Find Out Now looks like Ref 31 (+2) Con 18 (+1) Grn 18 (-1) Lab 16 (-1) LD 11 (=)
Edit - Reverse Con and Grn on rounding (0.07 difference though)
I expected worse for Labour given FON did that polling all yesterday .
A particularly crazy thing about recent polling is the Green vote. This varies in the last few weeks from being above the Labour vote to less than half the Labour vote. Something is going on with those being polled, pollsters and methodology. I wonder what it is.
Greens score highly (16% plus) with YouGov, FoN and Ashcroft. Less than 15% across the board otherwise. FoN have set out their approach ref Reform and 'non voters' before - the same will apply to the new boys in the anti establishment NOTA crew with them, and Ashcroft includes all 5/10 certain to vote and higher ehich may boost them (as a 'protest but not committed' entity) The Q is why YG have higher Green (and LD) than most
Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee says it cannot commit to a timetable for reviewing documents relating to Mandelson's vetting to become US Ambassador
Hardly surprising
Why should it take that long? 🤷♀️
A cynic might suggest that it will take a long time because 10 Downing Street/MI5, MI6, GCHQ etc haven't written them all yet, having just realised that this was all done on the back of a shopping list.
If it's Labour (-5) then Labour might feel that letting it drag on until March would just do more damage and make it harder to bounce back.
Find Out Now today will be post the news dominating but straddling PMQs etc, Opinium Saturday should be mostly post, next weeks YG (Tues) and MiC (Weds) will be fully after everything sinks in
My guess would be it'll make little difference. i can't see a lot to be angry about. No one likesTrump or knows what a British Ambassador does. If the problem is Starmer's judgement then they are hardly likely to seek refuge in Farage and his New Tories
One shouldn't speak for other people but I've always assumed that British Ambassadors wouldn't be selling inside national information. And I still assume that quite a lot of people agree with that.
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
If it's Labour (-5) then Labour might feel that letting it drag on until March would just do more damage and make it harder to bounce back.
Find Out Now today will be post the news dominating but straddling PMQs etc, Opinium Saturday should be mostly post, next weeks YG (Tues) and MiC (Weds) will be fully after everything sinks in
My guess would be it'll make little difference. i can't see a lot to be angry about. No one likesTrump or knows what a British Ambassador does. If the problem is Starmer's judgement then they are hardly likely to seek refuge in Farage and his New Tories
Probably. Might kill off the mini revival Labour were on though.
It'll do more than that.
I still remain shocked that Farage's Trump/ Putin adjacency gains little negative traction.
That's because at least the Putin adjacency is mostly bollocks made up by his opponents. He said some slightly nice things about Putin in the era 15 years ago, when that was what everyone was doing, hoping to bring Russia in from the cold, and he (a least in every interview I've heard, and I've listened to several) takes a line on Ukraine that's a bit more hard headed than currently fashionable (essentially asking "is dragging this out interminably in anyone's best interests"), but he consistently condemns Putin's aggression.
It is indeed. And, like the Wikipedia game always gets you back to 'philosophy' (just played it with 'sea lion' to check. It works.), 'why always gets you back to a version of God or brute fact or 'it just is'.
So the 'why' question has to decide at what sort of level you want to stop. What kind of answer will count as an answer for you for now. True for three year olds. True for us.
God or it just is are lazy answers for people who do not want to admit the true answer for them at that point of "I do not know".
Science is the art of figuring out the answers to those questions. Which does not involve "it just is" or "god" as the solution.
Good luck in getting there without the aid of some stopping point.
As the atheist Bertrand Russell said: "I should say that the universe is just there, and that's all".
I gave a stopping point, which is to admit "I don't know" as the answer to "why?"
Which is entirely legitimate and then people can try to figure it out. Which may or may not be possible.
The problem is some people are too arrogant to admit they do not know the answer, so fill in the gaps with BS.
If as a number of eminent independent economists are beginning to predict inflation drops to 2% by the end of 2026, the bank of England base rate falls to low 3's allowing a few fixed mortgage rates to start with a high 2% then there will be clear blue economic sky.
With some wriggle room in the next annual budget
Starmer then needs some weather luck he didn't get in a hot and calm 2025,sone early and late rain and more typical UK weather, to reduce food inflation and reduce the boats crossing
Thats only part if the issue though as without good communication it's lost.
On international matters he could benefit from peace in Ukraine and his part in it, a resolution in Gaza and the overthrow by Israeli voters of Netanyahu takes the sting out of his perception of being pro zionist too.
Gradual step by step integration on travel and some military and trade deals are popular with a majority of the electorate.
The biggest issue is Trump but Trump is a year nearer the end of term.
McSweeney has to go Ratyner and Haigh can come back to placate the left and neuter the manc moaner
I have no doubt Starmer is a decent man. I've no doubt he is a Labour man
Come late 2027 he could with this background announce he will not take Labour in to the next GE and allow an orderly transition
I don't think he can win another GE. I'm totally convinced Labour can and will
The Mandelson story appears to be running out of steam. Those who want to use it to destroy Sir Keir need to act quickly, or he goes on and on.
The documentation will provide longer term damage. Probably well beyond Skyr and Morgan
I’m sure Starmer made an error of judgement. Why so convinced at this stage it’s fatal? We won’t get anything from “ The documentation” for weeks and months, even then it may show Mandelson proper grilled, lots of good questions, and lied through the lot of them, showing Starmer as at least being honest about his mistake, and reliable in his version of events.
Whatever we think of Starmer, and listening to him drone on today I thought he’s rubbish. But a liar?
When going for a mortgage, Mandelson was asked if he had any other debts or loans, and didn’t bother mentioning a £400,000 one. A similar shower of lies from Mandelson will get Starmer out of too much lasting damage from this mistake.
I don't often agree with you, but I think you might be right this time.
Although it would be easier for Starmer if Parliament wasn't sitting. Kemi and every other Party Leader is going to bang on about this at every opportunity for at least a couple of weeks.
The Mandelson story appears to be running out of steam. Those who want to use it to destroy Sir Keir need to act quickly, or he goes on and on.
