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Ed Miliband is 33/1 to be the next Chancellor – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,853
edited December 20 in General
Ed Miliband is 33/1 to be the next Chancellor – politicalbetting.com

? EXC: Miliband ‘pitching himself as next chancellor’Energy Secretary allegedly ‘auditioned’ for role while giving speech in Commons about cost of living crisishttps://t.co/tZhAwxH1AC

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  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,041
    First.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,296
    edited December 20
    Bloody good odds at 33 I would say.

    But not on BF therefor I'm out.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,194
    If Ed Miliband is looking to be Chancellor he is showing some sense. He would probably do a better job of it than Reeves and get to grips with the economic detail but he doesn't have the charisma Streeting or Burnham have who would be better replacements of Starmer as Labour leader
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,194
    Talking of Reeves 'Rachel Reeves has been barred from her local pub because of her crippling tax rises bringing the hospitality industry to its knees.

    Landlord Martin Knowles has told the Chancellor not to try to enjoy a festive pint in the Marsh Inn in her Leeds constituency after he was hit with a £2,500 hike in business rates.

    The Chancellor posed with Mr Knowles in his pub last July, soon after she took over at the Treasury following Labour's election victory, but now the publican has put up a sign making clear that all Labour MPs, including Ms Reeves, are not welcome on his premises.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15402603/Youre-barred-Furious-landlord-bans-Rachel-Reeves-local-pub-Chancellors-tax-hikes-crippling-hospitality-industry.html
  • Bloody good odds at 33 I would say.

    But not on BF for I'm out.

    Yeah, I've had a cheeky tenner on it.
  • HYUFD said:

    Massive breaking global news story tonight!!

    'UNFRIEND IT LIKE BECKHAM Fresh twist in Beckham family feud as David and Victoria unfollow son Brooklyn on Instagram after snub from brothers.
    It comes after their sons Romeo, 23, and Cruz, 20, unfollowed their brother and his wife on the app in July.

    A source said: “This is the ultimate snub in 2025 – it shows just how deep their rift is.”

    The source pointed ohttps://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/37697315/brooklyn-beckham-unfollows-david-victoria-instagram-family-feud/

    Can we go back to arguing about trans trains, please?
    The Pick-a-Willy Line?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,540
    edited December 20
    Phew, despite the threats, we've dodged *that* Farage photo.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,296
    HYUFD said:

    If Ed Miliband is looking to be Chancellor he is showing some sense. He would probably do a better job of it than Reeves and get to grips with the economic detail but he doesn't have the charisma Streeting or Burnham have who would be better replacements of Starmer as Labour leader

    Be difficult to make a worse job of it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,976
    Sounds like a decent shout.
  • If Ed Miliband is the answer, you're asking the wrong question!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,540

    HYUFD said:

    If Ed Miliband is looking to be Chancellor he is showing some sense. He would probably do a better job of it than Reeves and get to grips with the economic detail but he doesn't have the charisma Streeting or Burnham have who would be better replacements of Starmer as Labour leader

    Be difficult to make a worse job of it.
    Nadhim Zahawi is on the line.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,540

    HYUFD said:

    Massive breaking global news story tonight!!

    'UNFRIEND IT LIKE BECKHAM Fresh twist in Beckham family feud as David and Victoria unfollow son Brooklyn on Instagram after snub from brothers.
    It comes after their sons Romeo, 23, and Cruz, 20, unfollowed their brother and his wife on the app in July.

    A source said: “This is the ultimate snub in 2025 – it shows just how deep their rift is.”

    The source pointed ohttps://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/37697315/brooklyn-beckham-unfollows-david-victoria-instagram-family-feud/

    Can we go back to arguing about trans trains, please?
    The Pick-a-Willy Line?
    Last day for Pathfinder Tours :frowning:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,582
    edited December 20
    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,296
    The US seemed to have seized a Chinese oil vessel near Venezuela.

    Could get "interesting".



  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 344

    Bloody good odds at 33 I would say.

    But not on BF therefor I'm out.

    Yep, decent odds. Its waaaaay more likely than Reeves making the step up to PM from Second lord (or is it lady) of the treasury.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,107

    HYUFD said:

    Massive breaking global news story tonight!!

    'UNFRIEND IT LIKE BECKHAM Fresh twist in Beckham family feud as David and Victoria unfollow son Brooklyn on Instagram after snub from brothers.
    It comes after their sons Romeo, 23, and Cruz, 20, unfollowed their brother and his wife on the app in July.

    A source said: “This is the ultimate snub in 2025 – it shows just how deep their rift is.”

    The source pointed ohttps://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/37697315/brooklyn-beckham-unfollows-david-victoria-instagram-family-feud/

    Can we go back to arguing about trans trains, please?
    This is the Transport For Wales Class 398 tram-train. Because the network in Wales is multi-mode, it can travel on tracks like a train using onboard batteries, or tracks with overhead power like an electrified train, or tram rails down the road like a tram. It can in fact transition from mode to mode as it travels to and from its destination.

    This would make it a trans tram train

    I thank you (bows to the audience)
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,582
    edited December 20

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,704

    HYUFD said:

    Massive breaking global news story tonight!!

    'UNFRIEND IT LIKE BECKHAM Fresh twist in Beckham family feud as David and Victoria unfollow son Brooklyn on Instagram after snub from brothers.
    It comes after their sons Romeo, 23, and Cruz, 20, unfollowed their brother and his wife on the app in July.

    A source said: “This is the ultimate snub in 2025 – it shows just how deep their rift is.”
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/37697315/brooklyn-beckham-unfollows-david-victoria-instagram-family-feud/

    Who cares and it certainly is not massive breaking global news

    Epstein, US attacking Syria, and arresting another ship in international waters off Venezuala is

    The most mind boggling news though is the family that wheeled a 89 year woman onto an EasyJet flight to Gatwick who was apparently dead, telling the check in staff, it's OK we're doctors and then pretended to talk her as the plane was taking off. Cabin crew smelt a rat and abandoned takeoff

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15398909/British-family-accused-wheeling-DEAD-grandmother-easyJet-flight-Spain-telling-cabin-crew-tired.html
  • MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,000

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
    Why?
  • MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
    Why
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,582
    edited December 20
    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
  • MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
    Why?
    He’s not a BPC registered pollster.

