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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,049
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    I don't think burning the accused to death at the stake is within the range of their powers.
    He will be rightly killed in prison with any luck like Ian Watkins was.
    Quite likely but this is another failure of the criminal justice system if it cannot keep inmates (and staff) safe from attacks or gang or Islamist recruitment (often as a sort of protection racket against violence).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,170
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The end of the sentence left hanging, but pretty obviously “…not Britain”.

    Bizarre though when a. The Soviet Union was the ally, not Russia, and b. It was a communist state that outlawed organised religion.
    It is not bizarre. It is a collection of the worlds richest billionaires working out how they can share the most power. Religion and politics are tools not objectives.
    It's still rank stupidity, even in that context.
    The voice of experience:

    https://x.com/Billbrowder/status/1995051199259635921
    The Wall Street Journal alleges that the real motivation behind Trump’s eagerness to force Ukraine into an ugly surrender is the idea that a lot of people close to him can make a lot of money doing business and deals in Russia.

    If this is true, beyond the disgusting morality of this and the huge geopolitical risks that it creates, none of these people salivating over their future riches are going to make a penny, and perhaps do a lot worse.

    I was once the largest foreign investor in Russia and I can say with certainty that the Russians aren’t going to let anyone profit in any way. They will talk nice at the outset to attract the investment, but once it’s there, they will steal, defraud, arrest, torture or even kill to make sure that no American makes any money. I’ve seen it so many times it’s almost universal.

    So, this shocking initiative is not only terrible policy, it’s spectacularly stupid business.
    Perhaps. But on the other hand, Bill Browder wasn't besties with a US President who saw his office as a means to self-enrichment, and foreign policy as a way to settle personal scores.

    When American investors have the US military at their back the outcome might be somewhat different, although as mafia boss fallings-out go, that would be epic.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,965
    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    I swear to God they are going to end up invading us... :(
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,072
    Always said HSBC are a joke of an institution who have, inter alia, been the bankers for the IRGC, drug dealers, and other criminals.

    HSBC snubs George Osborne to name ex-KPMG partner as chairman

    Former chancellor misses out as the bank hands the reins to interim chair Brendan Nelson


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/12/03/hsbc-snubs-george-osborne-appoint-ex-kpmg-partner-chairman/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,036

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    I don't think burning the accused to death at the stake is within the range of their powers.
    I'm wondering what to make of that post. Are you seriously suggesting that burning at the stake should be an acceptable punishment in this case? Or any case, indeed?
    I think @DavidL is pointing out that

    - a jury would might want that punishment inflicted
    - They can’t have it

    Sentencing is extremely constrained by the guidelines. You can find them online.

    You can work out the sentencing yourself, if you like. They are written in fairly simple English and generally don’t require arcane legal knowledge to understand.

    They are a part of the justice system that I agree with - public, understandable and quite reasonable, really.

    And if you read sentencing remarks for various cases, they are peppered with references to the sentencing guidelines - severity classification, mitigation (if any) etc.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,081
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    I swear to God they are going to end up invading us... :(
    Are you Canadian or a Greenlander ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,922
    edited 2:13PM

    Always said HSBC are a joke of an institution who have, inter alia, been the bankers for the IRGC, drug dealers, and other criminals.

    HSBC snubs George Osborne to name ex-KPMG partner as chairman

    Former chancellor misses out as the bank hands the reins to interim chair Brendan Nelson


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/12/03/hsbc-snubs-george-osborne-appoint-ex-kpmg-partner-chairman/

    One of the few banks that avoided a bailout or being nationalised or needing a credit guarantee loan in 2008 though. Brendan Nelson is a qualified Chartered Accountant with lots of City experience so probably looks the best choice. Osborne has his Chancellor experience and a few board roles but studied History not Economics and does not have an MBA, or banking or accountancy qualifications
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,081
    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203

    malcolmg said:

    In case you've not seen last night's football and the greatest overhead kick goal in history, scored by Cristian Romero for Spurs.

    https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1995980346756632963

    Mctominay goal was far superior to that by a mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dscBHT-kI
    McTominay’s goal wasn’t even the best goal in that game.
    I've checked out the Romero goal and can confirm that @malcolmg is correct: McTominay's goal was far superior.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,477
    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    You were better off not knowing who she is.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 342

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    The chances of Kemi stepping down are dropping rapidly. She's already got the Tories regularly ahead of Labour. If she can start reducing the gap to Reform, she'll be kept on.
    In the last 20 polls on the Wikipedia page, the Tories are ahead of Labour on 5, tied on 3, and behind on 12.
    How about the last 10?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,081

    malcolmg said:

    In case you've not seen last night's football and the greatest overhead kick goal in history, scored by Cristian Romero for Spurs.

    https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1995980346756632963

    Mctominay goal was far superior to that by a mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dscBHT-kI
    McTominay’s goal wasn’t even the best goal in that game.
    I've checked out the Romero goal and can confirm that @malcolmg is correct: McTominay's goal was far superior.
    I believe TSE was engaging in mild sarcasm.
    Though it's football, so WDIK ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,072
    edited 2:16PM

    malcolmg said:

