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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779
    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @washingtonpost.com‬

    Breaking news: Composer Philip Glass withdrew his highly anticipated Symphony No. 15 from its scheduled Kennedy Center performance, saying “the values of the Kennedy Center today are in direct conflict with the message of the Symphony.”

    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3mdg5suxn3i2n

    Bravo to Philip Glass! I've used his music more than once. A unique talent and good to know he's not a whore like the rest of us*!

    *Mark Knoffler being another one
    “ I've used his music more than once” did you have to get permission and pay royalties?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,851
    Looks like Reform are going for the racist vote and will try and win with a low vote share with the left vote split .

    Apparently 44% of the population is from an ethnic minority in Gorton and Denton .

    Labour need to get their shxt together and stop this self-flaggelation . Briefing that you’re effectively giving up on the seat is crazy,
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,944
    edited 6:29PM

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    That's plainly not true; for a start, there's lots about the environment in their last manifesto, which is on their website. You may not agree with their environmental policies, but they certainly have them. Of course, they also have policies on other areas. If they didn't, they'd rightly be accused of being a single-issue party.

    And no, they are not worse than Reform. Their policies are pretty unrealistic, but are at least grounded in reality, while Reform are complete fantasists as well as utter shits.
    They're also much less likely to abandon or compromise democracy on the basis of idolising American anti-democrats

    Reform are a big danger in that respect.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,809

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    That's plainly not true; for a start, there's lots about the environment in their last manifesto, which is on their website. You may not agree with their environmental policies, but they certainly have them. Of course, they also have policies on other areas. If they didn't, they'd rightly be accused of being a single-issue party.

    And no, they are not worse than Reform. Their policies are pretty unrealistic, but are at least grounded in reality, while Reform are complete fantasists as well as utter shits.
    For a long time the Greens were accused of being a one issue party to be honest.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,080

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,809

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico

    Goodwin is a politically interesting character within Reform. He's well to the right of Farage on cultural & migration issues - more like where I expect right-wing politics to go if Farage fails in office.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/2016164098702979503
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,080

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,510

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Israel = 20,000 sq. km. area
    22 Arab States = 13,000,000 sq. km. area
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,130
    nico67 said:

    Looks like Reform are going for the racist vote and will try and win with a low vote share with the left vote split .

    Apparently 44% of the population is from an ethnic minority in Gorton and Denton .

    Labour need to get their shxt together and stop this self-flaggelation . Briefing that you’re effectively giving up on the seat is crazy,

    It's a by-election. Times radio were saying earlier that it was a 2 horse race Reform vs Greens. With a good candidate I would think Greens might win, because really it's Reform vs Anti-Reform.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,299
    edited 6:34PM

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    That's plainly not true; for a start, there's lots about the environment in their last manifesto, which is on their website. You may not agree with their environmental policies, but they certainly have them. Of course, they also have policies on other areas. If they didn't, they'd rightly be accused of being a single-issue party.

    And no, they are not worse than Reform. Their policies are pretty unrealistic, but are at least grounded in reality, while Reform are complete fantasists as well as utter shits.
    It is most certainly true. They are just as dangerous and economic lunatics.

    They have a new leader since the last election and last manifesto. They speak little about the environment now.

    Yes, wealth tax now, open borders, free Palestine, cross dressing men are women are all policies ‘grounded in reality’ 🙄

    They are just fantasists too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico

    Goodwin is a politically interesting character within Reform. He's well to the right of Farage on cultural & migration issues - more like where I expect right-wing politics to go if Farage fails in office.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/2016164098702979503

    Bit of a loose cannon, so an interesting choice. Possibly needed more of a firebrand after letting in a bunch of establisment Tories slagging off their own government, which however deserved is an awkward sell.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,340

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Israel = 20,000 sq. km. area
    22 Arab States = 13,000,000 sq. km. area
    Thought the deal was that the Promised Land was circa 20,000 sq. km. Have they renegotiated the deal with Yehovah?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779
    imo the last fortnight has brought a shift on PB, Reform supporters and apologists getting much more instant pushback.

    Maybe it’s a glance across the pond and big realising the party 10%+ ahead in UK polls has merely photocopied the Trump small policy book of simpleton solutions.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,809
    Chuck Todd
    @chucktodd

    The NRA and other gun rights groups would be raising alarms and money off of this statement if said by any president not named Trump. What we’re learning is that these folks only care about Constitutional rights when it’s politically convenient

    https://x.com/chucktodd/status/2016207763605524556
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,080

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Israel = 20,000 sq. km. area
    22 Arab States = 13,000,000 sq. km. area
    So? I am opposed to any kind of religious state. I like to see laws based on reason, not religion.
  • Opinium another pollster to show a positive movement towards Labour.

    I think Labour will lead a poll this year and will stake my reputation on it.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,080
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    That's plainly not true; for a start, there's lots about the environment in their last manifesto, which is on their website. You may not agree with their environmental policies, but they certainly have them. Of course, they also have policies on other areas. If they didn't, they'd rightly be accused of being a single-issue party.

    And no, they are not worse than Reform. Their policies are pretty unrealistic, but are at least grounded in reality, while Reform are complete fantasists as well as utter shits.
    It is most certainly true. They are just as dangerous and economic lunatics.

    They have a new leader since the last election and last manifesto. They speak little about the environment now.

    Yes, wealth tax now, open borders, free Palestine, cross dressing men are women are all policies ‘grounded in reality’ 🙄

    They are just fantasists too.
    But at least they are not treasonous fantasists. And they aren't climate change deniers.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,355

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    FPT...

    Matthew Goodwin was once a really interesting academic.

    Anyway, he’s a good debater however he’s said some pretty bad things like black British people aren’t English.

    He doesn't think a white person with one foreign grandparent can be British, so Prince William isn't British to him, let alone the King.
    Surely not just Prince William and the King, but every British monarch back to ... would it be Elizabeth I, or am I missing someone more recent?
    No, you're quite correct (although Elizabeth was English not British).

    Although I think by that criteria only a very small number of English monarchs would meet that criteria - Elizabeth and her half-brother, her father, her great grandfather and his brother. After that I'm struggling.

