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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,442
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    On the decline of high streets, I sense a degree of hypocrisy in the zeitgeist, as in:

    It's a bloody disgrace. Our high street is collapsing before our very eyes. Shops are closing all the time. Something should be done. Mind you, personally I've bought everything I need from Amazon and Asda home delivery for the last 10 years, so couldn't be arsed to go to the high street anyway.

    Trying to return it to what it once was is a fool's game. I don't think everywhere which used to have a viable high street will get one back no matter the policy pronouncements, and our expectations need to change about what they can offer and how many places even have one worthy of the name.
    What we need in our High Streets is a lot more people and the obvious way to achieve that is to have them live there by converting a lot of the unused retail space into housing. Once enough people live in our town centres again local shops, restaurants and cafes will thrive making them more attractive place to go.

    What is needed is changes to the General Development Order so that there is an almost irrebuttable presumption in favour of change of use and a removal of conditions about parking and the like so that the alterations are commercially viable. Its really not complicated.
    Its not just unused retail space which needs converting but much of the used retail space as well.

    Quality of shops is as important as quantity of shops and the former locations of M&S, HoF and Debenhams becoming what look like third world jumble sales is not an improvement.

    Various vape shops, convenience stores, cafes which never have any customers and sundry other shops which don't seem to have a purpose would also be better used for residential purposes.
    It's the never ending supply of charity shops, who are exempted something like 80% of their business rates and who increasingly exist as adjuncts of the state who funnel them money for the "services" that they provide that irritate me. Vaping shops, with their colourful goods designed to attract children, are indeed another blight.
    Nevertheless the two thriving, chichi, bustling high streets in Edinburgh, Stockbridge and Morningside, are hoaching with charity shops, doesn’t seem to affect their desirability as places to live, shop, drink coffee and consume overpriced pastries.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,984

    It looks like Mandelson was in constant communication with Epstein in the aftermath of the 2010 election and was looking to see how best to position himself for a job with JP Morgan.

    Epstein had quite shrewd political advice:

    https://x.com/annemcelvoy/status/2018075806619033973

    why not let tories govern with minority, no coalition cant get anything done.. - finish summer. then in sept decide labor, europe china etc.

    Mandelson also tipped him off about the euro bailout that was happening at the time. This is getting close to insider dealing territory.

    Blair had been an advisor with JP Morgan. Why did he need Epstein?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,914
    julie k. brown
    @jkbjournalist
    The public might not be aware of how difficult it is for smaller news outlets (and even some of the larger ones) to download 3 million pages. I've also been told that the DOJ is removing pages, then putting them back up, and that interferes with the downloads. So people, be patient, we are all doing our best! (Also my eyes are killing me).

    https://x.com/jkbjournalist/status/2018036611100139871
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,886
    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    DoctorG said:


    Councils are caught in a trap where councillors think they can rewind the clock 20 plus years and go back to thriving High streets pre Internet. Sadly this is unlikely to happen.

    In Greenock, which I unfortunately have to visit occasionally, the main shopping street ended up in a terrible state. About half of the shops closed, with much of the rest being bookies (5 of them), shady 'slots' places, charity shops and dodgy Turkish barbers.

    The Council pulled together funding from various bodies to renovate the area. Lots of nice paving, new trees, benches, etc.

    Result? Nada. No new shops have opened, the existing ones still struggle and pedestrian traffic is no higher than before. The big retail park a few miles away in Port Glasgow has hoovered up all the business and some slabs and trees-inna-box isn't going to change that.

    At least they do seem to have now accepted the days of a bustling high street are gone. The rest of the town centre is being redeveloped with UK government funds, which involves demolishing half of the run down shopping mall to make way for new housing.
    What you've said for Greenock applies to so many towns right across the west of Scotland - theres a real divide in afffluence between areas of growing population around Edinburgh and areas like Inverclyde and D & G. And no, I don't think the lack of cycle lanes or trees surrounded by slabs is the big problem, nice as they may look.

    You can hardly blame people for shopping online when its cheaper. You can even get goods carted to your door for less price than it takes you to go downtown and buy from a shop.

    Long term, not sure what the solution is, other than more housing in high streets. It's just going to take some Councils a wee while yet before they figure it all out. The UK government levelling up cash needs to be targeted much better than some examples I've seen
    The problems with High Streets are not really things that a general tarting up of the public spaces can solve.
    Quite so, but it is something that is simple to do - just get a funding pot together for it - and produces tangible if uneven results - updated street scene - so of course Whitehall and Westminster gravitate towards it.
    I'm not even sure it does that to be candid. Most frequent complaints about High Streets relate to empty shops and dilapidated and poorly kept buildings. Adding expensive pavements, benches or even public sculpture does nothing for those issues. It's quite depressing to me when councils spend their money that way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892
    edited February 1

    Greens now clear favourites on BF for by-election.

    If 22% is an accurate Labour VI percentage nationally, why are the Greens favourites for a safer than average Labour seat?

    I do wonder if there's a credibility issue with current polling.
    The Tories were on 25% when they defended the safer than average Tiverton and Honiton by-election, behind Labour on 41% and the LDs on 10%. At the previous GE Labour got 5% more than the LDs, with the Tories having a majority of 40%. In the end the LDs won it by 14%, rising 38%.

    Ok, there were some personal issues at play in that one too, plus the baggage of 12 years of government, but national polling numbers don't seem to matter all that much in by-elections, if momentum and morale go in certain ways, other than as a general indication of being down in the dumps or surging.
  • Mandelson resigns from the labour party
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,899

    We've been spared George sodding Galloway mugging all over Granada Reports for the next few weeks, maybe there is a God. Also I'm absolutely sure that this failure to put up a candidate is in no way related to their current fundraiser yielding about a hundred quid, not the £15k they were seeking.

    https://x.com/WorkersPartyGB/status/2018048150808760748?s=20

    Good news for the Greens.
    Game, set and match for the Greens.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    edited February 1
    .
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    On the decline of high streets, I sense a degree of hypocrisy in the zeitgeist, as in:

    It's a bloody disgrace. Our high street is collapsing before our very eyes. Shops are closing all the time. Something should be done. Mind you, personally I've bought everything I need from Amazon and Asda home delivery for the last 10 years, so couldn't be arsed to go to the high street anyway.

    Trying to return it to what it once was is a fool's game. I don't think everywhere which used to have a viable high street will get one back no matter the policy pronouncements, and our expectations need to change about what they can offer and how many places even have one worthy of the name.
    What we need in our High Streets is a lot more people and the obvious way to achieve that is to have them live there by converting a lot of the unused retail space into housing. Once enough people live in our town centres again local shops, restaurants and cafes will thrive making them more attractive place to go.

    What is needed is changes to the General Development Order so that there is an almost irrebuttable presumption in favour of change of use and a removal of conditions about parking and the like so that the alterations are commercially viable. Its really not complicated.
    Couldn't agree more.
    Town centres need to become places to live again - as they were until the end of WWII.

    Done well, they could be very attractive places to live.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,552

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    How many times can you use the headline "Mandelson resigns?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    How many times can you use the headline "Mandelson resigns?
    Hey, it's a renewable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892
    edited February 1

    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    DoctorG said:


    Councils are caught in a trap where councillors think they can rewind the clock 20 plus years and go back to thriving High streets pre Internet. Sadly this is unlikely to happen.

    In Greenock, which I unfortunately have to visit occasionally, the main shopping street ended up in a terrible state. About half of the shops closed, with much of the rest being bookies (5 of them), shady 'slots' places, charity shops and dodgy Turkish barbers.

    The Council pulled together funding from various bodies to renovate the area. Lots of nice paving, new trees, benches, etc.

    Result? Nada. No new shops have opened, the existing ones still struggle and pedestrian traffic is no higher than before. The big retail park a few miles away in Port Glasgow has hoovered up all the business and some slabs and trees-inna-box isn't going to change that.