    In case you've not seen last night's football and the greatest overhead kick goal in history, scored by Cristian Romero for Spurs.

    https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1995980346756632963

    Mctominay goal was far superior to that by a mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dscBHT-kI
    McTominay’s goal wasn’t even the best goal in that game.
    I've checked out the Romero goal and can confirm that @malcolmg is correct: McTominay's goal was far superior.
    Nah, the beauty of the Romero goal is that he shins it and it dribbles in.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,036
    Navy stuff

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/minister-rules-out-two-power-standard-for-royal-navy/

    So presumably, by ruling out a return to the Two Power Standard (RN bigger than the next 2 navies), we are on the successive standard of having a fleet 60% bigger than the next naval power.

    So 18 aircraft carriers are required.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,056

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    A new build near me. The back garden will have a similar drop! The site slopes badly and the original plan was to use the slope to build 'hobbit houses' part built into the slope. Someone must have pointed out, they'd never sell so they have been removed from the plan.

    Locals had been fighting developments here for decades based on the poor layout of the site and the lack of capacity at the sewage treatment plan but this was overruled by the council. Hope those at the bottom of the slope have good drainage as the runoffs here when it rains can be biblical.



  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,487
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    You were better off not knowing who she is.
    She has a handful of pleasant enough singalong songs. My youngest daughter recently introduced me to her work.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,049
    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    She's a popular beat combo, m'lud.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,081
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    You were better off not knowing who she is.
    72m views for a tweet telling the White House to eff off is a laudable achievement.

    The MAGA social media game isn't what it was.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,940
    Enjoyed this bit of economic history:
    https://www.theargumentmag.com/p/this-is-how-you-get-nazis

    Tl:dr -> austerity not hyperinflation led to the rise of the Nazis/far right.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,159
    Six months ago, Kemi was as unpopular as Sir Keir


  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,056

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The end of the sentence left hanging, but pretty obviously “…not Britain”.

    Bizarre though when a. The Soviet Union was the ally, not Russia, and b. It was a communist state that outlawed organised religion.
    It is not bizarre. It is a collection of the worlds richest billionaires working out how they can share the most power. Religion and politics are tools not objectives.
    Are they different? Surely religion is a political construct where those interpreting 'the word' hold the power over the adherents. Any that dare challenge that power are dealt with.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203
    Why do they draw the Rugby World Cup so early? It's nearly two years away, the team rankings could be very different in October 2027 to the seedings used for the draw.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,389

    Always said HSBC are a joke of an institution who have, inter alia, been the bankers for the IRGC, drug dealers, and other criminals.

    HSBC snubs George Osborne to name ex-KPMG partner as chairman

    Former chancellor misses out as the bank hands the reins to interim chair Brendan Nelson


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/12/03/hsbc-snubs-george-osborne-appoint-ex-kpmg-partner-chairman/

    But it turns out they do have some standards.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853
    edited 2:40PM

    Carnyx said:

    Someone's Waterloo, then, but whose?

    And who would is Wellington and who would be Blücher?
    I was thinking more Napoleon, who used LBA as his HQ.

    (Sorry for the delay - was finishing several jobs this morning.)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,156
    Good afternoon everyone!

    Can some colleague of a techie disposition help me, I wonder.
    I have a Mac desktop, an iPhone and an iPad. I can access pb on the latter, but, alas, no longer on the desktop or the iPhone.
    Anyone an idea why? The desktop message is that “Safari can’t open the page!
    The BBC and Guardian pages, for example, open normally. As does Facebook.

    Comments and advice, especially the latter, very welcome.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
    Except that’s not true, Thatcher picked her battles wisely.

    For example she caved into the miners in 1981 because the government wasn’t ready for a strike, by 1984 the government was well prepared and crushed the miners.
    Thatcher still fought the miners unions but yes she was clever enough to know when she was ready to go on the attack and when she needed to build resources first
    TSE is absolutely right. I have studied Lady Thatcher, I feel I know Lady Thatcher, and Kemi Badenoch ain’t no Lady Thatcher.

    Kemi and her team need to go back and study Lady Thatcher in 70s and 80s and learn that it was all based on substance.

    All Kemi and her team are doing is the Farage waving angry fist tactic, which only Reform can get away with precisely because they are not Labour or the Conservatives, who are the ones Farage is waving his angry fist at for their time in government.

    I’ll give you classic example of this difference, Kemi more Farage than Thatcher from just over an hour ago. Well if you can look beyond how angry and salty Kemi is coming across to what she is actually saying, the attack line at PMQs was to bash Starmer with media report an unnamed minster complained about being beaten up and done over by Reeves as she built the additional headroom and borrowing repayment the markets loved and the 2 child cap lift sop for own party at same time.