The documentation will provide longer term damage. Probably well beyond Skyr and Morgan
I’m sure Starmer made an error of judgement. Why so convinced at this stage it’s fatal? We won’t get anything from “ The documentation” for weeks and months, even then it may show Mandelson proper grilled, lots of good questions, and lied through the lot of them, showing Starmer as at least being honest about his mistake, and reliable in his version of events.
Whatever we think of Starmer, and listening to him drone on today I thought he’s rubbish. But a liar?
When going for a mortgage, Mandelson was asked if he had any other debts or loans, and didn’t bother mentioning a £400,000 one. A similar shower of lies from Mandelson will get Starmer out of too much lasting damage from this mistake.
Because worse will come out about Epstein and friends and engulf everyone and everything around it. And the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own in any case and he ignored it
Find Out Now looks like Ref 31 (+2) Con 18 (+1) Grn 18 (-1) Lab 16 (-1) LD 11 (=)
Edit - Reverse Con and Grn on rounding (0.07 difference though)
I expected worse for Labour given FON did that polling all yesterday .
A particularly crazy thing about recent polling is the Green vote. This varies in the last few weeks from being above the Labour vote to less than half the Labour vote. Something is going on with those being polled, pollsters and methodology. I wonder what it is.
If the Greens consolidate, there is an outside chance of them being a default for millions of voters, a process similar to the Jezza mania wave, whose adherents have mostly forgotten who he was. There are such strong reasons for being anti Reform, Lab and Tory that, apart from in their LD enclave, Greens look like a default in the making.
‘ I wonder what it is”
pollsters and methodology - you answered you own question. 🙂
Does suggest a degree of fluidity between large green voting, and labours meagre scores.
We will have to look carefully at coming elections, how Green, Libdem, Labour gang up to keep the two parties of the right out.
But a great set of local elections for greens does look on the cards, I absolutely agree, whilst at the same time I haven’t a clue what sort of weird, clueless wild animal actually votes green.
I can't help wondering if one of the reasons Starmer is reluctant to release information that may 'jeopardise international relations' is because he knows there's some pretty tasty stuff about Trump in it. I can imagine an email exchange starting along the lines of: Right, who are we going to send to Washington to deal with the dipstick maniac POTUS? We need the smarmiest diplomat we can find to grease their way around the orange idiot......
Find Out Now looks like Ref 31 (+2) Con 18 (+1) Grn 18 (-1) Lab 16 (-1) LD 11 (=)
Edit - Reverse Con and Grn on rounding (0.07 difference though)
Labour's woes doing nothing for the LDs....
They seem to have fished out their pool.
I think the issue is something like this. One of the many contests is Establishment v Insurgents. (See GOTV's great article recently, for which thank you to him).
The LDs have spent about 200 years being establishment, 100 years without success except as a makeweight and, like red squirrels, the principle non-Tory party in some agreeable parts of the UK.
So their general image is Establishment + Failed. This places them in stark contrast to Greens who are Insurgent + Not Yet Failed. So in the Establishment v Insurgent race they are nowhere. Greens have an outside chance of becoming, like Reform, the top party of a political polarity. (The question gets next asked if they win G and D). LDs have zero chance of this until the zeitgeist shifts.
Those GE 2029 contests in full (for now)
Reform v Not Reform Govt v Not Govt Right v Left Establishment v Insurgent
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
I can't help wondering if one of the reasons Starmer is reluctant to release information that may 'jeopardise international relations' is because he knows there's some pretty tasty stuff about Trump in it. I can imagine an email exchange starting along the lines of: Right, who are we going to send to Washington to deal with the dipstick maniac POTUS? We need the smarmiest diplomat we can find to grease their way around the orange idiot......
I gave you a like, because that is amusing, and it certainly may have been thought.
Anyone who put it down in writing though is an idiot.
Never put down in writing something that you would not be willing to see used against you is a good rule of thumb.
Just posting this for all the male doubters on here who were so quick to write Kemi Badenoch off as so many others did David Cameron when he too became a Conservative leader in Opposition..... X The Rest Is Politics@RestIsPolitics Kemi is a fighter and not a quitter. https://x.com/RestIsPolitics/status/2019412916642914312
Times Radio@TimesRadio “I did say that Nigel Farage was doing my spring cleaning - sadly, he hasn't been thorough enough.”
Kemi Badenoch says she “knows how to deal with rodents” after a mouse was spotted in her office during an interview.
Find Out Now looks like Ref 31 (+2) Con 18 (+1) Grn 18 (-1) Lab 16 (-1) LD 11 (=)
Edit - Reverse Con and Grn on rounding (0.07 difference though)
I expected worse for Labour given FON did that polling all yesterday .
A particularly crazy thing about recent polling is the Green vote. This varies in the last few weeks from being above the Labour vote to less than half the Labour vote. Something is going on with those being polled, pollsters and methodology. I wonder what it is.
If the Greens consolidate, there is an outside chance of them being a default for millions of voters, a process similar to the Jezza mania wave, whose adherents have mostly forgotten who he was. There are such strong reasons for being anti Reform, Lab and Tory that, apart from in their LD enclave, Greens look like a default in the making.
‘ I wonder what it is”
pollsters and methodology - you answered you own question. 🙂
Does suggest a degree of fluidity between large green voting, and labours meagre scores.
We will have to look carefully at coming elections, how Green, Libdem, Labour gang up to keep the two parties of the right out.
But a great set of local elections for greens does look on the cards, I absolutely agree, whilst at the same time I haven’t a clue what sort of weird, clueless wild animal actually votes green.
Well I've voted Green recently. Basically because we don't seem to have any LibDems and the Green leader round here seems a sensible chap; the sort who, forty years ago when I was an active Lib/LibDem I would have expected to have been canvassing for.
I can't help wondering if one of the reasons Starmer is reluctant to release information that may 'jeopardise international relations' is because he knows there's some pretty tasty stuff about Trump in it. I can imagine an email exchange starting along the lines of: Right, who are we going to send to Washington to deal with the dipstick maniac POTUS? We need the smarmiest diplomat we can find to grease their way around the orange idiot......
I gave you a like, because that is amusing, and it certainly may have been thought.
Anyone who put it down in writing though is an idiot.
Never put down in writing something that you would not be willing to see used against you is a good rule of thumb.
100% this.
