Simon Sebag Montefiore is one of the good guys. He just tweeted this. I make no apologies for its length. Everyone in the world should read it
The images emerging now from Iran of young people, older people, boys and girls, who were murdered in the last few weeks by the Iranian Islamic dictator, the Islamic Corps of Revolutionary Guards, Basij militia and imported killers from Iraq, are heartbreaking but also enraging.
Some depict beautiful people at play, at the gym, dancing, on motorbikes; some makeshift morgues full of bodies; some streetscenes where killers shoot down unarmed protesters; and many show families opening bodybags to find their dead children shot in the head; others discover bodies of protesters wounded then executed in hospital beds and particularly women with uteruses removed or other horrors to conceal brutal rapes... Many are not young but it looks like the slaughter of the best and brightest of Iran Gen Z. Ive tried to repost these here.
I have been contacted by people in Iran (who weirdly read my books in pirated Farsi editions) who manage to come online in various ways and they beg me to keep posting these images and faces and keep talking about them. Embarrassingly they thank me just for doing this! That is why i am writing this now. We must keep going and keep doing so.
The numbers killed are astonishing: based on sources within the murderous dictatorship, it may be as many as 36000 were murdered just in the first days of the terror 8/9 January and more later - making it likely that 40,000 is a horribly plausible estimate.
This makes this event the most greatest massacre in modern Iranian history by far, the greatest single event slaughter in modern MIddle Eastern history since 1900 - along with the Assad's liquidation of an entire town, site of Islamist insurgents, Hama, in 1982 when around 30,000 were killed. Both of them not taking place in wars but in cold blood - and this Iranian atrocity being far more terrible since none of the protesters were armed.
We live in a time of egregious comparisons to the Holocaust when the Holocaust is repellently abused and minimized by cynical cretins - radiohosts, podders, politicians- to criticize anything from vaccination to ICE raids. But here is a comparison that stands in its scale and horror: in size and horror this does resemble the two days of Babi Yar near Kiev in Sept 1941 where 33,000 Jews were killed. It is also worth pointing out that an entire progressive movement arose against the autocracy of the Shah.
And his was an autocracy. But in his forty year one reign, only around 3000 people were killed, mainly in the last year before his downfall.
It is very striking that the UN has barely commented on thiis…
There's only one country with the power to intervene against the murderous Iranian regime, and it's currently sending Witkoff and Kushner to negotiate with them.
But Monteviore is essentially correct; it is not hyperbole to compare the Iranian regime with that of Stalin at Katyn for example. (The Holocaust comparison is problematic, since it was different in kind.)
He is and always has been an arch Zionist. If you support Netanyahu's work in Gaza he's your man
That's perhaps what Leon meant by "one of the good guys"?
SSMontefiore is really not an arch-Zionist. Roger is, however, some weird creepy self hating Jew that loathes Israel, and therefore supports Iran, or at least doesn't care what Iran does to its own people, because Iran is anti-Israel so Iran must be good
Quite perverse
You are beginning sound a lot like how they march with Israel flags in Northern Ireland, but anti Israel in Republic of Ireland!
Surely it’s fair to not like what Netanyahu’s regime have done and not like what Iranian regime have done, without making us a supporter of the other side? We really don’t have to pick one side or the other on this, just because are usual antagonists have piled in on the other side. That’s soooo immature.
Sudan conflict is a very different thing - it’s geopolitical land and power grab rather than localism fighting for land and freedom. Foreign fighters signed up as mercenaries killing and displacing locals on behalf of regimes far away. A bit like the thirty years war in Europe.
There was an excellent programme with Mark Kermode on ' New Iranian Cinema' yesterday. It gave a much better insight into Iran than youl'll ever get reading the partial accounts of Sebag Montefiore or Leon.
Yep, it was good. I was gratified to hear an exiled young director who had started a successful restaurant in my home town of Aberdeen and had then felt able to continue his film making career. Sounds a good story for a film!
I’ve gradually warmed to Mark Kermode and Ellen E Jones, felt they were a bit too smarty pants when I first started listening but their genuinely love of and knowledge about film has won me over.
Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos: "I have no idea of the history of this land."
Warner Bros. Discovery exec Bruce Campbell: "Nor do I."
Cruz: "That speaks volumes...that neither of you are willing to say 'hell, no.'"
While I think Billie Eilish is great, I doubt her comments are going to have much electoral impact.
But she's right. The US is all stolen land.
No it is absolutely not all stolen land.
Much of the land was not previously inhabited, so who was it stolen from?
And many Native American tribes willingly sold land to settlers. How is purchased land stolen?
Some was stolen. All is just nonsense.
What parts of the US were not previously inhabited? OK, maybe bits of Alaska.
Yes, you are right some plots of land were willingly sold to settlers, although most deals were coercive or the tribes and settlers had very different ideas over what rights were being sold.
So, the US is mostly stolen land.
Also, the whole idea that you can simply rock up to a piece of uninhabited land and claim it as yours seems something of a cultural invention.
The whole concept of ownership is something of a cultural intervention.
If you can't own something nobody else owns, then what exactly can you own?
Well, there are many obvious things that nobody else owns that you can't own. The atmosphere, the sun, the stars, etc. That doesn't stop us owning other stuff.
Who has "rocked up" at the sun or stars?
Nobody. But your question was, "If you can't own something nobody else owns, then what exactly can you own?"
Given that there are indeed things that nobody owns that you can't own, then the question of what you can own is a matter of opinion.
Not really, since the context of the statement was about whether you can simply rock up to a piece of uninhabited land and claim it as yours.
Since nobody can or has rocked up at the sun or stars, those are moot to your chosen context.
The nearest star is just over 4 light years away. No one is likely to be able to go to Proxima Centauri to claim ownership.
Ultimately the CEO of any organisation faced with this extraordinary level of opprobrium would resign
Why is it different for Starmer ?
You don’t understand this politics malarkey do you?
CEO's who resign typically head off to become CEO's elsewhere... PM's who resign have nowhere good to go.
The PMs who resign are reduced to becoming millionaires through “consultancy”, non-executive roles and giving speeches.
Former Prime Minister
Years in Office
Estimated Cost per Speech
Tony Blair
1997–2007
£150,000 – £200,000+
Boris Johnson
2019–2022
£100,000 – £250,000+
Theresa May
2016–2019
£80,000 – £120,000
Gordon Brown
2007–2010
£50,000 – £75,000
John Major
1990–1997
£30,000 – £60,000
It’s a hard, hard life.
No doubt they get to make plenty of money but for some, there must be a sense of loss. You go from being the leader of a great Nation to someone who gets lots of money to talk about stuff. Not bad, but no longer the top of your game.
Oh, true. See Truss and her descent.
In the book by Dr David Owen on the mental health of leaders, he suggested that John Major was the only one truly healthy during and after, in recent U.K. history.
Because Major hadn’t enjoyed the job and was perfectly ok with not being PM.
Since then, I'd add May to the list, and (more tentatively) Sunak and the incumbent.
And that's the problem. To tweak the old joke, you probably do have to be crazy to actively want the job of PM, and to survive in the role. But that ought to rule you out from the job.
Is it Speakers who are mock-reluctantly dragged into the role? Maybe we should do the same for PMs, except for real.
Except the voters still decide if they want said MP as PM or staying as PM, not a select group of MPs or Cardinals as for Speakers and Popes
I was in Washington DC when Peter Mandelson was appointed as ambassador. There was serious dismay in the British embassy about it - not specifically because of his Epstein links, but because everyone knew he was trouble and it always ends in tears with him. Plus, Karen Pierce was a brilliant ambassador who had a great relationship with Trump’s team, and wanted to extend. It was just awful judgement by Keir Starmer and his No10 from the very get go.