    Doesn’t count for the PB predictions competition for example.
    Are you suggesting his polling is misleading then ?

    To be honest it is not far away from trend other than a closing of the gap between reform and conservatives which I would have thought many would be pleased about
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,000
    edited December 20

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,854
    edited December 20

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
  • MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
    Badennoch has improved by general consent and this is a marathon to take on reform and hopefully pass them

    Most of those going to reform are well suited, but maybe they will end up with egg on their faces by 2029
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,000
    edited December 20
    Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    The trend is probably in line with other pollsters even if the final totals look as dodgy as a beer and curry party in Durham during COVID.

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
    Badennoch has improved by general consent and this is a marathon to take on reform and hopefully pass them

    Most of those going to reform are well suited, but maybe they will end up with egg on their faces by 2029
    The trend might confirm your point, but everything else about the poll looks wrong (for the moment). But if you like it surely that should be good enough for some pre-Christmas cheer for you.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    That seems on trend
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,854

    Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    That seems on trend
    I think the Tories can take the lead next year, with the help of centrist voters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,194

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Gives a very hung parliament with Reform on 239 MPs, the Conservatives 129, the Greens on 78, Labour and the LDs on 63 each and the SNP on 43.

    So Farage would be PM with Badenoch Leader of the Opposition still potentially. However Labour and the LDs, the SNP and Greens combined would be on 247 MPs ie more than either Reform or the Tories.

    So Farage could only become PM with Tory support, Badenoch or whoever was PM could decide to make him PM or could equally abstain in which case no party would have a majority to become PM. You could even get a Tory, Labour and LD grand coalition which would have more MPs combined than Reform and with SNP and Green support to keep out Farage would combined have a majority, maybe with PMs alternating between Labour, Tory and LD Ireland style as between FF and FG to keep out SF
    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,000
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    That seems on trend
    I think the Tories can take the lead next year, with the help of centrist voters.
    How many of us will have forgotton Austerity, Brexit and Boris Johnson by next year? Particularly if you continue your Reform, performative-cruelty agenda. One of the reasons for Labour tanking is their Reform, performative cruelty agenda.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    The trend is probably in line with other pollsters even if the final totals look as dodgy as a beer and curry party in Durham during COVID.

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
    Badennoch has improved by general consent and this is a marathon to take on reform and hopefully pass them

    Most of those going to reform are well suited, but maybe they will end up with egg on their faces by 2029
    The trend might confirm your point, but everything else about the poll looks wrong (for the moment). But if you like it surely that should be good enough for some pre-Christmas cheer for you.
    Any indication that the conservatives are closing the gap on Farage is encouraging

    On checking Lord Ashcrofts polling he is not a BPC member but buys in polling from professional reputable companies typically members of the BPC and the underlying data is generated using standard industry practices
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,296

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    How is the poll weighted?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,854
    If only England hadn't lost those 3 late wickets yesterday they'd have a decent chance of winning today.

    As it is, they need another 222 runs with 4 wickets remaining.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/live/c4gzepgrd2yt#Scorecard
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,107
    edited December 20
    HYUFD said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Gives a very hung parliament with Reform on 239 MPs, the Conservatives 129, the Greens on 78, Labour and the LDs on 63 each and the SNP on 43.

    So Farage would be PM with Badenoch Leader of the Opposition still potentially. However Labour and the LDs, the SNP and Greens combined would be on 247 MPs ie more than either Reform or the Tories.

    So Farage could only become PM with Tory support, Badenoch or whoever was PM could decide to make him PM or could equally abstain in which case no party would have a majority to become PM. You could even get a Tory, Labour and LD grand coalition which would have more MPs combined than Reform and with SNP and Green support to keep out Farage would combined have a majority, maybe with PMs alternating between Labour, Tory and LD Ireland style as between FF and FG to keep out SF
    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
    In recent years, Ireland has dabbled in Fine Gael-Fianna Fail coalitions against Sinn Fein

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_the_34th_Dáil
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_the_33rd_Dáil

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,000

    Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    The trend is probably in line with other pollsters even if the final totals look as dodgy as a beer and curry party in Durham during COVID.

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
    Badennoch has improved by general consent and this is a marathon to take on reform and hopefully pass them

    Most of those going to reform are well suited, but maybe they will end up with egg on their faces by 2029
    The trend might confirm your point, but everything else about the poll looks wrong (for the moment). But if you like it surely that should be good enough for some pre-Christmas cheer for you.
    Any indication that the conservatives are closing the gap on Farage is encouraging

    On checking Lord Ashcrofts polling he is not a BPC member but buys in polling from professional reputable companies typically members of the BPC and the underlying data is generated using standard industry practices
    Not if they plan on being as awful as Team Farage. That is far from encouraging.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,194
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Gives a very hung parliament with Reform on 239 MPs, the Conservatives 129, the Greens on 78, Labour and the LDs on 63 each and the SNP on 43.

    So Farage would be PM with Badenoch Leader of the Opposition still potentially. However Labour and the LDs, the SNP and Greens combined would be on 247 MPs ie more than either Reform or the Tories.

    So Farage could only become PM with Tory support, Badenoch or whoever was PM could decide to make him PM or could equally abstain in which case no party would have a majority to become PM. You could even get a Tory, Labour and LD grand coalition which would have more MPs combined than Reform and with SNP and Green support to keep out Farage would combined have a majority, maybe with PMs alternating between Labour, Tory and LD Ireland style as between FF and FG to keep out SF
    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
    In recent years, Ireland has dabbled in Fine Gael-Fianna Fail coalitions against Sinn Fein

    Yes and the only way it works is alternating PMs between FG and FF. It is not impossible if Cleverly replaced Kemi as Tory leader you could have him and say Burnham, Streeting or Starmer (in the unlikely event he leads Labour into the next GE) alternating the premiership between them with maybe even Davey getting a shot at No 10 too if the LDs also are needed to combined overtake Reform on MPs.

