart from the previous thread.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,737
    eek said:

    Barnesian said:

    eek said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    If Starmer goes who becomes Leader ?

    Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .

    The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
    You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
    A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
    I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
    Angela's future is in the hands of one unnamed individual in HMRC who decides whether her error was understandable, careless or deliberate. It's a judgement call. If it were clear cut it would be declared by now.

    Will the political leaning of this unnamed individual colour their judgement? They can decide who is next PM and the future of this country. What a responsibility.
    Once again we have people posting about they think HMRC works without knowing how HMRC actually works.

    Reality is HMRC are just waiting for the issue to go away which it does the day Angela Rayner’s son turns 18.
    Charlie Rayner’s 18th birthday is 9 April 2026 so we'll soon know.
    I'm not sure it does go away. There are conflicting views on this.
    On what basis do you think it will go away? With links if possible because this is important.
    Had the tax been paid it would be reclaimable on April 9th.

    While reaching 18 can change how a trust is taxed or how assets are legally owned, UK tax law does not allow for a retrospective "reclaim" of Stamp Duty that was legally owed at the time of a property purchase.

    If you think it does, please point to it.

    NB I fully support Angela Rayner in this affair. It was very complex with a trust for a disabled son. I'm not attacking her at all. I'm just trying to understand the law.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,591
    MaxPB said:

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Maybe but they've all just said he won a "five year" mandate which will be just as true after a shitty set of results in the locals.

    He's here until 2029 and will lead Labour into the next election IMO.
    He won't because he won't want to lose his seat.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,782

    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar
    The Guardian was alerted to the website, which appeared to be under construction, by source in IT sector. It was published, seemingly by accident, on a “staging site”, before being removed from internet.

    It featured pictures of the senior Labour politician along with the words: “Angela Rayner is running for Leader to fight for working-class Britain.” It had an endorsements page, as well as a form for party members to join her campaign and list their local constituency party.

    The domain name http://angelaforleader.co.uk was registered within minutes of the apparent publishing error, at 9.48am on 27 January, with same company – Webfusion – as her official parliamentary site.

    Rayner has denied any links to the website, with her team dismissing it as a “fake” that had neither been commissioned by her, nor with her knowledge, while one ally described it as a “false flag” operation.

    If it's a fake then it can only have been the work of one of Sir Keir's foot soldiers, with the intention of smearing Ange as a disloyal, vain and ambitious vulture. Would they really have had the time, inclination and resources to do that?
    Or the organisational skills?

    Must be a really happy House, as Siouxsie would have sung.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amR6-neQBPE
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,853
    MaxPB said:

    I actually hadn't realised but Labour got fewer votes (9.7m) in 2024 than they did in 2019 (10.3m), it's pretty shocking how poorly they did in the end, a weak and divided opponent meant they waltzed in without actually winning a real mandate. It's the true source of all their indecision and inaction, no one actually voted for them. I mean more actual people voted for Jez in 2019 let alone getting anywhere near the 12.9m Jez got in 2017 or the 14m that voted for Boris in 2019.

    A much under appreciated point. Horse, once of this parish, used to bang on about how brilliant McSweeny's campaign had been. I don't see it myself. A steaming pile of horse shit would have beaten the Tories in 2014. That lack of a resounding win, coupled to the lack of any ideas of how to make Britain better, other than by not being Tories, is why we are where we are.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 53
    MaxPB said:

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Maybe but they've all just said he won a "five year" mandate which will be just as true after a shitty set of results in the locals.

    He's here until 2029 and will lead Labour into the next election IMO.
    Labour are just not very good at this. The party rule book makes it neigh on impossible.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,004

    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    Putsch appears to be over... for now

    It wasn't a putsch. It was a random Scotsman losing the plot.
    All a bit panicky and lightweight imo. I suppose the calculation is it might improve Holyrood election prospects (which I doubt) and he may as well (oh no it's that phrase again) "roll the dice" because he's looking vulnerable anyway with a bad result there. That was probably the motivation rather than some 'first over the hill' declaration expected to force Starmer to resign.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,971

    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    Putsch appears to be over... for now

    It wasn't a putsch. It was a random Scotsman losing the plot.
    Translation: gaining the plot
  • Jim_the_LurkerJim_the_Lurker Posts: 250

    Minister briefs off record to Hodges that theyve all been instructed to tweet support
    Nooooooo, surely not

    What on earth would we do without such insightful reporting from Mr Hodges.

    In these games they always get asked - it is whether they do or don’t that is at issue (and if they do - do they change the language / nature of the requested post, or leave it until the last moment).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171

    MaxPB said:

    I actually hadn't realised but Labour got fewer votes (9.7m) in 2024 than they did in 2019 (10.3m), it's pretty shocking how poorly they did in the end, a weak and divided opponent meant they waltzed in without actually winning a real mandate. It's the true source of all their indecision and inaction, no one actually voted for them. I mean more actual people voted for Jez in 2019 let alone getting anywhere near the 12.9m Jez got in 2017 or the 14m that voted for Boris in 2019.

    A much under appreciated point. Horse, once of this parish, used to bang on about how brilliant McSweeny's campaign had been. I don't see it myself. A steaming pile of horse shit would have beaten the Tories in 2014. That lack of a resounding win, coupled to the lack of any ideas of how to make Britain better, other than by not being Tories, is why we are where we are.
    They blew a 25 point lead down to 10 points against the DDay Gamblegate 14 years squad
    Hes no genius
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,724
    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,971
    I mean what is Kemi going to choose to ask at PMQs. It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,110

    Wes Streeting backs Starmer

    If this is the winter of their discontent God help them!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171

    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.