    Scotland is I think actually still less qualified - Robert I, David II, Robert II, Robert III, James I and James II were a good run, but then the trend for foreign spouses kicked in again.
    It’s somewhere in the unwritten constitution that when the English Royal family gets too English, they are replaced with lower cost immigrants.
    Just remember, if it weren't for the English, you'd all be Spanish...

    https://youtu.be/1vh-wEXvdW8?si=FenXxenEc-5E2Wz4

    Or if you prefer the modern version...

    https://youtu.be/kL1zs4OKYAU?si=ITICUveku6EGPixW
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371
    edited 6:46PM

    Just put price of a brace of pints on Lab for Denton.

    Mad I know, but 7 seems value now Goodwin is the candidate.

    Goodwin is a 24 carat jerk. Only PB posters know this.

    Maybe he'll challenge Farage for the leadership/CEO position.
    Not now but if Farage loses not impossible he could on a ticket of linking up with Rupert Lowe, Tommy Robinson, Ben Habib and Advance and shifting harder to nationalism and deportations
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,299

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    That's plainly not true; for a start, there's lots about the environment in their last manifesto, which is on their website. You may not agree with their environmental policies, but they certainly have them. Of course, they also have policies on other areas. If they didn't, they'd rightly be accused of being a single-issue party.

    And no, they are not worse than Reform. Their policies are pretty unrealistic, but are at least grounded in reality, while Reform are complete fantasists as well as utter shits.
    It is most certainly true. They are just as dangerous and economic lunatics.

    They have a new leader since the last election and last manifesto. They speak little about the environment now.

    Yes, wealth tax now, open borders, free Palestine, cross dressing men are women are all policies ‘grounded in reality’ 🙄

    They are just fantasists too.
    But at least they are not treasonous fantasists. And they aren't climate change deniers.
    I find it so amusing to see people embracing patriotism simply as a stick to beat Reform with, many of these people, and the parties they support, would simply sell the nation and its sovereignty out to embrace the likes of the European Union.

    It’s like their ‘patriotism’ is skin deep and convenient.

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333
    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
    The Evangelicals aren’t even close to Crusaders. And I don’t know the word for the Jewish equivalent
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    But what is Islamism in people’s minds?

    What if in their minds people think Islamism is against modern liberal, secularized societies, on basis they risk moral decay attempting to exist without a spiritual foundation, so Islamism insists on a structured society guided by Islamism principles, comprising a Islamic state.
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Islamism against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Islamism values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Islamism principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Islamist.
    * The Community of Islamism: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Islamism acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    If in your mind all this was Islamism, would you not say you are opposed to that?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,651

    An interesting take by Alex Massie on Suella and Reform - I think he's right, and the comparison with Corbyn is instructive:

    "... I think adding discredited and unpopular ex-Tory politicians to Reform contradicts Reform’s key message. That message is: The Establishment Parties Have Failed And We Are Different.

    "The failure is plausible but it’s hard to argue for Reform’s difference when it becomes a kind of loopy facsimile of past Tory cabinets. This seems a risky ploy for Farage. Liz Truss may not be a member of Reform but we all know that if she votes at the next general election she’s more likely to vote Reform than Conservative.

    "I suspect that far from proving Reform is ready for government, this sort of thing confirms they are not. The more interesting question, however, is whether or not the people voting Reform actually want Farage to become Prime Minister. I am not sure they do. Or, to put it another way, it is easier to vote Reform if you think this is really just a protest vote than it is if you think Reform might actually win. If so, the closer Farage comes to Downing Street, the harder it will be for him to actually get there.

    "There is some precedent for this. In 2017, a vote for Jeremy Corbyn was seen as an essentially harmless act of protest. In 2019, a vote for Jeremy Corbyn carried the real risk he might somehow end up in Downing Street. This is the single simplest and most compelling explanation for why Labour did very well in 2017 and very badly in 2019.

    "Reform isn’t quite at that stage yet. But it may get there eventually. The sweet spot for Farage is for him to always be on the brink of being a credible Prime Minister without every actually quite being taken seriously as such by the electorate."

    I wonder whether those who are hoping against hope that the electorate will vote tactically to keep out Reform ever consider what is likely to happen if our politics just keeps on brushing aside the concerns of so many?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
    The Evangelicals aren’t even close to Crusaders. And I don’t know the word for the Jewish equivalent
    Jews don't believe in seeking converts as they are an ethnic group as much as a religion and any conversion has to be strictly approved by a Jewish court
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,080

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
    The Evangelicals aren’t even close to Crusaders. And I don’t know the word for the Jewish equivalent
    "Settlers"?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,355

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
    The Evangelicals aren’t even close to Crusaders. And I don’t know the word for the Jewish equivalent
    'Maccabees' (who inspired the name of the somewhat controversial football team) would probably be the closest.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,651
    nico67 said:

    Looks like Reform are going for the racist vote and will try and win with a low vote share with the left vote split .

    Apparently 44% of the population is from an ethnic minority in Gorton and Denton .

    Labour need to get their shxt together and stop this self-flaggelation . Briefing that you’re effectively giving up on the seat is crazy,

    Labour are steady-as-you-go with the misogynist vote.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779
    edited 6:52PM

    Opinium another pollster to show a positive movement towards Labour.

    I think Labour will lead a poll this year and will stake my reputation on it.

    You’d be wrong.

    It’s mid term. The economy isn’t going amazeballs, and people still hurting from massive cost of living crisis.

    Labour could still get a majority at the end of this term though. If economy comes good, and people feel things have got better.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,809
    Joe Biden
    @JoeBiden

    What has unfolded in Minneapolis this past month betrays our most basic values as Americans. We are not a nation that guns down our citizens in the street. We are not a nation that allows our citizens to be brutalized for exercising their constitutional rights. We are not a nation that tramples the 4th Amendment and tolerates our neighbors being terrorized.

    ...


    No single person can destroy what America stands for and believes in, not even a President, if we — all of America — stand up and speak out.


    https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/2016177515845283911
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371
    Taz said:

    😳😳😳😳

    New - Trump approval (Hispanic voters)

    🟢 Approve 53% (+8)
    🟤 Disapprove 45%

    Last month - 🟤 Disapprove +20 (28% shift ⏩ 🟢)

    Rasmussen #B - RV - 1/22

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/2016141630936387769?s=61

    Lots of anti Maduro Venezuelan immigrants in that sample?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371
    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,355

    Joe Biden
    @JoeBiden

    What has unfolded in Minneapolis this past month betrays our most basic values as Americans. We are not a nation that guns down our citizens in the street. We are not a nation that allows our citizens to be brutalized for exercising their constitutional rights. We are not a nation that tramples the 4th Amendment and tolerates our neighbors being terrorized.