    If Jenrick replaced Kemi as Tory leader he would almost certainly take the Tories into government with Farage and Reform though. Kemi probably would but might equally just abstain, which Cleverly might also do rather than have to form a government with Reform or Labour
  • Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    The trend is probably in line with other pollsters even if the final totals look as dodgy as a beer and curry party in Durham during COVID.

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
    Badennoch has improved by general consent and this is a marathon to take on reform and hopefully pass them

    Most of those going to reform are well suited, but maybe they will end up with egg on their faces by 2029
    The trend might confirm your point, but everything else about the poll looks wrong (for the moment). But if you like it surely that should be good enough for some pre-Christmas cheer for you.
    Any indication that the conservatives are closing the gap on Farage is encouraging

    On checking Lord Ashcrofts polling he is not a BPC member but buys in polling from professional reputable companies typically members of the BPC and the underlying data is generated using standard industry practices
    Not if they plan on being as awful as Team Farage. That is far from encouraging.

    They will take on benefit britain, encourage business and wealth, stop the boats and deal with those not here legally
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,102
    HYUFD said:

    If Ed Miliband is looking to be Chancellor he is showing some sense. He would probably do a better job of it than Reeves and get to grips with the economic detail but he doesn't have the charisma Streeting or Burnham have who would be better replacements of Starmer as Labour leader

    Be careful what you wish for. Ed Miliband is a far left communist, he will put up taxes to such levels that the brain drain will become an exodus of business and talent so he can fund more public spending and welfare.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,734
    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,107

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    That seems on trend
    I think the Tories can take the lead next year, with the help of centrist voters.
    How many of us will have forgotton Austerity, Brexit and Boris Johnson by next year? Particularly if you continue your Reform, performative-cruelty agenda. One of the reasons for Labour tanking is their Reform, performative cruelty agenda.
    @isam posted a link from Ben Ansell which explained the emergence of blocs. Reform performative cruelty politics lies within the right bloc so adopting it helps Kemi. But it doesn't fall within the left bloc, so Starmer going full Enoch lost him support which bled into the other left bloc parties, principally the Greens who mopped up the votes Starmer was pissing away.

    The one who wins is the party who soaks up the votes for their block. A 50/50 split in the right block just results in a lot of second places for Reform & Tories. Kemi has to be aiming for over 30%. She may do it given the time to 2029

    https://benansell.substack.com/p/bloc-parties
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,041
    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    Not bad. Overlabeled in the American fashion, though.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,734
    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    Not bad. Overlabeled in the American fashion, though.
    A lot of early UK political cartoons were much the same - so I'm giving it a break (EXPLANATION HERE)...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,854
    Rain stops play in Adelaide.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,570
    Rain! Just when England were chasing this easy target down...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,329
    @somebluedevil.bsky.social‬

    Okay, they are even Dumber than we thought. They removed the clickable link but not the file‼️
    😆😂🤣

    I just went there and manually put 468 in, it's still there. 🤦

    https://bsky.app/profile/somebluedevil.bsky.social/post/3mah52gs4522q
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,632

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Every party opposed by at least three quarters of the electorate?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,632

    Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    The trend is probably in line with other pollsters even if the final totals look as dodgy as a beer and curry party in Durham during COVID.

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
    Badennoch has improved by general consent and this is a marathon to take on reform and hopefully pass them

    Most of those going to reform are well suited, but maybe they will end up with egg on their faces by 2029
    The trend might confirm your point, but everything else about the poll looks wrong (for the moment). But if you like it surely that should be good enough for some pre-Christmas cheer for you.
    Any indication that the conservatives are closing the gap on Farage is encouraging

    On checking Lord Ashcrofts polling he is not a BPC member but buys in polling from professional reputable companies typically members of the BPC and the underlying data is generated using standard industry practices
    Not if they plan on being as awful as Team Farage. That is far from encouraging.

    They will take on benefit britain, encourage business and wealth, stop the boats and deal with those not here legally
    They failed to do those things when they were last in no. 10.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,632
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Ed Miliband is looking to be Chancellor he is showing some sense. He would probably do a better job of it than Reeves and get to grips with the economic detail but he doesn't have the charisma Streeting or Burnham have who would be better replacements of Starmer as Labour leader

    Be careful what you wish for. Ed Miliband is a far left communist, he will put up taxes to such levels that the brain drain will become an exodus of business and talent so he can fund more public spending and welfare.
    A far left communist? LOL.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,329
    @gadget44027447.bsky.social‬

    🚨 Andrew Tate has been BATTERED and comprehensively beaten by a novice boxer, Chase DeMoor

    https://bsky.app/profile/gadget44027447.bsky.social/post/3mahfgt7qxk22
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,194
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Ed Miliband is looking to be Chancellor he is showing some sense. He would probably do a better job of it than Reeves and get to grips with the economic detail but he doesn't have the charisma Streeting or Burnham have who would be better replacements of Starmer as Labour leader

    Be careful what you wish for. Ed Miliband is a far left communist, he will put up taxes to such levels that the brain drain will become an exodus of business and talent so he can fund more public spending and welfare.
    He isn't, he is not as left as Corbyn and McDonnell were and Reeves is whacking up tax to fund extra welfare anyway
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,866
    Ashcroft poll:

    Should Rayner return to Cabinet?
    Yes 26
    No 57

    Would Rayner be better or worse PM than Starmer?
    Better 14
    Worse 33

    But of course Labour members will vote to make her leader and therefore also PM.

    It’ll be like more welfare in the Budget - they will do the precise opposite of what the public wants. They will cheer wildly while doing the very thing which will guarantee their defeat.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,194
    edited 1:22AM
    MikeL said:

    Ashcroft poll:

    Should Rayner return to Cabinet?
    Yes 26
    No 57

    Would Rayner be better or worse PM than Starmer?
    Better 14
    Worse 33

    But of course Labour members will vote to make her leader and therefore also PM.

