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  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,142

    Some better surprises/ revisions in GDP numbers:

    Economy rebounded on monthly figure in November - up 0.3%, and it turned out that it didn’t fall in September, after revisions…

    On 3 month figure - up slightly 0.1% but the negative number last month also revised away…

    Flattish but not negative/no recession.

    Nobody should get carried away on upside with these numbers, but plenty of doom mongers were getting carried away on the downside, and the evidence is that the slight negative numbers at the end of last year were flattish/ slightly up… unlikely now to get a negative number q4


    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/2011713807002050914

    It's still shit performance.

    Youre trying to sell mediocrity.

    Glitter and turds spring to mind
    The question for those who would bet on politics is what the country will look like after another three years of slow progress towards the sunlit uplands. Will we go to the polls in 2029 with a slightly bigger economy, slightly shorter waiting lists, slightly lower crime rates, and will that be enough to return a Labour government with a slightly smaller majority?
    We'll bumble along witth growth at the margins while other countries steam ahead.

    This will be to the chorus of spin doctors telling us we have tried very hard and deserve a prize.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,292
    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    The complexities of Iran, which make it unique, though comparable to Greece, Rome, Judea etc.

    1) It has a continuous and ancient culture and a history of conquering and being conquered
    2) It had a unique and interesting ancient religion (which clings on for a few)
    3) It is Islamic, middle eastern and (while ethnically very mixed) definitely not Arab
    4) Its ethnic and language roots are Indo European, not semitic
    5) While the language is Indo European, its script is Arabic
    6) Its cultural history is glorious and continuous
    7) Its version of Islam is followed only by about 10% of Muslims, and it is the only large shia country
    8) For shia and sunni relationships don't think about UK ecumenism, compare it with 16th century RC v protestant relations
    9) Iranians are proud and educated
    10) The west is profoundly ignorant of Iranian history. For example, In how many universities in the UK can you study the Elamites compared with the number you can study ancient Greece and Rome or ancient Judea?

    I have a couple of friends who have travelled to Iran, and they both came back deeply impressed by the country and its people. It's a tragedy the Iranians have to live under such a brutal and backward-looking regime, and one can understand their desire for change.

    Trump's deeply foolish cheering them on without having any levers of sufficient import to pull reminds me of the betrayal of the demonstrators in Budapest '56 and Prague '68.
    I think we can argue Budapest and Prague were different cases as was Poland in 1981 - a direct military intervention by the US would have been an act of war or regarded as such as Moscow just as if Russian forces had intervened during the Paris riots.

    As for Iran, there's a sense the moment has passed (this time). Had America intervened late last week, who knows? Even now, I'm hearing some are turning on Pahlavi as a possible future leader because of his closeness to Trump - it may be the post-theocratic Iran doesn't turn out as Washington and Trump would like or hope. Revolutions are like that - they don't always go where you want or expect.
    The parallel is the cheering on and encouragement from a distance (such as by VOA), followed by...nothing. Iran too would see US intervention as an act of war, the difference being that it doesn't have nuclear weapons.
    Hasn't Trump defunded VOA ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709

    Foss said:

    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    Huzzah, a victory for Blighty and Starmer.

    Elon Musk backs down in row over Grok AI undressing tool

    The X platform said it had imposed restrictions on editing images, after Keir Starmer threatened legal action against the chatbot


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/technology-uk/article/grok-ai-x-chatgpt-ai-images-elon-musk-8cwwldb7l

    Within the comment on this piece was a statement about X/Grok obeying local (i.e. country) laws - is this going to be another case where the law is made impotent if you have a VPN?
    Why do people have VPNs? (Rhetorical)
    To access information that they cannot do from their existing location. Reasons for doing so range from innocent ones like accessing a work server from home, through minor crimes like accessing TV shows outside their country, to accessing vile criminal activity whilst bypassing local restrictions.
    And for security in accessing work systems. Almost everyone WFH and logging into remote systems should be using a VPN, even though they might not realise that is what they are doing.
    Does that mean you can access adult content when WFH?

    (Asking for a friend.)
    I can certainly access the BBC overseas instance when connected through a non-uk endpoint. Porn is something you can try.
    I'm thinking of a change of career. How much do they pay?
    Porn? Almost nothing according to The Rest is Entertainment, following the collapse of the studio system that made films and DVDs. Try OnlyFans. Here is TRiE's take:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMscjlfGTDQ&t=945s
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,928
    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Yeah, it's zealotry which is the common factor. That can be a major part of religion but political fundamentalism (fascism, communism etc) can be a cause too.

    It's also why closing down debates by insisting disagreement is a moral wrong or trying to take people down for using wrongspeak are major red flags that someone wants to win an argument not through reasoned intelligence and persuasion but by defining the rules of the game and red carding anyone who has the temerity to dissent.
    Pure selfishness, too. The only way you can live with taking people as slaves and selling them, is to dehumanise them in some way.
    Slightly OT, ahem, but I recently read Maurice's Strategikon, and I think it was the Slavs that were asserted to keep people as slaves, but to free them after a few years and either let them go home or stay and live as a free man.
    When I first started doing Latin, textbooks tended to treat ancient slavery as sort of okay, because it was not race-based. I remember the phrase “Laeti servi sunt”, “the slaves are happy”, along with a picture of good-humoured slaves going off to work the land.

    Then, one of my teachers gave a really gripping lesson about the realities of ancient slavery.
    Also important to remember that the lot of many 'free' ordinary peasants, in medieval times and later, nevertheless had many aspects that we would nowadays see as akin to slavery, such as being forbidden to leave their land
    Quite a lot of 19th century labour practices would be counted as Modern Slavery.
    Quite a lot of 19th labour practices, in some countries, were slavery with extra steps.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,117

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sadiq Khan: AI could usher in new era of mass unemployment

    AI could become a "weapon of mass destruction of jobs" if urgent action is not taken, according to London mayor Sir Sadiq Khan."

    https://news.sky.com/story/sadiq-khan-ai-could-usher-in-new-era-of-mass-unemployment-13494305

    if robotics gets more advanced that'll wipe out even more.
    I'm old enough to remember being informed E-mail would lead to a life of leisure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,292
    One of Mamdani's first interventions - helping small businesses.

    @NYCMayor signed an executive order that directs seven city agencies to create a comprehensive inventory of all the fees and civil penalties that small businesses pay in NYC - with the intent of trying to reduce/cut some of these fines and fees
    https://x.com/morganfmckay/status/2011490482635915745
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,455

    Some better surprises/ revisions in GDP numbers:

    Economy rebounded on monthly figure in November - up 0.3%, and it turned out that it didn’t fall in September, after revisions…

    On 3 month figure - up slightly 0.1% but the negative number last month also revised away…

    Flattish but not negative/no recession.

    Nobody should get carried away on upside with these numbers, but plenty of doom mongers were getting carried away on the downside, and the evidence is that the slight negative numbers at the end of last year were flattish/ slightly up… unlikely now to get a negative number q4


    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/2011713807002050914

    It's still shit performance.

    Youre trying to sell mediocrity.

