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Wipeout in Wales – could Labour get 0 seats in the Senedd? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,883
edited 7:52AM in General
Wipeout in Wales – could Labour get 0 seats in the Senedd? – politicalbetting.com

Wales has long been a Labour fiefdom. Keir Hardie was first elected in 1900 in Merthyr Tydfil as Independent Labour and with three others became the party’s first official MPs in 1908. Many Valleys constituencies, such as Caerphilly, have an unbroken record of Labour winning at Westminster elections.

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Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    edited 7:53AM
    1st like Plaid.

    Or maybe Reform.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,664
    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,397
    I don't really care so long as RefCon aren't the Government in Tiger Bay.

    Interesting ICE development. In Polk County, Florida the Sheriff's department hold a 24 year old native American in anticipation of ICE deporting her back from whence she came. Er...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,416

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    Incroyable!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,589

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    Incroyable!
    I will be singing La Marseillaise hourly every day for a year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    I have moments where I see Labour are completely wiped out in Wales, going the way of the Liberals.

    Then I wake up.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    FPT:

    "Rumours of a Labour defection to Reform"

    Not me, despite what some of my comrades think of me!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Have we also passed Peak Wacky Zacky, with some voters drifting back to Labour?

    As usual, we need more polls.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,221
    edited 8:12AM

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    I noted that last night.
    Entente Cordiale.

    First step towards welcoming us back ?
  • eekeek Posts: 32,265
    ydoethur said:

    I have moments where I see Labour are completely wiped out in Wales, going the way of the Liberals.

    Then I wake up.

    If any election result was going to destroy Labour in Wales, the current polling is nearly perfect for that task..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,221
    ydoethur said:

    I have moments where I see Labour are completely wiped out in Wales, going the way of the Liberals.

    Then I wake up.

    The actual number would be a decent question for the prediction competition.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,589
    Nigelb said:

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    I noted that last night.
    Entente Cordiale.

    First step towards welcoming us back ?
    My ambitions are much higher, we need to honour Churchill and complete his plan to merge the United Kingdom and France into one country.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,589
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    I have moments where I see Labour are completely wiped out in Wales, going the way of the Liberals.

    Then I wake up.

    The actual number would be a decent question for the prediction competition.
    Way ahead of you.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,091
    Is there a market on the Labour to Reform defector?
    I was going to put a £1 on Danczuk but I see he went ages ago :blush:

    For maximum effect it needs to be someone credible at the heart of Labour. .... (Please let it be Glassman, please let it be Glasman, please ....)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,833
    An interesting read - but sadly I think there's a small mathematical mistake in that the "theoretical" minimum needed to get elected in a six-member constituency is actually a seventh of the vote, plus one - since only six candidates can get to this level - and so 14.3% in this case. STV uses this number directly, as the calculated quota, as does D'Hondt within its formula.

    In reality, as Gareth says, all votes won't transfer (STV) and/or some will be wasted on very fringe candidates, and hence the actual number the last person elected gets is usually somewhat lower.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,186

    FPT:

    "Rumours of a Labour defection to Reform"

    Not me, despite what some of my comrades think of me!

    Reform getting their SDP-Brocklebank Fowler moment? SDP were still the Gang of Four; Reform will still be the Gang of One.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,942
    Pedant Alert:
    "With 6 seats per constituency, the theoretical minimum vote percentage to get a seat is 17%, however, it is likely to be lower than that due to wasted votes."

    Actually, with 6 seats per constituency, the theoretical minimum vote percentage that guarantees you a seat is a little below 14.29% - if 6 parties round up to the next single vote above 1/7 of the vote, the 7th party can only get 1/7 of the vote minus those rounded up bits and will thus lose to the 6 parties above them. This also informs STV thresholds.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    On topic (ish), six members per constituency is a bit on the low side for d'Hondt to give close to proportional results. Eight would be better, but that would need completely new constituency boundaries (or too many AMs), so I can see why they've gone with six.

    Thinking back to the Euro elections, the NE England constituency elected three MEPs and that was far too low for d'Hondt to work properly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,221
    You mean like the Biden reform that Trump had his Congressional poodles veto ?

    Trump told NYT he wants comprehensive immigration reform that "possibly" includes path to citizenship

    "If the Democrats would do it, I’d do it. I’d love to have a comprehensive immigration policy, something that really worked. It’s about time for the country to have it"

    https://x.com/burgessev/status/2010817262836392447

    Something that oddly doesn't occur to the NYT.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,186
    Nigelb said:

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    I noted that last night.
    Entente Cordiale.

    First step towards welcoming us back ?
    You'd intrinically think the French should be amongst the world's best at trolling.

    "Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time..."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,589
    Dopermean said:

    Is there a market on the Labour to Reform defector?
    I was going to put a £1 on Danczuk but I see he went ages ago :blush:

    For maximum effect it needs to be someone credible at the heart of Labour. .... (Please let it be Glassman, please let it be Glasman, please ....)

    Yes

    Will a serving Labour MP join Reform UK during the current Parliament?

    Yes - 4/5

    No - 10/11

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/mp-defection-specials/252303340/main-markets
  • I don't really care so long as RefCon aren't the Government in Tiger Bay.

    Interesting ICE development. In Polk County, Florida the Sheriff's department hold a 24 year old native American in anticipation of ICE deporting her back from whence she came. Er...