    It’ll be like more welfare in the Budget - they will do the precise opposite of what the public wants. They will cheer wildly while doing the very thing which will guarantee their defeat.

    Labour members would back Burnham over Rayner if he returned as an MP

    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1972647566941827415?s=20
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,825
    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    Ashcroft poll:

    Should Rayner return to Cabinet?
    Yes 26
    No 57

    Would Rayner be better or worse PM than Starmer?
    Better 14
    Worse 33

    But of course Labour members will vote to make her leader and therefore also PM.

    It’ll be like more welfare in the Budget - they will do the precise opposite of what the public wants. They will cheer wildly while doing the very thing which will guarantee their defeat.

    Labour members would back Burnham over Rayner if he returned as an MP

    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1972647566941827415?s=20
    Both would lose the next election.
    Rayner is too thick, Burnham too flaky.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,194

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    Ashcroft poll:

    Should Rayner return to Cabinet?
    Yes 26
    No 57

    Would Rayner be better or worse PM than Starmer?
    Better 14
    Worse 33

    But of course Labour members will vote to make her leader and therefore also PM.

    It’ll be like more welfare in the Budget - they will do the precise opposite of what the public wants. They will cheer wildly while doing the very thing which will guarantee their defeat.

    Labour members would back Burnham over Rayner if he returned as an MP

    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1972647566941827415?s=20
    Both would lose the next election.
    Rayner is too thick, Burnham too flaky.
    Burnham leads Farage as preferred PM 33% to 29%, Starmer ties Farage, Farage leads Miliband, Badenoch, Streeting and Polanski as preferred PM
    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/andy-burnham-preferred-keir-starmer-pm-narrowly-leads-nigel-farage
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,570
    edited 1:31AM
    Smith giving away a wicket, just when a tiny smidgeon of hope was offered.

    That's enough for me.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,854
    England are going to get within 100 runs of winning this. How frustrating.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,249

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Every party opposed by at least three quarters of the electorate?
    Wait til they get into power and see their support plummet.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,854
    edited 3:10AM
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,842
    Well there is the death of English cricket.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,324
    edited 5:50AM
    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    AI's obvious error is that they are racing away from the finish line instead of towards it.

    ETA however, that can easily be fixed. The question is whether this means the end of cartoonists' jobs, as per Leon, or the ability of every newsletter, blog or class 5 parents' group to publish its own daily cartoons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,627

    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    AI's obvious error is that they are racing away from the finish line instead of towards it.

    Crawling away from it.
    But is that an error ?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,161

    The US seemed to have seized a Chinese oil vessel near Venezuela.

    Could get "interesting".



    China takes the bulk of Venezuelan crude exports, with estimates around 80–85% of Venezuela’s oil exports in 2025 going to China via long‑term arrangements and discounted heavy crude sales. Iran also supply a lot of crude to China. Perhaps there is something going on there.

    There's a third country that supplies oil to China that is in need of the cash.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,324
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    AI's obvious error is that they are racing away from the finish line instead of towards it.

    Crawling away from it.
    But is that an error ?
    Yes, and if you look closely (as I've only just done) the arrow on the Kemi tortoise is also pointing backwards towards the finish. Either it is too sophisticated for yours truly (and at 6am that can't be ruled out) or AI messed up.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,324
    David Lammy claimed almost £7,000 on expenses for tax returns
    Deputy PM expensed more than any other Cabinet minister for accountancy bills

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/news/david-lammy-claimed-almost-7000-on-expenses-for-tax-returns/ (£££)

    Does this make it more or less likely that Lammy will be next Chancellor? (20/1 in the header.)
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,161

    Andy_JS said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    Changes since previous Ashcroft poll in November:

    Ref -2
    Con +2
    Grn +1
    Lab nc
    LD -1
    The trend is probably in line with other pollsters even if the final totals look as dodgy as a beer and curry party in Durham during COVID.

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    To be honest it doesnt seem too far out

    Maybe @TSE can explain why it should be ignored with apparently 5,195 voters polled
    Reform are way lower. Green are way higher (except for PB's favourite pollster FoN).

    If Ashcroft is correct, just imagine being a Tory MP/ex MP who has jumped ship to the Faragistas from the "winning here" Tories.
    Badennoch has improved by general consent and this is a marathon to take on reform and hopefully pass them

    Most of those going to reform are well suited, but maybe they will end up with egg on their faces by 2029
    The trend might confirm your point, but everything else about the poll looks wrong (for the moment). But if you like it surely that should be good enough for some pre-Christmas cheer for you.
    Any indication that the conservatives are closing the gap on Farage is encouraging

    On checking Lord Ashcrofts polling he is not a BPC member but buys in polling from professional reputable companies typically members of the BPC and the underlying data is generated using standard industry practices
    Not if they plan on being as awful as Team Farage. That is far from encouraging.

    They will take on benefit britain, encourage business and wealth, stop the boats and deal with those not here legally
    I seem to recall they had the opportunity to do that quite recently. How did that turn out?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,324
    Battlebus said:

    The US seemed to have seized a Chinese oil vessel near Venezuela.

    Could get "interesting".



    China takes the bulk of Venezuelan crude exports, with estimates around 80–85% of Venezuela’s oil exports in 2025 going to China via long‑term arrangements and discounted heavy crude sales. Iran also supply a lot of crude to China. Perhaps there is something going on there.

    There's a third country that supplies oil to China that is in need of the cash.
    Conspiracy theory in overdrive: China is not buying much Russian oil; Russia has leant on Trump to block rival sellers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,324
    Wes Streeting: ‘I’m diplomatically ducking the question. This is not a pitch or a job application’
    On a stroll through Hainault forest, the health secretary extols the virtues of Waitrose chocolate biscuits, talks up closer relations with the EU and spoils for a fight with the chancellor over the size of British tax bills

    https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/im-diplomatically-ducking-the-question-this-is-not-a-pitch-or-a-job-application

    The Observer's front page lead is this ‘not a pitch or a job application’ covering Wes's thoughts on the state of the nation, European trade, taxation, even religion and its misuse by the right, with some great, non-AI, photographs of Hainault Forest and an account of his tough childhood and a place at Cambridge thanks to hard work and his dear old mum – hold on, did he say this is not a job application? I'm getting flashbacks of that John Major PPB where he was driven through Brixton on a route that quite accidentally went by his old home.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,919
    edited 6:23AM

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
    You can. For some of us though it is a harbinger of 2026 - The Tories coming back, Reform falling back.

