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Wipeout in Wales – could Labour get 0 seats in the Senedd? – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,224
    Almost four in ten Republicans have a soul.

    "Do you think the ICE agent was justified or not justified in the amount of force he used in shooting the woman in Minneapolis?"

    All:
    Not justified: 53%
    Justified: 28%

    Those who say justified:
    Republicans: 61%
    Independents: 20%
    Democrats: 4%

    YouGov / January 11, 2026

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2010854163375407366
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,189

    Great analysis in the thread. Single figures in terms of seats seems nailed on for Labour in Wales, and Starmer won't survive that combined with horrible results in the rest of the UK.

    And a reminder, you can still get odds of 4/5 that Starmer will be gone by the end of 2026. An absolute bargain. Basically a return of 80% for tying cash up for no more than 6-7 months.

    But it requires him to "do the decent thing". Which is where the risk lies...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787
    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,529
    @bruceandy.bsky.social‬

    Sexy gilts news today! 🫦

    Strongest demand seen for a gilt auction since DMO records began in 1998.

    Britain sold £900 million of an index-linked gilt due in 2035 and received orders worth £4.333 billion - the highest such ratio (4.81) seen in at least 27 years.

    https://bsky.app/profile/bruceandy.bsky.social/post/3mcceh5ke6c2q
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,189

    More good news on the transition away from fossil fuels.

    Coal power generation fell in China and India for the first time since 1973.. electricity generated by coal plants fell by 1.6% in China and by 3% in India last year, after the boom in clean energy across both countries was more than enough to meet their rising demand for energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jan/13/coal-power-generation-falls-china-india-since-1970s

    Maybe it's a blip, but if renewables continue to come down in price and expand at a greater rate, then it's possible this could accelerate soon.

    China covering the Gobi desert in renewables will help:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I53syuTUHtg
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:


    @jaheale.bsky.social‬

    Ed Davey says he’d take Donald Trump more seriously on murdering protesters in Iran if he stopped murdering protestors in Minnesota

    Point of order! There's no evidence she was a protestor
    There appears to be some evidence, if inconclusive
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,466
    Scott_xP said:

    @bruceandy.bsky.social‬

    Sexy gilts news today! 🫦

    Strongest demand seen for a gilt auction since DMO records began in 1998.

    Britain sold £900 million of an index-linked gilt due in 2035 and received orders worth £4.333 billion - the highest such ratio (4.81) seen in at least 27 years.

    https://bsky.app/profile/bruceandy.bsky.social/post/3mcceh5ke6c2q

    Flight to safety?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,189
    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    Was it drummed in to you not to call him TomTom?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,284
    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    On-topic, the question for Plaid is whether they are still held back by their cultural baggage, or has the language issue faded now that road signs, schools and S4C speak Welsh?

    Based on current polling Plaid are expected to win at least one seat in each of the 16 polling disticts -they are still strongest in the 4 Fro Gymraeg seats, but they now represent all of Wales.
    Based on detailed observations over the last six months, I am genuinely surprised at the number of yummy mummies in suburban Cardiff coffee shops speaking Welsh.
    Did they stay hot when you shoved your oer in?

    (This is an epically awesome pun but only about three people will get it.)
    Saesneg yw'r iaith orau yn y byd.

    (mae'n rhedeg ac yn cuddio)
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    Really?

    Nobody hates Trump more than me, but that's a very old tactic and I've never heard a suggestion it was illegal before.

    Here's one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    I don't know the details, that said.
    I think there's a legal distinction between perfidy and allowable ruses of war ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:
    The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.
    Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts that are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation...


    In any event, the story sounds a bit thin.
    The naval convention is that it is OK to sail under false colours but you would run up your true ones immediately before making an attack. In addition, you could say that Q-ships were acting defensively, as the idea was to lure the u-boat into making a surface attack. It has only been recently that merchantmen have generally been unarmed. So if you attack a ship and it turns out to be better armed than you expected, tough titty.

    I have never understood why Q-ships have not been used against Somali pirates (and other modern pirates of different ethnicities, I would not want to be thought racist!)
    The point about Q ships was surely that they were in any event targets of war, otherwise there would be no point to them, and therefore their hidden weaponry amounted to a perfectly legal ruse of war.

    Your flag thing is more questionable. Perfidious Albion ?
    Nope, the historic laws of war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    "The general idea and legal framework for the Q-ship derives from the classic ruse de guerre of "sailing under false colours". As a long standing element of naval tactics, warships may legally disguise themselves in various ways in transit so long as the proper flags are hoisted before firing commences. Numerous examples exist of the tactic, which is used both defensively and offensively.
    Examples of the tactic used against commerce raiders are HMS Kingfisher in the 1670s and French disguised brigs during the French Revolutionary Wars. An example of the latter was beaten back by the privateer lugger Vulture out of Jersey."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302
    edited 11:59AM
    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    I know that's a negative paraphrase, but it's sadly close enough. Never let an opportunity go.

    (I'm sure she is very against what Iran is doing, but her main concern appears to be linking the issue to other ones she cares more about)
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The propaganda gets steadily more extreme.

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2010776411942932828
    FOX NEWS: The officer involved in the Minneapolis shooting -- does the president stand fully behind him? Does he think his action were justified?

    LEAVITT: Absolutely. President Trump was right about this all along. This deranged lunatic woman was trying to ram him over with her vehicle.

    Why was Karoline Leavitt trying to ram an ICE officer over with her vehicle?
    MAGA needs a Horst Wessel, I am wondering when they will sacrifice someone. Upping the tension helps as it increases the likelihood of Ice being badly handled on the protest line

    (If Charlie Kirk was their Heydrich, it was too soon)
    See my 8:39 post.
    Hmm, so the mere existence of anti-ICE protests tends to skew people towards "law and order".
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,487
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    I know that's a negative paraphrase, but it's sadly close enough. Never let an opportunity go.
    Interestingly her main (Conservative) opponent for Coventry South (2019, 2024 PPC) is Mattie Heaven who is Iranian British and wants to see the regime gone yesterday.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,832
    edited 12:03PM

    Great analysis in the thread. Single figures in terms of seats seems nailed on for Labour in Wales, and Starmer won't survive that combined with horrible results in the rest of the UK.

    And a reminder, you can still get odds of 4/5 that Starmer will be gone by the end of 2026. An absolute bargain. Basically a return of 80% for tying cash up for no more than 6-7 months.