    I think Gareth gives an excellent analysis and highlights the weakness of D'Hondt in its non-proportionality as we approach non-standard situations - it is like Newtonian Gravitation as we approach the speed of light.

    Fake D'Hondt was picked for the Euro Elections to benefit the Lib Dems but near the end it really did for them. This looks like Fake Fake D'Hondt. If you really don't want RefCon they you will have to vote Con and then at least you will have a ConRef Sennedd ... goes away and hides !

    Those who live by gerrymandered voting systems die by gerrymandered voting systems - vide the Second Republic
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,186

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Have we also passed Peak Wacky Zacky, with some voters drifting back to Labour?

    As usual, we need more polls.
    Tories just 4% behind Reform is yuge.

    Crossover would relly shake things up.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,262
    edited 8:26AM
    Llafur (unlike SLab) have been making some efforts to distance themselves from London Labour, to not much effect it would appear. In Scotland it has been posited at various times that the SCons should set themselves up as a genuinely independent party rather than a sub branch, but these suggestions always disappear like Scotch mist. If such a disastrous result comes to pass for Labour in Wales might that be a boot up the arse for genuine independence (for Llafur)?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,664
    Good point!

    X
    Christopher Hope📝@christopherhope
    The risk for Reform is that this is one way of looking at it! 👇

    Quote
    𝔱𝔢𝔠𝔥𝔫𝔬 𝔠𝔞𝔭𝔦𝔱𝔞𝔩𝔦𝔰𝔱@tcnoca·20h
    Replying to @christopherhope and @GBNEWS
    Vote @KemiBadenoch for 2029 Conservatives

    Vote @Nigel_Farage for 2022 Conservatives
    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/2010716261550788986
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,221

    Dopermean said:

    Is there a market on the Labour to Reform defector?
    I was going to put a £1 on Danczuk but I see he went ages ago :blush:

    For maximum effect it needs to be someone credible at the heart of Labour. .... (Please let it be Glassman, please let it be Glasman, please ....)

    Yes

    Will a serving Labour MP join Reform UK during the current Parliament?

    Yes - 4/5

    No - 10/11

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/mp-defection-specials/252303340/main-markets
    Given the overrepresentation of both Labour and effing idiots in the Commons, and the certainty that those two things are overlapping sets, surely it's inevitable ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,895

    Nigelb said:

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    I noted that last night.
    Entente Cordiale.

    First step towards welcoming us back ?
    My ambitions are much higher, we need to honour Churchill and complete his plan to merge the United Kingdom and France into one country.
    Nonsense

    Implement the Treaty of Troyes.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,397

    I don't really care so long as RefCon aren't the Government in Tiger Bay.

    Interesting ICE development. In Polk County, Florida the Sheriff's department hold a 24 year old native American in anticipation of ICE deporting her back from whence she came. Er...

    I think Gareth gives an excellent analysis and highlights the weakness of D'Hondt in its non-proportionality as we approach non-standard situations - it is like Newtonian Gravitation as we approach the speed of light.

    Fake D'Hondt was picked for the Euro Elections to benefit the Lib Dems but near the end it really did for them. This looks like Fake Fake D'Hondt. If you really don't want RefCon they you will have to vote Con and then at least you will have a ConRef Sennedd ... goes away and hides !

    Those who live by gerrymandered voting systems die by gerrymandered voting systems - vide the Second Republic
    One of the manifold problems with Ref and Con in Wales is they are pretty much indistinguishable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,893
    edited 8:30AM
    If the Senedd was a pure FPTP electoral system Labour could get 0 seats on that Yougov poll. Now it is pure PR Labour should still get about 10% of AMs. Labour are also likely to still end up junior partners to Plaid in the new Welsh government with Reform the main opposition party
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    edited 8:28AM

    Nigelb said:

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    I noted that last night.
    Entente Cordiale.

    First step towards welcoming us back ?
    My ambitions are much higher, we need to honour Churchill and complete his plan to merge the United Kingdom and France into one country.
    Would that take us back into the EU, or the French out of it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Have we also passed Peak Wacky Zacky, with some voters drifting back to Labour?

    As usual, we need more polls.
    Tories just 4% behind Reform is yuge.

    Crossover would relly shake things up.
    A reminder that Ed Miliband's Labour polled pretty well before 2015.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,893
    Trump announces new 25% tariffs on countries still trading with Iran while the Ayatollahs remain in power

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cj691w2e840t
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    HYUFD said:

    If the Senedd was a pure FPTP electoral system Labour could get 0 seats on that Yougov poll. Now it is pure PR Labour should still get about 10% of AMs. Labour are also likely to still end up junior partners to Plaid in the new Welsh government with Reform the main opposition party

    I'd call it lumpy PR, rather than pure PR, but I agree with your predictions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    HYUFD said:

    Trump announces new 25% tariffs on countries still trading with Iran while the Ayatollahs remain in power

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cj691w2e840t

    What happened to 'locked and loaded?' Did Mr Putin have a quiet word?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,893

    Llafur (unlike SLab) have been making some efforts to distance themselves from London Labour, to not much effect it would appear. In Scotland it has been posited at various times that the SCons should set themselves up as a genuinely independent party rather than a sub branch, but these suggestions always disappear like Scotch mist. If such a disastrous result comes to pass for Labour in Wales might that be a boot up the arse for genuine independence (for Llafur)?

    Llafur as likely junior partners to a Plaid led Welsh government does the distancing from London anyway
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,589
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    I noted that last night.
    Entente Cordiale.

