Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
How is tacking on an ammendment that disallows the release of anything deemed to pertain to 'security or foreign relations' reasonable? The emails that have already been released have national security and foreign relations implications. Under that amendment, it could all have been held back.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
What was known about Mandelson by the general public on the day of his appointment was enough to disqualify him from any important government position
He had been fired twice for impropriety
Then we knew he was friends with a paedo billionaire crook
Then the Prime Minister appointed him
The default assumption must be that 'due diligence' over the Mandelson appointment with security services and secret information gatherers would have to be exceptionally thorough given his past and his known connections.
The other default assumption must be that between them MI5, MI5, Special Branch, GCHQ and the overseas intelligence agencies with whom we had a good relationship will have known quite a lot of what we now know, and, safe to say, quite a lot more that we don't. Human nature is what it is.
Which is the bit or bits in the process which have gone wrong and why is a central question. There seem to me no possibilities that are not quite disconcerting.
Are you sure the snoopy services are that good? They would have to have tapped into these emails at the time they were being sent?
For example the smoking gun here, PantyPete sharing info he shouldn’t have with a financier friend. You are claiming to us the snoopy services have been sitting on this? You saying they put it into the dossier they showed Starmer?
I will repeat.
Email bounces through servers, completely unencrypted. A river of postcards. Due to the way the servers work, they leave a copy on each server, until erased.
For many, many years, intelligence services have hovered these up. It takes little effort and produces a huge pile of stuff to sift through.
Everyone does this.
Did the security services look at Mandy’s emails? We don’t know.
But for far less sensitive jobs, they are trawled.
Are there not email services you can use that - provided your recipient also uses such a service - the email will be encrypted from end-to-end?
Yes.
Protonmail is the obvious choice. If you use it, and so does your recipient, it will be encrypted.
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that, although that makes it rather more like a messaging service.
Presumably you have to use their web service or client for it to work properly.
Course all this encryption stuff assumes the people you're trying to hide messages from can't already access the two devices. Something pretty likely if that person is in a US spy agency and probably any spy agency within the developed world.
Yes the Mandelson photos will likely boost Reform and the Greens in Gorton and Denton. Though Labour made a sensible choice picking a female local councillor as their candidate
Reform deserve to benefit from Labour's Epstein adjacency. As Nigel explained today. Nigel is only mentioned 37 times which is within the threshold for not really being in the Epstein files.
All depends on context
Even if it is only one mention but that is Farage writing "Dear Jeffrey, thanks for the wonderful weekend, where do you find all those lovely young ladies? " then he would be in deep do-do.
On the other hand if it is Mandelson writing to Epstein saying, "that Farage is an awful oik, don't let him anywhere near your island" then Farage is probably not in any sort of trouble.
Context is king.
So… what do the mentions of Farage say?
I think they're mostly Epstein eulogising about his thighs.
“At the golf club this afternoon, a new potential member has turned up. Surrounded by beautiful women but I am magnetically attracted below the level of the bar at his magnificent thighs. I introduce myself, Hi I’m Nigel, you have magnificent thighs. He chuckles, yes I do, but I have more magnificent underage girls and campaign finances. I know people scoff at first sight but I was hooked. We drank, laughed, giggled even, about how democracy was a joke and how we, and when I say”we” I mean me and Jeffrey (or was it Jacob?..) could rid the whole world from foreigners - he even said he could sort outa visa for me. Also met this breast friend Jizz-lane. Don’t know if was her name, address or a joke. Anyway, some guy called Tommy has bought me a pint, better go.”
Yes the Mandelson photos will likely boost Reform and the Greens in Gorton and Denton. Though Labour made a sensible choice picking a female local councillor as their candidate
Reform deserve to benefit from Labour's Epstein adjacency. As Nigel explained today. Nigel is only mentioned 37 times which is within the threshold for not really being in the Epstein files.
All depends on context
Even if it is only one mention but that is Farage writing "Dear Jeffrey, thanks for the wonderful weekend, where do you find all those lovely young ladies? " then he would be in deep do-do.
On the other hand if it is Mandelson writing to Epstein saying, "that Farage is an awful oik, don't let him anywhere near your island" then Farage is probably not in any sort of trouble.
Context is king.
Surely he is now Peter Mountbatten-Windsor?
Formerly known as the prince of darkness. Apols if someone else has already nicked this off twitter.
Yes the Mandelson photos will likely boost Reform and the Greens in Gorton and Denton. Though Labour made a sensible choice picking a female local councillor as their candidate
Reform deserve to benefit from Labour's Epstein adjacency. As Nigel explained today. Nigel is only mentioned 37 times which is within the threshold for not really being in the Epstein files.
All depends on context
Even if it is only one mention but that is Farage writing "Dear Jeffrey, thanks for the wonderful weekend, where do you find all those lovely young ladies? " then he would be in deep do-do.
On the other hand if it is Mandelson writing to Epstein saying, "that Farage is an awful oik, don't let him anywhere near your island" then Farage is probably not in any sort of trouble.
Context is king.
Surely he is now Peter Mountbatten-Windsor?
Formerly known as the prince of darkness. Apols if someone else has already nicked this off twitter.
Sky reporting that the government is to lay an amendment to tomorrows debate agreeing to release some but not all documents
The question now is will labour mps defeat the amendment
The Epstein files are held by the US DOJ not the UK government
Maybe the daughter of a former Labour MP and Mossad spy.
Cough.
Look! A squirrel!
You will have to explain that for me. Both my points are factual and CIA former agents are suggesting an Israeli link with Epstein. Cough, Eduad Barak.
I have made it clear today that Mandelson is most likely a traitor. I was the first on here to suggest this scandal (the one from 2009/2010 is as big as Profumo).
I was agreeing with you. No one is really mentioning this daughter, and the points you raise, and the part she plays and maybe continues to play. Maybe. Allegedly. Perhaps.
We’re chasing squirrels at the moment, whilst not really appreciating any Mossad/FSB involvement. Maybe. Allegedly. Perhaps.
I believe Epstein's political tentacles touched all sorts of unpleasant people.
How better to generate kompromat on dumb-f***, venal movers and shakers that put them in bed with a thirteen year old Russian girl.
Couldn’t agree more. Although I’m not sure those tentacles were initially his. He was given a head-start by someone and helped onwards from there. For the reasons you describe.
Labour MPs deleting any mention of Mandy from their social media (Darren Jones, Wes Streeting) and I don’t think Sir Keir will be saying “ to us he’s just ‘Peter’ “ in a hurry.
It’s all getting a bit “I never really knew Sir Jimmy”
Labour MPs deleting any mention of Mandy from their social media (Darren Jones, Wes Streeting) and I don’t think Sir Keir will be saying “ to us he’s just ‘Peter’ “ in a hurry.
It’s all getting a bit “I never really knew Sir Jimmy”
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
Starmer should announce a public enquiry into Epstein’s influence amd activities in the UK where they will request testimony from US nationals implicated asap. Get @Cyclefree to chair.
If Starmer amendment is defeated which means his mps have voted with Kemi then how can he continue as PM
High stakes for him tomorrow
Easily, because the amendment is about national security.
And if he loses the amendment
Then parliament has gone a bit mad. First duty of the PM is national security and he can hardly be expected to not make such an amendment. I guess you'd have a minor constitutional crisis but it wouldn't be Starmer who came out of it badly (or at least any worse than he is now).
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
"Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up..." sounds like every news story about Mandelson down the many, many years.
Labour MPs deleting any mention of Mandy from their social media (Darren Jones, Wes Streeting) and I don’t think Sir Keir will be saying “ to us he’s just ‘Peter’ “ in a hurry.
It’s all getting a bit “I never really knew Sir Jimmy”
What a lad Mandy is.
A Viz commemorative plate surely beckons, but more importantly was he ever given the keys to Stoke Mandyville hospital, like another famous celebrity figure who was hospital "night porter" for several years?
"Peter Mandelson faces criminal investigation over Epstein emails
Former cabinet minister, who is ‘retiring’ from Lords, will be questioned by police about allegations he leaked sensitive information to paedophile financier" (£)
As funny as this all is… what we have seen is supposed emails from Mandy. I’m a bit old fashioned and we don’t know if they were from him (probable) but could also be manipulated by Epstein or others to use.
