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  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,994
    edited 5:58AM
    cancelled

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,994
    The most important byelection for a very long time?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azllzAusp6k
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,552

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,398
    Roger said:

    The most important byelection for a very long time?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azllzAusp6k

    I would not put Reform’s chances higher than 10-15%, in this seat. It would require a very divided left wing vote.

    If the Greens do beat Labour, that is very bad news for the latter.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,994
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    The most important byelection for a very long time?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azllzAusp6k

    I would not put Reform’s chances higher than 10-15%, in this seat. It would require a very divided left wing vote.

    If the Greens do beat Labour, that is very bad news for the latter.

    I agree and Reform couldn't have chosen a more dislikable candidate. I think this is Greens for the asking. Not that Owen Jones is a particularly good advocate. Could someone tell him "Party" is spelt with a "T"
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,994

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
    It used to be Krugerrands. I got 10 when I was 21 and sold therm for £100 or £200 each
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    edited 6:44AM
    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,949

    kyf_100 said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Am I alone in my weird moral universe where I think that when Gates is weighed and measured that his shenanigans with Russian pros is far outweighed by his efforts to rid Africa of Malaria?

    I’m not someone who gets remotely bothered by famous people’s sexual kicks but I do appreciate that they can have other sides that use their wealth and influence for something that is a huge benefit to the world. I don’t think anyone who will be alive in the future because Gates had loads of money and had dodgy behaviour will begrudge him getting syph or crabs.

    Maybe my moral compass is wrong (in fact I know it’s wonky) but I’m ok with this as long as the hookers were of age and not trafficked.

    How naive to think that hookers are not trafficked, raped, coerced and beaten up and bused in multiple ways by their pimps and traffickers, as well as their clients.

    Ok, disclaimer I have never used a sex worker, I have known and know several for weird reasons. A few I have tried to help or convince to get out and others are absolutely in control of how they use their bodies. They do not have pimps and -regardless of me not understanding it - claim to enjoy what their choice of what to do with their body gives them the lifestyle they want.

    You of all people should appreciate that there are women who are forced to sell themselves and there are women who use their bodies as they wish and it is certainly not up to anyone, yet alone a man, to tell them what they should or should not do.

    Many, if not most sex workers are coerced but there is a substantial number of women who, especially in rarified environments of wealth and society, who mix and choose to make money from something that they would do anyway, you are far too sharp and worldly to deny otherwise.

    To argue that all women are coerced would be to deny all women agency.
    "Sex worker"

    Prostitution is not work. It is abuse of women by men.
    So you are against women having any agency to decide that they use their own body for earning from sex if that is something they would want to do?

    And I used “sex worker” because it appears that it’s the more acceptable phrase for prostitute and has fewer of the negative connotations that prostitute does.
    I'll throw a little fuel on the fire here by pointing out that many trans women are forced into sex work precisely because of the attitudes that Cyclefree has displayed on this site, attitudes that keep them out of 'normal' society and normal jobs because of bigotry and prejudice - see the poor trans woman working in M&S who was the target of a campaign of abuse and vitriol last year for simply asking a woman and her daughter if they were required assistance. How many employers would take on a trans person now knowing that at any moment they could be the target of a hysterical campaign about "perverts" working in shops?

    I will add that I agree with you that while some women are indeed trafficked and exploited, women have agency, and I have known (as friends through my social circle, not as a client!) some very high class call girls who earned more in their 20s and 30s than most people will in a lifetime and are now very happily retired. It is a woman's right to choose - and if that means choosing that life, it isn't for us to condemn them.
    I don't think many would codemn the women for their choices, but the men who make the world in such a way that women would make those choices.

    If we didn't live in a patriarchy in which men routinely held power over women, and monopolise wealth and income, we'd see drastically fewer women making such a choice.

    So it's hardly a free choice. At the very least there's economic coercion, if not psychological or physical coercion.
    That’s also true for, say, people working as office cleaners.
    Yes. I think in a previous discussion along these lines I also said that I wouldn't want my daughter to become a professional toilet cleaner, just as I wouldn't want her to sell her body.
    Toilet cleaner is a fine and noble form of work. My favourite film of recent years "Perfect Days" is about the life of a toilet cleaner in Tokyo.

    https://boxd.it/76jTqV
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,061
    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Am I alone in my weird moral universe where I think that when Gates is weighed and measured that his shenanigans with Russian pros is far outweighed by his efforts to rid Africa of Malaria?

    I’m not someone who gets remotely bothered by famous people’s sexual kicks but I do appreciate that they can have other sides that use their wealth and influence for something that is a huge benefit to the world. I don’t think anyone who will be alive in the future because Gates had loads of money and had dodgy behaviour will begrudge him getting syph or crabs.

    Maybe my moral compass is wrong (in fact I know it’s wonky) but I’m ok with this as long as the hookers were of age and not trafficked.

    How naive to think that hookers are not trafficked, raped, coerced and beaten up and bused in multiple ways by their pimps and traffickers, as well as their clients.

    Ok, disclaimer I have never used a sex worker, I have known and know several for weird reasons. A few I have tried to help or convince to get out and others are absolutely in control of how they use their bodies. They do not have pimps and -regardless of me not understanding it - claim to enjoy what their choice of what to do with their body gives them the lifestyle they want.

    You of all people should appreciate that there are women who are forced to sell themselves and there are women who use their bodies as they wish and it is certainly not up to anyone, yet alone a man, to tell them what they should or should not do.

    Many, if not most sex workers are coerced but there is a substantial number of women who, especially in rarified environments of wealth and society, who mix and choose to make money from something that they would do anyway, you are far too sharp and worldly to deny otherwise.

    To argue that all women are coerced would be to deny all women agency.
    "Sex worker"

    Prostitution is not work. It is abuse of women by men.
    So you are against women having any agency to decide that they use their own body for earning from sex if that is something they would want to do?

    And I used “sex worker” because it appears that it’s the more acceptable phrase for prostitute and has fewer of the negative connotations that prostitute does.
    I'll throw a little fuel on the fire here by pointing out that many trans women are forced into sex work precisely because of the attitudes that Cyclefree has displayed on this site, attitudes that keep them out of 'normal' society and normal jobs because of bigotry and prejudice - see the poor trans woman working in M&S who was the target of a campaign of abuse and vitriol last year for simply asking a woman and her daughter if they were required assistance. How many employers would take on a trans person now knowing that at any moment they could be the target of a hysterical campaign about "perverts" working in shops?

    I will add that I agree with you that while some women are indeed trafficked and exploited, women have agency, and I have known (as friends through my social circle, not as a client!) some very high class call girls who earned more in their 20s and 30s than most people will in a lifetime and are now very happily retired. It is a woman's right to choose - and if that means choosing that life, it isn't for us to condemn them.
    I don't think many would codemn the women for their choices, but the men who make the world in such a way that women would make those choices.

    If we didn't live in a patriarchy in which men routinely held power over women, and monopolise wealth and income, we'd see drastically fewer women making such a choice.

