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If this is what happens in the midterms then the Republicans are in for a shellacking

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,063
    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,177
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,959

    The question is why did Starmer appoint him. It could be because he thought he'd be good at it or more likely I'd suggest to placate Mandelson and stop him interfering in Westminster.

    Spot on, Frank. Why, indeed?

    We don't yet know the answer to that question. If we had a decent Press, we might find out sooner rather than later. In fact we are more likely to reach an informed opinion on this through following some of the better posters on here.

    May take a while though.
    What Starmer can’t admit (because in hindsight it looks like a shockingly bad and maybe career-ending decision) is that he needed an ambassador to the US that he felt could do business with Trump, and, either due to McSweeney’s prompting, or party politics, or what he saw as simple realpolitik he decided that Peter Mandelson was an appropriate choice and if there were risks they were risks worth taking. That seems to be the crux of it.
    Given that Trump is still President it is hard for Starmer to say the obvious, that he thought Mandelson was the right person to deal with Trump precisely because he was comfortable mixing with sex offenders and slimeballs.

    Maybe should have chosen a keen golfer instead.
    Sir Nick Faldo! He's gone a bit maga and lives in America on a big ranch in a red state. Absolutely perfect for the role.

    That's probably what a Tory or Reform government would have done.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LE in 2022 when most council seats were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    They dont have overall control in Dudley HYUFD (33 of 72 seats)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,393
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:



    One good joke and seven bad ones.

    I reckon my “Pants Peer” beats them all
    You're an enthusiastic marketer of your own wares, I'll give you that.
    I'm a postie. I think I'm entitled to some pride in the political pun nicknames that I've coined
    It's fine, just ribbing. Your politics are a bit seamy but otherwise you have your moments.
    Patronising twat. You’re a f*cking retired accountant
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,668
    The government is being slated across the House.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,881
    edited 1:36PM
    kinabalu said:

    The question is why did Starmer appoint him. It could be because he thought he'd be good at it or more likely I'd suggest to placate Mandelson and stop him interfering in Westminster.

    Spot on, Frank. Why, indeed?

    We don't yet know the answer to that question. If we had a decent Press, we might find out sooner rather than later. In fact we are more likely to reach an informed opinion on this through following some of the better posters on here.

    May take a while though.
    What Starmer can’t admit (because in hindsight it looks like a shockingly bad and maybe career-ending decision) is that he needed an ambassador to the US that he felt could do business with Trump, and, either due to McSweeney’s prompting, or party politics, or what he saw as simple realpolitik he decided that Peter Mandelson was an appropriate choice and if there were risks they were risks worth taking. That seems to be the crux of it.
    That's right. If Mandelson's ease (like Trump) in Epstein and Epstein type circles was seen as a positive in the context of the appointment that cannot be admitted in public.
    But I poo poo this whole idea Trump needed a “celebrity slime ball politician” UK Ambassador.

    You have people born to be diplomats because of their disposition, who also learn on the job - slimeball politicians have neither the disposition or experience.

    Such people likely on the make their entire lives, so if appointed can use the position to continue to be on the make.

    I would put it that you need the right “psychological maturity” from an Ambassador. Just listen to how Mandelson had been DEFENDING TRUMP in recent weeks over claims to Greenland.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/08/mandelson-accuses-european-leaders-of-histrionic-reaction-to-trump-greenland-stance

    https://spectator.com/article/europe-needs-to-get-on-board-with-trumps-plans-for-greenland/

    He’s allowed himself to be groomed all over again!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,310

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Has more of a Saturday morning poster vibe to me.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,747
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband
    Is this a game, or is there a country to run?

    Do the opposition really want the worst person in charge just so they can have a go later?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,169
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Does anyone still think Starmer will fight the 2029 GE?

    I’m still not quite sure when he will go, but I simply can’t see this now. He is far too wounded on too many fronts to face the electorate again.

    No.
    The question of when he goes remains an open one.

    If the economy really does pick up, and the immigration numbers continue to decline significantly, then closer to the next general election would surely suit Labour ?

    If not, then they're screwed whatever they do.
    Yes, i do think shrill demands for SKS immediate resignation are not analysing reality but simply are a bit of a performance. I still think Mandelson is an evil and greedy man and think less of Labour because they continued for so many years to nurse him in their bosom, however Blair and Brown are more guilty than Starmer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,393
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:



    One good joke and seven bad ones.

    I reckon my “Pants Peer” beats them all
    You're an enthusiastic marketer of your own wares, I'll give you that.
    I'm a postie. I think I'm entitled to some pride in the political pun nicknames that I've coined
    It's fine, just ribbing. Your politics are a bit seamy but otherwise you have your moments.
    Patronising twat. You’re a f*cking retired accountant
    lol

    What snowflake flagged this?

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,321

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    edited 1:35PM
    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LEs in 2022 when most council seats up in May were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    Wales will be brutal for them - 15% and 14 seats probably best possible return with something like 11% and 9 or 10 most likely
    Scotland they should be aiming for a % and seat return similar to 2011 with min 2 constituency wins (berwickshire and dumfriesshire probably)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,393

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
    indeed

    Hate takes effort. This shill is just ridiculous

    Indeed it feels like a stunt to me. A conceptual joke. Perhaps by one of the more mischievous moderators
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,296

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
    Isn't this just a variant on the Saturday Troll theme?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,409

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Has more of a Saturday morning poster vibe to me.
    A Soviet submarine.. B-59
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,737
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    1) It wins back votes from Greens and RTBs - the more split the left vote is, the better for the parties aspiring to be the largest party of tge right (and vice versa).
    2) It shifts the Overton window leftwards, making it harder to do right-wing things should Cons regain power.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,358
    edited 1:39PM
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    Mahmoud wants total panopticon AI/digital surveillance.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,477
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
    indeed

    Hate takes effort. This shill is just ridiculous

    Indeed it feels like a stunt to me. A conceptual joke. Perhaps by one of the more mischievous moderators
    Or posters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,063
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    The New Labour experiment died with the file drop on Saturday.