It’s because Starmer thought Mandelson could sell the stupid Chagos deal. That was Mandy’s job
When the history of this bizarrely tragic government is written, a little tropic archipelago near nowhere will be oddly prominent
Why are you saying it was about Chagos in particular rather than the general perception (of SKS) that Mandelson's peculiar talents would suit working with a peculiar White House?
Seeing as both Trump and Mandelson had relationships with Epstein it may even have been that Mandy's moving in these kinds of circles was what convinced the government to make him ambassador. Trump's world is one where rich and powerful men (and they are all men) carve up the world to their benefit. Treating women and girls Ike commodities is a feature not a bug, as to these people everything is a commodity, to be bought and sold for their benefit. To my mind this is the reality that the Epstein files lay open for all to see, although really it was all there anyway for those who want to see it.
Yes, I'm afraid 'takes a sleaze to manage a sleaze' might well have been a part of it. And now look. Nothing Mandelson could have achieved in Washington is worth even a fraction of this fallout. Such a bad call.
Really? The fallout is lots of embarrassment for Labour politicians for a few weeks alongside a perhaps 10% chance that a mediocre at best PM loses their job to be replaced by another likely mediocre at best PM.
The volatility in the UK-Trump relationship includes the future of Ukraine, NATO survival and trillions in the economy over the next couple of decades.
I think the vetting angle is going to prove to be a dead end. I’m told it was communicated to those involved Starmer had decided on Mandelson, and red flags would not be welcomed. So concerns were “watered down”.
I can't at the moment quite see how Starmer can survive the Mandelson things. Even the tiniest shred of 'The Buck Stops Here' would appear to land on his desk.
(But who do centrist dads/ordinary centrists in England vote for when: Tory and Labour moral and political reputations are trashed, LDs can't win, Reform are ethno-nats, Greens are socialists fond of Israel's bitter enemies?)
Triple stabbing ought not necessitate nearly 18h of closed roads and a total media blackout.
Edit - Leicester police say it wasn't a triple stabbing.
The report I saw said a murder investigation as a result of someone being stabbed.
I presume it's a murder investigation because someone has been killed. I suppose we'll just have to wait but the lack of detail at this point is.... strange.
I can't recall many incidents like this that have had 18 h of road closures and a media blackout, but hey, the police are the experts.
Understand No10 is working to publish *some* of the docs much quicker, possibly as soon as today.
This will likely be papers they believe vindicates their position that Starmer was not aware of the full depths of Mandelson's history.
But others will take much longer to retrieve/redact.
Labour will claim the Tories are irresponsible for demanding thousands of text exchanges between officials/ministers/diplomats they say would go against the national interest.
Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos: "I have no idea of the history of this land."
Warner Bros. Discovery exec Bruce Campbell: "Nor do I."
Cruz: "That speaks volumes...that neither of you are willing to say 'hell, no.'"
While I think Billie Eilish is great, I doubt her comments are going to have much electoral impact.
But she's right. The US is all stolen land.
Even the land they acquired from its previous owners. Interesting take.
Her comments may not have any impact but the debate around them might.
Still most people here are experts on the US so I’m sure they will endlessly pontificate on it.
I thought she made a very good point and I hope it does lead to a wider discussion. It's one of the charms of PB that posters enjoy discussing the inside of a ball-bearing sometimes missing the bigger picture altogether
Simon Sebag Montefiore is one of the good guys. He just tweeted this. I make no apologies for its length. Everyone in the world should read it
The images emerging now from Iran of young people, older people, boys and girls, who were murdered in the last few weeks by the Iranian Islamic dictator, the Islamic Corps of Revolutionary Guards, Basij militia and imported killers from Iraq, are heartbreaking but also enraging.
Some depict beautiful people at play, at the gym, dancing, on motorbikes; some makeshift morgues full of bodies; some streetscenes where killers shoot down unarmed protesters; and many show families opening bodybags to find their dead children shot in the head; others discover bodies of protesters wounded then executed in hospital beds and particularly women with uteruses removed or other horrors to conceal brutal rapes... Many are not young but it looks like the slaughter of the best and brightest of Iran Gen Z. Ive tried to repost these here.
I have been contacted by people in Iran (who weirdly read my books in pirated Farsi editions) who manage to come online in various ways and they beg me to keep posting these images and faces and keep talking about them. Embarrassingly they thank me just for doing this! That is why i am writing this now. We must keep going and keep doing so.
The numbers killed are astonishing: based on sources within the murderous dictatorship, it may be as many as 36000 were murdered just in the first days of the terror 8/9 January and more later - making it likely that 40,000 is a horribly plausible estimate.
This makes this event the most greatest massacre in modern Iranian history by far, the greatest single event slaughter in modern MIddle Eastern history since 1900 - along with the Assad's liquidation of an entire town, site of Islamist insurgents, Hama, in 1982 when around 30,000 were killed. Both of them not taking place in wars but in cold blood - and this Iranian atrocity being far more terrible since none of the protesters were armed.
We live in a time of egregious comparisons to the Holocaust when the Holocaust is repellently abused and minimized by cynical cretins - radiohosts, podders, politicians- to criticize anything from vaccination to ICE raids. But here is a comparison that stands in its scale and horror: in size and horror this does resemble the two days of Babi Yar near Kiev in Sept 1941 where 33,000 Jews were killed. It is also worth pointing out that an entire progressive movement arose against the autocracy of the Shah.
And his was an autocracy. But in his forty year one reign, only around 3000 people were killed, mainly in the last year before his downfall.
It is very striking that the UN has barely commented on thiis…
He goes on in that vein. Excoriating the “progressives”
Very good. Some of us have been wondering for a while why everyone appears to be ignoring what’s happening in Iran.
I'm not ignoring it, but there's very limited information, externally we have very limited influence on events, and there's not much to say that hasn't already been said.
The regime held its nerve and tens of thousands have been brutally murdered as a result.
Perhaps some air strikes on IRGC bases just before the mass killings started might have created enough panic in the regime that it would have collapsed. That seems to have been what a lot of those protesting on the streets were hoping for when they asked Trump for help.
Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos: "I have no idea of the history of this land."
Warner Bros. Discovery exec Bruce Campbell: "Nor do I."
Cruz: "That speaks volumes...that neither of you are willing to say 'hell, no.'"
While I think Billie Eilish is great, I doubt her comments are going to have much electoral impact.
But she's right. The US is all stolen land.
No it is absolutely not all stolen land.
Much of the land was not previously inhabited, so who was it stolen from?
And many Native American tribes willingly sold land to settlers. How is purchased land stolen?
Some was stolen. All is just nonsense.
What parts of the US were not previously inhabited? OK, maybe bits of Alaska.
Yes, you are right some plots of land were willingly sold to settlers, although most deals were coercive or the tribes and settlers had very different ideas over what rights were being sold.
So, the US is mostly stolen land.
Also, the whole idea that you can simply rock up to a piece of uninhabited land and claim it as yours seems something of a cultural invention.
The whole concept of ownership is something of a cultural intervention.
If you can't own something nobody else owns, then what exactly can you own?
Land stands out as something a bit different because, in principle, anything* else can be produced in sufficient quantity that everyone can own a copy. But land ownership is strictly a zero-sum deal.