    At least they do seem to have now accepted the days of a bustling high street are gone. The rest of the town centre is being redeveloped with UK government funds, which involves demolishing half of the run down shopping mall to make way for new housing.
    What you've said for Greenock applies to so many towns right across the west of Scotland - theres a real divide in afffluence between areas of growing population around Edinburgh and areas like Inverclyde and D & G. And no, I don't think the lack of cycle lanes or trees surrounded by slabs is the big problem, nice as they may look.

    You can hardly blame people for shopping online when its cheaper. You can even get goods carted to your door for less price than it takes you to go downtown and buy from a shop.

    Long term, not sure what the solution is, other than more housing in high streets. It's just going to take some Councils a wee while yet before they figure it all out. The UK government levelling up cash needs to be targeted much better than some examples I've seen
    The problems with High Streets are not really things that a general tarting up of the public spaces can solve.
    Quite so, but it is something that is simple to do - just get a funding pot together for it - and produces tangible if uneven results - updated street scene - so of course Whitehall and Westminster gravitate towards it.
    I'm not even sure it does that to be candid. Most frequent complaints about High Streets relate to empty shops and dilapidated and poorly kept buildings. Adding expensive pavements, benches or even public sculpture does nothing for those issues. It's quite depressing to me when councils spend their money that way.
    The key was my use of the phrase 'uneven results'.

    It's tangible even if the end result is poor - obviously government hopes it is not poor, but they know that it will be clear money has been spent in a specific area in a relatively short space of time and is within their control rather than relying on reforms to produce results from others, which is 'better' than many other ideas. (some money is also meant to go towards trying to help end buildings being empty).

    To defend the councils, what they're allowed to spend such pots on is pretty limited and usually tightly directed by the controlling department, the alternative being they don't get anything at all.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,129
    You know it's bad when Mandelson's worried about the amount of embarrassment he's caused.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,281

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    On the decline of high streets, I sense a degree of hypocrisy in the zeitgeist, as in:

    It's a bloody disgrace. Our high street is collapsing before our very eyes. Shops are closing all the time. Something should be done. Mind you, personally I've bought everything I need from Amazon and Asda home delivery for the last 10 years, so couldn't be arsed to go to the high street anyway.

    Trying to return it to what it once was is a fool's game. I don't think everywhere which used to have a viable high street will get one back no matter the policy pronouncements, and our expectations need to change about what they can offer and how many places even have one worthy of the name.
    What we need in our High Streets is a lot more people and the obvious way to achieve that is to have them live there by converting a lot of the unused retail space into housing. Once enough people live in our town centres again local shops, restaurants and cafes will thrive making them more attractive place to go.

    What is needed is changes to the General Development Order so that there is an almost irrebuttable presumption in favour of change of use and a removal of conditions about parking and the like so that the alterations are commercially viable. Its really not complicated.
    Its not just unused retail space which needs converting but much of the used retail space as well.

    Quality of shops is as important as quantity of shops and the former locations of M&S, HoF and Debenhams becoming what look like third world jumble sales is not an improvement.

    Various vape shops, convenience stores, cafes which never have any customers and sundry other shops which don't seem to have a purpose would also be better used for residential purposes.
    It's the never ending supply of charity shops, who are exempted something like 80% of their business rates and who increasingly exist as adjuncts of the state who funnel them money for the "services" that they provide that irritate me. Vaping shops, with their colourful goods designed to attract children, are indeed another blight.
    Nevertheless the two thriving, chichi, bustling high streets in Edinburgh, Stockbridge and Morningside, are hoaching with charity shops, doesn’t seem to affect their desirability as places to live, shop, drink coffee and consume overpriced pastries.
    Charity shops are part of the attraction - you can pick up some really nice stuff given it's young professionals making the donations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    Having clearly spared no effort to redact the identities of Epstein's co-conspirators..

    The Department of Justice has to be violating the law deliberately at this point because I am looking at an Epstein file that is literally a list of survivors and only one name is redacted. There are 32 survivors listed.
    https://x.com/AaronParnas/status/2017961715736985794
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,562

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    How many times has he had to resign during his career? :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892
    edited February 1

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    Next step, resign from the House of Lords (if he has not already).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    How many times can you use the headline "Mandelson resigns?
    Hey, it's a renewable.
    Come to think of it, this scene applies. Just have a stamp...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4a7BrhlMTg
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,984

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    How many times can you use the headline "Mandelson resigns?
    Hey, it's a renewable.
    The House of Lords next.
  • Mandy gone again, has he? After the zillionth scandal, you'd think people would pause for thought before shipping him back in again.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,226
    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    edited February 1
    I’m old enough to remember when Republicans* threw tantrums and called for endless hearings when Joe Biden received a $40,000 loan repayment check from his brother.

    Now Trump got $4 billion richer by taking bribes and extorting companies and countries.

    The silence is deafening.

    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/2017972220904030654

    *and the odd PBer.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    On the decline of high streets, I sense a degree of hypocrisy in the zeitgeist, as in:

    It's a bloody disgrace. Our high street is collapsing before our very eyes. Shops are closing all the time. Something should be done. Mind you, personally I've bought everything I need from Amazon and Asda home delivery for the last 10 years, so couldn't be arsed to go to the high street anyway.

    Trying to return it to what it once was is a fool's game. I don't think everywhere which used to have a viable high street will get one back no matter the policy pronouncements, and our expectations need to change about what they can offer and how many places even have one worthy of the name.
    What we need in our High Streets is a lot more people and the obvious way to achieve that is to have them live there by converting a lot of the unused retail space into housing. Once enough people live in our town centres again local shops, restaurants and cafes will thrive making them more attractive place to go.

    What is needed is changes to the General Development Order so that there is an almost irrebuttable presumption in favour of change of use and a removal of conditions about parking and the like so that the alterations are commercially viable. Its really not complicated.
    Its not just unused retail space which needs converting but much of the used retail space as well.

    Quality of shops is as important as quantity of shops and the former locations of M&S, HoF and Debenhams becoming what look like third world jumble sales is not an improvement.

    Various vape shops, convenience stores, cafes which never have any customers and sundry other shops which don't seem to have a purpose would also be better used for residential purposes.
    It's the never ending supply of charity shops, who are exempted something like 80% of their business rates and who increasingly exist as adjuncts of the state who funnel them money for the "services" that they provide that irritate me. Vaping shops, with their colourful goods designed to attract children, are indeed another blight.
    Nevertheless the two thriving, chichi, bustling high streets in Edinburgh, Stockbridge and Morningside, are hoaching with charity shops, doesn’t seem to affect their desirability as places to live, shop, drink coffee and consume overpriced pastries.
    Charity shops are part of the attraction - you can pick up some really nice stuff given it's young professionals making the donations.
    Turnbull & Asser suits, sometimes
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394

    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."

    He literally wrote that.

    Well, we know where Andrew's spin doctors got a job after the pizza interview, now.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,478

    Greens now clear favourites on BF for by-election.

    If 22% is an accurate Labour VI percentage nationally, why are the Greens favourites for a safer than average Labour seat?

    I do wonder if there's a credibility issue with current polling.
    I think there's a problem with us collectively. We have zero information about VI in the seat other than FON, and FON isn't credible in this case. I don't understand why anybody is betting as we have no credible info on which to bet. Vibes or Feelz betting is not for me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394
    edited February 1
    viewcode said:

    Greens now clear favourites on BF for by-election.

    If 22% is an accurate Labour VI percentage nationally, why are the Greens favourites for a safer than average Labour seat?

    I do wonder if there's a credibility issue with current polling.
    I think there's a problem with us collectively. We have zero information about VI in the seat other than FON, and FON isn't credible in this case. I don't understand why anybody is betting as we have no credible info on which to bet. Vibes or Feelz betting is not for me.
    In God We Trust. All Others Need To Bring Data.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892

    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."

    I still don't understand what his explanation is for 'continuing his association' with Epstein post conviction.

    There's lots of other question, maybe there are allegations here which are not true, and he can seek to (theoretically sincerely) claim for much of it that he never saw or heard anything untoward, but the continuing association part is hard to think what the defence continues to be. Like, in his own mind what is his justification for that?