    Angie, Angie
    When will those clouds all disappear?
    Angie, Angie
    Where will it lead us from here?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,063

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
    So myself and Roger remain top dogs?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,641

    Huzzah for juries ?

    Six Palestine Action activists have been cleared of aggravated burglary over a break-in at a UK subsidiary of an Israeli defence firm.

    Charlotte Head, 29, Samuel Corner, 23, Leona Kamio, 30, Fatema Rajwani, 21, Zoe Rogers, 22, and Jordan Devlin, 31, were also charged with criminal damage and violent disorder but the jury reached partial or no verdicts.

    The alleged raid targeted the Elbit Systems building near Bristol in the early hours of 6 August 2024.

    The six defendants hugged in the dock and waved to supporters in the public gallery, who cheered loudly after the judge had left the court.

    The jury at Woolwich Crown Court had been deliberating for more than 36 hours after a trial that began in November 2025.
    Rajwani, Rogers and Devlin were found not guilty of violent disorder. No verdict was reached for charges of violent disorder for Head, Corner and Kamio.

    Jurors were also unable to reach a verdict on Corner's charge of causing grievous bodily harm with intent relating to an alleged attack on a security guard.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wxlv99xrjo

    Might make some Reformers and Tories think twice about opposing removal of jury trials for most criminal damage and burglary cases though
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,277

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    If we accept he's gone before the election, would it be better for Kemi (or successor) to face someone who has had to deal with the usual sh*t that comes with the job and inevitably had some stick, or someone vaguely new and still shiny?

    Of course, the most important question might be what is better for the country, and that's much more of a grey area depending on who the replacement might be.
    Given the precedent of the previous Parliament you force Starmer to resign asap, and then try to force his replacement to do likewise.

    There is nothing like having to change PMs twice in a Parliament in terms of creating a sense of a government party that has lost control and needs to be put out of its misery.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,296
    Cicero said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Does anyone still think Starmer will fight the 2029 GE?

    I’m still not quite sure when he will go, but I simply can’t see this now. He is far too wounded on too many fronts to face the electorate again.

    No.
    The question of when he goes remains an open one.

    If the economy really does pick up, and the immigration numbers continue to decline significantly, then closer to the next general election would surely suit Labour ?

    If not, then they're screwed whatever they do.
    Yes, i do think shrill demands for SKS immediate resignation are not analysing reality but simply are a bit of a performance. I still think Mandelson is an evil and greedy man and think less of Labour because they continued for so many years to nurse him in their bosom, however Blair and Brown are more guilty than Starmer.
    They had more power so would have been capable of greater harm.

    I don't think they were especially corrupt though - certainly not Brown.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,477
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    Afaicr she polls pretty badly with the party.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,347
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    She is doing sensible things, which makes her unpopular with the hand-wringing wokerati membership.

    She could only become PM if she stood unopposed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,641
    edited 1:41PM
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    1) It wins back votes from Greens and RTBs - the more split the left vote is, the better for the parties aspiring to be the largest party of tge right (and vice versa).
    2) It shifts the Overton window leftwards, making it harder to do right-wing things should Cons regain power.
    It also could shift centrist swing voters who voted for Blair then Tory from 2010 to 2019 then Starmer Labour in 2024 back to the Tories. The LDs could also benefit
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,316
    edited 1:42PM
    https://x.com/edcumming/status/2019011793486549033

    Nat Rothschild calling Mandelson “tragically naeive” and a “sucker”:

    --------------
    > Of course jpm views company as
    > strong, company is =aying them, You're tragically naeive as to how the
    > financial system wo=ks. Part of their job is to find "suckers" like
    > you to sit on boards. =f you're not capable of performing a piece of
    > perfunctory analysis lik= looking at income s, balance sheet, cashflow
    > you shouldn't be sit=ing on the board.
    >
    > Lazards is a bucket shop and by joining them you immediately shut the
    > door on a serious institution for ever.
    > You=can't switch horses.
    >
    > Sorry for brutal response.


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,219
    Ange wields the knife

    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    🚨BREAKING: Angela Rayner has intervened to ask that the Intelligence & Security Committee has oversight of release of docs

    This is very significant. It suggests govt amendment as tabled today not adequate/sufficient as it stands & thinks ISC oversight important for transparency/public confidence

    https://bsky.app/profile/peterstefanovic.bsky.social/post/3mdzyccvswk2g
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    Mandygate should also kill Chagos once and for all
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,641

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LEs in 2022 when most council seats up in May were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    Wales will be brutal for them - 15% and 14 seats probably best possible return with something like 11% and 9 or 10 most likely
    Scotland they should be aiming for a % and seat return similar to 2011 with min 2 constituency wins (berwickshire and dumfriesshire probably)
    Aiming for but Reform are likely to pick up seats in rural Scotland and could even take Berwickshire and Dumfriesshire from the Tories, Reform will also likely overtake the Tories in Wales too
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,219
    @jessicaelgot.bsky.social‬

    I have never seen anger like this on the Labour benches in private and in public. This is the kind of territory where things can move very fast.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,401
    Roger said:

    Huzzah for juries ?