    Glitter and turds spring to mind
    The question for those who would bet on politics is what the country will look like after another three years of slow progress towards the sunlit uplands. Will we go to the polls in 2029 with a slightly bigger economy, slightly shorter waiting lists, slightly lower crime rates, and will that be enough to return a Labour government with a slightly smaller majority?
    We'll bumble along witth growth at the margins while other countries steam ahead.

    This will be to the chorus of spin doctors telling us we have tried very hard and deserve a prize.

    I don't believe any enthusiast for Brexit is qualified to advise on the growth agenda. Had they not voted to self-impose economic sanctions on our nation that notion could be revised upwards.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835
    MelonB said:

    One reading if these numbers really are true: they imply the protesters are fighting back. A non violent protest brutally put down by security forces generally only requires a hundred or so deaths before the protesters call it quits. The sorts of numbers we’re seeing now are more reminiscent of Libya or early Syria.

    What seems clear though is Trump has managed to squander his recently acquired cloak of invincibility, like his predecessors did over Assad.

    I don't think that's necessarily true. The Iranian protests in 2009 saw about 12,000 murders to put them down.

    I think the regime has passed the point of maximum danger. The protests have lost momentum. No significant regime forces have switched sides. The regime has shown a limitless willingness to kill its own people.

    The very high number of deaths will be a barometer of how determined the protests were, but unless a regime panics, or it splits and significant parts switch sides, then any such protest movement is doomed to failure.

    As an aside, I really dislike how Trump has managed to make the Iran protests almost entirely about himself in the mainstream media.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    Huzzah, a victory for Blighty and Starmer.

    Elon Musk backs down in row over Grok AI undressing tool

    The X platform said it had imposed restrictions on editing images, after Keir Starmer threatened legal action against the chatbot


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/technology-uk/article/grok-ai-x-chatgpt-ai-images-elon-musk-8cwwldb7l

    Within the comment on this piece was a statement about X/Grok obeying local (i.e. country) laws - is this going to be another case where the law is made impotent if you have a VPN?
    Why do people have VPNs? (Rhetorical)
    To access information that they cannot do from their existing location. Reasons for doing so range from innocent ones like accessing a work server from home, through minor crimes like accessing TV shows outside their country, to accessing vile criminal activity whilst bypassing local restrictions.
    And for security in accessing work systems. Almost everyone WFH and logging into remote systems should be using a VPN, even though they might not realise that is what they are doing.
    Does that mean you can access adult content when WFH?

    (Asking for a friend.)
    Yes.

    I am one of the few employees at my firm that can access any website he likes.

    For research and investigation purposes, of course.

    I have actually watched porn on my work laptop and 26 inch monitor.

    I had to investigate somebody being very naughty.
    Don’t worry, the IT guy knows exactly what you’re watching…
    You're another user of Ihadtoinvestigatesomebodybeingverynaughty.com ?
    Closely followed by an expense claim for a new large-screen, high-res monitor from Currys.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,450

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    Streeting, Starmer and Mahmood can all f*** off. It's not their job to sack Chief Constables. There is a due process.

    WMP made the evidence fit the frame, and unfortunately the evidence was very faulty and Guildford personally delivered that faulty evidence. Does the buck stop with Mr Guildford? Quite probably. Should he fall? Probably.

    What is depressing is members of the current Cabinet as well as the Shadow Cabinet have framed this as anti-Israel/Jewish rather than as an operational safety issue. I suspect in the first instance the first consideration was for legitimate concerns over public safety. It then all got swept away in a tide of ethnic and geopolitics with a large side order of incompetence.
    WMP of course have 'form' in 'making the evidence fit the frame'.

    Seems to men that the main problem is that while he made a 'mistake' and has, sort of, admitted it, he hasn't really apologised and explained.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,292
    Ted Cruz, 2016: “We’re liable to wake up one morning and Donald, if he were president, would have nuked Denmark.”
    https://x.com/Daractenus/status/2011526711083753884

    2026 ... "And I fully support that."
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,290
    SNP looking at the major set back of being reduced to 61 seats.
    Would be funny to see SLab and Reform arguing over who should get the meaningless wooden spoon of being the 'official' opposition party.

    https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/2011715434694000878?s=20
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709
    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    The complexities of Iran, which make it unique, though comparable to Greece, Rome, Judea etc.

    1) It has a continuous and ancient culture and a history of conquering and being conquered
    2) It had a unique and interesting ancient religion (which clings on for a few)
    3) It is Islamic, middle eastern and (while ethnically very mixed) definitely not Arab
    4) Its ethnic and language roots are Indo European, not semitic
    5) While the language is Indo European, its script is Arabic
    6) Its cultural history is glorious and continuous
    7) Its version of Islam is followed only by about 10% of Muslims, and it is the only large shia country
    8) For shia and sunni relationships don't think about UK ecumenism, compare it with 16th century RC v protestant relations
    9) Iranians are proud and educated
    10) The west is profoundly ignorant of Iranian history. For example, In how many universities in the UK can you study the Elamites compared with the number you can study ancient Greece and Rome or ancient Judea?

    Would add.
    It isn't Iraq.
    It is the size of California, Texas and Montana combined. About the same as Alaska.
    With vast deserts and inaccessible mountain ranges.
    Iran is seven or eight times larger than Britain, much of which is also inaccessible given the on-off nature of HS2 and NPR.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,061
    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,880

    Some better surprises/ revisions in GDP numbers:

    Economy rebounded on monthly figure in November - up 0.3%, and it turned out that it didn’t fall in September, after revisions…

    On 3 month figure - up slightly 0.1% but the negative number last month also revised away…

    Flattish but not negative/no recession.

    Nobody should get carried away on upside with these numbers, but plenty of doom mongers were getting carried away on the downside, and the evidence is that the slight negative numbers at the end of last year were flattish/ slightly up… unlikely now to get a negative number q4


    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/2011713807002050914

    It's still shit performance.

    Youre trying to sell mediocrity.

    Glitter and turds spring to mind
    We are bumping along the bottom, stagnating or whatever term you wish to use.

    The "sunlit uplands" of 5% annual growth we remember from our younger years seem forgotten dreams of days long past. Of the G20, I believe only India and Argentina are still growing at 5% or more per year. We aren't exceptional at around 1-1.5% - even the powerhouse that is the United States isn't growing that strongly.

    It's a common problem facing economies where the demographic profile is shifting away from younger productive workers to older, economically inactive people whose contribution is to spend the capital receipts from runaway house price inflation to support the Service and hospitality industries.

    Unfortunately, those aggrieved at the current situation are trotting out the old 20th century solutions as if, somehow, recreating the economy of the past with the technology and demographics of the present is somehow going to power us to extra growth.

    We need new thinking on socio-economic issues beyond the tired old mantras of cutting and raising spending and taxes and hoping somehow "trickle down" will save us all. We need to think of the post-work world and, to an extent, promoting policies which will be seen as being "fair" by the electorate after two generations of toxic economic debate and propaganda which means any form of "honesty" on the economy is immediately seized on by the other side.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,285
    edited 10:09AM
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    Huzzah, a victory for Blighty and Starmer.