* You might counter that not everyone can own a painting by Van Gogh, but this is an interesting example because everyone can own a high-quality print of a Van Gogh - which has pretty much the visual impact of the original - but we've elevated the value of the original so that people can feel good about owning something others cannot.
I'm still waiting for the upsurge in the AI created art market which I was assuming (like Liz Truss) was going to surprise on the upside.
A guid poyum on ownership.
A Man In Assynt (extract)
Norman MacCaig
Glaciers, grinding West, gouged out these valleys, rasping the brown sandstone, and left, on the hard rock below – the ruffled foreland – this frieze of mountains, filed on the blue air – Stac Polly, Cul Beag, Cul Mor, Suilven, Canisp – a frieze and a litany.
Who owns this landscape? Has owning anything to do with love? For it and I have a love-affair, so nearly human we even have quarrels. – When I intrude too confidently it rebuffs me with a wind like a hand or puts in my way a quaking bog or loch where no loch should be. Or I turn stonily away, refusing to notice the rouged rocks, the mascara under a dripping ledge, even the tossed, the stony limbs waiting.
I can’t pretend it gets sick for me in my absence, though I get sick for it. Yet I love it with special gratitude,since it sends me no letters, is never jealous and, expecting nothing from me, gets nothing but cigarette packets and footprints.
Who owns this landscape? – The millionaire who bought it or the poacher staggering downhill in the early morning with a deer on his back?
Who possesses this landscape? – The man who bought it or I who am possessed by it?
False questions, for this landscape is masterless and intractable in any terms that are human. It is docile only to the weather and its indefatigable lieutenants – wind, water and frost. The wind whets the high ridges and stunts silver birches and alders. Rain falling down meets springs gushing up – they gather and carry down to the Minch tons of sour soil, making bald the bony scalp of Cul Mor. And frost thrusts his hand in cracks and, clenching his fist, bursts open the sandstone plates, the armour of Suilven; he bleeds stories down chutes and screes, smelling of gun powder.
All very well, until someone covers it in wind turbines.
Or an opencast mine
Indeed. The Lewisian basement must have some rare earths in it...
I think the vetting angle is going to prove to be a dead end. I’m told it was communicated to those involved Starmer had decided on Mandelson, and red flags would not be welcomed. So concerns were “watered down”.
Ultimately the CEO of any organisation faced with this extraordinary level of opprobrium would resign
Why is it different for Starmer ?
You don’t understand this politics malarkey do you?
CEO's who resign typically head off to become CEO's elsewhere... PM's who resign have nowhere good to go.
The PMs who resign are reduced to becoming millionaires through “consultancy”, non-executive roles and giving speeches.
Former Prime Minister
Years in Office
Estimated Cost per Speech
Tony Blair
1997–2007
£150,000 – £200,000+
Boris Johnson
2019–2022
£100,000 – £250,000+
Theresa May
2016–2019
£80,000 – £120,000
Gordon Brown
2007–2010
£50,000 – £75,000
John Major
1990–1997
£30,000 – £60,000
It’s a hard, hard life.
No doubt they get to make plenty of money but for some, there must be a sense of loss. You go from being the leader of a great Nation to someone who gets lots of money to talk about stuff. Not bad, but no longer the top of your game.
Indeed and ex PMs, while comfortably off, are rarely super rich ie net worth £100 million+. Only one who is is Sunak who is worth £651 million, mainly through his and his wife's shares in his billionaire father in law's tech company.
Tony Blair comes closest after Rishi at a £60 million net worth now (though his son Euan is super rich now and worth £350 million from his education tech company)
Simon Sebag Montefiore is one of the good guys. He just tweeted this. I make no apologies for its length. Everyone in the world should read it
The images emerging now from Iran of young people, older people, boys and girls, who were murdered in the last few weeks by the Iranian Islamic dictator, the Islamic Corps of Revolutionary Guards, Basij militia and imported killers from Iraq, are heartbreaking but also enraging.
Some depict beautiful people at play, at the gym, dancing, on motorbikes; some makeshift morgues full of bodies; some streetscenes where killers shoot down unarmed protesters; and many show families opening bodybags to find their dead children shot in the head; others discover bodies of protesters wounded then executed in hospital beds and particularly women with uteruses removed or other horrors to conceal brutal rapes... Many are not young but it looks like the slaughter of the best and brightest of Iran Gen Z. Ive tried to repost these here.
I have been contacted by people in Iran (who weirdly read my books in pirated Farsi editions) who manage to come online in various ways and they beg me to keep posting these images and faces and keep talking about them. Embarrassingly they thank me just for doing this! That is why i am writing this now. We must keep going and keep doing so.
The numbers killed are astonishing: based on sources within the murderous dictatorship, it may be as many as 36000 were murdered just in the first days of the terror 8/9 January and more later - making it likely that 40,000 is a horribly plausible estimate.
This makes this event the most greatest massacre in modern Iranian history by far, the greatest single event slaughter in modern MIddle Eastern history since 1900 - along with the Assad's liquidation of an entire town, site of Islamist insurgents, Hama, in 1982 when around 30,000 were killed. Both of them not taking place in wars but in cold blood - and this Iranian atrocity being far more terrible since none of the protesters were armed.
We live in a time of egregious comparisons to the Holocaust when the Holocaust is repellently abused and minimized by cynical cretins - radiohosts, podders, politicians- to criticize anything from vaccination to ICE raids. But here is a comparison that stands in its scale and horror: in size and horror this does resemble the two days of Babi Yar near Kiev in Sept 1941 where 33,000 Jews were killed. It is also worth pointing out that an entire progressive movement arose against the autocracy of the Shah.
And his was an autocracy. But in his forty year one reign, only around 3000 people were killed, mainly in the last year before his downfall.
It is very striking that the UN has barely commented on thiis…
Ultimately the CEO of any organisation faced with this extraordinary level of opprobrium would resign
Why is it different for Starmer ?
You don’t understand this politics malarkey do you?
CEO's who resign typically head off to become CEO's elsewhere... PM's who resign have nowhere good to go.
The PMs who resign are reduced to becoming millionaires through “consultancy”, non-executive roles and giving speeches.
Former Prime Minister
Years in Office
Estimated Cost per Speech
Tony Blair
1997–2007
£150,000 – £200,000+
Boris Johnson
2019–2022
£100,000 – £250,000+
Theresa May
2016–2019
£80,000 – £120,000
Gordon Brown
2007–2010
£50,000 – £75,000
John Major
1990–1997
£30,000 – £60,000
It’s a hard, hard life.
No doubt they get to make plenty of money but for some, there must be a sense of loss. You go from being the leader of a great Nation to someone who gets lots of money to talk about stuff. Not bad, but no longer the top of your game.
Oh, true. See Truss and her descent.
In the book by Dr David Owen on the mental health of leaders, he suggested that John Major was the only one truly healthy during and after, in recent U.K. history.
Because Major hadn’t enjoyed the job and was perfectly ok with not being PM.
Since then, I'd add May to the list, and (more tentatively) Sunak and the incumbent.
And that's the problem. To tweak the old joke, you probably do have to be crazy to actively want the job of PM, and to survive in the role. But that ought to rule you out from the job.
Is it Speakers who are mock-reluctantly dragged into the role? Maybe we should do the same for PMs, except for real.
I think the vetting angle is going to prove to be a dead end. I’m told it was communicated to those involved Starmer had decided on Mandelson, and red flags would not be welcomed. So concerns were “watered down”.
Triple stabbing ought not necessitate nearly 18h of closed roads and a total media blackout.