Mandelson was out in there in the knowledge he could link Trump and many of his cortege to Epstein.
It worked in that we got and still have the best deals on the planet.
I can't help wondering if one of the reasons Starmer is reluctant to release information that may 'jeopardise international relations' is because he knows there's some pretty tasty stuff about Trump in it. I can imagine an email exchange starting along the lines of: Right, who are we going to send to Washington to deal with the dipstick maniac POTUS? We need the smarmiest diplomat we can find to grease their way around the orange idiot......
I gave you a like, because that is amusing, and it certainly may have been thought.
Anyone who put it down in writing though is an idiot.
Never put down in writing something that you would not be willing to see used against you is a good rule of thumb.
It is indeed a good rule of thumb, and one I followed assiduously during my Civil Service days. Some folk, however, including politicians like Mandelson, seem to think nobody will ever look at their correspondence.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
Overall my judgement too is that Starmer is an honest man (of course often disingenuous as he's a politician). However that's what makes this so odd in that everyone knew that Mandelson wasn't an honest man, and even a vague joining of dots previously known paints him as much worse. So why did Starmer appoint him? Something is amiss in this picture.
Find Out Now looks like Ref 31 (+2) Con 18 (+1) Grn 18 (-1) Lab 16 (-1) LD 11 (=)
Edit - Reverse Con and Grn on rounding (0.07 difference though)
Labour's woes doing nothing for the LDs....
They seem to have fished out their pool.
I think the issue is something like this. One of the many contests is Establishment v Insurgents. (See GOTV's great article recently, for which thank you to him).
The LDs have spent about 200 years being establishment, 100 years without success except as a makeweight and, like red squirrels, the principle non-Tory party in some agreeable parts of the UK.
So their general image is Establishment + Failed. This places them in stark contrast to Greens who are Insurgent + Not Yet Failed. So in the Establishment v Insurgent race they are nowhere. Greens have an outside chance of becoming, like Reform, the top party of a political polarity. (The question gets next asked if they win G and D). LDs have zero chance of this until the zeitgeist shifts.
Those GE 2029 contests in full (for now)
Reform v Not Reform Govt v Not Govt Right v Left Establishment v Insurgent
The interesting one is whether the Tories shat the bed to the extent they have moved on from being Establishment?
Find Out Now looks like Ref 31 (+2) Con 18 (+1) Grn 18 (-1) Lab 16 (-1) LD 11 (=)
Edit - Reverse Con and Grn on rounding (0.07 difference though)
I expected worse for Labour given FON did that polling all yesterday .
A particularly crazy thing about recent polling is the Green vote. This varies in the last few weeks from being above the Labour vote to less than half the Labour vote. Something is going on with those being polled, pollsters and methodology. I wonder what it is.
If the Greens consolidate, there is an outside chance of them being a default for millions of voters, a process similar to the Jezza mania wave, whose adherents have mostly forgotten who he was. There are such strong reasons for being anti Reform, Lab and Tory that, apart from in their LD enclave, Greens look like a default in the making.
‘ I wonder what it is”
pollsters and methodology - you answered you own question. 🙂
Does suggest a degree of fluidity between large green voting, and labours meagre scores.
We will have to look carefully at coming elections, how Green, Libdem, Labour gang up to keep the two parties of the right out.
But a great set of local elections for greens does look on the cards, I absolutely agree, whilst at the same time I haven’t a clue what sort of weird, clueless wild animal actually votes green.
Thanks. Obvs there are committed Green Greens. Apart from them, it's elimination. 50% of the voters vote left of centre. What do you do?
Labour? No. Useless in government, the disappointment of the century, Gaza, Starmer, no vision, no plan, too Trumpist. SNP/PC? No. Don't live in Scotland/Wales or am a committed unionist. LD? No. No chance having tried and failed for 100 years in about 540 seats. OK if you live near a Waitrose. Jezza? Just No. Galloway? Just No.
This leaves the Greens. It's not impossible that something that simple can happen.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
“We might not like his methods” - but didn’t do the full security check to realise that these methods included a systematic betrayal of his colleagues, the government and quite possibly the national interest?
Aside from the small issue of the criminal he was involved with, that is.
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
All of this unwarranted criticism of me, well don’t be surprised to see me deploy the Farage photo in the next few days.
You know who else collected photos of politicians in their underwear?
Mandleson in his underpants? reminds me of the picture that surfaced of Chris Bryant similarly attired advertising for a long slow fuck. Iirc.. Just ugh
Find Out Now looks like Ref 31 (+2) Con 18 (+1) Grn 18 (-1) Lab 16 (-1) LD 11 (=)
Edit - Reverse Con and Grn on rounding (0.07 difference though)
Labour's woes doing nothing for the LDs....
They seem to have fished out their pool.
I think the issue is something like this. One of the many contests is Establishment v Insurgents. (See GOTV's great article recently, for which thank you to him).
The LDs have spent about 200 years being establishment, 100 years without success except as a makeweight and, like red squirrels, the principle non-Tory party in some agreeable parts of the UK.
So their general image is Establishment + Failed. This places them in stark contrast to Greens who are Insurgent + Not Yet Failed. So in the Establishment v Insurgent race they are nowhere. Greens have an outside chance of becoming, like Reform, the top party of a political polarity. (The question gets next asked if they win G and D). LDs have zero chance of this until the zeitgeist shifts.
Those GE 2029 contests in full (for now)
Reform v Not Reform Govt v Not Govt Right v Left Establishment v Insurgent
The interesting one is whether the Tories shat the bed to the extent they have moved on from being Establishment?
An interesting idea, which would explain the homelessness of millions, including this One Nation Tory. The 'right of centre' - about 50% of voters - doesn't have an establishment representative.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
Overall my judgement too is that Starmer is an honest man (of course often disingenuous as he's a politician). However that's what makes this so odd in that everyone knew that Mandelson wasn't an honest man, and even a vague joining of dots previously known paints him as much worse. So why did Starmer appoint him? Something is amiss in this picture.
Let's keep asking the main question until we get an answer.
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
The Mandelson story appears to be running out of steam. Those who want to use it to destroy Sir Keir need to act quickly, or he goes on and on.