    Elon Musk backs down in row over Grok AI undressing tool

    The X platform said it had imposed restrictions on editing images, after Keir Starmer threatened legal action against the chatbot


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/technology-uk/article/grok-ai-x-chatgpt-ai-images-elon-musk-8cwwldb7l

    Within the comment on this piece was a statement about X/Grok obeying local (i.e. country) laws - is this going to be another case where the law is made impotent if you have a VPN?
    Why do people have VPNs? (Rhetorical)
    To access information that they cannot do from their existing location. Reasons for doing so range from innocent ones like accessing a work server from home, through minor crimes like accessing TV shows outside their country, to accessing vile criminal activity whilst bypassing local restrictions.
    And for security in accessing work systems. Almost everyone WFH and logging into remote systems should be using a VPN, even though they might not realise that is what they are doing.
    Does that mean you can access adult content when WFH?

    (Asking for a friend.)
    Yes.

    I am one of the few employees at my firm that can access any website he likes.

    For research and investigation purposes, of course.

    I have actually watched porn on my work laptop and 26 inch monitor.

    I had to investigate somebody being very naughty.
    Don’t worry, the IT guy knows exactly what you’re watching…
    You're another user of Ihadtoinvestigatesomebodybeingverynaughty.com ?
    That, and Fortinet. ;)

    Edit: you should register that domain!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,450

    MelonB said:

    One reading if these numbers really are true: they imply the protesters are fighting back. A non violent protest brutally put down by security forces generally only requires a hundred or so deaths before the protesters call it quits. The sorts of numbers we’re seeing now are more reminiscent of Libya or early Syria.

    What seems clear though is Trump has managed to squander his recently acquired cloak of invincibility, like his predecessors did over Assad.

    I don't think that's necessarily true. The Iranian protests in 2009 saw about 12,000 murders to put them down.

    I think the regime has passed the point of maximum danger. The protests have lost momentum. No significant regime forces have switched sides. The regime has shown a limitless willingness to kill its own people.

    The very high number of deaths will be a barometer of how determined the protests were, but unless a regime panics, or it splits and significant parts switch sides, then any such protest movement is doomed to failure.

    As an aside, I really dislike how Trump has managed to make the Iran protests almost entirely about himself in the mainstream media.
    Agree. Regimes do not collapse unless a significant part of the support structure, preferably a major military commander, switch sides or become neutral. And the regime has the Revolutionary Guard which, for whatever reason, seems loyal.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835

    FPT: Bad day for Russia in Ukraine - 1150 men, 84 pieces of artillery no longer reporting for duty...

    Oh, and a record 8 MLRs.

    I think it's been eight (8) days since the last Russian oil refinery was hit, though. That's AGES.

    Also, we see again that Trump's supposed "unpredictability" that was going to panic Putin into concessions and lead to a Korean-style armistice in Ukraine is, predictably, today expressing itself as extra pressure on Ukraine to withdraw from the Donbas. What a "Jeremy Hunt" Trump is.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,450

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,572
    Oops

    @pacantifa.is‬

    ICE agents fled from the crowd and left behind their CONOPS battle plan for Minneapolis, including agent's names, hotel rooms, phone numbers, boxes of license plates, and tac radio frequencies.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pacantifa.is/post/3mcgze46w2k23
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,928
    Nigelb said:

    One of Mamdani's first interventions - helping small businesses.

    @NYCMayor signed an executive order that directs seven city agencies to create a comprehensive inventory of all the fees and civil penalties that small businesses pay in NYC - with the intent of trying to reduce/cut some of these fines and fees
    https://x.com/morganfmckay/status/2011490482635915745

    Need something similar in the UK

    The other big one is tax structure.

    I still think that profit based taxation, in return for running your business with a simple structure - one Ltd, not selling stuff to yourself etc. - would be a massive improvement on the current system.

    Run it as an alternative to the current system - if you can demonstrate the simple structure, you can have the profit based taxes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,285

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    There were stories of American troops in the UK not understanding why there wasn’t racial segregation, and that blacks and whites would go to the same pubs of an evening.

    One likes to think that it made a small but significant difference to changing American attitudes after the war.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,607

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    Streeting, Starmer and Mahmood can all f*** off. It's not their job to sack Chief Constables. There is a due process.

    WMP made the evidence fit the frame, and unfortunately the evidence was very faulty and Guildford personally delivered that faulty evidence. Does the buck stop with Mr Guildford? Quite probably. Should he fall? Probably.

    What is depressing is members of the current Cabinet as well as the Shadow Cabinet have framed this as anti-Israel/Jewish rather than as an operational safety issue. I suspect in the first instance the first consideration was for legitimate concerns over public safety. It then all got swept away in a tide of ethnic and geopolitics with a large side order of incompetence.
    Mostly nonsense. How many other sets of fans have EVER been banned from travelling to the UK? It was always antisemitic pressure from local pro Palestine antisemites. The police behaved disgracefully. The only question is why is anyone surprised?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,241
    “Russian Z-bloggers are claiming that China has now effectively taken over a large part of Russia`s far east. China is now allegedly earning taxes from areas from Chita all the way to Vladivostok, with a large Chinese population now residing there.”

    https://x.com/raging545/status/2011743629828898820
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709
    Enough of Iran and Russia. The BBC identifies a rift between two factions in the Taliban.

    Rift at top of the Taliban: BBC reveals clash of wills behind internet shutdown

    ...two distinct groups at the very top of the Taliban - each presenting competing visions for Afghanistan.

    One entirely loyal to Akhundzada, who, from his base in Kandahar, is driving the country towards his vision of a strict Islamic Emirate - isolated from the modern world, where religious figures loyal to him control every aspect of society.

    And a second, made up of powerful Taliban members largely based in the capital Kabul, advocating for an Afghanistan which - while still following a strict interpretation of Islam - engages with the outside, builds the country's economy, and even allows girls and women access to an education they are currently denied beyond primary school.

    One insider described it as "the Kandahar house versus Kabul".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7vdpy1l2vo
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,290

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,214

    Enough of Iran and Russia. The BBC identifies a rift between two factions in the Taliban.

    Rift at top of the Taliban: BBC reveals clash of wills behind internet shutdown

    ...two distinct groups at the very top of the Taliban - each presenting competing visions for Afghanistan.

    One entirely loyal to Akhundzada, who, from his base in Kandahar, is driving the country towards his vision of a strict Islamic Emirate - isolated from the modern world, where religious figures loyal to him control every aspect of society.

    And a second, made up of powerful Taliban members largely based in the capital Kabul, advocating for an Afghanistan which - while still following a strict interpretation of Islam - engages with the outside, builds the country's economy, and even allows girls and women access to an education they are currently denied beyond primary school.

    One insider described it as "the Kandahar house versus Kabul".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7vdpy1l2vo

    Splitters!!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,323

    ...

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    I'm not convinced giving the Home Secretary the power to fire a Chief Constable is a good idea. There is an existing accountability and that's how it should be - simply sending more authority up to Ministers undermines local democracy - it's the sort of game Boris Johnson played when he took powers from Westminster and gave them to Ministers - have they been repatriated by Starmer, I'm going to say no?

    We have a PCC in the West Midlands - for now. That person was duly elected and ultimately it's their decision, rightly or wrongly.

    This whole business has been an example of ineptitude in extremis and the argument Guildford (the man, not the city) should be sacked is a powerful one given everything that has happened but that does not condone further Government intervention in the form of expanding the power of Ministers.