I am very uncomfortable with the current torch and pitchfork situation removing his peerage etc (I really don’t like him) because I believe in innocent until proven guilty and he has as much protection under the law as anyone and so shouldn’t be penalised until proven to have been a legally bad ‘un.
I would bet one of my kidneys he was bad but please let’s allow justice and procedure to win not mob justice.
I think there is more than enough evidence that Mandleson has always been about money and greed, not probity, for us to light torches and hold pitchforks this evening.
If it wasn’t Epstein - who Mandy continued close to even after Epstein was convicted of child abuse - it was dodgy Russian Mafia - did he not famously bump into Osborne on a Oligock Yart? Two cabinet resignations for proper serious housing fraud - that make Angies misdemeanour a mere talking to from ref not even yellow card.
People like Mandleson - completely greedy and sell their soul for money - are such obvious security risk when allowed into sensitive positions. Indeed, Sending a financier details of government financial decisions minutes after they were made in Cabinet, has a whiff of treason against UK about it. I’m surprised Brown has taken it so mildly and Blair so silent about it.
You could argue if true context comes across from reading emails. And ask if Trump regime selectively releasing, they have certainly shredded anything very damaging to Trump, so Trump is safe now from Epstein scandal.
Old Fashioned? Torches and pitchforks old fashioned, you got it from old fashioned Hammered movies.
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
Starmer should announce a public enquiry into Epstein’s influence amd activities in the UK where they will request testimony from US nationals implicated asap. Get @Cyclefree to chair.
I am the righteous hand of God And I am the devil that you forgot And I told you, one day, you will see That I'll be back, I guarantee And that hell's coming, hell's coming Hell, hell's coming with me
And it is well with my soul You line your pockets full of money That you steal from the poor And on your way down the hill You hear me ringing that bell And I say Hell's coming (hell's coming) with me
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
Starmer should announce a public enquiry into Epstein’s influence amd activities in the UK where they will request testimony from US nationals implicated asap. Get @Cyclefree to chair.
Starmer's immediate jeopardy is employing Mandelson as Ambassador. He cannot deny it, it turned into a f*** up. He can't get away with it by saying Johnson, blah,blah, blah. He has to justify the risk and apologise.
A judge led Public Inquiry is inevitable for what happened for every day Mandelson was in Cabinet. This is Profumo (a Junior Minister) on steroids.
"Peter Mandelson faces criminal investigation over Epstein emails
Former cabinet minister, who is ‘retiring’ from Lords, will be questioned by police about allegations he leaked sensitive information to paedophile financier" (£)
As funny as this all is… what we have seen is supposed emails from Mandy. I’m a bit old fashioned and we don’t know if they were from him (probable) but could also be manipulated by Epstein or others to use.
I am very uncomfortable with the current torch and pitchfork situation removing his peerage etc (I really don’t like him) because I believe in innocent until proven guilty and he has as much protection under the law as anyone and so shouldn’t be penalised until proven to have been a legally bad ‘un.
I would bet one of my kidneys he was bad but please let’s allow justice and procedure to win not mob justice.
I think there is more than enough evidence that Mandleson has always been about money and greed, not probity, for us to light torches and hold pitchforks this evening.
If it wasn’t Epstein - who Mandy continued close to even after Epstein was convicted of child abuse - it was dodgy Russian Mafia - did he not famously bump into Osborne on a Oligock Yart? Two cabinet resignations for proper serious housing fraud - that make Angies misdemeanour a mere talking to from ref not even yellow card.
People like Mandleson - completely greedy and sell their soul for money - are such obvious security risk when allowed into sensitive positions. Indeed, Sending a financier details of government financial decisions minutes after they were made in Cabinet, has a whiff of treason against UK about it. I’m surprised Brown has taken it so mildly and Blair so silent about it.
You could argue if true context comes across from reading emails. And ask if Trump regime selectively releasing, they have certainly shredded anything very damaging to Trump, so Trump is safe now from Epstein scandal.
Old Fashioned? Torches and pitchforks old fashioned, you got it from old fashioned Hammered movies.
Silly me, I just prefer evidence that stands up in a court of law rather than feels. I’m certain he has done wrong but just want due process rather than mob rule.
"Peter Mandelson faces criminal investigation over Epstein emails
Former cabinet minister, who is ‘retiring’ from Lords, will be questioned by police about allegations he leaked sensitive information to paedophile financier" (£)
As funny as this all is… what we have seen is supposed emails from Mandy. I’m a bit old fashioned and we don’t know if they were from him (probable) but could also be manipulated by Epstein or others to use.
I am very uncomfortable with the current torch and pitchfork situation removing his peerage etc (I really don’t like him) because I believe in innocent until proven guilty and he has as much protection under the law as anyone and so shouldn’t be penalised until proven to have been a legally bad ‘un.
I would bet one of my kidneys he was bad but please let’s allow justice and procedure to win not mob justice.
I think there is more than enough evidence that Mandleson has always been about money and greed, not probity, for us to light torches and hold pitchforks this evening.
If it wasn’t Epstein - who Mandy continued close to even after Epstein was convicted of child abuse - it was dodgy Russian Mafia - did he not famously bump into Osborne on a Oligock Yart? Two cabinet resignations for proper serious housing fraud - that make Angies misdemeanour a mere talking to from ref not even yellow card.
People like Mandleson - completely greedy and sell their soul for money - are such obvious security risk when allowed into sensitive positions. Indeed, Sending a financier details of government financial decisions minutes after they were made in Cabinet, has a whiff of treason against UK about it. I’m surprised Brown has taken it so mildly and Blair so silent about it.
You could argue if true context comes across from reading emails. And ask if Trump regime selectively releasing, they have certainly shredded anything very damaging to Trump, so Trump is safe now from Epstein scandal.
Old Fashioned? Torches and pitchforks old fashioned, you got it from old fashioned Hammered movies.
Silly me, I just prefer evidence that stands up in a court of law rather than feels. I’m certain he has done wrong but just want due process rather than mob rule.
Forget the emails and whether they are real or not.
He said he never saw any girls, and, lo, there is a picture of him stood next to a girl. I don't think anyone is claiming it to be AI.
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
"Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up..." sounds like every news story about Mandelson down the many, many years.
They say that repeating the same actions and expecting a different result is insanity.
Mandelbrot had previous resigned twice as a government minister, due to his behaviour. Plus other scandals.
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
Starmer should announce a public enquiry into Epstein’s influence amd activities in the UK where they will request testimony from US nationals implicated asap. Get @Cyclefree to chair.
I am the righteous hand of God And I am the devil that you forgot And I told you, one day, you will see That I'll be back, I guarantee And that hell's coming, hell's coming Hell, hell's coming with me
And it is well with my soul You line your pockets full of money That you steal from the poor And on your way down the hill You hear me ringing that bell And I say Hell's coming (hell's coming) with me
If some of the testimony is to be believed amongst this 3 million pages of human depravity, then hell, and a particularly nasty part of it, is where some people have visited.
PMQs, and Commons debate and votes much easier for Starmer, due to releasing the paper trail at 11:45 before commanded to do so. How do I know this for certain? It’s logically what we would all do isn’t it - pre empt PMQs and Commons debates and kill rebellions, by releasing the asked for paper trail just minutes before.
But the killer line that’s trouble for Starmer, Mandleson vox popped on US street last year saying that there’s worse than that to come out. If Mandleson is prepared to be open like that to news camera on an American street, what did he say in private to Starmer? You will see that exchange to camera again on TV news this week.
If Starmer amendment is defeated which means his mps have voted with Kemi then how can he continue as PM
High stakes for him tomorrow
I think you are looking at this through the prism of Currygate. The Mandelson treachery is way bigger.
There is not an insubstantial risk that this could do for Starmer on judgement grounds. Whichever way you look at it Starmer demonstrated poor judgement. If he can't defend his judgement call satisfactorily Starmer is done for. Then ARINACASKSIPM.