Edit - Leicester police say it wasn't a triple stabbing.
The report I saw said a murder investigation as a result of someone being stabbed.
I presume it's a murder investigation because someone has been killed. I suppose we'll just have to wait but the lack of detail at this point is.... strange.
I can't recall many incidents like this that have had 18 h of road closures and a media blackout, but hey, the police are the experts.
At some point we should get something as - fortunately - the foreign press aren't covered by d-notices, the courts, or government blackmail of editors.
I think the vetting angle is going to prove to be a dead end. I’m told it was communicated to those involved Starmer had decided on Mandelson, and red flags would not be welcomed. So concerns were “watered down”.
I think the vetting angle is going to prove to be a dead end. I’m told it was communicated to those involved Starmer had decided on Mandelson, and red flags would not be welcomed. So concerns were “watered down”.
Sorry - that just puts the onus on Starmer. He told people what he wanted the evidence to show. That's highly irresponsible.
The whole point of 'The Buck Stops Here' is that the one at the top is accountable for ensuring the competence of others and the competence of delegation in decision making. This is hard and fairness does not come into it. But being the PM is not for most of us.
So, PMQs. A critical one for Badenoch, I’d say. The goal is a mile wide. If she brings her A game (which she can do) it should be a complete walkover and helps her momentum. If she brings her C game (which she is very capable of doing) she’ll shoot 6 balls a mile wide and it’ll lower her stock.
All true
It's not her A game or C game though is it.
All scripred for her.
That shows why she can't deviate from the next question if the answer is already given.
Simon Sebag Montefiore is one of the good guys. He just tweeted this. I make no apologies for its length. Everyone in the world should read it
The images emerging now from Iran of young people, older people, boys and girls, who were murdered in the last few weeks by the Iranian Islamic dictator, the Islamic Corps of Revolutionary Guards, Basij militia and imported killers from Iraq, are heartbreaking but also enraging.
Some depict beautiful people at play, at the gym, dancing, on motorbikes; some makeshift morgues full of bodies; some streetscenes where killers shoot down unarmed protesters; and many show families opening bodybags to find their dead children shot in the head; others discover bodies of protesters wounded then executed in hospital beds and particularly women with uteruses removed or other horrors to conceal brutal rapes... Many are not young but it looks like the slaughter of the best and brightest of Iran Gen Z. Ive tried to repost these here.
I have been contacted by people in Iran (who weirdly read my books in pirated Farsi editions) who manage to come online in various ways and they beg me to keep posting these images and faces and keep talking about them. Embarrassingly they thank me just for doing this! That is why i am writing this now. We must keep going and keep doing so.
The numbers killed are astonishing: based on sources within the murderous dictatorship, it may be as many as 36000 were murdered just in the first days of the terror 8/9 January and more later - making it likely that 40,000 is a horribly plausible estimate.
This makes this event the most greatest massacre in modern Iranian history by far, the greatest single event slaughter in modern MIddle Eastern history since 1900 - along with the Assad's liquidation of an entire town, site of Islamist insurgents, Hama, in 1982 when around 30,000 were killed. Both of them not taking place in wars but in cold blood - and this Iranian atrocity being far more terrible since none of the protesters were armed.
We live in a time of egregious comparisons to the Holocaust when the Holocaust is repellently abused and minimized by cynical cretins - radiohosts, podders, politicians- to criticize anything from vaccination to ICE raids. But here is a comparison that stands in its scale and horror: in size and horror this does resemble the two days of Babi Yar near Kiev in Sept 1941 where 33,000 Jews were killed. It is also worth pointing out that an entire progressive movement arose against the autocracy of the Shah.
And his was an autocracy. But in his forty year one reign, only around 3000 people were killed, mainly in the last year before his downfall.
It is very striking that the UN has barely commented on thiis…
He goes on in that vein. Excoriating the “progressives”
It's astonishing how everything can be shoehorned into "owning the libs" if that is one's monomania of choice. It shouldn't need pointing out, but the IRGC are not centrist dads.
Yet if some random hollywood celeb posted that, leon and sandpit and mr glenn would be moaning about 'virtue signalling'.
Ultimately the CEO of any organisation faced with this extraordinary level of opprobrium would resign
Why is it different for Starmer ?
You don’t understand this politics malarkey do you?
CEO's who resign typically head off to become CEO's elsewhere... PM's who resign have nowhere good to go.
The PMs who resign are reduced to becoming millionaires through “consultancy”, non-executive roles and giving speeches.
Former Prime Minister
Years in Office
Estimated Cost per Speech
Tony Blair
1997–2007
£150,000 – £200,000+
Boris Johnson
2019–2022
£100,000 – £250,000+
Theresa May
2016–2019
£80,000 – £120,000
Gordon Brown
2007–2010
£50,000 – £75,000
John Major
1990–1997
£30,000 – £60,000
It’s a hard, hard life.
No doubt they get to make plenty of money but for some, there must be a sense of loss. You go from being the leader of a great Nation to someone who gets lots of money to talk about stuff. Not bad, but no longer the top of your game.
Oh, true. See Truss and her descent.
In the book by Dr David Owen on the mental health of leaders, he suggested that John Major was the only one truly healthy during and after, in recent U.K. history.
Because Major hadn’t enjoyed the job and was perfectly ok with not being PM.
Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos: "I have no idea of the history of this land."
Warner Bros. Discovery exec Bruce Campbell: "Nor do I."
Cruz: "That speaks volumes...that neither of you are willing to say 'hell, no.'"
While I think Billie Eilish is great, I doubt her comments are going to have much electoral impact.
But she's right. The US is all stolen land.
Even the land they acquired from its previous owners. Interesting take.
Her comments may not have any impact but the debate around them might.
Still most people here are experts on the US so I’m sure they will endlessly pontificate on it.
I thought she made a very good point and I hope it does lead to a wider discussion. It's one of the charms of PB that posters enjoy discussing the inside of a ball-bearing sometimes missing the bigger picture altogether
Go back far enough and all land is stolen. What's the point?
I think the vetting angle is going to prove to be a dead end. I’m told it was communicated to those involved Starmer had decided on Mandelson, and red flags would not be welcomed. So concerns were “watered down”.
Triple stabbing ought not necessitate nearly 18h of closed roads and a total media blackout.
Edit - Leicester police say it wasn't a triple stabbing.
The report I saw said a murder investigation as a result of someone being stabbed.
I presume it's a murder investigation because someone has been killed. I suppose we'll just have to wait but the lack of detail at this point is.... strange.
I can't recall many incidents like this that have had 18 h of road closures and a media blackout, but hey, the police are the experts.
Just tell people what you know, and what you want them to do (or not do). Something like:
"Police are investigating a stabbing incident at x place, at y time. A man in his approx age has been arrested and is helping police with their inquiries. We are not looking for anyone else in connection with this incident at this time. Police have cordoned off area x + dx in order to gather evidence and the public are asked to avoid this area at this time. Anyone in this area at y time who thinks they might have any information relating to this incident is asked to contact police at z number/police station. Police will be making a further statement with more information at t hours."
The Simon Sebag Montefiore piece is in line with other reports trickling out of Iran and it may well be the final death toll from the regime's brutal crackdown will never be known.
Was there a window of opportunity when targeted American strikes on the Revolutionary Guards "could" have achieved something far more positive and precipitated the fall of the theocracy? We'll never know - Trump was more interested in Venezuela and the resources couldn't arrive in time.
It's not the first time we've stood by and allowed brutal regimes to slaughter their own innocents and I fear it won't be the last.