    So it's hardly a free choice. At the very least there's economic coercion, if not psychological or physical coercion.
    That’s also true for, say, people working as office cleaners.
    Yes. I think in a previous discussion along these lines I also said that I wouldn't want my daughter to become a professional toilet cleaner, just as I wouldn't want her to sell her body.
    Toilet cleaner is a fine and noble form of work. My favourite film of recent years "Perfect Days" is about the life of a toilet cleaner in Tokyo.

    https://boxd.it/76jTqV
    That is a fabulous movie, about taking pride in your work.

    I loved it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933
    Roger said:

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
    It used to be Krugerrands. I got 10 when I was 21 and sold therm for £100 or £200 each
    Costco sells gold and silver bars. Half a kilogram for £60,000.
    https://www.costco.co.uk/search?searchOption=uk-search-all&text=gold

    That's not a recommendation. It simply always tickled me that people could nip out for a spot of shopping and come back with a gold bar among their groceries.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    edited 6:57AM

    Roger said:

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
    It used to be Krugerrands. I got 10 when I was 21 and sold therm for £100 or £200 each
    Costco sells gold and silver bars. Half a kilogram for £60,000.
    https://www.costco.co.uk/search?searchOption=uk-search-all&text=gold

    That's not a recommendation. It simply always tickled me that people could nip out for a spot of shopping and come back with a gold bar among their groceries.
    £60k....about the cost of a standard Mrs U visit to CostCo!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,949
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    The most important byelection for a very long time?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azllzAusp6k

    I would not put Reform’s chances higher than 10-15%, in this seat. It would require a very divided left wing vote.

    If the Greens do beat Labour, that is very bad news for the latter.

    Nah, I don't think the Greens winning is existential for Labour, indeed it could be their savior. Labour need to wake up to the fact that they are shedding twice as many votes to their left as to their right.

    It would also show that the voters get tactical voting as a mechanism to kerp out Reform, and that may well save Labours bacon in a hundreds of seats.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,949
    edited 7:04AM
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Am I alone in my weird moral universe where I think that when Gates is weighed and measured that his shenanigans with Russian pros is far outweighed by his efforts to rid Africa of Malaria?

    I’m not someone who gets remotely bothered by famous people’s sexual kicks but I do appreciate that they can have other sides that use their wealth and influence for something that is a huge benefit to the world. I don’t think anyone who will be alive in the future because Gates had loads of money and had dodgy behaviour will begrudge him getting syph or crabs.

    Maybe my moral compass is wrong (in fact I know it’s wonky) but I’m ok with this as long as the hookers were of age and not trafficked.

    How naive to think that hookers are not trafficked, raped, coerced and beaten up and bused in multiple ways by their pimps and traffickers, as well as their clients.

    Ok, disclaimer I have never used a sex worker, I have known and know several for weird reasons. A few I have tried to help or convince to get out and others are absolutely in control of how they use their bodies. They do not have pimps and -regardless of me not understanding it - claim to enjoy what their choice of what to do with their body gives them the lifestyle they want.

    You of all people should appreciate that there are women who are forced to sell themselves and there are women who use their bodies as they wish and it is certainly not up to anyone, yet alone a man, to tell them what they should or should not do.

    Many, if not most sex workers are coerced but there is a substantial number of women who, especially in rarified environments of wealth and society, who mix and choose to make money from something that they would do anyway, you are far too sharp and worldly to deny otherwise.

    To argue that all women are coerced would be to deny all women agency.
    "Sex worker"

    Prostitution is not work. It is abuse of women by men.
    So you are against women having any agency to decide that they use their own body for earning from sex if that is something they would want to do?

    And I used “sex worker” because it appears that it’s the more acceptable phrase for prostitute and has fewer of the negative connotations that prostitute does.
    I'll throw a little fuel on the fire here by pointing out that many trans women are forced into sex work precisely because of the attitudes that Cyclefree has displayed on this site, attitudes that keep them out of 'normal' society and normal jobs because of bigotry and prejudice - see the poor trans woman working in M&S who was the target of a campaign of abuse and vitriol last year for simply asking a woman and her daughter if they were required assistance. How many employers would take on a trans person now knowing that at any moment they could be the target of a hysterical campaign about "perverts" working in shops?

    I will add that I agree with you that while some women are indeed trafficked and exploited, women have agency, and I have known (as friends through my social circle, not as a client!) some very high class call girls who earned more in their 20s and 30s than most people will in a lifetime and are now very happily retired. It is a woman's right to choose - and if that means choosing that life, it isn't for us to condemn them.
    I don't think many would codemn the women for their choices, but the men who make the world in such a way that women would make those choices.

    If we didn't live in a patriarchy in which men routinely held power over women, and monopolise wealth and income, we'd see drastically fewer women making such a choice.

    So it's hardly a free choice. At the very least there's economic coercion, if not psychological or physical coercion.
    That’s also true for, say, people working as office cleaners.
    Yes. I think in a previous discussion along these lines I also said that I wouldn't want my daughter to become a professional toilet cleaner, just as I wouldn't want her to sell her body.
    Toilet cleaner is a fine and noble form of work. My favourite film of recent years "Perfect Days" is about the life of a toilet cleaner in Tokyo.

    https://boxd.it/76jTqV
    That is a fabulous movie, about taking pride in your work.

    I loved it.
    Great soundtrack too.

    It is also about how the analogue life is fulf of pleasure. The central character rejects the digital world for the joy of the everyday. Though, being Japan some of the toilets are high tech.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,949

    Roger said:

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
    It used to be Krugerrands. I got 10 when I was 21 and sold therm for £100 or £200 each
    Costco sells gold and silver bars. Half a kilogram for £60,000.
    https://www.costco.co.uk/search?searchOption=uk-search-all&text=gold

    That's not a recommendation. It simply always tickled me that people could nip out for a spot of shopping and come back with a gold bar among their groceries.
    Isn't one of the surest signs of a speculative bubble about to pop being the point where taxi drivers start giving you investment tips?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,061
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
    It used to be Krugerrands. I got 10 when I was 21 and sold therm for £100 or £200 each
    Costco sells gold and silver bars. Half a kilogram for £60,000.
    https://www.costco.co.uk/search?searchOption=uk-search-all&text=gold

    That's not a recommendation. It simply always tickled me that people could nip out for a spot of shopping and come back with a gold bar among their groceries.
    Isn't one of the surest signs of a speculative bubble about to pop being the point where taxi drivers start giving you investment tips?
    I had that with a Waymo yesterday.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933
    Andrew pictured on all fours over woman in Epstein files
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d9ae4956ed229f3b

    Gift link includes photos. No idea what Andrew MbW is up to. I'm no expert on shagging or necklaces but it looks like HRH-as-was is on a First Aid course in the presence of a bad photographer and someone lounging around in the background.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
    It used to be Krugerrands. I got 10 when I was 21 and sold therm for £100 or £200 each
    Costco sells gold and silver bars. Half a kilogram for £60,000.
    https://www.costco.co.uk/search?searchOption=uk-search-all&text=gold

    That's not a recommendation. It simply always tickled me that people could nip out for a spot of shopping and come back with a gold bar among their groceries.
    Isn't one of the surest signs of a speculative bubble about to pop being the point where taxi drivers start giving you investment tips?
    I had that with a Waymo yesterday.
    Was it set in Albanian driver mode?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,435
    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I missed earlier that Find Out Now have apologized for Fucking Around

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/2017266819317293114?s=20

    They have released the tables (https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/gorton-and-denton-by-election-poll/ ) in the form of a spreadsheet (https://cms.findoutnow.co.uk/app/uploads/2026/01/Gorton-and-Denton-survey.xlsx ) but they have not stated what the margin of error is, other than to say it is "larger than regular voting intenton (sic) poll".