    ...


    No single person can destroy what America stands for and believes in, not even a President, if we — all of America — stand up and speak out.


    https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/2016177515845283911

    Blimey, was Leon right for once and he really does have total mental disintegration?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
    The Evangelicals aren’t even close to Crusaders. And I don’t know the word for the Jewish equivalent
    "Settlers"?
    They’re creating a buffer zone

    October 7 proved that they need a bigger one

    They actually tried to give Gaza to the Gazans twenty years ago
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,852
    AnneJGP said:

    An interesting take by Alex Massie on Suella and Reform - I think he's right, and the comparison with Corbyn is instructive:

    "... I think adding discredited and unpopular ex-Tory politicians to Reform contradicts Reform’s key message. That message is: The Establishment Parties Have Failed And We Are Different.

    "The failure is plausible but it’s hard to argue for Reform’s difference when it becomes a kind of loopy facsimile of past Tory cabinets. This seems a risky ploy for Farage. Liz Truss may not be a member of Reform but we all know that if she votes at the next general election she’s more likely to vote Reform than Conservative.

    "I suspect that far from proving Reform is ready for government, this sort of thing confirms they are not. The more interesting question, however, is whether or not the people voting Reform actually want Farage to become Prime Minister. I am not sure they do. Or, to put it another way, it is easier to vote Reform if you think this is really just a protest vote than it is if you think Reform might actually win. If so, the closer Farage comes to Downing Street, the harder it will be for him to actually get there.

    "There is some precedent for this. In 2017, a vote for Jeremy Corbyn was seen as an essentially harmless act of protest. In 2019, a vote for Jeremy Corbyn carried the real risk he might somehow end up in Downing Street. This is the single simplest and most compelling explanation for why Labour did very well in 2017 and very badly in 2019.

    "Reform isn’t quite at that stage yet. But it may get there eventually. The sweet spot for Farage is for him to always be on the brink of being a credible Prime Minister without every actually quite being taken seriously as such by the electorate."

    I wonder whether those who are hoping against hope that the electorate will vote tactically to keep out Reform ever consider what is likely to happen if our politics just keeps on brushing aside the concerns of so many?
    I suspect you have a valid point.

    The trade off is Reform return people ahead of one in the GP queue from whence they came in exchange for having to pay an insurance premium for one's own place in the queue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,355
    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    I would have thought that would be the surest way of guaranteeing a Labour win.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,251
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    😳😳😳😳

    New - Trump approval (Hispanic voters)

    🟢 Approve 53% (+8)
    🟤 Disapprove 45%

    Last month - 🟤 Disapprove +20 (28% shift ⏩ 🟢)

    Rasmussen #B - RV - 1/22

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/2016141630936387769?s=61

    Lots of anti Maduro Venezuelan immigrants in that sample?
    It's Rasmussen so the sample is likely to have been taken in the office canteen.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,437

    Opinium another pollster to show a positive movement towards Labour.

    I think Labour will lead a poll this year and will stake my reputation on it.

    Minimum bet £1 here
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,251

    Opinium another pollster to show a positive movement towards Labour.

    I think Labour will lead a poll this year and will stake my reputation on it.

    You’d be wrong.

    It’s mid term. The economy isn’t going amazeballs, and people still hurting from massive cost of living crisis.

    Labour could still get a majority at the end of this term though. If economy comes good, and people feel things have got better.
    If Labour gets a majority at the end of this term it will be for much the same reason as it did last term, i.e., the alternatives being too awful to contemplate.

    I would not however rule the possibility out.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779
    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371
    Spat between Goodwin and Labour already on him saying 'he was unfortunate enough to be in Manchester' when Tory conference was on
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status

    https://x.com/UKLabour/status/2016186186289524758?s=202016200940487836008?s=20
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    No one cares about the environment anymore.

    That's so 2019.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333
    I think that it’s quite obvious why so many are not inclined to oppose the evil Islamist regime in Iran: they’re Israel’s greatest enemy. So they can’t be all bad
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779
    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    Loopy.

    In fact, throw him out the party?

    Aiding and abetting other parties is exactly why people get thrown out parties?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,809
    James Walker
    @James_L_Walker

    *Not so fun fact. Matt Goodwin was my dissertation supervisor.

    Only briefly mind. I swapped after he said that my idea - a study and survey on the politics of the homeless (less than 1% vote) - was of "no academic interest".

    I got a 1st 🎓

    https://x.com/James_L_Walker/status/2016184708543951355
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,299

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    Fucking hell

    It’s like a PowerPoint presentation.

    Thank god it doesn’t say in the bottom corner 1/75
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,636
    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    Is he still a member of the Conservatives? If so, that seems dangerously close to getting kicked out if he's so open about his support for Reform.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    MattW said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    POI: I first noticed Goodwin in about 2011 when he was an academic characterising UKIP (the old, Farage-led moderate UKIP) as 'far-right'

    (Our study) found that a significant portion of the Ukip base closely resembled that of the BNP: while less intense, they comprise a poorer, more working-class and more deeply disconnected wing within the party that is driven not simply by Euroscepticism but also their profound concern about immigration and dissatisfaction with the three main parties. Ukip denies these associations with the radical right, but both parties are pitching a far-right formula and rallying a radical right base.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/12/ukip-far-right-bnp
    Owen Jones, Matthew Godwin, JK Rowling, and Carol Voderman (there are many others) are good examples of how social media and the polarisation it drives can push someone from a nuanced position to a dogmatic one, simply on the behaviours it incentives and rewards.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779

    Opinium another pollster to show a positive movement towards Labour.

    I think Labour will lead a poll this year and will stake my reputation on it.

    You’d be wrong.

    It’s mid term. The economy isn’t going amazeballs, and people still hurting from massive cost of living crisis.

    Labour could still get a majority at the end of this term though. If economy comes good, and people feel things have got better.
    If Labour gets a majority at the end of this term it will be for much the same reason as it did last term, i.e., the alternatives being too awful to contemplate.

    I would not however rule the possibility out.
    Any sort of “comeback kid” stuff is on the economy most of all now, nothing else like “I think the others are worse” as “I think the other options are worse” will be based on thinking about the economy and cost of living.