It's interesting Montefiore mentions Iraq and for all the brave words, a generation on from Chemical Ali and Saddam, it seems there are too many willing and able to kill to preserve their perversion of a faith.
Perhaps America or others will yet mete out some form of retribution or retaliation but it seems there is now no one left on the ground to follow it up but as sure as night follows day, unrest and discontent will stir again and when that happens, IF we want regime change (and we all know there are sometimes power political reasons to keep a tyrant in power), we have to be ready.
I'm left to muse on how we will react IF some of the survivors find themselves washed up on a southern English beach in the summer, getting out of a dinghy after a long and arduous journey across Europe....
There have been unofficial reports that the Iran death toll might be as high at 80,000 in recent days. Photos posted include a lot of children, young adults who were protesting, and even medical workers who did nothing more than treat the sick. As you say, it might never be known how many people have died.
It’s all very worrying, observing as I am from very close to Iran.
Simon Sebag Montefiore is one of the good guys. He just tweeted this. I make no apologies for its length. Everyone in the world should read it
The images emerging now from Iran of young people, older people, boys and girls, who were murdered in the last few weeks by the Iranian Islamic dictator, the Islamic Corps of Revolutionary Guards, Basij militia and imported killers from Iraq, are heartbreaking but also enraging.
Some depict beautiful people at play, at the gym, dancing, on motorbikes; some makeshift morgues full of bodies; some streetscenes where killers shoot down unarmed protesters; and many show families opening bodybags to find their dead children shot in the head; others discover bodies of protesters wounded then executed in hospital beds and particularly women with uteruses removed or other horrors to conceal brutal rapes... Many are not young but it looks like the slaughter of the best and brightest of Iran Gen Z. Ive tried to repost these here.
I have been contacted by people in Iran (who weirdly read my books in pirated Farsi editions) who manage to come online in various ways and they beg me to keep posting these images and faces and keep talking about them. Embarrassingly they thank me just for doing this! That is why i am writing this now. We must keep going and keep doing so.
The numbers killed are astonishing: based on sources within the murderous dictatorship, it may be as many as 36000 were murdered just in the first days of the terror 8/9 January and more later - making it likely that 40,000 is a horribly plausible estimate.
This makes this event the most greatest massacre in modern Iranian history by far, the greatest single event slaughter in modern MIddle Eastern history since 1900 - along with the Assad's liquidation of an entire town, site of Islamist insurgents, Hama, in 1982 when around 30,000 were killed. Both of them not taking place in wars but in cold blood - and this Iranian atrocity being far more terrible since none of the protesters were armed.
We live in a time of egregious comparisons to the Holocaust when the Holocaust is repellently abused and minimized by cynical cretins - radiohosts, podders, politicians- to criticize anything from vaccination to ICE raids. But here is a comparison that stands in its scale and horror: in size and horror this does resemble the two days of Babi Yar near Kiev in Sept 1941 where 33,000 Jews were killed. It is also worth pointing out that an entire progressive movement arose against the autocracy of the Shah.
And his was an autocracy. But in his forty year one reign, only around 3000 people were killed, mainly in the last year before his downfall.
It is very striking that the UN has barely commented on thiis…
There's only one country with the power to intervene against the murderous Iranian regime, and it's currently sending Witkoff and Kushner to negotiate with them.
But Monteviore is essentially correct; it is not hyperbole to compare the Iranian regime with that of Stalin at Katyn for example. (The Holocaust comparison is problematic, since it was different in kind.)
He is and always has been an arch Zionist. If you support Netanyahu's work in Gaza he's your man
That's perhaps what Leon meant by "one of the good guys"?
SSMontefiore is really not an arch-Zionist. Roger is, however, some weird creepy self hating Jew that loathes Israel, and therefore supports Iran, or at least doesn't care what Iran does to its own people, because Iran is anti-Israel so Iran must be good
Quite perverse
You are beginning sound a lot like how they march with Israel flags in Northern Ireland, but anti Israel in Republic of Ireland!
Surely it’s fair to not like what Netanyahu’s regime have done and not like what Iranian regime have done, without making us a supporter of the other side? We really don’t have to pick one side or the other on this, just because are usual antagonists have piled in on the other side. That’s soooo immature.
Sudan conflict is a very different thing - it’s geopolitical land and power grab rather than localism fighting for land and freedom. Foreign fighters signed up as mercenaries killing and displacing locals on behalf of regimes far away. A bit like the thirty years war in Europe.
There was an excellent programme with Mark Kermode on ' New Iranian Cinema' yesterday. It gave a much better insight into Iran than youl'll ever get reading the partial accounts of Sebag Montefiore or Leon.
Yep, it was good. I was gratified to hear an exiled young director who had started a successful restaurant in my home town of Aberdeen and had then felt able to continue his film making career. Sounds a good story for a film!
I’ve gradually warmed to Mark Kermode and Ellen E Jones, felt they were a bit too smarty pants when I first started listening but their genuinely love of and knowledge about film has won me over.
Simon Sebag Montefiore is one of the good guys. He just tweeted this. I make no apologies for its length. Everyone in the world should read it
The images emerging now from Iran of young people, older people, boys and girls, who were murdered in the last few weeks by the Iranian Islamic dictator, the Islamic Corps of Revolutionary Guards, Basij militia and imported killers from Iraq, are heartbreaking but also enraging.
Some depict beautiful people at play, at the gym, dancing, on motorbikes; some makeshift morgues full of bodies; some streetscenes where killers shoot down unarmed protesters; and many show families opening bodybags to find their dead children shot in the head; others discover bodies of protesters wounded then executed in hospital beds and particularly women with uteruses removed or other horrors to conceal brutal rapes... Many are not young but it looks like the slaughter of the best and brightest of Iran Gen Z. Ive tried to repost these here.
I have been contacted by people in Iran (who weirdly read my books in pirated Farsi editions) who manage to come online in various ways and they beg me to keep posting these images and faces and keep talking about them. Embarrassingly they thank me just for doing this! That is why i am writing this now. We must keep going and keep doing so.
The numbers killed are astonishing: based on sources within the murderous dictatorship, it may be as many as 36000 were murdered just in the first days of the terror 8/9 January and more later - making it likely that 40,000 is a horribly plausible estimate.
This makes this event the most greatest massacre in modern Iranian history by far, the greatest single event slaughter in modern MIddle Eastern history since 1900 - along with the Assad's liquidation of an entire town, site of Islamist insurgents, Hama, in 1982 when around 30,000 were killed. Both of them not taking place in wars but in cold blood - and this Iranian atrocity being far more terrible since none of the protesters were armed.
We live in a time of egregious comparisons to the Holocaust when the Holocaust is repellently abused and minimized by cynical cretins - radiohosts, podders, politicians- to criticize anything from vaccination to ICE raids. But here is a comparison that stands in its scale and horror: in size and horror this does resemble the two days of Babi Yar near Kiev in Sept 1941 where 33,000 Jews were killed. It is also worth pointing out that an entire progressive movement arose against the autocracy of the Shah.
And his was an autocracy. But in his forty year one reign, only around 3000 people were killed, mainly in the last year before his downfall.
It is very striking that the UN has barely commented on thiis…
There's only one country with the power to intervene against the murderous Iranian regime, and it's currently sending Witkoff and Kushner to negotiate with them.
But Monteviore is essentially correct; it is not hyperbole to compare the Iranian regime with that of Stalin at Katyn for example. (The Holocaust comparison is problematic, since it was different in kind.)