    IIRC, BPC rules[1] say that a poll must contain a statement saying how big the margin of error is. However the rules are different for polls for individual constituencies and those rules say they must provide "...an indication (for parties with a realistic chance of winning) of either (i) each party’s estimated probability of winning each seat, or (ii) the estimated vote shares for each party in each constituency...", which they have done.

    However this is a poor show. I think they don't know what the MOE is for their G&D poll.

    Further reading
    [1] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/objects-and-rules/
    [2] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/faqs-about-polling/
    [3] https://www.mrs.org.uk/mis/MRS Summary of Inquiry Report FOR CIRCULATION FINAL.docx
    The maths is easy, they must know what the confidence intervals (MOE) are.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,435

    Sean_F said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    stodge said:

    The latest Survation VI numbers:

    RefUK: 31% (+2)
    CON: 20% (+1)
    LAB: 18% (-3)
    LD: 12% (+1)
    Green: 12% (+1)

    Fieldwork 28-29 Jan, changes from 10-14 January.

    Gold Standard. The occupy the position Angus Reid once held.
    I am genuinely surpirsed that, with all the Trump stuff recently as well as the connections with Putin, the Reform vote is holding up so well. For all that we are all interested in Trump and he is a bad joke figure to much of the British public, I wonder if there is a widespread decoupling between foreign and domestic issues in the eyes of the electorate that prevents Reform from suffering from their idiotic foreign policy positions.
    I'm surprised you're surprised. Most voters are not interested at all in foreign affairs, much as one wishes they were.
    And the failure to draw that connection could the biggest mistake.

    Becauss Reform's leader, and many of their representatives, idolise a foreign leader who is seeking authoritarian rule, they are quite simply the biggest threat British parliamentary democracy has faced in the modern era.
    I think that Reform would be dire, in government. But, nothing suggests to me that they represent an existential threat to democracy.
    Why not?
    Wrong question. The burden of proof lies with those making the claim, not those denying it. Now personally I think Reform would be terrible for the country both practially and spiritually. But I am not convinced that Farage is going to go down the Trump route. Indeed one of his proposed reforms is the introduction of PR. Something which I pesonaly strongly oppopose but which many on here, particularly on the Left, claim is far more democratic than the current system.
    Farage idolises Trump, even when doing so loses him support, e.g. recently over Greenland. That seems like strong evidence that Farage would go down the Trump route.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,435
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I missed earlier that Find Out Now have apologized for Fucking Around

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/2017266819317293114?s=20

    They have released the tables (https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/gorton-and-denton-by-election-poll/ ) in the form of a spreadsheet (https://cms.findoutnow.co.uk/app/uploads/2026/01/Gorton-and-Denton-survey.xlsx ) but they have not stated what the margin of error is, other than to say it is "larger than regular voting intenton (sic) poll".

    IIRC, BPC rules[1] say that a poll must contain a statement saying how big the margin of error is. However the rules are different for polls for individual constituencies and those rules say they must provide "...an indication (for parties with a realistic chance of winning) of either (i) each party’s estimated probability of winning each seat, or (ii) the estimated vote shares for each party in each constituency...", which they have done.

    However this is a poor show. I think they don't know what the MOE is for their G&D poll.

    Further reading
    [1] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/objects-and-rules/
    [2] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/faqs-about-polling/
    [3] https://www.mrs.org.uk/mis/MRS Summary of Inquiry Report FOR CIRCULATION FINAL.docx
    We know what the margin of error is because with a population/electorate size of 74,306 at the last election and a sample size of 143, the margin of error is 8.2%. Or am I missing something?

    https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/resources/calculators/margin-of-error-calculator
    The MOE varies also depending on the estimate of the vote share.
  • MyEnglandMyEngland Posts: 3
    On taxi drivers giving investment tips as a bubble indicator - I rather suspect the Waymo wasn't trying to pump gold. More likely explaining why it was taking an unexpected detour via Costco...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    boulay said:

    Am I alone in my weird moral universe where I think that when Gates is weighed and measured that his shenanigans with Russian pros is far outweighed by his efforts to rid Africa of Malaria?

    I’m not someone who gets remotely bothered by famous people’s sexual kicks but I do appreciate that they can have other sides that use their wealth and influence for something that is a huge benefit to the world. I don’t think anyone who will be alive in the future because Gates had loads of money and had dodgy behaviour will begrudge him getting syph or crabs.

    Maybe my moral compass is wrong (in fact I know it’s wonky) but I’m ok with this as long as the hookers were of age and not trafficked.

    How naive to think that hookers are not trafficked, raped, coerced and beaten up and bused in multiple ways by their pimps and traffickers, as well as their clients.

    Ok, disclaimer I have never used a sex worker, I have known and know several for weird reasons. A few I have tried to help or convince to get out and others are absolutely in control of how they use their bodies. They do not have pimps and -regardless of me not understanding it - claim to enjoy what their choice of what to do with their body gives them the lifestyle they want.

    You of all people should appreciate that there are women who are forced to sell themselves and there are women who use their bodies as they wish and it is certainly not up to anyone, yet alone a man, to tell them what they should or should not do.

    Many, if not most sex workers are coerced but there is a substantial number of women who, especially in rarified environments of wealth and society, who mix and choose to make money from something that they would do anyway, you are far too sharp and worldly to deny otherwise.

    To argue that all women are coerced would be to deny all women agency.
    "Sex worker"

    Prostitution is not work. It is abuse of women by men.
    So you are against women having any agency to decide that they use their own body for earning from sex if that is something they would want to do?

    And I used “sex worker” because it appears that it’s the more acceptable phrase for prostitute and has fewer of the negative connotations that prostitute does.
    I'll throw a little fuel on the fire here by pointing out that many trans women are forced into sex work precisely because of the attitudes that Cyclefree has displayed on this site, attitudes that keep them out of 'normal' society and normal jobs because of bigotry and prejudice - see the poor trans woman working in M&S who was the target of a campaign of abuse and vitriol last year for simply asking a woman and her daughter if they were required assistance. How many employers would take on a trans person now knowing that at any moment they could be the target of a hysterical campaign about "perverts" working in shops?

    I will add that I agree with you that while some women are indeed trafficked and exploited, women have agency, and I have known (as friends through my social circle, not as a client!) some very high class call girls who earned more in their 20s and 30s than most people will in a lifetime and are now very happily retired. It is a woman's right to choose - and if that means choosing that life, it isn't for us to condemn them.
    I don't think many would codemn the women for their choices, but the men who make the world in such a way that women would make those choices.