    If you can’t see what is wrong with that let me explain it. When Kemi is PM she will actually want her chancellor to strong arm cabinet colleagues to build the budget war chest that builds additional headroom pays off borrowing the market loves and the tax cut sop to her own party.

    What you are praising isn’t actual substance, it’s just fluff the growth industry of political media likes.

    Seeing Nigel’s angry fist waved at them and in turn waving their own angry fist at Labour does won’t work for the Conservatives. They need to be for something, they need to be distinct, they need policy differentials. They need to stop living in the moment and work NOW on that distinct and for something identity 3rd May 2029.

    Edit. Going out to talk to sheep, they have more political acumen.
    Watch they don't pull the wool over your eyes.
    Or have three children*.


    *at once.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,897

    Good afternoon everyone!

    Can some colleague of a techie disposition help me, I wonder.
    I have a Mac desktop, an iPhone and an iPad. I can access pb on the latter, but, alas, no longer on the desktop or the iPhone.
    Anyone an idea why? The desktop message is that “Safari can’t open the page!
    The BBC and Guardian pages, for example, open normally. As does Facebook.

    Comments and advice, especially the latter, very welcome.

    Next time buy Samsung?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,654
    edited 2:46PM

    Good afternoon everyone!

    Can some colleague of a techie disposition help me, I wonder.
    I have a Mac desktop, an iPhone and an iPad. I can access pb on the latter, but, alas, no longer on the desktop or the iPhone.
    Anyone an idea why? The desktop message is that “Safari can’t open the page!
    The BBC and Guardian pages, for example, open normally. As does Facebook.

    Comments and advice, especially the latter, very welcome.

    Does the Vanilla link work?

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/

    Click on this, don’t try to copy and paste.

    On the laptop, try to open a “Private Browser” in Safari (from the File menu at the top of the screen), and see if the site opens from there. You’ll need to log in again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203
    rkrkrk said:

    Enjoyed this bit of economic history:
    https://www.theargumentmag.com/p/this-is-how-you-get-nazis

    Tl:dr -> austerity not hyperinflation led to the rise of the Nazis/far right.

    Grrr - I've just spent 15 mins trying to access this by setting up a new limited free views account but no, nothing I try will let me read this article without a paid subscription.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853

    DougSeal said:

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    Freeze the pension and legislate for financial penalties if the hearing finds culpability post departure would be a better option.
    Hmmm.

    I was thinking more of impalement combined with crucifixion, while waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

    But your suggestion can go on The List.
    Would be a cruel and unusual punishment given the length of time of some public inquiries, many of which the involvement of any particular PC Murdoch is only incidental.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,568
    isam said:

    Six months ago, Kemi was as unpopular as Sir Keir


    Will she get crossover with Nigel? What will that mean?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,347
    JohnO said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    I don't think burning the accused to death at the stake is within the range of their powers.
    I'm wondering what to make of that post. Are you seriously suggesting that burning at the stake should be an acceptable punishment in this case? Or any case, indeed?
    For cyclists ignoring pedestrian red lights, it should be mandatory.
    I believe it is already mandatory for cyclists to ignore red lights... oh, that's not what you meant!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,518
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The end of the sentence left hanging, but pretty obviously “…not Britain”.

    Bizarre though when a. The Soviet Union was the ally, not Russia, and b. It was a communist state that outlawed organised religion.
    Steve Bannon is starting at the end, and working backwards.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,347
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    I swear to God they are going to end up invading us... :(
    Are you Canadian or a Greenlander ?
    Could be Panamanian, Venezuelan, Nigerian...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,654
    Romanian government appears to be seizing assets of Lukoil, including a massive refinery.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1996205541811683344
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 328
    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    Tin foil hat a moment, this man was arrested but has absolutely no digital footprint anywhere outside of the news reports of the last 48 hours. A man who likes to take videos and share them on social media (what got him captured) would have clues all over the place.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,518

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    (Teasing hat on.)

    Ah yes, the principle of subsidiarity, as enshrined in the Maastricht Treaty of 1992.

    (Teasing hat back off again.)

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,347
    edited 2:54PM
    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    Some of you really need to be more down with the kids. Here is a recent Sabrina Carpenter pop video, entitled "Manchild" (#1 in the UK and US, and #97 in Italy):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSugSGCC12I
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853
    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    A new build near me. The back garden will have a similar drop! The site slopes badly and the original plan was to use the slope to build 'hobbit houses' part built into the slope. Someone must have pointed out, they'd never sell so they have been removed from the plan.

    Locals had been fighting developments here for decades based on the poor layout of the site and the lack of capacity at the sewage treatment plan but this was overruled by the council. Hope those at the bottom of the slope have good drainage as the runoffs here when it rains can be biblical.



    That's pretty shite. It's bad enough having landslides in places like Ventnor and Lyme Regis and that place on the Norfolk coast without having houses on too of bings. In fact this sort of thing is going to give the developers in west Edinburgh ideas about the old bings of burnt oil shale blaes west of the airport.