    But it requires him to "do the decent thing". Which is where the risk lies...
    No it doesn't. If he doesn't fall on his sword (which is a possibility), a challenger requires the support of 20% of Labour MPs to initiate a contest. Easily reached in the current context. A contest would have been initiated already but for the fact that potential successors don't want to be used as a scapegoat for lousy May results.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302
    Foss said:

    Votes at 16 seemed to go quiet after it looked like the younger vote was going to swing massively Green.

    It'll happen, i think enough support the principle and it should be simple, but i doubt its a priority.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,671
    Uncovered: Secret room beneath Chinese embassy that poses threat to City
    Telegraph obtains unredacted plans showing how close the underground complex will come to cables carrying sensitive British financial data

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/37d466de60bc0a63

    Gift link so not paywalled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302
    Scott_xP said:

    @bruceandy.bsky.social‬

    Sexy gilts news today! 🫦

    Strongest demand seen for a gilt auction since DMO records began in 1998.

    Britain sold £900 million of an index-linked gilt due in 2035 and received orders worth £4.333 billion - the highest such ratio (4.81) seen in at least 27 years.

    https://bsky.app/profile/bruceandy.bsky.social/post/3mcceh5ke6c2q

    That's...good? Bad?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    Was it drummed in to you not to call him TomTom?
    They hadn't been invented yet
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,091
    kle4 said:

    Foss said:

    Votes at 16 seemed to go quiet after it looked like the younger vote was going to swing massively Green.

    It'll happen, i think enough support the principle and it should be simple, but i doubt its a priority.
    Won't happen if it's not prioritised. Labour are being obstructed by the HoL, HoL Reform should have been their top priority if they want to get their other manifesto pledges through
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,487
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bruceandy.bsky.social‬

    Sexy gilts news today! 🫦

    Strongest demand seen for a gilt auction since DMO records began in 1998.

    Britain sold £900 million of an index-linked gilt due in 2035 and received orders worth £4.333 billion - the highest such ratio (4.81) seen in at least 27 years.

    https://bsky.app/profile/bruceandy.bsky.social/post/3mcceh5ke6c2q

    That's...good? Bad?
    My parents recently cashed a pension, mentioned that they had got a decent index linked annuity, on top of a strong(ish) final furlong for their investments.
    The story is good news tbh.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,224
    edited 12:10PM
    .

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    Really?

    Nobody hates Trump more than me, but that's a very old tactic and I've never heard a suggestion it was illegal before.

    Here's one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    I don't know the details, that said.
    I think there's a legal distinction between perfidy and allowable ruses of war ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:
    The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.
    Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts that are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation...


    In any event, the story sounds a bit thin.
    The naval convention is that it is OK to sail under false colours but you would run up your true ones immediately before making an attack. In addition, you could say that Q-ships were acting defensively, as the idea was to lure the u-boat into making a surface attack. It has only been recently that merchantmen have generally been unarmed. So if you attack a ship and it turns out to be better armed than you expected, tough titty.

    I have never understood why Q-ships have not been used against Somali pirates (and other modern pirates of different ethnicities, I would not want to be thought racist!)
    The point about Q ships was surely that they were in any event targets of war, otherwise there would be no point to them, and therefore their hidden weaponry amounted to a perfectly legal ruse of war.

    Your flag thing is more questionable. Perfidious Albion ?
    Nope, the historic laws of war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    "The general idea and legal framework for the Q-ship derives from the classic ruse de guerre of "sailing under false colours". As a long standing element of naval tactics, warships may legally disguise themselves in various ways in transit so long as the proper flags are hoisted before firing commences. Numerous examples exist of the tactic, which is used both defensively and offensively.
    Examples of the tactic used against commerce raiders are HMS Kingfisher in the 1670s and French disguised brigs during the French Revolutionary Wars. An example of the latter was beaten back by the privateer lugger Vulture out of Jersey."
    Re-read the Geneva convention, though.

    You're talking about historic practice, and it's true to say the stuff about the colours likely inspired the Q-ship concept; I'm saying that a Q-ship would be entirely legal under the current laws of war, since they were targeted at U-boats which were sinking civilian shipping (and similarly today, with Somali pirates).

    And that the flag business in general would be rather more questionable, depending on the precise circumstances.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302
    Dopermean said:

    kle4 said:

    Foss said:

    Votes at 16 seemed to go quiet after it looked like the younger vote was going to swing massively Green.

    It'll happen, i think enough support the principle and it should be simple, but i doubt its a priority.
    Won't happen if it's not prioritised. Labour are being obstructed by the HoL, HoL Reform should have been their top priority if they want to get their other manifesto pledges through
    I won't repeat my own very sensible and very simple HoL reform proposals which they could have done, but it would be very very funny if the 'tenporary' hereditary peers situation was still with us by end if the term.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,076

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    That is not a fair summary of what Sultana said. Her tweet begins:

    "The images of body bags leave no doubt about the brutality of Iran’s repression, and a communications blackout is indefensible."
    It goes downhill after that.
    It does, but it's nothing as bad as Sandpit's summary. I have little respect for Sultana, but let's be fair to what she actually said.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,284
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    Was it drummed in to you not to call him TomTom?
    They hadn't been invented yet
    Don't forget the anti-Taliban Afghan politician Dr. Abdullah Abdullah!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,262

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The propaganda gets steadily more extreme.

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2010776411942932828
    FOX NEWS: The officer involved in the Minneapolis shooting -- does the president stand fully behind him? Does he think his action were justified?

    LEAVITT: Absolutely. President Trump was right about this all along. This deranged lunatic woman was trying to ram him over with her vehicle.

    Why was Karoline Leavitt trying to ram an ICE officer over with her vehicle?
    MAGA needs a Horst Wessel, I am wondering when they will sacrifice someone. Upping the tension helps as it increases the likelihood of Ice being badly handled on the protest line

    (If Charlie Kirk was their Heydrich, it was too soon)
    Is the Bella 1 their borscht vessel?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,302

    Uncovered: Secret room beneath Chinese embassy that poses threat to City
    Telegraph obtains unredacted plans showing how close the underground complex will come to cables carrying sensitive British financial data

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/37d466de60bc0a63

    Gift link so not paywalled.

    Brilliant. A Secret Room that isn't so secret any more.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787
    Talking about the BBC (which no one was) Victoria Derbyshire is now about as good as they've got. I've only seen her on Newsnight but she's very impressive. Last night Matthew Syed was lauding Trump as he does and his excellent performance in taking out Maduro without a single death. "What about the 50 Cubans?" She asked. "Don't they count?"