The documentation will provide longer term damage. Probably well beyond Skyr and Morgan
I’m sure Starmer made an error of judgement. Why so convinced at this stage it’s fatal? We won’t get anything from “ The documentation” for weeks and months, even then it may show Mandelson proper grilled, lots of good questions, and lied through the lot of them, showing Starmer as at least being honest about his mistake, and reliable in his version of events.
Whatever we think of Starmer, and listening to him drone on today I thought he’s rubbish. But a liar?
When going for a mortgage, Mandelson was asked if he had any other debts or loans, and didn’t bother mentioning a £400,000 one. A similar shower of lies from Mandelson will get Starmer out of too much lasting damage from this mistake.
Because worse will come out about Epstein and friends and engulf everyone and everything around it. And the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own in any case and he ignored it
“was enough”
you sure the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough? Because No one really said and made much fuss with that information in the public domain, at the time of appointment did they?
Armed with what you say is enough, Conservative media and backbenchers actually spoke in favour of the appointment, Conservative Front bench did not pile in to attack it, or warn everyone, Which itself is very odd from something that attacks every single decision made and calls for resignations over next to nothing every ten minutes.
Kemi literally quoted a journalist at PMQs yesterday, proving she certainly knew as much as the PM at the time, but what did she actually do with that, at the time?
Most of the fuss yesterday was Starmer obviously knew much more than us, because Security Services told him. that’s now all but given up on - it’s become “ the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own” even though that’s not really what everyone else made of it all at the time of appointment, did they?
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
I refer you to a maxim that has served me well in life.
‘Never trust anyone who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.’
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
I refer you to a maxim that has served me well in life.
‘Never trust anyone who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.’
Did you once have some shoes ruined by standing too closely behind someone who could spell a similarly tricky word?
To be fair to TSE, the polling all says "18 Months", and the dates on the polling all refer to January.
It is therefore fair to say it is a snapshot from last month, when the Starmer government was 18 months old.
Can we stop bickering now?
Point of order, TSE (before I heroically and selflessly pointed out his mistake) wrote this in the final paragraph:
Today is the eighteenth month anniversary of Sir Keir Starmer becoming Prime Minister
Which is, shall we say, inaccurate.
And also, as Blanche has already pointed out, horrible English.
Nah, the OED has said the common usage of anniversary has meant in no longer means annual.
For example, in relationship, tomorrow is our third month anniversary.
*shudder* Words like violence. Who would inflict a sentence like that on the world's ears when 'tomorrow marks three months since the start of our relationship' is available?
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
During philanthropy-related discussions, of course.
See the old Victorian excuse - “I was just trying to save this young ladies soul, when I was caught in this compromising position.”
If it's Labour (-5) then Labour might feel that letting it drag on until March would just do more damage and make it harder to bounce back.
Find Out Now today will be post the news dominating but straddling PMQs etc, Opinium Saturday should be mostly post, next weeks YG (Tues) and MiC (Weds) will be fully after everything sinks in
My guess would be it'll make little difference. i can't see a lot to be angry about. No one likesTrump or knows what a British Ambassador does. If the problem is Starmer's judgement then they are hardly likely to seek refuge in Farage and his New Tories
Probably. Might kill off the mini revival Labour were on though.
It'll do more than that.
I still remain shocked that Farage's Trump/ Putin adjacency gains little negative traction.
That's because at least the Putin adjacency is mostly bollocks made up by his opponents. He said some slightly nice things about Putin in the era 15 years ago, when that was what everyone was doing, hoping to bring Russia in from the cold, and he (a least in every interview I've heard, and I've listened to several) takes a line on Ukraine that's a bit more hard headed than currently fashionable (essentially asking "is dragging this out interminably in anyone's best interests"), but he consistently condemns Putin's aggression.
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
The Mandelson story appears to be running out of steam. Those who want to use it to destroy Sir Keir need to act quickly, or he goes on and on.
The documentation will provide longer term damage. Probably well beyond Skyr and Morgan
I’m sure Starmer made an error of judgement. Why so convinced at this stage it’s fatal? We won’t get anything from “ The documentation” for weeks and months, even then it may show Mandelson proper grilled, lots of good questions, and lied through the lot of them, showing Starmer as at least being honest about his mistake, and reliable in his version of events.
Whatever we think of Starmer, and listening to him drone on today I thought he’s rubbish. But a liar?
When going for a mortgage, Mandelson was asked if he had any other debts or loans, and didn’t bother mentioning a £400,000 one. A similar shower of lies from Mandelson will get Starmer out of too much lasting damage from this mistake.
Because worse will come out about Epstein and friends and engulf everyone and everything around it. And the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own in any case and he ignored it
Do you see my point?
Not really. If this were a storm in a teacup then the PLP wouldnt have shit itself yesterday, nor would a humble address demanding full disclosure got through on the nod
I can't help wondering if one of the reasons Starmer is reluctant to release information that may 'jeopardise international relations' is because he knows there's some pretty tasty stuff about Trump in it. I can imagine an email exchange starting along the lines of: Right, who are we going to send to Washington to deal with the dipstick maniac POTUS? We need the smarmiest diplomat we can find to grease their way around the orange idiot......
Being a grotesque monster is Trump's superpower. Everyone else bends themselves out of shape to accommodate him, engaging in various shabby compromises or lies in the process. Then they get judged according to the usual yardsticks and are found guilty. While Trump has somehow established that no rules or standards govern his behaviour, and is untouchable. It is incredible, really.
To be fair to TSE, the polling all says "18 Months", and the dates on the polling all refer to January.
It is therefore fair to say it is a snapshot from last month, when the Starmer government was 18 months old.
Can we stop bickering now?
Point of order, TSE (before I heroically and selflessly pointed out his mistake) wrote this in the final paragraph:
Today is the eighteenth month anniversary of Sir Keir Starmer becoming Prime Minister
Which is, shall we say, inaccurate.
And also, as Blanche has already pointed out, horrible English.
Nah, the OED has said the common usage of anniversary has meant in no longer means annual.
For example, in relationship, tomorrow is our third month anniversary.
*shudder* Words like violence. Who would inflict a sentence like that on the world's ears when 'tomorrow marks three months since the start of our relationship' is available?