    He's dodgy as fuck is my assessment.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,923
    edited February 1

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    On the decline of high streets, I sense a degree of hypocrisy in the zeitgeist, as in:

    It's a bloody disgrace. Our high street is collapsing before our very eyes. Shops are closing all the time. Something should be done. Mind you, personally I've bought everything I need from Amazon and Asda home delivery for the last 10 years, so couldn't be arsed to go to the high street anyway.

    Trying to return it to what it once was is a fool's game. I don't think everywhere which used to have a viable high street will get one back no matter the policy pronouncements, and our expectations need to change about what they can offer and how many places even have one worthy of the name.
    What we need in our High Streets is a lot more people and the obvious way to achieve that is to have them live there by converting a lot of the unused retail space into housing. Once enough people live in our town centres again local shops, restaurants and cafes will thrive making them more attractive place to go.

    What is needed is changes to the General Development Order so that there is an almost irrebuttable presumption in favour of change of use and a removal of conditions about parking and the like so that the alterations are commercially viable. Its really not complicated.
    Its not just unused retail space which needs converting but much of the used retail space as well.

    Quality of shops is as important as quantity of shops and the former locations of M&S, HoF and Debenhams becoming what look like third world jumble sales is not an improvement.

    Various vape shops, convenience stores, cafes which never have any customers and sundry other shops which don't seem to have a purpose would also be better used for residential purposes.
    It's the never ending supply of charity shops, who are exempted something like 80% of their business rates and who increasingly exist as adjuncts of the state who funnel them money for the "services" that they provide that irritate me. Vaping shops, with their colourful goods designed to attract children, are indeed another blight.
    Nevertheless the two thriving, chichi, bustling high streets in Edinburgh, Stockbridge and Morningside, are hoaching with charity shops, doesn’t seem to affect their desirability as places to live, shop, drink coffee and consume overpriced pastries.
    Charity shops are part of the attraction - you can pick up some really nice stuff given it's young professionals making the donations.
    Turnbull & Asser suits, sometimes
    Charity shops get multiple advantages - 80-100% off rates, free stick, free staff aka volunteers, and no tax on profits if given to the parent charity that owns the business.

    Plus they now operate in the "new goods", and specialist, spaces.

    The issue with conversions is that they are often shit, so we end up with shit former shopping streets, which is what happens when quality of development is not regulated, and Councils are gutted of their staff.

    "Remove all limitations and let whatever happens rip" is the most fuckwitted policy on the world.
  • Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,857
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    On the decline of high streets, I sense a degree of hypocrisy in the zeitgeist, as in:

    It's a bloody disgrace. Our high street is collapsing before our very eyes. Shops are closing all the time. Something should be done. Mind you, personally I've bought everything I need from Amazon and Asda home delivery for the last 10 years, so couldn't be arsed to go to the high street anyway.

    Trying to return it to what it once was is a fool's game. I don't think everywhere which used to have a viable high street will get one back no matter the policy pronouncements, and our expectations need to change about what they can offer and how many places even have one worthy of the name.
    What we need in our High Streets is a lot more people and the obvious way to achieve that is to have them live there by converting a lot of the unused retail space into housing. Once enough people live in our town centres again local shops, restaurants and cafes will thrive making them more attractive place to go.

    What is needed is changes to the General Development Order so that there is an almost irrebuttable presumption in favour of change of use and a removal of conditions about parking and the like so that the alterations are commercially viable. Its really not complicated.
    Its not just unused retail space which needs converting but much of the used retail space as well.

    Quality of shops is as important as quantity of shops and the former locations of M&S, HoF and Debenhams becoming what look like third world jumble sales is not an improvement.

    Various vape shops, convenience stores, cafes which never have any customers and sundry other shops which don't seem to have a purpose would also be better used for residential purposes.
    Have to say Canary Wharf was incredibly busy this afternoon and what a success story it has been. When I moved to East London 20 years ago, no one got ON the tube in the morning at Canary Wharf - everyone got off the tube to go to work and the place was a ghost town at the weekends.

    Today, it's entirely different - a lot of people in or near Canary Wharf and the whole place is busy and bustling all week not just when the office workers are in.

    There's a concept called "Place" which means you live, work and relax in the same general area. We need to convert our High Streets to "places" where people can live, work and relax - that means allowing start-ups to take space in former retail premises as well as having more residential space and recreational facilities including bars, cafes and restaurants.

    This is the antithesis of the 20th century where you lived in one place, commuted to another for work and drove to a third for recreation. It's anti-suburban if you like but it needs a different mindset - it's more akin to how we used to live (as well as being more environmentally sustainable).
    Certainly its an attractive model for those who want and whose lives enable such a thing.

    Although any attempts to impose it, either formally or informally, comes with costs to both the economy and to individual freedom.
    I'm NOT suggesting it's a model to be imposed unlike the 20th century model which was imposed by the clearance of slums and the building of vast new suburban estates and the coming of supermarkets and out of town retail which forced car ownership on families and did much to kill off the pre-existing High Street.

    That's the thing with coercion or forced choice - when the Government does it, it's bad, when the market does it, it's good?
    The economy and society evolved from one pattern to another.

    That suited some people at the time and more since.

    Now there were people who didn't benefit but its also necessary not to fall into nostalgia.

    Personally speaking I've no wish to return to some 1950s ideal of going to a butchers, a bakers, a greengrocers and a grocer. All shut by 5pm with early closing on Wednesday afternoon.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892
    edited February 1
    Nigelb said:

    I’m old enough to remember when Republicans* threw tantrums and called for endless hearings when Joe Biden received a $40,000 loan repayment check from his brother.

    Now Trump got $4 billion richer by taking bribes and extorting companies and countries.

    The silence is deafening.

    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/2017972220904030654

    *and the odd PBer.

    That fraud case referenced where he estimated his net worth, even if you disagreed with the finding that there was fraud, demonstrated that the Trump enterprises were run very chaotically with a lot of creativity, and with a lot of value attributed to the Trump brand over any concrete assets. He's definitely found more immediately lucrative and straightforward opportunities since.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892

    Mandy gone again, has he? After the zillionth scandal, you'd think people would pause for thought before shipping him back in again.

    Know the right sorts of people and anything is forgiven.

    Well, almost anything - causing public embarrassment yet again surely puts him out to pasture now, given he's no spring chicken.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,129

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    Which political class?

    The last thing on Earth Republicans want is public testimony.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892
    viewcode said:

    Greens now clear favourites on BF for by-election.

    If 22% is an accurate Labour VI percentage nationally, why are the Greens favourites for a safer than average Labour seat?

    I do wonder if there's a credibility issue with current polling.
    I think there's a problem with us collectively. We have zero information about VI in the seat other than FON, and FON isn't credible in this case. I don't understand why anybody is betting as we have no credible info on which to bet. Vibes or Feelz betting is not for me.
    But it is how most people bet.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,468
    The reason the Greens have gone odds on

    The Workers Party has tonight taken the difficult decision not to stand in the Gorton by-election. This decision is taken in the best interests of the working-class. Labour and Reform must lose.

    Press enquiries: info@workerspartybritain.org

    https://x.com/workerspartygb/status/2018048150808760748?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,129
    The US team at the winter Olympics had planned to call their party venue the ICE house...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892

    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."

    He literally wrote that.

    Well, we know where Andrew's spin doctors got a job after the pizza interview, now.
    I cannot wait for the investigation report if he discovers that, despite his recollection and professed belief, it turns out to be true.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394
    kle4 said:

    Mandy gone again, has he? After the zillionth scandal, you'd think people would pause for thought before shipping him back in again.

    Know the right sorts of people and anything is forgiven.

    Well, almost anything - causing public embarrassment yet again surely puts him out to pasture now, given he's no spring chicken.
    #NU10K

    Should we take bets on when he does the comeback interview for a glossy magazine? -

    "Lord Mandelbrot, at home with a photoshoot and how he is the victim of baseless accusations. And it hurts so much. And he has only been able to scrape a meagre existence together since it all fell apart - mid six figures. And he's been abandoned by all so many friends. But he is determined to return to Public Life to continue his lifelong goal of Improving The World."
  • Scott_xP said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    Which political class?