    Six Palestine Action activists have been cleared of aggravated burglary over a break-in at a UK subsidiary of an Israeli defence firm.

    Charlotte Head, 29, Samuel Corner, 23, Leona Kamio, 30, Fatema Rajwani, 21, Zoe Rogers, 22, and Jordan Devlin, 31, were also charged with criminal damage and violent disorder but the jury reached partial or no verdicts.

    The alleged raid targeted the Elbit Systems building near Bristol in the early hours of 6 August 2024.

    The six defendants hugged in the dock and waved to supporters in the public gallery, who cheered loudly after the judge had left the court.

    The jury at Woolwich Crown Court had been deliberating for more than 36 hours after a trial that began in November 2025.
    Rajwani, Rogers and Devlin were found not guilty of violent disorder. No verdict was reached for charges of violent disorder for Head, Corner and Kamio.

    Jurors were also unable to reach a verdict on Corner's charge of causing grievous bodily harm with intent relating to an alleged attack on a security guard.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wxlv99xrjo

    Excellent news. A jury that won't be cowed. This presumably means all the Palestine Action trials will fail. This authoritarianism is what Starmer should be being pilloried for. He's been in Israel's pocket for far too long. All those Labour candidates thrown off lists must be smiling widely.
    Do you think people should be allowed to commit GBH against police officers if they belong to Palestine Action?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,641

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband
    Is this a game, or is there a country to run?

    Do the opposition really want the worst person in charge just so they can have a go later?
    Of course, opposition parties want as poor a government as possible
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,881

    Mandygate should also kill Chagos once and for all

    No. The Indians and Americans like the deal they created for us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,641

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LE in 2022 when most council seats were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    They dont have overall control in Dudley HYUFD (33 of 72 seats)
    Thanks, Dudley likely goes Reform anyway
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,393
    This is, surely, the end


    “Starmer's defence appears to be...
    I knew Mandelson was best friends with a child sex trafficker but I didn't know how often they hung out.
    Indefensible. He's finished”

    https://x.com/jonnocalypse/status/2019039878055682381?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,219
    @leicesterliz

    The whole of Leicester will be devasted by the fatal stabbing near De Monfort University.
    My thoughts and sympathies are with the victim’s family and friends.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,881
    Scott_xP said:

    Ange wields the knife

    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    🚨BREAKING: Angela Rayner has intervened to ask that the Intelligence & Security Committee has oversight of release of docs

    This is very significant. It suggests govt amendment as tabled today not adequate/sufficient as it stands & thinks ISC oversight important for transparency/public confidence

    https://bsky.app/profile/peterstefanovic.bsky.social/post/3mdzyccvswk2g

    Yes it is. Ange agreeing with what Kemi asked for at PMQs (and what I posted last night). Government cannot hide behind “security” when they can share it with ISC.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,277

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband
    Is this a game, or is there a country to run?

    Do the opposition really want the worst person in charge just so they can have a go later?
    The Opposition don't have a say in who becomes PM, so they shouldn't worry too much about it.

    Starmer is not good enough at the job, so they should do all they can to remove him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,219
    @CatNeilan

    Exclusive: Morgan McSweeney sought official advice about whether Mandelson could be the UK's ambassador to the US on a part-time basis

    Officials “had to explain that being His Majesty’s Ambassador in Washington was a full time job… in Washington"

    https://x.com/CatNeilan/status/2019042224902987857?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,641
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    No, even Starmer still beats Mahmood with Labour members, despite Labour members now preferring Rayner, Streeting and Ed Miliband to Starmer (they overwhelmingly preferred Burnham to Sir Keir but he is not now an option)

    https://labourlist.org/2025/11/keir-starmer-leadership-contest-streeting-rayner-burnham-miliband/
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,409
    edited 1:50PM
    Leon said:

    This is, surely, the end


    “Starmer's defence appears to be...
    I knew Mandelson was best friends with a child sex trafficker but I didn't know how often they hung out.
    Indefensible. He's finished”

    https://x.com/jonnocalypse/status/2019039878055682381?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    It turned out that he was just too good friends with a paedo trafficker for my liking
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,316
    https://x.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/2019032946586620369

    I will vote against the government’s amendment today that tries to exclude papers from the inquiry into Mandelson on the grounds “prejudicial to international relations.” This is so wide that it opens up the Prime Minister to allegations of collusion in a cover up.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LEs in 2022 when most council seats up in May were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    Wales will be brutal for them - 15% and 14 seats probably best possible return with something like 11% and 9 or 10 most likely
    Scotland they should be aiming for a % and seat return similar to 2011 with min 2 constituency wins (berwickshire and dumfriesshire probably)
    Aiming for but Reform are likely to pick up seats in rural Scotland and could even take Berwickshire and Dumfriesshire from the Tories, Reform will also likely overtake the Tories in Wales too
    Wales, yes, they will.
    I think the Scottish Tory borders vote probably holds on (particularly Berwickshire) - Stranraer and the Rhins was more fertile for Reform (as is D and G generally) and was only fractionally Reform on first preferences and Tory held on transfers
    Eastwood and Ayr might be won on a low % so Tories have at least a chance here if not a good one.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,798
    Roger said:

    Huzzah for juries ?