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,262
    Roger said:

    Talking about the BBC (which no one was) Victoria Derbyshire is now about as good as they've got. I've only seen her on Newsnight but she's very impressive. Last night Matthew Syed was lauding Trump as he does and his excellent performance in taking out Maduro without a single death. "What about the 50 Cubans?" She asked. "Don't they count?"

    The only time Syed surprises is when he doesn't mention his ping pong career.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,225

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    That is not a fair summary of what Sultana said. Her tweet begins:

    "The images of body bags leave no doubt about the brutality of Iran’s repression, and a communications blackout is indefensible."
    It goes downhill after that.
    It does, but it's nothing as bad as Sandpit's summary. I have little respect for Sultana, but let's be fair to what she actually said.
    It’s hardly my fault she’s tone deaf, is getting monstered and ratioed in her own comments.

    I’m not an MP, I’m just an idiot with a keyboard about a hundred miles from Iran.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,076
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The BBC are to seek dismissal of Trump's defamation claim on the basis of lack of jurisdiction, lack of any relevant averments of loss and misstatements on where the documentary was shown. I would have thought that the first is most likely to succeed at this stage. It really is not clear on what basis Florida has jurisdiction over a program shown in the UK by an organisation which has no footprint there.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c394x4z8kpdo

    Is that jurisdiction argument there not awfully similar to those used by Americans to sue for libel in London previously?

    Trump won’t sue in London, of course, because of limited damages the court could award.

    So it’s going nowhere, but should be a massively embarrassing episode for a Corporation that used to pride itself on journalistic integrity, has cost two senior executives their jobs, and should be a wake-up call for the BBC in future.
    Trump won't sue in London because the case has already timed out in UK law!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,445

    ydoethur said:

    Penddu2 said:

    On-topic, the question for Plaid is whether they are still held back by their cultural baggage, or has the language issue faded now that road signs, schools and S4C speak Welsh?

    Based on current polling Plaid are expected to win at least one seat in each of the 16 polling disticts -they are still strongest in the 4 Fro Gymraeg seats, but they now represent all of Wales.
    Based on detailed observations over the last six months, I am genuinely surprised at the number of yummy mummies in suburban Cardiff coffee shops speaking Welsh.
    Did they stay hot when you shoved your oer in?

    (This is an epically awesome pun but only about three people will get it.)
    Saesneg yw'r iaith orau yn y byd.

    (mae'n rhedeg ac yn cuddio)
    One of the most useful, to be fair.

    (Declaration; three of my grandchildren are bilingual .... English - Thai ..... but the eldest two are either at or considering English - (Well, Australian) speaking universities.)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,445

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The BBC are to seek dismissal of Trump's defamation claim on the basis of lack of jurisdiction, lack of any relevant averments of loss and misstatements on where the documentary was shown. I would have thought that the first is most likely to succeed at this stage. It really is not clear on what basis Florida has jurisdiction over a program shown in the UK by an organisation which has no footprint there.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c394x4z8kpdo

    Is that jurisdiction argument there not awfully similar to those used by Americans to sue for libel in London previously?

    Trump won’t sue in London, of course, because of limited damages the court could award.

    So it’s going nowhere, but should be a massively embarrassing episode for a Corporation that used to pride itself on journalistic integrity, has cost two senior executives their jobs, and should be a wake-up call for the BBC in future.
    Trump won't sue in London because the case has already timed out in UK law!
    Me might have won, been awarded 1p damages and no order as to costs.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,283
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    Air Force One looks a bit like a civilian plane, but it’s also heavily armed.

    They were likely looking at a P-8 Poseidon, which bears something of a resemblance to a civvy 737.

    https://x.com/tiedyeintel/status/2010886441052889491
    Air Force One has two USAF roundels on it (on the back near the tail)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,439

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    Was it drummed in to you not to call him TomTom?
    Perhaps Mr Thomas Snr was a piper

  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,682

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    Really?

    Nobody hates Trump more than me, but that's a very old tactic and I've never heard a suggestion it was illegal before.

    Here's one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    I don't know the details, that said.
    I think there's a legal distinction between perfidy and allowable ruses of war ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:
    The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.
    Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts that are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation...


    In any event, the story sounds a bit thin.
    The naval convention is that it is OK to sail under false colours but you would run up your true ones immediately before making an attack. In addition, you could say that Q-ships were acting defensively, as the idea was to lure the u-boat into making a surface attack. It has only been recently that merchantmen have generally been unarmed. So if you attack a ship and it turns out to be better armed than you expected, tough titty.

    I have never understood why Q-ships have not been used against Somali pirates (and other modern pirates of different ethnicities, I would not want to be thought racist!)
    The point about Q ships was surely that they were in any event targets of war, otherwise there would be no point to them, and therefore their hidden weaponry amounted to a perfectly legal ruse of war.

    Your flag thing is more questionable. Perfidious Albion ?
    Nope, the historic laws of war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    "The general idea and legal framework for the Q-ship derives from the classic ruse de guerre of "sailing under false colours". As a long standing element of naval tactics, warships may legally disguise themselves in various ways in transit so long as the proper flags are hoisted before firing commences. Numerous examples exist of the tactic, which is used both defensively and offensively.
    Examples of the tactic used against commerce raiders are HMS Kingfisher in the 1670s and French disguised brigs during the French Revolutionary Wars. An example of the latter was beaten back by the privateer lugger Vulture out of Jersey."
    China is potentially hinting at that direction, having recently exhibited very publicly a container ship fitted out with weapon installations in freight containers.

    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/12/container-ship-turned-missile-battery-spotted-in-china/

    (This is in part trolling the USA, because whilst the USA has a crippled naval shipbuilding sector and a procurement process which is a series of black holes, their civilian shipbuilding sector essentially hardly exists at all.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,682
    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    At University we had a Douglas McDonnell.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,262
    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,224
    edited 12:36PM
    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    At University we had a Douglas McDonnell.
    No Martin Lockheed ?


    (Almost certainly no Galactic Virgins.)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,032

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Nice that they are giving employment though to teenage boys in their bedrooms to make their tweet images.

    Not sure why they have stuck a Vulcan in the picture but nice to see.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,651
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    I know that's a negative paraphrase, but it's sadly close enough. Never let an opportunity go.

    (I'm sure she is very against what Iran is doing, but her main concern appears to be linking the issue to other ones she cares more about)
    And yet (if you believe they are not bots) there are UK posters, including blue ticked NHS doctors, that think this post means she's sold out, that this is all a Mossad operation, and the body bags aren't necessarily civilians.
    https://x.com/doctor_rahmeh

    On the one hand, we should pull the plug on X, and on the other hand, it does allow trash to show itself.