    Has there ever been a poll with the sitting Government in fourth? (I'm aware the Tories came 5th in the 2019 European Parliament election, but that was less of a poll, more a free shot to kick Bishop Brennan up the arse....)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,919

    Battlebus said:

    The US seemed to have seized a Chinese oil vessel near Venezuela.

    Could get "interesting".



    China takes the bulk of Venezuelan crude exports, with estimates around 80–85% of Venezuela’s oil exports in 2025 going to China via long‑term arrangements and discounted heavy crude sales. Iran also supply a lot of crude to China. Perhaps there is something going on there.

    There's a third country that supplies oil to China that is in need of the cash.
    Conspiracy theory in overdrive: China is not buying much Russian oil; Russia has leant on Trump to block rival sellers.
    One of the weirdest things Trump has said - admittedly, it is a very long list - was his declaring that Venezuela had stolen American land.

    Huh? How can the mainstream media just let that nonsense ride?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,324

    Battlebus said:

    The US seemed to have seized a Chinese oil vessel near Venezuela.

    Could get "interesting".



    China takes the bulk of Venezuelan crude exports, with estimates around 80–85% of Venezuela’s oil exports in 2025 going to China via long‑term arrangements and discounted heavy crude sales. Iran also supply a lot of crude to China. Perhaps there is something going on there.

    There's a third country that supplies oil to China that is in need of the cash.
    Conspiracy theory in overdrive: China is not buying much Russian oil; Russia has leant on Trump to block rival sellers.
    One of the weirdest things Trump has said - admittedly, it is a very long list - was his declaring that Venezuela had stolen American land.

    Huh? How can the mainstream media just let that nonsense ride?
    Trump is talking about the nationalisation of oilfields that were run by American companies. It is the same line that has been used across the American spectrum about Cuba for decades.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,499
    I've no idea who is likely to appoint whom or for what reasons, but myself, I favour the best candidate for the job every time, whether man, woman or donkey.

    Good morning, everybody.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,499
    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    Not bad. Overlabeled in the American fashion, though.
    Labels can be helpful to people like me who can't read pictures, but in this one it takes (me) so long to read the words/decode the images that any humour gets lost.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,499

    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    AI's obvious error is that they are racing away from the finish line instead of towards it.

    ETA however, that can easily be fixed. The question is whether this means the end of cartoonists' jobs, as per Leon, or the ability of every newsletter, blog or class 5 parents' group to publish its own daily cartoons.
    I took it that was intended as part of the joke.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,604

    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    AI's obvious error is that they are racing away from the finish line instead of towards it.

    Crawling away from it.
    But is that an error ?
    Yes, and if you look closely (as I've only just done) the arrow on the Kemi tortoise is also pointing backwards towards the finish. Either it is too sophisticated for yours truly (and at 6am that can't be ruled out) or AI messed up.
    It is of course producing images based on what its search engine is finding as appropriate without remotely understanding what it is producing. A good example of both the strengths and weaknesses of AI.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,305

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
    You can. For some of us though it is a harbinger of 2026 - The Tories coming back, Reform falling back.

    Has there ever been a poll with the sitting Government in fourth? (I'm aware the Tories came 5th in the 2019 European Parliament election, but that was less of a poll, more a free shot to kick Bishop Brennan up the arse....)
    Plenty.

    There’s been a few this year.

    There were some in 2019 as well having the Tories fourth.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,540
    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Based on the header, I thought I'd ask an image-gen model to search the web for UK politics news about the Tories vs. Reform and do a 'classical style UK political cartoon'. It's not dreadful as these thing go.


    Not bad. Overlabeled in the American fashion, though.
    Clearly you’ve never seen any pre-war Punch cartoons.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,085

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
    Does he still do that thing of amalgamating numbers from more than one pollster?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,604
    Also from the Obs, today’s Rawnsley while we wait for the sun to emerge above the horizon…

    It is not just the dire approval ratings that make the Starmer government look so bereft of allies; it is the absence of any visible cheerleaders at Westminster or beyond it. For that, Sir Keir is copping much of the blame from his party. It is not the case that the country has “fallen out of love” with Labour. It was never in love in the first place.

    This is a broadly centrist government led by a serious and hardworking man who is committed to some worthy goals. Which is a terrible combination in our hyper-polarised media environment. The achievements it can fairly claim get next to no attention while its blunders receive maximum magnification.

    He is also grappling with the systemic challenge that has defeated so many governments in the affluent world since the crippling financial crisis of 2007-09. How do you satisfy public demand for decent state services at reasonable levels of taxation when growth is so anaemic? The doom loop of higher taxes for unsatisfactory services feeds the corrosion of trust in the state and its ability to deliver.

    There’s a compelling case that the defining political event of the past 12 months came in the summer when No 10 and the Treasury combined in an effort to curb the ballooning cost of disability benefits, only to be forced into an abject and authority-shredding retreat by their own backbenchers. Those who hated the idea of welfare reform liked the government no better for the fact that it was forced to capitulate. Those who think we need welfare reform despaired that the government proved incapable of implementing it. There was another chaotic tale surrounding the budget…. [which] became a spirit-sapping feel-bad affair about leaks and accusations of misrepresentation.

    It’s an unmerry Christmas for those in power. As you gather in what I hope is the warm embrace of your loved ones, spare a thought for our sadly cheerless and friendless government.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,499
    IanB2 said:

    Also from the Obs, today’s Rawnsley while we wait for the sun to emerge above the horizon…

    It is not just the dire approval ratings that make the Starmer government look so bereft of allies; it is the absence of any visible cheerleaders at Westminster or beyond it. For that, Sir Keir is copping much of the blame from his party. It is not the case that the country has “fallen out of love” with Labour. It was never in love in the first place.