    Six Palestine Action activists have been cleared of aggravated burglary over a break-in at a UK subsidiary of an Israeli defence firm.

    Charlotte Head, 29, Samuel Corner, 23, Leona Kamio, 30, Fatema Rajwani, 21, Zoe Rogers, 22, and Jordan Devlin, 31, were also charged with criminal damage and violent disorder but the jury reached partial or no verdicts.

    The alleged raid targeted the Elbit Systems building near Bristol in the early hours of 6 August 2024.

    The six defendants hugged in the dock and waved to supporters in the public gallery, who cheered loudly after the judge had left the court.

    The jury at Woolwich Crown Court had been deliberating for more than 36 hours after a trial that began in November 2025.
    Rajwani, Rogers and Devlin were found not guilty of violent disorder. No verdict was reached for charges of violent disorder for Head, Corner and Kamio.

    Jurors were also unable to reach a verdict on Corner's charge of causing grievous bodily harm with intent relating to an alleged attack on a security guard.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wxlv99xrjo

    Excellent news. A jury that won't be cowed. This presumably means all the Palestine Action trials will fail. This authoritarianism is what Starmer should be being pilloried for. He's been in Israel's pocket for far too long. All those Labour candidates thrown off lists must be smiling widely.
    Is it excellent news if, as was reported, a security guard was assaulted and no-one is held to account? Does it mean anyone can now act in similar fashion 'because Palestine'? Or 'Because Iran'?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,959
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    1) It wins back votes from Greens and RTBs - the more split the left vote is, the better for the parties aspiring to be the largest party of tge right (and vice versa).
    2) It shifts the Overton window leftwards, making it harder to do right-wing things should Cons regain power.
    Ok. Let's do it then! There's quite a big space to Starmer's left. If you look closely you might even spot me in there waving.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,063

    Cicero said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Does anyone still think Starmer will fight the 2029 GE?

    I’m still not quite sure when he will go, but I simply can’t see this now. He is far too wounded on too many fronts to face the electorate again.

    No.
    The question of when he goes remains an open one.

    If the economy really does pick up, and the immigration numbers continue to decline significantly, then closer to the next general election would surely suit Labour ?

    If not, then they're screwed whatever they do.
    Yes, i do think shrill demands for SKS immediate resignation are not analysing reality but simply are a bit of a performance. I still think Mandelson is an evil and greedy man and think less of Labour because they continued for so many years to nurse him in their bosom, however Blair and Brown are more guilty than Starmer.
    They had more power so would have been capable of greater harm.

    I don't think they were especially corrupt though - certainly not Brown.
    Is Starmer particularly corrupt, or just hopeless ?

    The comparison is surely about the extent of prime ministerial ineptitude rather than their corruption ?

    And to be fair to Blair and Brown, the full extent of Mandelson's dodgy nature was slightly less evident back then.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LE in 2022 when most council seats were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    They dont have overall control in Dudley HYUFD (33 of 72 seats)
    Thanks, Dudley likely goes Reform anyway
    Agreed. Solihull better teritory for the blues, but maybe largest party NoC, Walsall likely fertile for Reform
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,959

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
    So myself and Roger remain top dogs?
    Until 'Heathener' returns.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,641
    edited 1:54PM

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LEs in 2022 when most council seats up in May were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    Wales will be brutal for them - 15% and 14 seats probably best possible return with something like 11% and 9 or 10 most likely
    Scotland they should be aiming for a % and seat return similar to 2011 with min 2 constituency wins (berwickshire and dumfriesshire probably)
    Aiming for but Reform are likely to pick up seats in rural Scotland and could even take Berwickshire and Dumfriesshire from the Tories, Reform will also likely overtake the Tories in Wales too
    Wales, yes, they will.
    I think the Scottish Tory borders vote probably holds on (particularly Berwickshire) - Stranraer and the Rhins was more fertile for Reform (as is D and G generally) and was only fractionally Reform on first preferences and Tory held on transfers
    Eastwood and Ayr might be won on a low % so Tories have at least a chance here if not a good one.
    Latest Yougov Scotland only poll is SNP 34%, Reform 20%, Labour 15%, Conservatives 10%, LDs 10%, Greens 9%.

    So no Scottish Conservative Holyrood constituency is safe, any could go Reform. Reform could gain a few rural SNP seats too

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53977-snp-lead-reform-uk-in-second-in-yougov-january-2026-holyrood-voting-intention
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,401

    Roger said:

    Huzzah for juries ?

    Six Palestine Action activists have been cleared of aggravated burglary over a break-in at a UK subsidiary of an Israeli defence firm.

    Charlotte Head, 29, Samuel Corner, 23, Leona Kamio, 30, Fatema Rajwani, 21, Zoe Rogers, 22, and Jordan Devlin, 31, were also charged with criminal damage and violent disorder but the jury reached partial or no verdicts.

    The alleged raid targeted the Elbit Systems building near Bristol in the early hours of 6 August 2024.

    The six defendants hugged in the dock and waved to supporters in the public gallery, who cheered loudly after the judge had left the court.

    The jury at Woolwich Crown Court had been deliberating for more than 36 hours after a trial that began in November 2025.
    Rajwani, Rogers and Devlin were found not guilty of violent disorder. No verdict was reached for charges of violent disorder for Head, Corner and Kamio.