    The last thing on Earth Republicans want is public testimony.
    UK
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394
    kle4 said:

    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."

    He literally wrote that.

    Well, we know where Andrew's spin doctors got a job after the pizza interview, now.
    I cannot wait for the investigation report if he discovers that, despite his recollection and professed belief, it turns out to be true.
    "The money, of which I have no recollection, turns out to have been resting in my account."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    DoctorG said:


    Councils are caught in a trap where councillors think they can rewind the clock 20 plus years and go back to thriving High streets pre Internet. Sadly this is unlikely to happen.

    In Greenock, which I unfortunately have to visit occasionally, the main shopping street ended up in a terrible state. About half of the shops closed, with much of the rest being bookies (5 of them), shady 'slots' places, charity shops and dodgy Turkish barbers.

    The Council pulled together funding from various bodies to renovate the area. Lots of nice paving, new trees, benches, etc.

    Result? Nada. No new shops have opened, the existing ones still struggle and pedestrian traffic is no higher than before. The big retail park a few miles away in Port Glasgow has hoovered up all the business and some slabs and trees-inna-box isn't going to change that.

    At least they do seem to have now accepted the days of a bustling high street are gone. The rest of the town centre is being redeveloped with UK government funds, which involves demolishing half of the run down shopping mall to make way for new housing.
    What you've said for Greenock applies to so many towns right across the west of Scotland - theres a real divide in afffluence between areas of growing population around Edinburgh and areas like Inverclyde and D & G. And no, I don't think the lack of cycle lanes or trees surrounded by slabs is the big problem, nice as they may look.

    You can hardly blame people for shopping online when its cheaper. You can even get goods carted to your door for less price than it takes you to go downtown and buy from a shop.

    Long term, not sure what the solution is, other than more housing in high streets. It's just going to take some Councils a wee while yet before they figure it all out. The UK government levelling up cash needs to be targeted much better than some examples I've seen
    The problems with High Streets are not really things that a general tarting up of the public spaces can solve.
    Quite so, but it is something that is simple to do - just get a funding pot together for it - and produces tangible if uneven results - updated street scene - so of course Whitehall and Westminster gravitate towards it.
    I'm not even sure it does that to be candid. Most frequent complaints about High Streets relate to empty shops and dilapidated and poorly kept buildings. Adding expensive pavements, benches or even public sculpture does nothing for those issues. It's quite depressing to me when councils spend their money that way.
    The key was my use of the phrase 'uneven results'.

    It's tangible even if the end result is poor - obviously government hopes it is not poor, but they know that it will be clear money has been spent in a specific area in a relatively short space of time and is within their control rather than relying on reforms to produce results from others, which is 'better' than many other ideas. (some money is also meant to go towards trying to help end buildings being empty).

    To defend the councils, what they're allowed to spend such pots on is pretty limited and usually tightly directed by the controlling department, the alternative being they don't get anything at all.
    Another side effect of half a century of centralisation.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 448
    Don't think Barry Manilow has got this right. If Mandy really "came and you gave without taking" that doesn't explain the $75,000 payment
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 448

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    How many times can you use the headline "Mandelson resigns?
    "But I sent you away oh Mandy" incoming
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    kle4 said:

    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."

    I still don't understand what his explanation is for 'continuing his association' with Epstein post conviction.

    There's lots of other question, maybe there are allegations here which are not true, and he can seek to (theoretically sincerely) claim for much of it that he never saw or heard anything untoward, but the continuing association part is hard to think what the defence continues to be. Like, in his own mind what is his justification for that?

    He's dodgy as fuck is my assessment.
    There is zero credible reason for anyone to have associated with him post conviction.

    The first page of Epstein's plea bargain makes it absolutely clear that he engaged in the rape and trafficking of children.
    Any of his associates who claim ignorance can only do so because they didn't want to know.

    The sentence was an eternal disgrace to the US justice system.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 448

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    Best idea, send them both across to the US to host a new chat show, where the guests interview them. In a sort of Desert Island Discs set up, they could each be asked which 8 celebrities they'd want to take on a remote island with them for a weekend
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,020
    The NYT studiously ignores the Epstein story, so the least worst source I have for updating myself, weirdly, is PB.

    Mandelson has rightly resigned from the Labour Party, and should consider forfeiting his position in the House of Lords. He should also be under investigation by tax authorities and whoever investigates parliamentary corruption.

    I had long assumed that Trump was at least somewhat complicit in Epstein’s crimes as they essentially ran in the same circles in the 90s. I’ve also assumed that Melania is essentially an East European hooker, one of many that Epstein seems to have specialised in procuring.

    The new files however contain what to me look like a historic credible accusation of rape against Trump, since it comes with at least corroborative mention of the Alexander brothers, who are currently waiting trial themselves on numerous rape charges.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    The Epstein files are triggering resignations abroad, Slovakia’s national security adviser just stepped down.

    In the U.S.? Silence. Cover-ups. Delays. Excuses.

    Same crimes. Very different accountability...

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2018069801713778965
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,020
    edited February 1
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    DoctorG said:


    Councils are caught in a trap where councillors think they can rewind the clock 20 plus years and go back to thriving High streets pre Internet. Sadly this is unlikely to happen.

    In Greenock, which I unfortunately have to visit occasionally, the main shopping street ended up in a terrible state. About half of the shops closed, with much of the rest being bookies (5 of them), shady 'slots' places, charity shops and dodgy Turkish barbers.

    The Council pulled together funding from various bodies to renovate the area. Lots of nice paving, new trees, benches, etc.

    Result? Nada. No new shops have opened, the existing ones still struggle and pedestrian traffic is no higher than before. The big retail park a few miles away in Port Glasgow has hoovered up all the business and some slabs and trees-inna-box isn't going to change that.

    At least they do seem to have now accepted the days of a bustling high street are gone. The rest of the town centre is being redeveloped with UK government funds, which involves demolishing half of the run down shopping mall to make way for new housing.
    What you've said for Greenock applies to so many towns right across the west of Scotland - theres a real divide in afffluence between areas of growing population around Edinburgh and areas like Inverclyde and D & G. And no, I don't think the lack of cycle lanes or trees surrounded by slabs is the big problem, nice as they may look.

    You can hardly blame people for shopping online when its cheaper. You can even get goods carted to your door for less price than it takes you to go downtown and buy from a shop.

    Long term, not sure what the solution is, other than more housing in high streets. It's just going to take some Councils a wee while yet before they figure it all out. The UK government levelling up cash needs to be targeted much better than some examples I've seen
    The problems with High Streets are not really things that a general tarting up of the public spaces can solve.
    Quite so, but it is something that is simple to do - just get a funding pot together for it - and produces tangible if uneven results - updated street scene - so of course Whitehall and Westminster gravitate towards it.
    I'm not even sure it does that to be candid. Most frequent complaints about High Streets relate to empty shops and dilapidated and poorly kept buildings. Adding expensive pavements, benches or even public sculpture does nothing for those issues. It's quite depressing to me when councils spend their money that way.
    The key was my use of the phrase 'uneven results'.

    It's tangible even if the end result is poor - obviously government hopes it is not poor, but they know that it will be clear money has been spent in a specific area in a relatively short space of time and is within their control rather than relying on reforms to produce results from others, which is 'better' than many other ideas. (some money is also meant to go towards trying to help end buildings being empty).

    To defend the councils, what they're allowed to spend such pots on is pretty limited and usually tightly directed by the controlling department, the alternative being they don't get anything at all.
    Another side effect of half a century of centralisation.
    I’d say thr centralisation goes back to the immediate post-war period. So even longer.

    It’s an economic calamity, with consequences through every part of British life.

    Current initiatives, such as the proposal to merge police forces, and the abolition of district councils, show that Whitehall simply can’t help itself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,570

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ianfraser.bsky.social‬

    As business secretary Peter Mandelson conspired with leading US bank to end tax on bankers' bonuses. He told Epstein that JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon should “threaten” chancellor Alistair Darling over the tax. A year later, Mandy was seeking work with JPMorgan.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ianfraser.bsky.social/post/3mdsvot7h6k2w

    After the 2010 election Mandelson wanted a job with JP Morgan & wrote this to Epstein: "“My aim is to acquire enough knowledge and networks in time to participate in real deals. I do not want to live by salary alone."