I know but what I can say most of the women I have fallen in love with are from the North West, I want the relationship to continue, I can’t tell people from Salford their language and grammar sucks.
The fact it sails through the US congress and signed off by the American President far simpler than here, tells you all you need to know about who owns “Chagos” and who owns who.
Effective immediately, we will have no further dealings, contacts, or communications with Marshal of the Sejm Czarzasty, whose outrageous and unprovoked insults directed against President Trump @POTUS has made himself a serious impediment to our excellent relations with Prime Minister Tusk and his government. We will not permit anyone to harm U.S.–Polish relations, nor disrespect @realDonaldTrump , who has done so much for Poland and the Polish people...
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
I refer you to a maxim that has served me well in life.
‘Never trust anyone who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.’
Did you once have some shoes ruined by standing too closely behind someone who could spell a similarly tricky word?
Many years I saw photographs of STDs, only seeing pineapple on pizza scares me more.
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
I refer you to a maxim that has served me well in life.
‘Never trust anyone who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.’
I'm concerned by the fact this message doesn't have an edit time on it.
Which implies you spelt it correctly on your first attempt...
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
During philanthropy-related discussions, of course.
See the old Victorian excuse - “I was just trying to save this young ladies soul, when I was caught in this compromising position.”
You could argue that sleeping with Bill Gates constitutes a philanthropic activity.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
“We might not like his methods” - but didn’t do the full security check to realise that these methods included a systematic betrayal of his colleagues, the government and quite possibly the national interest?
Aside from the small issue of the criminal he was involved with, that is.
That's the question.
That Mandy was matey with a horrible man and moved in horrible circles was known... but keeping the plates spinning sometimes requires that.
The betrayal of national interest... Occam's razor says that that wasn't known. Because if the spooks knew it, why didn't they act on that knowledge at some point in the last fifteen years?
Perhaps our spies aren't much better at picking up traitors than David Olusoga was. As a Cambridge graduate, I'm aware of some historical preced...
(At this point a shot was heard on the train to Romford. Forget that you saw or read this.)
The Mandelson story appears to be running out of steam. Those who want to use it to destroy Sir Keir need to act quickly, or he goes on and on.
The documentation will provide longer term damage. Probably well beyond Skyr and Morgan
I’m sure Starmer made an error of judgement. Why so convinced at this stage it’s fatal? We won’t get anything from “ The documentation” for weeks and months, even then it may show Mandelson proper grilled, lots of good questions, and lied through the lot of them, showing Starmer as at least being honest about his mistake, and reliable in his version of events.
Whatever we think of Starmer, and listening to him drone on today I thought he’s rubbish. But a liar?
When going for a mortgage, Mandelson was asked if he had any other debts or loans, and didn’t bother mentioning a £400,000 one. A similar shower of lies from Mandelson will get Starmer out of too much lasting damage from this mistake.
Because worse will come out about Epstein and friends and engulf everyone and everything around it. And the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own in any case and he ignored it
Do you see my point?
Not really. If this were a storm in a teacup then the PLP wouldnt have shit itself yesterday, nor would a humble address demanding full disclosure got through on the nod
The House of Commons is quite a small room; easy for hysteria to take hold.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
He rolled the dice Roger. If it had worked out and Trump had been under control until January 20, 2029 it would have been a work of genius. But it didn't work out.
Starmer is holed below the waterline and while he is PM so is Labour. Now I no longer care whether Labour live or die. But if they die we get some ghoulish collaboration between Con and Reform. The people who almost broke Britain get another bite of the cherry.
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
So when did Gates contract the sexually-transmitted disease that he then transmitted to his wife that, combined with disgust at his other activities, led to her divorcing him?
I refer you to a maxim that has served me well in life.
‘Never trust anyone who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.’
Did you once have some shoes ruined by standing too closely behind someone who could spell a similarly tricky word?
Many years I saw photographs of STDs, only seeing pineapple on pizza scares me more.
Trump: "Mike Johnson is a very religious person. He does not hide it. He'll say to me sometimes at lunch, 'Sir, may we pray.' I'll say, 'Excuse me? We're having lunch.'"
Trump: "Mike Johnson is a very religious person. He does not hide it. He'll say to me sometimes at lunch, 'Sir, may we pray.' I'll say, 'Excuse me? We're having lunch.'"
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
“We might not like his methods” - but didn’t do the full security check to realise that these methods included a systematic betrayal of his colleagues, the government and quite possibly the national interest?
Aside from the small issue of the criminal he was involved with, that is.
That's the question.
That Mandy was matey with a horrible man and moved in horrible circles was known... but keeping the plates spinning sometimes requires that.
The betrayal of national interest... Occam's razor says that that wasn't known. Because if the spooks knew it, why didn't they act on that knowledge at some point in the last fifteen years?
Perhaps our spies aren't much better at picking up traitors than David Olusoga was. As a Cambridge graduate, I'm aware of some historical preced...
(At this point a shot was heard on the train to Romford. Forget that you saw or read this.)
I knew there was a good reason for going to Anglia Ruskin rather than the older Cambridge University.
The Mandelson story appears to be running out of steam. Those who want to use it to destroy Sir Keir need to act quickly, or he goes on and on.
The documentation will provide longer term damage. Probably well beyond Skyr and Morgan
I’m sure Starmer made an error of judgement. Why so convinced at this stage it’s fatal? We won’t get anything from “ The documentation” for weeks and months, even then it may show Mandelson proper grilled, lots of good questions, and lied through the lot of them, showing Starmer as at least being honest about his mistake, and reliable in his version of events.
Whatever we think of Starmer, and listening to him drone on today I thought he’s rubbish. But a liar?
When going for a mortgage, Mandelson was asked if he had any other debts or loans, and didn’t bother mentioning a £400,000 one. A similar shower of lies from Mandelson will get Starmer out of too much lasting damage from this mistake.
Because worse will come out about Epstein and friends and engulf everyone and everything around it. And the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own in any case and he ignored it
Do you see my point?
Not really. If this were a storm in a teacup then the PLP wouldnt have shit itself yesterday, nor would a humble address demanding full disclosure got through on the nod
But Exactly my point. Governments and PMs have all sorts of shit themselves days. Lady Thatcher on Westland, and won General Election Landslide year later. I don’t know so much about Suez but know the party recovered to win a general election after it.