    I do wonder how these houses will get insurance ergo mortgages.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,049

    rkrkrk said:

    Enjoyed this bit of economic history:
    https://www.theargumentmag.com/p/this-is-how-you-get-nazis

    Tl:dr -> austerity not hyperinflation led to the rise of the Nazis/far right.

    Grrr - I've just spent 15 mins trying to access this by setting up a new limited free views account but no, nothing I try will let me read this article without a paid subscription.
    Austerity and the rise of the Nazi party have been linked for years now. Just google for various papers. I'm fairly sure we've even had it on pb.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,170
    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2025/1203/1547084-enoch-burke/

    The Enoch Burke case is interesting. He has now spent more than 500 days in prison for breaking a court order to stay away from a school (where he used to work). Clearly society can not allow people to ignore court orders, nor to allow people to disrupt schools by trespassing on them, but for how many years are the courts prepared to imprison a person for contempt of court?
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 328

    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2025/1203/1547084-enoch-burke/

    The Enoch Burke case is interesting. He has now spent more than 500 days in prison for breaking a court order to stay away from a school (where he used to work). Clearly society can not allow people to ignore court orders, nor to allow people to disrupt schools by trespassing on them, but for how many years are the courts prepared to imprison a person for contempt of court?

    The contempt of court is as much as a contempt of what has become a new religion. Fanaticism doesnt go away, it just gets transferred.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,347
    scampi25 said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    The chances of Kemi stepping down are dropping rapidly. She's already got the Tories regularly ahead of Labour. If she can start reducing the gap to Reform, she'll be kept on.
    In the last 20 polls on the Wikipedia page, the Tories are ahead of Labour on 5, tied on 3, and behind on 12.
    How about the last 10?
    Last 10, which takes us back to a 19-21 Nov poll, has...

    Tories ahead of Labour 2
    Tied 2
    Labour ahead of Tories 6
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,922
    Professor Sunak outlines to his pupils the connection between Ashes cricket numbers and Maths
    https://www.instagram.com/stories/rishisunakmp/3779342588726506662/
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 328
    Scott_xP said:

    @CountBinface

    🚨NEW POLICY ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    All Evri executives to have their Christmas presents delivered by Evri, to see how they like it.

    Love Christmas. Vote Binface.

    https://x.com/CountBinface/status/1996174393429643686?s=20

    My Evri driver is lovely, she really is.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,049
    OT the career ladder guy enters the world of Formula 1
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HviTEj4VAdc

    For those not in the know, it's basically What's My Line? up a ladder.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,211

    Good afternoon everyone!

    Can some colleague of a techie disposition help me, I wonder.
    I have a Mac desktop, an iPhone and an iPad. I can access pb on the latter, but, alas, no longer on the desktop or the iPhone.
    Anyone an idea why? The desktop message is that “Safari can’t open the page!
    The BBC and Guardian pages, for example, open normally. As does Facebook.

    Comments and advice, especially the latter, very welcome.

    I once found myself unable to access PB on a phone via 4G due to the service provider blocking the site, which I presume related to the site's gambling connections. I had to call them and ask them to enable 'adult content', after which it worked OK.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,036
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    Freeze the pension and legislate for financial penalties if the hearing finds culpability post departure would be a better option.
    Hmmm.

    I was thinking more of impalement combined with crucifixion, while waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

    But your suggestion can go on The List.
    Would be a cruel and unusual punishment given the length of time of some public inquiries, many of which the involvement of any particular PC Murdoch is only incidental.
    We are talking about specific investigations of individuals.

    “PC Savage, you are formally being investigated on suspicion of rape, murder, treason and bringing cake into the office. Your right to retire with pension is suspended until the end of this investigation.”
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,770
    Sandpit said:

    Romanian government appears to be seizing assets of Lukoil, including a massive refinery.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1996205541811683344

    They won't be the last...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,948

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    Freeze the pension and legislate for financial penalties if the hearing finds culpability post departure would be a better option.
    Hmmm.

    I was thinking more of impalement combined with crucifixion, while waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

    But your suggestion can go on The List.
    Would be a cruel and unusual punishment given the length of time of some public inquiries, many of which the involvement of any particular PC Murdoch is only incidental.
    We are talking about specific investigations of individuals.

    “PC Savage, you are formally being investigated on suspicion of rape, murder, treason and bringing cake into the office. Your right to retire with pension is suspended until the end of this investigation.”
    In finance, resignation did not end an investigation. Banks are under an obligation to report such matters to the regulator.

    There is no reason why the same approach cannot be adopted in other sectors.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,770

    isam said:

    Six months ago, Kemi was as unpopular as Sir Keir


    Will she get crossover with Nigel? What will that mean?
    She keeps her job another 12 months.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    Freeze the pension and legislate for financial penalties if the hearing finds culpability post departure would be a better option.
    Hmmm.

    I was thinking more of impalement combined with crucifixion, while waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

    But your suggestion can go on The List.
    Would be a cruel and unusual punishment given the length of time of some public inquiries, many of which the involvement of any particular PC Murdoch is only incidental.
    We are talking about specific investigations of individuals.