    This is a broadly centrist government led by a serious and hardworking man who is committed to some worthy goals. Which is a terrible combination in our hyper-polarised media environment. The achievements it can fairly claim get next to no attention while its blunders receive maximum magnification.

    He is also grappling with the systemic challenge that has defeated so many governments in the affluent world since the crippling financial crisis of 2007-09. How do you satisfy public demand for decent state services at reasonable levels of taxation when growth is so anaemic? The doom loop of higher taxes for unsatisfactory services feeds the corrosion of trust in the state and its ability to deliver.

    There’s a compelling case that the defining political event of the past 12 months came in the summer when No 10 and the Treasury combined in an effort to curb the ballooning cost of disability benefits, only to be forced into an abject and authority-shredding retreat by their own backbenchers. Those who hated the idea of welfare reform liked the government no better for the fact that it was forced to capitulate. Those who think we need welfare reform despaired that the government proved incapable of implementing it. There was another chaotic tale surrounding the budget…. [which] became a spirit-sapping feel-bad affair about leaks and accusations of misrepresentation.

    It’s an unmerry Christmas for those in power. As you gather in what I hope is the warm embrace of your loved ones, spare a thought for our sadly cheerless and friendless government.

    But at least we've arrived at the shortest day.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,604
    edited 8:13AM

    Wes Streeting: ‘I’m diplomatically ducking the question. This is not a pitch or a job application’
    On a stroll through Hainault forest, the health secretary extols the virtues of Waitrose chocolate biscuits, talks up closer relations with the EU and spoils for a fight with the chancellor over the size of British tax bills

    https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/im-diplomatically-ducking-the-question-this-is-not-a-pitch-or-a-job-application

    The Observer's front page lead is this ‘not a pitch or a job application’ covering Wes's thoughts on the state of the nation, European trade, taxation, even religion and its misuse by the right, with some great, non-AI, photographs of Hainault Forest and an account of his tough childhood and a place at Cambridge thanks to hard work and his dear old mum – hold on, did he say this is not a job application? I'm getting flashbacks of that John Major PPB where he was driven through Brixton on a route that quite accidentally went by his old home.

    He’s cleverly found a distinctive (for Labour) pitch he can make that would have significant appeal to Labour’s members, which doesn’t involve becoming more left wing:

    As we enter the forest, he signals that he would like the UK to join a customs union with the European Union. “We’ve taken a massive economic hit leaving the European Union. I’m really uncomfortable with the level of taxation in this country. We’re asking a lot of individual taxpayers, we’re asking a lot of businesses. We’ve got a level of indebtedness that we need to take very seriously,” he says. “The best way for us to get more growth into our economy is a deeper trading relationship with the EU.”
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,305

    MelonB said:

    Mail on Sunday featuring an end of year survey by Lord Ashcroft poll has the conservatives within 3 of reform and labour 4th

    Reform. 25%
    Conservatives 22%
    Greens. 19%
    Labour 18%
    Lib dems 10%

    Poll of 5,195 voters between 11th and 15th December

    That’s way out from other polls. Reform significantly lower, Greens within touching distance of first, Tories higher, Lib Dems much lower. Looks odd to me.

    That said, LLG 47 RefCon 47 is not a million miles away from the other pollsters.
    We can ignore the Lord Ashcroft poll.
    Does he still do that thing of amalgamating numbers from more than one pollster?
    We don’t know.

    If he was BPC registered we would know.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,961
    My nephew is in hospital at moment with RSV and complications. His care definitely seems substandard.

    Terrible time for the junior doctors to strike. Feel very angry they've done this now during winter flu crisis.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,604
    AnneJGP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Also from the Obs, today’s Rawnsley while we wait for the sun to emerge above the horizon…

    It is not just the dire approval ratings that make the Starmer government look so bereft of allies; it is the absence of any visible cheerleaders at Westminster or beyond it. For that, Sir Keir is copping much of the blame from his party. It is not the case that the country has “fallen out of love” with Labour. It was never in love in the first place.

    This is a broadly centrist government led by a serious and hardworking man who is committed to some worthy goals. Which is a terrible combination in our hyper-polarised media environment. The achievements it can fairly claim get next to no attention while its blunders receive maximum magnification.

    He is also grappling with the systemic challenge that has defeated so many governments in the affluent world since the crippling financial crisis of 2007-09. How do you satisfy public demand for decent state services at reasonable levels of taxation when growth is so anaemic? The doom loop of higher taxes for unsatisfactory services feeds the corrosion of trust in the state and its ability to deliver.

    There’s a compelling case that the defining political event of the past 12 months came in the summer when No 10 and the Treasury combined in an effort to curb the ballooning cost of disability benefits, only to be forced into an abject and authority-shredding retreat by their own backbenchers. Those who hated the idea of welfare reform liked the government no better for the fact that it was forced to capitulate. Those who think we need welfare reform despaired that the government proved incapable of implementing it. There was another chaotic tale surrounding the budget…. [which] became a spirit-sapping feel-bad affair about leaks and accusations of misrepresentation.

    It’s an unmerry Christmas for those in power. As you gather in what I hope is the warm embrace of your loved ones, spare a thought for our sadly cheerless and friendless government.

    But at least we've arrived at the shortest day.
    Officially at a smidgin past 3pm this afternoon. But we already nearly have a couple of minutes’ more daylight in the evenings than nine days back
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,094
    This has probably be linked before but just in case, Matt is back on form

    https://x.com/MattCartoonist/status/2002413939578085660

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,149
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/21/denmark-postnord-postal-delivery-letters-society

    Have we discussed this? Denmark PO no longer delivering letters, despite (a) they becoming more popular with the young, (b) the government having a legal obligation to ensure this option so it has to use a courier without letterboxes, and (c) a non-trivial percentage requiring the government to send communications on paper (despite this being an opt-out, which makes me wonder how many have realised in the first place ...).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,325
    rkrkrk said:

    My nephew is in hospital at moment with RSV and complications. His care definitely seems substandard.