    What Mahmood is proposing, I believe, is analogous to what used to be the case in London when the Commissioner of the Met could only be hired and fired via the Home Secretary (until the coming of the Mayor).
    Returning the hiring and firing of Chief Constables into the hands of say an extreme Government Home Secretary with Trumpian agendas looks to me like a bad idea.
    Appointing Chief Constables according to their ability instead of their compliance with woke agendas and their willingness to comply with the wishes of pressure groups would help in the future. There must be a sensible middle option between Chief Constable Savage and Chief Constable Woke Agenda.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,281

    “Russian Z-bloggers are claiming that China has now effectively taken over a large part of Russia`s far east. China is now allegedly earning taxes from areas from Chita all the way to Vladivostok, with a large Chinese population now residing there.”

    https://x.com/raging545/status/2011743629828898820

    It's taken them until now to realise the issue, I remember a TV show hinting as much a decade ago...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,214
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    There were stories of American troops in the UK not understanding why there wasn’t racial segregation, and that blacks and whites would go to the same pubs of an evening.

    One likes to think that it made a small but significant difference to changing American attitudes after the war.
    Erm...there were horrific race fights in the UK when blacks and whites ended up in towns on the same night. Newton Abbot for example.

    There's an apocryphal story of a group of black GIs in a Devon pub. One of the locals was watching him intently.

    "You got a problem?" one of the GIs asked.

    "No problem...it's your white ones I can't be doing with...."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,647
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    There were stories of American troops in the UK not understanding why there wasn’t racial segregation, and that blacks and whites would go to the same pubs of an evening.

    One likes to think that it made a small but significant difference to changing American attitudes after the war.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,285
    eek said:

    “Russian Z-bloggers are claiming that China has now effectively taken over a large part of Russia`s far east. China is now allegedly earning taxes from areas from Chita all the way to Vladivostok, with a large Chinese population now residing there.”

    https://x.com/raging545/status/2011743629828898820

    It's taken them until now to realise the issue, I remember a TV show hinting as much a decade ago...
    The Chinese are probably not about to raise a flag in the town square of Vladivostok, but they’re slowly but surely taking over most of the region that’s currently Russian.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,320

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
    Other than hatred for the diabolical Jew, Nazi racial theories and policies seem largely to have been down to the will of individual officials.

    Whether you were a Slavic untermensch, a volksdeutsch, or a Slav deemed suitable for Germanisation, was all pretty arbitrary.

    Blacks were not a priority.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709
    eek said:

    “Russian Z-bloggers are claiming that China has now effectively taken over a large part of Russia`s far east. China is now allegedly earning taxes from areas from Chita all the way to Vladivostok, with a large Chinese population now residing there.”

    https://x.com/raging545/status/2011743629828898820

    It's taken them until now to realise the issue, I remember a TV show hinting as much a decade ago...
    Some of us have been spreading conspiracy theories on pb.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,323
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sadiq Khan: AI could usher in new era of mass unemployment

    AI could become a "weapon of mass destruction of jobs" if urgent action is not taken, according to London mayor Sir Sadiq Khan."

    https://news.sky.com/story/sadiq-khan-ai-could-usher-in-new-era-of-mass-unemployment-13494305

    if robotics gets more advanced that'll wipe out even more.
    I'm old enough to remember being informed E-mail would lead to a life of leisure.
    Just tell your boss that your spam filter automatically moves all work e-mails into your junk folder. From experience, most work e-mails are junk anyway.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,202

    SNP looking at the major set back of being reduced to 61 seats.
    Would be funny to see SLab and Reform arguing over who should get the meaningless wooden spoon of being the 'official' opposition party.

    https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/2011715434694000878?s=20

    Demonstrates that voting SNP on the list is a wasted vote. Better to vote for "I Can't Believe It's Not SNP" to get more supporters of independence into parliament.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,133

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    Streeting, Starmer and Mahmood can all f*** off. It's not their job to sack Chief Constables. There is a due process.

    WMP made the evidence fit the frame, and unfortunately the evidence was very faulty and Guildford personally delivered that faulty evidence. Does the buck stop with Mr Guildford? Quite probably. Should he fall? Probably.

    What is depressing is members of the current Cabinet as well as the Shadow Cabinet have framed this as anti-Israel/Jewish rather than as an operational safety issue. I suspect in the first instance the first consideration was for legitimate concerns over public safety. It then all got swept away in a tide of ethnic and geopolitics with a large side order of incompetence.
    It was the Home Secretaries job until 2011, however. With PCCs being abolished, the process has to be changed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Bad day for Russia in Ukraine - 1150 men, 84 pieces of artillery no longer reporting for duty...

    Oh, and a record 8 MLRs.

    Four dodgy oil ships hit in the Black Sea as well.

    Russian deaths in the last couple of months are higher than the recruitment rate, their army is slowly but surely being dismantled.

    Have to LOL at Russians saying that there’s fewer of their tanks being destroyed. Da, it’s true, but only because they have almost no tanks left to field.
    But your man Trump is blaming Zelensky again for the war not ending.
    Sadly, as long as Putin and those around him are willing to feed the meat-grinder, Ukraine is not winning. Both sides are doing a reasonable job of isolating the war from most of their people.
    This is to misunderstand the nature of war for at least the last century.

    Russia's recent [limited] battlefield success is more due to them improving the number of FPV drones deployed and the quality of the operators using them, rather than simply by flooding the battlefield with bodies. The support they've received from China in terms of drones and components has been crucial in this regard, and is much overlooked when there's an emphasis on soldier numbers.

    The ability of the Russians to learn and improve their fighting methods has been much underestimated.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,455

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    Streeting, Starmer and Mahmood can all f*** off. It's not their job to sack Chief Constables. There is a due process.

    WMP made the evidence fit the frame, and unfortunately the evidence was very faulty and Guildford personally delivered that faulty evidence. Does the buck stop with Mr Guildford? Quite probably. Should he fall? Probably.

    What is depressing is members of the current Cabinet as well as the Shadow Cabinet have framed this as anti-Israel/Jewish rather than as an operational safety issue. I suspect in the first instance the first consideration was for legitimate concerns over public safety. It then all got swept away in a tide of ethnic and geopolitics with a large side order of incompetence.
    It was the Home Secretaries job until 2011, however. With PCCs being abolished, the process has to be changed.
    Not looking forward to Home Secretary Tiny Tommy Robinson making an appropriate call.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,535
    After the massive success of Celebrity Traitors, I fear the BBC may be destroying the brand with the latest regular series. Utter shite.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,455
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
    Other than hatred for the diabolical Jew, Nazi racial theories and policies seem largely to have been down to the will of individual officials.

    Whether you were a Slavic untermensch, a volksdeutsch, or a Slav deemed suitable for Germanisation, was all pretty arbitrary.

    Blacks were not a priority.
    Hitler's embrace of Jesse Owens was a sight to behold.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,285

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Bad day for Russia in Ukraine - 1150 men, 84 pieces of artillery no longer reporting for duty...

    Oh, and a record 8 MLRs.

    Four dodgy oil ships hit in the Black Sea as well.

    Russian deaths in the last couple of months are higher than the recruitment rate, their army is slowly but surely being dismantled.