    “PC Savage, you are formally being investigated on suspicion of rape, murder, treason and bringing cake into the office. Your right to retire with pension is suspended until the end of this investigation.”
    OK, was thinking in terms of inquiry = Hillsborough sort of thing. Perhaps a better wording is disciplinary investigation? And there are issues about freezing retirement when the situation requires an immediate dismissal. Unless you explicitly keep the option of sacking them separately from retirement?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,770

    On Topic

    A bit like Lammys plans for justice.

    IE The Jury's out on that one

    ...and is never coming back.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,806
    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    One of The Carpenters presumably?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853

    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    Tin foil hat a moment, this man was arrested but has absolutely no digital footprint anywhere outside of the news reports of the last 48 hours. A man who likes to take videos and share them on social media (what got him captured) would have clues all over the place.
    Happy news, you can save the hat for the turkey. He didn't share the ones that got him caught on social media acc to this. (And people do use different names obvs anyway.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/paedophile-vincent-chan-admits-sexually-assaulting-toddlers-at-london-nursery

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,025
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The end of the sentence left hanging, but pretty obviously “…not Britain”.

    Bizarre though when a. The Soviet Union was the ally, not Russia, and b. It was a communist state that outlawed organised religion.
    Steve Bannon is starting at the end, and working backwards.
    Russia is in fact, one of the most non-religious countries in the world.

    But still, people like Bannon and Vance have persuaded themselves that it is The Third Rome, and Putin is the defender of White Christiaan civilisation, and slayer of homoxexuals.

    That's one brand of idiocy.

    The other brand of idiocy is to see Russia as the spiritual heir to the Soviet Union, and Putin as fighting on behalf of the Global South.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,310

    isam said:

    Six months ago, Kemi was as unpopular as Sir Keir


    Will she get crossover with Nigel? What will that mean?
    She keeps her job another 12 months.
    It's all about next May isn't it? That's the big bump in the road.

    If she can hold back Reform a bit better than last May, and pick up control of some London councils from Labour (which our metropolitan media will likely focus on), then should survive OK.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    One of The Carpenters presumably?
    Apparently not, which is a shame because she'd appear to be a chippie off the old block.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853
    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    A new build near me. The back garden will have a similar drop! The site slopes badly and the original plan was to use the slope to build 'hobbit houses' part built into the slope. Someone must have pointed out, they'd never sell so they have been removed from the plan.

    Locals had been fighting developments here for decades based on the poor layout of the site and the lack of capacity at the sewage treatment plan but this was overruled by the council. Hope those at the bottom of the slope have good drainage as the runoffs here when it rains can be biblical.



    That's pretty shite. It's bad enough having landslides in places like Ventnor and Lyme Regis and that place on the Norfolk coast without having houses on too of bings. In fact this sort of thing is going to give the developers in west Edinburgh ideas about the old bings of burnt oil shale blaes west of the airport.

    I do wonder how these houses will get insurance ergo mortgages.
    Edit: may be unfair, it could be solid freestone strata for all I know under that landscaped slope. But how does a buyer know?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,986
    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    A new build near me. The back garden will have a similar drop! The site slopes badly and the original plan was to use the slope to build 'hobbit houses' part built into the slope. Someone must have pointed out, they'd never sell so they have been removed from the plan.

    Locals had been fighting developments here for decades based on the poor layout of the site and the lack of capacity at the sewage treatment plan but this was overruled by the council. Hope those at the bottom of the slope have good drainage as the runoffs here when it rains can be biblical.



    Looks like an ideal home and garden for a slopestyle skier or boarder.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203
    edited 3:27PM

    Always said HSBC are a joke of an institution who have, inter alia, been the bankers for the IRGC, drug dealers, and other criminals.

    HSBC snubs George Osborne to name ex-KPMG partner as chairman

    Former chancellor misses out as the bank hands the reins to interim chair Brendan Nelson


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/12/03/hsbc-snubs-george-osborne-appoint-ex-kpmg-partner-chairman/

    Your heart goes out to poor old Austerity George.

    If he needs help signing on to Universal Credit tell him to speak to his local Citizens Advice.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,473
    edited 3:33PM
    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    A new build near me. The back garden will have a similar drop! The site slopes badly and the original plan was to use the slope to build 'hobbit houses' part built into the slope. Someone must have pointed out, they'd never sell so they have been removed from the plan.

    Locals had been fighting developments here for decades based on the poor layout of the site and the lack of capacity at the sewage treatment plan but this was overruled by the council. Hope those at the bottom of the slope have good drainage as the runoffs here when it rains can be biblical.



    That's pretty shite. It's bad enough having landslides in places like Ventnor and Lyme Regis and that place on the Norfolk coast without having houses on too of bings. In fact this sort of thing is going to give the developers in west Edinburgh ideas about the old bings of burnt oil shale blaes west of the airport.