PMQs, and Commons debate and votes much easier for Starmer, due to releasing the paper trail at 11:45 before commanded to do so. How do I know this for certain? It’s logically what we would all do isn’t it - pre empt PMQs and Commons debates and kill rebellions, by releasing the asked for paper trail just minutes before.
But the killer line that’s trouble for Starmer, Mandleson vox popped on US street last year saying that there’s worse than that to come out. If Mandleson is prepared to be open like that to news camera on an American street, what did he say in private to Starmer? You will see that exchange to camera again on TV news this week.
Starmer has to be contrite. Otherwise he is f*****. This is not the fault of Truss or Johnson. He made a call. It went wrong. Why was he prepared to take the risk? He might have to throw Donald Trump under the bus again.
I cannot begin to consider what makes Mandelson tick.
Starmer is up Shit Street, but this seems reasonable to me. Do they pay Harry Cole for this shite?
He is. But I doubt if Epstein's main victims, the women he and his pals abused, will take much succour from the downfall of Sir Keir Starmer.
I believe we are beyond worrying about the victims. Certainly Farage doesn't give two ****s. I mentioned yesterday that Maria Farmer's testimony to the FBI remains in the 3 million unreleased documents still in the possession of Kash Patel.
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
Starmer should announce a public enquiry into Epstein’s influence amd activities in the UK where they will request testimony from US nationals implicated asap. Get @Cyclefree to chair.
Those who want Public Enquiries must realise 1) you don’t get the chair you prefer (Starmer will appoint Sue Gray) 2) its stops you asking questions for how many years? as questions, regardless what next batch of leaks suggest, are too easily batted away with “yes it’s important to get to the bottom of this, is why I set up the enquiry, now we all need to wait patently for the enquiry findings” By then torch and pitchfork moment is long gone regardless how incendiary the report findings 3) you prepared for the cost of the enquiry? It equates to how many cancer screenings, hospital beds - it costs reform councils £75,000 putting up 164 Union Jack flags, look how many they could do for the cost of the enquiry you want.
PMQs, and Commons debate and votes much easier for Starmer, due to releasing the paper trail at 11:45 before commanded to do so. How do I know this for certain? It’s logically what we would all do isn’t it - pre empt PMQs and Commons debates and kill rebellions, by releasing the asked for paper trail just minutes before.
But the killer line that’s trouble for Starmer, Mandleson vox popped on US street last year saying that there’s worse than that to come out. If Mandleson is prepared to be open like that to news camera on an American street, what did he say in private to Starmer? You will see that exchange to camera again on TV news this week.
Starmer has to be contrite. Otherwise he is f*****. This is not the fault of Truss or Johnson. He made a call. It went wrong. Why was he prepared to take the risk? He might have to throw Donald Trump under the bus again.
I cannot begin to consider what makes Mandelson tick.
You know what makes Boris Johnson tick? You know what makes Donald Trump tick. Same thing. They believe in magic money trees put on earth for their own convenience.
Starmer's been beaten to sacking his hand picked US Ambassador by Kemi, then beaten in sacking him from the party and the House of Lords by Mandy himself. What has Slalom got left to actually throw him out of?
Kemi is having a much better 2026 than Starmer.
Bad news for Labour.
Kemi was dismantled, spat out and eviscerated at her last Pmq even Tories admit that.
Tomorrow she has an open goal and Team Starmer all off the pitch. I am still not predicting a 6-0 win.
If Starmer amendment is defeated which means his mps have voted with Kemi then how can he continue as PM
High stakes for him tomorrow
I think you are looking at this through the prism of Currygate. The Mandelson treachery is way bigger.
There is not an insubstantial risk that this could do for Starmer on judgement grounds. Whichever way you look at it Starmer demonstrated poor judgement. If he can't defend his judgement call satisfactorily Starmer is done for. Then ARINACASKSIPM.
Currygate has never gone away you know. It can still be proven - by security detail - Starmer and Rayner were partying up there completely against the rules at the time. Big G was right.
You know the administrative error that “forgot” Angie was actually there? It’s because she travelled for the party, did none of the associated meetings, canvassing and work that day. It’s amazing they have got away with it so far.
PMQs, and Commons debate and votes much easier for Starmer, due to releasing the paper trail at 11:45 before commanded to do so. How do I know this for certain? It’s logically what we would all do isn’t it - pre empt PMQs and Commons debates and kill rebellions, by releasing the asked for paper trail just minutes before.
But the killer line that’s trouble for Starmer, Mandleson vox popped on US street last year saying that there’s worse than that to come out. If Mandleson is prepared to be open like that to news camera on an American street, what did he say in private to Starmer? You will see that exchange to camera again on TV news this week.
Starmer has to be contrite. Otherwise he is f*****. This is not the fault of Truss or Johnson. He made a call. It went wrong. Why was he prepared to take the risk? He might have to throw Donald Trump under the bus again.
I cannot begin to consider what makes Mandelson tick.
You know what makes Boris Johnson tick? You know what makes Donald Trump tick. Same thing. They believe in magic money trees put on earth for their own convenience.
You can't equate Johnson with Mandelson. Johnson merely attended a vodka and call girls party hosted by the KGB whilst Foreign Secretary without his minders. I can't begin to explain what Mandelson was doing, but the optics look far worse.
If Starmer amendment is defeated which means his mps have voted with Kemi then how can he continue as PM
High stakes for him tomorrow
I think you’ll find the government can handle the situation quite easily on Wednesday.
The opposition, and amendment, calls for release of the paper trail. I expect Government to publish that a few minutes before PMQs starts. They can blah blah and filibuster their way through the day quite easily from there.
Got to remember too, opposition parties will be showing anger at what’s happened - whilst so many in Labour have barely concealed delight at what’s happened - whilst PM and business mangers are the most angry and frustrated of all.
And there is serious work for parliament, the lack of instrument to strip people of peerages, yes, but as many are pointing out on PB this night, such instrument cannot be used after a torch and pitchfork trial, but after due process finds someone done something wrong. Like impeaching in America is a trial.
Mandleson resigned from Lords, but if instrument was needed to remove him, can you talk us through the strong evidence against him brought to the trial?
If Starmer amendment is defeated which means his mps have voted with Kemi then how can he continue as PM
High stakes for him tomorrow
I think you are looking at this through the prism of Currygate. The Mandelson treachery is way bigger.
There is not an insubstantial risk that this could do for Starmer on judgement grounds. Whichever way you look at it Starmer demonstrated poor judgement. If he can't defend his judgement call satisfactorily Starmer is done for. Then ARINACASKSIPM.
There is a non-zero chance that Angela Rayner comes out of this mess as PM - without spending that million quid she has apparently acquired.
(I hope she doesn't catch amnesia about where it came from...)
PMQs, and Commons debate and votes much easier for Starmer, due to releasing the paper trail at 11:45 before commanded to do so. How do I know this for certain? It’s logically what we would all do isn’t it - pre empt PMQs and Commons debates and kill rebellions, by releasing the asked for paper trail just minutes before.
But the killer line that’s trouble for Starmer, Mandleson vox popped on US street last year saying that there’s worse than that to come out. If Mandleson is prepared to be open like that to news camera on an American street, what did he say in private to Starmer? You will see that exchange to camera again on TV news this week.
Starmer has to be contrite. Otherwise he is f*****. This is not the fault of Truss or Johnson. He made a call. It went wrong. Why was he prepared to take the risk? He might have to throw Donald Trump under the bus again.
I cannot begin to consider what makes Mandelson tick.
You know what makes Boris Johnson tick? You know what makes Donald Trump tick. Same thing. They believe in magic money trees put on earth for their own convenience.
You can't equate Johnson with Mandelson. Johnson merely attended a vodka and call girls party hosted by the KGB whilst Foreign Secretary without his minders. I can't begin to explain what Mandelson was doing, but the optics look far worse.
“Johnson merely attended a vodka and call girls party hosted by the KGB whilst Foreign Secretary without his minders.”
You are pointing at one thing MexPete, though what you pointed at is likely again how he could make money for himself. You are forgetting donor money, wall paper, freebie holidays when should have been working, striking a deal to stay on as PM to use chequers for his wedding.