    It really is a cesspit.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The propaganda gets steadily more extreme.

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2010776411942932828
    FOX NEWS: The officer involved in the Minneapolis shooting -- does the president stand fully behind him? Does he think his action were justified?

    LEAVITT: Absolutely. President Trump was right about this all along. This deranged lunatic woman was trying to ram him over with her vehicle.

    Why was Karoline Leavitt trying to ram an ICE officer over with her vehicle?
    MAGA needs a Horst Wessel, I am wondering when they will sacrifice someone. Upping the tension helps as it increases the likelihood of Ice being badly handled on the protest line

    (If Charlie Kirk was their Heydrich, it was too soon)
    Is the Bella 1 their borscht vessel?
    FFS only Americans spell it bors(c)ht. It's borsch or borshch (I tend to prefer the latter as it's борщ in Cyrillic)
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,651
    boulay said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Nice that they are giving employment though to teenage boys in their bedrooms to make their tweet images.

    Not sure why they have stuck a Vulcan in the picture but nice to see.
    I'm not sure it is a Vulcan. It might actually be a Russian Shaheed drone.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,942
    Sandpit said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Are they planning on bombing the Falklands with that Vulcan?

    Government by AI slop.
    Is that a fancy dress Terminator on that horse?
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,239

    boulay said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Nice that they are giving employment though to teenage boys in their bedrooms to make their tweet images.

    Not sure why they have stuck a Vulcan in the picture but nice to see.
    I'm not sure it is a Vulcan. It might actually be a Russian Shaheed drone.
    I wonder which brand of Chinese drone those quadcopters will turn out to be...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,115

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Bit cheeky them taking credit for the Vulcan.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    Really?

    Nobody hates Trump more than me, but that's a very old tactic and I've never heard a suggestion it was illegal before.

    Here's one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    I don't know the details, that said.
    I think there's a legal distinction between perfidy and allowable ruses of war ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:
    The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.
    Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts that are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation...


    In any event, the story sounds a bit thin.
    The naval convention is that it is OK to sail under false colours but you would run up your true ones immediately before making an attack. In addition, you could say that Q-ships were acting defensively, as the idea was to lure the u-boat into making a surface attack. It has only been recently that merchantmen have generally been unarmed. So if you attack a ship and it turns out to be better armed than you expected, tough titty.

    I have never understood why Q-ships have not been used against Somali pirates (and other modern pirates of different ethnicities, I would not want to be thought racist!)
    The point about Q ships was surely that they were in any event targets of war, otherwise there would be no point to them, and therefore their hidden weaponry amounted to a perfectly legal ruse of war.

    Your flag thing is more questionable. Perfidious Albion ?
    Nope, the historic laws of war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    "The general idea and legal framework for the Q-ship derives from the classic ruse de guerre of "sailing under false colours". As a long standing element of naval tactics, warships may legally disguise themselves in various ways in transit so long as the proper flags are hoisted before firing commences. Numerous examples exist of the tactic, which is used both defensively and offensively.
    Examples of the tactic used against commerce raiders are HMS Kingfisher in the 1670s and French disguised brigs during the French Revolutionary Wars. An example of the latter was beaten back by the privateer lugger Vulture out of Jersey."
    China is potentially hinting at that direction, having recently exhibited very publicly a container ship fitted out with weapon installations in freight containers.

    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/12/container-ship-turned-missile-battery-spotted-in-china/

    (This is in part trolling the USA, because whilst the USA has a crippled naval shipbuilding sector and a procurement process which is a series of black holes, their civilian shipbuilding sector essentially hardly exists at all.)
    America never ratified the Paris Declaration, so could troll back by issuing letters of marque
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,283

    boulay said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Nice that they are giving employment though to teenage boys in their bedrooms to make their tweet images.

    Not sure why they have stuck a Vulcan in the picture but nice to see.
    I'm not sure it is a Vulcan. It might actually be a Russian Shaheed drone.
    Yes. It's not a Vulcan
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,045
    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    This tweet is as stupid as anything produced in the Magaverse or by low effort Ukrainian pys-ops.

    So it's a war crime to ever release a weapon from an aircraft derived from a civilian design?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,224
    edited 12:52PM
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    This tweet is as stupid as anything produced in the Magaverse or by low effort Ukrainian pys-ops.

    So it's a war crime to ever release a weapon from an aircraft derived from a civilian design?
    I think the story says that it was painted in civilian colors, but I won't pay for an NYT subscription on principle, so I'm not sure.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,466
    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Are they planning on bombing the Falklands with that Vulcan?

    Government by AI slop.
    Is that a fancy dress Terminator on that horse?
    It's one of the ringwraiths.

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,651
    Foss said:

    boulay said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Nice that they are giving employment though to teenage boys in their bedrooms to make their tweet images.

    Not sure why they have stuck a Vulcan in the picture but nice to see.
    I'm not sure it is a Vulcan. It might actually be a Russian Shaheed drone.
    I wonder which brand of Chinese drone those quadcopters will turn out to be...
    DJI Mavic, although a bit wrong (it is AI after all).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,224

    Pro_Rata said:

    Sandpit said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Are they planning on bombing the Falklands with that Vulcan?

    Government by AI slop.
    Is that a fancy dress Terminator on that horse?
    It's one of the ringwraiths.

    Maccus from Pirates of the Caribbean.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,151
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    At University we had a Douglas McDonnell.
    No Martin Lockheed ?


    (Almost certainly no Galactic Virgins.)
    We had a lot of borings
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,151

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    I didn’t realise Zahawi wasn’t an MP anymore.

    The man who came last in Stratford-Upon-Avon in 2024 was called Neil O’Neil

    Quite appropriate on a thread about Wales. When I was at prep school there I had a boy in my class called Thomas Thomas. Aged nine I thought it must be a lack of imagination on the part of his parents. Later on I thought the opposite
    At University we had a Douglas McDonnell.
    No Martin Lockheed ?