    I do wonder how these houses will get insurance ergo mortgages.
    So far, insurers seem more worried about my proximity to the sea - despite my being high enough above sea level, while being only 250 metres away from the beach, that most of London would be underwater before the sea is lapping at my doorstep. That the town is slowly collapsing down the hillside, every time we get a wet winter, hasn't, as yet, come to their attention.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,112

    Why do they draw the Rugby World Cup so early? It's nearly two years away, the team rankings could be very different in October 2027 to the seedings used for the draw.

    Apparently, it’s to allow supporters plenty of time to book travel and accommodation. If so, it’s an excellent idea.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,091
    Hmmm. Lancashire's decapitated bus.

    Several children have been hurt after the roof of a school double-decker bus was ripped off when it hit a low bridge.

    Among the injured was an eight-year-old boy who has been taken to hospital with a "non-serious" head injury following the crash on Spendmore Lane, Coppull, Lancashire, at about 12:30 GMT.

    The bus was carrying some pupils from Wood Fold Primary School, in Standish, Wigan, the BBC understands. The school declined to comment.


    How do these happen? Do buses not go on standard routes, regularly, with qualified drivers? Or was this an exception? And do satellite systems not have warnings?

  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,091

    Always said HSBC are a joke of an institution who have, inter alia, been the bankers for the IRGC, drug dealers, and other criminals.

    HSBC snubs George Osborne to name ex-KPMG partner as chairman

    Former chancellor misses out as the bank hands the reins to interim chair Brendan Nelson


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/12/03/hsbc-snubs-george-osborne-appoint-ex-kpmg-partner-chairman/

    Your heart goes out to poor old Austerity George.

    If he needs help signing on to Universal Credit tell him to speak to his local Citizens Advice.
    He has his private Vineyard in his garden to console him. Don't weep too much.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,112

    Scott_xP said:

    @CountBinface

    🚨NEW POLICY ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    All Evri executives to have their Christmas presents delivered by Evri, to see how they like it.

    Love Christmas. Vote Binface.

    https://x.com/CountBinface/status/1996174393429643686?s=20

    My Evri driver is lovely, she really is.
    So is ours. It’s Yodel and DPD deliveries we dread.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,112

    Sandpit said:

    Romanian government appears to be seizing assets of Lukoil, including a massive refinery.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1996205541811683344

    They won't be the last...
    No, the USA will.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,145
    edited 3:44PM
    Get the popcorn ready,

    Nigel Farage aide fronted Tony Bloom’s £600m betting syndicate, court told

    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/brighton-tony-bloom-gambling-nigel-farage-george-cottrell-x568ssgm2

    The use of whales / beards to get big money bets on isnt uncommon in this world, but leads to you doing business with lots of interesting folk and plenry of crazy tales.

    Haralabos Voulgaris the famed basketball bettor has occasionally given a glimpse behind the curtain and its mental.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,036
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    Freeze the pension and legislate for financial penalties if the hearing finds culpability post departure would be a better option.
    Hmmm.

    I was thinking more of impalement combined with crucifixion, while waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

    But your suggestion can go on The List.
    Would be a cruel and unusual punishment given the length of time of some public inquiries, many of which the involvement of any particular PC Murdoch is only incidental.
    We are talking about specific investigations of individuals.

    “PC Savage, you are formally being investigated on suspicion of rape, murder, treason and bringing cake into the office. Your right to retire with pension is suspended until the end of this investigation.”
    OK, was thinking in terms of inquiry = Hillsborough sort of thing. Perhaps a better wording is disciplinary investigation? And there are issues about freezing retirement when the situation requires an immediate dismissal. Unless you explicitly keep the option of sacking them separately from retirement?
    What’s wrong with walling them up in a dungeon until the end of the investigation?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,334

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    A new build near me. The back garden will have a similar drop! The site slopes badly and the original plan was to use the slope to build 'hobbit houses' part built into the slope. Someone must have pointed out, they'd never sell so they have been removed from the plan.

    Locals had been fighting developments here for decades based on the poor layout of the site and the lack of capacity at the sewage treatment plan but this was overruled by the council. Hope those at the bottom of the slope have good drainage as the runoffs here when it rains can be biblical.



    Looks like an ideal home and garden for a slopestyle skier or boarder.
    kids will love it in the winter
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203

    Why do they draw the Rugby World Cup so early? It's nearly two years away, the team rankings could be very different in October 2027 to the seedings used for the draw.

    Apparently, it’s to allow supporters plenty of time to book travel and accommodation. If so, it’s an excellent idea.
    Sounds like BS to me - the fixture list is not announced until February... and no one can be sure who will be in any of the knockout games until midway through the actual competition itself.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203
    edited 3:47PM
    malcolmg said:

    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    A new build near me. The back garden will have a similar drop! The site slopes badly and the original plan was to use the slope to build 'hobbit houses' part built into the slope. Someone must have pointed out, they'd never sell so they have been removed from the plan.