Mandy, Boris, Trump - identical in believing in magic money trees put on earth for their own convenience - and absolutely no bad can come from just helping themselves to the money. Odd view at what Public Service is.
“I understand he maintains that he’s not acted criminally and did not act for personal gain – and argues that while confronting in the late 2000s the biggest financial crisis in decades, sought Epstein’s expertise in the national interest.”
If Starmer amendment is defeated which means his mps have voted with Kemi then how can he continue as PM
High stakes for him tomorrow
I think you’ll find the government can handle the situation quite easily on Wednesday.
The opposition, and amendment, calls for release of the paper trail. I expect Government to publish that a few minutes before PMQs starts. They can blah blah and filibuster their way through the day quite easily from there.
Got to remember too, opposition parties will be showing anger at what’s happened - whilst so many in Labour have barely concealed delight at what’s happened - whilst PM and business mangers are the most angry and frustrated of all.
And there is serious work for parliament, the lack of instrument to strip people of peerages, yes, but as many are pointing out on PB this night, such instrument cannot be used after a torch and pitchfork trial, but after due process finds someone done something wrong. Like impeaching in America is a trial.
Mandleson resigned from Lords, but if instrument was needed to remove him, can you talk us through the strong evidence against him brought to the trial?
As for actual legislation the Tories and Labour can cook up together after this, should Reform be wary how it could be used to get at them?
Such as evidence of impropriety is benefiting from suspicious money that don’t fit the new rules Tories and Labour will draft up.
REF. The Churchwarden Donation: In January 2026, it was revealed that John Richard Simpson, a 59-year-old Anglican churchwarden and lay leader from Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, was behind £200,000 in donations to Reform UK. Simpson, who works for a wealthy Kazakhstan-born couple, made seven payments to the party last summer through his firm, Interior Architecture Landscape Limited.
The Record £9m Donation: The largest donation in Reform UK's history—and the largest ever from a living person to a UK political party—came from Christopher Harborne, a Thailand-based British cryptocurrency investor and aviation entrepreneur. He donated £9 million in August 2025, bringing his total contributions to Farage's parties to over £19 million.
What’s in “the Dossier” Labour handed the police to instigate the investigation?
Is it something knocked up in a few hours, or something Downing Street has been drafting for a long time? Nothing from it appears to have leaked to the press.
"Peter Mandelson faces criminal investigation over Epstein emails
Former cabinet minister, who is ‘retiring’ from Lords, will be questioned by police about allegations he leaked sensitive information to paedophile financier" (£)
As funny as this all is… what we have seen is supposed emails from Mandy. I’m a bit old fashioned and we don’t know if they were from him (probable) but could also be manipulated by Epstein or others to use.
I am very uncomfortable with the current torch and pitchfork situation removing his peerage etc (I really don’t like him) because I believe in innocent until proven guilty and he has as much protection under the law as anyone and so shouldn’t be penalised until proven to have been a legally bad ‘un.
I would bet one of my kidneys he was bad but please let’s allow justice and procedure to win not mob justice.
I think there is more than enough evidence that Mandleson has always been about money and greed, not probity, for us to light torches and hold pitchforks this evening.
If it wasn’t Epstein - who Mandy continued close to even after Epstein was convicted of child abuse - it was dodgy Russian Mafia - did he not famously bump into Osborne on a Oligock Yart? Two cabinet resignations for proper serious housing fraud - that make Angies misdemeanour a mere talking to from ref not even yellow card.
People like Mandleson - completely greedy and sell their soul for money - are such obvious security risk when allowed into sensitive positions. Indeed, Sending a financier details of government financial decisions minutes after they were made in Cabinet, has a whiff of treason against UK about it. I’m surprised Brown has taken it so mildly and Blair so silent about it.
You could argue if true context comes across from reading emails. And ask if Trump regime selectively releasing, they have certainly shredded anything very damaging to Trump, so Trump is safe now from Epstein scandal.
Old Fashioned? Torches and pitchforks old fashioned, you got it from old fashioned Hammered movies.
Silly me, I just prefer evidence that stands up in a court of law rather than feels. I’m certain he has done wrong but just want due process rather than mob rule.
Forget the emails and whether they are real or not.
He said he never saw any girls, and, lo, there is a picture of him stood next to a girl. I don't think anyone is claiming it to be AI.
That's enough to be getting on with.
Sorry but since when did we want to live in a world where one photo which could be interpreted in a million ways was evidence. We are better than that. The odds are that it was part of a world which was bad but please can we keep to a society where we don’t burn witches - a photo of a dodgy bugger in his pants and a young woman in a robe is not evidence of anything. It is just that without provable context. Let’s stick to evidence, fact, truth. I am clearly right wing, I hated the world under Labour with Blair and Mandy so could just rejoice but we have to keep our society where evidence is correct not just what we want. Would that photo mean anything in court? No.
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
“dutifully and perfectly since resignation”.
Has she paid her tax due?
If Angela Rayner is the answer, the wrong question is definitely being asked.
She’s no Mandelson, who can keep coming back again until yet another scandal finally kills her off almost three decades later.
Angela Rayner is not the answer to any question relating to the government of this country. Maybe “how can we fuck things up more”.
The question is, who do we put our money on? Not who would be best, or who would we like, but who will win?
If it helps I'm a Labour member and if/when the vote comes I'll be judging 2 things:
Who would be the better PM? Who would more likely beat Reform?
Assuming a Streeting v Rayner choice, I'm clear on the answer to the 1st. Streeting. But on the 2nd I'm not sure at all. And if I end up concluding it's Rayner I can see myself (reluctantly) prioritising that and voting for her.
Nothing (for me) is more important than preventing Farage and his gang getting their filthy mitts on this country.
Far be it from me to suggest solutions to Labours quandary but Rayner is so far from your desire to beat Reform as you can get. Honestly - Labour supporters and members need to read the fucking room. Your only hope is a Cooper ticket with Streeting as Chancellor maybe. This fascination and love for Rayner is perplexing. She’s clearly thick as shit. And a proven tax dodger.
Northern accent = thick as shit
Thank goodness none of my university exams were orals, or it would have been an instant fail.
Nope. You’re making that stretch, not me. JRM Is as thick as shit. As is Jenrick. Hague wasn’t. Neither is Burnham. She’s objectively as thick as shit. You just like her because she’s northern. And in your mind that means she’s beyond criticism.
JRM is brighter than Burnham, even if with less common touch
Really? I had no idea Burnham was such a dumbarse.
Yes I know Ydoethur you think JRM is an idiot. Yet with his fortune of over £100 million, including founding a successful hedge fund, his Oxbridge degree, his former job as an MP and Cabinet Minister and his weekly show on GB news and his lovely family home in Somerset shared with his wife and 6 children Jacob of course will not give a shift what you think!
He may be intelligent. He can give me a nice lecture on post-Greek political philosophy. Of that there is no doubt. But is he “clever “ considering he was a politician relying on voters to vote for him, and he only came across only as an entitled arse. I’d say he was very un-clever in the vocation he had chosen. Hence he is thick in succeeding in the role he chose.
But JRM is a complete bullshitter with a Gussy Finknottle accent, who does not know how to report or reflect on a simple fact.
I gave a trivial example last week where the Church of England has a motion in Synod to discourage use of petroleum based flower foam (as it leaves particulate pollution in churchyards for centuries) and encourage use of sustainable alternatives. That is following the sensible steps taken by the RHS in 2020.
JRM translated it into an attempt to 'ban certain kinds of flowers'; that is a lie, or a delusion. And JRM builds a sandcastle of fake, emotive rhetoric on top. It's either a deliberate deception, or an exercise in stupidity. Either way, JRM is a shit shoveller, with a method little different from a Farage or a Yaxley-Lennon other than the Woosterish presentation.
I suspect he is trying to build his credentials as a Roman Catholic apparent traditionalist, whilst stoking up his silly rhetoric around Net Zero, and having a go at "the woke".
The depressing item is that his Tory and Tory-adjacent followers are gormless enough to swallow his gruel, unquestioned.