    Unlike the overwhelming majority of us who do have to. Labour: the party of the workers.

    Why was Epstein bothered by the bankers' bonus tax? He was not affected. Why was he even involved? UK banks were well able to lobby the government without needing the assistance of a man convicted of procuring a child for prostitution in 2008.

    So who really was helping who? Was this Mandelson trying to show Epstein that he could get a result so that Epstein would recommend him to his mate Jes Staley at JP Morgan?

    The whole affair stinks.
    You wonder what Peter Mandelson thought about the ethics and propriety training all ministers are expected attend to and adhere to?

    I feel quite a fool that my entire career I've studiously avoided conflicts of interest that would have benefitted me.
    That's why you can only afford 100 pairs of shoes.

    Mandelson was selling a project to Epstein. Epstein would tell JP Moron how to leverage the government. Epstein would get banking help - lines of cheap credit? - in return. And Epstein would give Mandelson a piece. Plus, Epstein would pass on where he got the ideas - so Mandelson would be in JP Moron's good books (ha!) as well.

    A happy circle of happy people, all helping each other.

    I'm sure that Mandelson is proud never to have even visited Ethics.
    The behaviour of the 0.1%, whether left or right, royalist or republican, hasn’t changed much, since Ancient Rome.
    Except now the internet and media gives them greater scrutiny and we use the ballot box and a more just legal system rather than revolutions to control them
    It did, until the 0.001% bought up the media and the internet as their personal playthings.

    (Yes, the mass media has always been in the hands of the very very well-off. What seems different now is the number of "very"s in that phrase, and the sense that they know that they are burning money to propagate a worldview. The old press barons knew that were there to make profits as well.)
    If it really had none of the Epstein information would now be being disseminated in the media and online
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,235
    It reflects badly on the United States that the only two people seemingly receiving any inconvenience whatsoever from their association with Epstein are Mandy and Andy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,719

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,020
    Nigelb said:

    I’m old enough to remember when Republicans* threw tantrums and called for endless hearings when Joe Biden received a $40,000 loan repayment check from his brother.

    Now Trump got $4 billion richer by taking bribes and extorting companies and countries.

    The silence is deafening.

    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/2017972220904030654

    *and the odd PBer.

    The scale of corruption is unprecedented.
    It’s industrial in scale.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    Nothing to see here.
    Says Trump's personal lawyer.

    Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche signals there will be no new charges brought in the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein
    https://x.com/CNN/status/2018053141762068624
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,570
    After tonight's final episode of the Night Manager, which was certainly not a good ending, there will be a series 3
    https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/2162741/night-manager-return-season-3
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,321

    The NYT studiously ignores the Epstein story, so the least worst source I have for updating myself, weirdly, is PB.

    Mandelson has rightly resigned from the Labour Party, and should consider forfeiting his position in the House of Lords. He should also be under investigation by tax authorities and whoever investigates parliamentary corruption.

    I had long assumed that Trump was at least somewhat complicit in Epstein’s crimes as they essentially ran in the same circles in the 90s. I’ve also assumed that Melania is essentially an East European hooker, one of many that Epstein seems to have specialised in procuring.

    The new files however contain what to me look like a historic credible accusation of rape against Trump, since it comes with at least corroborative mention of the Alexander brothers, who are currently waiting trial themselves on numerous rape charges.

    The NYT’s burial of the story is so brazen. Don’t know what they’re so worried about. I mean, OK one of their most senior columnists is photographed at an Epstein party. OK one of their board members has already had to resign for serious Epstein related reasons. OK the actual NYT owner was listed by Epstein as a visitor to pedo-island…

    Other than THAT what are they worried about?
  • Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,235
    edited February 1
    I guess those MAGA loons were spot on about one thing.
    Elect Trump and he'll bring a massive child abuse conspiracy into the open.
    They were just a little naive in thinking anyone would do fuck all about it, mind.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,719

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,964

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    Is he the promised big Labour signing to Reform?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,923
    edited February 1

    Nigelb said:

    I’m old enough to remember when Republicans* threw tantrums and called for endless hearings when Joe Biden received a $40,000 loan repayment check from his brother.

    Now Trump got $4 billion richer by taking bribes and extorting companies and countries.

    The silence is deafening.

    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/2017972220904030654

    *and the odd PBer.

    The scale of corruption is unprecedented.
    It’s industrial in scale.
    I agree on part of that, but I think that corruption was was probably always industrial in scale, for example in the gilded age and the behaviour of robber barons.

    I think that Trump may be unique in treating the position of the Presidency itself as a criminal enterprise, and seeking to overthrow the US Constitution and legal and democratic systems.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,218
    edited February 1

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,394
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    I’m old enough to remember when Republicans* threw tantrums and called for endless hearings when Joe Biden received a $40,000 loan repayment check from his brother.

    Now Trump got $4 billion richer by taking bribes and extorting companies and countries.

    The silence is deafening.

    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/2017972220904030654

    *and the odd PBer.

    The scale of corruption is unprecedented.
    It’s industrial in scale.
    I agree on part of that, but I think that corruption was was probably always industrial in scale, for example in the gilded age and the behaviour of robber barons.

    I think that Trump may be unique in treating the position of the Presidency itself as a criminal enterprise, and seeking to overthrow the US Constitution and legal and democratic systems.
    On the history of corruption in the US -

    "My price is one hundred thirty million dollars. If, when you are ready to pay, I happen to be out of town, you may hand it over to my friend, the Treasurer of the United States."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,719

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial
    I think I’m just a bit more realistic. I don’t doubt the scale of the crime, but how much evidence do they need? They have vast files. Andy and Mandy are being crucified in the press, rightly so, and I think this ends badly for Mandy as he has almost certainly lied about money, and repeatedly. Andrew is done, gone, everything stripped from him.

    I think anyone who thinks the key to the puzzle is those two clowns testifying is naive in the extreme.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,191

    Mandelson resigns from the labour party

    Is he the promised big Labour signing to Reform?
    I wonder who phoned Mandy to let him know he'd resigned?
  • Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial
    I think I’m just a bit more realistic. I don’t doubt the scale of the crime, but how much evidence do they need? They have vast files. Andy and Mandy are being crucified in the press, rightly so, and I think this ends badly for Mandy as he has almost certainly lied about money, and repeatedly. Andrew is done, gone, everything stripped from him.

    I think anyone who thinks the key to the puzzle is those two clowns testifying is naive in the extreme.
    Nobody knows where this ends for Andrew and Mandelson but lots more to come out with demands the Met Police reopen their investigations

    This is a slow burn story with more to come
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,971
    dixiedean said:

    It reflects badly on the United States that the only two people seemingly receiving any inconvenience whatsoever from their association with Epstein are Mandy and Andy.

    Those are the two in the spotlight here. In the USA there are others in the spotlight.

    Ghislane Maxwell is rather inconvenienced too of course. It is notable that the only person in prison from this ring is a woman.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,226
    dixiedean said:

    It reflects badly on the United States that the only two people seemingly receiving any inconvenience whatsoever from their association with Epstein are Mandy and Andy.

    The French elite seem to be getting off lightly as well given how many of them are wrapped up in it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,923

    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."

    How long are financial records held for in wanting-to-be-rich land?

    Will that still be in bank archives, or even his tax returns (if he declared it)?

    20-22 years ago for Mandelson was several years after he resigned because he was caught with his his undeclared £373k loan from Geoffrey Robinson, so he would perhaps be needing some money.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,886

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    Mandelson cannot be 'ordered' as he is not an American citizen. Goodness knows I have no liking for the horrid little weasel, but if he doesn't want to go there, he has every right not to.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,570
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    It reflects badly on the United States that the only two people seemingly receiving any inconvenience whatsoever from their association with Epstein are Mandy and Andy.