He is and always has been an arch Zionist. If you support Netanyahu's work in Gaza he's your man
That's perhaps what Leon meant by "one of the good guys"?
SSMontefiore is really not an arch-Zionist. Roger is, however, some weird creepy self hating Jew that loathes Israel, and therefore supports Iran, or at least doesn't care what Iran does to its own people, because Iran is anti-Israel so Iran must be good
Quite perverse
You are beginning sound a lot like how they march with Israel flags in Northern Ireland, but anti Israel in Republic of Ireland!
Surely it’s fair to not like what Netanyahu’s regime have done and not like what Iranian regime have done, without making us a supporter of the other side? We really don’t have to pick one side or the other on this, just because are usual antagonists have piled in on the other side. That’s soooo immature.
Sudan conflict is a very different thing - it’s geopolitical land and power grab rather than localism fighting for land and freedom. Foreign fighters signed up as mercenaries killing and displacing locals on behalf of regimes far away. A bit like the thirty years war in Europe.
There was an excellent programme with Mark Kermode on ' New Iranian Cinema' yesterday. It gave a much better insight into Iran than youl'll ever get reading the partial accounts of Sebag Montefiore or Leon.
Yep, it was good. I was gratified to hear an exiled young director who had started a successful restaurant in my home town of Aberdeen and had then felt able to continue his film making career. Sounds a good story for a film!
I’ve gradually warmed to Mark Kermode and Ellen E Jones, felt they were a bit too smarty pants when I first started listening but their genuinely love of and knowledge about film has won me over.
They've got much better since they changed the format. It now feels like they're talking to fim buffs and they've left some of the smart arse stuff behind. I go to visit my cousin in Aberdeen two or three times a year. I really like the place. She doesn't and after many years is moving back to Edinburgh.
Triple stabbing ought not necessitate nearly 18h of closed roads and a total media blackout.
Edit - Leicester police say it wasn't a triple stabbing.
The report I saw said a murder investigation as a result of someone being stabbed.
I presume it's a murder investigation because someone has been killed. I suppose we'll just have to wait but the lack of detail at this point is.... strange.
I can't recall many incidents like this that have had 18 h of road closures and a media blackout, but hey, the police are the experts.
Just tell people what you know, and what you want them to do (or not do). Something like:
"Police are investigating a stabbing incident at x place, at y time. A man in his approx age has been arrested and is helping police with their inquiries. We are not looking for anyone else in connection with this incident at this time. Police have cordoned off area x + dx in order to gather evidence and the public are asked to avoid this area at this time. Anyone in this area at y time who thinks they might have any information relating to this incident is asked to contact police at z number/police station. Police will be making a further statement with more information at t hours."
It's not difficult.
Instant questions - why arent they saying how many victims? What race were the perpetrator and victim? Terrorist or not? Etc
Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos: "I have no idea of the history of this land."
Warner Bros. Discovery exec Bruce Campbell: "Nor do I."
Cruz: "That speaks volumes...that neither of you are willing to say 'hell, no.'"
While I think Billie Eilish is great, I doubt her comments are going to have much electoral impact.
But she's right. The US is all stolen land.
Even the land they acquired from its previous owners. Interesting take.
Her comments may not have any impact but the debate around them might.
Still most people here are experts on the US so I’m sure they will endlessly pontificate on it.
I thought she made a very good point and I hope it does lead to a wider discussion. It's one of the charms of PB that posters enjoy discussing the inside of a ball-bearing sometimes missing the bigger picture altogether
Go back far enough and all land is stolen. What's the point?
Go back far enough and all land is stolen, or promised to you by God you mean.
I was in Washington DC when Peter Mandelson was appointed as ambassador. There was serious dismay in the British embassy about it - not specifically because of his Epstein links, but because everyone knew he was trouble and it always ends in tears with him. Plus, Karen Pierce was a brilliant ambassador who had a great relationship with Trump’s team, and wanted to extend. It was just awful judgement by Keir Starmer and his No10 from the very get go.
It’s because Starmer thought Mandelson could sell the stupid Chagos deal. That was Mandy’s job
When the history of this bizarrely tragic government is written, a little tropic archipelago near nowhere will be oddly prominent
Why are you saying it was about Chagos in particular rather than the general perception (of SKS) that Mandelson's peculiar talents would suit working with a peculiar White House?
Seeing as both Trump and Mandelson had relationships with Epstein it may even have been that Mandy's moving in these kinds of circles was what convinced the government to make him ambassador. Trump's world is one where rich and powerful men (and they are all men) carve up the world to their benefit. Treating women and girls Ike commodities is a feature not a bug, as to these people everything is a commodity, to be bought and sold for their benefit. To my mind this is the reality that the Epstein files lay open for all to see, although really it was all there anyway for those who want to see it.
Yes, I'm afraid 'takes a sleaze to manage a sleaze' might well have been a part of it. And now look. Nothing Mandelson could have achieved in Washington is worth even a fraction of this fallout. Such a bad call.
Really? The fallout is lots of embarrassment for Labour politicians for a few weeks alongside a perhaps 10% chance that a mediocre at best PM loses their job to be replaced by another likely mediocre at best PM.
The volatility in the UK-Trump relationship includes the future of Ukraine, NATO survival and trillions in the economy over the next couple of decades.
It's led to a massive scandal that damages Labour and helps Reform. By how much, we don't know, but it doesn't feel trivial. That, for me, outweighs whatever marginal utility PM had or could have had as our US ambassador.
Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.
As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.
She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.
Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.
Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.
Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.
She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.
Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos: "I have no idea of the history of this land."
Warner Bros. Discovery exec Bruce Campbell: "Nor do I."
Cruz: "That speaks volumes...that neither of you are willing to say 'hell, no.'"
While I think Billie Eilish is great, I doubt her comments are going to have much electoral impact.
But she's right. The US is all stolen land.
Even the land they acquired from its previous owners. Interesting take.
Her comments may not have any impact but the debate around them might.
Still most people here are experts on the US so I’m sure they will endlessly pontificate on it.
I thought she made a very good point and I hope it does lead to a wider discussion. It's one of the charms of PB that posters enjoy discussing the inside of a ball-bearing sometimes missing the bigger picture altogether
Go back far enough and all land is stolen. What's the point?
Go back far enough and all land is stolen, or promised to you by God you mean.
Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.
As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.
She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.
Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.
Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.
Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.
She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.
Netflix co-CEO Ted Sarandos: "I have no idea of the history of this land."
Warner Bros. Discovery exec Bruce Campbell: "Nor do I."
Cruz: "That speaks volumes...that neither of you are willing to say 'hell, no.'"
While I think Billie Eilish is great, I doubt her comments are going to have much electoral impact.
But she's right. The US is all stolen land.
No it is absolutely not all stolen land.
Much of the land was not previously inhabited, so who was it stolen from?
And many Native American tribes willingly sold land to settlers. How is purchased land stolen?
Some was stolen. All is just nonsense.
What parts of the US were not previously inhabited? OK, maybe bits of Alaska.
Yes, you are right some plots of land were willingly sold to settlers, although most deals were coercive or the tribes and settlers had very different ideas over what rights were being sold.
So, the US is mostly stolen land.
Also, the whole idea that you can simply rock up to a piece of uninhabited land and claim it as yours seems something of a cultural invention.
The whole concept of ownership is something of a cultural intervention.
If you can't own something nobody else owns, then what exactly can you own?
Land stands out as something a bit different because, in principle, anything* else can be produced in sufficient quantity that everyone can own a copy. But land ownership is strictly a zero-sum deal.