    First step towards welcoming us back ?
    My ambitions are much higher, we need to honour Churchill and complete his plan to merge the United Kingdom and France into one country.
    Would that take us back into the EU, or the French out of it?
    Back in.

    The French presidential voting system is the best in the world, we should adopt it for our general elections.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,893
    edited 8:36AM

    I don't really care so long as RefCon aren't the Government in Tiger Bay.

    Interesting ICE development. In Polk County, Florida the Sheriff's department hold a 24 year old native American in anticipation of ICE deporting her back from whence she came. Er...

    I think Gareth gives an excellent analysis and highlights the weakness of D'Hondt in its non-proportionality as we approach non-standard situations - it is like Newtonian Gravitation as we approach the speed of light.

    Fake D'Hondt was picked for the Euro Elections to benefit the Lib Dems but near the end it really did for them. This looks like Fake Fake D'Hondt. If you really don't want RefCon they you will have to vote Con and then at least you will have a ConRef Sennedd ... goes away and hides !

    Those who live by gerrymandered voting systems die by gerrymandered voting systems - vide the Second Republic
    One of the manifold problems with Ref and Con in Wales is they are pretty much indistinguishable.
    Not under Darren Millar
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,217
    HYUFD said:

    Trump announces new 25% tariffs on countries still trading with Iran while the Ayatollahs remain in power

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cj691w2e840t

    Who’s still trading with Iran? Can only be China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba.

    Only China of those should be too worried about the effect on US trade.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,299
    Never thought I'd see the day Wales abandoned Labour. Not sure my brain will accept it's possible until the last vote is counted.

    Not sure any of the alternatives are ideal though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,299
    Wales, the last holdout of UKIP.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,221
    Fascinating thread from five years ago.

    For 15 years, I’ve been studying 1960s civil rights protests with particular attention to how nonviolent and violent actions by activists & police influence media, elites, public opinion & voters. I'm thrilled some of that work was published last week...
    https://x.com/owasow/status/1265709670892580869

    Here's the paper:
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/agenda-seeding-how-1960s-black-protests-moved-elites-public-opinion-and-voting/136610C8C040C3D92F041BB2EFC3034C

    Bottom line:
    ..Running a variety of statistical tests on presidential elections from 1964 to 1972, I found counties close to nonviolent protests saw presidential Democratic vote share among whites increase 1.3-1.6%.

    Protester-initiated violence (again, irrespective of police violence), helped move public towards concern for “social control.” In 1968, I find violent protests likely caused a 1.6-7.9% shift among whites towards Nixon’s “law & order” campaign and helped tipped the election. ..


    The really neat bit is that he uses weather as a randomiser:

    to try and approximate random assignment of violent protests, I use rainfall in April of 1968. Why April? Martin Luther King, Jr is assassinated on April 4 & 137 violent protests follow his murder. Prior work shows rainfall predicts uprisings (↑ rain, ↓ protest).

    I use rainfall in April to predict protests & then voting in 1968. The week before Apr 4, rainfall does not predict voting. In latter half of April, also no effect. Only in week following King's assassination (with 95% of protests) does rain in April predict voting in November...





  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,664
    Nigelb said:

    Dopermean said:

    Is there a market on the Labour to Reform defector?
    I was going to put a £1 on Danczuk but I see he went ages ago :blush:

    For maximum effect it needs to be someone credible at the heart of Labour. .... (Please let it be Glassman, please let it be Glasman, please ....)

    Yes

    Will a serving Labour MP join Reform UK during the current Parliament?

    Yes - 4/5

    No - 10/11

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/mp-defection-specials/252303340/main-markets
    Given the overrepresentation of both Labour and effing idiots in the Commons, and the certainty that those two things are overlapping sets, surely it's inevitable ?
    If you were a new Labour MP in what was once a safe heartland constituency seat that is now seriously threatened by Reform and you didn't want to see your career as an elected politician end after one term, surely it could certainly be tempting to defect early from this deeply unpopular Labour Government to sit on the Opposition benches in the Reform party? And with the added political polling bonus that you would be a very good bet to win a new mandate as a Reform candidate if you followed in the footsteps of Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless when they both defected from the Conservative party to UKIP and then triggered by-elections which they then went onto win..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    edited 8:40AM
    On topic, I would love to see Labour really take a pounding but I'm cautious. Welsh Labour are remarkably resilient and they have a longstanding ability to confound expectations. There isn't quite as clearcut a challenge from Plaid as there was form say, the SNP in Scotland, and even allowing for that, there is a fairly even split among the other parties in terms of vote share at the moment. Finally, the new voting system (which is not the STV system initially promised) was again carefully designed to favour them as much as possible.

    For me, the value bet is Labour to come second. That covers a multitude of outcomes, including a Reform implosion, a Lib Dem or Con rally, a Green surge taking votes off Plaid rather than Labour, and either Reform or Plaid coming out on top.

    But I honestly think trying to predict an outcome in terms of seats would be a mug's game and you would be literally better off trying to stick a pin in a chart than making informed decisions.