    Jurors were also unable to reach a verdict on Corner's charge of causing grievous bodily harm with intent relating to an alleged attack on a security guard.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wxlv99xrjo

    Excellent news. A jury that won't be cowed. This presumably means all the Palestine Action trials will fail. This authoritarianism is what Starmer should be being pilloried for. He's been in Israel's pocket for far too long. All those Labour candidates thrown off lists must be smiling widely.
    Is it excellent news if, as was reported, a security guard was assaulted and no-one is held to account? Does it mean anyone can now act in similar fashion 'because Palestine'? Or 'Because Iran'?
    You don't expect Roger to care about a female police officer having a fractured spine and being off work for three months do you?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
    So myself and Roger remain top dogs?
    Until 'Heathener' returns.
    Her Surrey Telegraph reading friend she was forever visiting in tow
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,539

    Roger said:

    Huzzah for juries ?

    Six Palestine Action activists have been cleared of aggravated burglary over a break-in at a UK subsidiary of an Israeli defence firm.

    Charlotte Head, 29, Samuel Corner, 23, Leona Kamio, 30, Fatema Rajwani, 21, Zoe Rogers, 22, and Jordan Devlin, 31, were also charged with criminal damage and violent disorder but the jury reached partial or no verdicts.

    The alleged raid targeted the Elbit Systems building near Bristol in the early hours of 6 August 2024.

    The six defendants hugged in the dock and waved to supporters in the public gallery, who cheered loudly after the judge had left the court.

    The jury at Woolwich Crown Court had been deliberating for more than 36 hours after a trial that began in November 2025.
    Rajwani, Rogers and Devlin were found not guilty of violent disorder. No verdict was reached for charges of violent disorder for Head, Corner and Kamio.

    Jurors were also unable to reach a verdict on Corner's charge of causing grievous bodily harm with intent relating to an alleged attack on a security guard.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wxlv99xrjo

    Excellent news. A jury that won't be cowed. This presumably means all the Palestine Action trials will fail. This authoritarianism is what Starmer should be being pilloried for. He's been in Israel's pocket for far too long. All those Labour candidates thrown off lists must be smiling widely.
    Is it excellent news if, as was reported, a security guard was assaulted and no-one is held to account? Does it mean anyone can now act in similar fashion 'because Palestine'? Or 'Because Iran'?
    Presumably there will be a retrial on GBH charge. At least, there can be a retrial, but it's up to the CPS whether it's worth pursuing that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,063
    Scott_xP said:

    Ange wields the knife

    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    🚨BREAKING: Angela Rayner has intervened to ask that the Intelligence & Security Committee has oversight of release of docs

    This is very significant. It suggests govt amendment as tabled today not adequate/sufficient as it stands & thinks ISC oversight important for transparency/public confidence

    https://bsky.app/profile/peterstefanovic.bsky.social/post/3mdzyccvswk2g

    That's both a manoeuvre, and fully justified.
    It gets more awkward for Starmer.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,959
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    She's in the mix. 3rd fav after Ange and Wes.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,177
    Has Starmer passed Sunak’s time as PM yet?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,668
    Scott_xP said:

    Ange wields the knife

    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    🚨BREAKING: Angela Rayner has intervened to ask that the Intelligence & Security Committee has oversight of release of docs

    This is very significant. It suggests govt amendment as tabled today not adequate/sufficient as it stands & thinks ISC oversight important for transparency/public confidence

    https://bsky.app/profile/peterstefanovic.bsky.social/post/3mdzyccvswk2g

    Ange is on manoeuvres.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,409

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    Not hated - just ridiculed
    So myself and Roger remain top dogs?
    Leon is hated by the largest number of people. But he’s also loved by a lot of them. Roger is probably second in the hate stakes, he’s a consistent paedophile-phile after all, so doesn’t get much love away from the Oscars.

    You probably come quite high in the contempt deserved table, but I doubt that you muster much hatred
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LEs in 2022 when most council seats up in May were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    Wales will be brutal for them - 15% and 14 seats probably best possible return with something like 11% and 9 or 10 most likely
    Scotland they should be aiming for a % and seat return similar to 2011 with min 2 constituency wins (berwickshire and dumfriesshire probably)
    Aiming for but Reform are likely to pick up seats in rural Scotland and could even take Berwickshire and Dumfriesshire from the Tories, Reform will also likely overtake the Tories in Wales too
    Wales, yes, they will.
    I think the Scottish Tory borders vote probably holds on (particularly Berwickshire) - Stranraer and the Rhins was more fertile for Reform (as is D and G generally) and was only fractionally Reform on first preferences and Tory held on transfers
    Eastwood and Ayr might be won on a low % so Tories have at least a chance here if not a good one.
    Latest Yougov Scotland only poll is SNP 34%, Reform 20%, Labour 15%, Conservatives 10%, LDs 10%, Greens 9%.

    So no Scottish Conservative Holyrood constituency is safe, any could go Reform. Reform could gain a few rural SNP seats too

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53977-snp-lead-reform-uk-in-second-in-yougov-january-2026-holyrood-voting-intention
    Im not suggesting any of them are safe. I would be surprised if they did lose Berwickshire though.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,507

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    Afaicr she polls pretty badly with the party.
    She’s Asian of Pakistani heritage, female, representing a working class inner city seat.

    Course she polls badly with them.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    boulay said:

    Has Starmer passed Sunak’s time as PM yet?