    Have to LOL at Russians saying that there’s fewer of their tanks being destroyed. Da, it’s true, but only because they have almost no tanks left to field.
    But your man Trump is blaming Zelensky again for the war not ending.
    Sadly, as long as Putin and those around him are willing to feed the meat-grinder, Ukraine is not winning. Both sides are doing a reasonable job of isolating the war from most of their people.
    This is to misunderstand the nature of war for at least the last century.

    Russia's recent [limited] battlefield success is more due to them improving the number of FPV drones deployed and the quality of the operators using them, rather than simply by flooding the battlefield with bodies. The support they've received from China in terms of drones and components has been crucial in this regard, and is much overlooked when there's an emphasis on soldier numbers.

    The ability of the Russians to learn and improve their fighting methods has been much underestimated.
    They’re still losing more than a thousand men every day. They can’t keep that death rate forever, which is why they’re going to lose the war.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,133
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    The complexities of Iran, which make it unique, though comparable to Greece, Rome, Judea etc.

    1) It has a continuous and ancient culture and a history of conquering and being conquered
    2) It had a unique and interesting ancient religion (which clings on for a few)
    3) It is Islamic, middle eastern and (while ethnically very mixed) definitely not Arab
    4) Its ethnic and language roots are Indo European, not semitic
    5) While the language is Indo European, its script is Arabic
    6) Its cultural history is glorious and continuous
    7) Its version of Islam is followed only by about 10% of Muslims, and it is the only large shia country
    8) For shia and sunni relationships don't think about UK ecumenism, compare it with 16th century RC v protestant relations
    9) Iranians are proud and educated
    10) The west is profoundly ignorant of Iranian history. For example, In how many universities in the UK can you study the Elamites compared with the number you can study ancient Greece and Rome or ancient Judea?

    I have a couple of friends who have travelled to Iran, and they both came back deeply impressed by the country and its people. It's a tragedy the Iranians have to live under such a brutal and backward-looking regime, and one can understand their desire for change.

    Trump's deeply foolish cheering them on without having any levers of sufficient import to pull reminds me of the betrayal of the demonstrators in Budapest '56 and Prague '68.
    I think we can argue Budapest and Prague were different cases as was Poland in 1981 - a direct military intervention by the US would have been an act of war or regarded as such as Moscow just as if Russian forces had intervened during the Paris riots.

    As for Iran, there's a sense the moment has passed (this time). Had America intervened late last week, who knows? Even now, I'm hearing some are turning on Pahlavi as a possible future leader because of his closeness to Trump - it may be the post-theocratic Iran doesn't turn out as Washington and Trump would like or hope. Revolutions are like that - they don't always go where you want or expect.
    The parallel is the cheering on and encouragement from a distance (such as by VOA), followed by...nothing. Iran too would see US intervention as an act of war, the difference being that it doesn't have nuclear weapons.
    Hasn't Trump defunded VOA ?
    Yes. 85% of staff sacked. However, Persian-language broadcasts are among the few parts of VoA that have been preserved.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,281
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    “Russian Z-bloggers are claiming that China has now effectively taken over a large part of Russia`s far east. China is now allegedly earning taxes from areas from Chita all the way to Vladivostok, with a large Chinese population now residing there.”

    https://x.com/raging545/status/2011743629828898820

    It's taken them until now to realise the issue, I remember a TV show hinting as much a decade ago...
    The Chinese are probably not about to raise a flag in the town square of Vladivostok, but they’re slowly but surely taking over most of the region that’s currently Russian.
    Given how things (scam, extortion, torture) have played out in other Chinese enclaves (Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia) you probably want the Chinese Government paying attention from early on.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,133
    Nigelb said:

    One of Mamdani's first interventions - helping small businesses.

    @NYCMayor signed an executive order that directs seven city agencies to create a comprehensive inventory of all the fees and civil penalties that small businesses pay in NYC - with the intent of trying to reduce/cut some of these fines and fees
    https://x.com/morganfmckay/status/2011490482635915745

    COMMUNISM! ALL THE WEALTHY PEOPLE ARE FLEEING THIS INJUSTICE!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835

    Some better surprises/ revisions in GDP numbers:

    Economy rebounded on monthly figure in November - up 0.3%, and it turned out that it didn’t fall in September, after revisions…

    On 3 month figure - up slightly 0.1% but the negative number last month also revised away…

    Flattish but not negative/no recession.

    Nobody should get carried away on upside with these numbers, but plenty of doom mongers were getting carried away on the downside, and the evidence is that the slight negative numbers at the end of last year were flattish/ slightly up… unlikely now to get a negative number q4


    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/2011713807002050914

    It's still shit performance.

    Youre trying to sell mediocrity.

    Glitter and turds spring to mind
    As PB Tories, we often found consolation in revised figures.
    Good for you, but the revisions here are simply rounding errors, Our growth should be substantially higher but Rancid Rachel kills off growth at source.

    Totally useless.
    I'm not seeing any obvious change from the status quo that Starmer/Reeves inherited.

    [Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyq/pn2 ]
    When a change was required, and a change was promised, a lack of change is a failure.

    But I think that failure is more in terms of what Labour have not done, rather than in terms of what they have done - i.e. I do not think they have actively prevented growth that would have occurred had they done nothing, but they've failed to make the reforms that would have encouraged growth.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,290
    edited 10:49AM
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
    Other than hatred for the diabolical Jew, Nazi racial theories and policies seem largely to have been down to the will of individual officials.

    Whether you were a Slavic untermensch, a volksdeutsch, or a Slav deemed suitable for Germanisation, was all pretty arbitrary.

    Blacks were not a priority.
    Mainly because there were hardly any black people for Nazi officialdom to deal with.

    The excellent Olusoga series currently being repeated, A House Through Time: Two Cities At War, comparing two similar streets in London & Berlin, discusses the experience of a black Togoan bloke during the rise of the Nazis and the war. Not as grimly inevitable as those of the Jewish inhabitants, but very difficult nontheless. There's an eerie disc recording of him pronouncing the vocabulary of his original language for the ethnographic department of one of the universities.
    His ultimate fate was unknown as I recall.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,133
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    There were stories of American troops in the UK not understanding why there wasn’t racial segregation, and that blacks and whites would go to the same pubs of an evening.

    One likes to think that it made a small but significant difference to changing American attitudes after the war.
    Remember, this is the world Donald Trump grew up in. Trump was 8 when the US armed forces were official desegregated (and, in practice, it was a few years before they were practically desegregated). Discriminatory voting laws were only abolished in 1965, when Trump was 19. Which probably explains why Trump is a massive racist today.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,292
    Trump Net-Approval On:

    Immigration: -23%
    Venezuela: -24%
    Foreign Policy: -24%
    Economy: -25%

    AP-NORC / Jan 11, 2026

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2011472449682956562
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,133

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    Streeting, Starmer and Mahmood can all f*** off. It's not their job to sack Chief Constables. There is a due process.

    WMP made the evidence fit the frame, and unfortunately the evidence was very faulty and Guildford personally delivered that faulty evidence. Does the buck stop with Mr Guildford? Quite probably. Should he fall? Probably.