    (Almost certainly no Galactic Virgins.)
    We had a lot of borings
    We also had a Kelvin Hall, no we weren't in Glasgow
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,592

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    So that's NOT Napoleon?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,045

    The Pakistani Thunder fighter jet air forces are lining up to buy
    After excelling in combat, the JF-17 flies off shelves, giving Islamabad’s export industry a major boost
    ...
    Low in cost, high in performance, the jets were tested in combat against India as the two nuclear powers went to war in May. The JF-17 excelled against India’s French-made Rafales, and now other countries are lining up to buy their own.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/01/13/pakistani-fighter-jet-air-forces-want-to-buy/ (£££)

    There was a very long analysis of what went on in AFM a few months ago. Old mate in the Rafale was tooling along with Spectra switched off thinking he was out of range at 200km+. The PAF, who are probably the world's best at BVR at the moment, cued a PL-15 "Invisible Touch" shot from an Erieye. The shootdown was by a J-10C NOT a JF-17 but it's only the Telegraph so what do you expect?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,306
    My more parochial concerns are about what is going to happen in Scotland. At the moment the SNP have 60 MSPs, just short of a majority. The Tories are next on 28 and Labour have 21, the Greens 7, the Lib Dems 5, Reform 1 and there are 6 "independent" members, most of whom have fallen out with their parties and are likely to lose their seats.

    The SNP have been in power for a very long time. They are painfully incompetent (spectacularly so when they allowed Green Ministers) and, in common with the rest of the UK, provide ever poorer services at ever greater cost. The hope had been that the SNP would lose something like 20 seats to Labour in the same kind of way as they did in the 2024 Westminster election and this would result in a minority Labour government, possibly in coalition with the Lib Dems and tacit Tory support.

    This now looks incredibly unlikely. Labour still, on current polling, have a slight swing in their favour from the last election and may gain a handful of seats but may well lose an equivalent number to Reform. The Tories will lose a significant number of seats, mainly to Reform but also possibly the odd one to the Lib Dems. The balance of power may well turn on how many seats Reform can take from the SNP.

    What I foresee at this point is that the SNP will remain the largest party but very probably short of a majority, even with their little Green helpers. Labour will be too far from a majority to form any sort of credible government, Reform will become a major player and the Tories will be somewhat diminished from their current peak. I really struggle to see any form of stable government out of this mess. Labour's unpopularity is seriously damaging to the Unionist cause and the prospects of a stable Unionist government over the next few years. It is, to put it politely, disappointing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,682

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    So that's NOT Napoleon?
    A new Demon Eyes advert.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,592
    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,682
    Dura_Ace said:

    The Pakistani Thunder fighter jet air forces are lining up to buy
    After excelling in combat, the JF-17 flies off shelves, giving Islamabad’s export industry a major boost
    ...
    Low in cost, high in performance, the jets were tested in combat against India as the two nuclear powers went to war in May. The JF-17 excelled against India’s French-made Rafales, and now other countries are lining up to buy their own.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/01/13/pakistani-fighter-jet-air-forces-want-to-buy/ (£££)

    There was a very long analysis of what went on in AFM a few months ago. Old mate in the Rafale was tooling along with Spectra switched off thinking he was out of range at 200km+. The PAF, who are probably the world's best at BVR at the moment, cued a PL-15 "Invisible Touch" shot from an Erieye. The shootdown was by a J-10C NOT a JF-17 but it's only the Telegraph so what do you expect?
    It's a Telegraph general correspondent not a beat correspondent, so I expect Not a Lot.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302
    edited 1:13PM
    DavidL said:

    My more parochial concerns are about what is going to happen in Scotland. At the moment the SNP have 60 MSPs, just short of a majority. The Tories are next on 28 and Labour have 21, the Greens 7, the Lib Dems 5, Reform 1 and there are 6 "independent" members, most of whom have fallen out with their parties and are likely to lose their seats.

    The SNP have been in power for a very long time. They are painfully incompetent (spectacularly so when they allowed Green Ministers) and, in common with the rest of the UK, provide ever poorer services at ever greater cost. The hope had been that the SNP would lose something like 20 seats to Labour in the same kind of way as they did in the 2024 Westminster election and this would result in a minority Labour government, possibly in coalition with the Lib Dems and tacit Tory support.

    This now looks incredibly unlikely. Labour still, on current polling, have a slight swing in their favour from the last election and may gain a handful of seats but may well lose an equivalent number to Reform. The Tories will lose a significant number of seats, mainly to Reform but also possibly the odd one to the Lib Dems. The balance of power may well turn on how many seats Reform can take from the SNP.

    What I foresee at this point is that the SNP will remain the largest party but very probably short of a majority, even with their little Green helpers. Labour will be too far from a majority to form any sort of credible government, Reform will become a major player and the Tories will be somewhat diminished from their current peak. I really struggle to see any form of stable government out of this mess. Labour's unpopularity is seriously damaging to the Unionist cause and the prospects of a stable Unionist government over the next few years. It is, to put it politely, disappointing.

    Labour probably expected to hold enough residual popularity long enough to leapfrog the SNP, but have missed that by a lot. Good thing for the SNP no real indy rivals i guess.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    I wonder if their enthusiasm for such things is because they are easy to investigate and prove. A lot of crime is neither.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bruceandy.bsky.social‬

    Sexy gilts news today! 🫦

    Strongest demand seen for a gilt auction since DMO records began in 1998.

    Britain sold £900 million of an index-linked gilt due in 2035 and received orders worth £4.333 billion - the highest such ratio (4.81) seen in at least 27 years.

    https://bsky.app/profile/bruceandy.bsky.social/post/3mcceh5ke6c2q

    Gilts booming. Equities booming. Nothing to do with Rachel Reeves of course. Only bad things are down to her.
    That's how it goes. Governments want credit for good things and not bad things, opponents want to blame it for bad things and say good things are in spite of not because of government.

    The public usually go with the latter.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,284

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    So that's NOT Napoleon?
    I thought it was George Washington. He has a lot to answer for :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,302
    Labour facing the wipeout in Wales, the slaughter in Scotland, and the, er, extinguishing in England?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,895
    kle4 said:

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    I wonder if their enthusiasm for such things is because they are easy to investigate and prove. A lot of crime is neither.
    Though you would have thought that thefts of items with tracking devices would have been a win for the police - if theres one stolen item at a location, there will probably me more.

    Instead, they are quite aggressive about telling you not to go to the location yourself - are refuse to go themselves.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,592
    kle4 said:

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    I wonder if their enthusiasm for such things is because they are easy to investigate and prove. A lot of crime is neither.
    Yep. I have no doubt that solving my crime would be massively challenging. There is likely some CCTV, but how good? The parts are gone to some dodgy back street operation or just sold for the metals within. It will not be solved, so why raise false hope? But the infuriating thing is the form, with all the nonsense about identity. I don't give a shit about that. I just want criminals caught and punished.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817
    kle4 said:

    Labour facing the wipeout in Wales, the slaughter in Scotland, and the, er, extinguishing in England?

    Technically sl- doesn't alliterate with sc-. Scotched in Scotland? Shat on in Scotland? (historically sh- was sc-). But any vowel alliterates with any other (as technically they all start with a glottal stop in English)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,002

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    Really?