Were I to do a more serious critique of JRM on this type of subject, it would be starting with his apparent belief that he can keep his relentlessly individualistic faith locked up in his private life and his bedroom.
"Peter Mandelson faces criminal investigation over Epstein emails
Former cabinet minister, who is ‘retiring’ from Lords, will be questioned by police about allegations he leaked sensitive information to paedophile financier" (£)
As funny as this all is… what we have seen is supposed emails from Mandy. I’m a bit old fashioned and we don’t know if they were from him (probable) but could also be manipulated by Epstein or others to use.
I am very uncomfortable with the current torch and pitchfork situation removing his peerage etc (I really don’t like him) because I believe in innocent until proven guilty and he has as much protection under the law as anyone and so shouldn’t be penalised until proven to have been a legally bad ‘un.
I would bet one of my kidneys he was bad but please let’s allow justice and procedure to win not mob justice.
I think there is more than enough evidence that Mandleson has always been about money and greed, not probity, for us to light torches and hold pitchforks this evening.
If it wasn’t Epstein - who Mandy continued close to even after Epstein was convicted of child abuse - it was dodgy Russian Mafia - did he not famously bump into Osborne on a Oligock Yart? Two cabinet resignations for proper serious housing fraud - that make Angies misdemeanour a mere talking to from ref not even yellow card.
People like Mandleson - completely greedy and sell their soul for money - are such obvious security risk when allowed into sensitive positions. Indeed, Sending a financier details of government financial decisions minutes after they were made in Cabinet, has a whiff of treason against UK about it. I’m surprised Brown has taken it so mildly and Blair so silent about it.
You could argue if true context comes across from reading emails. And ask if Trump regime selectively releasing, they have certainly shredded anything very damaging to Trump, so Trump is safe now from Epstein scandal.
Old Fashioned? Torches and pitchforks old fashioned, you got it from old fashioned Hammered movies.
Silly me, I just prefer evidence that stands up in a court of law rather than feels. I’m certain he has done wrong but just want due process rather than mob rule.
Forget the emails and whether they are real or not.
He said he never saw any girls, and, lo, there is a picture of him stood next to a girl. I don't think anyone is claiming it to be AI.
That's enough to be getting on with.
Sorry but since when did we want to live in a world where one photo which could be interpreted in a million ways was evidence. We are better than that. The odds are that it was part of a world which was bad but please can we keep to a society where we don’t burn witches - a photo of a dodgy bugger in his pants and a young woman in a robe is not evidence of anything. It is just that without provable context. Let’s stick to evidence, fact, truth. I am clearly right wing, I hated the world under Labour with Blair and Mandy so could just rejoice but we have to keep our society where evidence is correct not just what we want. Would that photo mean anything in court? No.
I think that may be the Epstein shtick. He did not need evidence to exercise influence, just enough to smear and kill his target's influence.
As for "who photographs?", I thought there was CCTV everywhere in his flat? I have seen reports of terabytes of storage back in the time, which was a *lot* for then.
Remember, this scandal initially broke just days before a high-profile State visit to the United Kingdom by President Trump. It involved the US ambassador to Washington. But did neither Keir Starmer nor anyone else think to ask the Americans ‘what else have you got on this’?
It simply beggars belief. Starmer is a former Director of Public Prosecutions. What’s more, in that position he had a major role directly liaising with the US intelligence services in the fight against terror. Yet we are meant to believe his lack of curiosity meant he didn’t even bother asking what information they held about his most senior diplomat befriending a notorious paedophile and placing himself directly at the heart of what many now suspect was a Russian honeytrap operation?
Do you remember when he was bigging himself up pre-election about how as DPP he was totally involved with global intelligence and so had made the hard decisions and knew the stresses and difficulties? Now obvs Rishi should have shot back that he actually had the experience of ordering troops to actionthings but I remember Starmer rampers suggesting that Starmer had a wide view and grip of intelligence. Obvs not over his own appointments.
Now we know that Mandelson was giving/selling official secrets when he was Business Sec.
Does anyone doubt that he would be willing to do the same when he was Ambassador ?
If so what was he giving/selling and to whom ?
There is no evidence he was selling official secrets.
'My Lord, I protest at this word 'sell.' I did not sell them. I gave them away freely to a man I considered a friend.'
I'm not sure that makes things better, actually...
It's a classic lack of concern for basic rules that you see a lot of people once they attain positions of authority, or at leat adjacent to authority. Sometimes rules prevent you from doing some basic things out of abundance of caution, or make things harder than you feel they should be, but just ignore all of that and think holding a position means you should be able to do what you want, even if it is share all the deep secrets of government with your upstanding buddy, and it can go very wrong.
You even see this kind of attitude with local councillors sometimes, frustrated how difficult things can be.
You should try being on a parish council, trying to explain why things like why what the council is legally able and not able to do matters….
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
What was known about Mandelson by the general public on the day of his appointment was enough to disqualify him from any important government position
He had been fired twice for impropriety
Then we knew he was friends with a paedo billionaire crook
Then the Prime Minister appointed him
The default assumption must be that 'due diligence' over the Mandelson appointment with security services and secret information gatherers would have to be exceptionally thorough given his past and his known connections.
The other default assumption must be that between them MI5, MI5, Special Branch, GCHQ and the overseas intelligence agencies with whom we had a good relationship will have known quite a lot of what we now know, and, safe to say, quite a lot more that we don't. Human nature is what it is.
Which is the bit or bits in the process which have gone wrong and why is a central question. There seem to me no possibilities that are not quite disconcerting.
Are you sure the snoopy services are that good? They would have to have tapped into these emails at the time they were being sent?
For example the smoking gun here, PantyPete sharing info he shouldn’t have with a financier friend. You are claiming to us the snoopy services have been sitting on this? You saying they put it into the dossier they showed Starmer?
I will repeat.
Email bounces through servers, completely unencrypted. A river of postcards. Due to the way the servers work, they leave a copy on each server, until erased.
For many, many years, intelligence services have hovered these up. It takes little effort and produces a huge pile of stuff to sift through.
Everyone does this.
Did the security services look at Mandy’s emails? We don’t know.
But for far less sensitive jobs, they are trawled.
Are there not email services you can use that - provided your recipient also uses such a service - the email will be encrypted from end-to-end?
Not plain email.
It is why some people used to leave emails in draft on gmail and share logins rather than pressing send.
There is PGP, but since it involves dealing with encryption keys at both ends prior to sending a message, it never caught on. [Also, it cannot hide the sender and recipient]
Nowadays a secure message client is better if you've got anything private to say. Though _probably_ not Whatsapp.
From what I understand from discussions of how the Ukrainian resistance is communicating, even with a secure messaging service there's a lot that can be done by looking at metadata - sizes of messages sent, and that sort of thing.
Yes. You can make pretty good guesses at content and the relationships between people based on their message patterns. Meta does this.
Bletchley Park did this is in the second world war, even without breaking codes.
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
“dutifully and perfectly since resignation”.
Has she paid her tax due?
If Angela Rayner is the answer, the wrong question is definitely being asked.
She’s no Mandelson, who can keep coming back again until yet another scandal finally kills her off almost three decades later.
Angela Rayner is not the answer to any question relating to the government of this country. Maybe “how can we fuck things up more”.
The question is, who do we put our money on? Not who would be best, or who would we like, but who will win?
If it helps I'm a Labour member and if/when the vote comes I'll be judging 2 things:
Who would be the better PM? Who would more likely beat Reform?
Assuming a Streeting v Rayner choice, I'm clear on the answer to the 1st. Streeting. But on the 2nd I'm not sure at all. And if I end up concluding it's Rayner I can see myself (reluctantly) prioritising that and voting for her.
Nothing (for me) is more important than preventing Farage and his gang getting their filthy mitts on this country.
Far be it from me to suggest solutions to Labours quandary but Rayner is so far from your desire to beat Reform as you can get. Honestly - Labour supporters and members need to read the fucking room. Your only hope is a Cooper ticket with Streeting as Chancellor maybe. This fascination and love for Rayner is perplexing. She’s clearly thick as shit. And a proven tax dodger.
Northern accent = thick as shit
Thank goodness none of my university exams were orals, or it would have been an instant fail.