    Locals had been fighting developments here for decades based on the poor layout of the site and the lack of capacity at the sewage treatment plan but this was overruled by the council. Hope those at the bottom of the slope have good drainage as the runoffs here when it rains can be biblical.



    Looks like an ideal home and garden for a slopestyle skier or boarder.
    kids will love it in the winter
    Depends where it is. We've had five winters in a row without lying snow here in Dorset.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,391
    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    Really? I am a fan.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,853
    MattW said:

    Hmmm. Lancashire's decapitated bus.

    Several children have been hurt after the roof of a school double-decker bus was ripped off when it hit a low bridge.

    Among the injured was an eight-year-old boy who has been taken to hospital with a "non-serious" head injury following the crash on Spendmore Lane, Coppull, Lancashire, at about 12:30 GMT.

    The bus was carrying some pupils from Wood Fold Primary School, in Standish, Wigan, the BBC understands. The school declined to comment.


    How do these happen? Do buses not go on standard routes, regularly, with qualified drivers? Or was this an exception? And do satellite systems not have warnings?

    No mention of the many, many rail travellers whose day was also wrecked by this until the bridges could be checked and hopefully confirmed as undamaged. And the children show why the obvious Malmesburyesque solution of spiked rollers at clearance height 40m in advance is not acceptable.

    National Rail listed the routes affected by "a vehicle striking a bridge between Preston and Wigan North Western" which is presumably, but not certainly, this incident:

    Avanti West Coast between Edinburgh / Glasgow Central and London Euston

    Northern between Corkickle and Manchester Airport, and between Blackpool North / Wigan North Western and Liverpool Lime Street

    TransPennine Express between Glasgow Central and Liverpool Lime Street

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/our-work/looking-after-the-railway/bridges-tunnels-and-viaducts/the-risk-of-bridge-strikes/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203
    edited 3:50PM

    Scott_xP said:

    @CountBinface

    🚨NEW POLICY ANNOUNCEMENT🚨

    All Evri executives to have their Christmas presents delivered by Evri, to see how they like it.

    Love Christmas. Vote Binface.

    https://x.com/CountBinface/status/1996174393429643686?s=20

    My Evri driver is lovely, she really is.
    So is ours. It’s Yodel and DPD deliveries we dread.
    I'm suggesting to our local WhatApp group that we stop texting when we are missing an Evri delivery or find a mis-posted one. It would save a lot of messages if we just posted when Evri managed to deliver a parcel correctly.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,036
    MattW said:

    Hmmm. Lancashire's decapitated bus.

    Several children have been hurt after the roof of a school double-decker bus was ripped off when it hit a low bridge.

    Among the injured was an eight-year-old boy who has been taken to hospital with a "non-serious" head injury following the crash on Spendmore Lane, Coppull, Lancashire, at about 12:30 GMT.

    The bus was carrying some pupils from Wood Fold Primary School, in Standish, Wigan, the BBC understands. The school declined to comment.


    How do these happen? Do buses not go on standard routes, regularly, with qualified drivers? Or was this an exception? And do satellite systems not have warnings?

    Diversion due to roadworks, I’ll bet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,145
    Looks Phoebe and Rupert Harpington Symthes are back with a rebrand of Just Stop Youth Demanding to go Extinct...

    https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1996226329369305264?s=20
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,978

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. Lancashire's decapitated bus.

    Several children have been hurt after the roof of a school double-decker bus was ripped off when it hit a low bridge.

    Among the injured was an eight-year-old boy who has been taken to hospital with a "non-serious" head injury following the crash on Spendmore Lane, Coppull, Lancashire, at about 12:30 GMT.

    The bus was carrying some pupils from Wood Fold Primary School, in Standish, Wigan, the BBC understands. The school declined to comment.


    How do these happen? Do buses not go on standard routes, regularly, with qualified drivers? Or was this an exception? And do satellite systems not have warnings?

    Diversion due to roadworks, I’ll bet.
    Surely one requirement of a competent driver is understanding the height, width, length and weight of their vehicle?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,036
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. Lancashire's decapitated bus.

    Several children have been hurt after the roof of a school double-decker bus was ripped off when it hit a low bridge.

    Among the injured was an eight-year-old boy who has been taken to hospital with a "non-serious" head injury following the crash on Spendmore Lane, Coppull, Lancashire, at about 12:30 GMT.

    The bus was carrying some pupils from Wood Fold Primary School, in Standish, Wigan, the BBC understands. The school declined to comment.


    How do these happen? Do buses not go on standard routes, regularly, with qualified drivers? Or was this an exception? And do satellite systems not have warnings?

    No mention of the many, many rail travellers whose day was also wrecked by this until the bridges could be checked and hopefully confirmed as undamaged. And the children show why the obvious Malmesburyesque solution of spiked rollers at clearance height 40m in advance is not acceptable.