    What is depressing is members of the current Cabinet as well as the Shadow Cabinet have framed this as anti-Israel/Jewish rather than as an operational safety issue. I suspect in the first instance the first consideration was for legitimate concerns over public safety. It then all got swept away in a tide of ethnic and geopolitics with a large side order of incompetence.
    It was the Home Secretaries job until 2011, however. With PCCs being abolished, the process has to be changed.
    Not looking forward to Home Secretary Tiny Tommy Robinson making an appropriate call.
    As opposed to the current system where Police and Crime Commissioner Tommy Robinson is a possibility?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,133
    tlg86 said:

    After the massive success of Celebrity Traitors, I fear the BBC may be destroying the brand with the latest regular series. Utter shite.

    That seems to be a minority view.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,928

    ...

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    I'm not convinced giving the Home Secretary the power to fire a Chief Constable is a good idea. There is an existing accountability and that's how it should be - simply sending more authority up to Ministers undermines local democracy - it's the sort of game Boris Johnson played when he took powers from Westminster and gave them to Ministers - have they been repatriated by Starmer, I'm going to say no?

    We have a PCC in the West Midlands - for now. That person was duly elected and ultimately it's their decision, rightly or wrongly.

    This whole business has been an example of ineptitude in extremis and the argument Guildford (the man, not the city) should be sacked is a powerful one given everything that has happened but that does not condone further Government intervention in the form of expanding the power of Ministers.

    What Mahmood is proposing, I believe, is analogous to what used to be the case in London when the Commissioner of the Met could only be hired and fired via the Home Secretary (until the coming of the Mayor).
    Returning the hiring and firing of Chief Constables into the hands of say an extreme Government Home Secretary with Trumpian agendas looks to me like a bad idea.
    Appointing Chief Constables according to their ability instead of their compliance with woke agendas and their willingness to comply with the wishes of pressure groups would help in the future. There must be a sensible middle option between Chief Constable Savage and Chief Constable Woke Agenda.
    Chief Constable Savage *is* Chief Constable Woke Agenda.

    He is just saying the words to advance his career.

    Under a Reform Government, he’ll round up the Muslamics with equal cheer and vigor.

    This is why you need people in public office with a moral centre. Rather than a wall of shelves (paid for by the tax payer) of abstract looking awards for “achievements”.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,214
    Nigelb said:

    Trump Net-Approval On:

    Immigration: -23%
    Venezuela: -24%
    Foreign Policy: -24%
    Economy: -25%

    AP-NORC / Jan 11, 2026

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2011472449682956562

    There has been an epic collapse with Gen Z since last February. The drop is (from memory) +12 down to -25.

    Bring on the mid-terms...maybe.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,133

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
    Other than hatred for the diabolical Jew, Nazi racial theories and policies seem largely to have been down to the will of individual officials.

    Whether you were a Slavic untermensch, a volksdeutsch, or a Slav deemed suitable for Germanisation, was all pretty arbitrary.

    Blacks were not a priority.
    Mainly because there were hardly any black people for Nazi officialdom to deal with.

    The excellent Olusoga series currently being repeated, A House Through Time: Two Cities At War, comparing two similar streets in London & Berlin, discusses the experience of a black Togoan bloke during the rise of the Nazis and the war. Not as grimly inevitable as those of the Jewish inhabitants, but very difficult nontheless. There's an eerie disc recording of him pronouncing the vocabulary of his original language for the ethnographic department of one of the universities.
    His ultimate fate was unknown as I recall.
    "A House Through Time: Two Cities At War" is essential viewing, absolutely fascinating and gripping.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,290
    Nigelb said:

    Trump Net-Approval On:

    Immigration: -23%
    Venezuela: -24%
    Foreign Policy: -24%
    Economy: -25%

    AP-NORC / Jan 11, 2026

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2011472449682956562

    Underwater.
    Time to choose between the shark and being eletrocuted.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,572

    tlg86 said:

    After the massive success of Celebrity Traitors, I fear the BBC may be destroying the brand with the latest regular series. Utter shite.

    That seems to be a minority view.
    https://play.grafana.org/d/siqtdwm/the-traitors-uk-series-4?orgId=1&from=now-30d&to=now&timezone=browser&var-player=$__all
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,214
    tlg86 said:

    After the massive success of Celebrity Traitors, I fear the BBC may be destroying the brand with the latest regular series. Utter shite.

    There's always one...

    If players want to blow up their game, what can we do other than enjoy the spectacle?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,894

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
    Mind you, Alfred Einstein described jazz as "the most disgusting treason against all civilized music" in the '20s, and he was German-Jewish...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,437
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@Steven_Swinford

    Wes Streeting says he is ‘horrified’ that Craig Guildford, the chief Constable of West Midlands Police, is still in post and that ‘anyone with integrity would resign’

    He tells TimesRadio that the fact he has failed to do so is a ‘stain on his character’ and says he will be ‘horrified’ if he is still in place by the end of the day"

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2011706974447063307

    Streeting, Starmer and Mahmood can all f*** off. It's not their job to sack Chief Constables. There is a due process.

    WMP made the evidence fit the frame, and unfortunately the evidence was very faulty and Guildford personally delivered that faulty evidence. Does the buck stop with Mr Guildford? Quite probably. Should he fall? Probably.

    What is depressing is members of the current Cabinet as well as the Shadow Cabinet have framed this as anti-Israel/Jewish rather than as an operational safety issue. I suspect in the first instance the first consideration was for legitimate concerns over public safety. It then all got swept away in a tide of ethnic and geopolitics with a large side order of incompetence.
    It's interesting to consider the hypothetical reverse situation. West Bank Utd are a Palestinian team with a fan following notorious for antisemitic chants and violence. They kicked off with that recently in Amsterdam. They're now drawn to play a cup game in a heavily Jewish area of North London. With tensions high due to the Gaza war the police are worried about safety. Their concern is shared by the community. They decide to ban away supporters.

    The reaction? I bet that would be largely reversed too. Many of the people calling the Maccabi ban a "day of shame" would be saying "good decision". Sad but prudent and reasonable. And many of the people who welcomed the Maccabi ban would be up in arms about this one. Outrageous. A sign that Muslims don't count. Caving in to the Jewish lobby.

    Israel/Palestine is brilliant at doing this.
    I think there are two issues.

    Should an Israeli (or Palestinian) team be banned internationally during a period of conflict? We ban Russia, but not Ukraine, so maybe it is aggressors only but I dont think any other country is banned currently despite ongoing conflicts, the odd exception in the past with Yugoslavia and South Africa. So that is a maybe but probably not.

    Should a team with a history of fan violence be banned from playing? There is no history of that and with intelligence led policing we have coped with plenty of scary teams from abroad. Maccabi are scary but not unusually so, the UK probably hosts half a dozen or so similar fixtures each year. So that is a no, unless extremely exceptional, which wasn't the case.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,403
    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
    Mind you, Alfred Einstein described jazz as "the most disgusting treason against all civilized music" in the '20s, and he was German-Jewish...
    Mr. B2, while some jazz is... passable, I've heard some bloody offensive 'music' under that name.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,214

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Net-Approval On:

    Immigration: -23%
    Venezuela: -24%
    Foreign Policy: -24%
    Economy: -25%

    AP-NORC / Jan 11, 2026

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2011472449682956562

    Underwater.
    Time to choose between the shark and being eletrocuted.
    "The great white. It's great. And it's white...."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,491

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Net-Approval On:

    Immigration: -23%
    Venezuela: -24%
    Foreign Policy: -24%
    Economy: -25%

    AP-NORC / Jan 11, 2026

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2011472449682956562

    Underwater.
    Time to choose between the shark and being eletrocuted.
    Or surround every polling station with ICE thugs.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,579
    tlg86 said:

    After the massive success of Celebrity Traitors, I fear the BBC may be destroying the brand with the latest regular series. Utter shite.