    Nobody hates Trump more than me, but that's a very old tactic and I've never heard a suggestion it was illegal before.

    Here's one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    I don't know the details, that said.
    I think there's a legal distinction between perfidy and allowable ruses of war ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:
    The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.
    Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts that are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation...


    In any event, the story sounds a bit thin.
    The naval convention is that it is OK to sail under false colours but you would run up your true ones immediately before making an attack. In addition, you could say that Q-ships were acting defensively, as the idea was to lure the u-boat into making a surface attack. It has only been recently that merchantmen have generally been unarmed. So if you attack a ship and it turns out to be better armed than you expected, tough titty.

    I have never understood why Q-ships have not been used against Somali pirates (and other modern pirates of different ethnicities, I would not want to be thought racist!)
    Don't you think access to the office blocks where FoxNews are based might be an issue?
    Maybe a month in tropical sunshine has turned my brain to mush, but that went right over my head
    I was implying that modern pirates, e.g, FoxNews, don't sail the briny ocean...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,262

    kle4 said:

    Labour facing the wipeout in Wales, the slaughter in Scotland, and the, er, extinguishing in England?

    Technically sl- doesn't alliterate with sc-. Scotched in Scotland? Shat on in Scotland? (historically sh- was sc-). But any vowel alliterates with any other (as technically they all start with a glottal stop in English)
    Scorched.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,416
    DavidL said:

    My more parochial concerns are about what is going to happen in Scotland. At the moment the SNP have 60 MSPs, just short of a majority. The Tories are next on 28 and Labour have 21, the Greens 7, the Lib Dems 5, Reform 1 and there are 6 "independent" members, most of whom have fallen out with their parties and are likely to lose their seats.

    The SNP have been in power for a very long time. They are painfully incompetent (spectacularly so when they allowed Green Ministers) and, in common with the rest of the UK, provide ever poorer services at ever greater cost. The hope had been that the SNP would lose something like 20 seats to Labour in the same kind of way as they did in the 2024 Westminster election and this would result in a minority Labour government, possibly in coalition with the Lib Dems and tacit Tory support.

    This now looks incredibly unlikely. Labour still, on current polling, have a slight swing in their favour from the last election and may gain a handful of seats but may well lose an equivalent number to Reform. The Tories will lose a significant number of seats, mainly to Reform but also possibly the odd one to the Lib Dems. The balance of power may well turn on how many seats Reform can take from the SNP.

    What I foresee at this point is that the SNP will remain the largest party but very probably short of a majority, even with their little Green helpers. Labour will be too far from a majority to form any sort of credible government, Reform will become a major player and the Tories will be somewhat diminished from their current peak. I really struggle to see any form of stable government out of this mess. Labour's unpopularity is seriously damaging to the Unionist cause and the prospects of a stable Unionist government over the next few years. It is, to put it politely, disappointing.

    Sad to say, most likely outcome is a renewed SNP-Green coalition. Judging by the polling, the Greens will do well out of the list system with SNP voters transferring to them for the second party vote. Although SNP vote will be well down, they will likely continue to dominate constituencies due to split unionist vote.

    They will be facing a joke opposition if Reform emerge ahead of Labour, which seems likely.

    It was notable that Swinney was remarking that Ross Greer was one of his favourite non-SNP politicians recently. So you can forget any kind of pivot towards helping business or growing the economy. They will continue bulldozing Highland glens in the name of renewables.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,002
    kle4 said:

    Labour facing the wipeout in Wales, the slaughter in Scotland, and the, er, extinguishing in England?

    Endgame in England, perhaps?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817

    kle4 said:

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    I wonder if their enthusiasm for such things is because they are easy to investigate and prove. A lot of crime is neither.
    Though you would have thought that thefts of items with tracking devices would have been a win for the police - if theres one stolen item at a location, there will probably me more.

    Instead, they are quite aggressive about telling you not to go to the location yourself - are refuse to go themselves.
    You would have thought that if there's a tracker, there woukd be evidence for a warrant and they can all turn up mob handed. I remember when my local Bobby apologised for how many balaclava'd officers in black turned up for the drugs raid on my upstairs neighbours. We put out the call, he said, and were surprised how many people turned up. I thought the police liked doing that sort of thing?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,308
    kle4 said:

    Labour facing the wipeout in Wales, the slaughter in Scotland, and the, er, extinguishing in England?

    Buggered in Britain.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,137
    edited 1:33PM
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @charlie_savage

    U.S. Attacked Boat With Aircraft That Looked Like a Civilian Plane

    Even accepting the Trump administration’s claim that there is an armed conflict with suspected drug runners, the laws of war bar “perfidy.”

    https://x.com/charlie_savage/status/2010860771144769955?s=20

    Really?

    Nobody hates Trump more than me, but that's a very old tactic and I've never heard a suggestion it was illegal before.

    Here's one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

    I don't know the details, that said.
    I think there's a legal distinction between perfidy and allowable ruses of war ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
    Article 37. – Prohibition of perfidy

    It is prohibited to kill, injure or capture an adversary by resort to perfidy. Acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or is obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence, shall constitute perfidy. The following acts are examples of perfidy:
    The feigning of an intent to negotiate under a flag of truce or of a surrender;
    The feigning of an incapacitation by wounds or sickness;
    The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status; and
    The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict.
    Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts that are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation...


    In any event, the story sounds a bit thin.
    The naval convention is that it is OK to sail under false colours but you would run up your true ones immediately before making an attack. In addition, you could say that Q-ships were acting defensively, as the idea was to lure the u-boat into making a surface attack. It has only been recently that merchantmen have generally been unarmed. So if you attack a ship and it turns out to be better armed than you expected, tough titty.

    I have never understood why Q-ships have not been used against Somali pirates (and other modern pirates of different ethnicities, I would not want to be thought racist!)
    Don't you think access to the office blocks where FoxNews are based might be an issue?
    Maybe a month in tropical sunshine has turned my brain to mush, but that went right over my head
    I was implying that modern pirates, e.g, FoxNews, don't sail the briny ocean...
    Don't besmirch pirates by lumping us in with the likes of FoxNews.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,308

    kle4 said:

    Labour facing the wipeout in Wales, the slaughter in Scotland, and the, er, extinguishing in England?