    If I had to guess, my guess is that there will be three parties jockeying within a few seats of each other. But I'm fully expecting that guess to be wrong. Heck, my predictions last year were so bad I couldn't even manage to come last as I intended.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,299
    Foxy said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Just 10% between top and bottom of 5 different parties is going to test FPTP to its limits.
    It breaks long before that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,589
    HYUFD said:

    Trump announces new 25% tariffs on countries still trading with Iran while the Ayatollahs remain in power

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cj691w2e840t

    That's Shi'ite for the countries that trade with Iran.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,397
    HYUFD said:

    I don't really care so long as RefCon aren't the Government in Tiger Bay.

    Interesting ICE development. In Polk County, Florida the Sheriff's department hold a 24 year old native American in anticipation of ICE deporting her back from whence she came. Er...

    I think Gareth gives an excellent analysis and highlights the weakness of D'Hondt in its non-proportionality as we approach non-standard situations - it is like Newtonian Gravitation as we approach the speed of light.

    Fake D'Hondt was picked for the Euro Elections to benefit the Lib Dems but near the end it really did for them. This looks like Fake Fake D'Hondt. If you really don't want RefCon they you will have to vote Con and then at least you will have a ConRef Sennedd ... goes away and hides !

    Those who live by gerrymandered voting systems die by gerrymandered voting systems - vide the Second Republic
    One of the manifold problems with Ref and Con in Wales is they are pretty much indistinguishable.
    Not under Darren Millar
    You saved yourself off the line there. Darren Jones leading the Welsh Tories was one I'd missed. But Darren Millar, same old grey Reform porridge but not as bumbling as the Davies Twins.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,908
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump announces new 25% tariffs on countries still trading with Iran while the Ayatollahs remain in power

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cj691w2e840t

    Who’s still trading with Iran? Can only be China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba.

    Only China of those should be too worried about the effect on US trade.
    India and Turkey too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,893
    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Gives a very very hung parliament on that new Yougov.

    Reform 242 MPs, Labour 120, Conservatives 90 and LDs 90

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    edited 8:42AM
    kle4 said:

    Never thought I'd see the day Wales abandoned Labour. Not sure my brain will accept it's possible until the last vote is counted.

    Not sure any of the alternatives are ideal though.

    Partly because Welsh Labour's dominance has hollowed out not just their ranks of talent but those of the other parties too.

    Rhun ap Iorwerth is something of an exception, but looking at the rest of them I'm struggling to see where Plaid put a talented cabinet together from.

    As for the Welsh Tories...
  • eekeek Posts: 32,265
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Never thought I'd see the day Wales abandoned Labour. Not sure my brain will accept it's possible until the last vote is counted.

    Not sure any of the alternatives are ideal though.

    Partly because Welsh Labour's dominance has hollowed out not just their ranks of talent but those of the other parties too.

    Rhun ap Iorwerth is something of an exception, but looking at the rest of them I'm struggling to see where Plaid put a talented cabinet together from.

    As for the Welsh Tories...
    We are back to the continual question, who would go into politics. Add the fact that in Wales there was zero chance of actually doing anything until Labour's old guard had all retired and you can see the scale of the issue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dopermean said:

    Is there a market on the Labour to Reform defector?
    I was going to put a £1 on Danczuk but I see he went ages ago :blush:

    For maximum effect it needs to be someone credible at the heart of Labour. .... (Please let it be Glassman, please let it be Glasman, please ....)

    Yes

    Will a serving Labour MP join Reform UK during the current Parliament?

    Yes - 4/5

    No - 10/11

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/mp-defection-specials/252303340/main-markets
    Given the overrepresentation of both Labour and effing idiots in the Commons, and the certainty that those two things are overlapping sets, surely it's inevitable ?
    If you were a new Labour MP in what was once a safe heartland constituency seat that is now seriously threatened by Reform and you didn't want to see your career as an elected politician end after one term, surely it could certainly be tempting to defect early from this deeply unpopular Labour Government to sit on the Opposition benches in the Reform party? And with the added political polling bonus that you would be a very good bet to win a new mandate as a Reform candidate if you followed in the footsteps of Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless when they both defected from the Conservative party to UKIP and then triggered by-elections which they then went onto win..
    Have you ever read John Buchan's novella The Gap In The Curtain?

    Chapter Three, the tale of David Mayot, springs to mind.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,299
    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Gives a very very hung parliament on that new Yougov.

    Reform 242 MPs, Labour 120, Conservatives 90 and LDs 90

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
    If one must be hung at least let it be well hung.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,073

    I don't really care so long as RefCon aren't the Government in Tiger Bay.

    Interesting ICE development. In Polk County, Florida the Sheriff's department hold a 24 year old native American in anticipation of ICE deporting her back from whence she came. Er...

    This has happened several times to native Americans. That’s obviously because it’s not about immigration, it’s about being white.

    #pedantrycorner “whence” means “from where”, so you don’t need “from whence”. You want “deporting her back whence she came”.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Gives a very very hung parliament on that new Yougov.

    Reform 242 MPs, Labour 120, Conservatives 90 and LDs 90

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
    If one must be hung at least let it be well hung.
    Since the time of Lloyd George Welsh politics has always been known for the number of giant dicks involved.