    Are you kidding me? The new series is utterly insane, I am loving it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Bad day for Russia in Ukraine - 1150 men, 84 pieces of artillery no longer reporting for duty...

    Oh, and a record 8 MLRs.

    Four dodgy oil ships hit in the Black Sea as well.

    Russian deaths in the last couple of months are higher than the recruitment rate, their army is slowly but surely being dismantled.

    Have to LOL at Russians saying that there’s fewer of their tanks being destroyed. Da, it’s true, but only because they have almost no tanks left to field.
    But your man Trump is blaming Zelensky again for the war not ending.
    Sadly, as long as Putin and those around him are willing to feed the meat-grinder, Ukraine is not winning. Both sides are doing a reasonable job of isolating the war from most of their people.
    This is to misunderstand the nature of war for at least the last century.

    Russia's recent [limited] battlefield success is more due to them improving the number of FPV drones deployed and the quality of the operators using them, rather than simply by flooding the battlefield with bodies. The support they've received from China in terms of drones and components has been crucial in this regard, and is much overlooked when there's an emphasis on soldier numbers.

    The ability of the Russians to learn and improve their fighting methods has been much underestimated.
    They’re still losing more than a thousand men every day. They can’t keep that death rate forever, which is why they’re going to lose the war.
    I don't know about that. Back in 2022 would you have expected Russia to still be fighting after losing over a million men in their 3-day SMO? (Bearing in mind 10,000 dead Russians were enough to lead to Russian defeat in Afghanistan.)

    If Russia is defeated I don't think it will be because they've run out of people to stand in the front line. It will be because Ukraine has been able to destroy the logistics that keeps those men supplied with fuel, drones and ammunition. Or because Ukraine has destroyed the oil infrastructure that funds the production of drones and ammunition.

    It's why I think the European strategy of supporting Ukraine to stay in the fight, "for as long as it takes," presumably for Russia to become exhausted and choose to stop the war, has been mistaken. To end the war with anything other than a Ukrainian defeat it is necessary to destroy Russia's ability to fight the war, by hitting its oil infrastructure and war production, not by killing its soldiers in defensive battles in the Donbas. And somehow convincing China not to step in and provide Russia with the means to keep fighting.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,010
    "The Caledonian Sleeper Now Stops at Birmingham
    Geoff Marshall"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnBiosOsP8E
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,290
    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    I have sacked Robert Jenrick from the Shadow Cabinet, removed the whip and suspended his party membership with immediate effect.

    I was presented with clear, irrefutable evidence that he was plotting in secret to defect in a way designed to be as damaging as possible to his Shadow Cabinet colleagues and the wider Conservative Party.

    The British public are tired of political psychodrama and so am I. They saw too much of it in the last government, they’re seeing too much of it in THIS government.

    I will not repeat those mistakes.

    Hmm.
    Will Farage welcome ambitious Bob with his lean and hungry look?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709
    edited 11:12AM

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Iran is yet another example of people being murdered in the name of religion. Since time immemorial, religion has been the cause of most deaths. This won’t change until all religions are entirely abolished.

    For a counter argument, though the anti religion case is so thin it is hardly needed,


    https://apholt.com/2023/01/03/the-myth-of-religion-as-the-cause-of-most-wars/#:~:text=Steven Pinker has provided his,reviewed 2011 book, Better Angels.


    As humanists remind us and need reminding, humans cause wars.
    It is fundamentalists that are the problem, whether religious, communists or nationalists. But religion does make fundamentalism more likely, and therefore war more likely.
    War requires the dehumanisation of your enemy so that your soldiers are able to kill them without guilt. Religion can aid dehumanisation by allowing you to portray the enemy as unbelievers and therefore not properly human. You are not murdering; you are doing God's work.
    Religion can certainly be used to dehumanise others. But plenty of non-religious causes of dehumanisation exist.
    Indeed. Race and culture are also used. They don't look like us and eat like us, so they aren't properly human.
    Especially if their skin colour is different.
    Ironically, in ww2 the Nazis were largely unconcerned with skin colour whereas the Americans were segregated along racial lines.
    Probably more accurate to say that skin colour was a secondary racial issue for the Nazis. They banned Jazz (Negermusik) because of its black and Jewish elements, a perfect synthesis of degeneracy for those lads.
    Mind you, Alfred Einstein described jazz as "the most disgusting treason against all civilized music" in the '20s, and he was German-Jewish...
    Mr. B2, while some jazz is... passable, I've heard some bloody offensive 'music' under that name.
    Speaking of dehumanising the enemy, YouTube (which must be reading pb over my shoulder – all those tracking cookies!) has just served up 45 seconds of Michael Caine talking to Parky on just that topic:-

    Michael Caine on the Insane Orders He Refused in Korea
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xW1s3vTCwjc

    ETA dehumanising language maybe nsfw which is the point.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,117
    War breaks out where you least expect it.
    Not Iran, but the Tory Party.
    Popcorn shortage.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,572

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    I have sacked Robert Jenrick from the Shadow Cabinet, removed the whip and suspended his party membership with immediate effect.

    I was presented with clear, irrefutable evidence that he was plotting in secret to defect in a way designed to be as damaging as possible to his Shadow Cabinet colleagues and the wider Conservative Party.

    The British public are tired of political psychodrama and so am I. They saw too much of it in the last government, they’re seeing too much of it in THIS government.

    I will not repeat those mistakes.

    Hmm.
    Will Farage welcome ambitious Bob with his lean and hungry look?
    Does the Pope wear a funny hat?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,647
    Kemi sacks Robert Jenrick
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835
    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    I have sacked Robert Jenrick from the Shadow Cabinet, removed the whip and suspended his party membership with immediate effect.

    I was presented with clear, irrefutable evidence that he was plotting in secret to defect in a way designed to be as damaging as possible to his Shadow Cabinet colleagues and the wider Conservative Party.

    The British public are tired of political psychodrama and so am I. They saw too much of it in the last government, they’re seeing too much of it in THIS government.

    I will not repeat those mistakes.

    Badenoch doesn't have a flawless record when it comes to evidence of wrongdoing. Didn't she make a fool of herself over the Reform membership tracker?

    I think I'd like to see some of this evidence.

    But, still, time for a new thread I guess.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,819
    Andy_JS said:

    "The Caledonian Sleeper Now Stops at Birmingham
    Geoff Marshall"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnBiosOsP8E

    That's a Birmingham station I haven't heard of
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,437
    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    I have sacked Robert Jenrick from the Shadow Cabinet, removed the whip and suspended his party membership with immediate effect.