    Those are the two in the spotlight here. In the USA there are others in the spotlight.

    Ghislane Maxwell is rather inconvenienced too of course. It is notable that the only person in prison from this ring is a woman.
    Epstein did die in jail but yes beyond him nobody else male yet charged let alone convicted
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,570
    edited February 1

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,226
    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    They could always Maduro him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,570

    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    They could always Maduro him.
    Unlike the Venezuelans we have better control of our airspace and if they tried that would be just cause to sever diplomatic relations with the US for the foreseeable future
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,923
    edited February 1

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial
    I think I’m just a bit more realistic. I don’t doubt the scale of the crime, but how much evidence do they need? They have vast files. Andy and Mandy are being crucified in the press, rightly so, and I think this ends badly for Mandy as he has almost certainly lied about money, and repeatedly. Andrew is done, gone, everything stripped from him.

    I think anyone who thinks the key to the puzzle is those two clowns testifying is naive in the extreme.
    Asolutely.

    For the UK it's a further emanation of the usual "who can we blame that is not like us", which is the warp and woof standard UK political-media process.

    For the USA it let's some of them go with "look at THE UK", which again is something of a diversion.

    The USA is much worse than even we are at looking ourselves in the mirror.

    Somebody commented about the why. There are hundreds of women and girls who have been waiting for 2 or 3 decades to testify about how they were trafficked and abused by movers and shakers in society, enabled by further movers and shakers, lawyers, judges, public political officials, bankers etc.

    And many said movers and shakers do not want anything to come out.

    My best comparison is perhaps Georgian or Victoria society, preeningly virtuous on the surface, but rotten underneath.

    I think it's important to recall that the release process has been deliberately manipulated by to protect Trump and his friends.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,964
    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    Team Trump doesn't want anyone giving evidence unless that evidence implicates Bill Clinton and exonerates Trump.

    I have been watching Allison Gill on the Meidastouch Network on YouTube. She has a considerable amount of detail about girls who have testified and implicated the Trump Modelling Agency and specific individuals and that evidence was not forthcoming in this last tranche including the Maria Farmer testimony.

    The naivety on here that Todd Blanche wants any testimony from Labour Party Grandees Andy and Mandy is quite touching.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,235
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    It reflects badly on the United States that the only two people seemingly receiving any inconvenience whatsoever from their association with Epstein are Mandy and Andy.

    Those are the two in the spotlight here. In the USA there are others in the spotlight.

    Ghislane Maxwell is rather inconvenienced too of course. It is notable that the only person in prison from this ring is a woman.
    Yes.
    However I excluded her as her relationship with Epstein was considerably more significant.
    You're right though of course.
    It's all in plain sight yet the US refuses to see.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,964
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    They could always Maduro him.
    Unlike the Venezuelans we have better control of our airspace and if they tried that would be just cause to sever diplomatic relations with the US for the foreseeable future
    Err...

    They already have a f***load of hardware and military personnel in Lakenheath, Mildenhall and Fairford so do they need to worry about our "Golden Dome"?
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 467

    kinabalu said:

    If anyone's feeling over-promoted and out of their depth in their day job, I can heartily recommend "listening to Zach Polanski talk about foreign policy and defence" as a cure

    https://x.com/BristOliver/status/2018027180094107988

    There are two people best qualified to screw the nation and their own voters and they are on the ascent. They are Wacky "we are leaving NATO" Zachy and Nigel "I'm Americanising UK healthcare" Farage.
    I can't abide populism. It's all delusional nonsense. But if pushed I'd prefer my delusional nonsense to be free of small-minded, mean-spirited xenophobia, so it's Reform UK I'm most worried about.
    The problem with Zach, like Corbyn before him is his function will be to split the left of centre vote and deliver some degree of RefCon Government.
    That’s down to Labour. I’m sure that a wealth tax, clean rivers, cost of living issues acknowledged and tackled, plus policies designed to build the backlog of unbuilt houses in land banks, would undercut Zack and renew Kier.


    TBH I’m not in this politics lark for personal power or gain. I just want to change our fucking grim future.

    Labour need to own their failure. And if not I suggest a change to PR. Else it will be Nigel vs Zack for the foreseeable.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,923

    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    Team Trump doesn't want anyone giving evidence unless that evidence implicates Bill Clinton and exonerates Trump.

    I have been watching Allison Gill on the Meidastouch Network on YouTube. She has a considerable amount of detail about girls who have testified and implicated the Trump Modelling Agency and specific individuals and that evidence was not forthcoming in this last tranche including the Maria Farmer testimony.

    The naivety on here that Todd Blanche wants any testimony from Labour Party Grandees Andy and Mandy is quite touching.
    AIUI there are now more than 100 victims willing to testify, and many times more who are identified but not willing to go public yet.

    I've followed, but tbh sometimes Meidas lay it on a bit thick for me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,570

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    They could always Maduro him.
    Unlike the Venezuelans we have better control of our airspace and if they tried that would be just cause to sever diplomatic relations with the US for the foreseeable future
    Err...

    They already have a f***load of hardware and military personnel in Lakenheath, Mildenhall and Fairford so do they need to worry about our "Golden Dome"?
    Well they would all have to be ordered to leave if they launched a Maduro style operation on UK style
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,923
    edited 12:12AM
    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    It's the Telegraph's British media dodgy wording in the headline.

    The headline refers to Congress "summoning" Mandelson.

    Later on the article admits he cannot be forced to attend.

    Full article link:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/fb1d0a01204e33d8
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,570
    edited 12:13AM

    kinabalu said:

    If anyone's feeling over-promoted and out of their depth in their day job, I can heartily recommend "listening to Zach Polanski talk about foreign policy and defence" as a cure

    https://x.com/BristOliver/status/2018027180094107988

    There are two people best qualified to screw the nation and their own voters and they are on the ascent. They are Wacky "we are leaving NATO" Zachy and Nigel "I'm Americanising UK healthcare" Farage.
    I can't abide populism. It's all delusional nonsense. But if pushed I'd prefer my delusional nonsense to be free of small-minded, mean-spirited xenophobia, so it's Reform UK I'm most worried about.
    The problem with Zach, like Corbyn before him is his function will be to split the left of centre vote and deliver some degree of RefCon Government.
    That’s down to Labour. I’m sure that a wealth tax, clean rivers, cost of living issues acknowledged and tackled, plus policies designed to build the backlog of unbuilt houses in land banks, would undercut Zack and renew Kier.


    TBH I’m not in this politics lark for personal power or gain. I just want to change our fucking grim future.

    Labour need to own their failure. And if not I suggest a change to PR. Else it will be Nigel vs Zack for the foreseeable.
    So rehashed Corbynism in other words? And if that was really the case the Greens would already be well ahead of Labour in second not level with the LDs in 4th. What is Labour's mansion tax on properties, farms and family businesses over £2 million and ISA cash limit if not a wealth tax anyway?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,892
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    Team Trump doesn't want anyone giving evidence unless that evidence implicates Bill Clinton and exonerates Trump.

    I have been watching Allison Gill on the Meidastouch Network on YouTube. She has a considerable amount of detail about girls who have testified and implicated the Trump Modelling Agency and specific individuals and that evidence was not forthcoming in this last tranche including the Maria Farmer testimony.

    The naivety on here that Todd Blanche wants any testimony from Labour Party Grandees Andy and Mandy is quite touching.
    AIUI there are now more than 100 victims willing to testify, and many times more who are identified but not willing to go public yet.

    I've followed, but tbh sometimes Meidas lay it on a bit thick for me.
    I've not been subscribed to them for ages, but occasionally the algorithm pops things up for me, and seems like some of the audience is getting a little sick of the clickbaity presentation they engage in.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,876
    I have no time for Mandelson or Andrew but why are these the only two that are being pressurised into giving evidence to Congress ?

    It seems that half the celebrity world visited Epstein in the Caribbean .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,078
    edited 12:30AM

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't resist a bit of Pete Buttigieg on Fox:

    “When you see an American — this photo of an American woman opening the door to her home and on her doorstep finds half a dozen agents, federal agents, in tactical gear that is more tricked out than what I would take outside the wire when I was in Afghanistan, again, on the door of an American porch — I think most people get that is wrong. It is not making us safer.”