    National Rail listed the routes affected by "a vehicle striking a bridge between Preston and Wigan North Western" which is presumably, but not certainly, this incident:

    Avanti West Coast between Edinburgh / Glasgow Central and London Euston

    Northern between Corkickle and Manchester Airport, and between Blackpool North / Wigan North Western and Liverpool Lime Street

    TransPennine Express between Glasgow Central and Liverpool Lime Street

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/our-work/looking-after-the-railway/bridges-tunnels-and-viaducts/the-risk-of-bridge-strikes/
    “ Malmesburyesque solution of spiked rollers at clearance height 40m in advance is not acceptable.”

    A vile slur.

    My solution would be linear shaped charge (Casaba-Howitzer?) on a height gate 40m in advance of the bridge.

    Cut the bus to size on the fly.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,203
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    Isn't this just Farage doing what he always does? I think he enjoys the limelight but would run a mile from political office.

    It’s always easier to be in permanent opposition, able to suggest solutions and ideas that never have to be actually implemented.

    Unfortunately the current government appears to have arrived with no ideas, and the previous government had run out of them.
    As many of their newly elected councillors running an administration, they’ll be discovering that governing is hard hard hard. A series of spinning plates full of shit, surrounded by electric fans.
    I don't think incompetence in office will hit Reform hard enough. A recent example:

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/reform-durham-county-council-darren-grimes-400775/

    That situation would have applied whoever ran the county. There is a consultation on the budget tomorrow and the details have been published on the council site. Reform have made some savings but the demands on councils and budgets across the board are going up. That’s not incompetence it’s a broken funding model for local govt.
    Maybe. But it still leaves Reform heading up the shit-sandwich buffet...

    What is Reform's policy for mending the broken funding model for local government? 3 words: Close. Things. Down.
    Nope

    It’s the same as any other local
    Govt

    More.govt.money
    Not quite in Durham you also have lower council tax grants so the poorest now have to find more money to pay a council tax bill they previously didn’t need to pay
    Quite right too. They should contribute something.

    Some perspective required

    Durham previously let the ‘poorest’ have a 100% rebate on their council tax. This will now be 90%. Far more generous than most other councils including Labour ones.
    Feckin unbelievable, why would anyone on low wages bother working , far better to lie in your kip and get showered with benefits and all tax free. It is mental.
    Workers on low wages also qualify for CT rebates. Oh, and pensioners on Pension Credit (in fact they get 100% CT rebate).

    But I doubt you want to hear that.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,776
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    For full transparency. my little essay above is what might be described as a Centrist Dad rehashing of Murray Bookchin's Libertarian Municipalism. Not an original thought.
    All our thoughts are rehashed to a greater or lesser extent. The fact that you are advocating it is good enough for me.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,859
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    I have to admit I was previously unaware of the existence of Sabrina Carpenter.

    this video is evil and disgusting. Do not ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.
    3:25 PM · Dec 2, 2025
    76.2M Views

    https://x.com/SabrinaAnnLynn/status/1995876972405420114

    One of The Carpenters presumably?
    The secret love child of George Harrison and Karen Carpenter I believe, she’s a Carpenter-Beatle.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,403
    edited 4:01PM

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    Isn't this just Farage doing what he always does? I think he enjoys the limelight but would run a mile from political office.

    It’s always easier to be in permanent opposition, able to suggest solutions and ideas that never have to be actually implemented.

    Unfortunately the current government appears to have arrived with no ideas, and the previous government had run out of them.
    As many of their newly elected councillors running an administration, they’ll be discovering that governing is hard hard hard. A series of spinning plates full of shit, surrounded by electric fans.
    I don't think incompetence in office will hit Reform hard enough. A recent example:

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/reform-durham-county-council-darren-grimes-400775/

    That situation would have applied whoever ran the county. There is a consultation on the budget tomorrow and the details have been published on the council site. Reform have made some savings but the demands on councils and budgets across the board are going up. That’s not incompetence it’s a broken funding model for local govt.
    Maybe. But it still leaves Reform heading up the shit-sandwich buffet...

    What is Reform's policy for mending the broken funding model for local government? 3 words: Close. Things. Down.
    Nope

    It’s the same as any other local
    Govt

    More.govt.money
    Not quite in Durham you also have lower council tax grants so the poorest now have to find more money to pay a council tax bill they previously didn’t need to pay
    Quite right too. They should contribute something.

    Some perspective required

    Durham previously let the ‘poorest’ have a 100% rebate on their council tax. This will now be 90%. Far more generous than most other councils including Labour ones.
    Feckin unbelievable, why would anyone on low wages bother working , far better to lie in your kip and get showered with benefits and all tax free. It is mental.
    Workers on low wages also qualify for CT rebates. Oh, and pensioners on Pension Credit (in fact they get 100% CT rebate).

    But I doubt you want to hear that.
    Do the CT rebates have a taper ?

    Or there is moral hazard for people "just above" thresholds. I know universal credit has tapers in place which alleviate this somewhat but all or nothing benefits for instance prescriptions can cause this...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,072

    NEW THREAD

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