    I was presented with clear, irrefutable evidence that he was plotting in secret to defect in a way designed to be as damaging as possible to his Shadow Cabinet colleagues and the wider Conservative Party.

    The British public are tired of political psychodrama and so am I. They saw too much of it in the last government, they’re seeing too much of it in THIS government.

    I will not repeat those mistakes.

    She has done well there to get ahead of the story. And good for Tory electoral prospects, without the likes of Jenrick they can win back plenty of disgruntled centrists if they become more sensible by 2028/9.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,290
    Lol, SLab have been comforting themselves with the idea that it's Starmer's unpopularity that's the problem, if only lovely Anas was allowed to get on with it.

    https://x.com/HolyroodSources/status/2011716578342306028?s=20
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,647
    She’s sacked him as she’s discovered evidence he was about to defect.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,894
    edited 11:16AM
    I can't remember whether I bet on this somewhere, or not? The defection, assuming that's now inevitable
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,572
    @lukemcgee.bsky.social‬

    Good work by Badenoch getting ahead of it. It takes the sting out of any defection, makes him look like a bit of a twat and sends a message to others considering the same.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,117
    I know it really isn't the pertinent issue at hand...
    But that is a truly awful photo.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,437

    She’s sacked him as she’s discovered evidence he was about to defect.

    No surprise, he has been defective his whole career.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,117
    There is a Westminster Reform presser with no known topic slated for this affy.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835
    edited 11:21AM
    dixiedean said:

    I know it really isn't the pertinent issue at hand...
    But that is a truly awful photo.
    It's a still from a video. Not form the start or from the end. So I have to applaud TSE for finding an unfavourable still of Kemi from somewhere in the middle.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,597
    Jenrick. Piss funny if Farage now says no.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,928
    Scott_xP said:

    @lukemcgee.bsky.social‬

    Good work by Badenoch getting ahead of it. It takes the sting out of any defection, makes him look like a bit of a twat and sends a message to others considering the same.

    And Nothing Of Value Has Been Lost
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,064

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Bad day for Russia in Ukraine - 1150 men, 84 pieces of artillery no longer reporting for duty...

    Oh, and a record 8 MLRs.

    Four dodgy oil ships hit in the Black Sea as well.

    Russian deaths in the last couple of months are higher than the recruitment rate, their army is slowly but surely being dismantled.

    Have to LOL at Russians saying that there’s fewer of their tanks being destroyed. Da, it’s true, but only because they have almost no tanks left to field.
    But your man Trump is blaming Zelensky again for the war not ending.
    Sadly, as long as Putin and those around him are willing to feed the meat-grinder, Ukraine is not winning. Both sides are doing a reasonable job of isolating the war from most of their people.
    This is to misunderstand the nature of war for at least the last century.

    Russia's recent [limited] battlefield success is more due to them improving the number of FPV drones deployed and the quality of the operators using them, rather than simply by flooding the battlefield with bodies. The support they've received from China in terms of drones and components has been crucial in this regard, and is much overlooked when there's an emphasis on soldier numbers.

    The ability of the Russians to learn and improve their fighting methods has been much underestimated.
    When Belousov took over from Shoigu he centralised all drone technology and doctrine development into the "Rubikon" unit in Moscow. This took a while to produce results but the improved technology (FPV/fiber-optic) and tactics (concentrating on killing Ukraine drone operators and disrupting logistics) is starting to show results.

    He also gave them a kewl logo that looks like it's off a gaming mouse mat. This essential for social media heft in the SMO. The Russians were on a bit of a clout drought up to the middle of 2025.



    Ultra approved CIA funded source on Rubikon...
    https://www.svoboda.org/a/tayna-rubikona-bpla-spetsnaz-v-parke-patriot-/33531165.html
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,255

    Jenrick. Piss funny if Farage now says no.

    The last MRP released had Newark as a Ref gain.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,572
    @kitty_donaldson

    Tory source on Robert Jenrick defection: "He never laid down the guns and now he has shot himself in the foot"

    Aides to Jenrick left evidence lying around in a very "careless" way which made its way back to Kemi Badenoch
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: Bad day for Russia in Ukraine - 1150 men, 84 pieces of artillery no longer reporting for duty...

    Oh, and a record 8 MLRs.

    Four dodgy oil ships hit in the Black Sea as well.

    Russian deaths in the last couple of months are higher than the recruitment rate, their army is slowly but surely being dismantled.

    Have to LOL at Russians saying that there’s fewer of their tanks being destroyed. Da, it’s true, but only because they have almost no tanks left to field.
    But your man Trump is blaming Zelensky again for the war not ending.
    Sadly, as long as Putin and those around him are willing to feed the meat-grinder, Ukraine is not winning. Both sides are doing a reasonable job of isolating the war from most of their people.
    This is to misunderstand the nature of war for at least the last century.

    Russia's recent [limited] battlefield success is more due to them improving the number of FPV drones deployed and the quality of the operators using them, rather than simply by flooding the battlefield with bodies. The support they've received from China in terms of drones and components has been crucial in this regard, and is much overlooked when there's an emphasis on soldier numbers.

    The ability of the Russians to learn and improve their fighting methods has been much underestimated.
    When Belousov took over from Shoigu he centralised all drone technology and doctrine development into the "Rubikon" unit in Moscow. This took a while to produce results but the improved technology (FPV/fiber-optic) and tactics (concentrating on killing Ukraine drone operators and disrupting logistics) is starting to show results.

    He also gave them a kewl logo that looks like it's off a gaming mouse mat. This essential for social media heft in the SMO. The Russians were on a bit of a clout drought up to the middle of 2025.



    Ultra approved CIA funded source on Rubikon...
    https://www.svoboda.org/a/tayna-rubikona-bpla-spetsnaz-v-parke-patriot-/33531165.html
    Yes, Rubikon are much mentioned in this regard. They were involved in the rapid final defeat of the Ukrainian occupation of part of Kursk oblast.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,231
    Shows the limits of possible Ref-Con cooperation.

    In push comes to shove in 2029, I'm sure a deal to form a stable government will be done.

    But reduced aggression before and during the election... Nah. Even if it makes sense policy-wise, the personal stuff will likely be toxic for a cycle or two.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,709

    I think Kemi Badenoch is talking shite, there’s absolutely no way a Cambridge gentleman would secretly betray and undermine and then defect in the most damaging way.

    A Cambridge-educated lawyer, no less. Of course, the real questions are who leaked and whether Kemi has a mole in the Reform camp.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,835

    Shows the limits of possible Ref-Con cooperation.

    In push comes to shove in 2029, I'm sure a deal to form a stable government will be done.

    But reduced aggression before and during the election... Nah. Even if it makes sense policy-wise, the personal stuff will likely be toxic for a cycle or two.

    We are at the stage where the two parties are in a struggle to see which is the senior member of a coalition, and which can dictate terms in terms of an electoral pact. They both have more to gain by letting the voters decide, than by conceding to the other.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,117
    edited 11:33AM
    Scott_xP said:

    @lukemcgee.bsky.social‬

    Good work by Badenoch getting ahead of it. It takes the sting out of any defection, makes him look like a bit of a twat and sends a message to others considering the same.

    She's well and truly painted over his mural.
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