Nope. You’re making that stretch, not me. JRM Is as thick as shit. As is Jenrick. Hague wasn’t. Neither is Burnham. She’s objectively as thick as shit. You just like her because she’s northern. And in your mind that means she’s beyond criticism.
JRM is brighter than Burnham, even if with less common touch
Really? I had no idea Burnham was such a dumbarse.
Yes I know Ydoethur you think JRM is an idiot but with his fortune of over £100 million, including founding a successful hedge fund, his Oxbridge degree and his weekly show on GB news and his lovely family home in Somerset shared with his wife and 6 children Jacob of course will not give a shift what you think!
Making a lot of money and being successful does not prevent someone being an idiot of course. Peter Mandelson did both (on his terms) for a long time.
For any regular PB reader, that’s not a proposition you really need to invest much time in arguing
If Starmer amendment is defeated which means his mps have voted with Kemi then how can he continue as PM
High stakes for him tomorrow
I think you are looking at this through the prism of Currygate. The Mandelson treachery is way bigger.
There is not an insubstantial risk that this could do for Starmer on judgement grounds. Whichever way you look at it Starmer demonstrated poor judgement. If he can't defend his judgement call satisfactorily Starmer is done for. Then ARINACASKSIPM.
There is a non-zero chance that Angela Rayner comes out of this mess as PM - without spending that million quid she has apparently acquired.
(I hope she doesn't catch amnesia about where it came from...)
PM Rayner at year end was my entry in the PB Predictions contest.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
What was known about Mandelson by the general public on the day of his appointment was enough to disqualify him from any important government position
He had been fired twice for impropriety
Then we knew he was friends with a paedo billionaire crook
Then the Prime Minister appointed him
The default assumption must be that 'due diligence' over the Mandelson appointment with security services and secret information gatherers would have to be exceptionally thorough given his past and his known connections.
The other default assumption must be that between them MI5, MI5, Special Branch, GCHQ and the overseas intelligence agencies with whom we had a good relationship will have known quite a lot of what we now know, and, safe to say, quite a lot more that we don't. Human nature is what it is.
Which is the bit or bits in the process which have gone wrong and why is a central question. There seem to me no possibilities that are not quite disconcerting.
Are you sure the snoopy services are that good? They would have to have tapped into these emails at the time they were being sent?
For example the smoking gun here, PantyPete sharing info he shouldn’t have with a financier friend. You are claiming to us the snoopy services have been sitting on this? You saying they put it into the dossier they showed Starmer?
I will repeat.
Email bounces through servers, completely unencrypted. A river of postcards. Due to the way the servers work, they leave a copy on each server, until erased.
For many, many years, intelligence services have hovered these up. It takes little effort and produces a huge pile of stuff to sift through.
Everyone does this.
Did the security services look at Mandy’s emails? We don’t know.
But for far less sensitive jobs, they are trawled.
And I repeat. 🙂 You are explicitly stating Snoopy Services knew all this before the releases, if not more besides.
I’m not disputing the IT involved, you are right. But it still requires Snoopy Services to snoop in the right places.
What is against your position - if Snoopy Services hold something serious, they would flag it up wouldn’t they?
You’re making me feel old; I can still remember the couple of guys with the electric kettle who used to visit the sorting office
Now we know that Mandelson was giving/selling official secrets when he was Business Sec.
Does anyone doubt that he would be willing to do the same when he was Ambassador ?
If so what was he giving/selling and to whom ?
There is no evidence he was selling official secrets.
I assume he was getting something in return for all the info he was giving Epstein.
Whether that was the odd $75k, access to other friends of Epstein or just useful info.
I have worked for over 25 years with people who work in sport, banking, business, politics, TV, and other high, profile industries, and I am not surprised there are people who like to show off by giving inside info to show they are important/in the know.
Mandelson feels like that kind of person, he is known to be a shameless name dropper.
I remember Nick Palmer saying he wasn't particularly likeable because he was always looking over your shoulder to see if there was someone more important to talk to.
When it is proposed that a man be deprived of his liberty, plainly the highest standard of proof is required, before convicting him.
When one is forming a judgement about a man’s character, a much lower standard of proof is required.
We know enough about Mandelson to know that he is a man of poor character.
Should the Met and CPS decide to charge Mandelson and should he get sent down for it , Labour can claim a huge moral victory.
With Boris getting away with everything short of murder, in terms of corruption, Mone still on the loose and billions spaffed away, the sight of a prominent ex MP actually sitting in Jail for his crimes would send a VERY powerful message that this Government is different and prepared to give up the guilty and not hide them like the Tories and Reform.
Every action has a reaction and Starmers prompt action in the past 48 hours once the full extent of previously unlnown dealings in 2010 became apparent might not in the long run save Starmer but can give his successor a very strong bargaining chip.
When it is proposed that a man be deprived of his liberty, plainly the highest standard of proof is required, before convicting him.
When one is forming a judgement about a man’s character, a much lower standard of proof is required.
We know enough about Mandelson to know that he is a man of poor character.
Should the Met and CPS decide to charge Mandelson and should he get sent down for it , Labour can claim a huge moral victory.
With Boris getting away with everything short of murder, in terms of corruption, Mone still on the loose and billions spaffed away, the sight of a prominent ex MP actually sitting in Jail for his crimes would send a VERY powerful message that this Government is different and prepared to give up the guilty and not hide them like the Tories and Reform.
Every action has a reaction and Starmers prompt action in the past 48 hours once the full extent of previously unlnown dealings in 2010 became apparent might not in the long run save Starmer but can give his successor a very strong bargaining chip.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Presumably we have Morris Oxfords and Rover P4s incoming.
Don't forget the half-timbered Morris Minors.
These are senior councillors.
Morris Minors are for plebs.
You'll never get anywhere in Reform with disrespectful talk like that. The half-timbered Morris Minor - the pinnacle of meshing English historical architecture and engineering - was the epitome of British manufacturing to which they aspire to return.
One senior government official said there was scarce detail about how the government planned to reform the [Lords] disciplinary process.
“We promised in the manifesto to reform the Lords to make it easier to expel peers, but like everything else we came into government with no plan and no ideas, standing on a manifesto we didn’t have the first clue how to implement,” they said. “The result is we have done – yet again – a U-turn because it was clear that we had to do more than we did yesterday without having any idea of what that actually means.”
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
"Peter Mandelson faces criminal investigation over Epstein emails
Former cabinet minister, who is ‘retiring’ from Lords, will be questioned by police about allegations he leaked sensitive information to paedophile financier" (£)
As funny as this all is… what we have seen is supposed emails from Mandy. I’m a bit old fashioned and we don’t know if they were from him (probable) but could also be manipulated by Epstein or others to use.
I am very uncomfortable with the current torch and pitchfork situation removing his peerage etc (I really don’t like him) because I believe in innocent until proven guilty and he has as much protection under the law as anyone and so shouldn’t be penalised until proven to have been a legally bad ‘un.
I would bet one of my kidneys he was bad but please let’s allow justice and procedure to win not mob justice.
I think there is more than enough evidence that Mandleson has always been about money and greed, not probity, for us to light torches and hold pitchforks this evening.
If it wasn’t Epstein - who Mandy continued close to even after Epstein was convicted of child abuse - it was dodgy Russian Mafia .
Presumably we have Morris Oxfords and Rover P4s incoming.
Don't forget the half-timbered Morris Minors.
These are senior councillors.
Morris Minors are for plebs.
You'll never get anywhere in Reform with disrespectful talk like that. The half-timbered Morris Minor - the pinnacle of meshing English historical architecture and engineering - was the epitome of British manufacturing to which they aspire to return.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Starmer has to do exactly the opposite. This isn't the Tories fault and the MP for Witham operating an illegal shadow foreign policy has nothing to do with this. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Starmer has to explain why he thought it a risk worth taking to employ someone with a record of dismissals for corruption and known links to Epstein. He did it because he thought Mandelson was the best option to handle the corruption of Trump. It probably was worth the risk on the information known at the time. It was a risk laden judgement call, and it blew up in his face.