Shit yourself days are part and parcel of normal politics. I think they use the more polite phrase “Events, dear boy, Events.” Or “a weeks a long time in politics.” 🙂
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
Trump: "Mike Johnson is a very religious person. He does not hide it. He'll say to me sometimes at lunch, 'Sir, may we pray.' I'll say, 'Excuse me? We're having lunch.'"
And you point is...?
Trump has a particular way of communicating with his religious supporters.
Trump: "Mike Johnson is a very religious person. He does not hide it. He'll say to me sometimes at lunch, 'Sir, may we pray.' I'll say, 'Excuse me? We're having lunch.'"
And you point is...?
Trump has a particular way of communicating with his religious supporters.
The Mandelson story appears to be running out of steam. Those who want to use it to destroy Sir Keir need to act quickly, or he goes on and on.
The documentation will provide longer term damage. Probably well beyond Skyr and Morgan
I’m sure Starmer made an error of judgement. Why so convinced at this stage it’s fatal? We won’t get anything from “ The documentation” for weeks and months, even then it may show Mandelson proper grilled, lots of good questions, and lied through the lot of them, showing Starmer as at least being honest about his mistake, and reliable in his version of events.
Whatever we think of Starmer, and listening to him drone on today I thought he’s rubbish. But a liar?
When going for a mortgage, Mandelson was asked if he had any other debts or loans, and didn’t bother mentioning a £400,000 one. A similar shower of lies from Mandelson will get Starmer out of too much lasting damage from this mistake.
Because worse will come out about Epstein and friends and engulf everyone and everything around it. And the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own in any case and he ignored it
Do you see my point?
Not really. If this were a storm in a teacup then the PLP wouldnt have shit itself yesterday, nor would a humble address demanding full disclosure got through on the nod
But Exactly my point. Governments and PMs have all sorts of shit themselves days. Lady Thatcher on Westland, and won General Election Landslide year later. I don’t know so much about Suez but know the party recovered to win a general election after it.
Shit yourself days are part and parcel of normal politics. I think they use the more polite phrase “Events, dear boy, Events.” Or “a weeks a long time in politics.” 🙂
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
“We might not like his methods” - but didn’t do the full security check to realise that these methods included a systematic betrayal of his colleagues, the government and quite possibly the national interest?
Aside from the small issue of the criminal he was involved with, that is.
That's the question.
That Mandy was matey with a horrible man and moved in horrible circles was known... but keeping the plates spinning sometimes requires that.
The betrayal of national interest... Occam's razor says that that wasn't known. Because if the spooks knew it, why didn't they act on that knowledge at some point in the last fifteen years?
Perhaps our spies aren't much better at picking up traitors than David Olusoga was. As a Cambridge graduate, I'm aware of some historical preced...
(At this point a shot was heard on the train to Romford. Forget that you saw or read this.)
Or they were aware, but did nothing, because Mandy is in the political sphere.
Can you imagine the retaliation that Mandy would have tried to summon if the intelligence services rocked up at a House of Commons committee with that?
Punters are calming down a bit. Starmer gone by 1st April is out from a rather exuberant 3 to a considerably more sober 8.
Remember, he goes only by cabinet revolt or by 81+ Labour MPs petitioning in writing that they want a specific named individual to replace him.
Every day that neither of these things happen is a day when his departure this year remains no certainty whatsoever.
BF have 3 SKS departure markets now. Reminds me of the start of Trump's 2016 when they had a granularity of a few days. Whatever did happen to that Trump guy?
I would like to propose an alternative to renovating the Houses of Parliament.
Knock it down. Sell the land off for apartments.
Use some existing facilities to house MPs and Lords. There's the QE2 Conference Center around the corner. That would work.
There's barely more than a thousand of the buggers in total. So some hotel ballrooms are going to be big enough.
A few years of slumming it, and they might be able to come up with a proposal that costs -say- 1bn, rather than 40bn.
And then we might be able to actually finish some proper infrastructure projects.
Don't make the same mistake as we did with HS2, and keep it in London. If MPs and Lords are forced to work in Teesside it will be done in half the time.
(Teesside is roughly the same driving time from the population centre as Westminster, though double the public transport time).
Darlington is technically in the Tees Valley and already has Treasury (North) here - it also has a decent train service (London 2hrs 20) so you can see the problem
Mind you even though I live there I would prefer Parliament to be moved to Bradford (as I've said before multiple times). Because as I've said before I want to see how quickly Northern Power Rail and HS2 is fully built.
To be fair to TSE, the polling all says "18 Months", and the dates on the polling all refer to January.
It is therefore fair to say it is a snapshot from last month, when the Starmer government was 18 months old.
Can we stop bickering now?
Point of order, TSE (before I heroically and selflessly pointed out his mistake) wrote this in the final paragraph:
Today is the eighteenth month anniversary of Sir Keir Starmer becoming Prime Minister
Which is, shall we say, inaccurate.
And also, as Blanche has already pointed out, horrible English.
Nah, the OED has said the common usage of anniversary has meant in no longer means annual.
For example, in relationship, tomorrow is our third month anniversary.
*shudder* Words like violence. Who would inflict a sentence like that on the world's ears when 'tomorrow marks three months since the start of our relationship' is available?
I know but what I can say most of the women I have fallen in love with are from the North West, I want the relationship to continue, I can’t tell people from Salford their language and grammar sucks.
I remember the little trill.of excitement early in my courting of my wife when she used the words 'fewer' and 'whom' correctly. This was the one.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
He rolled the dice Roger. If it had worked out and Trump had been under control until January 20, 2029 it would have been a work of genius. But it didn't work out.
Starmer is holed below the waterline and while he is PM so is Labour. Now I no longer care whether Labour live or die. But if they die we get some ghoulish collaboration between Con and Reform. The people who almost broke Britain get another bite of the cherry.
A good way to hole Starmer below the high tide line if it went ahead?
How many holed below the waterline events does one Prime Minister need to experience before he sinks?
I think he needs to go now.