    19th March
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 46

    Leon said:

    This is, surely, the end


    “Starmer's defence appears to be...
    I knew Mandelson was best friends with a child sex trafficker but I didn't know how often they hung out.
    Indefensible. He's finished”

    https://x.com/jonnocalypse/status/2019039878055682381?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    It turned out that he was just too good friends with a paedo trafficker for my liking

    Scott_xP said:

    Ange wields the knife

    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    🚨BREAKING: Angela Rayner has intervened to ask that the Intelligence & Security Committee has oversight of release of docs

    This is very significant. It suggests govt amendment as tabled today not adequate/sufficient as it stands & thinks ISC oversight important for transparency/public confidence

    https://bsky.app/profile/peterstefanovic.bsky.social/post/3mdzyccvswk2g

    Yes it is. Ange agreeing with what Kemi asked for at PMQs (and what I posted last night). Government cannot hide behind “security” when they can share it with ISC.
    Very significant intervention by Ange.

    Not linked to Badenoch but to her own question about PPE at height of Tory sleaze in 2022

    A very astute intervention from Rayner.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,539
    Even if he announced he was going now, by the time a replacement was found, he'd have overtaken Sunak.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,847
    boulay said:

    Has Starmer passed Sunak’s time as PM yet?

    Gordon Brown is the key one - shortest serving Labour PM at 2 y 318 d
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,219
    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Senior Labour source says it is "100%" certain the government will have to agree to give the Intelligence Security Committee oversight of the Mandelson vetting documents.

    Follows pressure from Angela Rayner and others.

    Government in a panic over this now
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 46

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    She is doing sensible things, which makes her unpopular with the hand-wringing wokerati membership.

    She could only become PM if she stood unopposed.
    She is building a formidable reputation as an achiever and deliverer.

    As others with similar capabilities on both sides if the house have often found that creates too many enemies to enable a leadership bid.

    David Davis and Robin Cook perfect examples
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,697
    Spectacularly busy at the moment hence posting and even visiting infrequently.

    But, Starmer doesn't survive this, surely

    And Streeting is a Mandelson protege, so...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,401
    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    Afaicr she polls pretty badly with the party.
    She’s Asian of Pakistani heritage, female, representing a working class inner city seat.

    Course she polls badly with them.
    To be fair I think she is quite conservative with a small c.

    However the grassroots' complete rejection of her does show the extent to which they don't want any compromise with the electorate on social issues.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,507

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LE in 2022 when most council seats were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    They dont have overall control in Dudley HYUFD (33 of 72 seats)
    Thanks, Dudley likely goes Reform anyway
    Agreed. Solihull better teritory for the blues, but maybe largest party NoC, Walsall likely fertile for Reform
    Greens don’t do too bad in parts of Solihull. Seem to have taken up from the old ‘independent ratepayers’, however quite how their brand of Corbynite politics will go down there remains to be seen.

    Not really fertile territory for the Wealth Tax now, fuck landlords, transvestites are women, free Gaza, reparations now brand of politics from the Greens.

    It will be a hung council. Lib Dem’s will do well and Reform should do well in Chelmsley Wood.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,415
    Scott_xP said:

    @jessicaelgot.bsky.social‬

    I have never seen anger like this on the Labour benches in private and in public. This is the kind of territory where things can move very fast.

    Can see the MSM/Social Media herding instincts are strong today with the stopped clock approach. Perhaps Mark Twain's comment should apply here "The reports of my (political) death are greatly exaggerated"

    It's like some sort of playground where everyone wants to be first with the 'news' without any consideration of the intermediate steps to get to the declared end point. Suppose it keeps them amused for a few hours/clicks.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,600
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:



    One good joke and seven bad ones.

    I reckon my “Pants Peer” beats them all
    You're an enthusiastic marketer of your own wares, I'll give you that.
    I'm a postie. I think I'm entitled to some pride in the political pun nicknames that I've coined
    It's fine, just ribbing. Your politics are a bit seamy but otherwise you have your moments.
    Patronising twat. You’re a f*cking retired accountant
    *Chartered*
    Shaun: You're the one that's gone from being a chartered accountant to Charlton Heston!

    David: I'm not a chartered accountant!

    Shaun: Well, you look like one!

    Ed: YEAH!

    David: I'm a lecturer.

    Shaun: You're a twat!

    Ed: YEAH!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,539

    Spectacularly busy at the moment hence posting and even visiting infrequently.

    But, Starmer doesn't survive this, surely

    And Streeting is a Mandelson protege, so...

    1.62:1 available on Betfair for Starmer to leave this year.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,485

    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Very powerful start by Starmer.

    Unequivocal.

    Kemi fails to land any real blow on Starmer, he may be hiding behind the fact that Mandy lied to him but it's something she failed to make any progress on.

    As he rightly points out this is now a Police matter.

    She asks a specific question that she knows he cannot answer. Mandelson clearly told lies that's clear.

    Her failure to accept national security issue demeans her, demeans protocol and is completely hypocritical.

    Tory benches remarkably quiet given the circumstances, grandees sitting on their hands shaking heads.

    Let's repeat Boris redacted 20 pages and released 2.

    She's talking to 20 front benchetsbthe rest of her Party are aghast at her incompetence.

    A resounding and statesman like win for Starmer.

    Cleverly would have far better.

    Tory benches sat on complete silence.

    Open goal she puts the ball over the Stands

    It's the way you tell 'em!
    I think we might have found the new most hated poster on PB. You and me are now simply vying for silver and bronze.
    You need to learn the difference between “hated” and “ridiculed”
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,959

    kinabalu said:

    The question is why did Starmer appoint him. It could be because he thought he'd be good at it or more likely I'd suggest to placate Mandelson and stop him interfering in Westminster.