    Losing every council mathematically possible to lose in May looms
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 270
    Not really seen the Scottish Labour leader speak before today. He's about as impressive as Starmer on the communication front. Stilted and dreary.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,544

    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.

    Sarwar is a donut.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,643
    Barnesian said:

    eek said:

    Barnesian said:

    eek said:

    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    If Starmer goes who becomes Leader ?

    Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .

    The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
    You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
    A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
    I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
    Angela's future is in the hands of one unnamed individual in HMRC who decides whether her error was understandable, careless or deliberate. It's a judgement call. If it were clear cut it would be declared by now.

    Will the political leaning of this unnamed individual colour their judgement? They can decide who is next PM and the future of this country. What a responsibility.
    Once again we have people posting about they think HMRC works without knowing how HMRC actually works.

    Reality is HMRC are just waiting for the issue to go away which it does the day Angela Rayner’s son turns 18.
    Charlie Rayner’s 18th birthday is 9 April 2026 so we'll soon know.
    I'm not sure it does go away. There are conflicting views on this.
    On what basis do you think it will go away? With links if possible because this is important.
    Had the tax been paid it would be reclaimable on April 9th.

    While reaching 18 can change how a trust is taxed or how assets are legally owned, UK tax law does not allow for a retrospective "reclaim" of Stamp Duty that was legally owed at the time of a property purchase.

    If you think it does, please point to it.

    NB I fully support Angela Rayner in this affair. It was very complex with a trust for a disabled son. I'm not attacking her at all. I'm just trying to understand the law.
    If only Angela Rayner had known someone with power in politics.

    Then they could have legislated to reduce the complexity for trusts for those with disabled children/dependents.

    Fix the problem for everyone else.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    Labour 4th in Wales and Scotland would be the icing now
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,004

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Which Starmer also wants. So there you go. May at the earliest for him to resign IMO. And it hasn't happened until it's happened, all chants of "toast" and "it's over" and "endgame" notwithstanding.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,971

    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.

    Sarwar is a donut.
    Doughnut.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,643

    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.

    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.

    Please do not compare Starmer to Donuts.

    Adm. Donuts was a horrible human being. Just read up on his order for the execution of soldiers after the war was over. For the crime of celebrating the war was over.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,712
    FPT: After WW II, Stalin tried to reduce the Soviet Union's demographic problems (for which he was largely reponsible). He did three things that I can recall from my long-ago reading on that period:
    1. He made it easier for unwed mothers to have children, put them in orphanages -- and then retrieve them later, when their lives had improved.
    2. He honored "hero mothers". (As I recall, having ten children made you a hero.)
    3. He increased taxes on men who were still single, after the age of 25.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,774

    Minister briefs off record to Hodges that theyve all been instructed to tweet support
    Nooooooo, surely not

    I mean that's the game isn't it?

    Once the first shot is fired, you either need to keep shooting until the king is dead. Or you need to put your gun away and retreat back to the barracks.

    I think we need a new event to prompt any new attempt. And I don't think a by-election loss or local elections losses will be sufficient.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,657
    HYUFD said:

    'Child poverty, soaring rents and endless war.

    Yes, Keir Starmer should resign, but unless we replace our rotten political system, nothing will change.

    We need a new kind of politics. One that takes on the rich and powerful to build a dignified society for all.'
    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/2020880873537560883?s=20

    Maybe he should try to form a new political party standing for that.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,731

    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.

    Losing every council mathematically possible to lose in May looms
    Just as well all those labour councils, totally independently and not at all pushed by the govt, decided to ask for local elections to be postponed. All for a great reason. To prevent a bloodbath of labour councils.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,594
    kinabalu said:

    Ange caves

    They’ve all decided they want Starmer to take the blame for May.
    Which Starmer also wants. So there you go. May at the earliest for him to resign IMO. And it hasn't happened until it's happened, all chants of "toast" and "it's over" and "endgame" notwithstanding.
    It all depends on the investigation into the vetting and what comes out
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,274
    So we have to wait for Gorton and Denton?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,171
    Taz said:

    What's next?
    1. Labour are fucked in Scotland. Had Sarwar led the movement to oust Starmer he would have been in a fantastic position going into the election. Instead, he's fucked and the party's fucked. How on earth can any senior people come up and campaign alongside him? The jibe about branch office starts to ring true - he's in opposition to his own government kinda.

    2. Starmer will get banged into the room by the PLP tonight who will judge that even if they want him gone there is no mechanism to do so with the cabinet corralled into alignment. He's either safe until after May, or something totally abhorrent will surface. In which case he goes but anyone looking to take over from him is similarly tainted now. No "we didn't know" because you did

    3. Like the cabinet assembled by Donitz, they will back him and he will have no power to actually deliver policy. The Flensburg government actually put forward plans for the reconstruction of a post-Hitler Nazi Germany, until one sunny morning a knock at the door and they were all arrested.

    Starmer is Donitz.

    Losing every council mathematically possible to lose in May looms
    Just as well all those labour councils, totally independently and not at all pushed by the govt, decided to ask for local elections to be postponed. All for a great reason. To prevent a bloodbath of labour councils.
    Theyve still got 33 plus the London ones up, there can still be quite the bath
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