    If we didn't live in a patriarchy in which men routinely held power over women, and monopolise wealth and income, we'd see drastically fewer women making such a choice.

    So it's hardly a free choice. At the very least there's economic coercion, if not psychological or physical coercion.
    That’s also true for, say, people working as office cleaners.
    Yes. I think in a previous discussion along these lines I also said that I wouldn't want my daughter to become a professional toilet cleaner, just as I wouldn't want her to sell her body.
    Toilet cleaner is a fine and noble form of work. My favourite film of recent years "Perfect Days" is about the life of a toilet cleaner in Tokyo.

    https://boxd.it/76jTqV
    That is a fabulous movie, about taking pride in your work.

    I loved it.
    Great soundtrack too.

    It is also about how the analogue life is fulf of pleasure. The central character rejects the digital world for the joy of the everyday. Though, being Japan some of the toilets are high tech.
    My grandmother worked as a public toilet attendant. It was probably her fault for not going to university and becoming a lawyer.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933
    MyEngland said:

    On taxi drivers giving investment tips as a bubble indicator - I rather suspect the Waymo wasn't trying to pump gold. More likely explaining why it was taking an unexpected detour via Costco...

    Welcome, kind stranger, on this fine Saturday morning.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,454
    MyEngland said:

    On taxi drivers giving investment tips as a bubble indicator - I rather suspect the Waymo wasn't trying to pump gold. More likely explaining why it was taking an unexpected detour via Costco...

    Welcome to PB, Mr. England.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,379

    MyEngland said:

    On taxi drivers giving investment tips as a bubble indicator - I rather suspect the Waymo wasn't trying to pump gold. More likely explaining why it was taking an unexpected detour via Costco...

    Welcome, kind stranger, on this fine Saturday morning.
    Indeed.

    What's for lunch?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,552

    Andrew pictured on all fours over woman in Epstein files
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d9ae4956ed229f3b

    Gift link includes photos. No idea what Andrew MbW is up to. I'm no expert on shagging or necklaces but it looks like HRH-as-was is on a First Aid course in the presence of a bad photographer and someone lounging around in the background.

    It looks like some slightly seedy parlour game that I am sure led to other stuff.

    But, honestly, everyone knows he is a skeeze (he was known as Handy Andy when I was growing up and it wasn’t because of his DIY skills). He’s been stripped of his titles and chased into ignominious retirement.

    Just leave the poor sod alone at this point. It’s not news.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,379

    Andrew pictured on all fours over woman in Epstein files
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d9ae4956ed229f3b

    Gift link includes photos. No idea what Andrew MbW is up to. I'm no expert on shagging or necklaces but it looks like HRH-as-was is on a First Aid course in the presence of a bad photographer and someone lounging around in the background.

    It looks like some slightly seedy parlour game that I am sure led to other stuff.

    But, honestly, everyone knows he is a skeeze (he was known as Handy Andy when I was growing up and it wasn’t because of his DIY skills). He’s been stripped of his titles and chased into ignominious retirement.

    Just leave the poor sod alone at this point. It’s not news.
    It is far more concerning that the Department of Justice is urgently claiming every reference to Donald Trump is false and still deleting any they find they missed in the initial screening,

    After all, Andrew is an irrelevance unless something truly disastrous happens to six other people. Trump has more power than anyone else in the world (and is using it with astonishing ineptitude, but that's a different problem).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933
    edited 7:54AM
    If you have tears, prepare to shed them now. If you have missed the martyrdom of London bus driver Mark Hehir, 62, I promise you his ordeal will make you choke with incoherent rage.

    As you read of his suffering at the hands of the system, it will crystallise everything that is wrong with the wet, woke, anal, legalistic pettifoggers who run Starmer’s Britain and who have long since abandoned all links with common sense.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-15513581/Sacking-hero-bus-driver-necklace-thief-Starmers-Britain.html

    Boris is not happy that have-a-go hero bus driver was sacked by Keir Starmer, or possibly by the private sector bus company that employed him. One of the two anyway.

    Here is the employment tribunal upholding the sacking:-
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6977768e3fd50ac304b79732/Mr_Mark_Hehir_v_METROLINE_LTD_6018181_2024_Reserved_Judgment.pdf
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,184

    Good morning, everyone.

    Bank branches closing makes it harder to visit them.

    My dad tried paying in a cheque at the nearest Santander the other day and had to go to one further afield because, apparently, such a complex and rare activity was not possible at the local branch.

    You can just take a photo of it with your phone, tablet or computer, using their app, to pay it in
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933
    edited 7:57AM
    EARLY EXIT Eurovision shock as UK’s entrant is secretly AXED after ‘unacceptable comments and behaviour’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/38074517/eurovision-shock-uk-entrant-axed/

    Before rushing to lay UK, there will be a replacement act (if they can find one).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,184
    Roger said:

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    My dad used to keep it in the garage in a metal box with “biological hazard” labels plastered over it…
    It used to be Krugerrands. I got 10 when I was 21 and sold therm for £100 or £200 each
    That’s the sort of sad situation men can get forced into, when no-one will pay for their body?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,584

    EARLY EXIT Eurovision shock as UK’s entrant is secretly AXED after ‘unacceptable comments and behaviour’
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/38074517/eurovision-shock-uk-entrant-axed/

    Before rushing to lay UK, there will be a replacement act (if they can find one).

    Sure that Bosh guy would give it a go if they are desperate.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,184
    At least we didn’t have any more Holocaust voyeurism overnight from our Mr Floppy Dick
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,138


    Just leave the poor sod alone at this point. It’s not news.

    "Poor sod." It's great that somebody will stand up for the disempowered victims like AMW in all this.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,430

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    edited 8:20AM
    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.

    Everybody in China has these bloody things on their bags (or similar weird fluffy things), multiple ones, even grown ass adults.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,346
    Roger said:

    cancelled

    Sorry to hear that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,613

    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.
    This sums up Starmer’s visit to China pretty well. He came back with nothing having given away a lot.

    https://x.com/mrwinmarshall/status/2017207562207170821

    Starmer’s visit to Peking has been a humiliation

    He secured no new FDI deal for UK

    He secured no new bilateral free trade deal

    He secured no new tariff deal other than halving whiskey tariffs from 10% to 5%

    He oversaw UK company AstraZeneca commit $15b investment INTO CHINA - money that could have been invested IN BRITAIN

    And the intelligence-sharing deal, a meaningless attempt to tackle Channel boat crossings, means Britain is a further intelligence risk for our 5 Eyes partners, most importantly the U.S. - who have increasing reason to cut intelligence ties with us

    And in return he got 30 day visa-free travel for Britons in China???? - for anyone who wants to visit the Communist (more accurately fascist) country???

    That’s the win?

    Remember this - the reason why they allowed the mega-embassy to be built in London, the reason why they killed the China spy cases of Berry and Cash was so as to not jeopardise deals with China.

    Starmer sacrificed British sovereignty and got nothing in return

    Labour’s economic plan for Britain was hedged on getting a China deal. Starmer did not get it

    Kowtow Keir’s foreign policy has been one act of treachery after another
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,379
    Dura_Ace said:


    Just leave the poor sod alone at this point. It’s not news.