    Technically sl- doesn't alliterate with sc-. Scotched in Scotland? Shat on in Scotland? (historically sh- was sc-). But any vowel alliterates with any other (as technically they all start with a glottal stop in English)
    Scorched.
    Scunnered in Scotland.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,308

    DavidL said:

    My more parochial concerns are about what is going to happen in Scotland. At the moment the SNP have 60 MSPs, just short of a majority. The Tories are next on 28 and Labour have 21, the Greens 7, the Lib Dems 5, Reform 1 and there are 6 "independent" members, most of whom have fallen out with their parties and are likely to lose their seats.

    The SNP have been in power for a very long time. They are painfully incompetent (spectacularly so when they allowed Green Ministers) and, in common with the rest of the UK, provide ever poorer services at ever greater cost. The hope had been that the SNP would lose something like 20 seats to Labour in the same kind of way as they did in the 2024 Westminster election and this would result in a minority Labour government, possibly in coalition with the Lib Dems and tacit Tory support.

    This now looks incredibly unlikely. Labour still, on current polling, have a slight swing in their favour from the last election and may gain a handful of seats but may well lose an equivalent number to Reform. The Tories will lose a significant number of seats, mainly to Reform but also possibly the odd one to the Lib Dems. The balance of power may well turn on how many seats Reform can take from the SNP.

    What I foresee at this point is that the SNP will remain the largest party but very probably short of a majority, even with their little Green helpers. Labour will be too far from a majority to form any sort of credible government, Reform will become a major player and the Tories will be somewhat diminished from their current peak. I really struggle to see any form of stable government out of this mess. Labour's unpopularity is seriously damaging to the Unionist cause and the prospects of a stable Unionist government over the next few years. It is, to put it politely, disappointing.

    Sad to say, most likely outcome is a renewed SNP-Green coalition. Judging by the polling, the Greens will do well out of the list system with SNP voters transferring to them for the second party vote. Although SNP vote will be well down, they will likely continue to dominate constituencies due to split unionist vote.

    They will be facing a joke opposition if Reform emerge ahead of Labour, which seems likely.

    It was notable that Swinney was remarking that Ross Greer was one of his favourite non-SNP politicians recently. So you can forget any kind of pivot towards helping business or growing the economy. They will continue bulldozing Highland glens in the name of renewables.
    I find it hard to believe that even Reform can provide more inept opposition than the Tories and Labour have in recent years. If there had been more effective opposition, the SNP would have had to improve or lose.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,895

    kle4 said:

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    I wonder if their enthusiasm for such things is because they are easy to investigate and prove. A lot of crime is neither.
    Though you would have thought that thefts of items with tracking devices would have been a win for the police - if theres one stolen item at a location, there will probably me more.

    Instead, they are quite aggressive about telling you not to go to the location yourself - are refuse to go themselves.
    You would have thought that if there's a tracker, there woukd be evidence for a warrant and they can all turn up mob handed. I remember when my local Bobby apologised for how many balaclava'd officers in black turned up for the drugs raid on my upstairs neighbours. We put out the call, he said, and were surprised how many people turned up. I thought the police liked doing that sort of thing?
    It is very bad for perception of crime - happens a lot with bike theft. Trackers are increasing common in bikes.

    Know several people who’ve had their bikes stolen, saw the tracker was active and tried the police. In no case did the police want to do anything.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,591

    kle4 said:

    Labour facing the wipeout in Wales, the slaughter in Scotland, and the, er, extinguishing in England?

    Technically sl- doesn't alliterate with sc-. Scotched in Scotland? Shat on in Scotland? (historically sh- was sc-). But any vowel alliterates with any other (as technically they all start with a glottal stop in English)
    Scorched.
    Scunnered in Scotland.
    Stepmommed in Scotland.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,591
    I feel her pain and I can confirm this is not a parody.

    At £16.50 an hour, I can’t afford to have a cleaner

    Our writer is facing similar issues finding a babysitter with it being nigh on impossible to find one in the wintry depths of East Anglia


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/cant-afford-a-cleaner/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,837
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    That is not a fair summary of what Sultana said. Her tweet begins:

    "The images of body bags leave no doubt about the brutality of Iran’s repression, and a communications blackout is indefensible."
    It goes downhill after that.
    It does, but it's nothing as bad as Sandpit's summary. I have little respect for Sultana, but let's be fair to what she actually said.
    It’s hardly my fault she’s tone deaf, is getting monstered and ratioed in her own comments.

    I’m not an MP, I’m just an idiot with a keyboard about a hundred miles from Iran.
    You’re not having Dubai-ers remorse, I trust?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,002

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    I know I bore on about aesthetics but this is just objectively shit.



    https://x.com/DoWCTO/status/2010826442725056648?s=20

    Nice that they are giving employment though to teenage boys in their bedrooms to make their tweet images.

    Not sure why they have stuck a Vulcan in the picture but nice to see.
    I'm not sure it is a Vulcan. It might actually be a Russian Shaheed drone.
    Yes. It's not a Vulcan
    I remember when I was a wee lad, sat in a classroom with my primary peers, a large delta-wing aircraft flew low and loudly overhead - clearly visible through the classroom window.

    As one, the class shouted "Concorde!"

    I sat smugly knowing that I, alone, knew it was a Vulcan.

    But then I did spend a lot of time building Airfix models.
    Clever of you to Spock the difference.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,224
    Genuine LOL

    Probably shouldn’t wear that pattern around JD Vance
    https://x.com/patriottakes/status/2010855419686854790
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,245

    I feel her pain and I can confirm this is not a parody.

    At £16.50 an hour, I can’t afford to have a cleaner

    Our writer is facing similar issues finding a babysitter with it being nigh on impossible to find one in the wintry depths of East Anglia


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/cant-afford-a-cleaner/

    Buy a robot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,591
    Battlebus said:

    I feel her pain and I can confirm this is not a parody.

    At £16.50 an hour, I can’t afford to have a cleaner

    Our writer is facing similar issues finding a babysitter with it being nigh on impossible to find one in the wintry depths of East Anglia


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/cant-afford-a-cleaner/

    Buy a robot.
    The worst thing about the pandemic/lockdowns for me was our cleaners couldn’t visit, so I had to clean the house, it was a horrible time.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 1,012

    I feel her pain and I can confirm this is not a parody.

    At £16.50 an hour, I can’t afford to have a cleaner

    Our writer is facing similar issues finding a babysitter with it being nigh on impossible to find one in the wintry depths of East Anglia


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/cant-afford-a-cleaner/

    Or do it yourself.