    Spot on, Frank. Why, indeed?

    We don't yet know the answer to that question. If we had a decent Press, we might find out sooner rather than later. In fact we are more likely to reach an informed opinion on this through following some of the better posters on here.

    May take a while though.
    What Starmer can’t admit (because in hindsight it looks like a shockingly bad and maybe career-ending decision) is that he needed an ambassador to the US that he felt could do business with Trump, and, either due to McSweeney’s prompting, or party politics, or what he saw as simple realpolitik he decided that Peter Mandelson was an appropriate choice and if there were risks they were risks worth taking. That seems to be the crux of it.
    That's right. If Mandelson's ease (like Trump) in Epstein and Epstein type circles was seen as a positive in the context of the appointment that cannot be admitted in public.
    But I poo poo this whole idea Trump needed a “celebrity slime ball politician” UK Ambassador.

    You have people born to be diplomats because of their disposition, who also learn on the job - slimeball politicians have neither the disposition or experience.

    Such people likely on the make their entire lives, so if appointed can use the position to continue to be on the make.

    I would put it that you need the right “psychological maturity” from an Ambassador. Just listen to how Mandelson had been DEFENDING TRUMP in recent weeks over claims to Greenland.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/08/mandelson-accuses-european-leaders-of-histrionic-reaction-to-trump-greenland-stance

    https://spectator.com/article/europe-needs-to-get-on-board-with-trumps-plans-for-greenland/

    He’s allowed himself to be groomed all over again!
    Agreed. It's a pity you weren't on the vetting team.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,725

    boulay said:

    Has Starmer passed Sunak’s time as PM yet?

    19th March
    It's worth noting that we haven't even seen all the Epstein documents, so there could be yet more Mandelson revelations to come. Starmer needs to ponder whether it's better to go now of his own volition, rather than be forced out if even worse revelations appear.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,409
    Slalom move incoming to amend the government amendment
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,277
    boulay said:

    Has Starmer passed Sunak’s time as PM yet?

    He's still short, but if we assume he stays on while the Labour Party hold a leadership contest, then he's quite likely surpass Sunak's tenure. Six weeks to go.

    Eden is another 24 days on.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,697
    Woke up in the middle of the night having a dream that to propose a fix for the country that had a chance of (a) getting elected and (b) not falling apart very quickly, Zack Polanski, Ed Davey and Nigel Farage agreed to form an electoral pact, running as the Radical Alliance. A merger of some of the Greens radicalism, Reform's populism, and the LibDems compassion as a way to pull the UK out of this interminable swamp we're mired in.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,030
    edited 2:11PM
    What seems to have happened is that the security services and whoever does “vetting” have been supremely negligent.

    All we (and perhaps Starmer) knew is that Mandelson had perhaps failed to sever himself entirely after Epstein’s conviction in 2008. At the highest level, that might not rule out sending Mandelson to Washington given the unique character of Trump and the vital need to wield influence in the context of war in Ukraine.

    In fact, I welcomed Mandelson’s appointment myself (and note that I was the first person on PB to call for his resignation and investigation in an overnight thread when this fresh tranche of emails broke).

    I think we need to understand what the fuck has happened to British intelligence. Mandelson, nor Andrew for that matter, ought to have been “allowed” to happen.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,321
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,409

    Woke up in the middle of the night having a dream that to propose a fix for the country that had a chance of (a) getting elected and (b) not falling apart very quickly, Zack Polanski, Ed Davey and Nigel Farage agreed to form an electoral pact, running as the Radical Alliance. A merger of some of the Greens radicalism, Reform's populism, and the LibDems compassion as a way to pull the UK out of this interminable swamp we're mired in.

    Did you eat magic mushrooms before you went to bed?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,600
    Nigelb said:
    "Nothing to see here! Please move along!"
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,030

    Woke up in the middle of the night having a dream that to propose a fix for the country that had a chance of (a) getting elected and (b) not falling apart very quickly, Zack Polanski, Ed Davey and Nigel Farage agreed to form an electoral pact, running as the Radical Alliance. A merger of some of the Greens radicalism, Reform's populism, and the LibDems compassion as a way to pull the UK out of this interminable swamp we're mired in.

    You may wish to reduce your meds dosage.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,219
    Journo says Starmer is helped by lack of any obvious successor

    Ange says hold my beer...
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,409

    What seems to have happened is that the security services and whoever does “vetting” have been supremely negligent.

    All we (and perhaps Starmer) knew is that Mandelson had perhaps failed to sever himself entirely after Epstein’s conviction in 2008. At the highest level, that might not rule out sending Mandelson to Washington given the unique character of Trump and the vital need to wield influence in the context of war in Ukraine.

    In fact, I welcomed Mandelson’s appointment myself (and note that I was the first person on PB to call for his resignation and investigation in an overnight thread when this fresh tranche of emails broke).

    I think we need to understand what the fuck has happened to British intelligence. Mandelson, nor Andrew for that matter, ought to have been “allowed” to happen.

    They were forensically directed to not report red flags
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,668
    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Senior Labour source says it is "100%" certain the government will have to agree to give the Intelligence Security Committee oversight of the Mandelson vetting documents.

    Follows pressure from Angela Rayner and others.

    Government in a panic over this now

    Starting to feel precarious for them now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,959

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    Afaicr she polls pretty badly with the party.
    She’s Asian of Pakistani heritage, female, representing a working class inner city seat.

    Course she polls badly with them.
    To be fair I think she is quite conservative with a small c.