    Whoever heads the ticket in 2028 he surely has to be on it. By far the most articulate politico in the US right now.

    Articulate possibly.

    A liar certainly.

    There are few people as responsible for Biden's second term attempt as Pete Buttigieg.
    I don't think that he was doing the lying but it was a bad judgment call, certainly. Probably cost them the election and cost the rest of us 4 years of a complete mad man.
    Lying or judgement, its just semantics.

    Ultimately Biden's cabinet, certainly collectively and probably individually, could have forced him not to seek a second term.

    Yet they all acquiesced in the stupidity, all accepted that it could end in disaster.
    The US cabinet does not meet often, typically just a couple of times a year, so it's much less of a check than in the UK.

    Really, responsibility lies with Harris. She was the one who should have said "i cannot be your vice presidential candidate, because you are mentally incapable of doing the job".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,964
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    Team Trump doesn't want anyone giving evidence unless that evidence implicates Bill Clinton and exonerates Trump.

    I have been watching Allison Gill on the Meidastouch Network on YouTube. She has a considerable amount of detail about girls who have testified and implicated the Trump Modelling Agency and specific individuals and that evidence was not forthcoming in this last tranche including the Maria Farmer testimony.

    The naivety on here that Todd Blanche wants any testimony from Labour Party Grandees Andy and Mandy is quite touching.
    AIUI there are now more than 100 victims willing to testify, and many times more who are identified but not willing to go public yet.

    I've followed, but tbh sometimes Meidas lay it on a bit thick for me.
    I've not been subscribed to them for ages, but occasionally the algorithm pops things up for me, and seems like some of the audience is getting a little sick of the clickbaity presentation they engage in.
    TBH most of these anti-Trump, Dem. adjacent channels oversell Trump's immediate peril. By the end there was never any jeopardy. The anti-Trump former Republican channels seem to be more reliable and circumspect.

    I still find them all informative.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,013
    Interesting discussion about tiktok and censorship. Quite disturbing where the US is heading

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5BM3odQ00
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,954
    One hates to doubt Lord Mandelson's veracity or accuse him of taking (or not, since he has no recollection) money under false pretences but his claimed lobbying of the British government over bankers' bonuses appears to have borne no fruit. Of course, then-Chancellor Alistair Darling is no longer with us so we can hardly ask him if any phone calls were made.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,857
    edited 12:42AM
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't resist a bit of Pete Buttigieg on Fox:

    “When you see an American — this photo of an American woman opening the door to her home and on her doorstep finds half a dozen agents, federal agents, in tactical gear that is more tricked out than what I would take outside the wire when I was in Afghanistan, again, on the door of an American porch — I think most people get that is wrong. It is not making us safer.”

    Whoever heads the ticket in 2028 he surely has to be on it. By far the most articulate politico in the US right now.

    Articulate possibly.

    A liar certainly.

    There are few people as responsible for Biden's second term attempt as Pete Buttigieg.
    I don't think that he was doing the lying but it was a bad judgment call, certainly. Probably cost them the election and cost the rest of us 4 years of a complete mad man.
    Lying or judgement, its just semantics.

    Ultimately Biden's cabinet, certainly collectively and probably individually, could have forced him not to seek a second term.

    Yet they all acquiesced in the stupidity, all accepted that it could end in disaster.
    The US cabinet does not meet often, typically just a couple of times a year, so it's much less of a check than in the UK.

    Really, responsibility lies with Harris. She was the one who should have said "i cannot be your vice presidential candidate, because you are mentally incapable of doing the job".
    I refuse to believe that any of Biden's cabinet weren't aware he wasn't well enough for a second term.

    Given that, any of them could have said to Biden "I'm sorry Mr President but you have to announce you will not run for a second term, if not I will resign and tell the world what I think".

    As for Harris, culpable as she is, also had a conflict of interest of wanting to be the candidate herself.

    And if Biden had been forced out soon enough then there would have been a primary which Harris would have been unlikely to win.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,191

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't resist a bit of Pete Buttigieg on Fox:

    “When you see an American — this photo of an American woman opening the door to her home and on her doorstep finds half a dozen agents, federal agents, in tactical gear that is more tricked out than what I would take outside the wire when I was in Afghanistan, again, on the door of an American porch — I think most people get that is wrong. It is not making us safer.”

    Whoever heads the ticket in 2028 he surely has to be on it. By far the most articulate politico in the US right now.

    Articulate possibly.

    A liar certainly.

    There are few people as responsible for Biden's second term attempt as Pete Buttigieg.
    I don't think that he was doing the lying but it was a bad judgment call, certainly. Probably cost them the election and cost the rest of us 4 years of a complete mad man.
    Lying or judgement, its just semantics.

    Ultimately Biden's cabinet, certainly collectively and probably individually, could have forced him not to seek a second term.

    Yet they all acquiesced in the stupidity, all accepted that it could end in disaster.
    The US cabinet does not meet often, typically just a couple of times a year, so it's much less of a check than in the UK.

    Really, responsibility lies with Harris. She was the one who should have said "i cannot be your vice presidential candidate, because you are mentally incapable of doing the job".
    I refuse to believe that any of Biden's cabinet weren't aware he wasn't well enough for a second term.

    Given that, any of them could have said to Biden "I'm sorry Mr President but you have to announce you will not run for a second term, if not I will resign and tell the world what I think".

    As for Harris, culpable as she is, also had a conflict of interest of wanting to be the candidate herself.

    And if Biden had been forced out soon enough then there would have been a primary which Harris would have been unlikely to win.
    Regardless, the US electorate had a choice between a safe choice (sane, democratic, diplomatic) and a corrupt, disruptive, anti-democratic, spiteful egomaniac. For whatever reasons (stupidity, misogyny, racism or greed?), they chose the latter despite Trump's character being plain in foresight.
    The Democrats definitely made mistakes, but those were far greater in not undoing Trump's anti-democratic preparation from his first term than in candidate choice or staying with Biden. .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,923

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks as if the political class are demanding Andrew and Mandelson both give evidence in the US

    At the risk of reigniting last night's debate, @HYUFD isn't entirely wrong when he draws comparison with the Ann Sacoolas case. Who are they trying to go after? Epstein is dead, Maxwell in prison.
    All those complicit in their crimes and justice for their victims
    And how will Andy and Mandy help? They know the names of the staff? Really? Besides, they are never going to testify.
    Either you or @HYUFD are naive or in denial

    Mandelson set to be ordered to give evidence in US Epstein inquiry

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/01/mandelson-could-be-ordered-to-give-evidence-in-us-epstein/
    I have no great sympathy for Mandy on this but 'ordered?' The Americans can just 'order' a British peer of the realm to come to them but when the likes of Americans like Anne Sacoolas kill UK citizens there is no way on earth they will be expected to appear in some British court. Who are the Americans in these disclosures who have been 'ordered' to appear before this Congressional cttee? Next to none that I can see
    Team Trump doesn't want anyone giving evidence unless that evidence implicates Bill Clinton and exonerates Trump.

    I have been watching Allison Gill on the Meidastouch Network on YouTube. She has a considerable amount of detail about girls who have testified and implicated the Trump Modelling Agency and specific individuals and that evidence was not forthcoming in this last tranche including the Maria Farmer testimony.

    The naivety on here that Todd Blanche wants any testimony from Labour Party Grandees Andy and Mandy is quite touching.
    AIUI there are now more than 100 victims willing to testify, and many times more who are identified but not willing to go public yet.

    I've followed, but tbh sometimes Meidas lay it on a bit thick for me.
    I've not been subscribed to them for ages, but occasionally the algorithm pops things up for me, and seems like some of the audience is getting a little sick of the clickbaity presentation they engage in.
    TBH most of these anti-Trump, Dem. adjacent channels oversell Trump's immediate peril. By the end there was never any jeopardy. The anti-Trump former Republican channels seem to be more reliable and circumspect.

    I still find them all informative.
    I think we can be more precise than that.