    (Full disclosure, I do have a cleaner for a couple of hours per week, but we went without when the children were small and money was tight).
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,239
    kle4 said:

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    I wonder if their enthusiasm for such things is because they are easy to investigate and prove. A lot of crime is neither.
    The average twitter arse is also less likely to be handy with a screwdriver than someone who nicks catalytic converters for a living.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    That is not a fair summary of what Sultana said. Her tweet begins:

    "The images of body bags leave no doubt about the brutality of Iran’s repression, and a communications blackout is indefensible."
    It goes downhill after that.
    It does, but it's nothing as bad as Sandpit's summary. I have little respect for Sultana, but let's be fair to what she actually said.
    It’s hardly my fault she’s tone deaf, is getting monstered and ratioed in her own comments.

    I’m not an MP, I’m just an idiot with a keyboard about a hundred miles from Iran.
    You’re not having Dubai-ers remorse, I trust?
    I presume he's happy living in an ethno-theocratic autocracy. Or at any rate, he has his price.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,300

    I feel her pain and I can confirm this is not a parody.

    At £16.50 an hour, I can’t afford to have a cleaner

    Our writer is facing similar issues finding a babysitter with it being nigh on impossible to find one in the wintry depths of East Anglia


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/cant-afford-a-cleaner/

    “Oh, howl, howl, howl!”
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,114

    kle4 said:

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    I wonder if their enthusiasm for such things is because they are easy to investigate and prove. A lot of crime is neither.
    Though you would have thought that thefts of items with tracking devices would have been a win for the police - if theres one stolen item at a location, there will probably me more.

    Instead, they are quite aggressive about telling you not to go to the location yourself - are refuse to go themselves.
    You would have thought that if there's a tracker, there woukd be evidence for a warrant and they can all turn up mob handed. I remember when my local Bobby apologised for how many balaclava'd officers in black turned up for the drugs raid on my upstairs neighbours. We put out the call, he said, and were surprised how many people turned up. I thought the police liked doing that sort of thing?
    It is very bad for perception of crime - happens a lot with bike theft. Trackers are increasing common in bikes.

    Know several people who’ve had their bikes stolen, saw the tracker was active and tried the police. In no case did the police want to do anything.
    The problem for the police is an intelligence-led investigation is objectively much more effective than burning police time on investigated individual thefts via CCTV etc.

    E.g. they reckon this gang was processing 40% of all phone snatches: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20vlpwrzwdo

    With conventional bikes I reckon it's much less organised, particularly as the resale value is so low. We think we know which warehouse the £3k e-bikes end up in though - but unfortunately the police still consider them a toy rather than an essential form of transport like a car.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,671

    Had my catalytic converter nicked from the work car park yesterday. Will be well over 2 grand to replace (most of which will be covered by insurance, but not all). And the Police cannot be bothered to do anything.

    The online report took ages filling in all the gender and ethnicity and hate crime questions.

    What a state we are in.

    Bet if I said some hurty words to the 'right' person on X I'd get some police action...

    If you said some hurty words to the actual right person you might get a cctv camera installed in the car park.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 396

    DavidL said:

    My more parochial concerns are about what is going to happen in Scotland. At the moment the SNP have 60 MSPs, just short of a majority. The Tories are next on 28 and Labour have 21, the Greens 7, the Lib Dems 5, Reform 1 and there are 6 "independent" members, most of whom have fallen out with their parties and are likely to lose their seats.

    The SNP have been in power for a very long time. They are painfully incompetent (spectacularly so when they allowed Green Ministers) and, in common with the rest of the UK, provide ever poorer services at ever greater cost. The hope had been that the SNP would lose something like 20 seats to Labour in the same kind of way as they did in the 2024 Westminster election and this would result in a minority Labour government, possibly in coalition with the Lib Dems and tacit Tory support.

    This now looks incredibly unlikely. Labour still, on current polling, have a slight swing in their favour from the last election and may gain a handful of seats but may well lose an equivalent number to Reform. The Tories will lose a significant number of seats, mainly to Reform but also possibly the odd one to the Lib Dems. The balance of power may well turn on how many seats Reform can take from the SNP.

    What I foresee at this point is that the SNP will remain the largest party but very probably short of a majority, even with their little Green helpers. Labour will be too far from a majority to form any sort of credible government, Reform will become a major player and the Tories will be somewhat diminished from their current peak. I really struggle to see any form of stable government out of this mess. Labour's unpopularity is seriously damaging to the Unionist cause and the prospects of a stable Unionist government over the next few years. It is, to put it politely, disappointing.

    Sad to say, most likely outcome is a renewed SNP-Green coalition. Judging by the polling, the Greens will do well out of the list system with SNP voters transferring to them for the second party vote. Although SNP vote will be well down, they will likely continue to dominate constituencies due to split unionist vote.

    They will be facing a joke opposition if Reform emerge ahead of Labour, which seems likely.

    It was notable that Swinney was remarking that Ross Greer was one of his favourite non-SNP politicians recently. So you can forget any kind of pivot towards helping business or growing the economy. They will continue bulldozing Highland glens in the name of renewables.
    It seems like Holyrood elections are now pretty well entrenched across independence lines. Short of another capable pro independence party appearing on the horizon, the SNP and Greens have hoovered up most of the yes vote, Alba won't be winning any seats.

    The SNP look to be more vulnerable in the Highlands than anywhere else, with the Lib Dems being the biggest benefactors. Its difficult to see any other scenario other than an SNP/Green agreement, probably on confidence and supply. Whether they can gain 65 seats + between them will depend largely on how the Labour party perform in the next 4 months.

    One of the quirks of the Scottish system is when Eck won his surprise 2011 majority, he won less of the constituency vote than Sturgeon did in 2016 or 2021, it was the extra list MSPs which tipped the balance in his favour
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,406
    edited 2:21PM
    Roger said:

    Talking about the BBC (which no one was) Victoria Derbyshire is now about as good as they've got. I've only seen her on Newsnight but she's very impressive. Last night Matthew Syed was lauding Trump as he does and his excellent performance in taking out Maduro without a single death. "What about the 50 Cubans?" She asked. "Don't they count?"

    I couldn't bear Derbyshire on 5Live all those years ago. The BBC always looked to be attempting to find a home for her over confident incompetence. Then they gave her Newsnight, which very much annoyed me, and lo and behold she was a revelation.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,671

    I feel her pain and I can confirm this is not a parody.

    At £16.50 an hour, I can’t afford to have a cleaner

    Our writer is facing similar issues finding a babysitter with it being nigh on impossible to find one in the wintry depths of East Anglia


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/cant-afford-a-cleaner/

    Reason number 27 I believe the triple lock complaints were seeded by Russian trolls is that no-one seems the least bit concerned about free child care for families on just under £200,000 a year.
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