    Terrible time for the junior doctors to strike. Feel very angry they've done this now during winter flu crisis.

    Hope he's ok. Agree entirely on the strike.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,731
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/21/denmark-postnord-postal-delivery-letters-society

    Have we discussed this? Denmark PO no longer delivering letters, despite (a) they becoming more popular with the young, (b) the government having a legal obligation to ensure this option so it has to use a courier without letterboxes, and (c) a non-trivial percentage requiring the government to send communications on paper (despite this being an opt-out, which makes me wonder how many have realised in the first place ...).

    I mentioned this some weeks ago. The post boxes are being removed all over the country.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,094
    IanB2 said:

    Also from the Obs, today’s Rawnsley while we wait for the sun to emerge above the horizon…

    It is not just the dire approval ratings that make the Starmer government look so bereft of allies; it is the absence of any visible cheerleaders at Westminster or beyond it. For that, Sir Keir is copping much of the blame from his party. It is not the case that the country has “fallen out of love” with Labour. It was never in love in the first place.

    This is a broadly centrist government led by a serious and hardworking man who is committed to some worthy goals. Which is a terrible combination in our hyper-polarised media environment. The achievements it can fairly claim get next to no attention while its blunders receive maximum magnification.

    He is also grappling with the systemic challenge that has defeated so many governments in the affluent world since the crippling financial crisis of 2007-09. How do you satisfy public demand for decent state services at reasonable levels of taxation when growth is so anaemic? The doom loop of higher taxes for unsatisfactory services feeds the corrosion of trust in the state and its ability to deliver.

    There’s a compelling case that the defining political event of the past 12 months came in the summer when No 10 and the Treasury combined in an effort to curb the ballooning cost of disability benefits, only to be forced into an abject and authority-shredding retreat by their own backbenchers. Those who hated the idea of welfare reform liked the government no better for the fact that it was forced to capitulate. Those who think we need welfare reform despaired that the government proved incapable of implementing it. There was another chaotic tale surrounding the budget…. [which] became a spirit-sapping feel-bad affair about leaks and accusations of misrepresentation.

    It’s an unmerry Christmas for those in power. As you gather in what I hope is the warm embrace of your loved ones, spare a thought for our sadly cheerless and friendless government.

    Suppose Rawnsley is right about worthy goals and hard working and all that. They are undone by the most terrible communications. At 7 am this morning R4 led on a plan to ban trail hounds. For the first time in a million years we in rural north Cumberland have a Labour MP, and he's good. He has lost the whip because he opposes IHT on farms (it's Rory's old seat). They are trying hard to lose my vote.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,161
    About this 'Cost of Living' crisis. The UK's go to measure is "Index of Multiple Deprivation" or IMD. There is a new 2025 set of indices to compare to the previous 2019 ones. If you compare the movements in the index between the two sets compared to constituencies, you'll find that the Labour areas did best over the past 6 years while the Conservative, Reform and Independents areas saw declines in their wealth. (Small numbers for Reform and Independents)

    So 'Levelling Up' seems to have had a benefit economically but not politically. The other point of note is the strong correlation between Independents and Reform in poorer areas. Labour won the 20 poorest (IMD definition) seats but Reform and Independents were almost always 2nd party in those seats. So if things don't improve economically, you could argue that Reform/Independents will succeed at the expense of the other parties.


  • TazTaz Posts: 23,203
    IanB2 said:

    Also from the Obs, today’s Rawnsley while we wait for the sun to emerge above the horizon…

    It is not just the dire approval ratings that make the Starmer government look so bereft of allies; it is the absence of any visible cheerleaders at Westminster or beyond it. For that, Sir Keir is copping much of the blame from his party. It is not the case that the country has “fallen out of love” with Labour. It was never in love in the first place.

    This is a broadly centrist government led by a serious and hardworking man who is committed to some worthy goals. Which is a terrible combination in our hyper-polarised media environment. The achievements it can fairly claim get next to no attention while its blunders receive maximum magnification.

    He is also grappling with the systemic challenge that has defeated so many governments in the affluent world since the crippling financial crisis of 2007-09. How do you satisfy public demand for decent state services at reasonable levels of taxation when growth is so anaemic? The doom loop of higher taxes for unsatisfactory services feeds the corrosion of trust in the state and its ability to deliver.

    There’s a compelling case that the defining political event of the past 12 months came in the summer when No 10 and the Treasury combined in an effort to curb the ballooning cost of disability benefits, only to be forced into an abject and authority-shredding retreat by their own backbenchers. Those who hated the idea of welfare reform liked the government no better for the fact that it was forced to capitulate. Those who think we need welfare reform despaired that the government proved incapable of implementing it. There was another chaotic tale surrounding the budget…. [which] became a spirit-sapping feel-bad affair about leaks and accusations of misrepresentation.

    It’s an unmerry Christmas for those in power. As you gather in what I hope is the warm embrace of your loved ones, spare a thought for our sadly cheerless and friendless government.

    Nah, fuck them. They made their bed. Weak leadership and a govt without any vision or capability to do what is needed. The people at the top are more concerned at keeping themselves in their positions of power than anything else.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,053
    IanB2 said:

    Also from the Obs, today’s Rawnsley while we wait for the sun to emerge above the horizon…

    It is not just the dire approval ratings that make the Starmer government look so bereft of allies; it is the absence of any visible cheerleaders at Westminster or beyond it. For that, Sir Keir is copping much of the blame from his party. It is not the case that the country has “fallen out of love” with Labour. It was never in love in the first place.

    This is a broadly centrist government led by a serious and hardworking man who is committed to some worthy goals. Which is a terrible combination in our hyper-polarised media environment. The achievements it can fairly claim get next to no attention while its blunders receive maximum magnification.

    He is also grappling with the systemic challenge that has defeated so many governments in the affluent world since the crippling financial crisis of 2007-09. How do you satisfy public demand for decent state services at reasonable levels of taxation when growth is so anaemic? The doom loop of higher taxes for unsatisfactory services feeds the corrosion of trust in the state and its ability to deliver.