    The interesting one from betting angle could be more Labour votes, more % PV, but awful lot less seats, losing lots of close ones all over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,816
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Konstantin Kisin — Britain is on the brink, Reform is the only party that gets it

    The podcast star talks about Britain’s decline, the dangers of mass migration, and why Farage may have the answers"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/01/27/the-daily-t-britain-konstantin-kisin-reform-farage/

    Christ, another nutcase Podcaster.

    From wiki:

    In February 2025, Kisin interviewed Fraser Nelson on his Triggernometry podcast. During the interview, Nelson discussed Rishi Sunak and said "He is absolutely English – he was born and bred here". Kisin responded by saying "He’s a brown Hindu; how is he English?"[44]
    Kisin is described in his wiki entry as British. He was born in Moscow to Russian parents. Not sure he is in the best position to pass judgement on who is and is not English.
    I am as British as Queen Victoria, you cannot get more British than that.
    I can't imagine she'd have worn shoes like that...
    Who knows what went on under the crinoline ?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,681

    Opinium another pollster to show a positive movement towards Labour.

    I think Labour will lead a poll this year and will stake my reputation on it.

    You’d be wrong.

    It’s mid term. The economy isn’t going amazeballs, and people still hurting from massive cost of living crisis.

    Labour could still get a majority at the end of this term though. If economy comes good, and people feel things have got better.
    If Labour gets a majority at the end of this term it will be for much the same reason as it did last term, i.e., the alternatives being too awful to contemplate.

    I would not however rule the possibility out.
    I doubt that Labour will get an overall majority - too many other parties will be sharing the cake.

    But it think it may well have the most seats, particularly if it changes leader, is more courageous and has a clearer narrative.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,299

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    No one cares about the environment anymore.

    That's so 2019.
    Apart from Ed Miliband.

    Energy for AI seems to be the order of the day. Interesting to see at Davos people people pivoting away from ‘saving the planet’ to the need for energy.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333
    edited 7:11PM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    No one cares about the environment anymore.

    That's so 2019.
    Apart from Ed Miliband.

    Energy for AI seems to be the order of the day. Interesting to see at Davos people people pivoting away from ‘saving the planet’ to the need for energy.
    Mr Fucking Ridiculously Expensive Electricity (FREE) Energy Man?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,816
    isam said:

    Opinium another pollster to show a positive movement towards Labour.

    I think Labour will lead a poll this year and will stake my reputation on it.

    Minimum bet £1 here
    Surely @BatteryCorrectHorse 's reputation is worth more than that ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    It's possible he's teetering, but I think the way he's wired and who he is that he's Conservative through and through - wears it like a skin - and has called for these deals before.

    So it's probably just deal-making.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    It's possible he's teetering, but I think the way he's wired and who he is that he's Conservative through and through - wears it like a skin - and has called for these deals before.

    So it's probably just deal-making.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,510
    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    Is he still a member of the Conservatives? If so, that seems dangerously close to getting kicked out if he's so open about his support for Reform.
    His slot is at 8pm on GB News.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,651
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    By-election kicking off with Goodwin's views on race already flagged up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/27/matthew-goodwin-gorton-and-denton-reform-uk-minorities

    Question is will it be the referendum that Goodwin wants it to be, on Starmer - or a referendum on Reform and these sort of views.

    Point is you can vote against both with the Greens.

    This by-election could be quite incendiary and I think the higher the stakes, the more likely we are to see a Caerphilly-type result, with the Greens the winners aided by a huge tactical vote.

    The Greens, in their own way, are just a bad (if not worse) than Reform.

    Their policy platform of wealth tax now, free Gaza, transvestives are women, open borders, just nuts and nothing at all on the environment.
    No one cares about the environment anymore.

    That's so 2019.
    Apart from Ed Miliband.

    Energy for AI seems to be the order of the day. Interesting to see at Davos people people pivoting away from ‘saving the planet’ to the need for energy.
    An AI tax on all flights!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,681
    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    Is he still a member of the Conservatives? If so, that seems dangerously close to getting kicked out if he's so open about his support for Reform.
    Tories are at 500/1 on Betfair to win Gordon and Denton :)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,827
    Matt Goodwin is not a bad condidate for Reform, but he is *very* Southern.

    He'll be a good parliamentarian I think.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    kle4 said:


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico

    Goodwin is a politically interesting character within Reform. He's well to the right of Farage on cultural & migration issues - more like where I expect right-wing politics to go if Farage fails in office.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/2016164098702979503

    Bit of a loose cannon, so an interesting choice. Possibly needed more of a firebrand after letting in a bunch of establisment Tories slagging off their own government, which however deserved is an awkward sell.
    Andrew Lilico is bonkers, and his ravings inconsistent.

    I think Matt Goodwin has gone off the deep-end but I don't believe he's some sort of National Front guy, regardless of how poorly worded some of his tweets have been.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,103
    Good evening

    This is a very sensible statement by Ruth Davidson

    "This is about people that feel that the Conservative party left them but also feel like they don't have a home in Labour or the Liberal Democrats."

    Reform with Farage and his discredited mob of ex conservatives imitating Trump's MAGA Act leaves the conservative party at a real crossroads

    Either merge with Reform, or far better politically write Reform and Farage off and chart a new course away from the hate and division of Reform/Trump policies and seek to have real discussions with the Davidson - Street group, because that group has talent and unlike the defecting conservatives enormous experience in government

    I want a conservative party that talks to a wide section of society and concentrates on 2 key issues, the economy and defence

    The economy, and how best to help the young and ordinary people has to be front and centre of thinking with less emphasis on the pensioners vote and certainly, whilst stopping the boats, make the case for sensible legal migration that the county needs

    I know this is heresy but rejoing the single market could be a long term objective

    Defence needs immediate funding so reinstate the 2 child cap, means test WFA and end the triple lock, no payments for WASPI women, and raise tax if necessary but increase the basic tax allowance

    I know the likes of @HYUFD will have a rebuttal, but my response is those on the far right of the party who only seem to want to bash immigrants and even have no immigration at all, and now question what is being British should be confined to the dustbin of our history

    I hope the Greens win Gorton, but I expect Reform will but I am convinced they are near or at their highest point and will haemorrhage support over the next 3 years as they are found out for what they are
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,510

    I think that it’s quite obvious why so many are not inclined to oppose the evil Islamist regime in Iran: they’re Israel’s greatest enemy. So they can’t be all bad

    Is true the Mullahs still want Salman Rushdie dead?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,146

    Matt Goodwin is not a bad condidate for Reform, but he is *very* Southern.