    "Poor sod." It's great that somebody will stand up for the disempowered victims like AMW in all this.
    It wasn't a reference to his inadequate technique?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    edited 8:34AM
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.
    This sums up Starmer’s visit to China pretty well. He came back with nothing having given away a lot.

    https://x.com/mrwinmarshall/status/2017207562207170821

    A big thing that struck me while in China, Western brands just don't seem to be seen as that cool. Starbucks is getting beat up by Luckin Coffee, iPhones / Earpods, nowhere near as common in the West, of the 3-4 phones everybody has, most are Chinese brands with 87 camera lens for the social media one, the mega screen one for gaming etc and the earbuds mostly commonly seen where these two metal balls that clipped to your ear and were bone conducting. And no sign of NorthFace coats etc that every kid in the UK at least wears. And of course you can easily buy the knock offs in China if it was cost that would stopping people buying this.

    But no instead, everybody is dressed head to toe in brands never seen outside in the West, drinking their Luckin (or bubble tea from Taiwanese brands), picking up snacks from FamilyMart or Lawsons (Japanese brands), driving their Zeekr, Avatr, Aion, Nio.

    Even Nike trainers, yes, definitely that is one item of clothing that is much more common, but still loads of weird ass trainer shoes never seen in the west normally rocked by kids who clearly think they are too cool for Nikes.

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,138
    viewcode said:

    The FT is reporting that Airbus has given up on producing a fighter as part of the franco-german FCAS project.

    Not a great result for Europe when it is attempting to re-arm.

    Possibly good news for UK. GCAP (formerly Tempest) is a UK/Italy/Japan co-production that does not involve the French or the Americans and therefore has a good chance of not being derailed. It may never actually finish, but currently it's in the lead.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dFyQzcvdcM
    There was an article in Defense News last week about how how Italy have got the hump over tech sharing and rapidly ballooning costs in GCAP. Maybe Italy and Germany will just swap programs. The other possibility is Dassault do a 4.5 gen Rafale with TVC, some LO features, conformals, etc. and Airbus do a CCA as two distinct programs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,204

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.
    This sums up Starmer’s visit to China pretty well. He came back with nothing having given away a lot.

    https://x.com/mrwinmarshall/status/2017207562207170821

    .

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.
    High-end fashion is the one area where Western brands still have the edge but that probably won’t last indefinitely.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,094

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    Curious that Bicester Village is still rammed with Chinese tourists buying suitcases and stuffing them full of Western designer brands
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,250
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.
    This sums up Starmer’s visit to China pretty well. He came back with nothing having given away a lot.

    https://x.com/mrwinmarshall/status/2017207562207170821

    Starmer’s visit to Peking has been a humiliation

    He secured no new FDI deal for UK

    He secured no new bilateral free trade deal

    He secured no new tariff deal other than halving whiskey tariffs from 10% to 5%

    He oversaw UK company AstraZeneca commit $15b investment INTO CHINA - money that could have been invested IN BRITAIN

    And the intelligence-sharing deal, a meaningless attempt to tackle Channel boat crossings, means Britain is a further intelligence risk for our 5 Eyes partners, most importantly the U.S. - who have increasing reason to cut intelligence ties with us

    And in return he got 30 day visa-free travel for Britons in China???? - for anyone who wants to visit the Communist (more accurately fascist) country???

    That’s the win?

    Remember this - the reason why they allowed the mega-embassy to be built in London, the reason why they killed the China spy cases of Berry and Cash was so as to not jeopardise deals with China.

    Starmer sacrificed British sovereignty and got nothing in return

    Labour’s economic plan for Britain was hedged on getting a China deal. Starmer did not get it

    Kowtow Keir’s foreign policy has been one act of treachery after another
    Hyperbolic, but I do like "Kowtow Keir".
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,138



    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    It's the other way around if anything with Chinese brands penetrating Western markets. The first Chinese car, Xiaomi SU7 Ultra, came into GranTurismo this week. They have done the R35 GTR/Hyundai Elantra N thing were they juice the simulated performance to make it feel like a rocket ship. Sony/Digital Polyphony don't just do that an random for any manufacturer and it shows how the high end Chinese brands are looking at other markets.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    edited 8:41AM
    Scott_xP said:

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    Curious that Bicester Village is still rammed with Chinese tourists buying suitcases and stuffing them full of Western designer brands
    Well they weren't wearing them and also extra bizarre, you can buy it all in China, cheaper and the knock off stuff now is basically just as good. People trying to tell apart the Nike trainers, basically nobody can tell the decent Chinese knockoffs from the real ones.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    edited 8:44AM
    Dura_Ace said:



    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    It's the other way around if anything with Chinese brands penetrating Western markets. The first Chinese car, Xiaomi SU7 Ultra, came into GranTurismo this week. They have done the R35 GTR/Hyundai Elantra N thing were they juice the simulated performance to make it feel like a rocket ship. Sony/Digital Polyphony don't just do that an random for any manufacturer and it shows how the high end Chinese brands are looking at other markets.
    Was announced last week, Sony tvs will now be TCL. They have also been really good at that, buying Western brands and turning them into conduit for Chinese companies. Most people have no idea that lots of brands they think as British / German from the recent past no longer are. Its the Sports Direct playbook but done more discreetly.

    I went to the Xiaomi car showroom when I was there, some really nice machines.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,419
    edited 8:46AM

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.
    This sums up Starmer’s visit to China pretty well. He came back with nothing having given away a lot.

    https://x.com/mrwinmarshall/status/2017207562207170821

    A big thing that struck me while in China, Western brands just don't seem to be seen as that cool. Starbucks is getting beat up by Luckin Coffee, iPhones / Earpods, nowhere near as common in the West, of the 3-4 phones everybody has, most are Chinese brands with 87 camera lens for the social media one, the mega screen one for gaming etc and the earbuds mostly commonly seen where these two metal balls that clipped to your ear and were bone conducting. And no sign of NorthFace coats etc that every kid in the UK at least wears. And of course you can easily buy the knock offs in China if it was cost that would stopping people buying this.

    But no instead, everybody is dressed head to toe in brands never seen outside in the West, drinking their Luckin (or bubble tea from Taiwanese brands), picking up snacks from FamilyMart or Lawsons (Japanese brands), driving their Zeekr, Avatr, Aion, Nio.

    Even Nike trainers, yes, definitely that is one item of clothing that is much more common, but still loads of weird ass trainer shoes never seen in the west normally rocked by kids who clearly think they are too cool for Nikes.

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.
    I remember s few years ago a PBer waxing lyrical over the Union Jack as the world’s coolest brand logo.

    Style wise, China seems to be following the Japanese template, reproducing western heritage brands and doing it better or at least more meticulously. I’ve tried some of the Chinese clothing labels and they’re pretty good. Like Tokyo there’s a thriving biker/rocker scene in Beijing, though nowhere near as huge (yet).
  • TresTres Posts: 3,446

    If you have tears, prepare to shed them now. If you have missed the martyrdom of London bus driver Mark Hehir, 62, I promise you his ordeal will make you choke with incoherent rage.