“I understand he maintains that he’s not acted criminally and did not act for personal gain – and argues that while confronting in the late 2000s the biggest financial crisis in decades, sought Epstein’s expertise in the national interest.”
Lol
I look forward to his using that defence in court.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Starmer has to do exactly the opposite. This isn't the Tories fault and the MP for Witham operating an illegal shadow foreign policy has nothing to do with this. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Starmer has to explain why he thought it a risk worth taking to employ someone with a record of dismissals for corruption and known links to Epstein. He did it because he thought Mandelson was the best option to handle the corruption of Trump. It probably was worth the risk on the information known at the time. It was a risk laden judgement call, and it blew up in his face.
That is a line he won't have the guts to use, though it's likely true, and he would get some credit from the public for the admission.
There are 68 days until the elections. We are leading Fidesz by a huge margin. But because of that, the remaining just over two months will be incredibly difficult and important. Fidesz will attack, incite, and threaten by any means necessary. https://x.com/magyarpeterMP/status/2018652945126932849
Our noble journalist class are now at the ‘I always thought Mandelson was a smelly poo pants and said as much’ stage of revelation. Never waste a crisis if there’s even a tiny chance for self congratulation.
I couldn’t care less, it’s the Reform obsessives, like yourself, who seem to fret about it. I just observe the obsession which only seems to be with Reform at local govt when others are just as bad. If the voters of Kent are unhappy they can register it at the ballot box.
I am pleased with Durham Council and my council tax will only be going up by 3.1%
Sadly the inept Police and the Fire brigade are going to rinse us for cash.
Our noble journalist class are now at the ‘I always thought Mandelson was a smelly poo pants and said as much’ stage of revelation. Never waste a crisis if there’s even a tiny chance for self congratulation.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Starmer has to do exactly the opposite. This isn't the Tories fault and the MP for Witham operating an illegal shadow foreign policy has nothing to do with this. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Starmer has to explain why he thought it a risk worth taking to employ someone with a record of dismissals for corruption and known links to Epstein. He did it because he thought Mandelson was the best option to handle the corruption of Trump. It probably was worth the risk on the information known at the time. It was a risk laden judgement call, and it blew up in his face.
That is a line he won't have the guts to use, though it's likely true, and he would get some credit from the public for the admission.
Though probably not from the US administration...
They already want him replaced by Nigel Farage and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. No point standing on ceremony. Anyway I think he can afford to be more circumspect and less direct.
In reality perhaps we are at the moment where it is best for everyone if Starmer cuts himself loose. I doubt that will happen, but perhaps it should
Our noble journalist class are now at the ‘I always thought Mandelson was a smelly poo pants and said as much’ stage of revelation. Never waste a crisis if there’s even a tiny chance for self congratulation.
They all fawn (even if they know there's something fishy going on) when the cat's still in the bag, and then fall over themselves to say they knew and were saying so all along when it isn't.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Starmer has to do exactly the opposite. This isn't the Tories fault and the MP for Witham operating an illegal shadow foreign policy has nothing to do with this. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Starmer has to explain why he thought it a risk worth taking to employ someone with a record of dismissals for corruption and known links to Epstein. He did it because he thought Mandelson was the best option to handle the corruption of Trump. It probably was worth the risk on the information known at the time. It was a risk laden judgement call, and it blew up in his face.
That is a line he won't have the guts to use, though it's likely true, and he would get some credit from the public for the admission.
Though probably not from the US administration...
They already want him replaced by Nigel Farage and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. No point standing on ceremony. Anyway I think he can afford to be more circumspect and less direct.
In reality perhaps we are at the moment where it is best for everyone if Starmer cuts himself loose. I doubt that will happen, but perhaps it should
I agree. I just don't think Starmer is sufficiently brave to do so.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Starmer has to do exactly the opposite. This isn't the Tories fault and the MP for Witham operating an illegal shadow foreign policy has nothing to do with this. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Starmer has to explain why he thought it a risk worth taking to employ someone with a record of dismissals for corruption and known links to Epstein. He did it because he thought Mandelson was the best option to handle the corruption of Trump. It probably was worth the risk on the information known at the time. It was a risk laden judgement call, and it blew up in his face.
He can’t do that.
It’s because he believed that Mandelson and Trump moved in the same circles and Mandy had kompromat on the President.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
Comments
Surely there should be three of them.
After Trump took office, they were ordered to send all of their case files to Washington.
The case was then closed..
https://x.com/clearing_fog/status/1990885457396183406
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Darkness_(band)
It’s all getting a bit “I never really knew Sir Jimmy”
Trump on Epstein Files: Now that nothing came about me—I think it’s time for the country to get on to something that people care about.
Collins: What would you say to the people who say they haven’t gotten justice?
Trump: You are the worst reporter. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you smile.
Collins: I’m asking about survivors
Trump: You know why you’re not smiling? Because you’re not telling the truth. Your dishonest organization should be ashamed of you.
https://x.com/Acyn/status/2018807088051523709
If I was Starmer I would come to Parliament tomorrow in sack cloth and ashes. Starmer can claim it was a judgement call and Starmer thought Mandelson being in Trump's orbit seemed like a risk worth taking despite Mandelson's track record. Initially it seemed like it had worked until it blew up...
There is no point duking it out. His judgement has been banged to rights. Let's hope Sorry doesn't seem to be the hardest word.
As an aside. Donald Trump is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the Bible.
A Viz commemorative plate surely beckons, but more importantly was he ever given the keys to Stoke Mandyville hospital, like another famous celebrity figure who was hospital "night porter" for several years?
If it wasn’t Epstein - who Mandy continued close to even after Epstein was convicted of child abuse - it was dodgy Russian Mafia - did he not famously bump into Osborne on a Oligock Yart? Two cabinet resignations for proper serious housing fraud - that make Angies misdemeanour a mere talking to from ref not even yellow card.
People like Mandleson - completely greedy and sell their soul for money - are such obvious security risk when allowed into sensitive positions. Indeed, Sending a financier details of government financial decisions minutes after they were made in Cabinet, has a whiff of treason against UK about it. I’m surprised Brown has taken it so mildly and Blair so silent about it.
You could argue if true context comes across from reading emails. And ask if Trump regime selectively releasing, they have certainly shredded anything very damaging to Trump, so Trump is safe now from Epstein scandal.
Old Fashioned? Torches and pitchforks old fashioned, you got it from old fashioned Hammered movies.
I am the righteous hand of God
And I am the devil that you forgot
And I told you, one day, you will see
That I'll be back, I guarantee
And that hell's coming, hell's coming
Hell, hell's coming with me
And it is well with my soul
You line your pockets full of money
That you steal from the poor
And on your way down the hill
You hear me ringing that bell
And I say
Hell's coming (hell's coming) with me
A judge led Public Inquiry is inevitable for what happened for every day Mandelson was in Cabinet. This is Profumo (a Junior Minister) on steroids.
He said he never saw any girls, and, lo, there is a picture of him stood next to a girl. I don't think anyone is claiming it to be AI.
That's enough to be getting on with.
Mandelbrot had previous resigned twice as a government minister, due to his behaviour. Plus other scandals.
Fare Dodgers.
Sympathy for Beatrice and Eugenie.
PMQs, and Commons debate and votes much easier for Starmer, due to releasing the paper trail at 11:45 before commanded to do so. How do I know this for certain? It’s logically what we would all do isn’t it - pre empt PMQs and Commons debates and kill rebellions, by releasing the asked for paper trail just minutes before.
But the killer line that’s trouble for Starmer, Mandleson vox popped on US street last year saying that there’s worse than that to come out. If Mandleson is prepared to be open like that to news camera on an American street, what did he say in private to Starmer? You will see that exchange to camera again on TV news this week.
There is not an insubstantial risk that this could do for Starmer on judgement grounds. Whichever way you look at it Starmer demonstrated poor judgement. If he can't defend his judgement call satisfactorily Starmer is done for. Then ARINACASKSIPM.
I cannot begin to consider what makes Mandelson tick.
Let the casting battle commence.
https://x.com/brianspanner1/status/2018796186950664390?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
You know the administrative error that “forgot” Angie was actually there? It’s because she travelled for the party, did none of the associated meetings, canvassing and work that day. It’s amazing they have got away with it so far.