    Meidas' strength is that they are based around practicing lawyers and legal commentators, with a significant audience and access to significant commentators. So they are excellent on the detail eg of Supreme Court oral hearings. In one way it's as if David Allen Green was combined with Martin Lewis, wrapped up in a tabloid Youtube firehose format.

    In the UK there's relatively little so cross-cutting between specialism and media, unless perhaps the likes of Joe Bloggs plus the centre-right equivalent. Partly because the UK audience cannot support that with a professional production setup attached.

    The last UK operation I can think of that was after the decent journalism popular tabloid format may have been the Today newspaper. Perhaps there are others.

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,697
    For rcs1000: "Meetings of the president with the full cabinet tend to get a pretty bad press. Many who have attended them describe them as boring and a waste of time. Indeed, some presidents have held very few. Most presidents have held cabinet meetings only about once a month. Clinton managed only 2 or 3 a year, while at the other extreme both Carter and Reagan held 36 meetings in their first year in office. The number of meetings tends to decline as the administration wears on."
    https://quizlet.com/gb/12658529/the-presidency-the-cabinet-flash-cards/

    So, the short answer for how often the US Cabinet meets is: "It depends/"

    https://quizlet.com/gb/12658529/the-presidency-the-cabinet-flash-cards/

    On the general question of Biden's disability: From what I can tell, he often had periods of lucidity, but would fade out from time to time, especially when he was tired.

    (One thing that kept me from paying as much attention to it as I should have, is his stuttering problem. He overcame it mostly, but even when he was much younger, he had periods in which he had trouble speaking clearly.)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,478
    @TSE @rcs1000 , a situation has arisen regarding the trans article backstage. One of the discussants objects to the inclusion of a report based on their assessment of the author. I have defended the inclusion on the grounds that the report is a separate concept from the putative characteristics of the author - Charles Dickens was an anti-semite but "A Christmas Carol" is a good story - so I've told them they can put their arguments in the Appendix. To make that work, can you please advise them on the difference between fair comment and defamation, and the importance of neutral point of view? I don't want to submit an article you can't publish without Carter Fuck writing a letter.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,195

    Greens now clear favourites on BF for by-election.

    If 22% is an accurate Labour VI percentage nationally, why are the Greens favourites for a safer than average Labour seat?

    I do wonder if there's a credibility issue with current polling.
    Because the way Labour has handled things prior, gives those voters unhappy about it a free hit. Whether there are enough of them remains to be seen.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,195

    LOL

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8jm2vpve1o

    "Allegations which I believe to be false that he made financial payments to me 20 years ago, and of which I have no record or recollection, need investigating by me."

    I expect he’ll take an age over it and we’ll never hear anything more about it
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,195
    nico67 said:

    I have no time for Mandelson or Andrew but why are these the only two that are being pressurised into giving evidence to Congress ?

    It seems that half the celebrity world visited Epstein in the Caribbean .

    Anyone in Hollywood knows that Brits make the best, and most convenient, villains
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,558

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    On the decline of high streets, I sense a degree of hypocrisy in the zeitgeist, as in:

    It's a bloody disgrace. Our high street is collapsing before our very eyes. Shops are closing all the time. Something should be done. Mind you, personally I've bought everything I need from Amazon and Asda home delivery for the last 10 years, so couldn't be arsed to go to the high street anyway.

    Trying to return it to what it once was is a fool's game. I don't think everywhere which used to have a viable high street will get one back no matter the policy pronouncements, and our expectations need to change about what they can offer and how many places even have one worthy of the name.
    What we need in our High Streets is a lot more people and the obvious way to achieve that is to have them live there by converting a lot of the unused retail space into housing. Once enough people live in our town centres again local shops, restaurants and cafes will thrive making them more attractive place to go.

    What is needed is changes to the General Development Order so that there is an almost irrebuttable presumption in favour of change of use and a removal of conditions about parking and the like so that the alterations are commercially viable. Its really not complicated.
    Its not just unused retail space which needs converting but much of the used retail space as well.

    Quality of shops is as important as quantity of shops and the former locations of M&S, HoF and Debenhams becoming what look like third world jumble sales is not an improvement.

    Various vape shops, convenience stores, cafes which never have any customers and sundry other shops which don't seem to have a purpose would also be better used for residential purposes.
    It's the never ending supply of charity shops, who are exempted something like 80% of their business rates and who increasingly exist as adjuncts of the state who funnel them money for the "services" that they provide that irritate me. Vaping shops, with their colourful goods designed to attract children, are indeed another blight.
    Charity shops near me include…

    Cancer Research UK: god forbid we cure cancer! I’m not aware of CRUK taking any money from the state.

    Amnesty: don’t receive any money from the state.

    British Heart Foundation: ditto.

    PDSA: ditto.
    CRUK, BHF, PDSA and Octavian are among the best.

    Shelter, Oxfam and increasingly StC are essentially lobbying organisations

    Amnesty and Greenpeace are basically political organisations now
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,972
    Provocative explanation for the Boriswave.

    There are a lot of people on the right who don't understand why, after Brexit, Boris Johnson enormously increased immigration. But I think this is a big part of it. Huge immigration meant the GDP number went up instead of stagnating and the right could dispute Brexit's failure.
    https://x.com/thomasforth/status/2018006003309011054
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,992
    Who wants to see Lord Mandelson in his underpants at 5am! 😂
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,679

    DoctorG said:

    DoctorG said:


    Councils are caught in a trap where councillors think they can rewind the clock 20 plus years and go back to thriving High streets pre Internet. Sadly this is unlikely to happen.

    In Greenock, which I unfortunately have to visit occasionally, the main shopping street ended up in a terrible state. About half of the shops closed, with much of the rest being bookies (5 of them), shady 'slots' places, charity shops and dodgy Turkish barbers.

    The Council pulled together funding from various bodies to renovate the area. Lots of nice paving, new trees, benches, etc.

    Result? Nada. No new shops have opened, the existing ones still struggle and pedestrian traffic is no higher than before. The big retail park a few miles away in Port Glasgow has hoovered up all the business and some slabs and trees-inna-box isn't going to change that.

    At least they do seem to have now accepted the days of a bustling high street are gone. The rest of the town centre is being redeveloped with UK government funds, which involves demolishing half of the run down shopping mall to make way for new housing.
    What you've said for Greenock applies to so many towns right across the west of Scotland - theres a real divide in afffluence between areas of growing population around Edinburgh and areas like Inverclyde and D & G. And no, I don't think the lack of cycle lanes or trees surrounded by slabs is the big problem, nice as they may look.

    You can hardly blame people for shopping online when its cheaper. You can even get goods carted to your door for less price than it takes you to go downtown and buy from a shop.

    Long term, not sure what the solution is, other than more housing in high streets. It's just going to take some Councils a wee while yet before they figure it all out. The UK government levelling up cash needs to be targeted much better than some examples I've seen
    Drastic measures are needed to unblock the greedy landlord / property fund / bank rental logjam. I would give local authorities the legal right to set a fair rent for the property, overriding existing rent agreements. If property is classed as an investment, it should be an investment that can fall, not just rise in value.
    As with residential property or planning permission, the way to do it is with escalating taxes on empty units.

    If a shop unit is empty for a year, the taxes should be high enough to make landlords want to get out of it.

    From the government side, balance this with very much reduced business rates on new businesses. In certain cases, look at compulsory purchase of rows of derelict shops for conversion to housing.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,383
    GOP Senator says the Senate is very, very corrupt. Her solution may surprise you - or not.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5718067-anna-luna-calls-senate-corrupt/

    “I also have respect for our Speaker, and this is not directed at him. The Senate is very, very corrupt. Many of the Senators we would consider our ‘friends’ don’t want the filibuster removed because they don’t actually want President Trump’s agenda to succeed,” Luna said in a lengthy Sunday post on the social platform X.

    “Many of these people have been in office for far too long and think they are the ones in power, not [the president of the United States (POTUS)],” she added.


    Solution: Get rid of RINO's and put in Trump backed candidates. Problem solved.
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