One interesting snippet from my Chagos research. One example of what happened under the Conservative 14 years in power, exploring and negotiating the inherent problems in the Chagos situation throughout those 14 years, the resettlement of Chagossians had finally been agreed in 2023 in the 11 rounds of top level negotiations the Conservative Party had negotiating this deal, but in January 2024 UK went back on that agreement. This manoeuvre in January 2024 from Cameron is interesting - because Cameron had, what they call in cop shows, “previous” on blocking return of Chagossians.
In a key earlier attempt to keep this dispute out of the international courts, Prime Minister Cameron purchased an independent report if return of Chagossians was feasible and could be done. The report said yes, return of Chagossians is feasible. But the moment Cameron decided in 2016 not to go further with this, is the moment it created certainty of UK being taken into the courts.
Although surrender of sovereignty stands out as most controversial in the deal, the arguments around the of return of Chagossians has played a crucial role over more than half a century, in getting us to where it is today. And on this particular element of it all, I’m not at all convinced it’s all over.
To be fair to TSE, the polling all says "18 Months", and the dates on the polling all refer to January.
It is therefore fair to say it is a snapshot from last month, when the Starmer government was 18 months old.
Can we stop bickering now?
Point of order, TSE (before I heroically and selflessly pointed out his mistake) wrote this in the final paragraph:
Today is the eighteenth month anniversary of Sir Keir Starmer becoming Prime Minister
Which is, shall we say, inaccurate.
And also, as Blanche has already pointed out, horrible English.
Nah, the OED has said the common usage of anniversary has meant in no longer means annual.
For example, in relationship, tomorrow is our third month anniversary.
*shudder* Words like violence. Who would inflict a sentence like that on the world's ears when 'tomorrow marks three months since the start of our relationship' is available?
I know but what I can say most of the women I have fallen in love with are from the North West, I want the relationship to continue, I can’t tell people from Salford their language and grammar sucks.
I remember the little trill.of excitement early in my courting of my wife when she used the words 'fewer' and 'whom' correctly. This was the one.
(She is from the NW, by the way!)
My wife's from the North West, too. Her accent and use of words wasn't what gave me ' little trills of excitement early in our courting'!
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
The problem here for Labour led by Starmer is the promise to the electorate was not to be Johnson or Truss.
Now I have some sympathy over why Starmer went with Mandelson. It was risky, but it might have paid dividends. It didn't.
The right thing to do from Starmer's point of view is throw in the towel. "I thought it was a risk worth taking, but it went bad. Sorry but I'm off, over to you Ange".
Imagine you are faced with an ugly poisonous monster the like of which you have never seen before but as fate would have it you have the job of mollifying it. Your country's very future depends on i! And someone say's they know just the person....... We might not like his methods but he gets results.......
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
He rolled the dice Roger. If it had worked out and Trump had been under control until January 20, 2029 it would have been a work of genius. But it didn't work out.
Starmer is holed below the waterline and while he is PM so is Labour. Now I no longer care whether Labour live or die. But if they die we get some ghoulish collaboration between Con and Reform. The people who almost broke Britain get another bite of the cherry.
Comments
Today is the eighteenth month anniversary of Sir Keir Starmer becoming Prime Minister
Which is, shall we say, inaccurate.
🚨 WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM: LAUNCHES INVESTIGATION INTO LINKS BETWEEN ITS CEO BORGE BRENDE AND JEFFREY EPSTEIN
The Q is why YG have higher Green (and LD) than most
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said he regretted 'every minute' he had spent with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and added that their association was confined to philanthropy-related discussions
https://x.com/Reuters/status/2019454723183546779?s=20
Which is entirely legitimate and then people can try to figure it out. Which may or may not be possible.
The problem is some people are too arrogant to admit they do not know the answer, so fill in the gaps with BS.
With some wriggle room in the next annual budget
Starmer then needs some weather luck he didn't get in a hot and calm 2025,sone early and late rain and more typical UK weather, to reduce food inflation and reduce the boats crossing
Thats only part if the issue though as without good communication it's lost.
On international matters he could benefit from peace in Ukraine and his part in it, a resolution in Gaza and the overthrow by Israeli voters of Netanyahu takes the sting out of his perception of being pro zionist too.
Gradual step by step integration on travel and some military and trade deals are popular with a majority of the electorate.
The biggest issue is Trump but Trump is a year nearer the end of term.
McSweeney has to go
Ratyner and Haigh can come back to placate the left and neuter the manc moaner
I have no doubt Starmer is a decent man. I've no doubt he is a Labour man
Come late 2027 he could with this background announce he will not take Labour in to the next GE and allow an orderly transition
I don't think he can win another GE. I'm totally convinced Labour can and will
Although it would be easier for Starmer if Parliament wasn't sitting. Kemi and every other Party Leader is going to bang on about this at every opportunity for at least a couple of weeks.
And the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own in any case and he ignored it
pollsters and methodology - you answered you own question. 🙂
Does suggest a degree of fluidity between large green voting, and labours meagre scores.
We will have to look carefully at coming elections, how Green, Libdem, Labour gang up to keep the two parties of the right out.
But a great set of local elections for greens does look on the cards, I absolutely agree, whilst at the same time I haven’t a clue what sort of weird, clueless wild animal actually votes green.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15530651/Fury-Green-leader-celebrating-Palestine-Action-sledgehammer-attack.html
Right, who are we going to send to Washington to deal with the dipstick maniac POTUS? We need the smarmiest diplomat we can find to grease their way around the orange idiot......
The LDs have spent about 200 years being establishment, 100 years without success except as a makeweight and, like red squirrels, the principle non-Tory party in some agreeable parts of the UK.
So their general image is Establishment + Failed. This places them in stark contrast to Greens who are Insurgent + Not Yet Failed. So in the Establishment v Insurgent race they are nowhere. Greens have an outside chance of becoming, like Reform, the top party of a political polarity. (The question gets next asked if they win G and D). LDs have zero chance of this until the zeitgeist shifts.
Those GE 2029 contests in full (for now)
Reform v Not Reform
Govt v Not Govt
Right v Left
Establishment v Insurgent
Can we really let these second rate Labour MPs who haven't had an idea between them sit in their coven speaking to any journalist who'll listen that they told him so?