The opposition, and amendment, calls for release of the paper trail. I expect Government to publish that a few minutes before PMQs starts. They can blah blah and filibuster their way through the day quite easily from there.
Got to remember too, opposition parties will be showing anger at what’s happened - whilst so many in Labour have barely concealed delight at what’s happened - whilst PM and business mangers are the most angry and frustrated of all.
And there is serious work for parliament, the lack of instrument to strip people of peerages, yes, but as many are pointing out on PB this night, such instrument cannot be used after a torch and pitchfork trial, but after due process finds someone done something wrong. Like impeaching in America is a trial.
Mandleson resigned from Lords, but if instrument was needed to remove him, can you talk us through the strong evidence against him brought to the trial?
(I hope she doesn't catch amnesia about where it came from...)
You are pointing at one thing MexPete, though what you pointed at is likely again how he could make money for himself. You are forgetting donor money, wall paper, freebie holidays when should have been working, striking a deal to stay on as PM to use chequers for his wedding.
Mandy, Boris, Trump - identical in believing in magic money trees put on earth for their own convenience - and absolutely no bad can come from just helping themselves to the money. Odd view at what Public Service is.
In The Deal (2003) Mandleson was played by Paul Rhys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnBURhTIrdY
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/clynp40ekrdt?page=4
“I understand he maintains that he’s not acted criminally and did not act for personal gain – and argues that while confronting in the late 2000s the biggest financial crisis in decades, sought Epstein’s expertise in the national interest.”
Such as evidence of impropriety is benefiting from suspicious money that don’t fit the new rules Tories and Labour will draft up.
REF.
The Churchwarden Donation: In January 2026, it was revealed that John Richard Simpson, a 59-year-old Anglican churchwarden and lay leader from Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, was behind £200,000 in donations to Reform UK. Simpson, who works for a wealthy Kazakhstan-born couple, made seven payments to the party last summer through his firm, Interior Architecture Landscape Limited.
The Record £9m Donation: The largest donation in Reform UK's history—and the largest ever from a living person to a UK political party—came from Christopher Harborne, a Thailand-based British cryptocurrency investor and aviation entrepreneur. He donated £9 million in August 2025, bringing his total contributions to Farage's parties to over £19 million.
https://bylinetimes.com/2025/12/16/nigel-farages-9m-donor-profits-from-putin-propaganda-platform-while-holding-mod-stake/
Con: 22% (+3)
Lab: 17% (-2)
Grn: 14% (+2)
LD: 14% (+2)
Poll: Freshwater, 30 Jan-1 Feb (+/- vs 11 Jan)"
Is it something knocked up in a few hours, or something Downing Street has been drafting for a long time? Nothing from it appears to have leaked to the press.
I gave a trivial example last week where the Church of England has a motion in Synod to discourage use of petroleum based flower foam (as it leaves particulate pollution in churchyards for centuries) and encourage use of sustainable alternatives. That is following the sensible steps taken by the RHS in 2020.
JRM translated it into an attempt to 'ban certain kinds of flowers'; that is a lie, or a delusion. And JRM builds a sandcastle of fake, emotive rhetoric on top. It's either a deliberate deception, or an exercise in stupidity. Either way, JRM is a shit shoveller, with a method little different from a Farage or a Yaxley-Lennon other than the Woosterish presentation.
I suspect he is trying to build his credentials as a Roman Catholic apparent traditionalist, whilst stoking up his silly rhetoric around Net Zero, and having a go at "the woke".
The depressing item is that his Tory and Tory-adjacent followers are gormless enough to swallow his gruel, unquestioned.
Link here:https://youtu.be/ZSefWzhL6HI?t=587
Were I to do a more serious critique of JRM on this type of subject, it would be starting with his apparent belief that he can keep his relentlessly individualistic faith locked up in his private life and his bedroom.
https://xcom/zarahsultana/status/2018741842729177106#m
As for "who photographs?", I thought there was CCTV everywhere in his flat? I have seen reports of terabytes of storage back in the time, which was a *lot* for then.
When it is proposed that a man be deprived of his liberty, plainly the highest standard of proof is required, before convicting him.
When one is forming a judgement about a man’s character, a much lower standard of proof is required.
We know enough about Mandelson to know that he is a man of poor character.
£600k on free parking spaces for senior Councillors and officers. £4 charges per day to park for staff.
Staff at the Reform-run Kent County Council will have to pay £4 per day to park, just weeks after Reform spent £600,000 on a private car park for its own senior councillors, according to plans.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/reform-council-600k-free-parking-senior-councillors-5HjdRfw_2/
Betfair:-
Green 2 (or 50%)
Reform 2.74 (or 36.5%)
Labour 7 (or 14.3%)
Morris Minors are for plebs.
With Boris getting away with everything short of murder, in terms of corruption, Mone still on the loose and billions spaffed away, the sight of a prominent ex MP actually sitting in Jail for his crimes would send a VERY powerful message that this Government is different and prepared to give up the guilty and not hide them like the Tories and Reform.
Every action has a reaction and Starmers prompt action in the past 48 hours once the full extent of previously unlnown dealings in 2010 became apparent might not in the long run save Starmer but can give his successor a very strong bargaining chip.
Good morning, everyone.
Whilst the inglorious Mandelson passed inside information to an individual, sitting on the Tory Front Benches will be toe highly dishonourable Member for Witham who commited a far greater Treason.
Passing State Secrets in an unathorised trip to Tel Aviv to a mass murderer. Found guilty of breaking the Ministerial Code, should have been criminally charged yet still sat in position.
Guarded by Boris and Truss and left there because neither the gutless Sunak or Badenoch have the backbone to remove her!
One senior government official said there was scarce detail about how the government planned to reform the [Lords] disciplinary process.
“We promised in the manifesto to reform the Lords to make it easier to expel peers, but like everything else we came into government with no plan and no ideas, standing on a manifesto we didn’t have the first clue how to implement,” they said. “The result is we have done – yet again – a U-turn because it was clear that we had to do more than we did yesterday without having any idea of what that actually means.”
(And yes, there are three of them)
I suspect things will become more clear as we get feedback from canvasing.
We know Reform is losing if Farage stops visiting.
Indeed both Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn were considerable breaks with Mandelsonian style politics, particularly the latter.
From 2010 and 2015 on Mandelson and Ed Miliband:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11127658
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/10/miliband-made-terrible-mistake-in-ditching-new-labour-says-mandelson?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
I might top up on Ed Miliband next PM.
Starmer has to explain why he thought it a risk worth taking to employ someone with a record of dismissals for corruption and known links to Epstein. He did it because he thought Mandelson was the best option to handle the corruption of Trump. It probably was worth the risk on the information known at the time. It was a risk laden judgement call, and it blew up in his face.
I look forward to his using that defence in court.
Though probably not from the US administration...
There are 68 days until the elections. We are leading Fidesz by a huge margin. But because of that, the remaining just over two months will be incredibly difficult and important. Fidesz will attack, incite, and threaten by any means necessary.
https://x.com/magyarpeterMP/status/2018652945126932849
https://x.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/2018807915860406371?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
I am pleased with Durham Council and my council tax will only be going up by 3.1%
Sadly the inept Police and the Fire brigade are going to rinse us for cash.
Michael Wolff said #Epstein & #Trump procured girls for Andrew. Called themselves The Pussy Committee.
2000 Trump hosts Andrew at Mar-a-Lago
2003 Trump sends card for Epstein’s 50th
August 2019 Epstein dies
December 2019 Trump denies knowing Andrew
https://x.com/madameshawshank/status/2018912576072220841
In reality perhaps we are at the moment where it is best for everyone if Starmer cuts himself loose. I doubt that will happen, but perhaps it should
They all fawn (even if they know there's something fishy going on) when the cat's still in the bag, and then fall over themselves to say they knew and were saying so all along when it isn't.
Weak.
I just don't think Starmer is sufficiently brave to do so.
It’s because he believed that Mandelson and Trump moved in the same circles and Mandy had kompromat on the President.