    However the grassroots' complete rejection of her does show the extent to which they don't want any compromise with the electorate on social issues.
    She's 8/1 third fav not a rank outsider.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,507

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:


    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    On this. A Conservative spokesman says: “The PM has just admitted that the official security vetting highlighted Mandelson’s ongoing relationship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but he went ahead and appointed him anyway.

    “This is the first time the PM has admitted this and it raises very serious questions over Keir Starmer’s shocking judgement.

    “The PM is now trying to orchestrate a cover up by having his own government mark his homework. All MPs must now support the Conservatives’ humble address so that we reveal the full extent of this scandal and the shocking failure of Keir Starmer and his operation.”

    Wow. This is high-stakes stuff. If Kemi can get Sir Keir's head on a pike (perfectly possible) then we could see her acclaimed as the most accomplished politician of her generation. That could totally change the dynamics, with even Nigel metaphorically having to kiss her ring on bended knee.
    It's not necessarily to Kemi's advantage to see Starmer removed and replaced by someone a) better at politics and/or b) more left wing. Much better to let Starmer hobble on, crippled.
    Why would she not want Labour to tack left?
    Kemi would want Rayner or Ed Miliband to replace Starmer if he was removed yes, she wouldn't want Streeting.

    Farage would want Ed Miliband, Polanski would not want Ed Miliband but would be OK with Streeting. Burnham would have been the worst option as Labour leader for Reform and the Greens but that has now been avoided for now
    I haven’t noticed Mahmoud floated as a potential leader. I don’t know enough about her politics but as a rightie she seems to be quite a capabable person so perhaps the least worst option for someone of my leanings. She might make Marx look like Norman Tebbit and I’ve missed it but would be interesting to know if she is an option.
    Afaicr she polls pretty badly with the party.
    She’s Asian of Pakistani heritage, female, representing a working class inner city seat.

    Course she polls badly with them.
    To be fair I think she is quite conservative with a small c.

    However the grassroots' complete rejection of her does show the extent to which they don't want any compromise with the electorate on social issues.
    I quite like her and, oddly, I find her quite sexy too.

    I think she is more in tune with the voters than the members.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,277

    Woke up in the middle of the night having a dream that to propose a fix for the country that had a chance of (a) getting elected and (b) not falling apart very quickly, Zack Polanski, Ed Davey and Nigel Farage agreed to form an electoral pact, running as the Radical Alliance. A merger of some of the Greens radicalism, Reform's populism, and the LibDems compassion as a way to pull the UK out of this interminable swamp we're mired in.

    Sounds more like a nightmare than a dream.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,321
    More problems for Starmer

    https://x.com/i/status/2019041263945666665
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,668
    Thornberry also suggesting it should go to the committee.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,507

    Woke up in the middle of the night having a dream that to propose a fix for the country that had a chance of (a) getting elected and (b) not falling apart very quickly, Zack Polanski, Ed Davey and Nigel Farage agreed to form an electoral pact, running as the Radical Alliance. A merger of some of the Greens radicalism, Reform's populism, and the LibDems compassion as a way to pull the UK out of this interminable swamp we're mired in.

    Sounds utterly abysmal.

    Compassion, unless you’re a sub postmaster with a dodgy till.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,030
    I also think it’s a very bad precedent for the Commons to legislate to remove someone from the Lords.

    The Lords themselves need to deal with their own.

    This is perhaps an academic question now that Mandelson has resigned.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,873
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Woolie fly by, afternoon all.
    Is Mandy the end of Starmer? Maybe. A big rebellion on the humble address cover up amendment woukd assist in that.
    If it did, don't waste your mobey on Wes as his social media and piccy closeness to Petey will do for his chances short term.
    PM Ange by June? Stranger things have happened.

    On local elections 26 (if not mentioned) the cancellations are very useful for the Toriea. There are very few councils up they can 'lose control' of outside London (where i expect them to gain 2 or 3 and lose 2) - they retain Broxbourne regardless as elected in thirds, theyve a chance of holding Fareham (half up) and theyll probably lose Newcaste Under Lyme and Walsall with Solihull in the balance. They will lose control of Essex and Hampshire. So the 'damage' will mostly be Scotland and Wales.
    Labour, on the other hand, will get butchered everywhere.

    Hope all are well

    The Tories could also lose Dudley but yes given Labour won the LE in 2022 when most council seats were last up the results should be better for Kemi than last year given those seats were last up in 2021 when the Tories won the LEs.

    Unfortunately as you say Scotland and Wales were also last up in 2021 so the Tories will likely see big losses there as will Labour in Wales, though Labour might on a good night make a few gains from the SNP in Scotland as they were 3rd in Scotland behind the Tories in 2021 and Reform will mainly eat into the Scottish Tory vote
    They dont have overall control in Dudley HYUFD (33 of 72 seats)
    Thanks, Dudley likely goes Reform anyway
    Agreed. Solihull better teritory for the blues, but maybe largest party NoC, Walsall likely fertile for Reform
    Greens don’t do too bad in parts of Solihull. Seem to have taken up from the old ‘independent ratepayers’, however quite how their brand of Corbynite politics will go down there remains to be seen.

    Not really fertile territory for the Wealth Tax now, fuck landlords, transvestites are women, free Gaza, reparations now brand of politics from the Greens.

    It will be a hung council. Lib Dem’s will do well and Reform should do well in Chelmsley Wood.
    You missed out "let's wind up NATO".
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