    The meaning has of course changed slightly since Lloyd George's time.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,073
    Foxy said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Just 10% between top and bottom of 5 different parties is going to test FPTP to its limits.
    Hasn’t Papua New Guinea seen FPTP elections where the winner got less than 5% because the vote was split over so many candidates?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,221
    Who was it complaining about the Nazi comparisons the other day?

    https://qweditions.com/the-disgust-of-one-of-ours-all-of-yours/
    “One of Ours, All of Yours”

    On January 8, 2026, the above slogan was displayed prominently during Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem’s press conference at One World Trade Center in New York City, the slogan appeared just one day after an ICE agent fatally shot 37-year-old U.S. citizen Renée Nicole Good in Minneapolis...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,262
    In more 'we're definitely not Nazis' news, can anyone talk me through what message the plasticised dog killer is trying to send if she's not just happily adopting Nazi vibes?

    https://x.com/WUTangKids/status/2010896567486787615?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,217
    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,213
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Gives a very very hung parliament on that new Yougov.

    Reform 242 MPs, Labour 120, Conservatives 90 and LDs 90

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
    If one must be hung at least let it be well hung.
    Just don't type that anywhere near X, or goodness knows what Grok will make of it.

    If those were the final scores on the doors, RefCon works until the residual wet Conservatives defect. Presumably you end up with Farage ruling by decree (ministers can do an awful lot without passing new laws) and daring the Conservatives to oppose him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,262
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
    Elongrok has spoken.

    Grok
    @grok
    ·
    49m
    Based on reports from BBC, CNN, NBC, RT, and TeleSUR, the tanker Bella 1 (aka Marinera) was seized by the US for violating sanctions on Venezuelan oil transport. It was reportedly empty or carrying oil, but no sources confirm Iranian drones or large sums of cash on board. The claim appears unverified.
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 455
    I don’t think the Green vote will materialise.

    I know we are a grassroots kind of organisation but we will need a well established local good party infrastructure to drive change.

    We will see.





  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,032

    In more 'we're definitely not Nazis' news, can anyone talk me through what message the plasticised dog killer is trying to send if she's not just happily adopting Nazi vibes?

    https://x.com/WUTangKids/status/2010896567486787615?s=20

    Was thinking about it yesterday - I think she is far too stupid to know her history but the worrying thing is that there are people in the regime who chose that and were no doubt aware of where it came from which gives an indication of where some want the country to go.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,833
    edited 9:13AM

    On topic (ish), six members per constituency is a bit on the low side for d'Hondt to give close to proportional results. Eight would be better, but that would need completely new constituency boundaries (or too many AMs), so I can see why they've gone with six.

    Thinking back to the Euro elections, the NE England constituency elected three MEPs and that was far too low for d'Hondt to work properly.

    Wales isn't that big - they'd have done better to have merged three constituencies together and just had ten new ones.

    As things stand, knocking existing seats together - understandable to get it done quickly - has lost them one of the advantages of such a system (or indeed of STV, which would have been better still), which is the ability to adjust constituency size to match existing or 'sensible' geographical areas. Thus, taking the UK as an example, if we did the same, the big cities like Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow, Manchester, would be seats on their own account, as would the larger counties, with the number of MPs chosen to match the population. For future reviews it then becomes a matter of changing the number of MPs, as populations rise or fall, rather than redrawing all the boundaries, which is a much less complicated proposition than our existing boundary reviews, which have to straightjacket our varying geography into a set of seats all (roughly) identically-sized.

    As well as easier boundary reviews, such an approach carries the additional advantages of seats that more closely matching natural community identities, and aligning with other boundaries such as for local government, avoiding the current mess where councils and MPs have completely fragmented overlapping representation, requiring them each to deal with far more people at other levels of government.

    For Wales to end up with a seat that tacks together the moorland villages of Brecon and Radnor with "Swansea East" is somewhat absurd.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,114

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
    Elongrok has spoken.

    Grok
    @grok
    ·
    49m
    Based on reports from BBC, CNN, NBC, RT, and TeleSUR, the tanker Bella 1 (aka Marinera) was seized by the US for violating sanctions on Venezuelan oil transport. It was reportedly empty or carrying oil, but no sources confirm Iranian drones or large sums of cash on board. The claim appears unverified.
    "Anyway, here's some Class 1 CP of your niece. Have a great day".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
    Elongrok has spoken.

    Grok
    @grok
    ·
    49m
    Based on reports from BBC, CNN, NBC, RT, and TeleSUR, the tanker Bella 1 (aka Marinera) was seized by the US for violating sanctions on Venezuelan oil transport. It was reportedly empty or carrying oil, but no sources confirm Iranian drones or large sums of cash on board. The claim appears unverified.
    So what you're saying is, @Sandpit and his source are right?

    (It seems improbable in the extreme that the Yanks, even under Aspirin Man, would spend all this time and trouble pursuing an empty or oil-filled tanker. But it is of course possible that their information was faulty. I won't say 'their intelligence was faulty' as that's a given.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,217
    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,397
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
    Pissed, because he wasn't offered a cut?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,997
    IanB2 said:

    On topic (ish), six members per constituency is a bit on the low side for d'Hondt to give close to proportional results. Eight would be better, but that would need completely new constituency boundaries (or too many AMs), so I can see why they've gone with six.

    Thinking back to the Euro elections, the NE England constituency elected three MEPs and that was far too low for d'Hondt to work properly.

    Wales isn't that big - they'd have done better to have merged three constituencies together and just had ten new ones.

    As things stand, knocking existing seats together - understandable to get it done quickly - has lost them one of the advantages of such a system (or indeed of STV, which would have been better still), which is the ability to adjust constituency size to match existing or 'sensible' geographical areas. Thus, taking the UK as an example, if we did the same, the big cities like Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow, Manchester, would be seats on their own account, as would the larger counties, with the number of MPs chosen to match the population. For future reviews it then becomes a matter of changing the number of MPs, as populations rise or fall, rather than redrawing all the boundaries, which is a much less complicated proposition than our existing boundary reviews, which have to straightjacket our varying geography into a set of seats all (roughly) identically-sized.