    As you read of his suffering at the hands of the system, it will crystallise everything that is wrong with the wet, woke, anal, legalistic pettifoggers who run Starmer’s Britain and who have long since abandoned all links with common sense.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-15513581/Sacking-hero-bus-driver-necklace-thief-Starmers-Britain.html

    Boris is not happy that have-a-go hero bus driver was sacked by Keir Starmer, or possibly by the private sector bus company that employed him. One of the two anyway.

    Here is the employment tribunal upholding the sacking:-
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6977768e3fd50ac304b79732/Mr_Mark_Hehir_v_METROLINE_LTD_6018181_2024_Reserved_Judgment.pdf

    'have-a-go hero' - he battered the guy until he was unconscious
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933
    Tres said:

    If you have tears, prepare to shed them now. If you have missed the martyrdom of London bus driver Mark Hehir, 62, I promise you his ordeal will make you choke with incoherent rage.

    As you read of his suffering at the hands of the system, it will crystallise everything that is wrong with the wet, woke, anal, legalistic pettifoggers who run Starmer’s Britain and who have long since abandoned all links with common sense.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-15513581/Sacking-hero-bus-driver-necklace-thief-Starmers-Britain.html

    Boris is not happy that have-a-go hero bus driver was sacked by Keir Starmer, or possibly by the private sector bus company that employed him. One of the two anyway.

    Here is the employment tribunal upholding the sacking:-
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6977768e3fd50ac304b79732/Mr_Mark_Hehir_v_METROLINE_LTD_6018181_2024_Reserved_Judgment.pdf

    'have-a-go hero' - he battered the guy until he was unconscious
    Actually he seems to have been sacked because he left the bus's engine running when he hared off after the miscreant. I've linked to the judgment. Punching robbers on the pavement is a matter for the police, not the bus company.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,933

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.
    This sums up Starmer’s visit to China pretty well. He came back with nothing having given away a lot.

    https://x.com/mrwinmarshall/status/2017207562207170821

    A big thing that struck me while in China, Western brands just don't seem to be seen as that cool. Starbucks is getting beat up by Luckin Coffee, iPhones / Earpods, nowhere near as common in the West, of the 3-4 phones everybody has, most are Chinese brands with 87 camera lens for the social media one, the mega screen one for gaming etc and the earbuds mostly commonly seen where these two metal balls that clipped to your ear and were bone conducting. And no sign of NorthFace coats etc that every kid in the UK at least wears. And of course you can easily buy the knock offs in China if it was cost that would stopping people buying this.

    But no instead, everybody is dressed head to toe in brands never seen outside in the West, drinking their Luckin (or bubble tea from Taiwanese brands), picking up snacks from FamilyMart or Lawsons (Japanese brands), driving their Zeekr, Avatr, Aion, Nio.

    Even Nike trainers, yes, definitely that is one item of clothing that is much more common, but still loads of weird ass trainer shoes never seen in the west normally rocked by kids who clearly think they are too cool for Nikes.

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.
    I remember s few years ago a PBer waxing lyrical over the Union Jack as the world’s coolest brand logo.

    Style wise, China seems to be following the Japanese template, reproducing western heritage brands and doing it better or at least more meticulously. I’ve tried some of the Chinese clothing labels and they’re pretty good. Like Tokyo there’s a thriving biker/rocker scene in Beijing, though nowhere near as huge (yet).
    And snooker, of course, and earlier many Olympic sports.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,613
    edited 8:52AM

    Scott_xP said:

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    Curious that Bicester Village is still rammed with Chinese tourists buying suitcases and stuffing them full of Western designer brands
    Well they weren't wearing them and also extra bizarre, you can buy it all in China, cheaper and the knock off stuff now is basically just as good. People trying to tell apart the Nike trainers, basically nobody can tell the decent Chinese knockoffs from the real ones.
    The best Chinese knockoffs used to be when the owner of the actual factory would have an unofficial night shift or Sunday shift, running the regular production line but sending the output through the side door to the local market. Of course stuff like Western clothes are cheap to produce, the added value comes from marketing and branding, $100 trainers cost $10 to make.

    The really scary fakes nowadays are the watches. $1,000 “Rolex”, indistinguishable from a real one unless you have them next to each other. They actually copied the entire movement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFasnEl2y20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,930
    Roger said:

    cancelled

    As ever Roger. As ever!
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,868
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I went to China and all I got was this lousy t-shirt deal on ugly ass gambling mechanic based fad toys,

    Labubu to open seven UK shops, after PM's China visit
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgm4kyw482eo

    Recent South Park episode on this was briliant.

    They already have a store of Oxford Street. I just don’t see this has anything to do with SKS’s visit
    Its all spin, because have so little to announce, 30 day visa free travel (like 50 other countries) being the highlight. The Cardiff one for instance was announced months ago. BBC journalist just repeating the press release.
    This sums up Starmer’s visit to China pretty well. He came back with nothing having given away a lot.

    https://x.com/mrwinmarshall/status/2017207562207170821

    Starmer’s visit to Peking has been a humiliation

    He secured no new FDI deal for UK

    He secured no new bilateral free trade deal

    He secured no new tariff deal other than halving whiskey tariffs from 10% to 5%

    He oversaw UK company AstraZeneca commit $15b investment INTO CHINA - money that could have been invested IN BRITAIN

    And the intelligence-sharing deal, a meaningless attempt to tackle Channel boat crossings, means Britain is a further intelligence risk for our 5 Eyes partners, most importantly the U.S. - who have increasing reason to cut intelligence ties with us

    And in return he got 30 day visa-free travel for Britons in China???? - for anyone who wants to visit the Communist (more accurately fascist) country???

    That’s the win?

    Remember this - the reason why they allowed the mega-embassy to be built in London, the reason why they killed the China spy cases of Berry and Cash was so as to not jeopardise deals with China.

    Starmer sacrificed British sovereignty and got nothing in return

    Labour’s economic plan for Britain was hedged on getting a China deal. Starmer did not get it

    Kowtow Keir’s foreign policy has been one act of treachery after another
    What do you expect when he has done the worst deal ever with the chagos islands . Starmer is really bad at deals , he seems to think everything must be a success straight away and is scared of even mild conflict and criticism from others including other countries . He really is giving away too much of Britain’s leverage and money due to his need to fit in and be seen as a reasonable guy
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,994

    NEW THREAD

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,663
    edited 9:02AM
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    Curious that Bicester Village is still rammed with Chinese tourists buying suitcases and stuffing them full of Western designer brands
    Well they weren't wearing them and also extra bizarre, you can buy it all in China, cheaper and the knock off stuff now is basically just as good. People trying to tell apart the Nike trainers, basically nobody can tell the decent Chinese knockoffs from the real ones.
    The best Chinese knockoffs used to be when the owner of the actual factory would have an unofficial night shift or Sunday shift, running the regular production line but sending the output through the side door to the local market. Of course stuff like Western clothes are cheap to produce, the added value comes from marketing and branding, $100 trainers cost $10 to make.