I listened to the news while watching a horror film and decided I'd got this wrong. Johnson was a crook and a piece of shit and thats what he's always been. Starmer's straight. It was obvious today. Inexperienced but he's trying to do the right thing.The Labour MPs who are judging him are only interested in their own skins.
Anyone who put it down in writing though is an idiot.
Never put down in writing something that you would not be willing to see used against you is a good rule of thumb.
X
The Rest Is Politics@RestIsPolitics
Kemi is a fighter and not a quitter.
https://x.com/RestIsPolitics/status/2019412916642914312
Times Radio@TimesRadio
“I did say that Nigel Farage was doing my spring cleaning - sadly, he hasn't been thorough enough.”
Kemi Badenoch says she “knows how to deal with rodents” after a mouse was spotted in her office during an interview.
@KemiBadenoch| @KateEMcCann
https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/2019398634081501204
You go girl...
Yesterday: Starmer is finished. He'll be gone by the end of the day/week/month.
Today: we can't even agree how long Starmer has been PM for.
Mandelson was out in there in the knowledge he could link Trump and many of his cortege to Epstein.
It worked in that we got and still have the best deals on the planet.
The problem was they had no exit strategy.
Some folk, however, including politicians like Mandelson, seem to think nobody will ever look at their correspondence.
Westminster Voting Intention:
RFM: 31% (+2)
GRN: 18% (-1)
CON: 18% (+1)
LAB: 16% (-1)
LDM: 11% (=)
SNP: 2% (-1)
Via @FindoutnowUK, 4 Feb.
Changes w/ 28 Jan.
Labour? No. Useless in government, the disappointment of the century, Gaza, Starmer, no vision, no plan, too Trumpist.
SNP/PC? No. Don't live in Scotland/Wales or am a committed unionist.
LD? No. No chance having tried and failed for 100 years in about 540 seats. OK if you live near a Waitrose.
Jezza? Just No.
Galloway? Just No.
This leaves the Greens. It's not impossible that something that simple can happen.
Aside from the small issue of the criminal he was involved with, that is.
For example, in relationship, tomorrow is our third month anniversary.
Just ugh
I use Ilford station from time to time.
Why did Starmer appoint him?
you sure the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough?
Because No one really said and made much fuss with that information in the public domain, at the time of appointment did they?
Armed with what you say is enough, Conservative media and backbenchers actually spoke in favour of the appointment, Conservative Front bench did not pile in to attack it, or warn everyone, Which itself is very odd from something that attacks every single decision made and calls for resignations over next to nothing every ten minutes.
Kemi literally quoted a journalist at PMQs yesterday, proving she certainly knew as much as the PM at the time, but what did she actually do with that, at the time?
Most of the fuss yesterday was Starmer obviously knew much more than us, because Security Services told him. that’s now all but given up on - it’s become “ the information in the public domain before the appointment was enough on its own” even though that’s not really what everyone else made of it all at the time of appointment, did they?
Do you see my point?
‘Never trust anyone who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AKn-zJMIwY
Words like violence.
Who would inflict a sentence like that on the world's ears when 'tomorrow marks three months since the start of our relationship' is available?
See the old Victorian excuse - “I was just trying to save this young ladies soul, when I was caught in this compromising position.”
https://x.com/i/status/2019452309651046441
Or perhaps it was the dirty hookers giving him VD, some of whom were possibly not old enough.
Remember, he goes only by cabinet revolt or by 81+ Labour MPs petitioning in writing that they want a specific named individual to replace him.
Every day that neither of these things happen is a day when his departure this year remains no certainty whatsoever.
Effective immediately, we will have no further dealings, contacts, or communications with Marshal of the Sejm Czarzasty, whose outrageous and unprovoked insults directed against President Trump @POTUS has made himself a serious impediment to our excellent relations with Prime Minister Tusk and his government. We will not permit anyone to harm U.S.–Polish relations, nor disrespect @realDonaldTrump , who has done so much for Poland and the Polish people...
..Anyone who insults and denigrates my president is interfering in my politics!! You do not tolerate being insulted and neither will we.
https://x.com/USAmbPoland/status/2019417527504527550
(The "insult" was declining to endorse Trump's Nobel nomination.)
Which implies you spelt it correctly on your first attempt...
That Mandy was matey with a horrible man and moved in horrible circles was known... but keeping the plates spinning sometimes requires that.
The betrayal of national interest... Occam's razor says that that wasn't known. Because if the spooks knew it, why didn't they act on that knowledge at some point in the last fifteen years?
Perhaps our spies aren't much better at picking up traitors than David Olusoga was. As a Cambridge graduate, I'm aware of some historical preced...
(At this point a shot was heard on the train to Romford. Forget that you saw or read this.)
https://x.com/tobytarrant/status/2019452526093865030?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
Starmer is holed below the waterline and while he is PM so is Labour. Now I no longer care whether Labour live or die. But if they die we get some ghoulish collaboration between Con and Reform. The people who almost broke Britain get another bite of the cherry.
Trump: "Mike Johnson is a very religious person. He does not hide it. He'll say to me sometimes at lunch, 'Sir, may we pray.' I'll say, 'Excuse me? We're having lunch.'"
Shit yourself days are part and parcel of normal politics. I think they use the more polite phrase “Events, dear boy, Events.” Or “a weeks a long time in politics.” 🙂
Can you imagine the retaliation that Mandy would have tried to summon if the intelligence services rocked up at a House of Commons committee with that?
Mind you even though I live there I would prefer Parliament to be moved to Bradford (as I've said before multiple times). Because as I've said before I want to see how quickly Northern Power Rail and HS2 is fully built.
I think he needs to go now.
(She is from the NW, by the way!)
a) Who replaces him?
and
b) How do they establish the confidence of the House?
A: Because he’s only got little legs.
In a key earlier attempt to keep this dispute out of the international courts, Prime Minister Cameron purchased an independent report if return of Chagossians was feasible and could be done. The report said yes, return of Chagossians is feasible. But the moment Cameron decided in 2016 not to go further with this, is the moment it created certainty of UK being taken into the courts.
Although surrender of sovereignty stands out as most controversial in the deal, the arguments around the of return of Chagossians has played a crucial role over more than half a century, in getting us to where it is today. And on this particular element of it all, I’m not at all convinced it’s all over.