    As well as easier boundary reviews, such an approach carries the additional advantages of seats that more closely matching natural community identities, and aligning with other boundaries such as for local government, avoiding the current mess where councils and MPs have completely fragmented overlapping representation, requiring them each to deal with far more people at other levels of government.

    For Wales to end up with a seat that tacks together the moorland villages of Brecon and Radnor with "Swansea East" is somewhat absurd.
    1) If you go to Brecon, don't call it a 'village.' The locals have Views on this subject.

    2) Actually there is a logical correlation there and much of the travel from Radnorshire in particular heads towards Swansea rather than Cardiff (e.g. the only railway line runs to Swansea via Llanelli). I always thought of Swansea as the local city for Ystradgynlais as a child, which is in Breconshire. The Diocese of Swansea and Brecon is based in Brecon. It may look odd on a map but it makes fair sense on the ground. It's more sensible to pair Brecon with Swansea than either Ceredigion or Montgomery, which would be the alternatives.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787
    edited 9:21AM

    In more 'we're definitely not Nazis' news, can anyone talk me through what message the plasticised dog killer is trying to send if she's not just happily adopting Nazi vibes?

    https://x.com/WUTangKids/status/2010896567486787615?s=20

    ...not to mention the eagle sprouting out of the head of her two lackeys
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,217
    edited 9:23AM
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
    Elongrok has spoken.

    Grok
    @grok
    ·
    49m
    Based on reports from BBC, CNN, NBC, RT, and TeleSUR, the tanker Bella 1 (aka Marinera) was seized by the US for violating sanctions on Venezuelan oil transport. It was reportedly empty or carrying oil, but no sources confirm Iranian drones or large sums of cash on board. The claim appears unverified.
    So what you're saying is, @Sandpit and his source are right?

    (It seems improbable in the extreme that the Yanks, even under Aspirin Man, would spend all this time and trouble pursuing an empty or oil-filled tanker. But it is of course possible that their information was faulty. I won't say 'their intelligence was faulty' as that's a given.)
    WarMonitor is usually a reliable source on Russia, let’s see if anything else comes up that confirms one way or the other.

    The efforts put in by both US and Russia strongly suggest she wasn’t empty though.

    Now what are NATO countries going to do about the dodgy vessels currently heading down the English Channel, one every couple of days, heading from the Suez for St.Petersburg? They really should all be intercepted.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,833
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
    The original post says drones, rather than weapons, and you'd think Russia would have a pressing demand for the drones nearer to home, rather than having Iran ship them all the way over to Venezuela?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,397
    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    She is in good company. Only yesterday the richest man in the World called Starmer's regime out as Nazis.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787
    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    At least partially true. The Iranians will have to move fast if they hope to compete with the 80,000 dispatched by the Israelis
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787

    I love the French, always have, always will.

    This is their response to Elon Musk calling the UK government fascist.



    https://x.com/steeve/status/2010463378289185098

    Post of the week!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    Totally clueless. And when all of the opposition protestors are in body bags, she can rest easy in knowing that the Imperialists stood by and watched.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,671
    The Pakistani Thunder fighter jet air forces are lining up to buy
    After excelling in combat, the JF-17 flies off shelves, giving Islamabad’s export industry a major boost
    ...
    Low in cost, high in performance, the jets were tested in combat against India as the two nuclear powers went to war in May. The JF-17 excelled against India’s French-made Rafales, and now other countries are lining up to buy their own.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/01/13/pakistani-fighter-jet-air-forces-want-to-buy/ (£££)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,397
    edited 9:34AM
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I would love to see Labour really take a pounding but I'm cautious. Welsh Labour are remarkably resilient and they have a longstanding ability to confound expectations. There isn't quite as clearcut a challenge from Plaid as there was form say, the SNP in Scotland, and even allowing for that, there is a fairly even split among the other parties in terms of vote share at the moment. Finally, the new voting system (which is not the STV system initially promised) was again carefully designed to favour them as much as possible.

    For me, the value bet is Labour to come second. That covers a multitude of outcomes, including a Reform implosion, a Lib Dem or Con rally, a Green surge taking votes off Plaid rather than Labour, and either Reform or Plaid coming out on top.

    But I honestly think trying to predict an outcome in terms of seats would be a mug's game and you would be literally better off trying to stick a pin in a chart than making informed decisions.

    If I had to guess, my guess is that there will be three parties jockeying within a few seats of each other. But I'm fully expecting that guess to be wrong. Heck, my predictions last year were so bad I couldn't even manage to come last as I intended.

    Anecdotally Labour are at rock bottom. They really are unpopular both from Westminster and Cardiff Bay. There has been no "f*** me, Reform are Putin's henchmen" after Nathan Gill, "I better hold my nose and vote red Tory". It really hasn't registered.

    I know I am alone on here, but after years of Tory corruption in Westminster (which they seem to have largely got away with) I don't see the green shoots everyone else sees. Maybe that is simply wishful thinking.