    The really scary fakes nowadays are the watches. $1,000 “Rolex”, indistinguishable from a real one unless you have them next to each other. They actually copied the entire movement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFasnEl2y20
    The weird thing in China (for a westeners) is how the legit and the knockoffs co-exist. Turkey is famous for ability to get good knock-offs and everybody knows you go to certain parts of say Istanbul, you ask the right people, they take you to a secret showroom etc. China, different levels of even the same buildings are for the real vs the knockoffs, its not in the shadows, its absolutely blantant. Guangzhou there are mega sized buildings that are exclusively knockoffs.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,369
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    Curious that Bicester Village is still rammed with Chinese tourists buying suitcases and stuffing them full of Western designer brands
    Well they weren't wearing them and also extra bizarre, you can buy it all in China, cheaper and the knock off stuff now is basically just as good. People trying to tell apart the Nike trainers, basically nobody can tell the decent Chinese knockoffs from the real ones.
    The best Chinese knockoffs used to be when the owner of the actual factory would have an unofficial night shift or Sunday shift, running the regular production line but sending the output through the side door to the local market. Of course stuff like Western clothes are cheap to produce, the added value comes from marketing and branding, $100 trainers cost $10 to make.

    The really scary fakes nowadays are the watches. $1,000 “Rolex”, indistinguishable from a real one unless you have them next to each other. They actually copied the entire movement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFasnEl2y20
    Managed to buy a Rolex for $1 in Tiananmen Square (quite) a few years ago. The contrast between China then and now is unbelievable.

    Meanwhile everyone in the West is trying to be an influencer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,613

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    Curious that Bicester Village is still rammed with Chinese tourists buying suitcases and stuffing them full of Western designer brands
    Well they weren't wearing them and also extra bizarre, you can buy it all in China, cheaper and the knock off stuff now is basically just as good. People trying to tell apart the Nike trainers, basically nobody can tell the decent Chinese knockoffs from the real ones.
    The best Chinese knockoffs used to be when the owner of the actual factory would have an unofficial night shift or Sunday shift, running the regular production line but sending the output through the side door to the local market. Of course stuff like Western clothes are cheap to produce, the added value comes from marketing and branding, $100 trainers cost $10 to make.

    The really scary fakes nowadays are the watches. $1,000 “Rolex”, indistinguishable from a real one unless you have them next to each other. They actually copied the entire movement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFasnEl2y20
    The weird thing in China (for a westeners) is how the legit and the knockoffs co-exist. Turkey is famous for ability to get good knock-offs and everybody knows you go to certain parts of say Istanbul, you ask the right people, they take you to a secret showroom etc. China, different levels of even the same buildings are for the real vs the knockoffs, its not in the shadows, its absolutely blantant. Guangzhou there are mega sized buildings that are exclusively knockoffs.
    Yes I remember that in Istanbul a couple of years ago, it was pretty blatant. The shops selling the fake clothes were doing so out in the open, often only a street or two away from the shops selling the real ones. There clearly wasn’t any enforcement of trademarks going on!

    Half of me does want to get one of those fake watches though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,221
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I missed earlier that Find Out Now have apologized for Fucking Around

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/2017266819317293114?s=20

    They have released the tables (https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/gorton-and-denton-by-election-poll/ ) in the form of a spreadsheet (https://cms.findoutnow.co.uk/app/uploads/2026/01/Gorton-and-Denton-survey.xlsx ) but they have not stated what the margin of error is, other than to say it is "larger than regular voting intenton (sic) poll".

    IIRC, BPC rules[1] say that a poll must contain a statement saying how big the margin of error is. However the rules are different for polls for individual constituencies and those rules say they must provide "...an indication (for parties with a realistic chance of winning) of either (i) each party’s estimated probability of winning each seat, or (ii) the estimated vote shares for each party in each constituency...", which they have done.

    However this is a poor show. I think they don't know what the MOE is for their G&D poll.

    Further reading
    [1] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/objects-and-rules/
    [2] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/faqs-about-polling/
    [3] https://www.mrs.org.uk/mis/MRS Summary of Inquiry Report FOR CIRCULATION FINAL.docx
    We know what the margin of error is because with a population/electorate size of 74,306 at the last election and a sample size of 143, the margin of error is 8.2%. Or am I missing something?

    https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/resources/calculators/margin-of-error-calculator
    That margin of error is the standard calculation assuming no other sources of error besides random sampling bias.

    We know there are other sources of error (e.g. non-response bias) Also, demographic weighting reduces the effective size of the sample. When you have a sample of ~2,000+ that's perhaps not so important, but it makes a much bigger difference with a sample of only 143.

    I've never seen a working out of the Maths for how demographic weighting reduces the effective sample size and it's a bit beyond me on my current amount of sleep to ken how the weighting works with weighting to demographic groups that cut across each other (e.g. age, sex, social class, etc).

    But if you have a sample of 100, with 60 male responses and 40 female responses and your target demographic split is 50:50, so you downweight your male responses and upweight the female responses, then the effective example size is less than 100.

    You can also think about this in terms of conducting two separate opinion polls - one of female voters with a sample of 40, and one of male voters with a sample of 60.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,221
    Andy_JS said:

    There's nothing inherently wrong with the Gorton and Denton poll, it's just that with an 8% margin of error it would have been better to publish it something like this:

    Ref: between 26% and 34%
    Lab: between 23% and 31%
    Grn: between 13% and 21%

    It gives a rough idea of how things stand, (which is better than nothing), without being anything like as good as a poll with a larger sample.

    If the margin of error is 8% then the confidence interval for the green share is 9% - 25%.

    This means the confidence intervals for the top three parties in the poll all overlap.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,440
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    At the ultra high end, yes you see people with Burberry etc, but its not cool to have Western branded stuff like it is say in Singapore.

    The idea that Western brands just need to get into China as massive market and they will sell massive amounts, I am not sure is true.

    Curious that Bicester Village is still rammed with Chinese tourists buying suitcases and stuffing them full of Western designer brands
    Well they weren't wearing them and also extra bizarre, you can buy it all in China, cheaper and the knock off stuff now is basically just as good. People trying to tell apart the Nike trainers, basically nobody can tell the decent Chinese knockoffs from the real ones.
    The best Chinese knockoffs used to be when the owner of the actual factory would have an unofficial night shift or Sunday shift, running the regular production line but sending the output through the side door to the local market. Of course stuff like Western clothes are cheap to produce, the added value comes from marketing and branding, $100 trainers cost $10 to make.

    The really scary fakes nowadays are the watches. $1,000 “Rolex”, indistinguishable from a real one unless you have them next to each other. They actually copied the entire movement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFasnEl2y20
    The weird thing in China (for a westeners) is how the legit and the knockoffs co-exist. Turkey is famous for ability to get good knock-offs and everybody knows you go to certain parts of say Istanbul, you ask the right people, they take you to a secret showroom etc. China, different levels of even the same buildings are for the real vs the knockoffs, its not in the shadows, its absolutely blantant. Guangzhou there are mega sized buildings that are exclusively knockoffs.
    Yes I remember that in Istanbul a couple of years ago, it was pretty blatant. The shops selling the fake clothes were doing so out in the open, often only a street or two away from the shops selling the real ones. There clearly wasn’t any enforcement of trademarks going on!