    He'll be a good parliamentarian I think.

    He went to the University of Salford.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,827

    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    It's possible he's teetering, but I think the way he's wired and who he is that he's Conservative through and through - wears it like a skin - and has called for these deals before.

    So it's probably just deal-making.
    He won’t ever leave the Tories. Advising them not to bother too much with this by-election is what any decent right-winger would do.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333

    I think that it’s quite obvious why so many are not inclined to oppose the evil Islamist regime in Iran: they’re Israel’s greatest enemy. So they can’t be all bad

    Is true the Mullahs still want Salman Rushdie dead?
    All of the Islamists want that
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759

    Chuck Todd
    @chucktodd

    The NRA and other gun rights groups would be raising alarms and money off of this statement if said by any president not named Trump. What we’re learning is that these folks only care about Constitutional rights when it’s politically convenient

    https://x.com/chucktodd/status/2016207763605524556

    Trump above all else, how he managed to convince 50% of Americans of that is fascinating.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    Taz said:

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    Fucking hell

    It’s like a PowerPoint presentation.

    Thank god it doesn’t say in the bottom corner 1/75
    That might be a valid point if we still lived in the 16th Century where you could be burned at the stake for heresy, and the Church still had its own land and law.

    Thankfully, that is no longer the case.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,779
    edited 7:22PM
    Taz said:

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    Fucking hell

    It’s like a PowerPoint presentation.

    Thank god it doesn’t say in the bottom corner 1/75
    You are right for once Taz! ☺️

    It’s my Sunday school lessons.

    Based on TS Elliot’s Idea of a Christian Society. Exploring to what extent you have a religious society, or a liberal one.

    It’s there in the Trump Administration too isn’t it, and the right wing goons marching now on British Streets, very much the same as Iran, or those fighting for Islamic State.

    And the reason why it’s a good lesson, and good to discuss, is Trump, Farage, Iran Supreme Leader and those goons on British Streets have their use of Religion. Which many in the Christian Church leadership call stealing religion for their own advantage and nefarious ends, don’t they?

    So what is the motivation? Do they have fear of liberal secular society, a deep down belief secular, liberal, being neutral has gone too far, and deep down belief that “their” civilisation needs to reclaim its religious foundations to avoid "suicide".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    Taz said:

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    Fucking hell

    It’s like a PowerPoint presentation.

    Thank god it doesn’t say in the bottom corner 1/75
    That might be a valid point if we still lived in the 16th Century where you could be burned at the stake for heresy, and the Church still had its own land and law.

    Thankfully, that is no longer the case.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,849

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,827

    Good evening

    This is a very sensible statement by Ruth Davidson

    "This is about people that feel that the Conservative party left them but also feel like they don't have a home in Labour or the Liberal Democrats."

    Reform with Farage and his discredited mob of ex conservatives imitating Trump's MAGA Act leaves the conservative party at a real crossroads

    Either merge with Reform, or far better politically write Reform and Farage off and chart a new course away from the hate and division of Reform/Trump policies and seek to have real discussions with the Davidson - Street group, because that group has talent and unlike the defecting conservatives enormous experience in government

    I want a conservative party that talks to a wide section of society and concentrates on 2 key issues, the economy and defence

    The economy, and how best to help the young and ordinary people has to be front and centre of thinking with less emphasis on the pensioners vote and certainly, whilst stopping the boats, make the case for sensible legal migration that the county needs

    I know this is heresy but rejoing the single market could be a long term objective

    Defence needs immediate funding so reinstate the 2 child cap, means test WFA and end the triple lock, no payments for WASPI women, and raise tax if necessary but increase the basic tax allowance

    I know the likes of @HYUFD will have a rebuttal, but my response is those on the far right of the party who only seem to want to bash immigrants and even have no immigration at all, and now question what is being British should be confined to the dustbin of our history

    I hope the Greens win Gorton, but I expect Reform will but I am convinced they are near or at their highest point and will haemorrhage support over the next 3 years as they are found out for what they are

    Anyone with a self-conscious lack of full stops like that is clearly an utter tossbag.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371
    edited 7:24PM

    Good evening

    This is a very sensible statement by Ruth Davidson

    "This is about people that feel that the Conservative party left them but also feel like they don't have a home in Labour or the Liberal Democrats."

    Reform with Farage and his discredited mob of ex conservatives imitating Trump's MAGA Act leaves the conservative party at a real crossroads

    Either merge with Reform, or far better politically write Reform and Farage off and chart a new course away from the hate and division of Reform/Trump policies and seek to have real discussions with the Davidson - Street group, because that group has talent and unlike the defecting conservatives enormous experience in government

    I want a conservative party that talks to a wide section of society and concentrates on 2 key issues, the economy and defence

    The economy, and how best to help the young and ordinary people has to be front and centre of thinking with less emphasis on the pensioners vote and certainly, whilst stopping the boats, make the case for sensible legal migration that the county needs

    I know this is heresy but rejoing the single market could be a long term objective

    Defence needs immediate funding so reinstate the 2 child cap, means test WFA and end the triple lock, no payments for WASPI women, and raise tax if necessary but increase the basic tax allowance

    I know the likes of @HYUFD will have a rebuttal, but my response is those on the far right of the party who only seem to want to bash immigrants and even have no immigration at all, and now question what is being British should be confined to the dustbin of our history

    I hope the Greens win Gorton, but I expect Reform will but I am convinced they are near or at their highest point and will haemorrhage support over the next 3 years as they are found out for what they are

    Davidson could do with some current Tory MPs in that group though, otherwise it just looks like mainly a Ken Clarke and Heseltine and Cameron tribute act.

    Davidson did endorse Cleverly though in 2024, so if Kemi is removed after poor May local and devolved elections and replaced by Sir James I suspect many in the ProsperUK group of centrist Tories will be rather more happy in the Tories than they are now.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ruth-davidson-has-backed-james-cleverly-to-be-the-next-conservative-leader_uk_66b87027e4b07f6751732ebe
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759

    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    It's possible he's teetering, but I think the way he's wired and who he is that he's Conservative through and through - wears it like a skin - and has called for these deals before.