    Plaid could well be a depository for NOTA voters. They probably will be for this one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,833
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    On topic (ish), six members per constituency is a bit on the low side for d'Hondt to give close to proportional results. Eight would be better, but that would need completely new constituency boundaries (or too many AMs), so I can see why they've gone with six.

    Thinking back to the Euro elections, the NE England constituency elected three MEPs and that was far too low for d'Hondt to work properly.

    Wales isn't that big - they'd have done better to have merged three constituencies together and just had ten new ones.

    As things stand, knocking existing seats together - understandable to get it done quickly - has lost them one of the advantages of such a system (or indeed of STV, which would have been better still), which is the ability to adjust constituency size to match existing or 'sensible' geographical areas. Thus, taking the UK as an example, if we did the same, the big cities like Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow, Manchester, would be seats on their own account, as would the larger counties, with the number of MPs chosen to match the population. For future reviews it then becomes a matter of changing the number of MPs, as populations rise or fall, rather than redrawing all the boundaries, which is a much less complicated proposition than our existing boundary reviews, which have to straightjacket our varying geography into a set of seats all (roughly) identically-sized.

    As well as easier boundary reviews, such an approach carries the additional advantages of seats that more closely matching natural community identities, and aligning with other boundaries such as for local government, avoiding the current mess where councils and MPs have completely fragmented overlapping representation, requiring them each to deal with far more people at other levels of government.

    For Wales to end up with a seat that tacks together the moorland villages of Brecon and Radnor with "Swansea East" is somewhat absurd.
    1) If you go to Brecon, don't call it a 'village.' The locals have Views on this subject.

    2) Actually there is a logical correlation there and much of the travel from Radnorshire in particular heads towards Swansea rather than Cardiff (e.g. the only railway line runs to Swansea via Llanelli). I always thought of Swansea as the local city for Ystradgynlais as a child, which is in Breconshire. The Diocese of Swansea and Brecon is based in Brecon. It may look odd on a map but it makes fair sense on the ground. It's more sensible to pair Brecon with Swansea than either Ceredigion or Montgomery, which would be the alternatives.
    Maybe a bad example on my part, then, but the general point I was trying to make stands
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,073
    edited 9:39AM
    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    That is not a fair summary of what Sultana said. Her tweet begins:

    "The images of body bags leave no doubt about the brutality of Iran’s repression, and a communications blackout is indefensible."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,444
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    I think we need more than one unsourced source to say that, but it seems possible. It certainly wasn't carrying oil.

    If it was carrying cash and weapons, will it finally cause Trump to realise he's being had and stop dancing to Moscow's tune on Ukraine? Or will he continue to be used because Witkoff, Miller and Vance are all ultimately at best Putin's useful idiots?
    The original post says drones, rather than weapons, and you'd think Russia would have a pressing demand for the drones nearer to home, rather than having Iran ship them all the way over to Venezuela?
    I though Russia was having plenty of drones sent it's way!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,833
    Daily Express: Blow for Nigel Farage as Reform hits nine-month low in polls

    The real story is the inability of varying pollsters to tell the same story, MoE notwithstanding
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,258

    I don’t think the Green vote will materialise.

    I know we are a grassroots kind of organisation but we will need a well established local good party infrastructure to drive change.

    We will see.

    Assuming the impossibility of a big transfer from left of centre to right of centre, or vice versa, the voting in the next GE is likely to split fairly evenly between the two poles. The potential Green vote has to go somewhere unless it stays at home. It is likely that by 2029 the this government will have fewer rather than greater green and socialist credentials than it does now, so that a large majority of voters, left and right, of all types are voting on the basis of 'Not Labour'. This will be joined by the overlapping 'Not Reform' majority. On the left the Greens are best placed to gain from this. Overall, it's the open goal for the Tories to aim at.

    This is a route to the Tories doing far better than is thinkable at this moment. Less so for Greens. But if Greens and LDs fight each other for vote share to a standstill taking 30% between them, leaving only about 20% for the rest of the left, it's catastrophic for Labour, great for the Tories.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787
    edited 9:42AM
    Sandpit said:

    Remember that dodgy ‘tanker’ that was going from Iran to Venezuela, before making an about turn and heading for Russia before the Americans headed her off.

    Well of course she was full of loot. Cash and weapons.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2010976683214389576

    Apart from the website you have have linked to I cant find reference to that anywhere. Where do you find these sites? Are the BBC being remiss?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    That is not a fair summary of what Sultana said. Her tweet begins:

    "The images of body bags leave no doubt about the brutality of Iran’s repression, and a communications blackout is indefensible."
    It goes downhill after that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    IanB2 said:

    Daily Express: Blow for Nigel Farage as Reform hits nine-month low in polls

    The real story is the inability of varying pollsters to tell the same story, MoE notwithstanding

    "Blow for Nigel Farage"

    Lucky chap.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,258
    IanB2 said:

    Daily Express: Blow for Nigel Farage as Reform hits nine-month low in polls

    The real story is the inability of varying pollsters to tell the same story, MoE notwithstanding

    Interesting. Unusually the meta-data seems more interesting than the data. Two questions seem central - assuming you can properly exclude the question of conscious or unconscious bias. One is: how is the raw data collected. The other: how and why is it amended to give a final score.

    IANAE and I doubt if I would understand an analysis of this. Any answers I might understand?

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,817
    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Every other poll since New Year has Reform (and their lead) up, so this could indeed be no more than an outlier. Or, playing Devil's Advocate, a reversion to BAU after everyone has got back from their Christmas/New Year break
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,192
    algarkirk said:

    I don’t think the Green vote will materialise.