    Half of me does want to get one of those fake watches though.
    It used to be that the knockoffs looked similar and didn't work as well. Now that manufacturing technology has improved and got cheaper, it's much harder to tell the difference.

    (Certainly in mid-market and above. The cheaper knockoffs of cheap things, like the off-brand F-91W watches- are very visibly worse.)

    If all you have to distinguish you is a trade mark, how much of a moat is that, really?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,221

    Where do you go to buy actual silver and gold if you want it? And where do you store it in your house if you do? (let's assume you don't trust banks)

    I assume all the instinctive places are the wrong ones, and well know to burglars.

    The value of gold is such that quite large quantities of money - for regular normal people - can be stored in quite a small volume, so it's probably easier to hide than you think. I think 1kg of gold would be worth more than £100k for example, and a small tupperware container (e.g. ~500ml) would be large enough for about £1m.

    The traditional way has always been to bury it. The advantage is that anyone looking to steal it has to spend some time digging, which slows them down even if they know where to dig, and it stops you spending it frivolously on fast cars.

    If you plant a fruit tree, or similar, over where you bury the gold then you have a marker for where it's buried and you have a reason for digging a hole, so that it's not obvious you've dug a hole to bury your hoard.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,184

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I missed earlier that Find Out Now have apologized for Fucking Around

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/2017266819317293114?s=20

    They have released the tables (https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/gorton-and-denton-by-election-poll/ ) in the form of a spreadsheet (https://cms.findoutnow.co.uk/app/uploads/2026/01/Gorton-and-Denton-survey.xlsx ) but they have not stated what the margin of error is, other than to say it is "larger than regular voting intenton (sic) poll".

    IIRC, BPC rules[1] say that a poll must contain a statement saying how big the margin of error is. However the rules are different for polls for individual constituencies and those rules say they must provide "...an indication (for parties with a realistic chance of winning) of either (i) each party’s estimated probability of winning each seat, or (ii) the estimated vote shares for each party in each constituency...", which they have done.

    However this is a poor show. I think they don't know what the MOE is for their G&D poll.

    Further reading
    [1] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/objects-and-rules/
    [2] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/faqs-about-polling/
    [3] https://www.mrs.org.uk/mis/MRS Summary of Inquiry Report FOR CIRCULATION FINAL.docx
    We know what the margin of error is because with a population/electorate size of 74,306 at the last election and a sample size of 143, the margin of error is 8.2%. Or am I missing something?

    https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/resources/calculators/margin-of-error-calculator
    That margin of error is the standard calculation assuming no other sources of error besides random sampling bias.

    We know there are other sources of error (e.g. non-response bias) Also, demographic weighting reduces the effective size of the sample. When you have a sample of ~2,000+ that's perhaps not so important, but it makes a much bigger difference with a sample of only 143.

    I've never seen a working out of the Maths for how demographic weighting reduces the effective sample size and it's a bit beyond me on my current amount of sleep to ken how the weighting works with weighting to demographic groups that cut across each other (e.g. age, sex, social class, etc).

    But if you have a sample of 100, with 60 male responses and 40 female responses and your target demographic split is 50:50, so you downweight your male responses and upweight the female responses, then the effective example size is less than 100.

    You can also think about this in terms of conducting two separate opinion polls - one of female voters with a sample of 40, and one of male voters with a sample of 60.
    Weighting the sample can avoid systemic bias but can't do anything to reduce random error, surely? However perfectly weighted the sample, if you only have a handful of randomly picked people, you're subject to the mathematical probabilities that by chance you've picked too many supporters of one party and too few of another
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,221
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I missed earlier that Find Out Now have apologized for Fucking Around

    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/2017266819317293114?s=20

    They have released the tables (https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/gorton-and-denton-by-election-poll/ ) in the form of a spreadsheet (https://cms.findoutnow.co.uk/app/uploads/2026/01/Gorton-and-Denton-survey.xlsx ) but they have not stated what the margin of error is, other than to say it is "larger than regular voting intenton (sic) poll".

    IIRC, BPC rules[1] say that a poll must contain a statement saying how big the margin of error is. However the rules are different for polls for individual constituencies and those rules say they must provide "...an indication (for parties with a realistic chance of winning) of either (i) each party’s estimated probability of winning each seat, or (ii) the estimated vote shares for each party in each constituency...", which they have done.

    However this is a poor show. I think they don't know what the MOE is for their G&D poll.

    Further reading
    [1] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/objects-and-rules/
    [2] https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/faqs-about-polling/
    [3] https://www.mrs.org.uk/mis/MRS Summary of Inquiry Report FOR CIRCULATION FINAL.docx
    We know what the margin of error is because with a population/electorate size of 74,306 at the last election and a sample size of 143, the margin of error is 8.2%. Or am I missing something?

    https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/resources/calculators/margin-of-error-calculator
    That margin of error is the standard calculation assuming no other sources of error besides random sampling bias.

    We know there are other sources of error (e.g. non-response bias) Also, demographic weighting reduces the effective size of the sample. When you have a sample of ~2,000+ that's perhaps not so important, but it makes a much bigger difference with a sample of only 143.

    I've never seen a working out of the Maths for how demographic weighting reduces the effective sample size and it's a bit beyond me on my current amount of sleep to ken how the weighting works with weighting to demographic groups that cut across each other (e.g. age, sex, social class, etc).

    But if you have a sample of 100, with 60 male responses and 40 female responses and your target demographic split is 50:50, so you downweight your male responses and upweight the female responses, then the effective example size is less than 100.

    You can also think about this in terms of conducting two separate opinion polls - one of female voters with a sample of 40, and one of male voters with a sample of 60.
    Weighting the sample can avoid systemic bias but can't do anything to reduce random error, surely? However perfectly weighted the sample, if you only have a handful of randomly picked people, you're subject to the mathematical probabilities that by chance you've picked too many supporters of one party and too few of another
    Yes. My point is that the weighting effectively reduces the size of your sample, and so the effect of random sampling bias is increased.

    If you're weighing every response from albino scousers up by 50% then the effect of randomly sampling the one Tory albino scouser on your poll will be increased, and so the margin of error is also larger than according to classical theory.

    There are so many sources of error beyond the standard calculation of the margin of error that I'm continually amazed at how accurate opinions polls are. I guess the pollsters have been lucky that some of the errors operate in contrary directions and cancel out.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,916
    edited 1:37PM

    Will the UN survive?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr579mdv4m7o

    The United Nations is at risk of "imminent financial collapse" due to member states not paying their fees, the body's head has warned.

    António Guterres said the UN faced a financial crisis which was "deepening, threatening programme delivery", and that money could run out by July.

    If you want a context on that, consider that the USA has deliberately rendered the WTO disfuctional since 2018.

    WTO operates by consensus so they have simply refused to approve any new members to the Court of Arbitrators, unless the organisation cripples itself to their demands.

    NATO will be wrecked the same way.

    This is also why they will not leave the UN, but will deliberately stay in it to render it crippled whilst they build their dictatorship collective to the personal profit of Trump.

    So new organisations need to be built around the USA.
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