* You might counter that not everyone can own a painting by Van Gogh, but this is an interesting example because everyone can own a high-quality print of a Van Gogh - which has pretty much the visual impact of the original - but we've elevated the value of the original so that people can feel good about owning something others cannot.
I'm still waiting for the upsurge in the AI created art market which I was assuming (like Liz Truss) was going to surprise on the upside.
A guid poyum on ownership.
A Man In Assynt (extract)
Norman MacCaig
Glaciers, grinding West, gouged out these valleys, rasping the brown sandstone, and left, on the hard rock below – the ruffled foreland – this frieze of mountains, filed on the blue air – Stac Polly, Cul Beag, Cul Mor, Suilven, Canisp – a frieze and a litany.
Who owns this landscape? Has owning anything to do with love? For it and I have a love-affair, so nearly human we even have quarrels. – When I intrude too confidently it rebuffs me with a wind like a hand or puts in my way a quaking bog or loch where no loch should be. Or I turn stonily away, refusing to notice the rouged rocks, the mascara under a dripping ledge, even the tossed, the stony limbs waiting.
I can’t pretend it gets sick for me in my absence, though I get sick for it. Yet I love it with special gratitude,since it sends me no letters, is never jealous and, expecting nothing from me, gets nothing but cigarette packets and footprints.
Who owns this landscape? – The millionaire who bought it or the poacher staggering downhill in the early morning with a deer on his back?
Who possesses this landscape? – The man who bought it or I who am possessed by it?
False questions, for this landscape is masterless and intractable in any terms that are human. It is docile only to the weather and its indefatigable lieutenants – wind, water and frost. The wind whets the high ridges and stunts silver birches and alders. Rain falling down meets springs gushing up – they gather and carry down to the Minch tons of sour soil, making bald the bony scalp of Cul Mor. And frost thrusts his hand in cracks and, clenching his fist, bursts open the sandstone plates, the armour of Suilven; he bleeds stories down chutes and screes, smelling of gun powder.
Surely, there is no landscape more magnificent in Britain than Assynt?
MacCaig is not exaggerating about the line-up of Stac Polly, Cul Beag, Cul Mor, Suilven, Canisp as seen from the west. A remarkable spectacle.
Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.
As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.
She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.
Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.
Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.
Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.
She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.
A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.
Cleverly would have far better.
Tory benches sat on complete silence.
Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands
Morgan, sun, is your shredder broken ? I thought you'd be too busy to be on here.
Kemi: "Labour MPs now have to decide if they want to be party to [Starmer's] cover up...."
Maybe its me, but I am struggling to see a cover up here. Rank incompetence, especially on the part of those responsible for positive vetting, really poor judgement on the part of the PM, certainly. But a cover up? It seems highly unlikely that these emails were known about at the time of the appointment. After all, that is why he used a private account.
Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.
As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.
She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.
Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.
Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.
Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.
She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.
Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.
As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.
She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.
Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.
Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.
Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.
She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.
I was in Washington DC when Peter Mandelson was appointed as ambassador. There was serious dismay in the British embassy about it - not specifically because of his Epstein links, but because everyone knew he was trouble and it always ends in tears with him. Plus, Karen Pierce was a brilliant ambassador who had a great relationship with Trump’s team, and wanted to extend. It was just awful judgement by Keir Starmer and his No10 from the very get go.
It’s because Starmer thought Mandelson could sell the stupid Chagos deal. That was Mandy’s job
When the history of this bizarrely tragic government is written, a little tropic archipelago near nowhere will be oddly prominent
Why are you saying it was about Chagos in particular rather than the general perception (of SKS) that Mandelson's peculiar talents would suit working with a peculiar White House?
Seeing as both Trump and Mandelson had relationships with Epstein it may even have been that Mandy's moving in these kinds of circles was what convinced the government to make him ambassador. Trump's world is one where rich and powerful men (and they are all men) carve up the world to their benefit. Treating women and girls Ike commodities is a feature not a bug, as to these people everything is a commodity, to be bought and sold for their benefit. To my mind this is the reality that the Epstein files lay open for all to see, although really it was all there anyway for those who want to see it.
Yes, I'm afraid 'takes a sleaze to manage a sleaze' might well have been a part of it. And now look. Nothing Mandelson could have achieved in Washington is worth even a fraction of this fallout. Such a bad call.
Really? The fallout is lots of embarrassment for Labour politicians for a few weeks alongside a perhaps 10% chance that a mediocre at best PM loses their job to be replaced by another likely mediocre at best PM.
The volatility in the UK-Trump relationship includes the future of Ukraine, NATO survival and trillions in the economy over the next couple of decades.
It's led to a massive scandal that damages Labour and helps Reform. By how much, we don't know, but it doesn't feel trivial. That, for me, outweighs whatever marginal utility PM had or could have had as our US ambassador.
Does it? It embarrasses Labour but Badenoch is the one who gets to scrutinise Starmer, not Farage. Also if it makes the voting public skeptical of politicians with a colourful history and connections to foreign powers and billionaires that is hardly any use for Reform is it?
This is such woke nonsense and why we need the BBC.
ITV to screen in-game ad breaks for first time during rugby’s Six Nations
Twenty-second adverts to fill right half of screens
Broadcaster mulling over repeating move for World Cup
ITV will screen in-game commercials for the first time during Thursday’s Six Nations Championship opener between France and Ireland at Stade de France. The broadcaster’s new rights deal includes the option to air two split-screen adverts before a scrum is set in each half of every match of the Six Nations, the Guardian has learned.
ITV is understood to have agreed in-game advertising deals with two major brands, with the screen to be divided in two so viewers do not miss any commentary or live action. The commercials will fill the right half of the screen and last around 20 seconds, with live pictures continuing on the left.
Split-screen in-game advertising has been used by TV networks in the United States for several years and is being trialled by RTE in the Irish national broadcaster’s racing coverage in Ireland.
If the Six Nations experiment is a success , there is a possibility ITV could sell in-game commericals for its coverage of this summer’s World Cup, when there all matches will feature a three-minute water break in the middle of each half to help players cope with the extreme heat.
Was Starmer made aware that Mandelson stayed with Epstein prior to his appointment? I think that question hasn't been answered?
If so I might go all currygate on this.
He avoided that question. He admitted that the vetting raised Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein. It seems that people then asked Mandelson for details, which weren’t accurate, and everyone basically then went “that’s ok then”.
Triple stabbing ought not necessitate nearly 18h of closed roads and a total media blackout.
Edit - Leicester police say it wasn't a triple stabbing.
The report I saw said a murder investigation as a result of someone being stabbed.
I presume it's a murder investigation because someone has been killed. I suppose we'll just have to wait but the lack of detail at this point is.... strange.
I can't recall many incidents like this that have had 18 h of road closures and a media blackout, but hey, the police are the experts.
Just tell people what you know, and what you want them to do (or not do). Something like:
"Police are investigating a stabbing incident at x place, at y time. A man in his approx age has been arrested and is helping police with their inquiries. We are not looking for anyone else in connection with this incident at this time. Police have cordoned off area x + dx in order to gather evidence and the public are asked to avoid this area at this time. Anyone in this area at y time who thinks they might have any information relating to this incident is asked to contact police at z number/police station. Police will be making a further statement with more information at t hours."
It's not difficult.
Yes, a fatal stabbing just outside the Leicester Royal Infimary in one of the streets between us and De Montford Uni. It doesn't appear to be either LRI staff or patient. Pretty disruptive for both staff and patients trying to get in.