    So it's probably just deal-making.
    Probably, though I don't see any good choices for the Tories. They'll be humiliated if/when they stand, but ceding the ground entirely is a big deal for one of the traditional big two, once they officially accept they have no shot and, implicitly or otherwise, their voters should back Reform to beat Labour, well, they're halfway to a pact/merger already.

    Which might not be so bad for them, except that Reform expect to be the leader in any such scenario, notwithstanding the Tories have 10x the seats at the moment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759
    edited 7:21PM

    James Walker
    @James_L_Walker

    *Not so fun fact. Matt Goodwin was my dissertation supervisor.

    Only briefly mind. I swapped after he said that my idea - a study and survey on the politics of the homeless (less than 1% vote) - was of "no academic interest".

    I got a 1st 🎓

    https://x.com/James_L_Walker/status/2016184708543951355

    I'm no expert, but if we restricted dissertations to only things of academic interest that sounds like it would lead to a severe reduction.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,333

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    I was raised as a Christian. I went full on atheist at about eleven years old. I never got criticised - even by Christians - for that. I can be godless and still be accepted. I respect that
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,473

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    Some quite interesting people - Tom Holland is a very obvious example - are coming around to thinking that how Moon Rabbit describes things is actually in some part true, that the Christian foundations of western society go much deeper than people realise in day to day life, that there are dangers in not recognising the significance of the Christendom inheritance and so on. I share that broad understanding FWIW, but I am a Christian of very liberal views.

    What is also the case is that 'state neutrality' is not an option. States decide things and states don't decide by lottery or at random. Neutrality doesn't exist. So the question of what Leviathan stands for and why is always in issue.

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,239
    kle4 said:

    James Walker
    @James_L_Walker

    *Not so fun fact. Matt Goodwin was my dissertation supervisor.

    Only briefly mind. I swapped after he said that my idea - a study and survey on the politics of the homeless (less than 1% vote) - was of "no academic interest".

    I got a 1st 🎓

    https://x.com/James_L_Walker/status/2016184708543951355

    I'm no expert, but if we restricted dissertations to only things of academic interest that sounds like it would lead to a severe reduction.
    Plus surely the whole idea of dissertations is to do something new? The most interesting new ideas are those that are NOT of existing academic interest.

    Indeed that is how science or knowledge in general can often progress. Develop something new, not currently of interest, and people can become interested in it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,827

    Good evening

    This is a very sensible statement by Ruth Davidson

    "This is about people that feel that the Conservative party left them but also feel like they don't have a home in Labour or the Liberal Democrats."

    Reform with Farage and his discredited mob of ex conservatives imitating Trump's MAGA Act leaves the conservative party at a real crossroads

    Either merge with Reform, or far better politically write Reform and Farage off and chart a new course away from the hate and division of Reform/Trump policies and seek to have real discussions with the Davidson - Street group, because that group has talent and unlike the defecting conservatives enormous experience in government

    I want a conservative party that talks to a wide section of society and concentrates on 2 key issues, the economy and defence

    The economy, and how best to help the young and ordinary people has to be front and centre of thinking with less emphasis on the pensioners vote and certainly, whilst stopping the boats, make the case for sensible legal migration that the county needs

    I know this is heresy but rejoing the single market could be a long term objective

    Defence needs immediate funding so reinstate the 2 child cap, means test WFA and end the triple lock, no payments for WASPI women, and raise tax if necessary but increase the basic tax allowance

    I know the likes of @HYUFD will have a rebuttal, but my response is those on the far right of the party who only seem to want to bash immigrants and even have no immigration at all, and now question what is being British should be confined to the dustbin of our history

    I hope the Greens win Gorton, but I expect Reform will but I am convinced they are near or at their highest point and will haemorrhage support over the next 3 years as they are found out for what they are

    Anyone with a self-conscious lack of full stops like that is clearly an utter tossbag.
    Sorry I thought the whole statement was by Ruth Davidson. BigG may use full stops as he pleases.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,103

    Good evening

    This is a very sensible statement by Ruth Davidson

    "This is about people that feel that the Conservative party left them but also feel like they don't have a home in Labour or the Liberal Democrats."

    Reform with Farage and his discredited mob of ex conservatives imitating Trump's MAGA Act leaves the conservative party at a real crossroads

    Either merge with Reform, or far better politically write Reform and Farage off and chart a new course away from the hate and division of Reform/Trump policies and seek to have real discussions with the Davidson - Street group, because that group has talent and unlike the defecting conservatives enormous experience in government

    I want a conservative party that talks to a wide section of society and concentrates on 2 key issues, the economy and defence

    The economy, and how best to help the young and ordinary people has to be front and centre of thinking with less emphasis on the pensioners vote and certainly, whilst stopping the boats, make the case for sensible legal migration that the county needs

    I know this is heresy but rejoing the single market could be a long term objective

    Defence needs immediate funding so reinstate the 2 child cap, means test WFA and end the triple lock, no payments for WASPI women, and raise tax if necessary but increase the basic tax allowance

    I know the likes of @HYUFD will have a rebuttal, but my response is those on the far right of the party who only seem to want to bash immigrants and even have no immigration at all, and now question what is being British should be confined to the dustbin of our history

    I hope the Greens win Gorton, but I expect Reform will but I am convinced they are near or at their highest point and will haemorrhage support over the next 3 years as they are found out for what they are

    Anyone with a self-conscious lack of full stops like that is clearly an utter tossbag.
    Truth hurts !!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759
    edited 7:32PM
    algarkirk said:

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    Some quite interesting people - Tom Holland is a very obvious example - are coming around to thinking that how Moon Rabbit describes things is actually in some part true, that the Christian foundations of western society go much deeper than people realise in day to day life, that there are dangers in not recognising the significance of the Christendom inheritance and so on. I share that broad understanding FWIW, but I am a Christian of very liberal views.

    What is also the case is that 'state neutrality' is not an option. States decide things and states don't decide by lottery or at random. Neutrality doesn't exist. So the question of what Leviathan stands for and why is always in issue.

    I think it is probably true that the Christian foundations go deeper than people realise, they underestimate the impact of such a long period of intense Christian culture and assume certain things are universal when they are not or, to the extent that certain ideas and norms do crop up all over the world and other cultures, they may not be in quite the same forms.