    I know we are a grassroots kind of organisation but we will need a well established local good party infrastructure to drive change.

    We will see.

    Assuming the impossibility of a big transfer from left of centre to right of centre, or vice versa, the voting in the next GE is likely to split fairly evenly between the two poles. The potential Green vote has to go somewhere unless it stays at home. It is likely that by 2029 the this government will have fewer rather than greater green and socialist credentials than it does now, so that a large majority of voters, left and right, of all types are voting on the basis of 'Not Labour'. This will be joined by the overlapping 'Not Reform' majority. On the left the Greens are best placed to gain from this. Overall, it's the open goal for the Tories to aim at.

    This is a route to the Tories doing far better than is thinkable at this moment. Less so for Greens. But if Greens and LDs fight each other for vote share to a standstill taking 30% between them, leaving only about 20% for the rest of the left, it's catastrophic for Labour, great for the Tories.

    Staying at home is always a key factor. Swing between left and right is often an illusion, resulting from the differential turnout between the two blocs differing from the differential turnout last time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,833

    I don’t think the Green vote will materialise.

    I know we are a grassroots kind of organisation but we will need a well established local good party infrastructure to drive change.

    We will see.





    The Green wave will depend heavily on younger female voters, which is where much of their support it.

    There's certainly a scenario where the oft-predicted youth wave fails to materialise.

    On the other hand, I remember driving through London on GE day 2017 and seeing the crowds of young Corbynites in every street, and it isn't impossible to imagine such a scenario for the Greens at the next GE, fuelled also by social media, remembering also that by the next GE we're supposed to have votes at 16 - evidence is, the first time people get the vote at least, turnout and enthusiasm to participate is relatively high.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,302
    Reflecting on Nadhim Zahawi's defection to Reform, I'm really struggling to conclude that it will add a single vote for them. Is anybody really going to think: "Oh, now Nadhim has crossed over, I'm definitely going to vote Reform".
    Given his background, however, it may lose them a few.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,306
    edited 9:50AM
    The BBC are to seek dismissal of Trump's defamation claim on the basis of lack of jurisdiction, lack of any relevant averments of loss and misstatements on where the documentary was shown. I would have thought that the first is most likely to succeed at this stage. It really is not clear on what basis Florida has jurisdiction over a program shown in the UK by an organisation which has no footprint there.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c394x4z8kpdo
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,239
    Votes at 16 seemed to go quiet after it looked like the younger vote was going to swing massively Green.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,258

    Sandpit said:

    Sarah Sultana MP:

    While Iranians are stuffed into body bags by the regime there, please remember that the bad guys are the US, UK, and of course Israel.

    https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/2010800541274948037

    That is not a fair summary of what Sultana said. Her tweet begins:

    "The images of body bags leave no doubt about the brutality of Iran’s repression, and a communications blackout is indefensible."
    It's pretty fair. Sultana is entirely predictable and the pattern is the usual leftist one, as in Stop The War's account of Russia and Ukraine. She starts with a one sentence criticism of mass killings (Corbyn always uses a dismissive 'Of Course' at this point) but this is followed by complete silence about the regime's allies (China, Russia, North Korea etc) and specific critical mention of UK, USA, and Israel and their evils and failures.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,787
    Foxy said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT.
    X
    Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky·1h
    YouGov / Sky / Times weekly voting intention

    CON 20% (+1),
    LAB 19%(+2),
    LDEM 16%(nc),
    RefUK 24%(-2),
    GRN 14%(-2)

    Pollster note that the 24% - pre Zahawi defection - is the lowest for Reform since April. All usual caveats apply - it's one poll, wait to see if it's picked up elsewhere etc, this may just be an outlier. However, it is part of a broad downwards trend in Reform support since what appears to have been their peak around October. That coincides with the Conservative ratings starting some sort of recovery from rock bottom, and the salience of immigration starting to gradually decline on most important issue.
    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2010957530479129035

    Just 10% between top and bottom of 5 different parties is going to test FPTP to its limits.
    Ref UK have a single USP which is disappearing fast. Apart from that all they are known for is disliking forreigners and more recently taking on the detritus of discredited Tory Parties past. I'm struggling to see where their momentum comes from in the next few years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,221

    The Pakistani Thunder fighter jet air forces are lining up to buy
    After excelling in combat, the JF-17 flies off shelves, giving Islamabad’s export industry a major boost
    ...
    Low in cost, high in performance, the jets were tested in combat against India as the two nuclear powers went to war in May. The JF-17 excelled against India’s French-made Rafales, and now other countries are lining up to buy their own.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/01/13/pakistani-fighter-jet-air-forces-want-to-buy/ (£££)

    It was arguably the combination of their Saab AWACS, and the (unexpectedly) long range of the Chinese PL-15 missile that surprised the IAF.
    The JF-17 is certainly cost effective, but is possibly over hyped.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,186

    Reflecting on Nadhim Zahawi's defection to Reform, I'm really struggling to conclude that it will add a single vote for them. Is anybody really going to think: "Oh, now Nadhim has crossed over, I'm definitely going to vote Reform".
    Given his background, however, it may lose them a few.

    Specifically, yes. But it keeps Reform in the news as being a direction of travel when their polling has been dipping.

    Heaven forbid there should be a link between who they are attracting and that dip in the polls....
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