It is in a street where there have been incidents in the past between rival drug gangs, so may be that again.
Was Starmer made aware that Mandelson stayed with Epstein prior to his appointment? I think that question hasn't been answered?
If so I might go all currygate on this.
He avoided that question. He admitted that the vetting raised Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein. It seems that people then asked Mandelson for details, which weren’t accurate, and everyone basically then went “that’s ok then”.
To be fair to Starmer, there was absolutely nothing in Mandelson's known past to suggest he might lie about it.
* You might counter that not everyone can own a painting by Van Gogh, but this is an interesting example because everyone can own a high-quality print of a Van Gogh - which has pretty much the visual impact of the original
Without detracting from the point you're trying to make, as a philistine I used to think this. And then I had an hour to kill and visited the National Gallery.
A print does not have the visual impact of a Van Gogh. It can't. What you don't realise until you actually see a Van Gogh up close is most of the beauty comes from the texture. No matter how good your print, a 2d representation just doesn't do it at all.
I can't at the moment quite see how Starmer can survive the Mandelson things. Even the tiniest shred of 'The Buck Stops Here' would appear to land on his desk.
(But who do centrist dads/ordinary centrists in England vote for when: Tory and Labour moral and political reputations are trashed, LDs can't win, Reform are ethno-nats, Greens are socialists fond of Israel's bitter enemies?)
Predictions that a politician can’t survive something turn out to be wrong much more often than they are right. I think it helps Starmer that he had already sacked Mandelson last year, and he’d only made him an ambassador, not put him back in Cabinet. Mandelson has promptly left Labour and the Lords. Whether that’s enough, I don’t know. You can get 1.63:1 on Starmer leaving in 2026 on Betfair, but I think 6:1 on him leaving in 2027 represents better value.
Starmer was on the ropes today. He was forced to admit "I was" when asked whether he was aware of Mandelson's continuing relationship with Epstein at the time of his appointment as Ambassador.
But I don't know how he could have handled it any better than he did. Perhaps reduce the use of the word "process"?
Labour’s Black Wednesday. Starmer can’t defend this.
So he’ll be PM for nearly the next five years?
In the sense that it taints the whole Labour brand and will do for a long time, just as Black Wednesday damaged the belief that the Tories were the party of economic competence.
The question is why did Starmer appoint him. It could be because he thought he'd be good at it or more likely I'd suggest to placate Mandelson and stop him interfering in Westminster.
Didn't watch but per the betting that wasn't great for Keir. The 2026 exit has shortened by about 20 points.
On that market I'm long 27/28, flat 29+ and short 26. That book could prove to be sub-optimal. But let's see.
It was very interesting. One of those listening quietly, like in court, not noisy yah boo stuff.
Starmer came to play the victim. Kemi done very well with clear strong questions, and it created a strong impression of a government conducting a cover up, hiding behind “you can’t have full disclosure because of National Security implications.”
Already we see the “investigations underway we can’t prejudice, you can’t raise this subject anymore now” that made the Covid Party thing so interminable.
Starmer’s quite safe from this, just one of those “a week is a long time in politics” type days. After the publications and sharing of data, debate and votes - which ‘Starmer will comfortably win, this things got few actual legs after today.
Comments
I’ve gradually warmed to Mark Kermode and Ellen E Jones, felt they were a bit too smarty pants when I first started listening but their genuinely love of and knowledge about film has won me over.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-44-closest-stars-and-how-they-compare-to-our-sun/
The volatility in the UK-Trump relationship includes the future of Ukraine, NATO survival and trillions in the economy over the next couple of decades.
(But who do centrist dads/ordinary centrists in England vote for when: Tory and Labour moral and political reputations are trashed, LDs can't win, Reform are ethno-nats, Greens are socialists fond of Israel's bitter enemies?)
https://x.com/jackelsom/status/2019007457712882094
Understand No10 is working to publish *some* of the docs much quicker, possibly as soon as today.
This will likely be papers they believe vindicates their position that Starmer was not aware of the full depths of Mandelson's history.
But others will take much longer to retrieve/redact.
Labour will claim the Tories are irresponsible for demanding thousands of text exchanges between officials/ministers/diplomats they say would go against the national interest.
The regime held its nerve and tens of thousands have been brutally murdered as a result.
Perhaps some air strikes on IRGC bases just before the mass killings started might have created enough panic in the regime that it would have collapsed. That seems to have been what a lot of those protesting on the streets were hoping for when they asked Trump for help.
But we don't know.
Tony Blair comes closest after Rishi at a £60 million net worth now (though his son Euan is super rich now and worth £350 million from his education tech company)
No problem
It's desperate Dan
It's not her A game or C game though is it.
All scripred for her.
That shows why she can't deviate from the next question if the answer is already given.
Her Greenland gaffe was z level abysmal
"Police are investigating a stabbing incident at x place, at y time. A man in his approx age has been arrested and is helping police with their inquiries. We are not looking for anyone else in connection with this incident at this time. Police have cordoned off area x + dx in order to gather evidence and the public are asked to avoid this area at this time. Anyone in this area at y time who thinks they might have any information relating to this incident is asked to contact police at z number/police station. Police will be making a further statement with more information at t hours."
It's not difficult.
https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/2019013417517129862?s=20
It’s all very worrying, observing as I am from very close to Iran.
https://x.com/OliDugmore/status/2018968041858466203?s=20
I see it is now "Mandelson" and not "Pete".
I have quibbles; what about the rest of you ?
Just added “nape” to my list of Words Used Only With One Other Word
https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2018962992952639716
Whatever they say, people will want to know more.
Over to his mps now
Lets follow the process.
Unequivocal.
Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.
As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.
She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.
Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.
Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.
Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.
She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.
A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.
Cleverly would have far better.
Tory benches sat on complete silence.
Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands
MacCaig is not exaggerating about the line-up of Stac Polly, Cul Beag, Cul Mor, Suilven, Canisp as seen from the west. A remarkable spectacle.
One good joke and seven bad ones.
If so I might go all currygate on this. Losing track of the facts here.
The one from the MP in Paisley was literally ‘does the PM agree with me the SNP are shit’
No wonder I stopped watching this bollocks
On that market I'm long 27/28, flat 29+ and short 26. That book could prove to be sub-optimal. But let's see.
Perhaps it would have been essential to treat Mandy with great skepticism, given he got booted twice before for being a rogue.
It is in a street where there have been incidents in the past between rival drug gangs, so may be that again.
The Commons are furious and Starmer is embarrassing
And @Brixian59 McSweeney tribute act is laughable ridiculous
A print does not have the visual impact of a Van Gogh. It can't. What you don't realise until you actually see a Van Gogh up close is most of the beauty comes from the texture. No matter how good your print, a 2d representation just doesn't do it at all.
https://x.com/ByDonkeys/with_replies
He was forced to admit "I was" when asked whether he was aware of Mandelson's continuing relationship with Epstein at the time of his appointment as Ambassador.
But I don't know how he could have handled it any better than he did.
Perhaps reduce the use of the word "process"?
Starmer came to play the victim. Kemi done very well with clear strong questions, and it created a strong impression of a government conducting a cover up, hiding behind “you can’t have full disclosure because of National Security implications.”
Already we see the “investigations underway we can’t prejudice, you can’t raise this subject anymore now” that made the Covid Party thing so interminable.
Starmer’s quite safe from this, just one of those “a week is a long time in politics” type days. After the publications and sharing of data, debate and votes - which ‘Starmer will comfortably win, this things got few actual legs after today.