    That being said when reading Holland's Dominion I did feel he was overegging the point a bit much all the same, it was a bit weakly argued in places, and even accepting the foundations doesn't require the kind of overt push that some who raise the point would prefer.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,103
    HYUFD said:

    Good evening

    This is a very sensible statement by Ruth Davidson

    "This is about people that feel that the Conservative party left them but also feel like they don't have a home in Labour or the Liberal Democrats."

    Reform with Farage and his discredited mob of ex conservatives imitating Trump's MAGA Act leaves the conservative party at a real crossroads

    Either merge with Reform, or far better politically write Reform and Farage off and chart a new course away from the hate and division of Reform/Trump policies and seek to have real discussions with the Davidson - Street group, because that group has talent and unlike the defecting conservatives enormous experience in government

    I want a conservative party that talks to a wide section of society and concentrates on 2 key issues, the economy and defence

    The economy, and how best to help the young and ordinary people has to be front and centre of thinking with less emphasis on the pensioners vote and certainly, whilst stopping the boats, make the case for sensible legal migration that the county needs

    I know this is heresy but rejoing the single market could be a long term objective

    Defence needs immediate funding so reinstate the 2 child cap, means test WFA and end the triple lock, no payments for WASPI women, and raise tax if necessary but increase the basic tax allowance

    I know the likes of @HYUFD will have a rebuttal, but my response is those on the far right of the party who only seem to want to bash immigrants and even have no immigration at all, and now question what is being British should be confined to the dustbin of our history

    I hope the Greens win Gorton, but I expect Reform will but I am convinced they are near or at their highest point and will haemorrhage support over the next 3 years as they are found out for what they are

    Davidson could do with some current Tory MPs in that group though, otherwise it just looks like mainly a Ken Clarke and Heseltine and Cameron tribute act.

    Davidson did endorse Cleverly though in 2024, so if Kemi is removed after poor May local and devolved elections and replaced by Sir James I suspect many in the ProsperUK group of centrist Tories will be rather more happy in the Tories than they are now.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ruth-davidson-has-backed-james-cleverly-to-be-the-next-conservative-leader_uk_66b87027e4b07f6751732ebe
    Thanks for that sensible response @HYUFD
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,405

    kle4 said:

    James Walker
    @James_L_Walker

    *Not so fun fact. Matt Goodwin was my dissertation supervisor.

    Only briefly mind. I swapped after he said that my idea - a study and survey on the politics of the homeless (less than 1% vote) - was of "no academic interest".

    I got a 1st 🎓

    https://x.com/James_L_Walker/status/2016184708543951355

    I'm no expert, but if we restricted dissertations to only things of academic interest that sounds like it would lead to a severe reduction.
    Plus surely the whole idea of dissertations is to do something new? The most interesting new ideas are those that are NOT of existing academic interest.

    Indeed that is how science or knowledge in general can often progress. Develop something new, not currently of interest, and people can become interested in it.
    The challenge with undergrad and early postgrad dissertations is that... Yes, you want something new, but it's also got to be something that's pretty much certain to work, because otherwise it causes problems for assessment.

    But Goodwin's comments don't sound like good dissertation supervision to me. As with Nigel himself, I'm not sure he has a great record of working with people, which is partly why he's ended up where he has.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,239

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
    Well said. I quite comfortably oppose all organised religions.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,473

    Taz said:

    A question to Blanche, and everyone else - switching word Islam to Christian - would you like to live in a society guided by Christian principles, comprising a Christian state?
    * A Rejection of Neutrality: Christianity against the "neutral" state, believing that a society not built on Christian values would inevitably fall into chaos.
    * Structure:
    * The State: Its laws and, to some extent, its public institutions should be guided by Christianity principles, even if not every citizen is a devout believer.
    * The Community: A society where the rhythm of life (holidays, work) and morality are implicitly Christian.
    * The Community of Christianity: An intellectual and spiritual elite (the "conscious" part of the society) that maintains the theological and moral integrity of the culture. A supreme leader above all politicians.
    * Christianity acts as a moral compass to the State, rather than being controlled by state. 

    Fucking hell

    It’s like a PowerPoint presentation.

    Thank god it doesn’t say in the bottom corner 1/75
    You are right for once Taz! ☺️

    It’s my Sunday school lessons.

    Based on TS Elliot’s Idea of a Christian Society. Exploring to what extent you have a religious society, or a liberal one.

    It’s there in the Trump Administration too isn’t it, and the right wing goons marching now on British Streets, very much the same as Iran, or those fighting for Islamic State.

    And the reason why it’s a good lesson, and good to discuss, is Trump, Farage, Iran Supreme Leader and those goons on British Streets have their use of Religion. Which many in the Christian Church leadership call stealing religion for their own advantage and nefarious ends, don’t they?

    So what is the motivation? Do they have fear of liberal secular society, a deep down belief secular, liberal, being neutral has gone too far, and deep down belief that “their” civilisation needs to reclaim its religious foundations to avoid "suicide".
    Each of the words 'liberal, 'neutral' and 'secular' seem to me to need careful elucidation about its meaning and contextual setting in our history leading up to now. Especially 'neutral'. I can have a stab at the others, but with 'neutral' you would have to start from scratch.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,863
    edited 7:35PM

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
    The Evangelicals aren’t even close to Crusaders. And I don’t know the word for the Jewish equivalent
    White Evangelicals supporting Trump are close to crusaders in their values - they need a perceived religious war, and a "threat" to loathe, to justify their political programme.

    The extreme right (eg Yaxley-Lennon and fellow travellers) aresomething different, who want a religious skin for their polityics, and find the fear and hate driven ideas of medieval Roman Catholic Crusaders transplanted to today to be the most convenient for them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
    This shouldn't be a controversial point, and it's possible to do it without being hateful or a dick.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,438
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Apparently Miller has come out on top.

    Noem didn't get fired. ICE are staying in Minnesota

    A pyrrhic victory. The mood in the US is shifting fast.
    It is indeed.

    On Holocaust Memorial Day, here’s Tim Walz urging communities to come together and celebrate peace and love.