    There’s a compelling case that the defining political event of the past 12 months came in the summer when No 10 and the Treasury combined in an effort to curb the ballooning cost of disability benefits, only to be forced into an abject and authority-shredding retreat by their own backbenchers. Those who hated the idea of welfare reform liked the government no better for the fact that it was forced to capitulate. Those who think we need welfare reform despaired that the government proved incapable of implementing it. There was another chaotic tale surrounding the budget…. [which] became a spirit-sapping feel-bad affair about leaks and accusations of misrepresentation.

    It’s an unmerry Christmas for those in power. As you gather in what I hope is the warm embrace of your loved ones, spare a thought for our sadly cheerless and friendless government.

    The problem with welfare reform was summed up by a conversation recorded in the Brandreth diaries.

    Marcus Fox: We could cut a billion off welfare, easy.

    Peter Lilley: That means taking a thousand pounds from a million poor families. It's not easy.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,731
    A brief thought on the cricket - I don't think there's as much between us and the Australians as the whining and moaning of the "experts" suggests. It would be nice to get some objective analysis rather than the emotional tripe from people who spend too much time watching cricket.

    I thought we did well today to get the margin to under 100 runs and I wouldn't be surprised if we won one of the last two tests. I follow a football team which often loses and they lose not because of a lack of ability but because individuals make poor choices under pressure - in cricket, that means poor shot selection with the bat, in football that means getting it wrong in defence and allowing the opposition to put the ball in the back of the net.

    Perhaps it is the human element after all - all the coaching, training, sports development and the like can't stop human nature and sometimes we do what we do because we are who we are.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,540
    stodge said:

    A brief thought on the cricket - I don't think there's as much between us and the Australians as the whining and moaning of the "experts" suggests. It would be nice to get some objective analysis rather than the emotional tripe from people who spend too much time watching cricket.

    I thought we did well today to get the margin to under 100 runs and I wouldn't be surprised if we won one of the last two tests. I follow a football team which often loses and they lose not because of a lack of ability but because individuals make poor choices under pressure - in cricket, that means poor shot selection with the bat, in football that means getting it wrong in defence and allowing the opposition to put the ball in the back of the net.

    Perhaps it is the human element after all - all the coaching, training, sports development and the like can't stop human nature and sometimes we do what we do because we are who we are.

    The issue is not that they make poor shot choices - it's that they keep doing it and as a result keep throwing away matches they should have won.

    Without Lyon, Cummins and Smith we might win one of the last two Tests. But in a sense I actually hope we don't because it will serve to obscure the magnitude of the failings.

    And make no mistake, this tour has been a mess. The Bashir situation alone demands a serious reckoning for the management,
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,094
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    More bleating from the hospitality industry and some petty spite planning to "ban Labour MPs" from pubs, restaurants etc.

    I've very little sympathy - there are two aspects to the whingeing. First, the NI increases - well, all businesses have had to pay for the elephant trap laid for the incoming Government by Sunak and Hunt.

    Second, the ending of business rate relief - this was introduced by the Conservatives in 2020 during COVID (and rightly so given no one could go out initially and the virus spreader Eat Out to Help Out was a politically motivated catastrophe) but instead of a rapid removal after a year or two it was left in place for a five year timeframe and of course Reeves and Starmer have been left holding that grenade when it exploded.

    I suppose Reeves could have continued with the business rates relief (not quite sure why she didn't and that's her political error) but rather like Council Tax, the political pain of revaluation isn't worth it so the sleeping dog can remain unmolested in the lounge bar by the fire.

    The other side of the argument is the hospitality industry has or should have prospered from reduced business rates in a way other businesses (presumably) haven't and the end of the relief has been akin to Cleese and Palin at the end of the fish slapping dance.

    Nonetheless, it's quite clear a lot of this is simply playing politics - I've not for instance heard Badenoch or Stride commit to restoring the Business Rates relief at 2020 levels should they get into power next time (and Reform's position on this is also unknown). Pubs and restaurants can choose who they wish to serve but this is petty and vindictive and one could argue it was well known the relief would last only five years.

    In rural and less well off and less touristy areas it is obvious just from day to day experience that hospitality, pubs etc are in big trouble. Minimum wage and other employment costs have hit hard and pubs etc are dropping out rapidly.

    A minimum wage of £25K+ may make sense in Hampstead, but not in a lot of rural areas. It's also hitting casual young people work hard.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,053
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    More bleating from the hospitality industry and some petty spite planning to "ban Labour MPs" from pubs, restaurants etc.

    I've very little sympathy - there are two aspects to the whingeing. First, the NI increases - well, all businesses have had to pay for the elephant trap laid for the incoming Government by Sunak and Hunt.

    Second, the ending of business rate relief - this was introduced by the Conservatives in 2020 during COVID (and rightly so given no one could go out initially and the virus spreader Eat Out to Help Out was a politically motivated catastrophe) but instead of a rapid removal after a year or two it was left in place for a five year timeframe and of course Reeves and Starmer have been left holding that grenade when it exploded.

    I suppose Reeves could have continued with the business rates relief (not quite sure why she didn't and that's her political error) but rather like Council Tax, the political pain of revaluation isn't worth it so the sleeping dog can remain unmolested in the lounge bar by the fire.

    The other side of the argument is the hospitality industry has or should have prospered from reduced business rates in a way other businesses (presumably) haven't and the end of the relief has been akin to Cleese and Palin at the end of the fish slapping dance.

    Nonetheless, it's quite clear a lot of this is simply playing politics - I've not for instance heard Badenoch or Stride commit to restoring the Business Rates relief at 2020 levels should they get into power next time (and Reform's position on this is also unknown). Pubs and restaurants can choose who they wish to serve but this is petty and vindictive and one could argue it was well known the relief would last only five years.

    Free market fiscal rectitude is always for thee, not me. See the attitude of ferociously Thatcherite taxi drivers to having their cartel broken up.

    Besides, everyone knows that adding low-value added jobs that have to be done by cheap imported labour is part of a problem. So we need to remove those jobs, don't we?
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