    No sorry I got that wrong, here’s Tim Walz comaparing illegal immigrants in Minnesota with Anne Frank in Amsterdam.

    https://x.com/endwokeness/status/2015512343887708359
    What an idiot post. Anne Frank was Jewish and the Gestapo were to rounding up all the Jews in Holland with the help of the local police to remove them and take them to camps. Some helped them by hiding them. What's tricky for even a Trump worshipper to understand?
    judging by his posts over the last week, sandpit thinks the gestapo were the good guys
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
    You oppose the 10 commandments?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,473

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
    Well said. I quite comfortably oppose all organised religions.
    It's perfectly possible to be religious, or non religious and accept that whatever your views you don't have to regard any other views axiomatically as something to oppose. Try the very 16th century Dean of St Paul's, John Donne:

    To adore, or scorn an image, or protest,
    May all be bad; doubt wisely; in strange way
    To stand inquiring right, is not to stray;
    To sleep, or run wrong, is. On a huge hill,
    Cragged and steep, Truth stands, and he that will
    Reach her, about must and about must go,
    And what the hill's suddenness resists, win so.
    Yet strive so that before age, death's twilight,
    Thy soul rest, for none can work in that night.


    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44125/satire-iii
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,352
    edited 7:41PM
    I just got round to watching Polanski's PPB from last week. As a raging leftie, I found it quite disappointing and, along with other stuff I've read and seen, I've concluded that he's really just a mirror image of Farage. An egotistical one-man band, bit of a charlatan, looking for easy solutions to complex problems. Britain is broken, and here's the easy fix. I'm not sure his appeal will be enduring.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,312
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    It's possible he's teetering, but I think the way he's wired and who he is that he's Conservative through and through - wears it like a skin - and has called for these deals before.

    So it's probably just deal-making.
    Probably, though I don't see any good choices for the Tories. They'll be humiliated if/when they stand, but ceding the ground entirely is a big deal for one of the traditional big two, once they officially accept they have no shot and, implicitly or otherwise, their voters should back Reform to beat Labour, well, they're halfway to a pact/merger already.

    Which might not be so bad for them, except that Reform expect to be the leader in any such scenario, notwithstanding the Tories have 10x the seats at the moment.
    I think the Tories should hold their ground and their nerve.

    They made some shit choices on leader over recent years, and badly fucked up on immigration, but I still think they have a distinctive offer that Reform and Labour don't and, weirdly, a place in the English (in particular) political psych rooted in history.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759
    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
    You oppose the 10 commandments?
    Some of them. But in any case people can support elements of a religious philosophy whilst being opposed to some fundamental tenets of the faith itself.

    Someone might find a lot they like about the teachings of Jesus but still oppose the religious institutions promoting it, or just not agree with (and so oppose) fundamental aspects of its beliefs (eg that Jesus was the son of God).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Ah, I see. Then no, opposing Islamism isn't Islamophobic, just as opposing Zionism isn't antisemitic.
    Zionism wants a slightly larger, so a bit more secure, safe haven than they have now

    Islamism wants the whole world
    Well so does evangelical Christianity, however most of both want to do it via persuasion and peaceful conversion but there is a minority of militant jihadi Islam that wants to do it by violence
    The Evangelicals aren’t even close to Crusaders. And I don’t know the word for the Jewish equivalent
    White Evangelicals supporting Trump are close to crusaders in their values - they need a perceived religious war, and a "threat" to loathe, to justify their political programme.

    The extreme right (eg Yaxley-Lennon and fellow travellers) aresomething different, who want a religious skin for their polityics, and find the fear and hate driven ideas of medieval Roman Catholic Crusaders transplanted to today to be the most convenient for them.
    And the nationalist hard right use Christian nationalism as a tool to oppose Islam rather than really caring much about Christ's teachings
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,371
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
    You oppose the 10 commandments?
    Some of them. But in any case people can support elements of a religious philosophy whilst being opposed to some fundamental tenets of the faith itself.

    Someone might find a lot they like about the teachings of Jesus but still oppose the religious institutions promoting it, or just not agree with (and so oppose) fundamental aspects of its beliefs (eg that Jesus was the son of God).
    Well Jews don't believe Jesus was the son of God
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has called for the Conservatives to stand aside in the Gorton and Denton by-election to help secure a victory for Reform UK
    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2016198346751328469?s=20

    It's possible he's teetering, but I think the way he's wired and who he is that he's Conservative through and through - wears it like a skin - and has called for these deals before.

    So it's probably just deal-making.
    Probably, though I don't see any good choices for the Tories. They'll be humiliated if/when they stand, but ceding the ground entirely is a big deal for one of the traditional big two, once they officially accept they have no shot and, implicitly or otherwise, their voters should back Reform to beat Labour, well, they're halfway to a pact/merger already.

    Which might not be so bad for them, except that Reform expect to be the leader in any such scenario, notwithstanding the Tories have 10x the seats at the moment.
    I think the Tories should hold their ground and their nerve.

    They made some shit choices on leader over recent years, and badly fucked up on immigration, but I still think they have a distinctive offer that Reform and Labour don't and, weirdly, a place in the English (in particular) political psych rooted in history.
    They'll do badly in the by-election, but I see no advantage to them in just giving up.

    I'm viewing it from the outside of course (though I have voted Tory before), but Rees-Mogg seems to be coming at it from the point of view that Reform are on the same side as the Tories really, and that seems at odds with how Reform themselves view things, so why assist them?

    If you are going down, go down fighting.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,852

    James Walker
    @James_L_Walker

    *Not so fun fact. Matt Goodwin was my dissertation supervisor.

    Only briefly mind. I swapped after he said that my idea - a study and survey on the politics of the homeless (less than 1% vote) - was of "no academic interest".

    I got a 1st 🎓

    https://x.com/James_L_Walker/status/2016184708543951355

    So whilst it would appear Goodwin was a poor tutor-mentor, remember he was an even worse pollster.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,759
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is opposing Islamism Islamophobic?

    Is opposing Judaism antisemitic? I'd say yes to that, so I'd also say yes to your question.
    Islamism is different from Islam. Look them up
    Being opposed to Islam isn't islamophobic. It's a religion, and therefore a philosophy, a belief system, and may be opposed. Exactly as you may be opposed to a political philosophy.

    Similarly, being opposed to Judaism, the religion, isn't antisemitic.
    You oppose the 10 commandments?
    Some of them. But in any case people can support elements of a religious philosophy whilst being opposed to some fundamental tenets of the faith itself.

    Someone might find a lot they like about the teachings of Jesus but still oppose the religious institutions promoting it, or just not agree with (and so oppose) fundamental aspects of its beliefs (eg that Jesus was the son of God).
    Well Jews don't believe Jesus was the son of God
    You don't say.

    Of course, early Christians also famoulsy argued about the precise nature of Christ too, in their own way.
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